Why UNCG Does Not Have Football

[TexasTerror]

An editorial from Allen Johnson on why UNCG does not have football. Not sure about his stats and figures, particularly as it relates to an athletic fee increase of over $300 for Charlotte. Lots of fingers pointed to issues with Charlotte as the reasoning behind no football at UNCG. Not a big fan of this one...

Allen Johnson: Why UNCG doesn’t have a football program – and why it doesn’t need one
Sunday, Jun. 8, 2008 3:00 am

Should there be helmets and shoulder pads in UNCG's future?

It's a tempting thought.

As someone who has taught there off and on, I've heard students grumble that the school lacks a football team -- and that a homecoming soccer game just doesn't cut it.

I've heard them call UNCG a "suitcase school" and suggest that college football could be the remedy.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080608/NRSTAFF/806080306

[PTW16]

UNCG should build a real basketball arena before they consider anything related to football...

[DFW HOYA]

For all the potential rewards of college football, it simply costs too much. A study released last week by UNC-Charlotte and presented by its chancellor, Phil Dubois, likely inflicted group heartburn, even in the eternally optimistic Queen City. The report found some "critical" costs not considered in an earlier study, including as much as $75 million for a new stadium, or $20 million for a renovated facility, plus $30 million for "an auxiliary building and practice fields." Then there are marketing costs ($1 million), a conference entry fee ($3 million) and operating costs ($1 million).


Will someone sound the BS alarm on such statistics? $3 million for a confernece entry fee? $75 million for a new stadium? Don't confuse UNCG with the BCS--the school could join the Big South or Pioneer for far less compared to these outlandish figures.

Funny, these "consultants" always point to the costs to compete at the top rather than the costs for a true start-up--are they paid on commssion?

[downbythebeach]

yeah really, are they talking about college football or the NFL?

[Mountaineer]

I'm not sure about G, but as for Charlotte - the numbers Dubois has been
quoting are certainly feasible. The 49ers want to field a team in 2012 and be at the FBS level by 2016. That'll take a substantial amount of funding.

If the Spartans were to ever get football I can see them spending much less to play at the FCS level. The female population is still over 60% at G and I'd be curious as to how many women want to shell out more in fees for a football team. xlolx

[ngineer]

My daughter got her Master's Degree from UNCG and so I got to visit a few times and was struck by the size of the school, but no football team. With NC A&T in the same city, a natural rivalry is right there, too. Their soccer stadium/baseball complex was very nice and could easily be adaptable to football. Plus, Greensboro is a very nice city. A nice place to visit.

[dbackjon]

My daughter got her Master's Degree from UNCG and so I got to visit a few times and was struck by the size of the school, but no football team. With NC A&T in the same city, a natural rivalry is right there, too. Their soccer stadium/baseball complex was very nice and could easily be adaptable to football. Plus, Greensboro is a very nice city. A nice place to visit.


I have never understood why so many states continue with separate HWU and HBCU's in the same town. The logical thing is to merge them like Tennessee did (Tennessee State and UT-Nashville).

[Mountaineer]

UNC G and A&T are significantly different enough in their missions and history that'd it'd be crazy to combine the two. Greensboro is big enough to support both, and it should. xnodx

[Eyes of Old Main]

If UNC-G wants football, then they'll have to pay like everyone else does. They certainly have enough students and alumni to make it work if they want to.

[Eyes of Old Main]

I have never understood why so many states continue with separate HWU and HBCU's in the same town. The logical thing is to merge them like Tennessee did (Tennessee State and UT-Nashville).

That would be assuming (in most cases) that the HBCU wants to be merged. From the HBCU fans that I have talked to, most are very proud of their schools the way they are and have no desire to have their situation change. While it might not make as much sense to run two public schools in the same city, a forced merge is going to create more problems than it will solve.

[IndianaAppMan]

Has anyone considered that there might be enough D-1 college football programs in North Carolina as it is? Having 5 FBS programs in one state that is growing but not exactly massive like California, Texas, or Florida has diluted the product. Over the past 30 years, each of the five FBS programs finishes in the Top 25 only on rare occassions. WFU's been good lately but was pathetic for decades prior to Jim Grobe. NCSU played very well w/ Phillip Rivers but was mediocre before and after. UNC was Top Ten when Mack Brown was there, but otherwise, their banner years have been 7-5. ECU is Top 25 maybe once every 5 years on average. Duke hasn't even been decent since 1994.

In the FCS, there's Western Carolina, App State, Winston-Salem State, NC A&T, Elon, and NC Central.

The last I checked, North Carolina isn't exactly the hotbed for high school football products the way the Florida, Texas, California, or Pennsylvania is. I would question how well a new program could draw new quality players, and if that would dilute the FCS product the way that having 5 FBS programs in North Carolina has.

My brother-in-law is a UNCG student. I know he doesn't speak for the whole university, but I've never gotten the impression from him that students there give a rip that there's no football. Many of them take the short trip over to NCSU or UNC on game days, and I doubt their loyalties would suddenly vanish even if their own school got football.

[Mountaineer]

Has anyone considered that there might be enough D-1 college football programs in North Carolina as it is?

Exactly the reason I'm not going to be heartbroken if Charlotte and Greensboro never get a team off the ground. xnodx

On the Division I level there are 14 teams playing football - 9 FCS and 5 FBS. That's plenty for a state with our population.

[mainejeff]

Doesn't every D-1 school in North Carolina (and Virginia) have football? xrolleyesx

[Mountaineer]

Doesn't every D-1 school in North Carolina (and Virginia) have football? xrolleyesx

You forgot your xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex.

xlolx

Considering the current discussion of two Division I schools who presently do not sponsor football the answer would be no.

xdizzyx

[IndianaAppMan]

On the Division I level there are 14 teams playing football - 9 FCS and 5 FBS. That's plenty for a state with our population.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Campbell, Davidson, and Gardner-Webb. Thanks!xthumbsupx

Couldn't agree with you more! 14 is enough. The quality is diluted enough, with one APPsolutely huge exception xsmiley_wix !

Okay, maybe Elon's gotten pretty good too.xnodx

[DFW HOYA]

Doesn't every D-1 school in North Carolina (and Virginia) have football?

In 2008 there will be 14 D-I football schools in NC: UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, ECU, App State, Davidson, Gardner-Webb, NCA&T, Winston-Salem State, Western Carolina, Campbell, Elon, and NC Central. Only five (UNC-G, UNC-Ashevile, UNC-W, Charlotte, and High Point) do not play the sport.

[CID1990]

I certainly think UNCG should start football. Either that, or get the **** out of the SoCon.

[hapapp]

In 2008 there will be 14 D-I football schools in NC: UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, ECU, App State, Davidson, Gardner-Webb, NCA&T, Winston-Salem State, Western Carolina, Campbell, Elon, and NC Central. Only five (UNC-G, UNC-Ashevile, UNC-W, Charlotte, and High Point) do not play the sport.

In Virginia, Radford, VCU, George Mason, and Longwood do not play football. Neither does ODU, though they will be in the near future.

[UAalum72]

Will someone sound the BS alarm on such statistics? $3 million for a confernece entry fee? $75 million for a new stadium? Don't confuse UNCG with the BCS--the school could join the Big South or Pioneer for far less compared to these outlandish figures.

Funny, these "consultants" always point to the costs to compete at the top rather than the costs for a true start-up--are they paid on commssion?
No, but I've noticed that when the admin likely doesn't want football, the consultant always adds up all the costs over 5-10 years of a startup plus 30 years for a stadium and gives the total to give the impression you'd have to pay a lump sum up front.

[gophoenix]

Has anyone considered that there might be enough D-1 college football programs in North Carolina as it is? Having 5 FBS programs in one state that is growing but not exactly massive like California, Texas, or Florida has diluted the product. Over the past 30 years, each of the five FBS programs finishes in the Top 25 only on rare occassions. WFU's been good lately but was pathetic for decades prior to Jim Grobe. NCSU played very well w/ Phillip Rivers but was mediocre before and after. UNC was Top Ten when Mack Brown was there, but otherwise, their banner years have been 7-5. ECU is Top 25 maybe once every 5 years on average. Duke hasn't even been decent since 1994.

In the FCS, there's Western Carolina, App State, Winston-Salem State, NC A&T, Elon, and NC Central.

The last I checked, North Carolina isn't exactly the hotbed for high school football products the way the Florida, Texas, California, or Pennsylvania is. I would question how well a new program could draw new quality players, and if that would dilute the FCS product the way that having 5 FBS programs in North Carolina has.

My brother-in-law is a UNCG student. I know he doesn't speak for the whole university, but I've never gotten the impression from him that students there give a rip that there's no football. Many of them take the short trip over to NCSU or UNC on game days, and I doubt their loyalties would suddenly vanish even if their own school got football.

I'm not going to shun any school wanting to start football. But you're right. NC may be saturated for in state recruiting. Not sure it is fair to add the private schools in because they recruit heavy out of state too. But having UNC, NC state, ECU, App, A&T, WSSU, NCCU, WCU, ECSU, FSU and UNCP all recruiting with scholarship offers to for D-II and up and all against one another has to be a problem especially when you add in the sheer number of private schools like Duke, Wake, Elon, Davidson, Campbell, G-W along with the SAC-8 and CIAA schools offerring to some of the same people..... it is really mind blowing the number of unis fighting over recruits now.

[IndianaAppMan]

I'm not going to shun any school wanting to start football. But you're right. NC may be saturated for in state recruiting. Not sure it is fair to add the private schools in because they recruit heavy out of state too. But having UNC, NC state, ECU, App, A&T, WSSU, NCCU, WCU, ECSU, FSU and UNCP all recruiting with scholarship offers to for D-II and up and all against one another has to be a problem especially when you add in the sheer number of private schools like Duke, Wake, Elon, Davidson, Campbell, G-W along with the SAC-8 and CIAA schools offerring to some of the same people..... it is really mind blowing the number of unis fighting over recruits now.

How about that?! We're agreeing on some stuff for a change!xthumbsupx

Heck, if UNCC or UNCG prove themselves capable of starting up a football program that could actually be a success, more power to them. App State (and anyone else, for that matter) need not feel threatened, but it would dilute recruiting efforts across the board. Look at what it does to the 4 ACC schools. As I understand it, App State does a good portion of its recruiting outside of NC as it is.

[gophoenix]

How about that?! We're agreeing on some stuff for a change!xthumbsupx

Heck, if UNCC or UNCG prove themselves capable of starting up a football program that could actually be a success, more power to them. App State (and anyone else, for that matter) need not feel threatened, but it would dilute recruiting efforts across the board. Look at what it does to the 4 ACC schools. As I understand it, App State does a good portion of its recruiting outside of NC as it is.

We can agree. :D All the public vs private stuff is tongue in cheek. I just say it to make people think. Not all private school people are rich, spoiled snobs. And not all public school people are are hard working people just trying to get through life normally. Both types are at both places. The rest is just a political argument that is fun sometimes. Heck, of the people I know that went to App, 5 of the 10 of them had some relative completely pay for their schooling.

With that...

UNCC might work, they could own that market. But UNCG fighting with Elon, WSSU, A&T, Wake and the Triangle ACC schools directly. I have trouble seeing a true scholarship team starting and working there. UNCG is such a commuter school. I mean, look at their basketball, soccer and baseball attendance during good seasons. Those artsy folks could care less about football. Besides, not sure if a football stadium could be built in their "free speech zone" .... the games would be awfully quiet xlolx

[BearsCountry]

Isnt UNCG more of a female school and dont they have a big theater department? I remember talking to someone who went to school there and it seemed like they werent exactly a school that football would fit in well at.

[IndianaAppMan]

Isnt UNCG more of a female school and dont they have a big theater department? I remember talking to someone who went to school there and it seemed like they werent exactly a school that football would fit in well at.

Females outnumber males maybe 60/40. (BTW, at College of Charleston, when my brother was there females outnumbered males 7 to 1. He was in hog heaven!) Anyway, UNCG is pretty artsy. My bro-in-law's majoring in music business there & loves G'boro's music scene (it's not bad for North Carolina, but it's no Austin, Texas). I've never gotten the impression that anybody is disappointed not to have football, but I can't speak for the rest of UNCG.

[BearsCountry]

UNCG is pretty artsy.

That was the word I was looking for.

I guess the female thing isnt that big of a deal for a football school, look at UNI.

[gophoenix]

Isnt UNCG more of a female school and dont they have a big theater department? I remember talking to someone who went to school there and it seemed like they werent exactly a school that football would fit in well at.

Yes, what IndianaAppMan said. Higher female population doesn't matter. Take a look at Furman, Elon or Wake Forest for proof of that. It is the huge artsy scene that does. Everyone I have met from UNCG in the past 5 years was either a part time MBA student or a Music/Theatre major for undergrad.

[WileECoyote06]

I'm not going to shun any school wanting to start football. But you're right. NC may be saturated for in state recruiting. Not sure it is fair to add the private schools in because they recruit heavy out of state too. But having UNC, NC state, ECU, App, A&T, WSSU, NCCU, WCU, ECSU, FSU and UNCP all recruiting with scholarship offers to for D-II and up and all against one another has to be a problem especially when you add in the sheer number of private schools like Duke, Wake, Elon, Davidson, Campbell, G-W along with the SAC-8 and CIAA schools offerring to some of the same people..... it is really mind blowing the number of unis fighting over recruits now.

Exactly. There are more than 30 football-sponsoring institutions in NC; already too many.

I kind of hope Charlotte remains a non-football school. Charlotte is one of the best recruiting hotbeds in the state; especially for FCS, DII and DIII. If they seal off the Metrolina recruiting borders. . . xsmhx

[blazrdog#1]

I've watched Samford,B'ham Southern,UAB,USA,Troy & JSwho make various moves in the football world lately.If UNCG wants a program then let them go for it.

[g-webb1994]

Also, you have to consider that schools such as Wingate and Lenoir-Rhyne in the near future might want to move up to FCS level as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the problem here is one of scope - and one of the unfortunate repercussions of this 'we-are-all-DI' mentality.

In North Carolina, there are a ton of D-I schools, true. But if you separate by FBS/FCS full-scholly/FCS non-scholly, it's quite different:

FBS:
UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Duke, ECU.

FCS full-scholly:
App State, WCU, Elon, Gardner-Webb, WSSU, NC A&T, NCC.

FBS non-scholly:
Davidson, Campbell.

These schools all have very different missions for their schools and football programs - you could even break off NC A&T, WSSU and NCC and argue that the HBCU is a different subdivision too.

That would mean UNCG would be the fifth FCS full-scholly team to join in the state and the fourth NC school for the SoCon. When you put it that way, and consider that travel to UNCG wouldn't be too bad for the SoCon, it makes a lot more sense.

What is crazy are schools like UNCC who plan to jump to FBS sooner rather than later, without a conference to play for AND no support for a football team or a big donor who is hell-bent to add it. However, UNCC might be able to survive quite well as an FCS school and more modest dreams.

I don't put much stock in "local recruitment battles in the state of NC". I think most NC schools are intelligent enough to go into SC, Virginia, Florida, Tennessee...

[IndianaAppMan]

These schools all have very different missions for their schools and football programs - you could even break off NC A&T, WSSU and NCC and argue that the HBCU is a different subdivision too.

What is crazy are schools like UNCC who plan to jump to FBS sooner rather than later, without a conference to play for AND no support for a football team or a big donor who is hell-bent to add it. However, UNCC might be able to survive quite well as an FCS school and more modest dreams.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the HBCU's are like a different subdivision. The MEAC still has an auto birth in the playoffs. It might not be a powerhouse in the playoffs like some other conferences but it's still legit FCS like others.

I get the impression that if the proverbial powers-that-be at UNCC are determined that if the do get football, then they want to go to FBS ASAP. UNCC probably wants to follow the model of USF, UCF, and FAU (and not FIU, of coursexthumbsupx ). In other words, they don't want to "go," in their eyes, unless they "go all out" the way that these newer programs have done. They'll argue that the big market of Charlotte would help UNCC the same way that Tampa did for USF, Orlando did for UCF, and Ft. Lauderdale did for FAU. Other programs with existing FCS teams who might consider switching to FCS, like Ga. Southern, JMU, or App State, wouldn't have that kind of big market advantage that UNCC or Ga. State would, but the would have winning and tradition on their side.

Of course, I think all that is moot because the solid backing needed for football at UNCC just isn't there.

[813Jag]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the HBCU's are like a different subdivision. The MEAC still has an auto birth in the playoffs. It might not be a powerhouse in the playoffs like some other conferences but it's still legit FCS like others.

I get the impression that if the proverbial powers-that-be at UNCC are determined that if the do get football, then they want to go to FBS ASAP. UNCC probably wants to follow the model of USF, UCF, and FAU (and not FIU, of coursexthumbsupx ). In other words, they don't want to "go," in their eyes, unless they "go all out" the way that these newer programs have done. They'll argue that the big market of Charlotte would help UNCC the same way that Tampa did for USF, Orlando did for UCF, and Ft. Lauderdale did for FAU. Other programs with existing FCS teams who might consider switching to FCS, like Ga. Southern, JMU, or App State, wouldn't have that kind of big market advantage that UNCC or Ga. State would, but the would have winning and tradition on their side.

Of course, I think all that is moot because the solid backing needed for football at UNCC just isn't there.
USF/Tampa is a battle still being fought. IMO, it looks like Orlando is backing UCF better.

[Appaholic]

In Virginia, Radford, VCU, George Mason, and Longwood do not play football. Neither does ODU, though they will be in the near future.


nor VMI.....xwhistlex

[IndianaAppMan]

USF/Tampa is a battle still being fought. IMO, it looks like Orlando is backing UCF better.

Living in the TB area, you would know better than I would. Still, my point is that, from a television and general marketing standpoint, Tampa is able to serve USF better than Harrisonburg would for JMU, Statesboro/Savannah for Ga. Southern, or Boone/(Who? Winston? G'boro? Charlotte????) for App State.

I bet Tampa is still dominated by UF/FSU/the Bucs. USF has a long-term battle to fight to capture the hearts of those fans; then again, it's already caught the eyes of many talented football players.

The Panthers have had the same problem in the Carolinas. Going into their 14th season, many people are still loyal first to the Cowboys and other teams from across the US.

Nothing's impossible, but I would expect a whole host of universities (UNCC, ETSU, Winthrop, & North Florida, to name a few) before UNCG would even take a serious look at it.

[IndianaAppMan]

nor VMI.....xwhistlex

Ha!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Appaholic]

That was the word I was looking for.

I guess the female thing isnt that big of a deal for a football school, look at UNI.

UNCG.....where the women are women and so are the men.....grew up in G'boro and we used to pick on the school in that manner......has grown alot since I was younger, but has never been "hot" for football......already have Guilford, NC A&T, and Greensboro College w/ Football programs within city limits, Elon 30mins away, and a large population of App, ECU and Big 4 grads.......football at UNCG would need to be on the Davidson level....could not compete IMO.....

[citdog]

Ha!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

seems like i remember the 'kangaroo gayboys" coming to boone and beating app when it really mattered.

[IndianaAppMan]

seems like i remember the 'kangaroo gayboys" coming to boone and beating app when it really mattered.

Huh? Are you talking about UNCG basketball? That post was about VMI.

[citdog]

Huh? Are you talking about UNCG basketball? That post was about VMI.

VMI's mascot is a kangaroo

[Appaholic]

seems like i remember the 'kangaroo gayboys" coming to boone and beating app when it really mattered.

and I remember the bellhops beating VMI alot when it didn't matter.....as it seldom does when these two service academy flunkies meet on a field of battle......

[Appaholic]

(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)

(*crickets chirping as Citdog walks off into the sunset dejected dragging the a tattered BonnieBlew flag on the ground......unable, yet again, to match wits with Appaholic nor dispute how, outside of his mind, unimportant citadel is in the grand scheme of life......or in )

[citdog]

and I remember the bellhops beating VMI alot when it didn't matter.....as it seldom does when these two service academy flunkies meet on a field of battle......

at least one can "take a yosef" at our stadiumsxnodx xnodx

[IndianaAppMan]

VMI beat App State a few times a long time ago. Big deal. What have they done lately? Nada. Virginia beats FSU about once every ten years. Do you think FSU is that bothered? UVA can take one win, and FSU will take the other nine.

Same for App State. They've won three straight national titles. Would the 2 losses last year been nice not to have? Sure, but I'm happier with the championship than I would be in Wofford's or Ga. Southern's shoes.

I apologize for this drifting towards smack, but I was not the instigator.

What does anyone else think about UNCG & football?

[gophoenix]

UNCG.....where the women are women and so are the men.....grew up in G'boro and we used to pick on the school in that manner......has grown alot since I was younger, but has never been "hot" for football......already have Guilford, NC A&T, and Greensboro College w/ Football programs within city limits, Elon 30mins away, and a large population of App, ECU and Big 4 grads.......football at UNCG would need to be on the Davidson level....could not compete IMO.....

Believe it or not, there are more Virginia Tech grads in the Triad than any other school. But with them added, you are right. There are so many choices for the locals that it isn't even funny.

[Appaholic]

at least one can "take a yosef" at our stadiumsxnodx xnodx

I just "took a yosef" myself.......look for it floating in the Ashley tomorrow morning....

El Cid

0-1 in Civil War
0-1 in the Faulkner Wars.........xwhistlex

[citdog]

I just "took a yosef" myself.......look for it floating in the Ashley tomorrow morning....

El Cid

0-1 in Civil War
0-1 in the Faulkner Wars.........xwhistlex


app state


0-0 in all wars......fled to canada

[IndianaAppMan]

app state


0-0 in all wars......fled to canada

Yeah, that makes sense. xrolleyesx

[citdog]

Yeah, that makes sense. xrolleyesx


HIPPies don't fight. they run away. tell the app chicks to shave their pits and call me

[IndianaAppMan]

HIPPies don't fight. they run away. tell the app chicks to shave their pits and call me

It's funny how you hate it when "your people" get stereotyped as racists, yet you stereotype every other group that is not part of your own. xeyebrowx

I know for a fact that not all Citadel alumni hate the entire Northeast; therefore, I don't write them off that way. You, however label all of Appalachian State based on a small minority. xwhistlex

[appsfan]

VMI beat App State a few times a long time ago. Big deal. What have they done lately? Nada. Virginia beats FSU about once every ten years. Do you think FSU is that bothered? UVA can take one win, and FSU will take the other nine.

Same for App State. They've won three straight national titles. Would the 2 losses last year been nice not to have? Sure, but I'm happier with the championship than I would be in Wofford's or Ga. Southern's shoes.

I apologize for this drifting towards smack, but I was not the instigator.

What does anyone else think about UNCG & football?

As I have said on this board before, UNCG will NOT have football. The AD is happy with the status quo, the University was the Women's College of the University of NC until '63 (means very few big boosters who could support a football start up,) and Greensboro is the home of the ACC. While UNCG does have a theatre program, it is more noted for the following schools:Business, Music, Education, and Nursing. It has been a doctoral granting institution longer than all other UNC Schools except UNC and NC State. IMO, with such roots to its Women's College days, there is no support for football. As an UNCG alum who married into ASU, I wouldn't support an effort to add football.

[gophoenix]

I think the problem here is one of scope - and one of the unfortunate repercussions of this 'we-are-all-DI' mentality.

In North Carolina, there are a ton of D-I schools, true. But if you separate by FBS/FCS full-scholly/FCS non-scholly, it's quite different:

FBS:
UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Duke, ECU.

FCS full-scholly:
App State, WCU, Elon, Gardner-Webb, WSSU, NC A&T, NCC.

FBS non-scholly:
Davidson, Campbell.

These schools all have very different missions for their schools and football programs - you could even break off NC A&T, WSSU and NCC and argue that the HBCU is a different subdivision too.

That would mean UNCG would be the fifth FCS full-scholly team to join in the state and the fourth NC school for the SoCon. When you put it that way, and consider that travel to UNCG wouldn't be too bad for the SoCon, it makes a lot more sense.

What is crazy are schools like UNCC who plan to jump to FBS sooner rather than later, without a conference to play for AND no support for a football team or a big donor who is hell-bent to add it. However, UNCC might be able to survive quite well as an FCS school and more modest dreams.

I don't put much stock in "local recruitment battles in the state of NC". I think most NC schools are intelligent enough to go into SC, Virginia, Florida, Tennessee...

See, I disagree, I think you have to show all scholarship teams to really get a picture of how much we all fight over recruits.

FBS:
UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Duke, ECU.

FCS full-scholly:
App State, WCU, Elon, Gardner-Webb, WSSU, NC A&T, NCC.

FBS non-scholly:
Davidson, Campbell.

D-II scholly:
UNCP, Brevard, Catawba, Lenoir-Rhyne, Mars Hill, Wingate, Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Chowan, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, Shaw, St. Augustine's

And for kicks....
D-III:
Guilford, Greensboro, Methodist, NC Wesleyan

So adding in UNCC and possibly High Point (non-schollie) really adds to a good many schools with football already here. Where in the world would UNCG fit in for fans in the middle of all of this????

[813Jag]

Living in the TB area, you would know better than I would. Still, my point is that, from a television and general marketing standpoint, Tampa is able to serve USF better than Harrisonburg would for JMU, Statesboro/Savannah for Ga. Southern, or Boone/(Who? Winston? G'boro? Charlotte????) for App State.

I bet Tampa is still dominated by UF/FSU/the Bucs. USF has a long-term battle to fight to capture the hearts of those fans; then again, it's already caught the eyes of many talented football players.

The Panthers have had the same problem in the Carolinas. Going into their 14th season, many people are still loyal first to the Cowboys and other teams from across the US.

Nothing's impossible, but I would expect a whole host of universities (UNCC, ETSU, Winthrop, & North Florida, to name a few) before UNCG would even take a serious look at it.
This is how I feel, last year the city embraced USF as they climbed up the rankings, when they lost 3 in a row that support fell off. But the city doesn't have any loyalty to them since their main goal is $$$. And I say this because there was a battle between USF and the Tampa Sports Authority over Raymond James Stadium. The TSA allowed the ACC title game to come to town on the same weekend USF and E$PN had a home game scheduled. They comprimised but it wasn't pretty.

This is a Gator town no doubt about that, and the kids that play high school ball know that too. USF could do a better job showing interest in local players. But that's another subject.

[OL FU]

I know for a fact that not all Citadel alumni hate the entire Northeast; therefore, I don't write them off that way. . xwhistlex

xeyebrowx Really, do you think we could get one them to attend the U-SCAGS meetingxconfusedx

[IndianaAppMan]

xeyebrowx Really, do you think we could get one them to attend the U-SCAGS meetingxconfusedx

Probably not. They're not die-hard football fans.

[Appaholic]

HIPPies don't fight. they run away. tell the app chicks to shave their pits and call me

Ya'll better stick with women you can handle......or not (sorry :o )

[IndianaAppMan]

I don't know if there's anything else to add to this thread. It seems there's a consesus from everyone that UNCG is very, very unlikely to get football due to lack of interest. In fact, I don't know if ANYONE has said UNCG would be a good fit for a start-up FB program.

Does anyone disagree?

[AshevilleApp2]

I don't know if there's anything else to add to this thread. It seems there's a consesus from everyone that UNCG is very, very unlikely to get football due to lack of interest. In fact, I don't know if ANYONE has said UNCG would be a good fit for a start-up FB program.

Does anyone disagree?

You'll likely get more debate if you pose the question as to whether UNCG (or Davidson, or C of C) should be allowed to stay a member of the Southern Conference if it doesn't field a football team.

[OL FU]

You'll likely get more debate if you pose the question as to whether UNCG (or Davidson, or C of C) should be allowed to stay a member of the Southern Conference if it doesn't field a football team.

Answer: KICK 'EM OUTxnodx

[IndianaAppMan]

You'll likely get more debate if you pose the question as to whether UNCG (or Davidson, or C of C) should be allowed to stay a member of the Southern Conference if it doesn't field a football team.

Yeah, but for all the debate we have about that, it won't change the minds of the college presidents of SoCon schools. Personally, I don't mind those three schools being in the SoCon. Here's my reasons:
1. Davidson gave our conference tons of exposure this March.
2. The geography of CofC, UNCG, & Davidson makes perfect sense, and there are few FCS programs within the SoCon's footprint that don't have cozy conference homes anyway.
3. With 9 football teams in the SoCon, every team plays every other team w/ 4 home & 4 away.
4. With 12 basketball teams, it makes for a great balance w/ 6 teams in each division.
5. These schools fit in well as peer institutions for other SoCon schools.
6. I'm a bit biased, too, since I have family connections to UNCG & CofC.

[AshevilleApp2]

Yeah, but for all the debate we have about that, it won't change the minds of the college presidents of SoCon schools. Personally, I don't mind those three schools being in the SoCon. Here's my reasons:
1. Davidson gave our conference tons of exposure this March.
2. The geography of CofC, UNCG, & Davidson makes perfect sense, and there are few FCS programs within the SoCon's footprint that don't have cozy conference homes anyway.
3. With 9 football teams in the SoCon, every team plays every other team w/ 4 home & 4 away.
4. With 12 basketball teams, it makes for a great balance w/ 6 teams in each division.
5. These schools fit in well as peer institutions for other SoCon schools.
6. I'm a bit biased, too, since I have family connections to UNCG & CofC.

Good response. I'll leave the rebuttal to OL FU.

[APPALACHIANstate]

Yeah, but for all the debate we have about that, it won't change the minds of the college presidents of SoCon schools. Personally, I don't mind those three schools being in the SoCon. Here's my reasons:
1. Davidson gave our conference tons of exposure this March.
2. The geography of CofC, UNCG, & Davidson makes perfect sense, and there are few FCS programs within the SoCon's footprint that don't have cozy conference homes anyway.
3. With 9 football teams in the SoCon, every team plays every other team w/ 4 home & 4 away.
4. With 12 basketball teams, it makes for a great balance w/ 6 teams in each division.
5. These schools fit in well as peer institutions for other SoCon schools.
6. I'm a bit biased, too, since I have family connections to UNCG & CofC.

Good points.

[IndianaAppMan]

By the way, does anyone know what the divisional alignment will be in basketball now that Samford in?
This is a guess. Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

North: Western, App, UNCG, Elon, Davidson, UTC

South: Ga. Southern, The Citadel, CofC, Samford, Furman, Wofford

Maybe UTC & Samford would be in the same division?

[Millwoch]

Yeah, but for all the debate we have about that, it won't change the minds of the college presidents of SoCon schools. Personally, I don't mind those three schools being in the SoCon. Here's my reasons:
1. Davidson gave our conference tons of exposure this March.
2. The geography of CofC, UNCG, & Davidson makes perfect sense, and there are few FCS programs within the SoCon's footprint that don't have cozy conference homes anyway.
3. With 9 football teams in the SoCon, every team plays every other team w/ 4 home & 4 away.
4. With 12 basketball teams, it makes for a great balance w/ 6 teams in each division.
5. These schools fit in well as peer institutions for other SoCon schools.
6. I'm a bit biased, too, since I have family connections to UNCG & CofC.

I heard there was some discussion @ the socon meetings 2 weeks ago that they should set the basketball schedule up more like the ACC. This would free up some games for more out of conference games and allow the SOCON to increase its strength of schedule as well as increase revenue. I know that Davidson and The Citadel would rather set up the schedule that way(play the teams in your division twice and out of division once.) Not sure what was decided?

[CID1990]

WHAT IS THIS BASKETBALL YOU PEOPLE TALK ABOUT?

THE SOCON IS A FOOTBALL CONFERENCE.

COFC, UNCG, AND DAVIDSON ARE ALL LAUGHING AT OUR STUPID ASSES FOR LETTING THEM INTO THE CONFERENCE WITHOUT FORCING THEM TO DIE UGLY DEATHS ON OUR FOOTBALL FIELDS IN THE FALL.

[IndianaAppMan]

WHAT IS THIS BASKETBALL YOU PEOPLE TALK ABOUT?

THE SOCON IS A FOOTBALL CONFERENCE.

COFC, UNCG, AND DAVIDSON ARE ALL LAUGHING AT OUR STUPID ASSES FOR LETTING THEM INTO THE CONFERENCE WITHOUT FORCING THEM TO DIE UGLY DEATHS ON OUR FOOTBALL FIELDS IN THE FALL.

I don't think they're laughing at us. I think they're envious that we have football (or GOOD football, in Davidson's case) and they don't.

The SoCon is known for football first, but having these other schools in the SoCon is what's best for the 19 other sports. AD's and presidents have to serve the best interests of all their teams, and they feel that a 12-team conference for the non-football teams is best for them, then let's be glad that they aren't blinded by serving almighty football and nothing else. Besides, having CofC, UNCG, & Davidson in the SoCon doesn't do a thing to hurt SoCon football.

[OL FU]

Good response. I'll leave the rebuttal to OL FU.

I really don't have that strong of an opinion. It is just fun to be hard nosed every once in a while. I do think that not playing football creates an unfair competitive advantage for other sports, basketball in particular.

The other problem I have with it is that even though CofC is typically a good basketball program, I rely on the football rivalries to get my blood flowing for the other sports. CofC and UNC -G just don't motivate any particular dislike other than they fact that they don't play football. But I do understand why they are in the conference.

Davidson is another issue. They have always been good in basketball and over the last thirty years pretty muched owned FU. But that was ok because I knew when football season rolled around the ass kicking they would get on the football field would more than offset whatever they accomplished on the basketball field. The other thing that is so upsetting about Davidson football is that they do play. Davidson is a college very similar to 2 good football programs in the SoCon and that would be Furman and Wofford. If Furman and Wofford can pull it off then why does Davidson have to pu**y out and play in the PFL. Stand up like men and take your ass kicking in the SoCon. xrolleyesx xmadx

[OL FU]

By the way, does anyone know what the divisional alignment will be in basketball now that Samford in?
This is a guess. Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

North: Western, App, UNCG, Elon, Davidson, UTC

South: Ga. Southern, The Citadel, CofC, Samford, Furman, Wofford

Maybe UTC & Samford would be in the same division?

I have heard rumors that Samford will be in the north with UTC

[OL FU]

I don't think they're laughing at us. I think they're envious that we have football (or GOOD football, in Davidson's case) and they don't.

The SoCon is known for football first, but having these other schools in the SoCon is what's best for the 19 other sports. AD's and presidents have to serve the best interests of all their teams, and they feel that a 12-team conference for the non-football teams is best for them, then let's be glad that they aren't blinded by serving almighty football and nothing else. Besides, having CofC, UNCG, & Davidson in the SoCon doesn't do a thing to hurt SoCon football.


I explained the problem with Davidson below. Please remember Davidson has been in the SoCon as long as The Citadel and Furman have. They are pu**iesxnodx

[OL FU]

Anybody ever seen a Davidson fan on this boardxlolx

[IndianaAppMan]

I do think that not playing football creates an unfair competitive advantage for other sports, basketball in particular.

The other problem I have with... CofC is... I rely on the football rivalries to get my blood flowing for the other sports. CofC and UNC -G just don't motivate any particular dislike other than they fact that they don't play football. But I do understand why they are in the conference.

Davidson is another issue. They have always been good in basketball and over the last thirty years pretty muched owned FU. But that was ok because I knew when football season rolled around the ass kicking they would get on the football field would more than offset whatever they accomplished on the basketball field. The other thing that is so upsetting about Davidson football is that they do play. Davidson is a college very similar to 2 good football programs in the SoCon and that would be Furman and Wofford. If Furman and Wofford can pull it off then why does Davidson have to pu**y out and play in the PFL. Stand up like men and take your ass kicking in the SoCon. xrolleyesx xmadx

I have heard rumors that Samford will be in the north with UTC

It's easy for me to get up for UNCG & CofC because of family rivalry (bro is alum of CofC; bro-in-law is student @ UNCG), and Davidson is always the biggest game of the year.

If don't have a huge distaste for CofC or UNCG because you don't see them in football season, you still should be able to get excited about playing them simply because they're SoCon. For example, despite the fact that NC State and Maryland played each other for 70 years, there's still not much animosity towards each other, but their fans can still get excited to play each other because they're ACC. Not every game can be a rivalry game.

It's Davidson's loss that they're Pioneer League instead of SoCon in football, not Furman's or App's or any other SoCon football team. They know that non-scholly reduces quality of play, but they do it anyway. That's their call. I don't think it would be wise to "force" Davidson to be SoCon in all sports because if they're determined not to offer scholly's in football, they'd leave the SoCon and take their positive SoCon basketball reputation with them.

This is not based on any factual knowledge, just my interpretation... I get the impression that Davidson wants to recognized as a Patriot League quality school (i.e., Ivy League-level undergraduate academics but with very little emphasis on graduate programs). To their credit, their ranked right up there among the finest liberal arts schools in the country. Maybe there's a belief that having Division 1 football, but with no scholly's, will help them with that rep, since that's what Patriot League schools do. Who knows?

Now if that is Davidson's line of thinking, they are definitely mistaken. Furman and Wofford are very, very close to Davidson's rep in academics (going by US News Rankings), and their scholarship football programs certainly do nothing to hurt their academics. For that matter, my wife's alma mater, Elon, is also gaining respect rapidly on a national level, and I'd bet football has only helped them. As for Samford, I know very little about them.

I guess we shall see soon enough what the divisional alignment will be.

[OL FU]

It's easy for me to get up for UNCG & CofC because of family rivalry (bro is alum of CofC; bro-in-law is student @ UNCG), and Davidson is always the biggest game of the year.



It's Davidson's loss that they're Pioneer League instead of SoCon in football, not Furman's or App's or any other SoCon football team. They know that non-scholly reduces quality of play, but they do it anyway. That's their call. I don't think it would be wise to "force" Davidson to be SoCon in all sports because if they're determined not to offer scholly's in football, they'd leave the SoCon and take their positive SoCon basketball reputation with them.

This is not based on any factual knowledge, just my interpretation... I get the impression that Davidson wants to recognized as a Patriot League quality school (i.e., Ivy League-level undergraduate academics but with very little emphasis on graduate programs). To their credit, their ranked right up there among the finest liberal arts schools in the country. Maybe there's a belief that having Division 1 football, but with no scholly's, will help them with that rep, since that's what Patriot League schools do. Who knows?

Now if that is Davidson's line of thinking, they are definitely mistaken. Furman and Wofford are very, very close to Davidson's rep in academics (going by US News Rankings), and their scholarship football programs certainly do nothing to hurt their academics. For that matter, my wife's alma mater, Elon, is also gaining respect rapidly on a national level, and I'd bet football has only helped them. As for Samford, I know very little about them.

I guess we shall see soon enough what the divisional alignment will be.

It may be Davidson's loss and not ours but Davidson is a long time SoCon rival back to the 30's. I like beating them in football to make up for getting it handed to us in basketball.

As far as Davidson's academic ratings and the PL, weren't they in the PL for a year or two. Davidson's academic ratings are not significantly higher than Furman's. If Davidson wants to be in the PL, then why did they rejoin the SoCon.

[IndianaAppMan]

It may be Davidson's loss and not ours but Davidson is a long time SoCon rival back to the 30's. I like beating them in football to make up for getting it handed to us in basketball.

Revenge in sports is always sweet! xthumbsupx


As far as Davidson's academic ratings and the PL, weren't they in the PL for a year or two. Davidson's academic ratings are not significantly higher than Furman's. If Davidson wants to be in the PL, then why did they rejoin the SoCon.

I have no idea whether Davidson was ever Patriot League.

Oh, man, don't get me wrong. I'm from Greenville and I have had many friends who went to Furman. I know how good a school Furman is. It's very close in quality to Davidson (so is Wofford). I used to hear professors from my church say that Furman wanted to be the "Harvard of the South." (I think that an ambition that would make more sense would be the "Amherst College of the South," but I digress.) Heck, I would love to see Furman's academics to surpass Davidson in national recognition. Then maybe when Indiana people talk to me, they'll say, "Greenville? Hey, that's where Furman is, right?" instead of "Greenville? Hey, that's where that crazy right-wing school is, right?" [Bob Jones].

I won't pretend that my alma mater is close to Davidson, but that's no problem because it's not the school's mission.xthumbsupx

You know how Stanford, clearly, has every bit as top-notch a university as any given Ivy League school, but it has no reason or interest to be in the Ivy League? I'm just saying that, as an analogy, maybe Davidson wants to be to the Patriot League what Stanford is to the Ivy League: a peer but not a member. That's going by the contention that the Ivy League has, by reputation, the most elite conference of research universities in the country, and that the Patriot League has, by reputation, the most elite conference of liberal arts universities in the country. Yes, I know there might be exception in the PL with a few research institutions instead of liberal arts, but you get my point.

What's ironic is that, if that is that what Davidson is thinking, it should take notice from Stanford, Furman, and Wofford: the offering or non-offering of scholarships to your football team has little to do with the reputation of your academics.

[OL FU]

Revenge in sports is always sweet! xthumbsupx



I have no idea whether Davidson was ever Patriot League.

Oh, man, don't get me wrong. I'm from Greenville and I have had many friends who went to Furman. I know how good a school Furman is. It's very close in quality to Davidson (so is Wofford). I used to hear professors from my church say that Furman wanted to be the "Harvard of the South." (I think that an ambition that would make more sense would be the "Amherst College of the South," but I digress.) Heck, I would love to see Furman's academics to surpass Davidson in national recognition. Then maybe when Indiana people talk to me, they'll say, "Greenville? Hey, that's where Furman is, right?" instead of "Greenville? Hey, that's where that crazy right-wing school is, right?" [Bob Jones].

I won't pretend that my alma mater is close to Davidson, but that's no problem because it's not the school's mission.xthumbsupx

You know how Stanford, clearly, has every bit as top-notch a university as any given Ivy League school, but it has no reason or interest to be in the Ivy League? I'm just saying that, as an analogy, maybe Davidson wants to be to the Patriot League what Stanford is to the Ivy League: a peer but not a member. That's going by the contention that the Ivy League has, by reputation, the most elite conference of research universities in the country, and that the Patriot League has, by reputation, the most elite conference of liberal arts universities in the country. Yes, I know there might be exception in the PL with a few research institutions instead of liberal arts, but you get my point.

What's ironic is that, if that is that what Davidson is thinking, it should take notice from Stanford, Furman, and Wofford: the offering or non-offering of scholarships to your football team has little to do with the reputation of your academics.

Ok well I will cut to the chase.

I hate them. They suckxlolx

[IndianaAppMan]

Ok well I will cut to the chase.

I hate them. They suckxlolx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[CID1990]

I don't think they're laughing at us. I think they're envious that we have football (or GOOD football, in Davidson's case) and they don't.
The SoCon is known for football first, but having these other schools in the SoCon is what's best for the 19 other sports. AD's and presidents have to serve the best interests of all their teams, and they feel that a 12-team conference for the non-football teams is best for them, then let's be glad that they aren't blinded by serving almighty football and nothing else. Besides, having CofC, UNCG, & Davidson in the SoCon doesn't do a thing to hurt SoCon football.

Go check out the fan forums for cofc and you'll change your mind. They have no desire or intention to even consider football.

[IndianaAppMan]

Go check out the fan forums for cofc and you'll change your mind. They have no desire or intention to even consider football.

Well, that was kind of a blanket statement, with UNCG & Davidson mainly in mind. I doubt most of them care one way or the other anyway. A small group at UNCG might want football, but most people could care less. After all, sports aren't for everyone.

In response to your statement about CofC, it made me think of when my brother was an undergrad there. He kept himself fully entertained with all the Charleston night life & beaches. In fact he still lives there because he just loves the city so much. He could have gone to Florida State, who, at the peak of their dominance, was the team we had always rooted for. But he fell in love with CofC (and the fact that females outnumbered guys 7 to 1 his freshman year. (Of course, there was some "other" school comprised almost entirely of guys who were well-aware of the Charleston co-eds;) and would be happy to meander over to CofC to meet them, as gentlemen, of course) School spirit wasn't something he was really into, although he really liked the basketball games. He doesn't represent all of CofC, but it just seemed like those students had other things on their minds. If they got a football itch, they could go to The Citadel, Columbia, or Clemson.

[Texcat34]

Anybody ever seen a Davidson fan on this boardxlolx

OL FU,

I'm your huckleberry.

We're working on it. It's expensive. We're not pu$$ies. The Palladins are miserable at hoops and I've never met a person on planet earth that would turn down admittance to Davidson to go to Furman, despite how good of a school Furman is (I'm NOT trying to be a jacka$$, I'm serious). Currently, I'd rather go to the Elite 8 in basketball than finish 3rd to the last in the SoCon in football. However, if the school allowed the former football players to have our way it would already be a done deal. We have given money to expand the locker rooms, stadium, scoreboard, and built a nice new weight room in the last few years. The program is on an upswing and we have a rabid group of former football players chomping at the bit to give more money to the program. We'd all love to rejoin the SoCon, take our lumps and give it a shot. We're evidently playing the Citadel and Elon in the next few seasons to gauge our program's progress. We were supposed to play App State last year, the week after they beat Michigan, but they didn't meet our $ demand and thank God we backed out and allowed Lenoir Rhyne to be the sacrificial lamb. We did beat Lenoir-Rhyne the following week..probably because App State injured their entire team for us.

Does anyone anticipate the SoCon breaking up eventually with the money/student body size/academic profile discrepancies between Furman/Wofford/Citadel/Elon/Samford/Davidson and UNC-G/App State/UT-Chattanooga/Western Carolina (and possibly UNC-Charlotte or Georgia State someday), etc? Will the smaller schools or bigger schools every break off and go there separate ways and form different football playing leagues? It would seem that is more likely than Davidson ever becoming (or being invited as) a football-playing only member of the Patriot League (like Georgetown). I've heard conjecture about this and wanted to know everyone's thoughts.

The Pioneer League is a great conference for Davidson for now and highly competitive (and we are slowly developing rivalries), but considering our long affiliation with the SoCon in all other sports it would be nice if the administration would allow us to man up, take our lumps, and give it another shot. Although I sincerely enjoy the Pioneer League (no offense to any other PFL members on here), we have a lot more in common with the Woffords/Furmans/Elons of the world than Campbell, Jacksonville, Univ. of San Diego, Marist etc. If Wofford can have success and finance scholarships and graduate players then why can't we? There are really no excuses...except that our professors hate athletics and we now have a nationally ranked basketball team. The football program is in a lot better shape now than it was the last time we were in the SoCon (although we don't offer football scholarships, we do have the new "no loan" policy) as well as our brief stint in the Patriot League (the dark years of Davidson football when the administration tried to kill the program, seriously, from what I hear we had no shot before we even stepped on the field in the Patriot. Now it might be a different story, the program is light years ahead of where it was then).

Of course, the success of our basketball team puts a crimp in a lot of these realignment plans...not that I'm complaining. Anyway, I've been a long time reader (but I never post, although I cringe at the constant ***** talking about Davidson Football and the Pioneer League from our fellow SoCon members...thanks, we appreciate it) of this site and wanted to know everyone's thoughts...if they care, which they probably don't.

Alas, we do care about the reputation of Davidson football and I just happened to stumble back upon this glorious site quite recently. I have shared it with our message board www.davidsoncats.com and I'm sure that some of our more venerable posters will rectify our lack of presence here. By the way, we have moved Steph Curry from Shooting Guard to Wide Reciever

And before OL FU goes on some predictable "wine and cheese" rant about Davidson football, a good portion of our players were from middle income families and large public high schools, and I came from playing Class 5A football in West Texas against the likes of Odessa Permian and Midland Lee, etc. to play for Davidson..so, now that you are aware that there are Davidson football meatheads out there, that do in fact have testicles, I am going to go back to sipping Pinoit Noir, reading Plato, and watching the Wildcats rain 3's in the 2007-2008 Davidson Basketball "The SoCon Can Lick My 20-0 Balls" Highlight Video :)

[furman94]

OL FU,

I'm your huckleberry.

We're working on it. It's expensive. We're not pu$$ies. The Palladins are miserable at hoops and I've never met a person on planet earth that would turn down admittance to Davidson to go to Furman, despite how good of a school Furman is (I'm NOT trying to be a jacka$$, I'm serious). Currently, I'd rather go to the Elite 8 in basketball than finish 3rd to the last in the SoCon in football. However, if the school allowed the former football players to have our way it would already be a done deal. We have given money to expand the locker rooms, stadium, scoreboard, and built a nice new weight room in the last few years. The program is on an upswing and we have a rabid group of former football players chomping at the bit to give more money to the program. We'd all love to rejoin the SoCon, take our lumps and give it a shot. We're evidently playing the Citadel and Elon in the next few seasons to gauge our program's progress. We were supposed to play App State last year, the week after they beat Michigan, but they didn't meet our $ demand and thank God we backed out and allowed Lenoir Rhyne to be the sacrificial lamb. We did beat Lenoir-Rhyne the following week..probably because App State injured their entire team for us.

Does anyone anticipate the SoCon breaking up eventually with the money/student body size/academic profile discrepancies between Furman/Wofford/Citadel/Elon/Samford/Davidson and UNC-G/App State/UT-Chattanooga/Western Carolina (and possibly UNC-Charlotte or Georgia State someday), etc? Will the smaller schools or bigger schools every break off and go there separate ways and form different football playing leagues? It would seem that is more likely than Davidson ever becoming (or being invited as) a football-playing only member of the Patriot League (like Georgetown). I've heard conjecture about this and wanted to know everyone's thoughts.

The Pioneer League is a great conference for Davidson for now and highly competitive (and we are slowly developing rivalries), but considering our long affiliation with the SoCon in all other sports it would be nice if the administration would allow us to man up, take our lumps, and give it another shot. Although I sincerely enjoy the Pioneer League (no offense to any other PFL members on here), we have a lot more in common with the Woffords/Furmans/Elons of the world than Campbell, Jacksonville, Univ. of San Diego, Marist etc. If Wofford can have success and finance scholarships and graduate players then why can't we? There are really no excuses...except that our professors hate athletics and we now have a nationally ranked basketball team. The football program is in a lot better shape now than it was the last time we were in the SoCon (although we don't offer football scholarships, we do have the new "no loan" policy) as well as our brief stint in the Patriot League (the dark years of Davidson football when the administration tried to kill the program, seriously, from what I hear we had no shot before we even stepped on the field in the Patriot. Now it might be a different story, the program is light years ahead of where it was then).

Of course, the success of our basketball team puts a crimp in a lot of these realignment plans...not that I'm complaining. Anyway, I've been a long time reader (but I never post, although I cringe at the constant ***** talking about Davidson Football and the Pioneer League from our fellow SoCon members...thanks, we appreciate it) of this site and wanted to know everyone's thoughts...if they care, which they probably don't.

Alas, we do care about the reputation of Davidson football and I just happened to stumble upon this glorious site quite recently. I have shared it with our message board www.davidsoncats.com and I'm sure that some of our more venerable posters will rectify our lack of presence here. By the way, we have moved Steph Curry from Shooting Guard to Wide Reciever xlolx

WTF is with you and these elitist comments? Paladins misrable at hoops? We have an improving program with a great coach (Jeff Jackson) who is trying to bring our glory days of Memorial Auditorium back. Lay off that! We all respect Davidson for their run in the Dance this year. That's great!

What do you mean by not turning down an admittance to Davidson to go Furman? From the last time I checked, Furman and Davidson were about on the same level from an acedemic standpoint. You're serious? Really? Care to explain that?

Where do you get this third to last thing? Furman is always competing for a playoff berth (except our slip up last year) and a Socon Championship! Do your homework newbe!

Its great that ya'll are passionate about football! I'd love for you to come back! You wouldn't have much success (at first) but could eventually renew some old rivalries (20's and 30's)!

Why must you hate on Ol FU? He's one of the most respectable posters on AGS! Wine and Cheese rant? Sounds more like WHINE and Cheese to me! Do you think that all Furman players come from money? That's a big N-O! Many of our players come from 4-A and 5-A schools in Georgia and SC too! Guess what; THEY'RE MIDDLE CLASS TOO! Alot of our prospects also come out of 2-A and 3-A schools in SC. Take Renaldo Gray for example; coming out of Greenwood SC. Oh, and his cousin, you may have heard of him... ARMANTI EDWARDS! Furman offers SCOLARSHIPS! That's how we get them. Its all about priorities! Davidson's are obviously in BBall, and Furman, ASU, and Wofford's are in FB. Have fun watching your Socon Ball-licking Fun Tapes!

GUESS WHAT? I'm watching my YOU CAN KISS MY ASS tapes drinking my Bud Light and eating potato chips!

WHINE ALL YOU WANT!

Way to tick me off you arrogant Terdcat! xthumbsupx


































































End rant... :D xthumbsupx

[ASUMountaineer]

OL FU,

I'm your huckleberry.

We're working on it. It's expensive. We're not pu$$ies. The Palladins are miserable at hoops and I've never met a person on planet earth that would turn down admittance to Davidson to go to Furman, despite how good of a school Furman is (I'm NOT trying to be a jacka$$, I'm serious). Currently, I'd rather go to the Elite 8 in basketball than finish 3rd to the last in the SoCon in football. However, if the school allowed the former football players to have our way it would already be a done deal. We have given money to expand the locker rooms, stadium, scoreboard, and built a nice new weight room in the last few years. The program is on an upswing and we have a rabid group of former football players chomping at the bit to give more money to the program. We'd all love to rejoin the SoCon, take our lumps and give it a shot. We're evidently playing the Citadel and Elon in the next few seasons to gauge our program's progress. We were supposed to play App State last year, the week after they beat Michigan, but they didn't meet our $ demand and thank God we backed out and allowed Lenoir Rhyne to be the sacrificial lamb. We did beat Lenoir-Rhyne the following week..probably because App State injured their entire team for us.

Does anyone anticipate the SoCon breaking up eventually with the money/student body size/academic profile discrepancies between Furman/Wofford/Citadel/Elon/Samford/Davidson and UNC-G/App State/UT-Chattanooga/Western Carolina (and possibly UNC-Charlotte or Georgia State someday), etc? Will the smaller schools or bigger schools every break off and go there separate ways and form different football playing leagues? It would seem that is more likely than Davidson ever becoming (or being invited as) a football-playing only member of the Patriot League (like Georgetown). I've heard conjecture about this and wanted to know everyone's thoughts.

The Pioneer League is a great conference for Davidson for now and highly competitive (and we are slowly developing rivalries), but considering our long affiliation with the SoCon in all other sports it would be nice if the administration would allow us to man up, take our lumps, and give it another shot. Although I sincerely enjoy the Pioneer League (no offense to any other PFL members on here), we have a lot more in common with the Woffords/Furmans/Elons of the world than Campbell, Jacksonville, Univ. of San Diego, Marist etc. If Wofford can have success and finance scholarships and graduate players then why can't we? There are really no excuses...except that our professors hate athletics and we now have a nationally ranked basketball team. The football program is in a lot better shape now than it was the last time we were in the SoCon (although we don't offer football scholarships, we do have the new "no loan" policy) as well as our brief stint in the Patriot League (the dark years of Davidson football when the administration tried to kill the program, seriously, from what I hear we had no shot before we even stepped on the field in the Patriot. Now it might be a different story, the program is light years ahead of where it was then).

Of course, the success of our basketball team puts a crimp in a lot of these realignment plans...not that I'm complaining. Anyway, I've been a long time reader (but I never post, although I cringe at the constant ***** talking about Davidson Football and the Pioneer League from our fellow SoCon members...thanks, we appreciate it) of this site and wanted to know everyone's thoughts...if they care, which they probably don't.

Alas, we do care about the reputation of Davidson football and I just happened to stumble back upon this glorious site quite recently. I have shared it with our message board www.davidsoncats.com and I'm sure that some of our more venerable posters will rectify our lack of presence here. By the way, we have moved Steph Curry from Shooting Guard to Wide Reciever

And before OL FU goes on some predictable "wine and cheese" rant about Davidson football, a good portion of our players were from middle income families and large public high schools, and I came from playing Class 5A football in West Texas against the likes of Odessa Permian and Midland Lee, etc. to play for Davidson..so, now that you are aware that there are Davidson football meatheads out there, that do in fact have testicles, I am going to go back to sipping Pinoit Noir, reading Plato, and watching the Wildcats rain 3's in the 2007-2008 Davidson Basketball "The SoCon Can Lick My 20-0 Balls" Highlight Video :)

Please don't talk basketball smack (it hurts us SoCon basketball fans xnodx) on a football message board. Welcome to the board, I'm glad to see Davidson represented on the board (until now I didn't know there were any Davidson fans on here).

I hate Davidson, I really do, you guys always beat us a basketball (except last year at Belk which was probably the best App bball game I've been too:)). However, I am glad you guys had the run you guys did as it benefits the SoCon and glad to see the media coverage you guys (and Stephen) have gotten. He seems like a stand up kid (like his dad) and McKillop--though I can't stand him--is an excellent coach.I really wish we could get your football team up to Boone, I think it would be a great beginning to a rivalry. xthumbsupx

[Mountaineer]

OL FU,

I'm your huckleberry.

We're working on it. It's expensive. We're not pu$$ies. The Palladins are miserable at hoops and I've never met a person on planet earth that would turn down admittance to Davidson to go to Furman, despite how good of a school Furman is (I'm NOT trying to be a jacka$$, I'm serious). Currently, I'd rather go to the Elite 8 in basketball than finish 3rd to the last in the SoCon in football.

C'mon. Davidson's last Elite 8 appearance was 1969. It's not like you guys are running the table in the tourney every year. xlolx xrolleyesx

Granted the run was impressive, but I'm interested in seeing the discrepancy in resources Davidson can put toward basketball because they can't/won't man-up and field a football team in the SoCon. Same can be said for Charleston and UNC G.

I'm much more impressed with my fellow SoCon schools, tournament or not, who maintain reasonably competitive basketball teams while fully funding football. xnodx

[furman94]

I totally agree!

[Texcat34]

Gentlemen,

Please calm down, I did not mean to offend any of you, I was only having a little fun. I was so jacked up to find a message board devoted solely to FCS football and once I start searching for anything about Davidson...all I found was trash talking and disrespect to the quality of PFL football and our lack of participation in the SoCon. Thus, since Davidson is usually referred to as "a bunch of pussies" on this board, I just wanted to show some people that there are former Davidson players that DO care and can actually generate some pithy responses to criticism. Given last year's basketball run and national TV exposure, that was my quickest defense mechanism to various Furman and App allegations of Davidson being a bunch of SoCon sellouts.

Believe me, I am very respectful of the rest of the SoCon's basketball teams (even you El Cid, hang in there) as I have personally witnessed and been humbled by numerous Davidson flameouts in the SoCon basketball tourney. I kid I kid. I'm also well aware of Furman's great academic reputation, I even hear they call it the "Davidson of South Carolina" haha.

And dear God, of course I know that App State, Furman, Wofford, Ga Southern, take turns winning the SoCon in football. Throughout history Furman has annihilated Davidson in football, I was just ribbing you for finally slipping up and finishing 3rd to last this past season. I'm a huge supporter of the football teams in the SoCon and always root for you against BCS teams (thank you App State) and in the playoffs. I admit, I'm jealous we still don't play football with you boys.

As far as OL FU, I was responding to his "I hate Davidson" comments, that is all, other than that I know nothing about him, I'm sure he's a great dude and evidently play O Tackle or something for the Palladins. Davidson's cyberspace manhood was challenged without anyone noticing and I finally noticed and wanted ya'll to know that we can talk ***** back, even though we play in the "lowly" Pioneer League.

And the "whine and cheese" was completely misinterpreted. That was directed as an assumption of DAVIDSON, not FURMAN football. I concluded that ya'll think Davidson football players are all a bunch of dorky prep school kids that played lame boarding high schools and all run 5.1 40's. I mean how did you take what I said as an affront to the demographical background of Furman players? What? And if you think I'm really drinking Pinot Noir and reading philosophy then apparently sarcasm wasn't a concept taught down in Grunnnvile. I'm actually in NYC for work sipping on a Fatweiser with a fat dip in.

Well, sorry to piss (or confuse, perhaps?) everyone off within 30 seconds of posting, at least you can't say Davidson has zero presence or balls on this board anymore.

[Texcat34]

Evidently the spring before last App State offered us $100,000 or so to come up to Boone to get our ass kicked. Our AD responded with a higher figure and Yosef said no. Seems like it was a good idea since Lenoir Rhyne took the game instead and got beat up by the 'Neers the week after the Meeeechigan upset. I'm sure if I was in ya'll shoes I would hate Davidson too for not playing SoCon football, yet doing so well in basketball. I'm just trying to present our side of the story. Believe me, there are a lot of alumni that want us back in. It's just a very delicate, political, and complicated issue. At least we are in a legit non-scholly conference now and can compete for a championship as opposed to floating around as a lowly independent.

[ASUMountaineer]

Evidently the spring before last App State offered us $100,000 or so to come up to Boone to get our ass kicked. Our AD responded with a higher figure and Yosef said no. Seems like it was a good idea since Lenoir Rhyne took the game instead and got beat up by the 'Neers the week after the Meeeechigan upset. I'm sure if I was in ya'll shoes I would hate Davidson too for not playing SoCon football, yet doing so well in basketball. I'm just trying to present our side of the story. Believe me, there are a lot of alumni that want us back in. It's just a very delicate, political, and complicated issue. At least we are in a legit non-scholly conference now and can compete for a championship as opposed to floating around as a lowly independent.

I actually wish you guys would get back into the SoCon football mix (as opposed to Lil' Sammy) because I live 5 miles from Davidson. Used to work in Mooresville, though now I work in uptown. Here's to a more competitive season for you guys in basketball this year, though I doubt it. xbawlingx

[Mountaineer]

I'm sure if I was in ya'll shoes I would hate Davidson too for not playing SoCon football..

Pretty much. xthumbsupx xlolx Davidson is going to get grief for the football, but I certainly respect what the Wildcats have going in basketball. Welcome aboard and post more. xnodx

[furman94]

Gentlemen,

Please calm down, I did not mean to offend any of you, I was only having a little fun. I was so jacked up to find a message board devoted solely to FCS football and once I start searching for anything about Davidson...all I found was trash talking and disrespect to the quality of PFL football and our lack of participation in the SoCon. Thus, since Davidson is usually referred to as "a bunch of pussies" on this board, I just wanted to show some people that there are former Davidson players that DO care and can actually generate some pithy responses to criticism. Given last year's basketball run and national TV exposure, that was my quickest defense mechanism to various Furman and App allegations of Davidson being a bunch of SoCon sellouts.

Believe me, I am very respectful of the rest of the SoCon's basketball teams (even you El Cid, hang in there) as I have personally witnessed and been humbled by numerous Davidson flameouts in the SoCon basketball tourney. I kid I kid. I'm also well aware of Furman's great academic reputation, I even hear they call it the "Davidson of South Carolina" haha.

And dear God, of course I know that App State, Furman, Wofford, Ga Southern, take turns winning the SoCon in football. Throughout history Furman has annihilated Davidson in football, I was just ribbing you for finally slipping up and finishing 3rd to last this past season. I'm a huge supporter of the football teams in the SoCon and always root for you against BCS teams (thank you App State) and in the playoffs. I admit, I'm jealous we still don't play football with you boys.

As far as OL FU, I was responding to his "I hate Davidson" comments, that is all, other than that I know nothing about him, I'm sure he's a great dude and evidently play O Tackle or something for the Palladins. Davidson's cyberspace manhood was challenged without anyone noticing and I finally noticed and wanted ya'll to know that we can talk ***** back, even though we play in the "lowly" Pioneer League.

And the "whine and cheese" was completely misinterpreted. That was directed as an assumption of DAVIDSON, not FURMAN football. I concluded that ya'll think Davidson football players are all a bunch of dorky prep school kids that played lame boarding high schools and all run 5.1 40's. I mean how did you take what I said as an affront to the demographical background of Furman players? What? And if you think I'm really drinking Pinot Noir and reading philosophy then apparently sarcasm wasn't a concept taught down in Grunnnvile. I'm actually in NYC for work sipping on a Fatweiser with a fat dip in.

Well, sorry to piss (or confuse, perhaps?) everyone off within 30 seconds of posting, at least you can't say Davidson has zero presence or balls on this board anymore.

Chill man! Furman usually gets the nod as the Wine and Cheese prep school kids! I know what sarcasm is and I knew that you weren't reading Plato. If you're offended by "I hate Davidson",you should stick around and see some of the ribbings we give each other around here!

Truce!

Oh, and what's with the Grunnville? Never heard of that term before!

last note: The Plural form of a Paladin is PALADINS (One L xthumbsupx )

[Texcat34]

No *****, me and group of former players are meeting with the President in a few weeks to discuss the long-term future of football at Davidson and to inquire about a return to the SoCon someday (I seriously doubt El Presidente reads this forum). OK, even though this is a football board and we deserve the grief for not playing in the SoCon, cut me some slack with the basketball chatter, I had to respond with something since I'm a newby here. And yes, we can't win every basketball game in the SoCon forever, I believe in statistics and there are some solid teams in the league who will give us a run for the money. I was at that App State game when you broke our home winning streak (that was our last SoCon loss by the way), I cursed that evil outdoorsman Yosef the entire way home.

ASUMountaineer, I live in South Charlotte near Providence H.S and used to live up in Birkdale near your 'hood.

Thanks for the welcome (especially from you furman94 haha Ok, I agree, truce). Considering this is primarily a full-scholarship board I promise I won't ramble on about Davidson too much (I'll keep the PFL talk reserved mainly for my Dayton, Valpo, USD, Morehead, etc. brethren since I know App nation is more concerned with I don't know..playing at Death Valley and Furman worries about Va Tech while we worry about our opener at UNC-Pembroke). I was just shellacked by a bunch of criticism of my beloved alma mater when I stumbled upon this board and felt it prudent to show we have more fan interest than freakin' Sacred Heart, Morgan State, etc.

We lowly FCS non-scholarship teams will just keep to ourselves here in the ghetto with our mindless banter dreaming of emancipation from oppression and admission to your elitist playoff system.xbowx

[Seawolf97]

No *****, me and group of former players are meeting with the President in a few weeks to discuss the long-term future of football at Davidson and to inquire about a return to the SoCon someday (I seriously doubt El Presidente reads this forum). OK, even though this is a football board and we deserve the grief for not playing in the SoCon, cut me some slack with the basketball chatter, I had to respond with something since I'm a newby here. And yes, we can't win every basketball game in the SoCon forever, I believe in statistics and there are some solid teams in the league who will give us a run for the money. I was at that App State game when you broke our home winning streak (that was our last SoCon loss by the way), I cursed that evil outdoorsman Yosef the entire way home.

ASUMountaineer, I live in South Charlotte near Providence H.S and used to live up in Birkdale near your 'hood.

Thanks for the welcome (especially from you furman94 haha Ok, I agree, truce). Considering this is primarily a full-scholarship board I promise I won't ramble on about Davidson too much (I'll keep the PFL talk reserved mainly for my Dayton, Valpo, USD, Morehead, etc. brethren since I know App nation is more concerned with I don't know..playing at Death Valley and Furman worries about Va Tech while we worry about our opener at UNC-Pembroke). I was just shellacked by a bunch of criticism of my beloved alma mater when I stumbled upon this board and felt it prudent to show we have more fan interest than freakin' Sacred Heart, Morgan State, etc.

We lowly FCS non-scholarship teams will just keep to ourselves here in the ghetto with our mindless banter dreaming of emancipation from oppression and admission to your elitist playoff system.xbowx

Good luck in 2008 ! xthumbsupx

[CID1990]

Pump the same money into football that the average SoCon school does and then we'll see how well Davidson does in basketball. The same goes for cofc.

[Texcat34]

Pump the same money into football that the average SoCon school does and then we'll see how well Davidson does in basketball. The same goes for cofc.

Touche, I understand the rest of the SoCon's frustration with our basketball program. However, everyone acts like we spend or recruit like we're in the ACC or something. Do you think we have some secret fund that landed Steph Curry? We're the only school that even offered him a full scholarship (Va Tech said he could walk on) because he looked like he was 12 years old (he looks 13 now and there are reports he is developing pubic hair so at least we have that going for us).

As I've said ad nauseum, we would LOVE to spend as much as you do for football, but until the administration agrees to grant football scholarships again, it doesn't make sense and we currently enjoy the Pioneer League and gradually stepping up the non-conference schedule. I'm afraid that finishing #9 in the country in the basketball and the probability of being ranked again in 2008-2009 makes the powers that be more excited than an immediate return to the SEC of FCS football. I mean, we are supposedly playing El Cid either next year or the following, I'm not sure which it is.

Cut us some slack, we are trying. If you admit that you are jealous of our basketball team, I will openly admit that all of our former football players wish the school wouldn't have pu$$ed and dropped SoCon football. If El Cid spent more money on basketball and less money on fake grenades and rubber bullets then I'm sure you would do better as well. :D Seriously though, your young basketball team is supposed to be much improved this year, I always enjoy coming down to Charleston to play you guys, it's a great atmosphere and I can't wait to come down for a football as opposed to a basketball game in the near future.

[ASUMountaineer]

Touche, I understand the rest of the SoCon's frustration with our basketball program. However, everyone acts like we spend or recruit like we're in the ACC or something. Do you think we have some secret fund that landed Steph Curry? We're the only school that even offered him a full scholarship (Va Tech said he could walk on) because he looked like he was 12 years old (he looks 13 now and there are reports he is developing pubic hair so at least we have that going for us).

As I've said ad nauseum, we would LOVE to spend as much as you do for football, but until the administration agrees to grant football scholarships again, it doesn't make sense and we currently enjoy the Pioneer League and gradually stepping up the non-conference schedule. I'm afraid that finishing #9 in the country in the basketball and the probability of being ranked again in 2008-2009 makes the powers that be more excited than an immediate return to the SEC of FCS football. I mean, we are supposedly playing El Cid either next year or the following, I'm not sure which it is.

Cut us some slack, we are trying. If you admit that you are jealous of our basketball team, I will openly admit that all of our former football players wish the school wouldn't have pu$$ed and dropped SoCon football. If El Cid spent more money on basketball and less money on fake grenades and rubber bullets then I'm sure you would do better as well. :D Seriously though, your young basketball team is supposed to be much improved this year, I always enjoy coming down to Charleston to play you guys, it's a great atmosphere and I can't wait to come down for a football as opposed to a basketball game in the near future.

Haha, I wouldn't hate Davidson so much if I weren't somewhat jealous of their bball team. Alas, I'd rather have an awesome football team than basketball, just because of the experience...nevertheless, bball is my second favorite.

Yeah, we just moved to the Birkdale area last year. My wife is from Huntersville, me not so much. My hometown Trinity, NC started a small (not as much now) private school back in the day called Trinity College, now Duke University. xnodx The city is still small. xcoolx

[Professor]

So i wonder does UNCG still feel the same

[citdog]

So i wonder does UNCG still feel the same

Most SoCon fans feel that either fund a football team or get the hell out. You need us a HELL of a lot more than we need you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They just started club football.

https://carolinianuncg.com/2016/09/21/coach-vadini-reflects-on-uncg-inaugural-game/