LFN: New Goodman Turf and PL News

[Lehigh Football Nation]

More on Goodman's new turf, and a bit of Fordham, Bucknell, and Colgate news too:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The son of Pfizer's CFO can't be getting a "scholarship" at Bucknell, can he? xlolx

[89Hen]

“What we have been able to do is make the best venue in the Patriot League even better. I expect that when the project is completed we will have the best natural surface in the Northeast. Goodman has always provided a great environment for our players and now we will have a surface to match that.”

Countdown to MPLS in 5.... 4.... 3....

[Ken_Z]

The son of Pfizer's CFO can't be getting a "scholarship" at Bucknell, can he? xlolx

do you want Bucknell to do what it takes to get competitive or not?

[ngineer]

What kind of 'need based formula' is that?!! As ol' Duffy Doughterty of Michgan State used to say, "I have a need based formula...How much do I need him?"
Does raise questions though about what qualifies for an athletic grant in aid....xconfusedx

[PLLB]

colgate is getting lights at andy kerr

[Ken_Z]

What kind of 'need based formula' is that?!!

based on my observations, the more someone makes the more they need. we are now focusing our recruiting efforts on the mega wealthy as they will surely qualify for full tuition need based aid. with this strategy we expect to not only dominate the PL, but the entire BCS division within a few years.

[LBPop]

I don't know why everyone is so surprised. The man is a CFO, so it's fairly likely that he is also a CPA. And tax returns are the primary basis for determining income for financial aid consideration. I'll bet those returns tell a really sad story...xrolleyesx

[MplsBison]

Is this "another one bites the dust" or did Goodman already have turf?


Either case, another grass field not installed in a cold weather climate. Only possible outcome is good. No possible way to view it negatively.


Won't be long until the entire Patriot League is turf. So much for the grass "tradition". Good riddance.

[Franks Tanks]

Is this "another one bites the dust" or did Goodman already have turf?


Either case, another grass field not installed in a cold weather climate. Only possible outcome is good. No possible way to view it negatively.


Won't be long until the entire Patriot League is turf. So much for the grass "tradition". Good riddance.

Lehigh is getting new natural turf xlolx sorry

[Hoyadestroya85]

geez i wish i could neg him much more

[ngineer]

colgate is getting lights at andy kerr

Why? Can't imagine many night games up there in the freezing evenings...

[TheValleyRaider]

Why? Can't imagine many night games up there in the freezing evenings...

I think the idea is 1-2 night games in September, then allowing us to have 1 pm kickoffs later in the season (just in case the light begins to fail)

Like the turf, it's also Lacrosse-related. They can have night games in the springtime now too

[Ken_Z]

Like the turf, it's also Lacrosse-related. They can have night games in the springtime now too

springtime = ? May? June? school is out in July so that can't be it.

[TheValleyRaider]

Like the turf, it's also Lacrosse-related. They can have night games in the "springtime" now too


springtime = ? May? June? school is out in July so that can't be it.

How's that? xsmiley_wix

[MplsBison]

Lehigh is getting new natural turf xlolx sorry

You won't be the first team/stadium to put in new natural turn only to turn right around and install artificial after realizing how poor natural is.


Chattanooga comes to mind after that pathetic grass field they put out for the JMU v Montana national championship.




The simple truth is that Lehigh's stadium will always be ranked 3rd to Colgate's and Layfayette's until they get fieldturf.

[Franks Tanks]

You won't be the first team/stadium to put in new natural turn only to turn right around and install artificial after realizing how poor natural is.


Chattanooga comes to mind after that pathetic grass field they put out for the JMU v Montana national championship.




The simple truth is that Lehigh's stadium will always be ranked 3rd to Colgate's and Layfayette's until they get fieldturf.


Lehigh has never had artifical turf. They are tearing up their old natural turf to add drainage etc and lay some more sod. No offense to the Colgate folks as Andy Kerr is a nice stadium, but Goodman is still at least the 2nd best venue in the league. With some updates it would probably blow by Fisher again.

[DFW HOYA]

The simple truth is that Lehigh's stadium will always be ranked 3rd to Colgate's and Layfayette's until they get fieldturf.

It reads as if you've never visited Goodman Stadium. As a practical matter, its natural bowl and seating around the field makes it the best PL stadium. Lafayette gets points for the renovation, but Fisher Field's visiting side is a shadow of the home side, much like Colgate.

Bucknell has a nice presentation, as does Holy Cross, although Fitton Field is due some renovation of its own.

Fordham has only one side of stands, so it drops as a result.

Six stadiums in the PL...that's all worth discussing. xeyebrowx

[bison137]

You won't be the first team/stadium to put in new natural turn only to turn right around and install artificial after realizing how poor natural is.

Chattanooga comes to mind after that pathetic grass field they put out for the JMU v Montana national championship.

The simple truth is that Lehigh's stadium will always be ranked 3rd to Colgate's and Layfayette's until they get fieldturf.



As usual, wrong on at least two counts.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It reads as if you've never visited Goodman Stadium. As a practical matter, its natural bowl and seating around the field makes it the best PL stadium. Lafayette gets points for the renovation, but Fisher Field's visiting side is a shadow of the home side, much like Colgate.

Bucknell has a nice presentation, as does Holy Cross, although Fitton Field is due some renovation of its own.

Fordham has only one side of stands, so it drops as a result.

Six stadiums in the PL...that's all worth discussing. xeyebrowx

You must spread reputation around before giving rep points to DFW Hoya again. :D

Every time I go to Fordham I gnash my teeth as to why they don't have visiting stands. I know the reason - they need the room for the baseball stadium - but it really takes away from the stadium experience, IMO. It's too bad, too, since its place on campus is simply beautiful. Great for pictures, though. xrulesx

[DetroitFlyer]

You must spread reputation around before giving rep points to DFW Hoya again. :D

Every time I go to Fordham I gnash my teeth as to why they don't have visiting stands. I know the reason - they need the room for the baseball stadium - but it really takes away from the stadium experience, IMO. It's too bad, too, since its place on campus is simply beautiful. Great for pictures, though. xrulesx

I actually kind of enjoyed sitting with the Fordham fans last year when I traveled to the Bronx. All of the Fordham fans I spoke with sans one, were very classy and they made this Flyer fan feel welcome! Of course we do not have a big rivalry with Fordham, (yet), so it works OK. In some places like Morehead State, sitting with the home team fans in your Flyer colors might be hazardous to your health.... We still had our "Dayton" section at Fordham, but I noticed many Flyer fans dispersed throughout the crowd.

I was cheering rather loudly so maybe the Fordham fans did not feel the same way.... LOL!

One of the things I do not like about Welcome Stadium is that the home and away fans are kept far, far apart. I usually travel to the visitor side to meet and welcome visiting fans to Dayton, ( hoping to welcome MANY Fordham fans this fall ), but without the extra effort on my part, I would never even see the visiting fans.... Again, maybe not so bad depending on the teams involved....

All in all, I was very impressed with Fordham's facility and the experience in general.

[Fordham]

Appreciate the thoughts from youz guys on our facility and it's nice to see you both speak more kindly of it than I do. It's part of the space problems that exist on campus and I can only hope (likely against reason) that football may get some sort of upgrade as a tag-along to some of the other facility construction/upgrades that are expected in the next 5 - 20 years xrotatehx .

I love Keating Hall as a backdrop to the southside end zone but NOT having bleachers makes it abysmal to me. What's worse is if you ever see a game on TV filmed there. It could look great if the cameras were set up on the other side but instead, they're obviously always on the bleachers/press box side and therefore the backdrop is right field and the infield of the baseball field. Looks absolutely horrendous and bush league imo.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Appreciate the thoughts from youz guys on our facility and it's nice to see you both speak more kindly of it than I do. It's part of the space problems that exist on campus and I can only hope (likely against reason) that football may get some sort of upgrade as a tag-along to some of the other facility construction/upgrades that are expected in the next 5 - 20 years xrotatehx .

I love Keating Hall as a backdrop to the southside end zone but NOT having bleachers makes it abysmal to me. What's worse is if you ever see a game on TV filmed there. It could look great if the cameras were set up on the other side but instead, they're obviously always on the bleachers/press box side and therefore the backdrop is right field and the infield of the baseball field. Looks absolutely horrendous and bush league imo.

Absolutely! I have the same problem with Lehigh's TV guys, focusing on the sometimes empty visiting stands, when if you simply shot it from the other side, you'd see rowdy fans... For Fordham of course, it's a necessity to shoot it from the visiting side just to prove that the fans are there!

Of course, I always make that mistake myself... :o shooting from the home side at Lehigh games. Mental note, must try to fix that next year...

[Franks Tanks]

Absolutely! I have the same problem with Lehigh's TV guys, focusing on the sometimes empty visiting stands, when if you simply shot it from the other side, you'd see rowdy fans... For Fordham of course, it's a necessity to shoot it from the visiting side just to prove that the fans are there!

Of course, I always make that mistake myself... :o shooting from the home side at Lehigh games. Mental note, must try to fix that next year...


Same with Lafayette. You see the visitor bleachers which are ok, but pretty darn small. For some reason the TV producers either dont care or arent smart enough to fugure out that other angle would be much better. Colgate has a good idea with the Press box on the visiting stands so a camera from that angle will show the home stands.

[Fordham]

The feedback we received about this when our game was being televised last year is that the announcers have to be in the press box. Since this is a necessity, they therefore do not want to have cameras on the other side and have to call the game 'backwards' ... meaning, having to catch themselves from saying that someone went left or right, etc. when it appears to be the opposite to the viewer.

[Franks Tanks]

The feedback we received about this when our game was being televised last year is that the announcers have to be in the press box. Since this is a necessity, they therefore do not want to have cameras on the other side and have to call the game 'backwards' ... meaning, having to catch themselves from saying that someone went left or right, etc. when it appears to be the opposite to the viewer.

Well that does actually make sense--it would be really hard to keep using the opposite direction. In that case they hopefully still shows lots of shots of the home stands

[MplsBison]

Lehigh has never had artifical turf. They are tearing up their old natural turf to add drainage etc and lay some more sod.

Famous last words for many a grass field.


Chattanooga and the last national FCS title to ever be played on grass, says it all.


Bye bye, grass at Lehigh.

[Franks Tanks]

Famous last words for many a grass field.


Chattanooga and the last national FCS title to ever be played on grass, says it all.


Bye bye, grass at Lehigh.


"This project is part of our University's ongoing commitment to facility maintenance, and had been planned for some time," Lehigh Dean of Athletics Joe Sterrett '76 explained. "Goodman Stadium is a distinctive setting for football, however, the grass turf and subsurface had reached the end of a long (40 years-plus) life."

He continued, "The availability of modern irrigation and drainage systems and the comparative durability of specialty athletic grasses will help to make the field one of the best natural fields anywhere."

Lehigh head coach Andy Coen offered his thoughts on the project. "I am very pleased with the upgrades we are being able to make to our surface in Goodman Stadium. I believe it really shows Lehigh's commitment to providing the best to its student athletes."

He continued, "What we have been able to do is make the best venue in the Patriot League even better. I expect that when the project is completed we will have the best natural surface in the Northeast. Goodman has always provided a great environment for our players and now we will have a surface to match that."


Sorry that says it all--straight from the athletic leadership at Lehigh

[MplsBison]

Have it your way.


Meanwhile, Colgate and Lafayette will reap the recruiting benefits that their respective beautiful artificial fields allow them.


Lehigh will be left back.

[Franks Tanks]

Have it your way.


Meanwhile, Colgate and Lafayette will reap the recruiting benefits that their respective beautiful artificial fields allow them.


Lehigh will be left back.

Bucknell was the 1st team in the PL with fieldturf, and it is high quality. They have have the 2nd worst record in the league since they put it in.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Have it your way.


Meanwhile, Colgate and Lafayette will reap the recruiting benefits that their respective beautiful artificial fields allow them.


Lehigh will be left back.

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[MplsBison]

Can't wait until Lehigh gets artificial turf.


Nothing makes me happier than seeing the hatred on the faces of the old traditionalists when their beloved grass hits the dust and they're forced to see the beautiful artificial field every time they go to the stadium.

[ngineer]

Can't wait until Lehigh gets artificial turf.


Nothing makes me happier than seeing the hatred on the faces of the old traditionalists when their beloved grass hits the dust and they're forced to see the beautiful artificial field every time they go to the stadium.

Well, I'm afraid it will be a long one. With the installation of the new sod, it would be decades before such a change would even be considered.

[MplsBison]

How many times do I have to say Chattanooga, 2004 national championship game?


Bull*****, ngineer and you know it.

[bison137]

The new high quality grass fields with high quality drainage systems can handle huge amounts of rain with no problems.

[MplsBison]

The new high quality grass fields with high quality drainage systems can handle huge amounts of rain with no problems.

Chattanooga, 2004 national championship.



It's no sweat off my back to keep posting that every time you guys lie.

[DFW HOYA]

Chattanooga and Murray Goodman Stadium are two different setups in two different regions, so it's not the same issue.

[bison137]

Chattanooga, 2004 national championship.



It's no sweat off my back to keep posting that every time you guys lie.


Chatanooga did not have a good drainage system. You are a fool.

[DetroitFlyer]

The new high quality grass fields with high quality drainage systems can handle huge amounts of rain with no problems.

I wonder if the Pittsburgh Steelers and Pittsburgh Panthers would agree?

[89Hen]

Chattanooga, 2004 national championship.



It's no sweat off my back to keep posting that every time you guys lie.
xconfusedx Laying Bermuda sod in November = no chance the field will work.

Lie? xlolx Let me know when you come with ANY source to document that players prefer plastic.

[DetroitFlyer]

If you are any kind of a football purist, or ever played the game as a kid growing up, you have to like the grass! Some of the best memories I have are playing neighborhood "mud bowls" in the rain. I can still remember going to the Golden Arches absolutely filfthy dirty and the looks we got from the patrons, priceless!

College football today has good or bad become a high stakes game.... Playing a "championship" or a big game in the mud is now generally considered a bad thing.... Heaven forbid, if the conditions are not "perfect" the "best" team may not win.... Boo hoo!

For me, given a choice, give me the grass, the elements, and good old mother nature. Play the game the way it was meant to be played! ( Which is absolutely not inside IMHO ).

Now, I also understand that in this day and age, colleges many times look to maximize their investments. A football field might also serve as a soccer field, lacrosse field, practice field, and maybe even serve as an intramural field. Trying to maintain grass on such a use intensive field may not be practical.... But, if you are lucky enough to have a field that only sees maybe seven games a year, keep it in grass!

[Lehigh74]

Lehigh has an extensive sports complex with a number of practice fields. That is one of the reasons why the Philadelphia Eagles train their. Goodman is only used on game day and not for daily practice. This should keep the new grass field in pristine condition for a long time.

[MplsBison]

I wonder if the Pittsburgh Steelers and Pittsburgh Panthers would agree?

xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx


A perfect example of a Pennslyvania climate, just like Lehigh, where grass simply doesn't get it done.

Never has and never will.



The pathetic, childish refusal of the Steelers to install artificial turf just makes the problem worse.

Soon enough, probably this season, the NFL will force artificial to be installed and the Steelers will likely reap the rewards, just as the Patriots did last season when they installed artificial.

[MplsBison]

Lehigh has an extensive sports complex with a number of practice fields. That is one of the reasons why the Philadelphia Eagles train their.

But the main reason being the Lehigh bid the highest to pay the Eagles to train there.

And likely someone high up in the ownership structure of the Eagles graduated from Lehigh.

[MplsBison]

You guys might think I'm being a prick about this.


Well...yeah.


I have no sympathy for teams/schools who think they're "too good" to play on artificial.

Same type of attitude as thinking their's doesn't stink.


It's just a bunch of old traditionalists who would prefer to see their own players break their legs and tear their knees to shreds due to poor footing over having an artificial field put in.

[TheValleyRaider]

Soon enough, probably this season, the NFL will force artificial to be installed and the Steelers will likely reap the rewards, just as the Patriots did last season when they installed artificial.

Losing a Super Bowl is your idea of a reward? xconfusedx

[ngineer]

You guys might think I'm being a prick about this.


Well...yeah.


I have no sympathy for teams/schools who think they're "too good" to play on artificial.

Same type of attitude as thinking their's doesn't stink.


It's just a bunch of old traditionalists who would prefer to see their own players break their legs and tear their knees to shreds due to poor footing over having an artificial field put in.


Hell of a lot more injuries caused by artificial turf. Sod is much more forgiving. Additionally, in the hot weather, the surface can be as 70 degrees cooler on the grass surface as opposed to the plastic broiling in the August and September heat. Goodman Stadium is not used for any other activities other than Lehigh's home games, so the turf does not get chewed up by other sports using it or practice. Artificial surface has it's place for those schools that don't have the room to have many playing fields for soccer, field hockey, lacrosse (6 teams for mens and women). But if you can provide the best surface in the best interest of the players, do it.

[ngineer]

But the main reason being the Lehigh bid the highest to pay the Eagles to train there.

And likely someone high up in the ownership structure of the Eagles graduated from Lehigh.

Don't know what your smokin, but Lehigh gets paid by the Eagles to use the facilities and has received money for capital improvements to the numerous practice fields at the complex. Lehigh's practice fields and Goodman Complex in general is one of the finest in all collegiate sports. That's why the Eagles want to use them.

[MplsBison]

Losing a Super Bowl is your idea of a reward? xconfusedx

No, getting to the Super Bowl was their reward because of their fantastic home field advantage.

[MplsBison]

Hell of a lot more injuries caused by artificial turf. Sod is much more forgiving.

First off, that's not true in general.


But mainly, when the ground freezes in the cold months, it sure as hell is not softer.


But if you can provide the best surface in the best interest of the players, do it.

Absolutely! And without doubt, that surface is artificial.

[MplsBison]

Don't know what your smokin, but Lehigh gets paid by the Eagles to use the facilities

No that's false.


For example, Mankato (current home), Fargo and I believe Sioux Falls all bid out a few years ago to see who was going to be the home of Vikings training camp. Mankato had the highest bid so they stayed there.


Lehigh out bids everyone else to keep the Eagles.

[ngineer]

Lehigh makes money on this endeavor, or they wouldn't be doing it.

[MplsBison]

I didn't say they didn't.

They probably do end up net positive because having an NFL team fall camp at your school will draw people in, then you can sell them things.


That's what Mankato State does with the Vikings.



But certainly it's a bid process.

You don't think Lehigh is the only place that wants to have the Eagles, do you?

[TheValleyRaider]

No, getting to the Super Bowl was their reward because of their fantastic home field advantage.

Yeah, because the 3 Super Bowls they won previously on natural grass don't count? xconfusedx

I also think having guys like Tom Brady and Randy Moss help you get to a Super Bowl....

someone help, I'm defending the Patriots!

[MplsBison]

Kraft knew the Patriots needed fieldturf at Gillette or their home field advantage was meaningless. He made that judgment and did what had to be done without thinking twice.

He made the correct call.



And the Steelers will be making that correct call this season too.



Case closed on that issue. Nothing more you can add.

[ngineer]

I didn't say they didn't.

They probably do end up net positive because having an NFL team fall camp at your school will draw people in, then you can sell them things.


That's what Mankato State does with the Vikings.



But certainly it's a bid process.

You don't think Lehigh is the only place that wants to have the Eagles, do you?

Actually the number of schools that want to host the Iggles or any pro team is small. Lots of logistics issues, housing, stress on the facilities, sufficient facilities, wear and tear, etc. The Iggles for many years camped at DII West Chester much closer to Philly, but they didn't have enough space to handle multiple fields close to each other, let alone modern facilities. It was the Iggles who went searching for a new venue and approached Lehigh. Unless, someone can show me supporting documentation, I have every reason to believe that the Iggles pay Lehigh and not vice versa.xcoolx

[MplsBison]

Well I don't have any documents and I won't waste my time searching for them.


But it's a fact that Lehigh is not the only team that wants an NFL fall camp and therefore it is, in fact, a bidding process.

[ngineer]

Looks like a standoff Mp...;)

[CrusaderBob]

Kraft knew the Patriots needed fieldturf at Gillette or their home field advantage was meaningless. He made that judgment and did what had to be done without thinking twice.

Robert Kraft is a business man and his preference was to make money on the $300+ million personal investment he made in Gillette Stadium. In order to do that it needed the stadium to be used for more than 10 football games a year, so the stadium was used for concerts, soccer, and as many events as he could get in the place. As a result, the natural grass field took a beating and could never grow properly.

The fact that he replaced the turf multiple times over the first 5 seasons in the stadium tells you he thought more than twice before replacing the natural turf with the artificial stuff.

[MplsBison]

Robert Kraft is a business man and his preference was to make money on the $300+ million personal investment he made in Gillette Stadium. In order to do that it needed the stadium to be used for more than 10 football games a year, so the stadium was used for concerts, soccer, and as many events as he could get in the place. As a result, the natural grass field took a beating and could never grow properly.

The fact that he replaced the turf multiple times over the first 5 seasons in the stadium tells you he thought more than twice before replacing the natural turf with the artificial stuff.

Yet now we're hearing talk of a separate soccer stadium that NE would also use for football games?


Nice try. Don't think so.


Like I said, Kraft knew what had to be done and he made the correct business decision.

[The Last Engineer]

Well I don't have any documents and I won't waste my time searching for them.

But it's a fact that Lehigh is not the only team that wants an NFL fall camp and therefore it is, in fact, a bidding process.


Good thing you aren't letting the lack of facts get in the way of your good story.

The Eagles (whose upper management have roots in Boston or L.A. and are in no way affiliated with Lehigh) want to make as much money as possible. Lehigh offered the best combination of location and facilities for players and fans alike. This was an intelligent marketing decision which has resulted in many thousands of dollars being made by both the Eagles and the Lehigh Valley in general. If a bidding process was done, it was a case of Lehigh offering the lowest cost to the Eagles and absolutely NOT the Eagles being offered the most money by Lehigh.

All that being said, I think the real reason the Eagles do their training camp at Lehigh is because they like playing on the natural grass practice fields... you know, just like the stuff that they have at Lincoln Financial Field and their NovaCare practice facility.xoopsx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Last Engineer, in your avatar, is that a picture of "Lehigh #1" burned into Lafayette's stadium? I found an old article about those types of pranks that Lehigh did back in the day and quoted it on my blog... Just curious if that's what's on your av.

BTW, try doing that on artificial turf... your players would get some serious burns! :p

[89Hen]

The Last Engineer, in your avatar, is that a picture of "Lehigh #1" burned into Lafayette's stadium? I found an old article about those types of pranks that Lehigh did back in the day and quoted it on my blog... Just curious if that's what's on your av.

BTW, try doing that on artificial turf... your players would get some serious burns! :p
HEY!!!! That's MY picture from Delaware Stadium in either 1985 or 86. LE must have searched the AGS archives for that one. xnodx

[The Last Engineer]

89Hen knows his own turf well. That is indeed the future "Tub" in 1986. I got the picture from another AGS'er who may very well have pilfered it from the archives. The annual LU-UDel games were great. Maybe our respective institutions can get over our scheduling issues and start it up again in a couple years.

The only prank I want to see pulled on that school in Easton this season is the start of a new Lehigh winning streak, even if it must take place on their flubber instead of our natural grass.

[89Hen]

89Hen knows his own turf well. That is indeed the future "Tub" in 1986. I got the picture from another AGS'er who may very well have pilfered it from the archives. The annual LU-UDel games were great. Maybe our respective institutions can get over our scheduling issues and start it up again in a couple years.
xnodx I listed LU as the #1 game I'd like to see UD start back up. I actually have that picture in my desk drawer along with a picture of the winning TD from a UD/UMass game in 1985 that I posted as one of my best non-playoff memories.

[MplsBison]

If a bidding process was done, it was a case of Lehigh offering the lowest cost to the Eagles and absolutely NOT the Eagles being offered the most money by Lehigh.

Sure. That's perfectly reasonable.


But it is no doubt an auction process where Lehigh either bid highest in a normal auction or bid lowest in a reverse auction.