ETSU Football: A Game-Time Decision

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=etsu-football-a-game-time-decision&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


Reviving football has been a persistent topic of conversation at East Tennessee State University and its home base of Johnson City ever since President Paul Stanton shut the program down in 2003, citing financial difficulties. Most Washington County residents, including Stanton, would like to see football return to ETSU. But a plethora of financial considerations teamed with student body opposition has so far kept that from happening. A careful study of the facts and figures surrounding the debate has made most local business folks sympathetic to the reasons for not having it. That said, sentiment still exists that not having football is a missed economic opportunity for the entire local community.

Odd that the community and vocal alumni (and the athletic department (http://www.etsubucs.com/sports/football/)) seem to want it... but the students don't.

[EKU05]

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=etsu-football-a-game-time-decision&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


Odd that the community and vocal alumni (and the athletic department (http://www.etsubucs.com/sports/football/)) seem to want it... but the students don't.

Is is really that odd? It's a lot easier to want something that no one is going to essentially force you to help pay for. I wish they would bring it back, but that reality remains.

Besides, I'm not so sure that it's a lack of students that want it...it's just the ones that don't are more vocal because of said fees. The people in the community that don't care either way about football aren't part of the equation because no one would be putting a fee on their backs to pay for it.

[gophoenix]

Is is really that odd? It's a lot easier to want something that no one is going to essentially force you to help pay for. I wish they would bring it back, but that reality remains.

Besides, I'm not so sure that it's a lack of students that want it...it's just the ones that don't are more vocal because of said fees. The people in the community that don't care either way about football aren't part of the equation because no one would be putting a fee on their backs to pay for it.

Students get in Free and Alumni/Fans pay to get in, plus donate. So it isn't exactly free.

The thing that really chaps me about it is that public school education is dirt cheap. So adding a few hundred for entertainment is like adding pennies to a $10 bill. But, I see it time and again when public school kids (at least the vocal ones) scream bloody murder if anthing costs just a bit more.

[EKU05]

Students get in Free and Alumni/Fans pay to get in, plus donate. So it isn't exactly free.

The thing that really chaps me about it is that public school education is dirt cheap. So adding a few hundred for entertainment is like adding pennies to a $10 bill. But, I see it time and again when public school kids (at least the vocal ones) scream bloody murder if anthing costs just a bit more.

You missed the point entirely. The people you're talking about paying to get in do so willingly because they want to go. The civilians that don't care for football suffer no negative consequences. However, for an ETSU student that honestly just doesn't care if the school has a football team they are now paying a fee that does them no good (as far as they see it).

I was lucky enough to get through school on a full academic scholarship, but many of my friends had to work their butts off for every penny they spent on their educations. It's only "dirt cheap" in relative terms. Again...if I were there I'd consent to the fee, but I love college football.

For that matter, at ETSU you're not only talking about students that don't like football, but also the ones that do and simply are already too in love with another team. I'm sure there are throngs of students at that school who could care less about any team that doesn't have orange and white checkered endzones. I'm not saying I think that's good, but the original assertion was that students voting it down didn't make sense...but it actually isn't hard to figure out why that would happen. That's all I'm saying.

[IndianaAppMan]

I was lucky enough to get through school on a full academic scholarship, but many of my friends had to work their butts off for every penny they spent on their educations. It's only "dirt cheap" in relative terms.

My gosh, thank you for saying that. It's refreshing to hear someone grateful for the scholarships he received, even if they were something you had to work hard for. I'm sure if you didn't get those scholarships, your education wouldn't have seemed so "dirt cheap."

Just because ETSU (or Eastern Kentucky or App State) do not cost students $20,000+ a year, it doesn't make it dirt cheap. I've been out of school for 4 years, and I have years left of payments for my "dirt cheap" education.

Anyway, a lot of people at App State miss having ETSU as a rival. Johnson City's only an hour from Boone, so both there were a lot of visiting fans in that series. I've heard that former ETSU fans may have jumped over to App State fans, but I don't think there's much evidence for that. I too would guess that, at this point, most ETSU students feel plenty occupied with the Vols.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Raising tuition from $1500 for a full load to $1530 for a full load really doesn't sit well with students.

[TheBisonator]

Eastern Tennessee without college football is like fried chicken without macaroni salad. It's like hockey without broken teeth. It's like an Oriental massage without the "happy ending".

[IndianaAppMan]

It's like North Dakota without 10 feet of snow.

[TheBisonator]

It's like North Dakota without 10 feet of snow.

EXACTLY!!xthumbsupx

[Golden Eagle]

However, for an ETSU student that honestly just doesn't care if the school has a football team they are now paying a fee that does them no good (as far as they see it).

Also worth noting is that many who would be paying the fees would no longer be in school when the first game was played.

[OL FU]

Eastern Tennessee without college football is like fried chicken without macaroni salad. It's like hockey without broken teeth. It's like an Oriental massage without the "happy ending".

I have hardly noticed the differencexeyebrowx xlolx


Yes I think the issue was current students paying a fee when the football team would not start until after their graduation. I would have a tough time with thatxnodx

[mcveyrl]

Anyway, a lot of people at App State miss having ETSU as a rival. Johnson City's only an hour from Boone, so both there were a lot of visiting fans in that series. I've heard that former ETSU fans may have jumped over to App State fans, but I don't think there's much evidence for that. I too would guess that, at this point, most ETSU students feel plenty occupied with the Vols.

I live and work in the area. They all went back to being Tennessee fans...

[gophoenix]

My gosh, thank you for saying that. It's refreshing to hear someone grateful for the scholarships he received, even if they were something you had to work hard for. I'm sure if you didn't get those scholarships, your education wouldn't have seemed so "dirt cheap."

Just because ETSU (or Eastern Kentucky or App State) do not cost students $20,000+ a year, it doesn't make it dirt cheap. I've been out of school for 4 years, and I have years left of payments for my "dirt cheap" education.

Anyway, a lot of people at App State miss having ETSU as a rival. Johnson City's only an hour from Boone, so both there were a lot of visiting fans in that series. I've heard that former ETSU fans may have jumped over to App State fans, but I don't think there's much evidence for that. I too would guess that, at this point, most ETSU students feel plenty occupied with the Vols.

Yes you are getting a drastically reduced rate due to whatever the reason. The fact is, students don't want to pay for crap. If football comes at the cost of taxpayers, they welcome it. If not and they have to pay, then bye bye football team.

It's not that I don't get the point. But the point you fail to get is that public school is cheap and people whine about the cost all the time. They could have football, but they don't want to pay for it. It's not that they don't want it, it's that they don't want to pay. It's the whole public school mentality. I want everything, and pay nothing for it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think a big untalked point about all this is the fact that different states fund public schools differently. Certainly this doesn't apply directly to athletics, but when it comes to tuition, funding, etc. it does. Maybe the student fees wouldn't be so onerous if the State decided to do less funding of UT and more to underfunded state schools like TSU, TTU, ETSU, etc.

I think Kentucky has the same problem. Both don't have powerful flagship state schools (e.g. Pennsylvania has Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, etc.) so the whole state suffers in terms of funding.

That's my theory, anyway. Am I on the right track?

[TTUEagles]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;971399]I think a big untalked point about all this is the fact that different states fund public schools differently. Certainly this doesn't apply directly to athletics, but when it comes to tuition, funding, etc. it does. Maybe the student fees wouldn't be so onerous if the State decided to do less funding of UT and more to underfunded state schools like TSU, TTU, ETSU, etc.

QUOTE]

I agree with you...I was told several years ago that TTU was the least funded public university in TN - that "they" (the State) wanted to keep TTU as an engineering school and not fund anything more to get a more diverse university. Thus making it hard for recruiting and transferring athletes for there's not as much to choose from for a major emphasis of study. Then again, that may be me making up excuses for having a program with a not-so-much history of winning recently.
But, I saw it at TTU, where students were primarily UT or other "big school" fans and didn't really pay attention to their alma mater's team. I played at TTU and was severely disappointed at the lack of school spirit or allegiance to their own school. How naive I was to think everyone lived and died with their school's teams. My own friends even thought we were "division II or something" - (I'll never forget that quote) - and went to UT/Vandy games instead. I think that lack of "pride" in their own school keeps students from having that desire to foot the bill and it seems that way with ETSU.

[IndianaAppMan]

But the point you fail to get is that public school is cheap and people whine about the cost all the time.

Public school is not cheap. What do you not understand about that. Yes, it's cheaper than private schools, but it's not cheap. Not everybody will get a scholarship as you apparently were fortunate enough to receive, and not everybody has parents who can afford to pay for it. Perhaps many of them could attend a private college, but they have multiple siblings, making it unaffordable for their families. Therefore, millions of today's grads from these "cheap" public schools must enter the workforce and start paying down on their massive loans. My brother is paying almost as much on his loan for his public school Master's degree as he is on his rent.

As one example of what is happening at "cheap" public schools nationwide, look at how rapidly tuition costs are increasing in the state of Virginia.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/across-board-va-colleges-are-increasing-tuition-and-fees

Look at the graphs on this website: http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml . College tuition has been increasing at a rate higher than inflation for thirty years; therefore, while public schools may have been "cheap" when the baby boomers were in college in the 70's, they're not anymore.

Maybe these students at ETSU do a personal costs/benefits assessment on whether football is worth their money and they decide it's not. Who can blame them? I think it stinks that ETSU lost its football team, but if it's not considered worth the money to the students and it is a money drain on academic programs, then I can understand.

[IndianaAppMan]

The fact is, students don't want to pay for crap. It's not that they don't want it, it's that they don't want to pay. It's the whole public school mentality. I want everything, and pay nothing for it.

Let's say I'm at a restaurant and I see a waiter bring a filet mignon to another table. It looks absolutely delicious, and I tell my wife, "I want that." Then I look at the menu and see it's $39.95. I decide that I still want that steak, but not bad enought to drop $40 bucks on it. Does that mean i have a "public school mentality," since I want something but don't want to pay the price for it?

Man, nobody wants to pay for things if they can get them for free. If you could have gotten a full free ride to Elon, whether it was based on merit or just luck (such as being the child of an Elon employee), you'd have accepted it in a heartbeat. If someone offered you a free car, I'm sure you'd take it.

At Elon, My wife had plenty of friends who didn't want to or have to pay for crap. Many (of course, not all) didn't even get their first job until they graduated, yet, thanks to Mommy and Daddy, they had fancy cars, went to an expensive school, had new furniture in the apartments, and so on. They wanted (and had) everything, and paid nothing for it. But I would be wrong to write that pattern off as a private school mentality; I learned better from a good buddy of mine from Elon. He worked his freaking tail off juggling 35 hours/week at Wal-Mart, going home for two days for Thanksgiving & Christmas, leading to many missed parties and especially missed sleep, yet he excelled in his job and his classes. He valued a good work ethic and has done very well for himself since graduating, but I'm sure that he'd have accepted help on tuition or rent if it had been available.

It's a bummer that ETSU doesn't have football because it seems to have left a void on campus there; however, whether it's students or taxpayers who would foot the bill for football, they should not be forced to pay for it if it's something they do not want.

[EKU05]

Yes you are getting a drastically reduced rate due to whatever the reason. The fact is, students don't want to pay for crap. If football comes at the cost of taxpayers, they welcome it. If not and they have to pay, then bye bye football team.

It's not that I don't get the point. But the point you fail to get is that public school is cheap and people whine about the cost all the time. They could have football, but they don't want to pay for it. It's not that they don't want it, it's that they don't want to pay. It's the whole public school mentality. I want everything, and pay nothing for it.

It's not a public school mentality from me. Outside of EKU my education came from 13 years of private schooling including a high school that costs over 5 times what EKU does for in state students. However, if you think that just everyone has a couple thousand laying around for a year of college without working for it then you are sadly mistaken.

[TexasTerror]

ETSU football craving fans had a pow-wow yesterday as they hope to have a pro-football president put in place to help push along the return of the gridiron sport...

By Ron Bliss
TriCitiesSports.com
June 7, 2008

JOHNSON CITY -- The Buc Football and Friends Foundation held its annual strategy session Saturday morning at the Best Western Motel in Johnson City and came to one conclusion regarding bringing football back to the school: All efforts need to be focused on getting a football-friendly future president.

President Paul Stanton, Jr., has announced his retirement effective March 1, 2009 and a president to replace him is expected to be chosen sometime in the next six to seven months.

"Our biggest job is working to get a president who wants football back,'' said Troy DeCastro, a former player who is active in the group. "We have three or four months to get it done. If the wrong person gets in, the chances of bringing football back will be long.''

http://www.tricitiessports.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=78&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdetail=26815&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1131&hn=tricitiessports&he=.com

[IndianaAppMan]

By Ron Bliss
TriCitiesSports.com
June 7, 2008

JOHNSON CITY -- The Buc Football and Friends Foundation held its annual strategy session Saturday morning at the Best Western Motel in Johnson City and came to one conclusion regarding bringing football back to the school: All efforts need to be focused on getting a football-friendly future president.
http://www.tricitiessports.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=78&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdetail=26815&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1131&hn=tricitiessports&he=.com

That sounds a little extreme to me. Their most important priority for their next university president is for him/her to be football friendlyxeyebrowx ? What about improving the exposure of the university's strengths? What about making ETSU move up in the national rankings? (I mean that as an ambition, not implying in any way that ETSU isn't doing well right now.) I mean, I could understand if this is a quality they'd seek in an athletic director, but there are many more important responsibilities to a university president than starting a college football program.

Heck, why don't they just make the president of the athletic booster club the university president, with no regard to academics. Sheesh!

[TexasTerror]

That sounds a little extreme to me. Their most important priority for their next university president is for him/her to be football friendlyxeyebrowx ? What about improving the exposure of the university's strengths? What about making ETSU move up in the national rankings? (I mean that as an ambition, not implying in any way that ETSU isn't doing well right now.) I mean, I could understand if this is a quality they'd seek in an athletic director, but there are many more important responsibilities to a university president than starting a college football program.

Heck, why don't they just make the president of the athletic booster club the university president, with no regard to academics. Sheesh!

ETSU faithful believe that a football friendly AD can make football happen and in turn have a dramatic impact on the state of academics (see the Appalachian State stuff in the article). That's going a bit dramatic, but having football does open things up for a marching band (doubt ETSU still has one now) and things like that do benefit the program.

[g-webb1994]

One main consideration is that they need a real football stadium too. The Unidome was a dreadful place to watch football, and it isn't basketball-friendly either.

[gophoenix]

One main consideration is that they need a real football stadium too. The Unidome was a dreadful place to watch football, and it isn't basketball-friendly either.

dreadful is an understatement. it was flat out horrible. it felt like a swamp in there and didn't smell much better. the lighting was awful. terrible line of site to the field.

[catamount man]

One main consideration is that they need a real football stadium too. The Unidome was a dreadful place to watch football, and it isn't basketball-friendly either.

The mini-dump as I called it. Horrible. I do wish the folks in Johnson City all the best though and hope they get football back. ETSU and WCU had some matchups as they are our 2nd oldest rival, behind slappy appy. xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[gophoenix]

The mini-dump as I called it. Horrible. I do wish the folks in Johnson City all the best though and hope they get football back. ETSU and WCU had some matchups as they are our 2nd oldest rival, behind slappy appy. xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

So we're the next oldest now? :D