FBS School to be Forced into FCS?

[TexasTerror]

Does the Great West want to add New Mexico State? They almost lost to Arkansas-Pine Bluff this past year or was it the year before?

Regardless, I didn't think we would ever this situation play out. Is it really possible that the NCAA would stick to their guns and force a school out of FBS and into FCS?

Thoughts? Please, let's keep this as an FCS discussion as much as possible instead of hating on FBS schools. Would rather have feedback on the ramifications for FCS if schools do get sent down, etc...

Ultimately, this seems to be a non-issue, but it does make a good discussion...
------------------
If attendance falters, NMSU's 1A status will be put on hold, WAC status called into question (7:30 p.m.)
By Teddy Feinberg/Sun-News Sports Editor
Article Launched: 06/07/2008 07:36:17 PM MDT

LAS CRUCES — Western Athletic Conference Commissioner Karl Benson said that if New Mexico State University fails to live up to the football attendance standards set by the NCAA, they will be dropped from Division 1A competition and possibly the WAC.

If things get to that point, Benson said that NMSU would be re-instituted back into 1A play when the school proved it could live up to NCAA standards and maintain its attendance average above 15,000 per season.

"They would be out of 1A, that is correct," Benson said. "It would not affect any of the other sports at New Mexico State. They would remain at the 1A level."

The program's status in WAC would be up in the air.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/sports/ci_9516345

[APPALACHIANstate]

That would be better for them.

[813Jag]

They've haven'ts been successful historically and it doesn't look like Hal Mumme will get it done there. If the NCAA has an attendance rule, they might as well enforce it. If this really happens, it will only allow a few schools to move up to FBS and stay there. Anybody thinking of moving better have their ducks in a row. xreadx

[Mouse]

hypothetical

what would happens to their players if they were forced to move down to FCS?

[813Jag]

Here's a thread (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=242#s=242&f=2377&t=2557889) on the New Mexico State board.

[BearsCountry]

When pigs fly, NCAA wont enforce it.

[Dane96]

First...the NCAA wont enforce it.

Second...the WAC won't do anything.

Third....since 1999 NMSU has been over the 15,000 mark. Some seasons less...some more...but right around and over it on average. Also...they were only 600 below last year.

[DFW HOYA]

NM State is 111th in attendance--there are eight other schools below them and none of them is in peril, either.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2007/Internet/attendance/IA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

[Ronbo]

Well if I understand the penalties, after next season they get a warning. Then if they fail for two more seasons after the warning then they lose their I-A designation for football.

So they have 3 years, 2008, 2009, and 2010 to get from 14,400 to 15,000. That would be easy to do, give away a couple thousand tickets a game.

[TexasTerror]

So they have 3 years, 2008, 2009, and 2010 to get from 14,400 to 15,000. That would be easy to do, give away a couple thousand tickets a game.

Can't give away tickets. The NCAA wants to know how many tickets were bought. Some programs (see FIU and FAU, according to the NMST board) apparently give you $500 worth of tickets, if you donate $500 to the program, so you are in essence buying the tickets, whether you use them or not.

[Ronbo]

They could easily do a cheap family package for low income families. Say a low income family package of 4 seats in the endzones for a total package price of $120 for the season.

[I Bleed Purple]

I see (and practically knew) beforehand that Utah State is under 15k. Problem is, they'd rather drop football than move to FCS. They think beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're a much, much, much higher profile program than Weber. They could never "drop down" to our level.

[BearsCountry]

New Mexico State has New Mexico, Fresno St and Boise State on the home schedule this year. I think that will bump the home attendance.

[IndianaAppMan]

Can't give away tickets. The NCAA wants to know how many tickets were bought. Some programs (see FIU and FAU, according to the NMST board) apparently give you $500 worth of tickets, if you donate $500 to the program, so you are in essence buying the tickets, whether you use them or not.

They better not be getting a tax write-off for that "donation," then. Any donation is supposed to lack anything in return (like tickets) other than the satisfaction of helping.

[IndianaAppMan]

I don't understand what is so unacceptable about moving from FBS to FCS. It's not like it changes Division for any other sport, and doesn't necessarily even change the conference. Heck, Georgetown's basketball program hasn't hurt because its football team is FCS. For those teams in the bottom rung of attendance, it seems clear there's not much interest in their FBS team anyway, and most of them don't know how to win.

Case in point. In 1998, South Carolina won its first game of the season in and lost its last ten. The next year, they went 0-11. It was sad. So, for the first game of 2000, they broke their losing streak against none other than NEW MEXICO STATE. Evidently, NMSU still stinks. That team might actually increase ticket sales in the FCS because the might start winning on a regular basis for the first time in any alum's memory.

It's got to be very costly for Kent State or Idaho, for instance, to be FBS, too. Expenses are much higher in FBS. Normally those costs are offset, at least somewhat, by revenue, hence the minimum ticket sales requirement so schools don't run themselves into the ground in support of athletics. 22 more scholarships are required. They pay a premium for FBS coaching salaries (with poor results, mind you). Why couldn't Idaho get excited about renewing the Montana rivalry or Kent State get excited about going up against Jim Tressel's old team?

[BearsCountry]

I don't understand what is so unacceptable about moving from FBS to FCS.

It would be a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE PR hit.

[IndianaAppMan]

It would be a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE PR hit.

Really? How much "PR" is there really between NMSU and the general public. NMSU is never mentioned by any major media outlets. Nor is any other school towards the bottom of the list, except when listed under ESPN's "Bottom Ten." I live in Indiana and almost NEVER hear anything about Ball State.

If it wasn't for the shootings in 60's, I'd bet more people have heard of Grand Valley State than Kent State.

I would think that deciding to step over to FCS to try a shot at winning for the first time in forever would be a positive.

[Mountaineer]

It would be a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE PR hit.

Exactly. Quite few schools on the FBS level have no business being there. They know it and college football fans know it. Think it'll take anything less than lawsuit to get them back to FCS?

We poke fun at the terrible FBS teams and conferences all the time, but I've never seen one wanting to drop back down to our level.

[Mountaineer]

I would think that deciding to step over to FCS to try a shot at winning for the first time in forever would be a positive.

There'd be 300+ teams at the FCS level is that was the case. xlolx

It's just not so.

[txphi592]

I don't understand what is so unacceptable about moving from FBS to FCS.

Because it's a downgrade. Don't kid yourself.

[IndianaAppMan]

I see (and practically knew) beforehand that Utah State is under 15k. Problem is, they'd rather drop football than move to FCS. They think beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're a much, much, much higher profile program than Weber. They could never "drop down" to our level.

Whoever doesn't want them to "drop down" is obviously small in number. Under 15,000? I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic for an FBS school. If they want to be FBS so badly, well, let their money (ticket sales) do the talking. Otherwise, yeah, they either SHOULD drop football so they don't drive themselves into horrendous debt or they should give the FCS a try.

I question programs who contend that they're "higher profile" but don't back it up. UNC, ECU, NCSU, Wake, Florida State, and Georgia Tech each had the chance to schedule App State, but instead went for weaker FCS teams or bottom-feeder FBS teams. I imagine that Utah State would balk at the idea of scheduling Weber State--out of fear.

[IndianaAppMan]

Because it's a downgrade. Don't kid yourself.

I'm not kidding myself. But if things are so bad for Kent State in the FBS that they can't even get 10,000 fans a game, maybe they do need to downgrade. Sometimes that's what has to happen when things are that rough.

Let's say you lived in a big, nice house in a big, nice neighborhood for a long time. There's a problem, though. You're spending so much money on your mortgage just trying to make ends meet, you can't save any money for you kids' college, you're going into credit card debt, you're putting a strain on your marriage, you can't even afford a vacation. Wouldn't downsizing to a smaller house in a more modest neighborhood be the smartest thing to do? It might make the family grumble for a while. It wouldn't be easy for you, either. You're giving up something you really treasured, but you're able to do the things you've wanted to do for such a long time.

It seems like "downsizing" would at least open the door towards winning, for once, and it might bring fans back. Ask Montana fans, Georgia Southern fans, or App State fans if winning will help boost attendance & donations.

[Appinator]

I would think that the biggest issue would be which scholarships they would take away. It wouldn't be fair for them to compete at our level with a squad that has 20+ extra scholarships, but you couldn't yank away a kid's ticket to college because the AD has failed.

[IndianaAppMan]

There'd be 300+ teams at the FCS level is that was the case. xlolx

It's just not so.

Huh? The vast majority of FBS teams have no need to move over. Few teams have atrocious, U at Buffalo type records year-in, year-out.

[IndianaAppMan]

I would think that the biggest issue would be which scholarships they would take away. It wouldn't be fair for them to compete at our level with a squad that has 20+ extra scholarships, but you couldn't yank away a kid's ticket to college because the AD has failed.

I think there's a process for that. Scholarships for current players would be honored, as would those pledged to the incoming freshmen. After that, though, scholarships would just not be replaced for the next year's class (unless more than 22 would graduate). Maybe there'd be a transition year, like what Western Kentucky is doing, except in reverse. Heck, that makes me think of another things: it would ease up the recruiting burden a bit, at least for one season. The coaches could then focus just on playing.

[Mountaineer]

Huh? The vast majority of FBS teams have no need to move over. Few teams have atrocious, U at Buffalo type records year-in, year-out.

If teams thought "downgrading" their football program to compete for the FCS championship was worth it more would do so. No team that's moved to the FBS level has ever dropped back down. Why is that? It's more than just football.

I like the FCS and currently think it's a good thing for ASU. Although I don't think the current improvements taking place all over campus, including athletic facilities, are being done with an eye for keeping ASU at the I-AA level.

[IndianaAppMan]

If teams thought "downgrading" their football program to compete for the FCS championship was worth it more would do so. No team that's moved to the FBS level has ever dropped back down. Why is that? It's more than just football.

I like the FCS and currently think it's a good thing for ASU. Although I don't think the current improvements taking place all over campus, including athletic facilities, are being done with an eye for keeping ASU at the I-AA level.

I agree with everything you said. First, most schools wouldn't want to move because the FCS is lower profile. It's rarely on TV, and when it is, it's usually some obscure regional network. Second, I'm only talking about the schools that are struggling the very most at the ticket gate. Not Marshall. Not ECU. Not Troy. Not even Middle Tennessee. They've either had good winning seasons or they're improving, and their attendance isn't terrible.

Actually, Marshall did drop down to FCS in the early 80's, which was after D-1A and D-1AA split. I'd say that worked well for them. I'd say it was the best move the school ever made, as it boosted that school's morale more than anything else could have, especially after their plane crash in the 70's.

I think it's foolish for schools like NMSU to wallow in decade after decade of horrible football when there is an alternative, especially when there's so little interest in the team. As much as they stink, at least Duke keeps some fans coming.

As for ASU, I try to imagine if the best case scenario actually did happen if they moved to the FBS. Let's say ASU wins the proverbial NCAA lottery and got into the Big East and was actually a contender. Even then, it's not all good news. How the heck is Boone going to handle 50,000 fans? Boone is physically tiny as it is. There's just not enough hotel rooms, and there's almost nowhere to put them. Maybe it would be Lenoir & Wilkesboro could put some hotels up, but the traffic would be a nightmare. What about an airport? Would UConn really be willing to fly to Charlotte, and rent a bus, and drive two hours through nightmarish fan traffic? Besides, I would miss playing Furman & our SoCon rivals.

These facilities may truly be prep for FBS, but I'm glad ASU is taking its time.

[Hansel]

glad they will stay "1A" in other sports xwhistlex

[Mountaineer]

I agree with everything you said. First, most schools wouldn't want to move because the FCS is (perceived as) lower profile.

This. That's all that needs to said. It doesn't matter how much money is being bled from the athletic department, doesn't matter that some teams haven't had a winning season Reagan was president, etc.

It's that perception.

[IndianaAppMan]

ARMY

Yeah right. The United States military has too much pride to allow that ever to happen.

[BearsCountry]

If winning national championships was the main reason to be in a division, then the majority of us better drop down to D2 then for all sports.

[IndianaAppMan]

If winning national championships was the main reason to be in a division, then the majority of us better drop down to D2 then for all sports.

I think people are missing the point. I'm not suggesting that just any FBS should move to FCS. Only the very bottom in attendance? Why? Because winning (in the FCS or anywhere) for the first time since Reagan might help the schools in the long run. They're kidding themselves if they think that being FBS is good for them. They're losing tons of money. It gives them no more advantage for their other sports (Again, G'town & Villanova basketball aren't hurt by lacking FBS football.) It gives them the stigma of "loser." In the FCS, they'd have an excellent shot at being a winner, and they could even return to FBS after 10-15 years (just like Marshall did) and be stronger and ready to contend.

App State has national recognition as a winner. Just about every CFB analyst would acknowledge that App State is, at the least, as good as the bottom 10% of FBS. Money pours into Appalachian. Ticket sales break records. App State and the upper echelon of FCS is much better on the field, and better off financially, and more nationally respected than these bottom teams. Why wouldn't any of those teams want that?

[IndianaAppMan]

I'll use Temple as an example. If their program manages to pile up some wins and go to a bowl game thanks to a MAC schedule, a clear downgrade from their former Big East, wouldn't that be better than being the worst team in all of the BCS conferences? The same goes for the very bottom of the FCS. Again, I'm not talking about teams that draw good attendance, just perpetual losers that can't get people to come.

[TheBisonator]

If winning national championships was the main reason to be in a division, then the majority of us better drop down to D2 then for all sports.

NDSU won 20 national championships in half a dozen different sports in D2. If we wanted more, we would've stayed. But like everyone said, it's about more than trophies.

[IndianaAppMan]

NDSU won 20 national championships in D2. If we wanted more, we would've stayed. But like everyone said, it's about more than trophies.

Is anyone even reading what I've said?

[IndianaAppMan]

NDSU won 20 national championships in half a dozen different sports in D2. If we wanted more, we would've stayed. But like everyone said, it's about more than trophies.

The difference is that in Division 1, you don't suck. You might not win as many national titles. You might not win any, but you're not the crappiest excuse for a Division 1 program, either. (In fact, you've made the transition quite smoothly.)

These other programs are absolutely atrocious. They're hurting themselves by being FBS. I'm not suggesting they move to the FCS to win 20 (supposedly) less significant national titles. I'm suggesting they move to boost attendance and to be competitive for a change, and if they do very well like App has, their national recognition will surpass what they currently have.

[I Bleed Purple]

These schools don't consider themselves to be in FBS. They consider themselves to be FBS colleges. Huge difference. They're FBS, so moving down isn't an option.

Besides, not being competitive is not due to being in FBS. Any school can compete and win if handled right. The Idaho vs. Boise State argument.

[IndianaAppMan]

These schools don't consider themselves to be in FBS. They consider themselves to be FBS colleges. Huge difference. They're FBS, so moving down isn't an option.

Besides, not being competitive is not due to being in FBS. Any school can compete and win if handled right. The Idaho vs. Boise State argument.

You're probably right about the "FBS colleges" point. What's stupid in that line of thinking is that the entire Ivy League, the entire Patriot League, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Mercer, Emory, Cal Tech, MIT, etc. etc. etc. are fantastic research institutions and/or among the finest liberal arts colleges in the country. I dare say that any of those schools is far more famous, richer, and more respected than Kent State, NMSU, or Utah State.

Any school can compete and win if handled right? That's debatable. Idaho's at a huge disadvantage because they're the obsure school in the middle of nowhere not only in Boise State's shadow but in a Pac-10's school's (Washington State) as well. Boise State, on the other hand, is in a rapidly growing metro area in the state's largest area. Idaho has it rough.

Anything's possible, but it's extremely difficult to overcome a culture of losing. Look at pro sports. The Cardinals are bad generation after generation whether there's good talent & coaching or not.

[IndianaAppMan]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying YOUR line of thinking was stupid. I was saying that the colleges' line of thinking is.

[BearsCountry]

Another thing is some schools are not football schools. Period. They are in FBS in order to get a leg up for other sports and improve their conference affilation. Take Florida Atlantic for example - they were in the Atlantic Sun, I think they improved a little bit by going to the Sun Belt. Buffalo, who gets bashed all the time, was in the Mid-Con they are in the MAC now. A little bit of a difference I think so. Idaho, I would say that the WAC is a better conference than Big Sky. Troy, the vagabound who was in the Mid-Con and Atlantic Sun and even played football in the Southland, are better off in the Sun Belt. Middle Tennesse from the OVC to the Sun Belt, better off. There is a lot of factors to look at besides the win and loss column.

[IndianaAppMan]

Another thing is some schools are not football schools. Period. They are in FBS in order to get a leg up for other sports and improve their conference affilation. Take Florida Atlantic for example - they were in the Atlantic Sun, I think they improved a little bit by going to the Sun Belt. Buffalo, who gets bashed all the time, was in the Mid-Con they are in the MAC now. A little bit of a difference I think so. Idaho, I would say that the WAC is a better conference than Big Sky. Troy, the vagabound who was in the Mid-Con and Atlantic Sun and even played football in the Southland, are better off in the Sun Belt. Middle Tennesse from the OVC to the Sun Belt, better off. There is a lot of factors to look at besides the win and loss column.

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. None of those schools should move down. They're new at this FBS thing and are on the way up.

Again, I'm talking about schools with the worst attendance who also have terrible records decade after decade. Throw in the towel FINALLY and go FCS.

Besides, I don't know what would stop, for instance, New Mexico State from being Big Sky in football only (the way that G'town is in the Patriot League in football only) and be in the WAC for all other sports.

[BearsCountry]

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. None of those schools should move down. They're new at this FBS thing and are on the way up.

Again, I'm talking about schools with the worst attendance who also have terrible records decade after decade. Throw in the towel FINALLY and go FCS.

Besides, I don't know what would stop, for instance, New Mexico State from being Big Sky in football only (the way that G'town is in the Patriot League in football only) and be in the WAC for all other sports.

Conference by-laws for one thing. History and rivals are another thing - going to FCS would cause New Mexico State not to play UTEP and New Mexico anymore. Plus they have never been in FCS.

[I Bleed Purple]

You MUST participate in Men's BB, Woman's BB, Football and one other sport I don't remember to participate in any Big Sky league. An example of those bylaws BearsCountry mentioned.

He's also right in other sports. While USU is a horrific basketball program, they're an outstanding basketball program. WAC is a better conference for BB than the Big Sky is.

[IndianaAppMan]

While USU is a horrific basketball program, they're an outstanding basketball program.

:( Doo hhhwat?

Those conference by-laws are something I hadn't considered, but I can't help but wonder if exceptions could be made an entire athletic department wouldn't have to shift just for football.

Great points about the bylaws and rivalries.

[I Bleed Purple]

:( Doo hhhwat?

Those conference by-laws are something I hadn't considered, but I can't help but wonder if exceptions could be made an entire athletic department wouldn't have to shift just for football.

Great points about the bylaws and rivalries.
We'll be rjoining hour oringinal programmming ass soon as w'e ficks our typos.


Should be football as the horrific program.

[IndianaAppMan]

We'll be rjoining hour oringinal programmming ass soon as w'e ficks our typos.


Should be football as the horrific program.

I figgered ot hwat yoo mint beefour yoo posttid bac, butt thanksss four da phunny type oze xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[IndianaAppMan]

Hey, where in Utah is Weber State? Are you guys Big Sky? What's your mascot?

[IndianaAppMan]

All this conference talk got me thinking: It makes absolutely no since for La. Tech to be way off isolated from its conference rivals from the WAC, and the same goes for UTEP in C-USA. I know there's more politics involved, but it seems common sense that they should trade places for geography/travel relief.

Look at how hodge-podge the conferences are in FBS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cfdia.PNG

Compare to how well conferences are regionalized in FCS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cfdiaa.PNG

The biggest exception is obviously the PFL. The Big Sky and Great West are also far-flung.

Note that several changes have happened since these maps were made. The xDSU's are now Gateway, er, uh, Mo. Valley FB Conference. UND & USD will be Great West. Samford is SoCon. The CAA is mislabeled as A-10. ODU & Ga. State will be added to the CAA in 2011 and 2012. Western Kentucky has gone FBS. Stony Brook is Big South, and Presbyterian will be, too, by 2010. Campbell (North Carolina) is starting PFL this year.

[BearsCountry]

UTEP would rather be in CUSA bc a)its a Texas school b)its major alumni bases are in Dallas and Houston. Louisiana Tech isnt in CUSA bc it doesnt have the tv market or facilities.

Also LA Tech wasnt on an island when they joined the WAC. The Texas schools and Tulsa were in the league.

[I Bleed Purple]

Hey, where in Utah is Weber State? Are you guys Big Sky? What's your mascot?

I thought you'd never ask?

*cues prize music from game shows.

Weber State

http://www.ogdencity.com/img/import/images/Residents/weber%20state%20universityweb.jpg

lies at the western base of Mount Ogden,

http://www.happytrowels.com/photo2.mt-ogden.jpg

So happens that the city WSU resides is also named Ogden (imagine that).

http://www.roadsidephotos.com/rp/arches/ogden.jpg
http://www.skisnowboard.com/ogden/Images/ogden/Ogden-map.jpg

Known as Junction City to the West during the height of the railroad days. Union station being the hub for many years

http://www.dr-gaertner.de/usa/usa3/dias33/p145-03.jpg

Adjoining to historic 25th "two bit" street, where the beer and hookers (underground during prohibition) flowed precipitously.

http://www.silogic.com/genealogy/Ogden,%20UT/Union%20Station,%2025th%20Street,%20Ogden,%20UT.jp g
http://www.skisnowboard.com/ogden/Images/ogden/25thst.jpg

Weber State plays here on weekends during the fall.

http://www.weber.edu/WSUImages/WSUToday/ImagesofWSU/2008%20images/aerialstad2.jpg

and here on many Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays in the winter

http://community.weber.edu/deeeventscenter/images/DEC_Outside.jpg

http://www.nmnathletics.com.edgesuite.net/pics8/400/KV/KVVQFUJRCUXKBIY.20070901193440.jpg

Our mascot is Waldo

http://www.travelin-tigers.com/pics/mas93web.jpg

and we are the Wildcats

http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/03/WeberStateWildcats.jpg

Sorry guys, with all the UM guys posting a pic of their place all the time, this lone WSU alum has to make up for it with lots of pics.

[IndianaAppMan]

Thanks! Great pics. I especially like that cool map!

I may be among many App fans at AGS, but I'd be surprised if there are ten App State grads in my current state.

[I Bleed Purple]

The map implies I-84 meets up with I-15 near Salt Lake. They seemed to neglect it runs along the south of Ogden and meets up with I-15 at Riverdale, a little above the "Ice Sheet" lettering. What meets up in the map is U.S. 89 and I-15.

By the way, that map faces southwest.

[813Jag]

All this conference talk got me thinking: It makes absolutely no since for La. Tech to be way off isolated from its conference rivals from the WAC, and the same goes for UTEP in C-USA. I know there's more politics involved, but it seems common sense that they should trade places for geography/travel relief.

Look at how hodge-podge the conferences are in FBS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cfdia.PNG

Compare to how well conferences are regionalized in FCS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cfdiaa.PNG

The biggest exception is obviously the PFL. The Big Sky and Great West are also far-flung.

Note that several changes have happened since these maps were made. The xDSU's are now Gateway, er, uh, Mo. Valley FB Conference. UND & USD will be Great West. Samford is SoCon. The CAA is mislabeled as A-10. ODU & Ga. State will be added to the CAA in 2011 and 2012. Western Kentucky has gone FBS. Stony Brook is Big South, and Presbyterian will be, too, by 2010. Campbell (North Carolina) is starting PFL this year.
Most of those out of wack conferences come from that Super WAC (16 teams from Hawaii to Texas), this was spurred by the loss of the SWC. The Mountain West was old WAC teams that stuck together later adding TCU (who hopped around in a few conferences). La Tech was looking for a home and didn't want to join the Sun Belt.

[jessesd]

My brother used to attend MNSU until last year and he feels it's an administration cry to get the townies come to their games because attendance by non-students/alumni is getting worse!! They received some newsletter early in the springs trying to encourage the alumni to boost attendance too.

He agrees with many here...... the chance of they being pushed down to FCS are close to none, also they play on the WAC (not a fat chance they get kicked out of their league either!!!)

false alarm here, nothing to see folks, move along!!!

[Franks Tanks]

If any school deserves to be kicked out of FBS its Eastern Michigan. True story one of my fraternity brothers had a younger brother that was a pretty good FB player. He was recruited lightly by Lafayette and some other PL schools but none of them gave him any money--it was basically well if you wanna apply and get in come and walk on. Well he actually ended up getting a FB scholly to Eastern Michigan, the only one he was offered. He ended up getting injured and left Eastern Michigan to go to Delaware. He thought about walking on for the Hens but eventually decided against it as he felt he would have a very small chance of actually getting any playing time. Also Eastern Michigan had something like 28k in total attendance this year xlolx. 4 home games that averages 6,800 per game or something--pathetic.

[Ronbo]

glad they will stay "1A" in other sports xwhistlex

Well the WAC is a major basketball conference. It isn't included in the mid major moniker which is what I assume he is talking about.

Mid Major in Basketball is the same as I-AA in football.

[Ronbo]

What's going on in the Salt Lake west of the 12th Street Exit? Looks like a devloped area went under.

http://www.skisnowboard.com/ogden/Images/ogden/Ogden-map.jpg

[IndianaAppMan]

Well the WAC is a major basketball conference. It isn't included in the mid major moniker which is what I assume he is talking about.

Mid Major in Basketball is the same as I-AA in football.

No, it's not the same. Most "pundits" would label the MAC, the Sun Belt, and C-USA (besides Memphis, of course) as mid-majors in basketball. Besides, conferences with 1-AA teams like the Horizon League, the Atlantic 10, and the Missouri Valley consistently outperform those supposedly superior 1-A conferences.

[I Bleed Purple]

What's going on in the Salt Lake west of the 12th Street Exit? Looks like a devloped area went under.

http://www.skisnowboard.com/ogden/Images/ogden/Ogden-map.jpg

I'm more worried about where I-15 goes north of 12th St.

I'm not as familiar with the areas going out west toward the lake. It might be the northern part of Ogden Bay, but I thought that was more southerly. I don't think the western edges are drawn out the best anyway. I got it from a ski website.

[McTailGator]

hypothetical

what would happens to their players if they were forced to move down to FCS?

I doubt that the NCAA will have the balls to do anything RIGHT for a change.

But, Remember, FBS schools have 85 players on 85 full scholarships.

FBS allows 85 players to use 63 partial scholarships.

So they could simply reduce their grants in aid per player so they don't exceep 63 in total.

A large departing senior class and cutting a fiew under performs like D-I baseball just had to do and they could be in the playoffs the very next year.