How much better is LSU (08) than MICH (07)

[APPALACHIANstate]

I hear a lot of talk about how LSU is no Michigan, but how much better are they? They already lost their (assumed) starting QB, so what do they have that makes them so much better?

*I do not think APP will win, their play @ Michigan was magical, but I do not think LSU is a lot different then MICHIGAN last year.

[Appaholic]

SPEED


We neutralized Mich with our speed......much like SEC has neutralized the Big10 in last two NC's.....our strength is their strength as well.....

[AppAlum2003]

And, don't forget that LSU also has The Sun at LT. The Sun uses his blistering 200 degree Louisiana temperatures to induce opponents into a fevered frenzy of hysteria and panic. By the time his opponent realizes where he actually is, LSU is already up by 22 touchdowns. ASU has no chance.

[Franks Tanks]

SPEED


We neutralized Mich with our speed......much like SEC has neutralized the Big10 in last two NC's.....our strength is their strength as well.....

Again the complete fallacy that the SEC is so much faster then everyone else. Michigan beat Florida and looked damm good doing it in the bowl last year. Michigan also pretty much gets the pick of the litter among recruits, they have plenty of fast guys. This years LSU team is no "better" overall then Michigan last year. However ASU may not match up as well vs. LSU in terms of style of play etc.

[APPALACHIANstate]

I think ASU played simply amazing against Michigan. I do not know for sure if it will be replicated again. However, if it is I see no reason why ASU can't beat LSU. We will see.

[Black Saturday]

I hear a lot of talk about how LSU is no Michigan, but how much better are they? They already lost their (assumed) starting QB, so what do they have that makes them so much better?

*I do not think APP will win, their play @ Michigan was magical, but I do not think LSU is a lot different then MICHIGAN last year.


Watch for the speed difference in the game, LSU will be the faster team. APPs speed advantage gave ASU a chance vs. Michigan. LSU will need to turn the ball over 6 times for ASU to have an advantage. I do think APPs offense can put about 21-24 pts on the board, however as a fan I don't have any delusions of winning this game.

[DLS]

cant say it was app's best game or even magical.

asu f-ed up so many times playing michigan it was ridiculous.

brett irvin got like 3 false starts alone AND at the worst possible times

[blazrdog#1]

when they have made the playoffs & the Mich game last year.They are a great 1-aa school but beating LSwho in Death Valley takes a miracle or a Brown/Sullivan coached team.They can keep it close with the Tiggers but to beat them will require App St literally putting the LSwho key backfield players on a backboard during the first quarter.:D

[89Hen]

SPEED


We neutralized Mich with our speed......much like SEC has neutralized the Big10 in last two NC's.....our strength is their strength as well.....
xnodx Beat me to it.

[89Hen]

Again the complete fallacy that the SEC is so much faster then everyone else.
I guess I should have been more specific in my agreement with appaholic's statement. LSU is fast.

[blueballs]

Michigan defeated UF because UF's defense sucked ass all year long. Michigan didn't exactly keep UF off the scoreboard, they outscored them and it could have been worse, which is why UF won't win the SEC this year either- but that's another topic.

Michigan's defense had been decimated by graduation and the NFL draft after the 2006 season, and it was apparent after watching the first two games that they didn't defend the spread worth a damn as well.

App hit some big pass plays against them on seam routes. App's two best receivers are gone and LSU had a better defense than Michigan did last year and didn't suffer nowhere near as heavy losses, and the guys they did lose they have able replacements for.

Football is a game of matchups... App matched up well against Michigan and not so well against LSU. The game isn't "giant killer against BCS NC," it is 11 on 11 on both sides of the ball and IMO- and I can surely be wrong- this is a bad matchup for App due to LSU's line play on both sides of the ball, overall defensive speed, and depth. The depth is why the weather will be a bigger factor than usual.

I can see LSU's o-line dominating App's defensive line, which was porous against the run last year playing against far inferior competition than LSU, wearing them down and setting the stage for big plays. If App gets some turnovers and hits a couple of big plays this may be competitive. Otherwise it will be a long afternoon and second half in particular for the Mountaineers.

My guess is 38-14 LSU and LSU rushes and passes for over 250.

[Appaholic]

Again the complete fallacy that the SEC is so much faster then everyone else. Michigan beat Florida and looked damm good doing it in the bowl last year. Michigan also pretty much gets the pick of the litter among recruits, they have plenty of fast guys. This years LSU team is no "better" overall then Michigan last year. However ASU may not match up as well vs. LSU in terms of style of play etc.

Not a complete fallacy and it's actually Big 10 vs most other conerences..........but I'll qualify my statement......see Fla vs. OSU for NC, LSU vs OSU for NC, Oregon vs Mich, USC vs Illinois......Mich beat Fla in ONE track meet because they had the ball last.....Mich may get the pick of the litter (not lately), but are they the pick of the litter becuase they are so great or because Mich gets them(re Dook basketball HS all-americans for analogy)?

[Franks Tanks]

I guess I should have been more specific in my agreement with appaholic's statement. LSU is fast.

Michigan is fast too, they just didnt play fast under Lloyd Carr or run schemes that expolited their speed.

[DLS]

besides quarterback lsu's corners are their biggest area of concern while our wr's are far from it for us. w/ tj, b.quick, coco, josh. . . etc. we will more than likely be deeper at this position.

not to mention we have one very huge advantage over lsu in experience.

thank you playoffs.

[g-webb1994]

I don't think LSU will hang more than 30 on Appy, simply because of their QB situation. Appy will have all kinds of trouble at the line of scrimmage on both sides. I'd say LSU 24-13 at this point.

[IndianaAppMan]

Again the complete fallacy that the SEC is so much faster then everyone else.

Scott Van Pelt said it best the day after the LSU-OSU game: "Buckeye fan, LSU's not any faster than you. They're just better than you." Ohio State & Michigan have a zillion players go to the NFL every year, but let's not kid ourselves. One Michigan win over Florida does not make the Big Ten better than the SEC by any long shot.

I went to a Purdue game this year, and they finished in the dead middle of the Big Ten. Trust me: App State could beat them by two touchdowns or more. How many SEC teams could that be said of last year?

[Appinator]

Michigan defeated UF because UF's defense sucked ass all year long. Michigan didn't exactly keep UF off the scoreboard, they outscored them and it could have been worse, which is why UF won't win the SEC this year either- but that's another topic.

Michigan's defense had been decimated by graduation and the NFL draft after the 2006 season, and it was apparent after watching the first two games that they didn't defend the spread worth a damn as well.

App hit some big pass plays against them on seam routes. App's two best receivers are gone and LSU had a better defense than Michigan did last year and didn't suffer nowhere near as heavy losses, and the guys they did lose they have able replacements for.

Football is a game of matchups... App matched up well against Michigan and not so well against LSU. The game isn't "giant killer against BCS NC," it is 11 on 11 on both sides of the ball and IMO- and I can surely be wrong- this is a bad matchup for App due to LSU's line play on both sides of the ball, overall defensive speed, and depth. The depth is why the weather will be a bigger factor than usual.

I can see LSU's o-line dominating App's defensive line, which was porous against the run last year playing against far inferior competition than LSU, wearing them down and setting the stage for big plays. If App gets some turnovers and hits a couple of big plays this may be competitive. Otherwise it will be a long afternoon and second half in particular for the Mountaineers.

My guess is 38-14 LSU and LSU rushes and passes for over 250.

Those pass plays that we scored on were five yard slants across the middle. If covered correctly, the wide reciever should get nailed about 2 steps after the catch by the safety in the middle of the field, like Michigan did in the second half.

Those two touchdowns were a result of our coaching staff realizing that instead of having one of their safeties playing zone over the middle for the big hit, they brought them both down into man coverage during 5 wide sets. This allowed us to easily beat them on this quick inside route with no help over the top. The coaching staff knew they had that play during the preseason, and that's why it came out during the first series, and why we ran similar deviations of it throughout the game. We never threw a "bomb" on a seam route.

We won't have Dex back this year, but if you can remember from the highlights of the games, some of the most clutch catches were done by Coco Hillary and Josh Johnson. Pair that with LSU losing three starters from their secondary, just like Michigan, and you can see why people at least are optimistic that we won't get blown out.

You are absolutely correct about the battle between the hashes though. There is really no way we can keep up with their depth. If LSU wants to, they will not have to throw a pass during the game, based on what I saw during the LSU-UF match-up last year. I think we will be much improved from last years unit, but an injury here could really set us back.

[McNeese_beat]

I'll repeat what I said before. The best college football team I've ever seen was Miami in 01-02 back when they had Moss and Wayne at WR, Shockey at TE, Portis and Davenport at RB, Ed Reed at safety, Morgan and Vilma at LB, about 4-5 NFL olinemen and I'm sure I'm forgetting a half dozen or more future NFL stars.

The closest thing to Miami — and maybe even their match — has been the last two LSU teams. LSU has become a talent factory that I think only USC matches in this era of college football. They are keeping Louisiana's top players at home and Louisiana is at the top of the heap (alternating with Alabama and Mississippi) when it comes to per-capita production of NFL players. Unlike Alabama and Mississippi, LSU is the only BCS school in its state (while having a larger population than Mississippi and a similar population to Alabama). Add to that that Louisiana is getting its share of top Texas, Mississippi, Alabama and, now, Florida players and it's no wonder it's so hard to match them athlete for athlete.

Their secondary the last two years has been unbelievably talented. I've never seen another secondary in college football that has had so many big, physical players. All their DBs have been 6-2, 210 pound types who run well and HIT.

It is there where LSU will negate App State. Spread LSU all you want. They have the athletes to match up. On offense, they have good speed and probably the fastest player in college football in Trindon Holliday.

So, no, Michigan is not in the same league as LSU. I think Ohio State would agree. And, LSU is not faster than the Big 10 teams simply because of a stereotype. LSU is faster because, well, watch them play Ohio State last year and Notre Dame the year before. It was men and against boys at the skill and mid-skill positions.

[I-AA Fan]

Geez, another thread?

The answer to your question in found in Meetchicken's game the following week. Not in their game against App State.

[Lionsrking]

I haven't read every post in this thread and maybe it's been pointed out already, but the biggest distinction between LSU and Michigan (in my opinion) is team speed and physicalness on defense, particularly in the front four. LSU can go two and three deep up front with little drop off in talent. Even without Glen Dorsey, they still have dominant type guys emerging and I don't see the App State O-line having much success blocking those guys. ASU's speed and athleticism won't show up as well against LSU's D as it did against Michigan's. Not saying they'll get completely shut down but it's highly unlikely they can make it a shootout like they did last year, which is their only hope to win. LSU will get their 35 to 42 points, if not more. App may be lucky to score twice barring turnovers or breakdowns in the kicking game.

[DFW HOYA]

Two words: much better.

[Cleets]

Last year's Mich. App. Game was an amazing display of coaching and odd match-ups...

App. did NOT play their best game - and won - Michigan did not play their best game either...
as we all know few teams play a "solid" game one.. that's what makes this LSU game fun


Go APP. State..!!!!!

[jstate83]

LSU is way better.
Add the fact that Appy stunned the college football world last year and you can bet them Bayou Bengal's gonna come out with a "purpose" in mind.

Playing/watching a game at LSU, at night, in Tiger Stadium is an experience all in itself.xsmhx xeekx
I don't think you will see anything like it in FBS and that includes the BIG House.
By gametime, them hard dranking/parting mofo's will be lit on all cylinder's. xlolx

[IndianaAppMan]

I'll repeat what I said before. The best college football team I've ever seen was Miami in 01-02... The closest thing to Miami — and maybe even their match — has been the last two LSU teams. LSU has become a talent factory that I think only USC matches in this era of college football.

No team that loses two games in a season, even if they're both in triple OT, is among the best CFB teams of all team. If 4-loss Arkansas can beat LSU on the road, 2001 Miami would have destroyed 2007 LSU.

I cannot believe that LSU's team last year would be praised that highly. Look at the 1995 Nebraska football team. Hands-down, they were the college football team of all time. Their closest game of the year was a 14-point victory over Washington State. Every other game was a rout. Check out their season slate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Nebraska_Cornhuskers . A few highlights include:
62-24 Fiesta Bowl win over #2 Florida, who won the next year's MNC.
41-3 over #10 Kansas.
44-21 over #7 Colorado.

In addition, Nebraska won 3 national titles in 4 years ('94, '95, '97) From '93 to '97, Nebraska went 60-3! (Granted, you should bear in mind that Penn State SHOULD have shared the MNC in '94, just like Auburn in '04, since they, too, were undefeated those years; Michigan also shared the MNC in '97; thank goodness that crap doesn't happen in FCS).

If 2001 Miami played Nebraska 20 times, I'd say Nebraska wins 11. Those two teams are really close. LSU, however, hasn't got squat on that Nebraska team.

LSU's had a nice run of late, and so has USC. They still don't come close to the run Nebraska had in the mid-90's. For that matter, USC and LSU aren't even close to what Florida State did for a decade and a half, either. For 14 years from '87 to 2000, FSU finished in the Top Five. FOURTEEN YEARS STRAIGHT IN THE TOP FIVE. USC has had six. They've got a long way to go to match that. FSU also had five appearances in the MNC game in eight years (including one win over '93 Nebraska) as well as numerous #2 finishes to Miami thanks to Wide Right(s).

Want an idea of how great FSU & Miami were back in the day? The 1991 Miami-FSU game had the most number of future NFL players of any college football game EVER. LSU versus anybody in college football today doesn't even come close to that.

I'm going to assume that McNeese_beat is too young to remember teams from the 90's; otherwise, LSU would never be compared to those great Miami, Nebraska, and FSU teams.

[IndianaAppMan]

Let's put it this way: with all due respect to my Mountaineers, there would not even be a discussion of any possibility whatsoever if they could beat those Nebraska, FSU, or Miami teams. Therein lies the explanation lies as to why LSU isn't even close to being one of the greatest teams of all time.

Part of the reason LSU is not as good is because now there is greater parity. Last year, Vandy beat South Carolina, So. Carolina beat Kentucky, and Kentucky beat LSU; App State beat Michigan, and Michigan beat Florida, who was thisclose to beating LSU on the road. Parity rules in college football.

[IndianaAppMan]

2008 LSU is much closer to Michigan's 2007 team than it is to 2001 Miami; that's why App State has a decent shot. I'm not predicting a win, but I wouldn't be nearly as shocked if App State pulls it off as I was last year.

[813Jag]

No team that loses two games in a season, even if they're both in triple OT, is among the best CFB teams of all team. If 4-loss Arkansas can beat LSU on the road, 2001 Miami would have destroyed 2007 LSU.

I cannot believe that LSU's team last year would be praised that highly. Look at the 1995 Nebraska football team. Hands-down, they were the college football team of all time. Their closest game of the year was a 14-point victory over Washington State. Every other game was a rout. Check out their season slate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Nebraska_Cornhuskers . A few highlights include:
62-24 Fiesta Bowl win over #2 Florida, who won the next year's MNC.
41-3 over #10 Kansas.
44-21 over #7 Colorado.

In addition, Nebraska won 3 national titles in 4 years ('94, '95, '97) From '93 to '97, Nebraska went 60-3! (Granted, you should bear in mind that Penn State SHOULD have shared the MNC in '94, just like Auburn in '04, since they, too, were undefeated those years; Michigan also shared the MNC in '97; thank goodness that crap doesn't happen in FCS).

If 2001 Miami played Nebraska 20 times, I'd say Nebraska wins 11. Those two teams are really close. LSU, however, hasn't got squat on that Nebraska team.

LSU's had a nice run of late, and so has USC. They still don't come close to the run Nebraska had in the mid-90's. For that matter, USC and LSU aren't even close to what Florida State did for a decade and a half, either. For 14 years from '87 to 2000, FSU finished in the Top Five. FOURTEEN YEARS STRAIGHT IN THE TOP FIVE. USC has had six. They've got a long way to go to match that. FSU also had five appearances in the MNC game in eight years (including one win over '93 Nebraska) as well as numerous #2 finishes to Miami thanks to Wide Right(s).

Want an idea of how great FSU & Miami were back in the day? The 1991 Miami-FSU game had the most number of future NFL players of any college football game EVER. LSU versus anybody in college football today doesn't even come close to that.

I'm going to assume that McNeese_beat is too young to remember teams from the 90's; otherwise, LSU would never be compared to those great Miami, Nebraska, and FSU teams.
Florida State also beat Va. Tech for the title in the 2000 Sugar Bowl.

[IndianaAppMan]

Florida State also beat Va. Tech for the title in the 2000 Sugar Bowl.

Oh, trust me, I know that very, very well. I still have a 1999 FSU National Championship shirt and a 1993 National Championship Coke bottle. My mom and dad met at FSU, ensuring the future existence my brother, myself, and my lifelong loyalty to Florida State, in good times and bad. I've been an FSU fan since I was seven.

That reminds me, while I was disappointed that my Seminoles chickened out on the chance to play my alma mater this year, instead opting for UTC AND Western Carolina (FSU's OOC slate has gone from UF/Miami/USC or UF/Miami/Texas A&M to that), I'm also kinda glad because I don't ever want to face the crisis of having to choose between my beloved alma mater and the place that allowed my life to happen.

[813Jag]

Oh, trust me, I know that very, very well. I still have a 1999 FSU National Championship shirt and a 1993 National Championship Coke bottle. My mom and dad met at FSU, ensuring the future existence my brother, myself, and my lifelong loyalty to Florida State, in good times and bad. I've been an FSU fan since I was seven.

That reminds me, while I was disappointed that my Seminoles chickened out on the chance to play my alma mater this year, instead opting for UTC AND Western Carolina (FSU's OOC slate has gone from UF/Miami/USC or UF/Miami/Texas A&M to that), I'm also kinda glad because I don't ever want to face the crisis of having to choose between my beloved alma mater and the place that allowed my life to happen.
I only chimed in because I'm a life long Nole fan. (Fell in love with the Noles in 1982 at age 6 when I got to see them play LSU. Even though they lost I knew they were a team I'd love. Also my Mother-in-law is an FSU grad) The only good thing about the schedule is that it gives me a chance to go to Tallahassee and Jacksonville for games. Besides I'm hoping the Noles win their division so I can go to the ACC title game here in Tampa. And to top it off I know two young men who will be Freshmen on the FSU football team this season.

Anyway back on topic......xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

Watch for the speed difference in the game, LSU will be the faster team. APPs speed advantage gave ASU a chance vs. Michigan. LSU will need to turn the ball over 6 times for ASU to have an advantage. I do think APPs offense can put about 21-24 pts on the board, however as a fan I don't have any delusions of winning this game.

That, and the fact that Michigan was already preparing for Oregon. I highly doubt LSU will be looking past ASU this year....lightning struck once, it won't strike again. xcoffeex

[IndianaAppMan]

That, and the fact that Michigan was already preparing for Oregon. I highly doubt LSU will be looking past ASU this year....lightning struck once, it won't strike again. xcoffeex

Agreed. I have no doubt that LSU will take us as seriously as they would any SEC game. Les Miles ain't stupid. He might even be extra motivated to prepare as a way to get back at App for embarassing his alma mater.

I do think that Michigan's non-preparedness for the App game has been vastly overstated. Look at the stats from the game: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272440130. App State was beaten in almost every category. Lloyd Carr said penalities killed them: 7 penaltiies for 56 yards? Give me a break. That's not what killed them. Mike Hart had a great game despite his injury. Michigan even had the super-clutch Henne-to-Manningham pass that nearly tore out the hearts of the Mountaineers at the end of the game (key word: almostxlolx )

What that game boiled down to was heart and coaching. App had practiced field-goal blocking daily all summer; Michigan overlooked that stuff. Appalachian exploited Michigan's weaknesses. Michigan did not. Appalachian played very well that day, but it wasn't even their best performance of the year, much less in App State history. The Mountaineers were even better against Delaware and Richmond last year. Take a look at the Richmond game and decide for yourself: http://www.faniq.com/video/Armanti-Edwards-Show-vs-Richmond-YouTube-4324,1,981/team_recent.

Look at UM game tape. Look at the stats. Contrary to most people's assumptions, Michigan didn't play all that poorly against App State. (Now against Oregon, that was a different story). When Dexter Jackson ran off for that second quarter touchdown, it wasn't as much because Michigan's tackling was so bad as it was Dexter Jackson's SoCon-champion sprinting ability (he had the fastest 40-yard dash time at the NFL combine).

If Appalachian State can manage to exploit any weaknesses of LSU (which might be harder to find than Michigan's) and can respond quickly if LSU exploits its weaknesses, this game can be a real dandy!

[APPALACHIANstate]

This is what I was hoping for, REAL discussions without trash talking.

[Skjellyfetti]

So, no, Michigan is not in the same league as LSU. I think Ohio State would agree. And, LSU is not faster than the Big 10 teams simply because of a stereotype. LSU is faster because, well, watch them play Ohio State last year and Notre Dame the year before. It was men and against boys at the skill and mid-skill positions.

I think this is just wrong. LSU of the last couple years was damn good. However, they lost A LOT. QB, receivers, running back, Glenn Dorsey. They are a middle of the pack top 25 team.

I'm not saying they aren't a quality team, just that they will most likely not be as formidable as they have been the past couple of years.

Michigan was also a 13-16 team and that's where they finished the season. They were not a top 5 team. I believe LSU is ranked in the preseason similarly to where Michigan finished.

[Franks Tanks]

Agreed. I have no doubt that LSU will take us as seriously as they would any SEC game. Les Miles ain't stupid. He might even be extra motivated to prepare as a way to get back at App for embarassing his alma mater.

I do think that Michigan's non-preparedness for the App game has been vastly overstated. Look at the stats from the game: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272440130. App State was beaten in almost every category. Lloyd Carr said penalities killed them: 7 penaltiies for 56 yards? Give me a break. That's not what killed them. Mike Hart had a great game despite his injury. Michigan even had the super-clutch Henne-to-Manningham pass that nearly tore out the hearts of the Mountaineers at the end of the game (key word: almostxlolx )

What that game boiled down to was heart and coaching. App had practiced field-goal blocking daily all summer; Michigan overlooked that stuff. Appalachian exploited Michigan's weaknesses. Michigan did not. Appalachian played very well that day, but it wasn't even their best performance of the year, much less in App State history. The Mountaineers were even better against Delaware and Richmond last year. Take a look at the Richmond game and decide for yourself: http://www.faniq.com/video/Armanti-Edwards-Show-vs-Richmond-YouTube-4324,1,981/team_recent.

Look at UM game tape. Look at the stats. Contrary to most people's assumptions, Michigan didn't play all that poorly against App State. (Now against Oregon, that was a different story). When Dexter Jackson ran off for that second quarter touchdown, it wasn't as much because Michigan's tackling was so bad as it was Dexter Jackson's SoCon-champion sprinting ability (he had the fastest 40-yard dash time at the NFL combine).

If Appalachian State can manage to exploit any weaknesses of LSU (which might be harder to find than Michigan's) and can respond quickly if LSU exploits its weaknesses, this game can be a real dandy!

Exactly. Dexter Jackson would have ran away from any SEC secondary as well on that play. He was one of the (if not the) fastest guys playing in college football last year at any level.

[813Jag]

I think this is just wrong. LSU of the last couple years was damn good. However, they lost A LOT. QB, receivers, running back, Glenn Dorsey. They are a middle of the pack top 25 team.

I'm not saying they aren't a quality team, just that they will most likely not be as formidable as they have been the past couple of years.

Michigan was also a 13-16 team and that's where they finished the season. They were not a top 5 team. I believe LSU is ranked in the preseason similarly to where Michigan finished.
Honestly their WR and RB losses can be replaced. Doucet was hurt most of the season Byrd made big plays and caught some big TDs. Scott, Holliday and Williams made big plays at RB. Dorsey missed time as well. They will still finish high in the SEC, I don't think they'll contend this year for the BC$, but stranger things have happened.

[IndianaAppMan]

They will still finish high in the SEC, I don't think they'll contend this year for the BC$, but stranger things have happened.

True dat. I remember in '97 FSU was supposed to be "rebuilding," but instead they dominated all year, including the Sugar Bowl against Ohio State in that game when John Cooper tried to cheat by sending a player directly from the sidelines (instead of the huddle) to catch a touchdown pass. He got caught and lost my respect. In fact, FSU would have been in the MNC game if it wasn't for that one play by Doug Freaking Johnson!

Likewise, Ohio State was supposed to finish behind Wisconsin and Michigan, but they were back in the MNC game again to withstand another beatdown.

I've learned not to write off teams prior to any season, so the same goes for LSU.

That said, I hope App can keep them out of the BC$xlolx .

[Skjellyfetti]

Honestly their WR and RB losses can be replaced. Doucet was hurt most of the season Byrd made big plays and caught some big TDs. Scott, Holliday and Williams made big plays at RB. Dorsey missed time as well. They will still finish high in the SEC, I don't think they'll contend this year for the BC$, but stranger things have happened.

Yeah, I agree with you. I was saying they lost a lot but will still be a mid top 25 team that possibly wins the SEC West. I don't think they are the most talented team in the SEC this year as they have been the past 2 or 3 years.

[KiddBrewer]

cant say it was app's best game or even magical.

asu f-ed up so many times playing michigan it was ridiculous.

brett irvin got like 3 false starts alone AND at the worst possible times


Quick dropped a TD.....

[B&G]

Exactly. Dexter Jackson would have ran away from any SEC secondary as well on that play. He was one of the (if not the) fastest guys playing in college football last year at any level.

Yep, there's a reason Dexter was drafted in the 2nd round of the NFL draft y'know.

'07 UM vs '08 LSU
QB - Michigan over LSU easily (App over both of them)
RB - LSU - has the depth and speed and Hart was injured in the 2007 game
WR - Seems pretty even
OL - Also pretty even
DL - LSU bigtime
LB - Michigan had good LB's but LSU's are a tougher matchup for App
DB - Both kind of inexperienced. Call it a draw.
Coaching - HUGE advantage to LSU

... after considering all of these factors. I would give the nod to '08 LSU by about 2 TD's if they can get anything out of ther QB.

[McNeese_beat]

No team that loses two games in a season, even if they're both in triple OT, is among the best CFB teams of all team. If 4-loss Arkansas can beat LSU on the road, 2001 Miami would have destroyed 2007 LSU.

I cannot believe that LSU's team last year would be praised that highly. Look at the 1995 Nebraska football team. Hands-down, they were the college football team of all time. Their closest game of the year was a 14-point victory over Washington State. Every other game was a rout. Check out their season slate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Nebraska_Cornhuskers . A few highlights include:
62-24 Fiesta Bowl win over #2 Florida, who won the next year's MNC.
41-3 over #10 Kansas.
44-21 over #7 Colorado.

In addition, Nebraska won 3 national titles in 4 years ('94, '95, '97) From '93 to '97, Nebraska went 60-3! (Granted, you should bear in mind that Penn State SHOULD have shared the MNC in '94, just like Auburn in '04, since they, too, were undefeated those years; Michigan also shared the MNC in '97; thank goodness that crap doesn't happen in FCS).

If 2001 Miami played Nebraska 20 times, I'd say Nebraska wins 11. Those two teams are really close. LSU, however, hasn't got squat on that Nebraska team.

LSU's had a nice run of late, and so has USC. They still don't come close to the run Nebraska had in the mid-90's. For that matter, USC and LSU aren't even close to what Florida State did for a decade and a half, either. For 14 years from '87 to 2000, FSU finished in the Top Five. FOURTEEN YEARS STRAIGHT IN THE TOP FIVE. USC has had six. They've got a long way to go to match that. FSU also had five appearances in the MNC game in eight years (including one win over '93 Nebraska) as well as numerous #2 finishes to Miami thanks to Wide Right(s).

Want an idea of how great FSU & Miami were back in the day? The 1991 Miami-FSU game had the most number of future NFL players of any college football game EVER. LSU versus anybody in college football today doesn't even come close to that.

I'm going to assume that McNeese_beat is too young to remember teams from the 90's; otherwise, LSU would never be compared to those great Miami, Nebraska, and FSU teams.

Let me clarify: I did not see Nebraska with my own eyes. I witnessed Miami and LSU. I've seen a lot of top SEC teams, a lot of Sugar Bowl teams, more minor bowls like Indy Bowls. Of all those teams, the recent LSU teams and the early 2000s Miami teams stand out.

I anticipate in a few years guys like Landry (who was not on last year's LSU team), Dorsey, Russell, etc., will be household NFL names. That is where the quality of this LSU era will come out, in my opinion.

Also, let me point out that when I compared LSU to 2000-2001 Miami, I meant that LSU was the closest current comparison to those Hurricanes, not that LSU's last two teams rank with the elite of all time. First, you don't compare eras. Second, you don't put a two-loss team in that stratosphere.

[McNeese75]

I haven't read every post in this thread and maybe it's been pointed out already, but the biggest distinction between LSU and Michigan (in my opinion) is team speed and physicalness on defense, particularly in the front four. LSU can go two and three deep up front with little drop off in talent. Even without Glen Dorsey, they still have dominant type guys emerging and I don't see the App State O-line having much success blocking those guys. ASU's speed and athleticism won't show up as well against LSU's D as it did against Michigan's. Not saying they'll get completely shut down but it's highly unlikely they can make it a shootout like they did last year, which is their only hope to win. LSU will get their 35 to 42 points, if not more. App may be lucky to score twice barring turnovers or breakdowns in the kicking game.

IMO this is one of the more reasonable gazes into the crystal ball I have seen. I think the bigger questions here is how much better was the 07 ASU team than 08 will be? :)

[GannonFan]

LSU can play defense against spread offenses. Michigan can't (for evidence, see Oregon's thorough domination of Michigan just a week after Appy St's upset). Appy St was able to consistently put points up on the board and stay ahead of Michigan (who for being a fairly pedestrian offense, didn't do too badly that day). Even with a new QB, LSU will put up points and they'll be able to keep Appy St's offense in check.

[putter]

Actually App will have to get past the caged Tiger coming out of the locker room and the chant of "Tiger Bait, Tiger Bait". If they get past that then they just have to play keep away in the Louisiana humidity in front of a national TV audience. No problem.

[McNeese_beat]

No team that loses two games in a season, even if they're both in triple OT, is among the best CFB teams of all team. If 4-loss Arkansas can beat LSU on the road, 2001 Miami would have destroyed 2007 LSU.

I cannot believe that LSU's team last year would be praised that highly. Look at the 1995 Nebraska football team. Hands-down, they were the college football team of all time. Their closest game of the year was a 14-point victory over Washington State. Every other game was a rout. Check out their season slate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Nebraska_Cornhuskers . A few highlights include:
62-24 Fiesta Bowl win over #2 Florida, who won the next year's MNC.
41-3 over #10 Kansas.
44-21 over #7 Colorado.

In addition, Nebraska won 3 national titles in 4 years ('94, '95, '97) From '93 to '97, Nebraska went 60-3! (Granted, you should bear in mind that Penn State SHOULD have shared the MNC in '94, just like Auburn in '04, since they, too, were undefeated those years; Michigan also shared the MNC in '97; thank goodness that crap doesn't happen in FCS).

If 2001 Miami played Nebraska 20 times, I'd say Nebraska wins 11. Those two teams are really close. LSU, however, hasn't got squat on that Nebraska team.

LSU's had a nice run of late, and so has USC. They still don't come close to the run Nebraska had in the mid-90's. For that matter, USC and LSU aren't even close to what Florida State did for a decade and a half, either. For 14 years from '87 to 2000, FSU finished in the Top Five. FOURTEEN YEARS STRAIGHT IN THE TOP FIVE. USC has had six. They've got a long way to go to match that. FSU also had five appearances in the MNC game in eight years (including one win over '93 Nebraska) as well as numerous #2 finishes to Miami thanks to Wide Right(s).

Want an idea of how great FSU & Miami were back in the day? The 1991 Miami-FSU game had the most number of future NFL players of any college football game EVER. LSU versus anybody in college football today doesn't even come close to that.

I'm going to assume that McNeese_beat is too young to remember teams from the 90's; otherwise, LSU would never be compared to those great Miami, Nebraska, and FSU teams.

A couple of more points:

1. When I speak of how good LSU has gotten, I'm specifically referencing their consistency. They've been a top five team four out of five years. While neither of their national championship teams during that stretch are likely as good as the 1995 Nebraska team, at no point during the 1990s did Nebraska produce five straight top five teams either. So the consistency is similar.

2. LSU had an injury-marred 2007 season. They lost their best offensive player, Early Doucet, and their best defensive player, Glenn Dorsey, for large chunks of the season. Ricky Jean Francois, who I guarantee is as good, or better, than Dorsey, was suspended for the whole season and did not play until the SEC championship game. Charles Alexander was a starting DT and he was lost for the season after three games. Will Arnold was an all-American candidate on the Oline but was never a factor because of injury. Craig Steltz was a shell of his old self by season's end. Matt Flynn did not play in the SEC championship game.

I realize injuries happen, but who can afford to have the injuries they had to their best players and still win a national title?

When LSU beat Virginia Tech (which finished No. 9) 48-7 in early September, I commented to some people that the only thing I thought could stop that team was injuries. And indeed the injuries came.

Later, I opined that if LSU got by Tennessee in the SEC game and got to the BCS game, they'd be extremely hard to beat because they'd finally be healthy. Did you see the whipping they put on Ohio State?

That team, when healthy, was a sight to see.

[McNeese_beat]

I think this is just wrong. LSU of the last couple years was damn good. However, they lost A LOT. QB, receivers, running back, Glenn Dorsey. They are a middle of the pack top 25 team.

I'm not saying they aren't a quality team, just that they will most likely not be as formidable as they have been the past couple of years.

Michigan was also a 13-16 team and that's where they finished the season. They were not a top 5 team. I believe LSU is ranked in the preseason similarly to where Michigan finished.

LSU has finished in the top five four of the last five years and in each of the last three years. I am not anticipating a national championship run by this LSU team because the schedule does not fall in their favor (at Florida and at Auburn plus no quality non-conference opponents like Virginia Tech last year).
LSU won its two national titles with journeyman QBs including last year's national title with a first-year starter.

And the point about LSU's elite speed wasn't to say that LSU was the greatest team of all time or anything like that. It was to point out the matchup issue: A speed-based FCS like App will have a harder time pulling off an upset against a speed-based BCS team than a team like Michigan which, while athletic for the Big 10, generally recruits players to compete in a smash-mouth league.

[Black Saturday]

IMO this is one of the more reasonable gazes into the crystal ball I have seen. I think the bigger questions here is how much better was the 07 ASU team than 08 will be? :)

I think your crystal ball may be a bit cloudy. The APP question is for those of us that follow ASU is "how much better can the '08 version be than the '06 which was the best of the 3 National Champion squads?" And to give some food for thought, those of us that follow ASU football closely know that '09will trump them all.

[McNeese75]

I think your crystal ball may be a bit cloudy. The APP question is for those of us that follow ASU is "how much better can the '08 version be than the '06 which was the best of the 3 National Champion squads?" And to give some food for thought, those of us that follow ASU football closely know that '09will trump them all.

I understand and probably agree the 09 ASU team will be loaded but unfortunately for you, they will not be playing LSU in August. So obviously you think the 08 team will be better than the 07 team because the 06 team is the best so far, right? Considering the players that played their last game in Chatty last year, I think some fans need to check their black and gold crystal balls.

Oh hell, I give up!! This is so far off the original topic... xlolx

Is the 2008 LSU team going to be better than 2007 OSU? IMO the answer is yes with regards to matching up with the FCS Champion. xnodx

[MountainMan]

A couple of more points:

1. When I speak of how good LSU has gotten, I'm specifically referencing their consistency. They've been a top five team four out of five years. While neither of their national championship teams during that stretch are likely as good as the 1995 Nebraska team, at no point during the 1990s did Nebraska produce five straight top five teams either. So the consistency is similar.

2. LSU had an injury-marred 2007 season. They lost their best offensive player, Early Doucet, and their best defensive player, Glenn Dorsey, for large chunks of the season. Ricky Jean Francois, who I guarantee is as good, or better, than Dorsey, was suspended for the whole season and did not play until the SEC championship game. Charles Alexander was a starting DT and he was lost for the season after three games. Will Arnold was an all-American candidate on the Oline but was never a factor because of injury. Craig Steltz was a shell of his old self by season's end. Matt Flynn did not play in the SEC championship game.

I realize injuries happen, but who can afford to have the injuries they had to their best players and still win a national title?

When LSU beat Virginia Tech (which finished No. 9) 48-7 in early September, I commented to some people that the only thing I thought could stop that team was injuries. And indeed the injuries came.

Later, I opined that if LSU got by Tennessee in the SEC game and got to the BCS game, they'd be extremely hard to beat because they'd finally be healthy. Did you see the whipping they put on Ohio State?

That team, when healthy, was a sight to see.


Pretty similar story to what happened with the Apps last season. Armanti was hurt before Michigan, Richardson was hurt most of the season even though he played, the O-line had a different starting lineup just about every game last year, and Gary Tharrington came in and out of every game with an injury at some point. We had our struggles mid season and early in the playoffs, but by the end most of the team was healthy. Delaware caught us when we were about as healthy as any other point in the season. Still not fully healthy, but what team is at the end of a 16 game season?

[Black Saturday]

I understand and probably agree the 09 ASU team will be loaded but unfortunately for you, they will not be playing LSU in August. So obviously you think the 08 team will be better than the 07 team because the 06 team is the best so far, right? Considering the players that played their last game in Chatty last year, I think some fans need to check their black and gold crystal balls.

Oh hell, I give up!! This is so far off the original topic... xlolx

Is the 2008 LSU team going to be better than 2007 OSU? IMO the answer is yes with regards to matching up with the FCS Champion. xnodx


So obviously you think the 08 team will be better than the 07 team because the 06 team is the best so far, right?

No, I just wanted to let you know what the real deal is with APP football. No curveballs or smoke, just the facts from someone who follows APP closely. The 2008 team has the potential to be better than the 2006 team. Yes, APP graduated some very good players, but have had some excellent, excellent recruiting classes, redshirted players, transfers for the defensive line, and is in no way rebuilding, but as the saying goes, reloading. Look for the 2008 offense to not miss a beat from the '07 and the defense to be vastly improved early on. The key to the 2008 Mountainers being better will be the defense

Back to the threads original question/opinion
2008 LSU is the better team vs. '07 Michigan

[MountainMan]

I understand and probably agree the 09 ASU team will be loaded but unfortunately for you, they will not be playing LSU in August. So obviously you think the 08 team will be better than the 07 team because the 06 team is the best so far, right? Considering the players that played their last game in Chatty last year, I think some fans need to check their black and gold crystal balls.

Oh hell, I give up!! This is so far off the original topic... xlolx

Is the 2008 LSU team going to be better than 2007 OSU? IMO the answer is yes with regards to matching up with the FCS Champion. xnodx

Its hard to say how this team will compare to last seasons Apps. I'm not worried about QB (starting at least), RB, LB, or DL at all. OL is going to be hard to figure since we lost 3 starters from 07, but we also get some guys back that were injured most of the season. At Michigan was started Bieschke (1st start), Holt, Irvin (Fr 1st start), Brown, and Acitelli. We lost Holt and Brown along with Suttle who normlly played C. Acitelli got hurt in the second qrt vs Mich and hardly played the rest of the year. We had several young guys start last year includinig Kilgore and Coley. So at LSU it should look something like this; Bieschke, Kilgore, Irvin, Acitelli, Coley. So we should be good, but depth is a problem.

WR: Yes we lost Jackson and Batichon, but we do have Hilliary, Johnson, Courman, Washington, and Quick. Everyone except Quick has starting experience so onec again the starters should be ok, but like the O-Line depth is an issue. I can see more passing to RB's comng into play early on to offset the depth at WR.

Secondary: This is the one that is really up in the air. Love S (started at Mich) and Gilbert CB (started NC game) should be fine but the other two spots are up for grabs with very little experience waiting. We have Jared Reine at CB who played some as a Fr and Mark Legree at S who played very well on Special Temas but had little time at DB. Fighting them will be several JuCo's and several incoming Fr. This group will be fun to watch at fall practice!

Special Teams: Punter is fine but we gotta hope we find a kicker to replace Rauch.

Looking back at last years team going into Michigan we had very similiar concerns about the DL, WR, and Punter. There are always questions heading into a new season, but I think 08 will be on par with 07 for game 1. What happens after that is anyone guess.

As far as LSU VS Michigan goes, I think Michigan was better on O than this years LSU team will be. Michigan had 3 pre-season Heisman canidates on O last season. Both teams had talented WR's and RB's, but UM had a Senior QB that set every passing record in school history. To me that gives a huge advantage to UM. On D the advantage clearly goes to LSU. UM had 7 new starters (although LSU lost serval of their own) and had no ideahow to cover the spread.

The wild cards will be how focused LSU is on ASU and how prepared ASU is for the heat.

[Appinator]

IMO this is one of the more reasonable gazes into the crystal ball I have seen. I think the bigger questions here is how much better was the 07 ASU team than 08 will be? :)

I think you are on to something here, but we can take it a step further. I think that everyone would agree that the JaMarcus Russell led version of the LSU Tigers in 05 is better than this team that will take the field on the last weekend of August this year. As stated before, ASU lost that game 24-0, but had a couple of scoring opportunities squandered. My thought is: "How much better is the '08 ASU team than the '05 team?"

Clearly there are stark differences in our defense. We were starting freshman and sophomores at LB in '05, who now have grown into two of the best in the nation at the FCS level (Banks and Roman), to go along with DJ Smith. Advantage '08. On our D-Line we had two NFL athletes, Hunter and Murrell, who are far more talented and tougher than our starters now. Advantage '05. Our Secondary in '05 was a younger version of last years (Lynch and the rest of the group), and while I don't think there will be a huge drop off in talent in '08, '05 was a potential ASU HOF group. Advantage '05. Based on all of this, I would venture to guess that we don't keep them at or fewer than 24 points like we did in '05.

On offense, however, things are drastically different. Richie v. Armanti is a debate in itself. Clearly Richie was the better passer (legendary 28 straight completions for a division 1 record v. Furman), and just his presence on the field could will our team to a W (ask a UNI fan about what they saw during the first NC). However, if you are ever lucky enough to sit in KBS on a brisk fall Saturday to witness Armanti Edwards, you will be able to see one of the most exciting college football players in the history of FCS (watch the highlights of the Richmond game). Armanti saves his best for the biggest games (4 TD's total v. Michigan, '07 playoffs) and this is a BIG game. Advantage '08.

We have more depth at RB this year than in '05 (KR was the starter, but we lost Atwater during the offseason and lacked a solid backup). Our WR corps. are extensively deeper this year (we had to convert Mayfield, an OLB, into a WR during summer camp in 05 to round out our starting line-up). The only thing where there might be a drop off is our O-line. Losing three starters and breaking those who will replace them in against the best D-line group in division 1 will be extremely difficult. All-around though, the '08 offense prevails over the '05.

No one has mentioned one key thing, the loss of Rauch. JM gave his first out of HS scholarship in forever to a Kicker to ensure we don't have any problems, but for some 18 year-old to have his first ever college game in Death Valley and expect the type of game we got from Rauch at Michigan is insane. This was evident our last time at LSU in '05, where Rauch missed 2 field goals during his first season with the 'Neers. Advantage n/a.

[BobcatJH]

Appalachian State will probably lose this game, but I do not see a blowout. Mark the tape! This game will be competitive!

Michigan had a ton of NFL talent on that team in 07. I bet LSU would take the likes of Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, and Jake Long.

Also, please stop with all the "LSU is a more intimidating place to play than Michigan" talk. The stage does not get much bigger than 110,000ish screaming fans at The Big House.

Appalachian State went into the Big House with every intention of kicking Michigan's @ss and thats exactly what they did!!Their intention was not to keep it close, or not to get embaressed. The Mountaineers have a chance to pull this off. They are talented on both sides of the ball, and they truly believe they can win.

LSU is less experienced on the offensive side of the ball than Michigan was last year. Defensively, there is no doubt that LSU is superior to the 07 Michigan team. That being said, there is no way they completely shut down that spread offense with a mobile quarterback like Edwards.

I am a Texas State Alum, but I have a great deal of respect for what they have built at Appalachian State. I will be rooting for them to shock the world again on gameday.

[SideLine Shooter]

Appalachian State will probably lose this game, but I do not see a blowout. Mark the tape! This game will be competitive!

Michigan had a ton of NFL talent on that team in 07. I bet LSU would take the likes of Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, and Jake Long.

Also, please stop with all the "LSU is a more intimidating place to play than Michigan" talk. The stage does not get much bigger than 110,000ish screaming fans at The Big House.

Appalachian State went into the Big House with every intention of kicking Michigan's @ss and thats exactly what they did!!Their intention was not to keep it close, or not to get embaressed. The Mountaineers have a chance to pull this off. They are talented on both sides of the ball, and they truly believe they can win.

LSU is less experienced on the offensive side of the ball than Michigan was last year. Defensively, there is no doubt that LSU is superior to the 07 Michigan team. That being said, there is no way they completely shut down that spread offense with a mobile quarterback like Edwards.

I am a Texas State Alum, but I have a great deal of respect for what they have built at Appalachian State. I will be rooting for them to shock the world again on gameday.

Welcome.xnodx

I believe you know your FOOTBALL.xthumbsupx

There is all truths to what you said. Thanks xthumbsupx

[McNeese_beat]

Pretty similar story to what happened with the Apps last season. Armanti was hurt before Michigan, Richardson was hurt most of the season even though he played, the O-line had a different starting lineup just about every game last year, and Gary Tharrington came in and out of every game with an injury at some point. We had our struggles mid season and early in the playoffs, but by the end most of the team was healthy. Delaware caught us when we were about as healthy as any other point in the season. Still not fully healthy, but what team is at the end of a 16 game season?

Very similar story. The App team that beat Michigan should have run the table against an FCS schedule, but you had injuries that you had to get over. You're right about injuries being unavoidable, but a big part of it is who gets hurt. I mean, if the Patriots lose Tom Brady, they won't be the same team. If the Chargers lose Ladanian Tomlinson, well, they could probably stand to lose any three other players before they lose him.

McNeese could never get over its injury issues. First the oline got beat up in August and they moved their TE to left tackle. Then their all-American WR was lost for the season in Week 2. Then their TB was lost for the season a week or two later. Then the killer came with Bryan Smith was lost for what proved to be the season in week 11 and wasn't around for the playoffs.

The team that was blown out by Eastern Washington in the playoffs was a shell of the team that beat UL-Lafayette by 21 on the road and was, in general, looking so good in September. Their two preseason all-Americans were in street clothes, their leading rusher midway through the year was on crutches, their Oline was patchwork.

Where the weakness of their schedule showed up was when, despite McNeese's injuries, nobody in the SLC was good enough to take advantage.

[BobcatJH]

Thanks SideLine Shooter.

I am happy I found this board. It is nice to share thoughts with some educated FCS fans.

[SideLine Shooter]

Thanks SideLine Shooter.

I am happy I found this board. It is nice to share thoughts with some educated FCS fans.

Some of them are, some well you know.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Let's not forget that poor old Michigan (so many fans claimed it was a down year for the Wolverines - thus the loss to APP) had 6 guys drafted including the #1 overall pick in Long - also going were Henne, Crable, Hart, Manningham and Arrington - all outstanding players - Only 3 programs had more draftees - SoCal, Va Tech and LSU --- We played with Michigan and all their studs and beat them - we will play with LSU as well ---

[GaSouthern]

I could see a win, I think the odds are 10:1 in favor of LSU but the odds against a 3-peat are much worse and they pulled that off! GO Appy BEAT LSU!!!!

GATA Eagles! Beat GEORGIA!

[technocat]

I'm not a big appy fan but I absolutely abhor LSU. I hope you guys take it to them all game long.

(of course after you beat LSU and MSU kicks KSTATE and MINNIE to the curb who's ever gonna want to play a FCS team again..... Knock on wood!)

[APPALACHIANstate]

I'm not a big appy fan but I absolutely abhor LSU. I hope you guys take it to them all game long.


Then to their mothers!

[IndianaAppMan]

I'm not a big appy fan but I absolutely abhor LSU. I hope you guys take it to them all game long.

(of course after you beat LSU and MSU kicks KSTATE and MINNIE to the curb who's ever gonna want to play a FCS team again..... Knock on wood!)

What bothers you about App State? (Well, I bet I can make a good guess: the obnoxious, classless way our fans acted on national TV in the Delaware game. Believe me: that is not what any of my friends at App were like. Most of our fans just want to have fun and do show good sportsmanship and are embarassed when a small minority makes App State look like a bunch of @ $$es.)

Anyway, glad to hear the good luck wish. I think you guys will have a good shot against K-State & especially Minnesota. After all, last year Minnesota had the worst Big Ten team in the conference's weakest season in years. In fact, I would think MSU should be the favorite.

By the way, something that'll help you keep from getting angry comments is to remember it's Appalachian, App, or App State, NEVER "Appy" or "Appy State." Also, UNC-Charlotte should just be called Charlotte, kinda how South Florida prefers to be called USF & Central Florida, UCF.

[CID1990]

The Big Ten has been overrated for the last ten years, and Michigan is their poster child. This is one of the factors that led me to predict that ASU could win that game last year.

In spite of the fact that LSU is a much better team than Michigan in all aspects, here are the three real reasons ASU will not win in Baton Rouge this fall:

1. ASU ruined Michigan's season in 2007.

2. ASU ruined Michigan's season in 2007.

3. ASU ruined Michigan's season in 2007.

[DLS]

What bothers you about App State? (Well, I bet I can make a good guess: the obnoxious, classless way our fans acted on national TV in the Delaware game. Believe me: that is not what any of my friends at App were like. Most of our fans just want to have fun and do show good sportsmanship and are embarassed when a small minority makes App State look like a bunch of @ $$es.)

Anyway, glad to hear the good luck wish. I think you guys will have a good shot against K-State & especially Minnesota. After all, last year Minnesota had the worst Big Ten team in the conference's weakest season in years. In fact, I would think MSU should be the favorite.

By the way, something that'll help you keep from getting angry comments is to remember it's Appalachian, App, or App State, NEVER "Appy" or "Appy State." Also, UNC-Charlotte should just be called Charlotte, kinda how South Florida prefers to be called USF & Central Florida, UCF.


personally i wasnt embarassed by the fans at all from the delaware game. they were TOLD by security to come down to the field. (even jerry moore's wife climbed over the wall)

i was however embarassed with the disrespect shown by the players toward Mr. Turchin. Also, k.rich's weak a$$ endzone dance.

if youre going to get a penalty for an endzone dance atleast go all out and make it a good one.

coco's comment about turchin was priceless though:
"he got more girls than . . . . ummmm. . . we . . um. . .got . . . girls"

that old man had no idea where he was.

[putter]

App needs to replace the speed of Jackson as he was a huge difference maker against Michigan. Edwards will make plays just because he is so athletic and quick but LSU will try to keep him in the pocket as I am sure they noticed the picks against Michigan. App did a good job keeping Hart in check for most of the game so I don't think anything LSU runs at them will be a huge problem (unless App lost a lot on D).

Will be a fun game to watch but Appy fans need to come up with a sign saying "PEOPLE DO WANT TO WATCH APPALACHIAN STATE!!! SHOVE THIS CUPCAKE UP YOUR ASS HERBSTREIT!!"

[KAUMASS]

When I looked at the App/Michigan game last year and posted that App had a shot at beating Michigan and that it could be close at the end of the second half, people had some interesting comments, mostly negative.

My prediction was based upon some research of common opponents between any FCS and FBS schools in 2006. For example, New Hampshire beat up on Northwestern, and Northwestern gave Michigan a decent game. Don't forget, Michigan had alot of talent coming back in 2007. UMass beat UNH in a sqeaker that year , and the NC game UMass and App were tied going into the 4th, with App taking control in the 4th.
When I get some time, I will break it down (common opponents, if any)unless someone else in AGS would like to do it .

Without doing the research, my gut feeling is that App will give them a game, but Appalachian will have LSU's respect and attention in preseason, unlike Michigan. BTW, didn't App play LSU 5 or 6 years ago and give them a decent game with some missed scoring chances in the red zone?

Good luck App. LSU has seen Tebow, but they haven't seen A.E. yet.

[technocat]

What bothers you about App State? (Well, I bet I can make a good guess: the obnoxious, classless way our fans acted on national TV in the Delaware game. Believe me: that is not what any of my friends at App were like. Most of our fans just want to have fun and do show good sportsmanship and are embarassed when a small minority makes App State look like a bunch of @ $$es.)

Anyway, glad to hear the good luck wish. I think you guys will have a good shot against K-State & especially Minnesota. After all, last year Minnesota had the worst Big Ten team in the conference's weakest season in years. In fact, I would think MSU should be the favorite.

By the way, something that'll help you keep from getting angry comments is to remember it's Appalachian, App, or App State, NEVER "Appy" or "Appy State." Also, UNC-Charlotte should just be called Charlotte, kinda how South Florida prefers to be called USF & Central Florida, UCF.

No I'm just bitter about 2006. I keep waiting for a BSC team to make it to the National Championship besides UM and you guys have crushed my dreams the last few years.

[james_lawfirm]

When I looked at the App/Michigan game last year and posted that App had a shot at beating Michigan and that it could be close at the end of the second half, people had some interesting comments, mostly negative.

My prediction was based upon some research of common opponents between any FCS and FBS schools in 2006. For example, New Hampshire beat up on Northwestern, and Northwestern gave Michigan a decent game. Don't forget, Michigan had alot of talent coming back in 2007. UMass beat UNH in a sqeaker that year , and the NC game UMass and App were tied going into the 4th, with App taking control in the 4th.
When I get some time, I will break it down (common opponents, if any)unless someone else in AGS would like to do it .

Without doing the research, my gut feeling is that App will give them a game, but Appalachian will have LSU's respect and attention in preseason, unlike Michigan. BTW, didn't App play LSU 5 or 6 years ago and give them a decent game with some missed scoring chances in the red zone?

Good luck App. LSU has seen Tebow, but they haven't seen A.E. yet.


I'm not sure I trust "research" like what you suggest. Team A beat Team B; Team B beat Team C; therefore Team A will beat Team C. Especially using last year's games to predict this year's games. ????

I was at the Michigan game. I told my family (and practically anyone who would listen) that App would hold it close for 3 qtrs. & perhaps lose by a TD or two. I have the same outlook & prediction for the LSU game. The difference in scholarship players alone makes an App win unlikely.

I really think many posters put too much emphasis on whether LSU will "overlook" App. State. What does that mean, to overlook your opponent? Did Michigan get any tapes of ASU prior to the game? Who knows? To me, to overlook an opponent is a meaningless statement. You might as well forget to show up to play. App beat Michigan because of 1) better team speed; 2) good matchups for App, especially on offense; and 3) better coaching.

I think LSU will pretty much match ASU's team speed and I am sure they have some fine coaches, although I know less about them than I do App's. Does App match up well with LSU? Actually, I have no idea. I'm still going to be there in person on Aug. 30 at 4:00 CST sweating like a stuck pig. I just hope to see a good, well-played, injury free game.

[JBB]

Year to year who knows? LSU was way better the Mich last year. If thats the case this year it could be a long afternoon.

Its a must see game. im pulling for ASU all the way.

[Lionsrking]

Also, please stop with all the "LSU is a more intimidating place to play than Michigan" talk. The stage does not get much bigger than 110,000ish screaming fans at The Big House.



Apparently you've never witnessed an LSU game in Tiger Stadium. There have been plenty of bore-fests over the years, especially for non-conference, non-BCS schools, but the opening game against a team that will come in with some hype will pretty much guarantee a rockin' house. Never personally been to the "Big House" myself, but know numerous people who have been to both, and to a person they say there is no comparison. That's not to say Michigan isn't an intimidating atmosphere, especially for an FCS school, but the energy level is nowhere near what it is in Tiger Stadium.

[IndianaAppMan]

Apparently you've never witnessed an LSU game in Tiger Stadium. There have been plenty of bore-fests over the years, especially for non-conference, non-BCS schools, but the opening game against a team that will come in with some hype will pretty much guarantee a rockin' house. Never personally been to the "Big House" myself, but know numerous people who have been to both, and to a person they say there is no comparison. That's not to say Michigan isn't an intimidating atmosphere, especially for an FCS school, but the energy level is nowhere near what it is in Tiger Stadium.

Michigan fans can get loud, too. It helps when they're not down most of the game. I'll hand it to you, though. Big Ten fans are a little less crazy than you find in the SEC or even ACC, hence Michigan, as large as it is, might not be as intimidating.

Sounds like you're an LSU fan. I grew up in Greenville, SC, near Clemson's "Death Valley." Do you know whose stadium got the name first?xcoolx

And by the way, how many stinking stadiums have to be nicknamed "The Rock"? Indiana University decided to call theirs that two years ago. Puuuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaze!xrolleyesx

[813Jag]

Michigan fans can get loud, too. It helps when they're not down most of the game. I'll hand it to you, though. Big Ten fans are a little less crazy than you find in the SEC or even ACC, hence Michigan, as large as it is, might not be as intimidating.

Sounds like you're an LSU fan. I grew up in Greenville, SC, near Clemson's "Death Valley." Do you know whose stadium got the name first?xcoolx

And by the way, how many stinking stadiums have to be nicknamed "The Rock"? Indiana University decided to call theirs that two years ago. Puuuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaze!xrolleyesx
Actually LSU calls their's Deaf Valley.

[B&G]

Michigan fans can get loud, too. It helps when they're not down most of the game. I'll hand it to you, though. Big Ten fans are a little less crazy than you find in the SEC or even ACC, hence Michigan, as large as it is, might not be as intimidating.

Sounds like you're an LSU fan. I grew up in Greenville, SC, near Clemson's "Death Valley." Do you know whose stadium got the name first?xcoolx

And by the way, how many stinking stadiums have to be nicknamed "The Rock"? Indiana University decided to call theirs that two years ago. Puuuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaze!xrolleyesx

HUGE understatement in my opinion. The Michigan fans were nice to us before the game and I figured it was because they didn't see us as a threat. Then they were nice to us during the game and I figured they just aren't worried and think they'll come back an win but they are surprised at our talent. Then they were gracious to us AFTER they lost. I was expecting a torturous mile walk back to the car but everyone was nice to us without fail. In the SEC or south in general? Before the game I expect taunting. During the game I expect taunting. If by some chance ASU wins, then after the game I expect violence.

[SideLine Shooter]

HUGE understatement in my opinion. The Michigan fans were nice to us before the game and I figured it was because they didn't see us as a threat. Then they were nice to us during the game and I figured they just aren't worried and think they'll come back an win but they are surprised at our talent. Then they were gracious to us AFTER they lost. I was expecting a torturous mile walk back to the car but everyone was nice to us without fail. In the SEC or south in general? Before the game I expect taunting. During the game I expect taunting. If by some chance ASU wins, then after the game I expect violence.

You are exactly RIGHT on ALL COUNTS...xnodx

[Franks Tanks]

HUGE understatement in my opinion. The Michigan fans were nice to us before the game and I figured it was because they didn't see us as a threat. Then they were nice to us during the game and I figured they just aren't worried and think they'll come back an win but they are surprised at our talent. Then they were gracious to us AFTER they lost. I was expecting a torturous mile walk back to the car but everyone was nice to us without fail. In the SEC or south in general? Before the game I expect taunting. During the game I expect taunting. If by some chance ASU wins, then after the game I expect violence.

Its not the Big Ten in general just Michigan fans. In case you werent sure Michigan is perhaps the finest public university in the country and attracts smart and classy students who become well off and classy alums. A game at Ohio State or Penn State however will be very similar to an SEC experiences. Both places have legions of more working class fans who are piss drunk and mean and ready to go. Michigan does not represent the Big 10, even Joe Paterno always commenst that the big house is not very loud or intimiating to play in.

[hawkeye]

How much better were they than Ohio St.? Miiiiiiichigan does not come close. Les Miles will not overlook App St. They will come on the field full of piss and vinegar. I cant explain the feeling of being in Death Valley on a Saturday night. Been there many times for SEC matchups. Advice: If you go, wear a helmet. The whiskey bottles hurt when hurled from the top decks.

[Lionsrking]

Sounds like you're an LSU fan. I grew up in Greenville, SC, near Clemson's "Death Valley." Do you know whose stadium got the name first?xcoolx



I've had season tickets to LSU games for over 20 years though I rarely go now, since we've reinstated football. I still keep the tickets because I have friends and family who like to go, and my wife and I go when there's no conflict. Having said that, I don't know that I would classify myself as an "LSU fan" as much as I would say I'm simply a fan of college football in general. I've been to games all over the country over the years, including a couple of games at Clemson.

As for who got the nickname "Death Valley" first? That's a long running debate that will never be answered to either party's satisfaction, but as another poster mentioned, LSU was first known as "Deaf Valley" which evolved over time into "Death Valley."

[Johnny5]

App State simply matched up well against UM. UM and OSU have traditionally had difficulties with spread style offenses. However, I believe LSU produces a matchup difficulty with App with their defensive playing style.

[Aho_Old_Guy]

App State simply matched up well against UM. UM and OSU have traditionally had difficulties with spread style offenses. However, I believe LSU produces a matchup difficulty with App with their defensive playing style.

Actually . . . you have that backward. xlolx

[Skjellyfetti]

Les Miles will not overlook App St.

Why does everyone make this argument? LSU overlooked a 6-loss Kentucky team last year. Was Oklahoma State never upset when he coached them?

[813Jag]

Why does everyone make this argument? LSU overlooked a 6-loss Kentucky team last year. Was Oklahoma State never upset when he coached them?
When Kentucky beat LSU they only had one loss, and losses to Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't bad. The losses to South Carolina and Mississippi State could possibly be called bad.

[jcf5445]

When Kentucky beat LSU they only had one loss, and losses to Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't bad. The losses to South Carolina and Mississippi State could possibly be called bad.

Mississippi State went on the road and whipped Kentucky and their Heisman hopeful in every phase of the game. The two teams finished with the same overall record, and MSU had a better SEC record than UK. I don't think you could possibly call Kentucky's loss to MSU bad.

Anyways, as of right now, it is considered a miracle that Appalachian State beat Michigan. If they beat LSU, which I highly doubt would happen once in 50 attempts, then ASU and FCS will start getting some huge respect, and the word miracle will start being replaced by the word routine. I would absolutely love to see the upset happen, but I'm definitely not putting any money on it.

[813Jag]

Mississippi State went on the road and whipped Kentucky and their Heisman hopeful in every phase of the game. The two teams finished with the same overall record, and MSU had a better SEC record than UK. I don't think you could possibly call Kentucky's loss to MSU bad.

Anyways, as of right now, it is considered a miracle that Appalachian State beat Michigan. If they beat LSU, which I highly doubt would happen once in 50 attempts, then ASU and FCS will start getting some huge respect, and the word miracle will start being replaced by the word routine. I would absolutely love to see the upset happen, but I'm definitely not putting any money on it.
The only reason I said MSU was a bad loss for Kentucky was because at the time the Bulldogs had lost 3 of their last four games. That game turned their season around.

[JohnStOnge]

I hear a lot of talk about how LSU is no Michigan, but how much better are they? They already lost their (assumed) starting QB, so what do they have that makes them so much better?

*I do not think APP will win, their play @ Michigan was magical, but I do not think LSU is a lot different then MICHIGAN last year.

Actually, on paper going in, I don't think this LSU team is regarded as being as good as that Michigan team was. I also think that the "speed" thing is way overblown. I think the Big 10 has plenty of speed. I think LSU does have more overall team speed than App does but I think Michigan did too.

But App State isn't going to sneak up on LSU. Also, App State won't have that track guy who caught that short pass and went the distance against Michigan and they won't have Lynch at safety.

Finally, things went right for App State in that Michigan game. They were outgained 479 to 387 in total yards. Michigan averaged 6.2 yards per rush to App's 3.6. Most of the time, the team that has advantages in stats like that wins. But, that time, the team on the short end of the stats managed to eek out a two point win.

App State beating Michigan was outstanding. But it was a low probability event. Doesn't mean something like that can't happen again. But it's not likely.

[jcf5445]

The only reason I said MSU was a bad loss for Kentucky was because at the time the Bulldogs had lost 3 of their last four games. That game turned their season around.

That's fair enough. I guess at the time it was considered a bad loss.

[McNeese_beat]

Actually, on paper going in, I don't think this LSU team is regarded as being as good as that Michigan team was. I also think that the "speed" thing is way overblown. I think the Big 10 has plenty of speed. I think LSU does have more overall team speed than App does but I think Michigan did too.

But App State isn't going to sneak up on LSU. Also, App State won't have that track guy who caught that short pass and went the distance against Michigan and they won't have Lynch at safety.

Finally, things went right for App State in that Michigan game. They were outgained 479 to 387 in total yards. Michigan averaged 6.2 yards per rush to App's 3.6. Most of the time, the team that has advantages in stats like that wins. But, that time, the team on the short end of the stats managed to eek out a two point win.

App State beating Michigan was outstanding. But it was a low probability event. Doesn't mean something like that can't happen again. But it's not likely.

I think the SEC puts more speed on the field player for player. In the Big 10, so many teams play physical football, you are more likely to err on the side of physical players who can take on a fullback in the hole or who can deliver holes for 220 pound tailbacks. Even though top Big 10 teams always have speed in spots, it's almost never across the board, not so much because it isn't available, but because they build their teams to win in the Big 10 and not the SEC. Michigan may have had 3 of the fastest guys on the field against App, but the App offense is not designed to pick on the fast guy, it's designed to find, and pick on, the guy on the field who is NOT fast enough in space. In the SEC, the style of play forces you to err on the side of smaller, more agile players. So a spread team like App is not going to have as easy of a time to find a slow guy to pick on.

Perhaps Rich Rodriguez at Michigan will revolutionize that league and force the league to recruit more speed to match up with the spread offense he's bringing. But that will take time.

[Skjellyfetti]

Finally, things went right for App State in that Michigan game. They were outgained 479 to 387 in total yards. Michigan averaged 6.2 yards per rush to App's 3.6. Most of the time, the team that has advantages in stats like that wins. But, that time, the team on the short end of the stats managed to eek out a two point win.

100 of those yards and the difference in the yardage came on the 50 yard bomb to Manningham with 20 seconds left and the 50 yard run by Hart with 4 minutes left. I can't find stats for the first half... but App completely dominated it and scored 21 straight points. I don't know if you have watched the game but it was quite even with Appalachian controlling the first half and Michigan controlling the second. It was not a fluke.

[Lionsrking]

I think the SEC puts more speed on the field player for player. In the Big 10, so many teams play physical football, you are more likely to err on the side of physical players who can take on a fullback in the hole or who can deliver holes for 220 pound tailbacks. Even though top Big 10 teams always have speed in spots, it's almost never across the board, not so much because it isn't available, but because they build their teams to win in the Big 10 and not the SEC. Michigan may have had 3 of the fastest guys on the field against App, but the App offense is not designed to pick on the fast guy, it's designed to find, and pick on, the guy on the field who is NOT fast enough in space. In the SEC, the style of play forces you to err on the side of smaller, more agile players. So a spread team like App is not going to have as easy of a time to find a slow guy to pick on.

Perhaps Rich Rodriguez at Michigan will revolutionize that league and force the league to recruit more speed to match up with the spread offense he's bringing. But that will take time.

Very well put, though the way I view it is that the SEC typically has more "football speed" or game quickness, which probably speaks more to instincts than raw foot speed. It doesn't matter what the stopwatch says if you can process information quickly and have good first step quickness. Conversely, how often do we see guys who can fly in a workout, but have trouble figuring the game out. I think the SEC does a better job overall, of finding high energy, fast motor players with good football instincts, particularly at non-skill positions. In a nutshell, better "football players" tend to play the game faster, regardless of how they matchup on a stopwatch with inferior football players.

[elcid96]

SPEED


We neutralized Mich with our speed......much like SEC has neutralized the Big10 in last two NC's.....our strength is their strength as well.....

How did Florida (SEC) get neurtalized by Michigan (Big 10)?

[813Jag]

Why do people talk about the Michigan/Florida game like it was a blow out? Michigan scored twice in the last 5 minutes to win. Giving up 35 points is not neutralizing anybody.

[seantaylor]

Why do people talk about the Michigan/Florida game like it was a blow out? Michigan scored twice in the last 5 minutes to win. Giving up 35 points is not neutralizing anybody.

If you watched that game, Michigan DOMINATED. Michigan fumbled three times in the redzone. Florida didn't have any turnovers.

[Skjellyfetti]

If you watched that game, Michigan DOMINATED. Michigan fumbled three times in the redzone. Florida didn't have any turnovers.

I agree. Florida was pretty fortunate to make it close at the end, imo.

[813Jag]

If you watched that game, Michigan DOMINATED. Michigan fumbled three times in the redzone. Florida didn't have any turnovers.
3 turnovers or not they gave up 35 points and allowed Harvin to have his highest rushing total of the season. Michigan fumbled twice in the red zone (they fumbled 4 times and lost 2) and Florida missed to field goals early. Michigan was the better team that day and won as they should have, but when people talk about neutralizing a team, they usually don't score 35 points.

[Lionsrking]

If you watched that game, Michigan DOMINATED. Michigan fumbled three times in the redzone. Florida didn't have any turnovers.

Michigan didn't dominate. They outplayed Florida and deserved to win, but hardly "dominated." To dominate is to thoroughly control all aspects of the game, including the scoreboard. We throw that word around too loosely in my opinion.

[813Jag]

Michigan didn't dominate. They outplayed Florida and deserved to win, but hardly "dominated." To dominate is to thoroughly control all aspects of the game, including the scoreboard. We throw that word around too loosely in my opinion.
My point exactly, nobody gets dominated scoring 35 points, Michigan did to Florida what everybody that beat them did: That's push them around. The Gators were really young on D last season.

[phillyAPP]

How about this news !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last week The University of Wisconsin footbball coaching staff came to Boone ,NC to learn how to defend the spread offense and how the spread offense works.

FBS comes to BOOOONE ( FCS ) to learn some football !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[McNeese_beat]

How about this news !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last week The University of Wisconsin footbball coaching staff came to Boone ,NC to learn how to defend the spread offense and how the spread offense works.

FBS comes to BOOOONE ( FCS ) to learn some football !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They've got to defend Rich Rodriquez now...maybe we're seeing the transformation of the Big 10 from "power" league to "athletic" league.

[APPALACHIANstate]

How about this news !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last week The University of Wisconsin footbball coaching staff came to Boone ,NC to learn how to defend the spread offense and how the spread offense works.

FBS comes to BOOOONE ( FCS ) to learn some football !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, thats pretty neat! xthumbsupx

[hawkeye]

Why does everyone make this argument? LSU overlooked a 6-loss Kentucky team last year. Was Oklahoma State never upset when he coached them?

Why this statement, because App St. is not Kentucky and because of the Mich game last year. Let me be more direct. LSU faithful would fire Les Miles in the locker room after the game if he lost to any FCS school. As an LSU coach your a hero or a turd. There is no middle of the road.

[Skjellyfetti]

Why this statement, because App St. is not Kentucky and because of the Mich game last year. Let me be more direct. LSU faithful would fire Les Miles in the locker room after the game if he lost to any FCS school. As an LSU coach your a hero or a turd. There is no middle of the road.

You don't think the same is true at Michigan? They didn't fire him in the locker room... but it was a done deal. Lloyd had to have known if he lost to App his job was gone. Michigan has a more storied program than LSU (gasp!).

[DLS]

You don't think the same is true at Michigan? They didn't fire him in the locker room... but it was a done deal. Lloyd had to have known if he lost to App his job was gone. Michigan has a more storied program than LSU (gasp!).

careful

big brother will come and get you for saying such things.

[McNeese75]

You don't think the same is true at Michigan? They didn't fire him in the locker room... but it was a done deal. Lloyd had to have known if he lost to App his job was gone. Michigan has a more storied program than LSU (gasp!).

xlolx Maybe in the north xcoffeex

[Retro]

This will be an interesting year for LSU.. This team will be more of a reflection of Miles than Saban as it's Miles's 4th year. LSU got by in a few games last year and basically fell into the National Title game and that allowed them to get healthy and dominate as expected.. Dorsey will be really missed more than anyone.

That being said they have lost a lot of good players the last 2 years at key positions and losing RP only add's to the question at QB, which IMO was the best position they had coming back until his issues... I think the LSU team of this coming year will not be as good as the Michigan team of 2007 as when michigan lost to App, it crushed them and took a few games for them to play like the team they really were expected to be.. xrulesx

LSU should win this game in the trenches, but App will have the best QB on the field and if he can dictate the game early then App has a chance.. At the same time App has to not squander any chances LSU gives them nor fall behind early.. Once that happens, it's over. xbawlingx

Either way, it should be a very interesting game, i just hope we can see some of it before we put the Tar on their Heels!:D

[Skjellyfetti]

xlolx Maybe in the north xcoffeex

lol. I hate Michigan... but they have the most wins all time as well as win percentage. I believe they also have the most bowl victories. It's hard to argue against them.

I wouldn't even put LSU as tops in the South. I think Alabama has a pretty good claim to that.

[Retro]

I believe alabama has the most bowl appearances and victories at last check, so Bama is by far the tops in the south.. Texas is right there though also.

[McNeese75]

I believe alabama has the most bowl appearances and victories at last check, so Bama is by far the tops in the south.. Texas is right there though also.

Yeah, but your a Bama fan xlolx (I'm from Texas and still have a thing for the Horns so all's fair xthumbsupx )