Texas State Fan Living In Dreamworld

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Surprised TT hasn't seized on this one...

http://aarongadberry.com/bobcatfans/archives/24


Currently, a huge opportunity for Texas State lies in the hands of the University. The outcome of this move to FBS could drastically change how people in Texas and the rest of the country see Texas State University. Of course, the approval means much more than just changing football classifications. The students’ recent approval to fund the move to FBS will allow Texas State to reach the athletic potential that most of us believe is possible.

Read on...


Among other things, this move will help build new athletic facilities and improve upon existing facilities. We could see a football stadium that seats 25,000 fans, an improved press box, as well as a remarkable game day experience that we will all be able to enjoy not only as students but as alumni. We would have the opportunity to come back to Bobcat Stadium as alumni and see our Bobcats take on the likes of Houston, SMU, UTEP, Rice, and maybe even Oklahoma State or Baylor. This could bring in additional revenue and national recognition to our university. Before you naysayers declare this as impossible, don’t forget that a former Southland Conference foe, Troy, was able to bring in the Big 12’s Oklahoma State Cowboys and defeat them this past season.

So the fact that Troy got OSU to come to visit them ONCE is a good reason to go FBS? Oooooooooooooooooo kay... right.... next...


Not only does this give Texas State the opportunity to compete at the highest level in college football, it also elevates every sport in which Texas State participates. For example, the student fees will allow two of our most nationally competitive sports, Baseball and Softball, to take their programs to a different level. As of now both teams are very competitive, but through the additional student fees, we will be able to build a new Baseball and Softball Complex. This new complex will allow the Bobcats to bring in top competition for non-conference games, which give these respective teams the experience needed to excel in conference, as well as prepare themselves for the NCAA tournament. Furthermore, the new facilities will allow Texas State recruiters to bring in the best talent available to this University that we all love.

So playing in the Sun Belch will "elevate" their baseball softball programs? Um. sure, right. That's the first time I've heard that doubling your spending on FOOTBALL will cause upgrades to be made to BASEBALL. Last I checked, they play in different stadiums. Next...


Changing conferences would also place Texas State into a conference that often receives multiple NCAA tournament bids in volleyball, basketball, and baseball. Currently, we are in the Southland Conference. Generally speaking, the conference is a one bid conference for all sports aforementioned. This means if you don’t win the conference tournament, you are sitting at home when it comes time for the NCAA tournament. This in turn nullifies any success that the Bobcats may or may not have had during the regular season.

http://www.sunbeltsports.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4100&ATCLID=1413281


South Alabama and Western Kentucky University each earned berths in the 2008 NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament, marking the first season of multiple NCAA tournament appearances for the Sun Belt Conference since 1994.

xlolx Wow, multiple bids twice in the past 14 years! Be still my heart! xlolx Next...


All of this being said, there is no guarantee that Texas State will land itself in the FBS and consequently in a different conference. However, since we already compete at the highest collegiate level in every sport except football, with the students’ vote to move to FBS it is now very possible for Texas State to have the facilities necessary to be even more competitive, regardless of the conference the Bobcats are in. After all the facilities are built, Texas State would have a football atmosphere that is very attractive, allowing us to either be competitive at the FBS level or possibly dominant at the FCS level. Seems like a win-win situation for our Bobcats.

Talk about dominating at the FCS level is pretty comical when you consider that they've never dominated at the FCS level. And what is the atmosphere now, chopped liver?

And she neglects to talk about the reality of life in the Sun Belt... the inability to get good home games... the New Orleans Bowl... the increase in spending outpacing the increase in revenue... the fact that it might take a decade or more to field a team that's competitive (like Troy)... the inability to compete for a glass trophy...


By: Jody Campbell [email protected]

[nwFL Griz]

That is some over the top stuff there.

If alot of Texas St fans are like this, they are setting themselves up for failure by not having realistic expectations.

Texas St, currently, is an average FCS team. And likely would be a cellar dweller in the Sun Belt for quite a few years, if they did move to FBS. That would not only hurt football, but might spill over to the other sports, in a negative way.

[FargoBison]

I laugh at any FCS school that thinks joining the Sun Belt is some kind of step up to anything. The conference is completely irrelevant, most BCS fans probably think the Sun Belt is FCS.

[Killtoppers90]

I laugh at any FCS school that thinks joining the Sun Belt is some kind of step up to anything. The conference is completely irrelevant, most BCS fans probably think the Sun Belt is FCS.

We've gotten more press, more recognition this past year in the SBC than overall in the minor leagues!

[nwFL Griz]

I laugh at any FCS school that thinks joining the Sun Belt is some kind of step up to anything. The conference is completely irrelevant, most BCS fans probably think the Sun Belt is FCS.

Whether you think it is or not, the Sun Belt is a step up from FCS. With the bowl system and BCS, there is a lot more money available to the member institutions than in FCS.

Competition-wise, the Sun Belt would probably be a top FCS conference, even though it is lower FBS.

[FargoBison]

We've gotten more press, more recognition this past year in the SBC than overall in the minor leagues!

SBC is the minor leagues, anything not BCS is the minor leagues. At least you r enjoying your obscurity but at the national level the SBC isn't much of anything and won't be until one of its teams does something on a national level.

[FargoBison]

Whether you think it is or not, the Sun Belt is a step up from FCS. With the bowl system and BCS, there is a lot more money available to the member institutions than in FCS.

Competition-wise, the Sun Belt would probably be a top FCS conference, even though it is lower FBS.

I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about prestige and respect and in those terms the SBC is barely a step-up from the FCS(the conference has horrible bowl tie-ins). I do agree about the SBC being an upper level FCS conference, it is probably on par with the Southern Conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about prestige and respect and in those terms the SBC is barely a step-up from the FCS(the conference has horrible bowl tie-ins). I do agree about the SBC being an upper level FCS conference, it is probably on par with the Southern Conference.

Except Appalachian State can schedule Michigan and beat them, and make a profit from their football program.

Carry on...

xpopcornx

[Killtoppers90]

I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about prestige and respect and in those terms the SBC is barely a step-up from the FCS(the conference has horrible bowl tie-ins). I do agree about the SBC being an upper level FCS conference, it is probably on par with the Southern Conference.

I can bet more people know of SBC teams than a majotirty of the FCS. I have talked to enough people to know that for a fact - most people don't even know there are schools in ND or SD let alone colleges that play football.

[McNeese_beat]

We've gotten more press, more recognition this past year in the SBC than overall in the minor leagues!

The press for the Sun Belt is mostly bad. As in "The Sun Belt is the worst conference in Division I-A." Or, "there are too many teams in I-A. When you have a Sun Belt Conference, things are too watered down."

In Louisiana, it's been noted that McNeese has NEVER lost to a current member of the Sun Belt (wins over Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Lafayette and FIU...the FIU win came in a 4-7 season all the wins were on the road...).

I don't think that's really the kind of press you are looking for, unless your theory is that any press is good press...

[FargoBison]

I can bet more people know of SBC teams than a majotirty of the FCS. I have talked to enough people to know that for a fact - most people don't even know there are schools in ND or SD let alone colleges that play football.

I could say the same thing about Western Kentucky, ULL ULM.....

[Killtoppers90]

I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about prestige and respect and in those terms the SBC is barely a step-up from the FCS(the conference has horrible bowl tie-ins). I do agree about the SBC being an upper level FCS conference, it is probably on par with the Southern Conference.

I can bet more people know of SBC teams than a majotirty of the FCS. I have talked to enough people to know that for a fact - most people don't even know there are schools in ND or SD let alone colleges that play football.

[Killtoppers90]

I could say the same thing about Western Kentucky.....

You could but you'd be wrong!

[FargoBison]

You could but you'd be wrong!

I'm pretty sure if you guys played the Gophers they would think you were some FCS school. I've often seen Sun Belt teams mentioned as being the same as NDSU in the Star Tribune(largest paper in the region, based out of Minneapolis).

[KiddBrewer]

SoCon/CAA > SunBelt

[Ronbo]

Everyone looks at Boise State, only 12 years removed from I-AA and thinks they can do it. Heck even Nevada has had some good success in Football and is considered a very good Basketball program. Both schools would still be relatively unknown in FCS.

[FargoBison]

Everyone looks at Boise State, only 12 years removed from I-AA and thinks they can do it. Heck even Nevada has had some good success in Football and is considered a very good Basketball program. Both schools would still be relatively unknown in FCS.

WAC is a little different then the Sun belt, schools in that conference have actually made an impact at the national level. The conference has earned some respect and prestige, something the New Orleans bowl will never give SBC.

[Killtoppers90]

I'm pretty sure if you guys played the Gophers they would think you were some FCS school. I've often seen Sun Belt teams mentioned as being the same as NDSU in the Star Tribune(largest paper in the region, based out of Minneapolis).

Journalists have never been known for their accuracy of level of competition so that rebuttal has many flaws. Care to try again?

[FargoBison]

Journalists have never been known for their accuracy of level of competition so that rebuttal has many flaws. Care to try again?

If the media can't give your league exposure, you are nothing in the FBS. If journalists don't even know what level your league plays at, you have problems.

[Killtoppers90]

If the media can't give your league exposure, you are nothing in the FBS. If journalists don't even know what level your league plays at, you have problems.

I can remember countless times in FCS where WKU, EKU and others were mis-classified by various journalists. It is not difficult to find out what league and division the colleges one is covering play in - it is just a lack of concern on their part to do so. I have found less of this since moving up to FBS and the SBC.

[Ronbo]

WAC is a little different then the Sun belt, schools in that conference have actually made an impact at the national level. The conference has earned some respect and prestige, something the New Orleans bowl will never give SBC.

Al it will take is one school in the SBC to make a run like Boise State has and it puts them on the map.

[FargoBison]

Al it will take is one school in the SBC to make a run like Boise State has and it puts them on the map.

I'll believe it when I see it....Don't forget WAC schools are larger for the most part and I believe a few are state flagships. The Sun Belt is just a collection of regional schools, like the OVC or Southland.

[TheRiver]

Sorry but I have never hear about any of yours school before SHSU went to the playoffs sorry I might be dumb but I'm the avg. person out there.

But i have heard of more the 1/2 the Sun Belt. teams and watched them on TV more then once a year, why you may ask; because they are seen as having a bigger football school, even if they do suck they still have more coverage. Maybe all of you are dreaming about how much press the FCS gets and how people see it.

Just Saying form the Average guy I'm not saying one is a better football then the other but one is. There is less FCS coverage well here in Texas then high school football. You will not hear any major media unless your on a FCS website or blog or something, or if your one of the great teams that knock off a BCS Team or one of the lucky 4 that make it to the playoff games that are on TV, that people really watch.

Sorry FCS is great football maybe better then BSC as a from of football is but 90% of people don't care.

[DFW HOYA]

SoCon/CAA > SunBelt

Not in Texas, and that's where SWT, er Texas State-San Marcos is coming from. The Sun Belt opens the door for a number of scheduling opportunities they can't get in the Southland, plus a bowl apeparance, however slight, in New Orleans. Out here, a bowl is 10x more valuable in publicity than any playoff bid.

The Southland is the only I-AA conference available to the Bobcats within 500 miles (the SWAC isn't expanding outside the HBCU's). By that choice, and the fact that a number of area and former SLC opponents have moved to the Belt (North Texas, Louisiana-Monroe, Ark State, Troy, etc.) it's a more attractive option than a region where there are multiple conference options.

[Killtoppers90]

Al it will take is one school in the SBC to make a run like Boise State has and it puts them on the map.

And with a great run in THE NCAA Tourney this year, we are on our way!

[FargoBison]

And with a great run in THE NCAA Tourney this year, we are on our way!

So is the Southern Conference on their way as well???? Davidson had a pretty nice run.....

[Killtoppers90]

So is the Southern Conference on their way as well???? Davidson had a pretty nice run.....

I would say a resounding YES there! The SoCon is tough top to bottom. Look, I am far from bashing the FCS, I love the game, the competition and playoffs but I like being a part of the conversation of the big leagues, whether we are the laughing stocks or not.

[Franks Tanks]

I would say a resounding YES there! The SoCon is tough top to bottom. Look, I am far from bashing the FCS, I love the game, the competition and playoffs but I like being a part of the conversation of the big leagues, whether we are the laughing stocks or not.

You can get smashed by Florida as an FCS or FBS school. The sun-belt is really only psudeo FBS--you play in a bowl no one cares about that is sponsored by your league and probably loses money. The best you will ever do is playing in a joke of a bowl game before Christmas againt the 4th place team in some other terrible league.

[chrisattsu]

Not in Texas, and that's where SWT, er Texas State-San Marcos is coming from. The Sun Belt opens the door for a number of scheduling opportunities they can't get in the Southland, plus a bowl apeparance, however slight, in New Orleans. Out here, a bowl is 10x more valuable in publicity than any playoff bid.

The Southland is the only I-AA conference available to the Bobcats within 500 miles (the SWAC isn't expanding outside the HBCU's). By that choice, and the fact that a number of area and former SLC opponents have moved to the Belt (North Texas, Louisiana-Monroe, Ark State, Troy, etc.) it's a more attractive option than a region where there are multiple conference options.

I completely agree with you Hoya. The Sunbelt may not have the national reputation of other FBS conferences, but it is still a FBS conference. It is all about who you can get the opportunity to play. In Texas, UNT is still considered D1, while Southland schools are D2 in the eyes of our local media (and thus the common fan).

[TexasTerror]

Thanks for posting LFN...

Not surprised by what has been said. Most of the sentiments shared by Jody are pretty much the same things we've been reading from the Bobcat fan base for sometime.

He actually did not reach the levels of some of the people, the athletic director included, in inaccurately painting the landscape that will exist for Texas State - San Marcos.

The athletic director, of course, being the one that did not understand that they are already a Division I institution and then the other leaders (particular their student leaders, who belittled the SLC and the schools that routinely push around the Bobcats on the field of play) pushing the move, really painting the wrong picture...

[Killtoppers90]

You can get smashed by Florida as an FCS or FBS school. The sun-belt is really only psudeo FBS--you play in a bowl no one cares about that is sponsored by your league and probably loses money. The best you will ever do is playing in a joke of a bowl game before Christmas againt the 4th place team in some other terrible league.

And as soon as you can play in one, come and talk to me Frank! But at least we will be on ESPN unlike you guys.

[Killtoppers90]

I completely agree with you Hoya. The Sunbelt may not have the national reputation of other FBS conferences, but it is still a FBS conference. It is all about who you can get the opportunity to play. In Texas, UNT is still considered D1, while Southland schools are D2 in the eyes of our local media (and thus the common fan).
That is precisely the stigma of the FBS, whether or not it is accurate or fair.

[Franks Tanks]

And as soon as you can play in one, come and talk to me Frank! But at least we will be on ESPN unlike you guys.

You can tell us when your sorry asses get to play in a bowl game. Many PL schools have played in bowl games in the past, and decided not to spend copius amounts of money to continue to try to do so. We are happy where we are, unlike the Sun belt and its inferiority complex.

[Killtoppers90]

You can tell us when your sorry asses get to play in a bowl game. Many PL schools have played in bowl games in the past, and decided not to spend copius amounts of money to continue to try to do so. We are happy where we are, unlike the Sun belt and its inferiority complex.

No inferior complex here Frank. We KNOW we are better than you! And you know damn good and well if you had the chance to move up you'd do it.

[Franks Tanks]

No inferior complex here Frank. We KNOW we are better than you! And you know damn good and well if you had the chance to move up you'd do it.

Actually we wouldnt. Most (if not all) of the schools in the PL and Ivy League could have maintained a higher profile program but decided not to years ago. Love smack talk from non-descript directional state university.

[Killtoppers90]

Actually we wouldnt. Most (if not all) of the schools in the PL and Ivy League could have maintained a higher profile program but decided not to years ago. Love smack talk from non-descript directional state university.

Weak smack Frank! If that is all you have, stay home!

[chrisattsu]

The outcome of this move to FBS could drastically change how people in Texas and the rest of the country see Texas State University.

Jody is right. Moving to another conference and playing teams that local, regional, and national media care about will change public perception. For good or for bad, but they will have heard of us.

Among other things, this move will help build new athletic facilities and improve upon existing facilities.
True. Already happening

We could see a football stadium that seats 25,000 fans, an improved press box, as well as a remarkable game day experience that we will all be able to enjoy not only as students but as alumni.

Campus Master plan already calls for it.

We would have the opportunity to come back to Bobcat Stadium as alumni and see our Bobcats take on the likes of Houston, SMU, UTEP, Rice, and maybe even Oklahoma State or Baylor.

This is what the fanbase wants. Shouldn't the AD be responsible for developing a product that students, alumni, and stakeholders want to see?
I enjoy rivalry games against Sam and SFA, but wants a shot against a bigger dog. This gives us more shots.

Not only does this give Texas State the opportunity to compete at the highest level in college football

True

the additional student fees, we will be able to build a new Baseball and Softball Complex. This new complex will allow the Bobcats to bring in top competition for non-conference games, which give these respective teams the experience needed to excel in conference, as well as prepare themselves for the NCAA tournament.

True

Changing conferences would also place Texas State into a conference that often receives multiple NCAA tournament bids in volleyball, basketball, and baseball.

He's right. For all of the naysayers that say the Sunbelt's two bids is not good. The last time I checked 2 is still greater than 1. Time and again, our season leaders get bumped in a conference tourney, or our runner-ups have great records, but they don't get an invite because we are not respected in the eyes of the selection committees.


BTW- Jody is a guy.

[Franks Tanks]

Weak smack Frank! If that is all you have, stay home!


I am not attempting to smack, just pointing out the facts.

[jcf5445]

Have many of you forgotten what most of the Sun Belt schools accomplished at the I-AA level? I'd love to know the combined number of playoff appearances, playoff wins, conference championships, and championship appearances by the 9 members of the Sun Belt (including WKU). I'd count it up myself, but I don't have the time. I do know however, that there are a couple of former national champions in the SBC, one of which belonging to one of those UL hyphenated teams that "nobody has ever heard of."

I just don't understand why FCS fans bash former FCS powers when they move up. Yes, the Sun Belt is probably the weakest conference from top to bottom in FBS, but last season they had much better attendance than any FCS conference, and their attendance was even better than the MAC (if you include WKU). They get much more national exposure than any FCS team (sans Appalachian State, whom nobody even knew was a 2 time defending FCS champ until they beat Michigan). Heck, here in the south, Louisiana-Monroe got almost as much attention for knocking off Alabama this past year. I see the Sun Belt as a conference on the way up. FAU and FIU will have state of the art stadiums within a few years. They regularly schedule games against SEC schools, and they occassionally win. They've won the last couple of New Orleans Bowls, and a 2nd bowl bid isn't far off.

I guess my point is that if a school or group of schools wants to achieve at the highest level possible, then why bash them for trying? After all, most national powers were not created overnight, and there will never be another Boise State if nobody dares to try. The Sun Belt has only existed for 7 years. Give it about 10 more and let's revisit this discussion.

[nwFL Griz]

We would have the opportunity to come back to Bobcat Stadium as alumni and see our Bobcats take on the likes of Houston, SMU, UTEP, Rice, and maybe even Oklahoma State or Baylor.[/B]

This is what the fanbase wants. Shouldn't the AD be responsible for developing a product that students, alumni, and stakeholders want to see?
I enjoy rivalry games against Sam and SFA, but wants a shot against a bigger dog. This gives us more shots.

Gives you more shots at what? Hosting a game with one of those schools?

Outside of CUSA and the MAC, you would have a slim-to-none opportunity to host a game. We're talking about once every few years does a SBC team get to host a game against a school in the big six. And then it would probably take a two or three for one. So while your competition may increase overall by playing conference mates, the majority of your OOC will be on the road, or at home vs MAC, CUSA, MWC.

[Killtoppers90]

Love smack talk from non-descript directional state university.

Oh yeah Frank. I forgot THAT was the truth. Thanks for reminding me! xcoffeex

[Franks Tanks]

Gives you more shots at what? Hosting a game with one of those schools?

Outside of CUSA and the MAC, you would have a slim-to-none opportunity to host a game. We're talking about once every few years does a SBC team get to host a game against a school in the big six. And then it would probably take a two or three for one. So while your competition may increase overall by playing conference mates, the majority of your OOC will be on the road, or at home vs MAC, CUSA, MWC.

yes but Troy hosted Okie State once!!! Its all worth it

[Killtoppers90]

Have many of you forgotten what most of the Sun Belt schools accomplished at the I-AA level? I'd love to know the combined number of playoff appearances, playoff wins, conference championships, and championship appearances by the 9 members of the Sun Belt (including WKU). I'd count it up myself, but I don't have the time. I do know however, that there are a couple of former national champions in the SBC, one of which belonging to one of those UL hyphenated teams that "nobody has ever heard of."

I just don't understand why FCS fans bash former FCS powers when they move up. Yes, the Sun Belt is probably the weakest conference from top to bottom in FBS, but last season they had much better attendance than any FCS conference, and their attendance was even better than the MAC (if you include WKU). They get much more national exposure than any FCS team (sans Appalachian State, whom nobody even knew was a 2 time defending FCS champ until they beat Michigan). Heck, here in the south, Louisiana-Monroe got almost as much attention for knocking off Alabama this past year. I see the Sun Belt as a conference on the way up. FAU and FIU will have state of the art stadiums within a few years. They regularly schedule games against SEC schools, and they occassionally win. They've won the last couple of New Orleans Bowls, and a 2nd bowl bid isn't far off.

I guess my point is that if a school or group of schools wants to achieve at the highest level possible, then why bash them for trying? After all, most national powers were not created overnight, and there will never be another Boise State if nobody dares to try. The Sun Belt has only existed for 7 years. Give it about 10 more and let's revisit this discussion.

Wow...an Open mind. That was refreshing. Thanks jcf!

[ncbears]

We've gotten more press, more recognition this past year in the SBC than overall in the minor leagues!

That's because you're in Kentucky. Not many FBS teams, unlike Texas.

[Killtoppers90]

That's because you're in Kentucky. Not many FBS teams, unlike Texas.

Well I live in Atlanta, so I was talking about media from here, in NY or DC and nationally as well as our little podunk state! But thanks for trying.

[TexasTerror]

My general feeling on the Sun Belt Conference is that it is a relatively young football conference compared to the others, both as a league as a whole and the members within it (all relatively new to the FBS scene).

They have made some qualitative steps in recent years as far as football and are already a strong baseball conference (one of five, I believe to send at least two to the baseball tourney every year since the 1980s). Sent two VB teams (one to Sweet 16), will send atleast two MGolf teams to NCAAs and the league as a whole is improving elsewhere.

Question is -- can they get a second bowl bid? Will they be in position in the next 3-5 years to have a BCS team?

As it relates to the Bobcats of Texas State-San Marcos, there are better options than adding them if you are looking to improve from a football standpoint and basketball standpoint.

[Killtoppers90]

Question is -- can they get a second bowl bid? Will they be in position in the next 3-5 years to have a BCS team?

We are working on it. I hear the SBC is trying to make a deal with another bowl as we speak. I would love to be in one in the next few years. I'll keep you posted.

[nwFL Griz]

yes but Troy hosted Okie State once!!! Its all worth it

I'm in total agreement with the sarcasm (meaning I don't think it is worth it)...but don't misunderstand my point. I'm all for teams doing what they want to, including moving up....but I would prefer to see their administrations and their fans have realistic expectations.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The outcome of this move to FBS could drastically change how people in Texas and the rest of the country see Texas State University.

Jody is right. Moving to another conference and playing teams that local, regional, and national media care about will change public perception. For good or for bad, but they will have heard of us.

Could - or could not. Who has really, really heard of Louisiana-Lafayette and the fact that they beat a mediocre Alabama team? I'd bet more people know who Appalachian State is over Louisiana-Lafayette.


Among other things, this move will help build new athletic facilities and improve upon existing facilities.

True. Already happening

We could see a football stadium that seats 25,000 fans, an improved press box, as well as a remarkable game day experience that we will all be able to enjoy not only as students but as alumni.

Campus Master plan already calls for it.

True - of course, this could all be accomplished without moving to FBS...


We would have the opportunity to come back to Bobcat Stadium as alumni and see our Bobcats take on the likes of Houston, SMU, UTEP, Rice, and maybe even Oklahoma State or Baylor.

This is what the fanbase wants. Shouldn't the AD be responsible for developing a product that students, alumni, and stakeholders want to see?
I enjoy rivalry games against Sam and SFA, but wants a shot against a bigger dog. This gives us more shots.

Does it really? FAU's still waiting for that OOC home game at home: they haven't had more than four home games since they've "moved up". MTSU has played exacly one OOC game in the past ten years of note: Virginia, and certainly not the Volunteers, Kentucky or others, and they have a lot of years where they have only four home games, too. Face it, the record is not great at scheduling OOC opponents.


Not only does this give Texas State the opportunity to compete at the highest level in college football

True

the additional student fees, we will be able to build a new Baseball and Softball Complex. This new complex will allow the Bobcats to bring in top competition for non-conference games, which give these respective teams the experience needed to excel in conference, as well as prepare themselves for the NCAA tournament.

True

It, however, doesn't mean you're going to make more money. I can vote on more student fees and build a palace to football - but that doesn't mean that I'm going to make an athletic department that can support itself for the most part.

And it's debatable if it's at the "highest level" - after all, isn't your chance of competing for a BC$ championship basically nil? How many Sun Belch teams have seriously been considered for a national championship?


Changing conferences would also place Texas State into a conference that often receives multiple NCAA tournament bids in volleyball, basketball, and baseball.

He's right. For all of the naysayers that say the Sunbelt's two bids is not good. The last time I checked 2 is still greater than 1. Time and again, our season leaders get bumped in a conference tourney, or our runner-ups have great records, but they don't get an invite because we are not respected in the eyes of the selection committees.

I think you're really trying to turn around and say moving to the Sun Belch is a baseball decision rather than a football one... and if that's true... how can Texas State's baseball program be also be used as an excuse to move to the Sun Belt, since it's so "great"? Either it's great and can qualify as an at-large from the SLC, or it stinks and needs the SBC baseball to get better - you can't have both...

Characterizing that the Sun Belch's two two-bid years in the men's basketball NCAA tournament in the past 14 years is somehow miles better than the SLC is just comical.

[Killtoppers90]

True...but don't misunderstand my point. I'm all for teams moving up if they want to....but I would prefer to see their administrations and their fans have realistic expectations.

Well there are many of us who do have those expectations. If you look at our schedule for 2008, I am not expecting an earth-shattering record. But I can hope for an Appy State like upset somewhere in the mix.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We are working on it. I hear the SBC is trying to make a deal with another bowl as we speak. I would love to be in one in the next few years. I'll keep you posted.

Subsidized by your own fees you pay the conference...

Carry on...

xpopcornx

[Killtoppers90]

Subsidized by your own fees you pay the conference...

Carry on...

xpopcornx
For now, but not in the future.

[nwFL Griz]

Well there are many of us who do have those expectations. If you look at our schedule for 2008, I am not expecting an earth-shattering record. But I can hope for an Appy State like upset somewhere in the mix.

Oh, I'm not referring to you guys, WKU has handled it all very well. I was referring to the delusions of grandeur happening in San Marcos.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm in total agreement with the sarcasm (meaning I don't think it is worth it)...but don't misunderstand my point. I'm all for teams doing what they want to, including moving up....but I would prefer to see their administrations and their fans have realistic expectations.


I agree 100%. I grow tired of the holier than thou attitude shown by some Sun-Belt folks, thats why I respon harshly. But yes move up if you desparetly want to, but dont come across like you be big shots all of a sudden.

[Killtoppers90]

Oh, I'm not referring to you guys, WKU has handled it all very well. I was referring to the delusions of grandeur happening in San Marcos.

I appreciate the clarification but that was more for Frank and the other haters with cognitive skills barely beyond a ham sandwich.

[nwFL Griz]

I agree 100%. I grow tired of the holier than thou attitude shown by some Sun-Belt folks, thats why I respon harshly. But yes move up if you desparetly want to, but dont come across like you be big shots all of a sudden.

Agree xthumbsupx

[Killtoppers90]

I agree 100%. I grow tired of the holier than thou attitude shown by some Sun-Belt folks, thats why I respon harshly. But yes move up if you desparetly want to, but dont come across like you be big shots all of a sudden.

And we are responding to yours as well. So sounds like we are arguing different sides of the same coin there Frank-o! But let me assure you BIG SHOTS is far from what we are - unless provoked.

[BearsCountry]

There are some good points about the BCS teams traveling to Sun Belt schools now. Troy has had Oklahoma State and Missouri in there place. Western Kentucky will have Indiana and Iowa State in the future. Middle Tennessee has had Maryland and Virginia. Florida Atlantic has had Minnesota and Oklahoma State.

[McNeese75]

We've gotten more press, more recognition this past year in the SBC than overall in the minor leagues!

WKU Basketball had something to do with that. Texas State does not have an athletic team that compares to WKU's BB program.

[McNeese72]

Could - or could not. Who has really, really heard of Louisiana-Lafayette and the fact that they beat a mediocre Alabama team? I'd bet more people know who Appalachian State is over Louisiana-Lafayette.





We, at McNeese, know who Louisiana-Lafayette is and had to put up with their holier than thou attitude for a whole year before we played them last season. And then this happened and they were quiet. The video playing on the scoreboard when I took this photo properly represented what their fans looked like when they left the stadium.

http://www.geauxcowboys-eastside.org/images/ull07gscore.jpg

Doc

[Killtoppers90]

WKU Basketball had something to do with that. Texas State does not have an athletic team that compares to WKU's BB program.

Probably not, but they could after a few years in the SBC.

[McNeese_beat]

Probably not, but they could after a few years in the SBC.

Actually, the evidence shows that, top to bottom, the Sun Belt was no better than the Southland in basketball last season.

It's interesting that Texas State had a better record against the SLC (6-10) than Sun Belt members had (4-7) last season.
Among the games:
Your Sun Belt West Co-Champs (ULL) lost at home to SLC also-ran McNeese
Your SBC West co-champs UALR lost at home to SLC seventh place Texas-Arlington. UTA also handled North Texas.
The second worst team in the SLC, Nicholls State, went 2-0 against the belt, beating UNO and Monroe

Look, I'm not implying the SLC is the better league and I will acknowledge the bad loss for the SLC with East division champion Lamar losing at UNO. I'll also acknowledge that the SLC did not see WKU or South Alabama this year, so they didn't see the two teams that stood out in the SBC. But the Belt only saw SFA once and did not play Sam Houston, so that's just about a wash. So take away SFA's win and the SLC is still 6-4 against the Belt with six of the 10 games coming on the Sun Belt team's home floor.

So to imply that the Sun Belt is "superior" doesn't fly with the facts. There is reason to believe that if Texas State went to the Sun Belt they would immediately be more competitive than they were in the SLC (starting with the fact that they fared better against the SLC the Sun Belt did).

Don't believe it? Ask Louisiana-Monroe. In 2006, they were 6-10 in the Southland Conference. In 2007, they joined the Sun Belt and went 11-7. Now, ULM had some players coming back and if they had stayed in the SLC, they would have likely improved. But I doubt if they would have improved any more than they did in the Sun Belt.

Here's another thing. You're implication that playing I-A football helps basketball does not jive with the results of this year's tournament. Sure WKU had the SBC's first win in the tournament in years (and added a second to boot) but what kind of football does Davidson play? Non-scholly FCS. What about Gonzaga? How about George Mason? And all those team in the Missouri Valley?

The bottom line is there is little to no evidence that playing FBS football helps a mid-major's basketball success. There is an advantage to playing in the BCS (TV money out the ass), but not to being a low-mid-major FBS member.

[McNeese_beat]

Sorry but I have never hear about any of yours school before SHSU went to the playoffs sorry I might be dumb but I'm the avg. person out there.

But i have heard of more the 1/2 the Sun Belt. teams and watched them on TV more then once a year, why you may ask; because they are seen as having a bigger football school, even if they do suck they still have more coverage. Maybe all of you are dreaming about how much press the FCS gets and how people see it.

Just Saying form the Average guy I'm not saying one is a better football then the other but one is. There is less FCS coverage well here in Texas then high school football. You will not hear any major media unless your on a FCS website or blog or something, or if your one of the great teams that knock off a BCS Team or one of the lucky 4 that make it to the playoff games that are on TV, that people really watch.

Sorry FCS is great football maybe better then BSC as a from of football is but 90% of people don't care.

This is just me speaking here as someone who actually does follow college football more than in a passive way.

I respect Mount Union and St. John's and Mary Hardin-Baylor in D-III. I watch, with interest, what programs like Valdosta and North Alabama do in D-II. For my money, those are better programs than, say, Louisiana-Lafayette or Temple or Duke because THEY KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING where the unsuccessful FBS programs don't. Mount Union is a well-run organization. Temple isn't. I'd rather be Mt. Union than Temple.

I think people who follow football, and aren't just passive fans, would generally agree with that.

However, I understand that passive fans who watch games simply as idle entertainment will never know about Mt. Union or North Alabama.

The question becomes, who would you rather impress given the choice, the person who keeps himself informed enough to know the difference or the person who doesn't know his elbow from his a-hole?

[chrisattsu]

Could - or could not. Who has really, really heard of Louisiana-Lafayette and the fact that they beat a mediocre Alabama team? I'd bet more people know who Appalachian State is over Louisiana-Lafayette.

I would say that they know about Appy because of the Michigan win, but even with back-to-back championships under their belt few people outside of the FCS circles knew who they were prior to that game.

I can't name everyone in the Big Sky, but I know who plays in the MWC and WAC. Nor can I name everyone in the SoCon, but I can name more teams from the Sunbelt. Hell, to be completely honest, I had to look up Lehigh's location. That being said, I know where Temple, Vanderbilt, and Tulane are located.




True - of course, this could all be accomplished without moving to FBS...


To some extent. Unless your alumni have promised large donations only AFTER you agree to move toward FBS.



Does it really? FAU's still waiting for that OOC home game at home: they haven't had more than four home games since they've "moved up". MTSU has played exacly one OOC game in the past ten years of note: Virginia, and certainly not the Volunteers, Kentucky or others, and they have a lot of years where they have only four home games, too. Face it, the record is not great at scheduling OOC opponents.

While it is not entirely favorable, North Texas, who is in a similar geographic region and a member of the Sunbelt has had 10 OOC home games vs. 43 road. Still 1 for every 4 is better than the none we get right now. UNT has managed to get SMU, TCU, Tulsa, Navy, Louisiana Tech, and Baylor to come to Fouts

It, however, doesn't mean you're going to make more money. I can vote on more student fees and build a palace to football - but that doesn't mean that I'm going to make an athletic department that can support itself for the most part.

Agreed.

And it's debatable if it's at the "highest level" - after all, isn't your chance of competing for a BC$ championship basically nil? How many Sun Belch teams have seriously been considered for a national championship?

True. You won't compete for the national championship. However, how important is a Grand Valley State or Mount Union national championship to someone in FCS. Like it or not, FCS has a glass ceiling. You can dominate at the level, but at the end you will still be relatively unknown outside of your specialized market. Sunbelt/WAC may not be the "big table", but it provides a path to keep moving forward (if you are able to find success-- which is the big if).

[FargoBison]

True. You won't compete for the national championship. However, how important is a Grand Valley State or Mount Union national championship to someone in FCS. Like it or not, FCS has a glass ceiling. You can dominate at the level, but at the end you will still be relatively unknown outside of your specialized market. Sunbelt/WAC may not be the "big table", but it provides a path to keep moving forward (if you are able to find success-- which is the big if).

The Sun Belt and WAC are not really comparable, the WAC has had some real success in football(Boise State, Hawaii, Fresno State) while the Sun Belt has beaten a few teams in regular season games. Maybe they will grow and do the same things but as of now I don't think SBC membership gives a school much of anything except a way up the ladder(CUSA, WAC, MWC).

[BearsCountry]

Sun Belt is also a young league. It started in 2001 and just recently have gotten up to 8 members with addition of WKU they will be at 9. I think its league that is improving by leaps and bounds.

[FormerPokeCenter]

You may have a point. Adding WKU was a definite step up in competitiveness when compared to their usual cast of suspects.....

[TexasTerror]

You guys catch this blog?

http://aarongadberry.com/bobcatfans/archives/category/blogs/eyre

This guy is also clueless. He does not realize his institution is a Division I school already, which seems to be consistent with the Bobcat 'Nation'...


From changes by the NCAA to failures on the part of TXST’s Administration, serious efforts to advance TXST’s football program to Division 1 sports have met with repeated failure.

These blogs are going to be fun to follow... ;)

[FormerPokeCenter]

The problem with the SWT delusional comments is that most of their posters are current SWT students. That unbridled naivete is to be expected when you realize it's source...

Aside from the K-sips at USL, the guys at SWT are, perhaps, the most tightly clustered group of delicate psyches begging to be textually abused in all of sports...

But, unlike the USL Fighting Catfish, the guys from SWT will eventually mature and grow out of it....;)

[JohnStOnge]

Whether you think it is or not, the Sun Belt is a step up from FCS. With the bowl system and BCS, there is a lot more money available to the member institutions than in FCS.

Competition-wise, the Sun Belt would probably be a top FCS conference, even though it is lower FBS.

I try to restrain myself on this issue more than I used to, but I think it's important to note that the last time I checked on it it looked like the average (also the median) financial bottom line for schools with non BCS I-A (that's what it was when I checked) football programs was "poorer" than that for I-AA schools. So was the average for schools that had moved from I-AA to I-A. That was also true of the averages for overall athletic programs. Yes, the revenues were greater. But so were the expenses. And the higher revenues were not sufficient, on average, to balance out the higher expenses.

There may be many reasons for a FCS to go FBS. But I think the chances are better than even that it's going to mean a negative financial impact on the university. Doesn't HAVE to turn out that way. I think Boise State, for instance, probably does better financially now than it did when it was in I-AA. At least it has during it's current glory run. But that's atypical.

As far as competetiveness goes: I think people who look at Troy need to look at their record against other I-As/FCS outside of the Sun Belt since it joined that league. It's 5-14; and one of the 5 wins was against transitional Western Kentucky in 2007 (so it was basically another Sun Belt game). So 4-14 is more indicative of how "competetive" Troy is when it steps outside of its league.

Let's not forget that, in the context of FCS in general and the BCS leagues in particular, Oklahoma State of 2007 was a mediocre team. Even the fact that Troy fans would think beating that Oklahoma State team was a big deal confirms that, in the context of the subdivision they're in, they are pretty close to the bottom of the barrell as programs go.

[bandit]

The Sun Belt's recognition nationally has been increasing yearly. They have several games throughout the year on ESPN's various channels. They are hosting big time opponents. South Florida went to FAU last year and goes to FIU this year. Teams from the Big East, Big 12, CUSA, MAC have all played at Sun Belt stadiums. The Sun Belt has played roughly even with CUSA head to head the last 2 seasons. There is no doubt they are improving from a competitive standpoint.

The question is: Would Texas State be the most attractive option for the Sun Belt? The TxSt fans seem to think it's obvious, but the Sun Belt isn't necessarily in position to take whatever 1-A team that crawls their way. They will likely have some decent options down the road, and it wouldn't surprise me if they stayed at 9 in football for a while to see what happens and who is ready for a move up after the moratorium ends.

[JohnStOnge]

Just Saying form the Average guy I'm not saying one is a better football then the other but one is. There is less FCS coverage well here in Texas then high school football. You will not hear any major media unless your on a FCS website or blog or something, or if your one of the great teams that knock off a BCS Team or one of the lucky 4 that make it to the playoff games that are on TV, that people really watch.

Sorry FCS is great football maybe better then BSC as a from of football is but 90% of people don't care.

That hits upon something I've often wondered about. Why do people care so much about whether or not a "small" football program gets publicity? To me, as a McNeese alum, whether or not people would hear more about the McNeese football team has little if any bearing upon the level at which I'd like to see the Cowboys compete.

Moving from FCS to FBS isn't likely to make a school better academically and, more likely than not, it's not going to put a school in a better position financially. What is the big deal about having more people "hear" about it?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Sun Belt's recognition nationally has been increasing yearly. They have several games throughout the year on ESPN's various channels. They are hosting big time opponents. South Florida went to FAU last year and goes to FIU this year. Teams from the Big East, Big 12, CUSA, MAC have all played at Sun Belt stadiums. The Sun Belt has played roughly even with CUSA head to head the last 2 seasons. There is no doubt they are improving from a competitive standpoint.

That says a lot more about the decline of CUSA in football than the rise of the Sun Belt...

[JohnStOnge]

The Sun Belt has played roughly even with CUSA head to head the last 2 seasons. .

And it has a 4-8 record against the FCS Southland Conference. I'd love to be able to say the Southland is at the pinacle of FCS right now; but it's not. Year in and year out during recent history, it's maybe 5th or 6th in that Subdivision.

The Sun Belt had three players drafted this past weekend. No other FCS conference had fewer than seven taken. Three FCS leagues had three taken each and another had four.

I've done articles before in which I showed that the Sun Belt has a record against BCS league opponents that's comparable to that of I-AA/FCS schools vs. BCS league opponents. In fact I think that going into this season I-AA/FCS teams had a slightly better winning percentage against BCS league schools than Sun Belt schools did.

Yes, the Sun Belt has an overall winning percentage against I-AA/FCS schools. But that's because it's played a lot of games against the weaker I-AA/FCS leagues. If Sun Belt teams had been playing most of their games against teams from conferences like the A-10/Colonial, I don't think it'd be a pretty picture for the Sun Belt.

I think you may be being overly optimistic.

[slycat]

this thread is a joke. so what if jodys thoughts for the school might be a little high. better to aim high and miss then am low and hit it.

dfw hoya said it best, people in texas care about football and playing in the slc doesnt help. i work with many shsu and sfa grads at my job and none of them know what FSC is. ive tried to have good conversations with them and all they want ot talk about is FBS schools. heck they would rather talk about UofH and Rice before their own schools. they say they are tired of playing schools that no one has heard of. and yes people have heard of the sunbelt teams here in texas more then they could name just a few FCS teams. im so tired of trying to explain how fcs isnt D2 i dont even try anymore.

will going to the sunbelt drastically change things at texas st? probably not. but it will keep more people interested and more people will attend sporting events when FBS schools are played.

bobcat baseball and softball will be our strongest sports. but i hope the others will improve as well.

for those of you saying that the sunbelt gets no respect, name one fcs conference that gets more respect or publicity year in year out.

[TXST_CAT]

Well since the topic was brought up. By a non TXST fan for that matter. Yes much of what Jody says is true. For our purposes our fans and Alum want to see TXST playing the likes of TCU, SMU, UTEP, RICE, UofH, and UNT. More so than the would ever care to see us play any FCS team. As for who would we rather cater too, those who "know" the game or those who "don't". We would prefer to cater to the fans who attend the University, the Alum who will help pay for the scholies/facilities and the fans who live in the area. So yes moving up will improve revenue, attendance, coverage(ESPN, FOX Sports SW), and it will improve our recruitment. I don't know how it may be in other states(don't care we don't recruit too much out of Texas except CA), the best players in TX feel DivI-A/FBS IS the highest level of play. It was said earlier, local HS coverage gets more air time than FCS football. So in our State to compete for talent we need to make the move. As far as being attractive to a FBS conference. I've said it before we are the third highest applied to university in the state with some of the toughest standards. Our location and media market is one of the fastest growing in the nation (just between San Antonio and Austn). Players want to come to TXST for the academics and location, but they want to play FCS football first. Although many don't believe the fact we are already competing for three star players we continue to gather recruits away from the same FCS teams mentioned earlier. I have no doubt going FCS wil only increase the number of players we will take. Continue to believe TXST is done competing for a Championship. Just don'te surprised IF we end up in the playoffs again ...SOON!

xpeacex xsmiley_wix xlolx

[TexasTerror]

Continue to believe TXST is done competing for a Championship. Just don'te surprised IF we end up in the playoffs again ...SOON!

That's incorrect...the Bobcats took how many years to get to the playoffs? They have just been passed up by Central Arkansas to add to McNeese State, just like every team in the SLC. I'd predict the Bobcats to be picked fourth at best in the SLC pre-season polls.

It'll be sometime before they get back in the playoffs outside of taking advantage of a weak OOC schedule (similar to this year's slate) and actually doing damage in the SLC...

[JohnStOnge]

Well since the topic was brought up. By a non TXST fan for that matter. Yes much of what Jody says is true. For our purposes our fans and Alum want to see TXST playing the likes of TCU, SMU, UTEP, RICE, UofH, and UNT. More so than the would ever care to see us play any FCS team. As for who would we rather cater too, those who "know" the game or those who "don't". We would prefer to cater to the fans who attend the University, the Alum who will help pay for the scholies/facilities and the fans who live in the area. So yes moving up will improve revenue, attendance, coverage(ESPN, FOX Sports SW), and it will improve our recruitment. I don't know how it may be in other states(don't care we don't recruit too much out of Texas except CA), the best players in TX feel DivI-A/FBS IS the highest level of play. It was said earlier, local HS coverage gets more air time than FCS football. So in our State to compete for talent we need to make the move. As far as being attractive to a FBS conference. I've said it before we are the third highest applied to university in the state with some of the toughest standards. Our location and media market is one of the fastest growing in the nation (just between San Antonio and Austn). Players want to come to TXST for the academics and location, but they want to play FCS football first. Although many don't believe the fact we are already competing for three star players we continue to gather recruits away from the same FCS teams mentioned earlier. I have no doubt going FCS wil only increase the number of players we will take. Continue to believe TXST is done competing for a Championship. Just don'te surprised IF we end up in the playoffs again ...SOON!

xpeacex xsmiley_wix xlolx

If it's what the alumni and supporters of the school want, fine. I just think that if they think it's likely to improve the finances and/or academics of the institution they're in error. The talent level probably will improve to some extent in absolute terms. But their talent level relative to the level at which they're competing will go down. Way down.

Most programs that have moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS field what are essentially FCS caliber teams trying to compete in FBS. They are certainly much closer to FCS in caliber than they are to the mainstream of FBS. Troy, for instance, is able to craft a responsible record only because it plays a lot of other teams in its conference that are also I-AA-->I-A migrants. Boise State has been in that situation for most of its history as a I-A and my bet would be that's where it'll be for most of its future in the long term (i.e., it's having a glory run now but will eventually recede as Marshall has after having its own glory run).

Now, I can understand wanting what Boise State had with the Bowl win over Oklahoma. I can see people saying that one high profile moment like that makes it all worth it no matter what else happens from here on out. But that's not likely to happen for any given program, including Texas State, that opts to migrate.

Yes, more people will hear "Texas State." But moving to FBS is not going to make most people think of Texas State as "big time" any more than they think of Troy as "big time." Best you can reasonably hope for is being a potentially dangerous "small time" team during some seasons.

[813Jag]

Could - or could not. Who has really, really heard of Louisiana-Lafayette and the fact that they beat a mediocre Alabama team? I'd bet more people know who Appalachian State is over Louisiana-Lafayette.



True - of course, this could all be accomplished without moving to FBS...



Does it really? FAU's still waiting for that OOC home game at home: they haven't had more than four home games since they've "moved up". MTSU has played exacly one OOC game in the past ten years of note: Virginia, and certainly not the Volunteers, Kentucky or others, and they have a lot of years where they have only four home games, too. Face it, the record is not great at scheduling OOC opponents.



It, however, doesn't mean you're going to make more money. I can vote on more student fees and build a palace to football - but that doesn't mean that I'm going to make an athletic department that can support itself for the most part.

And it's debatable if it's at the "highest level" - after all, isn't your chance of competing for a BC$ championship basically nil? How many Sun Belch teams have seriously been considered for a national championship?



I think you're really trying to turn around and say moving to the Sun Belch is a baseball decision rather than a football one... and if that's true... how can Texas State's baseball program be also be used as an excuse to move to the Sun Belt, since it's so "great"? Either it's great and can qualify as an at-large from the SLC, or it stinks and needs the SBC baseball to get better - you can't have both...

Characterizing that the Sun Belch's two two-bid years in the men's basketball NCAA tournament in the past 14 years is somehow miles better than the SLC is just comical.
I agree with a lot of comments about the status of the Sun Belt in FBS, but a point that must be made is that FAU is a 7 year old program with only 3 of those in FBS. I don't think many people would travel to Lockhart Stadium to play the Owls. They do have a home/home with Michigan St n '10-'11. USF didn't get their first OOC BCS home opponent until this past season when North Carolina came to Tampa.

I see a focus to improve the FAU football program. They are also planning a new 30K seat stadium (http://fausports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091807aac.html).

[TXST_CAT]

That's incorrect...the Bobcats took how many years to get to the playoffs? They have just been passed up by Central Arkansas to add to McNeese State, just like every team in the SLC. I'd predict the Bobcats to be picked fourth at best in the SLC pre-season polls.

It'll be sometime before they get back in the playoffs outside of taking advantage of a weak OOC schedule (similar to this year's slate) and actually doing damage in the SLC...

Last year everyone knows our defense was weak, coach Wright made changes on our defensive staff to make sure we are not in that possition again.

[TexasTerror]

Last year everyone knows our defense was weak, coach Wright made changes on our defensive staff to make sure we are not in that possition again.

And we all know how many years of the previous 20+ that the Bobcat fans thought they had a great shot at an SLC title...and we know how many of those years the Bobcats actually somehow put together a winning season...

A weak OOC will be beneficial to the record, but it will take SLC wins to push the Bobcats into the playoffs. Fourth in the SLC at best, mark it down.

[McNeese72]

Last year everyone knows our defense was weak, coach Wright made changes on our defensive staff to make sure we are not in that possition again.

So did we!!

Doc

[Franks Tanks]

I agree with a lot of comments about the status of the Sun Belt in FBS, but a point that must be made is that FAU is a 7 year old program with only 3 of those in FBS. I don't think many people would travel to Lockhart Stadium to play the Owls. They do have a home/home with Michigan St n '10-'11. USF didn't get their first OOC BCS home opponent until this past season when North Carolina came to Tampa.

I see a focus to improve the FAU football program. They are also planning a new 30K seat stadium (http://fausports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091807aac.html).

That looks just like UCF's new place. These new Florida school are amazing, they dont even look like college campus's, more like corporate office parks or shopping centers. I guess that is what happens when they go from 0 to 50k in a few decades.

[FormerPokeCenter]

That hits upon something I've often wondered about. Why do people care so much about whether or not a "small" football program gets publicity? To me, as a McNeese alum, whether or not people would hear more about the McNeese football team has little if any bearing upon the level at which I'd like to see the Cowboys compete.

Moving from FCS to FBS isn't likely to make a school better academically and, more likely than not, it's not going to put a school in a better position financially. What is the big deal about having more people "hear" about it?

It's a self-esteem thing, John. Like USL, the student body at SWT is comprised of kids who either flunked out of the state's flagship and came home, or - alternatively - weren't possessed of the means academically or financially to get into the flagship school of their choice.

If they can somehow change the perception of their school into something that exceeds it's inrinsic merit, then they can achieve some sort of validation and overcome the inner feeling of failure that comes from being perceived as not being good enough for their prospective flagship school of choice...

It's simple overreaching vainglorious social climbing, nothign more, nothing less....

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

This guy sounds like a lot of posters at GSUfans.com ... full of ignorance and ultra-idealism. At least GSU fans have more to brag about than one semifinal appearance, I guess.

[813Jag]

That looks just like UCF's new place. These new Florida school are amazing, they dont even look like college campus's, more like corporate office parks or shopping centers. I guess that is what happens when they go from 0 to 50k in a few decades.
That is true UCF (1963), USF (1956), FAU (1964), and FIU (1965) are pretty young schools.

[chrisattsu]

It's a self-esteem thing, John. Like USL, the student body at SWT is comprised of kids who either flunked out of the state's flagship and came home, or - alternatively - weren't possessed of the means academically or financially to get into the flagship school of their choice.

If they can somehow change the perception of their school into something that exceeds it's inrinsic merit, then they can achieve some sort of validation and overcome the inner feeling of failure that comes from being perceived as not being good enough for their prospective flagship school of choice...

It's simple overreaching vainglorious social climbing, nothign more, nothing less....

I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. I did not choose Texas State for my graduate work because I flunked out / couldn't get into / came home / couldn't afford it. I chose Texas State because it has one of the top-3 Public History programs in Texas with an excellent job placement record. In addition to this, my program is a nationally-ranked Top-10 PhD feeder program, and the faculty members are approachable (something that really turned me off about the "flagship" professors).

[Killtoppers90]

That says a lot more about the decline of CUSA in football than the rise of the Sun Belt...

I think there is truth on both sides of that statement. The MAC might be down a bit but the SBC is better than it has been as well.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. I did not choose Texas State for my graduate work because I flunked out / couldn't get into / came home / couldn't afford it. I chose Texas State because it has one of the top-3 Public History programs in Texas with an excellent job placement record. In addition to this, my program is a nationally-ranked Top-10 PhD feeder program, and the faculty members are approachable (something that really turned me off about the "flagship" professors).


Interesting spin. Perhaps you're where you belong, amongst like-minded over-reaching social climbers....

Out of 97 total Public History degree programs in the US, there are only seven (7) schools offering post graduate Public History Degrees in Texas. Bayor and Houston would obviously have to top the list, followed by the rest of the smaller state schools like Tarleton, SFA, SWT, UTA and UTEP. When you say "Top Three" it sounds, on its face, to be really impressive. When you put in the context of there being 7 schools in Texas that offer the degree, it works out that you're really saying is that you're in a middle of the pack school.

Moreover, and - perhaps more imporantly - the flagship schools in Texas, like UT or A&M don't offer your field of study at their main campuses, so mewling about the unapproachability of their professors is a complete non-sequiter....

You'll undoubtedly do just fine as a Public Historian, since packaging of information for public consumption is just as important, if not more so, than the actual research involved in compiling the information.

In less PC times, that degree field would be called "Propagandist", ya know? ;)

[Killtoppers90]

It's a self-esteem thing, John. Like USL, the student body at SWT is comprised of kids who either flunked out of the state's flagship and came home, or - alternatively - weren't possessed of the means academically or financially to get into the flagship school of their choice.

If they can somehow change the perception of their school into something that exceeds it's inrinsic merit, then they can achieve some sort of validation and overcome the inner feeling of failure that comes from being perceived as not being good enough for their prospective flagship school of choice...

It's simple overreaching vainglorious social climbing, nothign more, nothing less....

I am going to disagree with this point, Center. I choose WKU for multiple reasons, none of them had to do with not being able to get into UK or UL, even though I could. Seeing my school move the FB program to the next level has little to do with self-esteem for me. It has to do with my love of my school, my program and wanting to see them succeed. Not so I can beat my chest when they win or anguish when they lose, but I want to see good things happen for WKU. If moving up to I-A/FBS is a good move for us, then I am for it.

I do enjoy seeing us play against the best competition, whether we win or lose. Which we will do more than our fair share of in the next several years, yet my resolve for WKU is not tied to that. So vanity/glory is not at issue here. Will I enjoy the wins (eventual) against bigger schools, of course I will. Just as I enjoyed the wins in the FCS, every single one was a thrill and each loss was tragic.

Yes, there is a stigma that WKU has lived with as being seen as a "lesser" school for decades, one I would love to see change. The underdog role, if you will, is one we have had in our specific state as McNeese, Ga. Southern or Appy State has in their states. It is just the way it is. I do believe that "On Any Given Saturday"
a bigger team can lose to one of lesser size, stature, enrollment or what have you. But wanting that to happen is not "vainglorious social climbing, nothign more, nothing less....". Disagree?

[McNeese_beat]

I am going to disagree with this point, Center. I choose WKU for multiple reasons, none of them had to do with not being able to get into UK or UL, even though I could. Seeing my school move the FB program to the next level has little to do with self-esteem for me. It has to do with my love of my school, my program and wanting to see them succeed. Not so I can beat my chest when they win or anguish when they lose, but I want to see good things happen for WKU. If moving up to I-A/FBS is a good move for us, then I am for it.

I do enjoy seeing us play against the best competition, whether we win or lose. Which we will do more than our fair share of in the next several years, yet my resolve for WKU is not tied to that. So vanity/glory is not at issue here. Will I enjoy the wins (eventual) against bigger schools, of course I will. Just as I enjoyed the wins in the FCS, every single one was a thrill and each loss was tragic.

Yes, there is a stigma that WKU has lived with as being seen as a "lesser" school for decades, one I would love to see change. The underdog role, if you will, is one we have had in our specific state as McNeese, Ga. Southern or Appy State has in their states. It is just the way it is. I do believe that "On Any Given Saturday"
a bigger team can lose to one of lesser size, stature, enrollment or what have you. But wanting that to happen is not "vainglorious social climbing, nothign more, nothing less....". Disagree?

<<Yes, there is a stigma that WKU has lived with as being seen as a "lesser" school for decades>>
But is that by design? Most of the FCS, and most schools in the "lesser" Division I conferences are not the large landgrant universities. The schools in the BCS leagues are. In states that have BCS programs, that is *almost* the rule (states like Massachusetts, where a private school is the one BCS program, are exceptions).

The thing is, the size of the athletic departments tend to be proportionate to the intended mission of the universities. The size of the athletic departments do not dictate the size, or prestige, of universities.

In your case, WKU started as a business college/teacher's school. Kentucky is the land-grant university. Having Division I athletics is not going to change that.

In most cases where the non-major university rose to "higher" levels athletically, the growth was connected to the growth of the market they were in. Louisville is a good example. Central Florida, South Florida and Miami are examples. Southern Miss took advantage of being in the growing side of the state of Mississippi (i.e., near the I-10 stretch from Bay St. Louis to Mobile) while Oxford and Starkville were in the more stagnant part of northern Mississippi.

Of course, market growth isn't the only issue. UCF and USF are in areas that are a safe enough distance from Gainesville and Tallahasse to grow their programs. UTSA will have a hard time because it's so close to Austin and College Station. UL-Lafayette is one of the only cities in Louisiana to experience independent growth (growth that's more than just hurricane re-locaters from New Orleans and Lake Charles), but it's only 50 miles from BR.

[TheBisonator]

I see a focus to improve the FAU football program. They are also planning a new 30K seat stadium (http://fausports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091807aac.html).

It looks like a giant set of high school bleachers.

[slycat]

It's a self-esteem thing, John. Like USL, the student body at SWT is comprised of kids who either flunked out of the state's flagship and came home, or - alternatively - weren't possessed of the means academically or financially to get into the flagship school of their choice.

If they can somehow change the perception of their school into something that exceeds it's inrinsic merit, then they can achieve some sort of validation and overcome the inner feeling of failure that comes from being perceived as not being good enough for their prospective flagship school of choice...

It's simple overreaching vainglorious social climbing, nothign more, nothing less....

and mcneese is full of lsu rejects. give it a break. i got into texas a&m but wanted to go to texas st. my roommate graduated in the top 5 of his high school class (out of over 500) and picked texas st when he could have gone anywhere. money wasnt an issue. fact is many of us at texas st go there because we want to and because it has good programs. heck we were voted a best value college in the country and the only others in texas to get that were UT and A&M.

[Sir William]

I've read through most of this thread, and it seems to me that Texas State moving to the Sun Belt makes sense for them.

Now here are the facts. First, the Sun Belt is the minor leagues, period. At least right now. Yeah, they may pull a little upset now and then, but I think most folks would rank them below the MAC, and even below the Southern and CAA at times. Yes, they have some great former FCS teams, but none which were ever perrenial FCS powers. (And that includes you Hilltoppers, too.)

Second, with the exception of one year (that one being the year they choked away the semi-final game to UNI), Texas State has for the most part been a mediocre FCS program. Not a reflection on the school, just the program.

Moving to FBS and the Sun Belt would potentially make sense for many reasons given on this thread...but only for a school like Texas State. Not the Apps or the Ga Southerns or the Montanas, etc. These programs and others with rich winning traditions in FCS have too much going for them than to move into FBS mediocrity.

Now, here is the real question that deserves an answer: What the heck is Louisiana Tech doing in the WAC?

[MaximumBobcat]

It's a self-esteem thing, John. Like USL, the student body at SWT is comprised of kids who either flunked out of the state's flagship and came home, or - alternatively - weren't possessed of the means academically or financially to get into the flagship school of their choice.


Just because that's the way things might be at McNeese/LSU doesn't mean that's the way things are at Texas State. Sorry, try again. xwhistlex

Oh, and it cracks me up the things some people are saying in this thread. Bunch of haters...but it's fine...keep it up, at the very least it's entertaining. xlolx xlolx xlolx


I've read through most of this thread, and it seems to me that Texas State moving to the Sun Belt makes sense for them.

Now here are the facts. First, the Sun Belt is the minor leagues, period. At least right now. Yeah, they may pull a little upset now and then, but I think most folks would rank them below the MAC, and even below the Southern and CAA at times. Yes, they have some great former FCS teams, but none which were ever perrenial FCS powers. (And that includes you Hilltoppers, too.)

Second, with the exception of one year (that one being the year they choked away the semi-final game to UNI), Texas State has for the most part been a mediocre FCS program. Not a reflection on the school, just the program.

Moving to FBS and the Sun Belt would potentially make sense for many reasons given on this thread...but only for a school like Texas State. Not the Apps or the Ga Southerns or the Montanas, etc. These programs and others with rich winning traditions in FCS have too much going for them than to move into FBS mediocrity.

Now, here is the real question that deserves an answer: What the heck is Louisiana Tech doing in the WAC?

Good post. Except for 05, FCS has just been a black hole for TxSt. We won back to back National Championships in rock star fashion in DII and now we're just seemingly stuck in FCS/I-AA. I've always felt that the FCS was the worst division to be in in football in Texas. I'd rather be D2 or FBS.

[MaximumBobcat]

I've read through most of this thread, and it seems to me that Texas State moving to the Sun Belt makes sense for them.

Now here are the facts. First, the Sun Belt is the minor leagues, period. At least right now. Yeah, they may pull a little upset now and then, but I think most folks would rank them below the MAC, and even below the Southern and CAA at times. Yes, they have some great former FCS teams, but none which were ever perrenial FCS powers. (And that includes you Hilltoppers, too.)

Second, with the exception of one year (that one being the year they choked away the semi-final game to UNI), Texas State has for the most part been a mediocre FCS program. Not a reflection on the school, just the program.

Moving to FBS and the Sun Belt would potentially make sense for many reasons given on this thread...but only for a school like Texas State. Not the Apps or the Ga Southerns or the Montanas, etc. These programs and others with rich winning traditions in FCS have too much going for them than to move into FBS mediocrity.

Now, here is the real question that deserves an answer: What the heck is Louisiana Tech doing in the WAC?

Good post. Except for 05, FCS has just been a black hole for TxSt. We won back to back National Championships in rock star fashion in DII and now we're just seemingly stuck in FCS/I-AA. I've always felt that the FCS was the worst division to be in in football in Texas. I'd rather be D2 or FBS.

[BEAR]

Now, here is the real question that deserves an answer: What the heck is Louisiana Tech doing in the WAC?

They're too smart to be in the SBC.xrulesx xreadx xeyebrowx xlolx

[FormerPokeCenter]

and mcneese is full of lsu rejects. give it a break. i got into texas a&m but wanted to go to texas st. my roommate graduated in the top 5 of his high school class (out of over 500) and picked texas st when he could have gone anywhere. money wasnt an issue. fact is many of us at texas st go there because we want to and because it has good programs. heck we were voted a best value college in the country and the only others in texas to get that were UT and A&M.

Well, you can try to sell that bill of goods all you want. I'm from South Texas and know far too may SWT grads to buy the notion that it's a school chock full of students who never wanted to go anywhere else. And, for too long, all that's been heard from the Boobcats is how the SLC is holding them back and how their rightful place is alongside Texas and A&M. No offense, but you guys have one helluva case of collective delusions of grandeur.

On a related note, what do you call a SWT Honors graduate? ANS: A guy who first flunked out of A&M....:)

[MaximumBobcat]

Well, you can try to sell that bill of goods all you want. I'm from South Texas and know far too may SWT grads to buy the notion that it's a school chock full of students who never wanted to go anywhere else. And, for too long, all that's been heard from the Boobcats is how the SLC is holding them back and how their rightful place is alongside Texas and A&M. No offense, but you guys have one helluva case of collective delusions of grandeur.

You might be right about a few of the SWT people.

Things on the TxSt campus are a little different though.


On a related note, what do you call a SWT Honors graduate? ANS: A guy who first flunked out of A&M....:)

LOL. Not at your joke, but at your stellar wit. I think you already used that one, try again.

[FormerPokeCenter]

You might be right about the SWT people.

Things on the TxSt campus are a little different though.



LOL. Not at your joke, but at your stellar wit. I think you already used that one, try again.

Different thread, different message board. Besides, haven't you heard? Recycling is in these days....;)

[TXST_CAT]

little food for thought

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/compare_schools.jsp?

xreadx

[813Jag]

I've read through most of this thread, and it seems to me that Texas State moving to the Sun Belt makes sense for them.

Now here are the facts. First, the Sun Belt is the minor leagues, period. At least right now. Yeah, they may pull a little upset now and then, but I think most folks would rank them below the MAC, and even below the Southern and CAA at times. Yes, they have some great former FCS teams, but none which were ever perrenial FCS powers. (And that includes you Hilltoppers, too.)

Second, with the exception of one year (that one being the year they choked away the semi-final game to UNI), Texas State has for the most part been a mediocre FCS program. Not a reflection on the school, just the program.

Moving to FBS and the Sun Belt would potentially make sense for many reasons given on this thread...but only for a school like Texas State. Not the Apps or the Ga Southerns or the Montanas, etc. These programs and others with rich winning traditions in FCS have too much going for them than to move into FBS mediocrity.

Now, here is the real question that deserves an answer: What the heck is Louisiana Tech doing in the WAC?
I guess they didn't fit with CUSA, LaTech was independent after leaving the Big West in 1996.

[TexasTerror]

I guess they didn't fit with CUSA, LaTech was independent after leaving the Big West in 1996.

La Tech was with the Sun Belt for all sports until 2001 if I am not mistaken. They did win an SBC WBB title in 2001 (which was their glamour sport at the time) before joining the WAC in 2001 at the same time Boise State did. La Tech was a football independent at the time as the SBC did not have football until fall 2001.

[813Jag]

La Tech was with the Sun Belt for all sports until 2001 if I am not mistaken. They did win an SBC WBB title in 2001 (which was their glamour sport at the time) before joining the WAC in 2001 at the same time Boise State did. La Tech was a football independent at the time as the SBC did not have football until fall 2001.
I was speaking football-wise (they were football only in the Big West ULL, at the time USL, and ULM, at the time NLU, were also members.)

[TexasTerror]

I was speaking football-wise (they were football only in the Big West ULL, at the time USL, and ULM, at the time NLU, were also members.)

NE Louisiana was never in the Big West. They were Independent from 1996-2001 before joining the SBC after being in the SLC the same stretch in which UL-Lafayette was Independent.

[813Jag]

NE Louisiana was never in the Big West. They were Independent from 1996-2001 before joining the SBC after being in the SLC the same stretch in which UL-Lafayette was Independent.
That's right, I don't know why I thought they were.

[Killtoppers90]

Now here are the facts. First, the Sun Belt is the minor leagues, period. At least right now. Yeah, they may pull a little upset now and then, but I think most folks would rank them below the MAC, and even below the Southern and CAA at times. Yes, they have some great former FCS teams, but none which were ever perrenial FCS powers. (And that includes you Hilltoppers, too.)

And the FCS is the BIG TIME? Really? My what an inflated self-image you have too! If the SBC is minor leagues, you are too! Rarely will a FCS team beat a Florida, Michigan or USC anymore than a majority of the SBC will. So the conferences MIGHT be more on the same level right now but the SBC is at least on the move up. You guys will still be here if that is what you want to do. And I will not begrudge you of that.


Moving to FBS and the Sun Belt would potentially make sense for many reasons given on this thread...but only for a school like Texas State. Not the Apps or the Ga Southerns or the Montanas, etc. These programs and others with rich winning traditions in FCS have too much going for them than to move into FBS mediocrity.

They would much rather be the BIG FISH in the SMALL POND I take it? That is fine, but don't tarnish what we are trying to do by making yourselves feel superior or better that we are 1-A.

[FormerPokeCenter]

And the FCS is the BIG TIME? Really? My what an inflated self-image you have too! If the SBC is minor leagues, you are too! Rarely will a FCS team beat a Florida, Michigan or USC anymore than a majority of the SBC will. So the conferences MIGHT be more on the same level right now but the SBC is at least on the move up. You guys will still be here if that is what you want to do. And I will not begrudge you of that.



They would much rather be the BIG FISH in the SMALL POND I take it? That is fine, but don't tarnish what we are trying to do by making yourselves feel superior or better that we are 1-A.


Nobody's trying to tarnish what you're trying to do. The fact of the matter is that you'll either succeed, or you won't.

It's perfectly legitimate to intelligently and knowledgeably opine that the move is a mistake....

[Killtoppers90]

Nobody's trying to tarnish what you're trying to do. The fact of the matter is that you'll either succeed, or you won't.

It's perfectly legitimate to intelligently and knowledgeably opine that the move is a mistake....

Well only time will tell there. And we will agree to rationally disagree. Thanks for the discussion.

[catdaddy2402]

La Tech joined the WAC when SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP were in the WAC and gave them some regional opponents. They got left behind when those four jumped to CUSA, and are too proud to go back to the Sun Belt.

[TexasTerror]

La Tech joined the WAC when SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP were in the WAC and gave them some regional opponents. They got left behind when those four jumped to CUSA, and are too proud to go back to the Sun Belt.

Sun Belt does want them back. They slapped them in the face. Would not expect a red carpet...

[catdaddy2402]

Yeah, La Tech has crapped on the Sun Belt every chance it gets.....but at this point I think they would take the Bulldogs back if they came calling. However, as the Sun Belt builds itself as a conference and La Tech's athletic programs continue to decline the chances of them accepting La Tech back diminishes.

[TexasTerror]

Yeah, La Tech has crapped on the Sun Belt every chance it gets.....but at this point I think they would take the Bulldogs back if they came calling. However, as the Sun Belt builds itself as a conference and La Tech's athletic programs continue to decline the chances of them accepting La Tech back diminishes.

Without question, the Sun Belt would not take La Tech back. I think they ruined a few too many relationships. May as well call La Tech the 'Art Modell'...