Where are the Harvard and Lehigh Fans

[Stang Fever]

I said it from the start of the season...that both these teams are over-ratted...and for that i caught so much heat...Now who is right...Harvard no longer in the top 25...and Lehigh floating at the bottom of the rankings...

[colgate13]

that both these teams are over-ratted

Lehigh and Harvard had too many rats? :confused:

Oh Stang Fever, doesn't it feel soooo nice to be right? You best hope that Cal Poly goes 15-0 or else maybe they were overrated too?

BTW, Poly has been ranked ahead of Lehigh and Harvard in all my polls for a long time. You're kind of beating a... Mustang as it were. :deadhorse

[ngineer]

I said it from the start of the season...that both these teams are over-ratted...and for that i caught so much heat...Now who is right...Harvard no longer in the top 25...and Lehigh floating at the bottom of the rankings...

What the hell are you talking about? I've been here all along and long before you. Lehigh has not been overrated. They haven't been beaten all year and have given two games away. The closest thing to a good game was at Harvard. There is no question in my mind Lehigh can play with anyone in the country personnel-wise, but they haven't executed well, as yet..So with 6 games down, I guess you're entitled to 'feel your oats', but then, again, keep in mind we're playing with polls and opinions based upon what we are able to see, and reading about everyone else that we can can't see. It's why we have playoffs. Get there, and then, you can spout.

[griz37]

What the hell are you talking about? I've been here all along and long before you. Lehigh has not been overrated. They haven't been beaten all year and have given two games away. The closest thing to a good game was at Harvard. There is no question in my mind Lehigh can play with anyone in the country personnel-wise, but they haven't executed well, as yet..So with 6 games down, I guess you're entitled to 'feel your oats', but then, again, keep in mind we're playing with polls and opinions based upon what we are able to see, and reading about everyone else that we can can't see. It's why we have playoffs. Get there, and then, you can spout.

They should have been in the playoffs last year but their spot went to Lehigh for some ungodly reason.

[slostang]

Stang Fever, ngineer has a good point. Before we get to full of ourselves, lets prove something in the playoffs. That is if we can get past the east coast bias and make the playoffs. ngineer I think Stang Fever is just a little bit upset that he was on the Poly team that did not make the playoffs last year and he feels that Lehigh was the team that took what he felt was their spot. He should hold no malice towards Lehigh but only the playoff selection committee. Both Lehigh and Harvard are great football programs and Lehigh played well last year in the playoffs losing to National Champions JMU by one point. Good luck to both Harvard and Lehigh the rest of the season.

[Stang Fever]

Stang Fever ngineer has a good point. Before we get to full of ourselves, lets prove something in the playoffs. That is if we can get past the east coast bias and make the playoffs. ngineer I think Stang Fever is just a little bit upset that he was on the Poly team that did not make the playoffs last year and he feels that Lehigh was the team that took what he felt was their spot. Good luck to both Harvard and Lehigh the rest of the season.


Yes that might be true...so i bash Lehigh a little more then needed..But for harvard fans...and Lehigh fans for that matter...we are only in to week 6 going into week 7 so all this bashing can still come in and bite me in the butt....But you still have never heard me say anything abut Poly in the Playoffs or winning the National Title...I take every game one game at a time...

[Sam Adams]

There is plenty of football left to be played. However it is pretty clear that
Harvard was overrated - sorry crimson, when you decide you want to play A10 teams again, then maybe you can complain, until then just enjoy being Harvard and stop pretending you matter in football.

Lehigh will probably do some damage before all is said and done.

[lugo02]

I said it from the start of the season...that both these teams are over-ratted...and for that i caught so much heat...Now who is right...Harvard no longer in the top 25...and Lehigh floating at the bottom of the rankings...
Still feeling the snub stang?
Get over it...
Make the playoffs this year and hope you meet a PL team.
The be prepared to get pasted.
FAU 2003

[colgate13]

The hatred towards PL and Ivy teams is what really kills me. How come you're not calling out Delaware fans for being overrated? Villanova? Wofford? Sam Houston State? Jacksonville State? Maine?

They are all teams that started off in the rankings and haven't performed up to expectations so far. Why don't you go start railing on them?

Better yet, here's another crazy idea: Maybe Holy Cross isn't so bad? They've been down, but they've got a new coach and a senior led team doing some very good things. Perhaps you need a I-AA history lesson: In 2002, Fordham came out of nowhere to upset Colgate early in the season and proceeded to win the Patriot League. They also proceeded to knock off their A-10 opponent in the first round of the playoffs. Anyone taking Holy Cross lightly just might meet a similar fate.

[Ivytalk]

The hatred towards PL and Ivy teams is what really kills me. How come you're not calling out Delaware fans for being overrated? Villanova? Wofford? Sam Houston State? Jacksonville State? Maine?

They are all teams that started off in the rankings and haven't performed up to expectations so far. Why don't you go start railing on them?

Better yet, here's another crazy idea: Maybe Holy Cross isn't so bad? They've been down, but they've got a new coach and a senior led team doing some very good things. Perhaps you need a I-AA history lesson: In 2002, Fordham came out of nowhere to upset Colgate early in the season and proceeded to win the Patriot League. They also proceeded to knock off their A-10 opponent in the first round of the playoffs. Anyone taking Holy Cross lightly just might meet a similar fate.

Good points, 13. I'm not happy that Harvard lost to Lehigh and Cornell, but the sun will still shine tomorrow (except in the East, according to the Weather Channel). Too friggin' many turnovers. :mad:

[atlGAmocs]

Ngineer i may not not be smart enough to have gone to an Ivy or Patriot league school, but I am smart enough to know that when the other team has more points at the end of the game that means one team has been beaten. It is laughable to see comments from fans that refuse to accept a loss. Delware and Holy Cross outplayed Lehigh and earned their victories.

[RadMann]

UD could be unranked and have a horrible season and you still could not get rid of most of the UD fans here... lol

[LUHawker]

Fear not, we annoying Lehigh fans are still here. Yes, we are smarting from a stunning loss, but we're not going away. :D I give credit to Holy Cross for hanging around and finding a way to win, but anything less than the monsoon that they played in and Lehigh wins by 14+. That doesn't make me feel any better because both the coaching and execution in the mud was poor. Still, I think this just makes the PL race much more interesting and I still think it could come down to Lafayette @ Lehigh in November (no offense to my Colgate or HC brethren). I wasn't on the board yesterday because I was still drying out from the game.

As a sidenote, similar to 13's feelings, I don't know why many who follow I-AA and post on this board dislikes the PL. The PL plays a good brand of football and proves it on the field during the year and in the playoffs. I harbor no particular dislike towards any other conference, so I struggle to appreciate the hatred that is expressed here. Oh well.

[Harvard Worship]

Hey Cornell made 4 turnovers themselves... So we were really only -1 on the day.
Just want to throw this out there, but Harvard isn't playing the same squad they beat Brown with. Our star WR is out for the season thanks to injuries from that game. Our Walter Peyton candidate RB has been injured and ineffective for two weeks thanks to the same Brown game. Our only senior WR is also out with a leg injury. There are serious injuries on the O-line (one inflicted by Brown). No surprise our rookie QB can't find anyone to throw to in a Harvard uniform.
Basically Brown University is a bunch of dirty rotten cheaters who decided that if they couldn't beat Harvard, they might as well make sure everyone else did. I hope they never win again.
But honestly I never saw why Harvard was ranked so highly except for nostalgia for last year's team, which without a doubt deserved a shot at the championship (The whole no-Ivies in the playoffs thing is vile). Our team this year had the least returning starters of any Ivy team, and we lost our two greatest playmakers, his godliness the QB Ryan Fitzpatrick and the untackleable WR and punt-return guru Brian Edwards. On top of that, we lost significant contributors to a defense that shut out two teams and kept 5 others to two touchdowns or below.
Face it, people, Harvard's just not the same team as last year. This is what happens in college football -- teams change year to year.
The way I see it, it's not the Harvard team that's being "exposed" so much as the ignorance of some of the poll voters and AGS forum members. I can't expect you guys to follow our team as closely as I do, but if you had, you'd have seen this coming long in advance. It's nothing to go trumpeting on about.

[rcny46]

Harvard Worship,you alluded to the fact that the Ivy League teams do not participate in the football playoffs.Do you happen to know why the league's institutions have no qualms regarding the member schools taking part(if qualified)in other NCAA championships-hockey and baseball for example?

[Stang Fever]

Page 58, I-AA.org Magazine 2005 Fall Preview:

"...The original intention of the rule changes for the league’s football programs was to keep the Ivies from falling victim to the perceived malady that was big-time college athletics. ... In 1981, half of the Ivy League failed to qualify for I-A status, so all eight squads decided to drop to I-AA. The change of Division I subclassification voided the Ivy presidents’ fears of being trapped in the big time college football arms race. But the ban wasn’t lifted. Instead, the presidents invented new arguments against postseason participation. The I-AA playoffs took place too close to the exam periods of several Ivy institutions, they said. ... Another idea the presidents float out there is that they don’t want the football players missing any more classes, and that the extension of the season would make this inevitable. ...The tradition of the Ivy League, embodied by Harvard and Yale’s season-ending showdown known as The Game, serves as another defense against lifting the postseason ban. ... The primary fear for the presidents, however, is that the drive for league championships can be controlled, whereas giving the eight Ivy squads a sniff of the national title could trigger the very arms race that had been abated five decades earlier. ..."

This is the stupidist thing I have ever heard...Presidents just making stuff up

[hawkineer]

They haven't been beaten all year and have given two games away. The closest thing to a good game was at Harvard.
You can't have it both ways. They lost to both Delaware and Holy Cross. Delaware certainly deserves credit from coming back twice from 14 points down in the 4th quarter. Not sure how LU gave that game away except that they ran out of gas at the end. It certainly should have never gotten to OT, so you can't blame the missed PAT. Holy Cross made two plays in the muck in the 4th quarter. LU made none. It's curious the LUs "closest to a good game" included Harvard turning the ball over continuously in the 2nd half in their own territory. Was Harvard beaten or did they just give the game away? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ngineer]

"Giving a game away" occurs when you beat yourself with mistakes, rather than being outplayed by the opposition. Like pornography, you know it when you see it. I was at both UD and HC games and with missed field goals, lost fumbles deep in the opposition's red zone, and critical penalties that result in change of possession/drastic change of field position are mistakes that a focused player/team should not be making so frequently. What is so frustrating is seeing how physically good the team is but coming up short to date.
Lehigh, as a school, has historically been known as a school of 'overachievers'. The ones with the little 'chip' on the shoulder for not getting into the Ivies, but still excelling and exceeding most people's expectations. What has happened with football is that we've become drunk with success, when the worst season in the last seven years was going 8-4. In 122 years of football, Lehigh has only had 24 seasons where they won 8 or more games, and 17 of those were since 1971 (virtually half of the last 34 years!). So we've come to expect 'more'. I've never been upset with getting beat. It's happened plenty of times, which I've acknowledged--JMU and Lafayette last year for example.
Currently, Lehigh is a 'good' football team. They will have to decide, starting this weekend how great they can become. They will likely have to run the table to make the playoffs. They have the talent to do so-and make noise once they get there. But, they need to look into the mirror and their hearts to determine whether they have what it takes.

[Stang Fever]

"Giving a game away" occurs when you beat yourself with mistakes, rather than being outplayed by the opposition. Like pornography, you know it when you see it. I was at both UD and HC games and with missed field goals, lost fumbles deep in the opposition's red zone, and critical penalties that result in change of possession/drastic change of field position are mistakes that a focused player/team should not be making so frequently. What is so frustrating is seeing how physically good the team is but coming up short to date.
Lehigh, as a school, has historically been known as a school of 'overachievers'. The ones with the little 'chip' on the shoulder for not getting into the Ivies, but still excelling and exceeding most people's expectations. What has happened with football is that we've become drunk with success, when the worst season in the last seven years was going 8-4. In 122 years of football, Lehigh has only had 24 seasons where they won 8 or more games, and 17 of those were since 1971 (virtually half of the last 34 years!). So we've come to expect 'more'. I've never been upset with getting beat. It's happened plenty of times, which I've acknowledged--JMU and Lafayette last year for example.
Currently, Lehigh is a 'good' football team. They will have to decide, starting this weekend how great they can become. They will likely have to run the table to make the playoffs. They have the talent to do so-and make noise once they get there. But, they need to look into the mirror and their hearts to determine whether they have what it takes.


So do you have a hard time giving credit to the others teams defense...Turning the ball over sounds like the defense is making plays...in a football game you dont just always get pushed around by a big stronger team...You can get out coached...etc....Just face it it...Lehigh is not the team you thought they would be

[ngineer]

I don't see Lehigh having been out-coached at all. In fact the coaches have put the players in positions to win everyone of their games. The students haven't executed, plain and simple. I will grant the some fumbles can be caused by defense, but in my long experience, I venture that 90% of all fumbles are due to the ball carrier not being focused or using improper technique (with the understanding that weather conditions will effect that percentage--but even still, in such conditions, the carrier needs to be even more aware of the need to protect the ball). Lehigh has the personnel that is every bit as good as anticipated this year. So far, they have failed to execute as expected. As stated in my earlier post, they are underachieving right now, but still have time to recover. It's why we play the game rather than rely on polls. I believe the current poll is generally a good reflection of the current state of I-AA. I voted Cal Poly in my top 5 and if they execute in the next coming weeks the #1 ranking is there to be taken.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I've been here too, but my cold that was comming on midweek turned into 48 hours of hell after sitting out in the rain Saturday, it's also midterm week here at Temple. As for the game it is what it is, i was dissapointed of course that they lost but they lost because of the weather. However, I'm not ready to pack in the rest of the season. This team is the most talented team in the league still. They've lost two fluke games because they did not execute properly. The coaching might not have been great but neither has the play. IMO, this years losses has been less about the coaching and more about the mental mistakes of the players than any of the previous years. I'll be at Goodman Saturday interested to see how the team responds. They get by Yale they have a gimmie against Bucknell before heading up to Colgate. Basically IMO, this is a 2 game season as long as injuries or another monsoon don't creep up. The finish strong with a 9-2 record they'll make the playoffs no doubt. Heck, they're still #20 and could easily be back in the top 10. It's one game at a time players though, leave everything else for the fans. I bet Ohio State didn't think they'd be 3-2 or Michigan would be 3-3. 11-0 and 10-1's just don't happen every year ask FSU, Miami, Notre Dame under Holtz, some time the breaks are with you sometimes they're not. Like i said after the Delaware game, karma was on our side in '98 a lot, remember Columbia, freakin Columbia, dreadful St. Mary's? How bout '99 14-12 escape against Lafayette, or 2000 near loss against Princeton; 2001 it was Trevor Dimmie. Sometimes you just use up all of your goodluck sometimes. If everyone stays 100% committed in this program the only people that will be unhappy is those who expect to go undefeated or 10-1 against a league comp that is much better than it was 5-6 years ago.

P.S for all those who want Lembo out how about a Bobby Wallace for Pete Lembo trade? If you didn't hear Temple is releasing Wallace after the year,.

[ngineer]

I've been here too, but my cold that was comming on midweek turned into 48 hours of hell after sitting out in the rain Saturday, it's also midterm week here at Temple. As for the game it is what it is, i was dissapointed of course that they lost but they lost because of the weather. However, I'm not ready to pack in the rest of the season. This team is the most talented team in the league still. They've lost two fluke games because they did not execute properly. The coaching might not have been great but neither has the play. IMO, this years losses has been less about the coaching and more about the mental mistakes of the players than any of the previous years. I'll be at Goodman Saturday interested to see how the team responds. They get by Yale they have a gimmie against Bucknell before heading up to Colgate. Basically IMO, this is a 2 game season as long as injuries or another monsoon don't creep up. The finish strong with a 9-2 record they'll make the playoffs no doubt. Heck, they're still #20 and could easily be back in the top 10. It's one game at a time players though, leave everything else for the fans. I bet Ohio State didn't think they'd be 3-2 or Michigan would be 3-3. 11-0 and 10-1's just don't happen every year ask FSU, Miami, Notre Dame under Holtz, some time the breaks are with you sometimes they're not. Like i said after the Delaware game, karma was on our side in '98 a lot, remember Columbia, freakin Columbia, dreadful St. Mary's? How bout '99 14-12 escape against Lafayette, or 2000 near loss against Princeton; 2001 it was Trevor Dimmie. Sometimes you just use up all of your goodluck sometimes. If everyone stays 100% committed in this program the only people that will be unhappy is those who expect to go undefeated or 10-1 against a league comp that is much better than it was 5-6 years ago.

P.S for all those who want Lembo out how about a Bobby Wallace for Pete Lembo trade? If you didn't hear Temple is releasing Wallace after the year,.

Don't really disagree with anything you said. Football takes funny bounces, hence the shape of the ball. However, I feel sorry for Wallace. He's a good coach who showed as much at North Alabama. Temple just didn't give him the necessary support (nor maybe can they). I doubt Meyer or Callahan would do much different in that circumstance.

[colgate13]

This is the stupidist thing I have ever heard...Presidents just making stuff up

For once, I'll agree with you. It is one of the biggest shams in all of the NCAA. The Ivys participate in every other postseason but football. I don't hear the presidents worried about Ivy lacrosse, hockey, soccer, swimming, etc.

[ChickenMan]

"Giving a game away" occurs when you beat yourself with mistakes, rather than being outplayed by the opposition. Like pornography, you know it when you see it. I was at both UD and HC games and with missed field goals, lost fumbles deep in the opposition's red zone, and critical penalties that result in change of possession/drastic change of field position are mistakes that a focused player/team should not be making so frequently. What is so frustrating is seeing how physically good the team is but coming up short to date.


Please Lehigh... like UD is 3-2... because they got beat on the field by both UD and HC. Delaware is 3-2 and they got BEAT by Towson and Hofstra. Excuses are like you know what... everyone's got one. Sure LU made mistakes vs UD... but the mistakes went both ways... like UD fumbling a KO return at their own 25... like snapping the ball over the punters head for a safety... like dropping a long pass that would have been an 80 yrd TD. Face it... LU just like UD... ain't all that good...

[ngineer]

I don't think we disagree. The team that makes the most critical mistakes beats itself. I'm not talking about all mistakes--because everyone makes them through out the game. It is those made that cause key turning points in the game that need to be eliminated. Any team that makes crucial mistakes game after game that causes the momentum to turn or actually results in points for the opposition is very good.

[Stang Fever]

Mental mistakes are party of the game....you have to win the mental game to...i.e costly fumbles in your end zone...snaps over the head....rain (weather is part of the game) so just say you lost and call it a day.

[hawkineer]

I don't see Lehigh having been out-coached at all. haven't executed, plain and simple. I venture that 90% of all fumbles are due to the ball carrier not being focused or using improper technique ( So far, they have failed to execute as expected. they are underachieving right now,
Look at the phrases you used. "haven't executed", "improper technique, "failed to execute as expected", "underachieving". What symptons would you look for an ineffective coaching staff? You really need to read some of the posting on the Lehigh board. There are some pretty damning statements regarding Lembo. http://www.voy.com/82659/

I admit that I've never been a Lembo fan including in 2001. That team and coaching staff was Higgins' and performed like a Higgins' team.

I would trade Lembo any day for Bobby Wallace. At least Bobby Wallace has a resume that includes a National Championship.

[blukeys]

I would trade Lembo any day for Bobby Wallace. At least Bobby Wallace has a resume that includes a National Championship.

Couldn't agree more. A decent guy and good coach who just made a tremendously bad career decision. Wallace definitely deserved better and leaves the program with class which is more than I can say how the program treated him in 8 years. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[blukeys]

I don't think we disagree. The team that makes the most critical mistakes beats itself. I'm not talking about all mistakes--because everyone makes them through out the game. It is those made that cause key turning points in the game that need to be eliminated. Any team that makes crucial mistakes game after game that causes the momentum to turn or actually results in points for the opposition is very good.

Why isn't there any respect shown for the fact that Holy Cross plays a mistake free ball game? After the UD-HC game many UD posters stated that Holy Cross had the makings of a dangerous team. They don't turn the ball over and they don't make dumb mistakes. Give me a team that has a positive turnover ratio and I will show you a winner. After seeing both HC and Lehigh I was convinced that Holy Cross could be a very capable Patriot League team. HC may not blow people out but they are more than capable of winning very difficult tight games. With Silva I see HC as having the talent edge on Colgate and being close to Lafayette. If HC's defense plays well the team can be difficult for anyone. HC is overall not the most talented team I have seen but they are disciplined, don't beat themselves, and have players who can take over at key points in the game when it is close. They are a very dangerous team on any given saturday. :)

[ngineer]

Look at the phrases you used. "haven't executed", "improper technique, "failed to execute as expected", "underachieving". What symptons would you look for an ineffective coaching staff? You really need to read some of the posting on the Lehigh board. There are some pretty damning statements regarding Lembo. http://www.voy.com/82659/

I admit that I've never been a Lembo fan including in 2001. That team and coaching staff was Higgins' and performed like a Higgins' team.

I would trade Lembo any day for Bobby Wallace. At least Bobby Wallace has a resume that includes a National Championship.

Faceless names and alias condemning a person because his win/loss percentage in his 4 1/2 years is 75%. The gutless wonders who like to 'critique' someone and call for one's head amaze me. Yes, I'm disappointed that Lehigh has lost a couple games this year that I think they should have won. The problem is the mindset of today's "fan"--they are SportsCentered to death and place demands on their college program based upon the mindset of overanalyzing coaches rather than thinking about what a college athletic program is supposed to do. How would John Whitehead have fared in this atmosphere? He only had two seasons in ten where the team lost less than 3 games. When players drop a pass, miss a field goal, fumble a ball it's the coach's fault. I'm reminded of the late, great coach John McKay, who when asked by a reporter what he thought of his team's (Tampa Bay) execution; responded that he, "thought it was a good idea." If Lehigh were getting run out of the stadium, run over by better conditioning, or schemed on a regular basis, I'd agree a coaching change can be considered. But that is not what is occuring here.

[ngineer]

Why isn't there any respect shown for the fact that Holy Cross plays a mistake free ball game? After the UD-HC game many UD posters stated that Holy Cross had the makings of a dangerous team. They don't turn the ball over and they don't make dumb mistakes. Give me a team that has a positive turnover ratio and I will show you a winner. After seeing both HC and Lehigh I was convinced that Holy Cross could be a very capable Patriot League team. HC may not blow people out but they are more than capable of winning very difficult tight games. With Silva I see HC as having the talent edge on Colgate and being close to Lafayette. If HC's defense plays well the team can be difficult for anyone. HC is overall not the most talented team I have seen but they are disciplined, don't beat themselves, and have players who can take over at key points in the game when it is close. They are a very dangerous team on any given saturday. :)

I think I have. Holy Cross deserved to win the game because they made substantially less mistakes. The only point I've been making, and maybe not artfully enough :bang: , is that Lehigh has better personnel in terms of physical ability and has beaten itself because of mistakes. Yes, they are part of the game, but imo, Lehigh beats HC 80% of the time. That 20% can be nasty. :(
Done. :deadhorse