former Elon qb shows out in d2 spring game

[catamount man]

http://www.brevard.edu/Athletics/MensTeams/MensFootball/News/BlueTeamDefeatsWhiteinInauguralSpringGame/tabid/1211/Default.aspx

Kye Hamilton shows out tonight during Brevard College's spring football game. Nepotism has followed Paul Hamilton across the state of North Carolina yet again.

Another former Elon player, RB John Taylor had some nice stats as well. Elon in the mountains. HA!!!
Good luck BC!

GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[Eyes of Old Main]

The mere thought of Brevard football almost made me spray my drink onto my keyboard, much less the thought of the Hamiltons.

[catamount man]

The mere thought of Brevard football almost made me spray my drink onto my keyboard, much less the thought of the Hamiltons.

Maybe Kye won't get his dad fired this time around. xthumbsupx

[downbythebeach]

someone should explain

[gophoenix]

someone should explain

Paul Hamtilton coached at Elon and took us to two of the worst seasons offensively that we've ever had in 99 years of football.

As soon as Paul Hamilton was hired, his son was brought in and the previous starter was sidelined so that his son could start. The previous QB was made anything from a TE to WR to FB/HB. Needless to say, the offense stunk. Lacked creativity. And was designed around making his kid not look as good as he was.

At the same time, Paul Hamilton brought in a running back named John Taylor from Ohio (transfer) who pretty much the best RB in the conference in the one season he played for us. John Taylor proceeded to fail every class that he took and was suspended. A season later, we fire Paul Hamtilon and his son proceeds to quit school too.

The next year, Kye Hamtilon was reportedly cut at Newberry.

2 years later, Paul Hamilton is coaching at D-II startup Brevard. Withing months, he has John Taylor enrolled there, and another season later, his son Kye Hamilton is playing there.

It all just makes me laugh. PHam was the absolute WORST thing to happen to Elon football in my lifetime. And now he's dragging Brevard through it now.

[SideLine Shooter]

Paul Hamtilton coached at Elon and took us to two of the worst seasons offensively that we've ever had in 99 years of football.

As soon as Paul Hamilton was hired, his son was brought in and the previous starter was sidelined so that his son could start. The previous QB was made anything from a TE to WR to FB/HB. Needless to say, the offense stunk. Lacked creativity. And was designed around making his kid not look as good as he was.

At the same time, Paul Hamilton brought in a running back named John Taylor from Ohio (transfer) who pretty much the best RB in the conference in the one season he played for us. John Taylor proceeded to fail every class that he took and was suspended. A season later, we fire Paul Hamtilon and his son proceeds to quit school too.

The next year, Kye Hamtilon was reportedly cut at Newberry.

2 years later, Paul Hamilton is coaching at D-II startup Brevard. Withing months, he has John Taylor enrolled there, and another season later, his son Kye Hamilton is playing there.

It all just makes me laugh. PHam was the absolute WORST thing to happen to Elon football in my lifetime. And now he's dragging Brevard through it now.

You know what they say; "DOO DOO HAPPENS".xeekx xeekx xeekx xprost2x xdizzyx

[SoCon48]

You know what they say; "DOO DOO HAPPENS".xeekx xeekx xeekx xprost2x xdizzyx

And the dumb azz HC before Hamilton sukked, too.xeyebrowx

[gophoenix]

And the dumb azz HC before Hamilton sukked, too.xeyebrowx

Yes he did after 2000, real bad. But he put up better numbers against better competition than Hamilton's teams. Just because Seagraves sucked doesn't excuse any of the crap Hamilton did. And I am surprised the Brevard allows it after how it all went down at Elon.

[WCU LawCat]

I think brevard could have a nic elittle program but it really seems like they have a ton of politics in the athletic department. They just hired a new AD

[SoCon48]

And from talking to a player's mom, they're trying to do every thing on a shoe string at Brevard. Not sure they'll be patient enough to keep Ham or anybody for that matter in the beginning.
Hamilton was a good and valued assistant coach at a very successful Air Force Academy program. Good assistant coaches don't always make HC material.

[SoCon48]

Yes he did after 2000, real bad. But he put up better numbers against better competition than Hamilton's teams. Just because Seagraves sucked doesn't excuse any of the crap Hamilton did. And I am surprised the Brevard allows it after how it all went down at Elon.

Yep. Hamilton wasn't there long enough to lose 49 games. Six of one a half dozen of the other. Once Elon got into the SoCon full time, Seagraves showed his lack of coaching talent, too, 2-9, 4-7. 2-10.
Before that they played the sisters of the poor week in week out with only 1, 2, 3 good opponents to prepare for at most.

Neither of them were SoCon HC material. But when you talk about sukky coaching, Seagraves should be in the same sentence with Ham.

Seagraves will go down in history as the first to post a 10 loss Elon football season in 75 years. Ham went back to Air Force and then to a start up program (usually suicide for a coach). Did Seagravers ever find another college job or did the school just keep in on in a token position?

[gophoenix]

Yep. Hamilton wasn't there long enough to lose 49 games. Six of one a half dozen of the other. Once Elon got into the SoCon full time, Seagraves showed his lack of coaching talent, too, 2-9, 4-7. 2-10.
Before that they played the sisters of the poor week in week out with only 1, 2, 3 good opponents to prepare for at most.

Neither of them were SoCon HC material. But when you talk about sukky coaching, Seagraves should be in the same sentence with Ham.

Seagraves will go down in history as the first to post a 10 loss Elon football season in 75 years. Ham went back to Air Force and then to a start up program (usually suicide for a coach). Did Seagravers ever find another college job or did the school just keep in on in a token position?

I don't want to get in a knock down drag out argument about this. But I'm not sure why Seagraves sucking has anything to do with Brevard or the fact that Hamilton was a terrible head coach and is pulling his same stunts at his current job.

And I hadn't realized that about the 10 loss season. But you're right, it had been that long. Another milestone, there were only 113 points scored in 12 games. And the fact that we shut out Paul Hamilton's ETSU team with that horrible team and lost to a bad D-II team.

I will buy your point that they were both descent assistants and not all assistants make good head coaches. They were both riddled with problems and both were too stubborn to take any criticism or modify they game plan or personnel. And both were terrible recruiters.

But Seagraves only coached in the SoCon 1 year, 2004. Seagraves won 1 SoCon game in 1 year. Hamilton won 2 in 2 years.


Before that they played the sisters of the poor week in week out with only 1, 2, 3 good opponents to prepare for at most.

That's not exactly true and you know it. You always try to pull that.....

1999: games with ranked teams A&T, Samford, Western Illinois, Hofstra, Furman (3-2 against those teams)
2000: games with ranked Furman, Western kentucky, Georgia Southern and A&T (1-4 with those teams)
2001: James Madison, Furman, A&T, Western Kentucky Northwestern State, Hofstra, Georgia Southern, Youngstown State all were ranked
2002: Furman, Northwestern State, Wofford all were ranked

Ok, so you're right 2002 saw us play 3 good opponents. But the other years were packed with good opponents for that year.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

someone should explain - Two NC All-state QBs were recruited into the Elon program - One Anthony Crews started as a true freshmen - he had led Reidsville to the state championship and he reminded me of App's Richie Williams as a freshman - The other Wes Pope led Ragsdale to the state championship and he was a big kid with a strong arm - Pope got hurt early in the season and missed the rest of the season - The next year Hamilton comes in and moves Crews to WR and Pope to LB, TE, FB, anything to keep him from competing for the QB position which was handed over to Hamilton's son Kye. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but Kye Hamilton couldn't have started at QB for several high school teams in the area and that is not an exaggeration - the year after Hamilton is fired, Lembo moves Pope back to QB where he had an outstanding year. Unfortunately for Crews he left the program prior to Lembo's hiring --- It was truly as severe a case of nepotism as I have ever seen ---

[ElonPride]

- Two NC All-state QBs were recruited into the Elon program - One Anthony Crews started as a true freshmen - he had led Reidsville to the state championship and he reminded me of App's Richie Williams as a freshman - The other Wes Pope led Ragsdale to the state championship and he was a big kid with a strong arm - Pope got hurt early in the season and missed the rest of the season - The next year Hamilton comes in and moves Crews to WR and Pope to LB, TE, FB, anything to keep him from competing for the QB position which was handed over to Hamilton's son Kye. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but Kye Hamilton couldn't have started at QB for several high school teams in the area and that is not an exaggeration - the year after Hamilton is fired, Lembo moves Pope back to QB where he had an outstanding year. Unfortunately for Crews he left the program prior to Lembo's hiring --- It was truly as severe a case of nepotism as I have ever seen ---

That was a shame about Anthony Crews. He was a very talented QB and athlete, but got thrown to the wolves his freshman year.....anybody know whatever happened to the guy?

[SoCon48]

I don't want to get in a knock down drag out argument about this. But I'm not sure why Seagraves sucking has anything to do with Brevard or the fact that Hamilton was a terrible head coach and is pulling his same stunts at his current job.

And I hadn't realized that about the 10 loss season. But you're right, it had been that long. Another milestone, there were only 113 points scored in 12 games. And the fact that we shut out Paul Hamilton's ETSU team with that horrible team and lost to a bad D-II team.

I will buy your point that they were both descent assistants and not all assistants make good head coaches. They were both riddled with problems and both were too stubborn to take any criticism or modify they game plan or personnel. And both were terrible recruiters.

But Seagraves only coached in the SoCon 1 year, 2004. Seagraves won 1 SoCon game in 1 year. Hamilton won 2 in 2 years.



That's not exactly true and you know it. You always try to pull that.....

1999: games with ranked teams A&T, Samford, Western Illinois, Hofstra, Furman (3-2 against those teams)
2000: games with ranked Furman, Western kentucky, Georgia Southern and A&T (1-4 with those teams)
2001: James Madison, Furman, A&T, Western Kentucky Northwestern State, Hofstra, Georgia Southern, Youngstown State all were ranked
2002: Furman, Northwestern State, Wofford all were ranked

Ok, so you're right 2002 saw us play 3 good opponents. But the other years were packed with good opponents for that year.

But I'm not sure why Seagraves sucking has anything to do with Brevard or the fact that Hamilton was a terrible head coach and is pulling his same stunts at his current job.

Because Seagraves for some reason isn't given equal billing as a his an ineffective head coach for Elon It's made out like Hamilton was the only ineffective head coach and the sole reason Elon didn't compete well in its debut in the SoCon.

You're right, though the 2000 2-9 season did have some tough opponents.

And the fact that we shut out Paul Hamilton's ETSU team with that horrible team

True after they had became lame duck and tons of players allowed to transfer out. Elon scored 14 pts on them at Elon. It should be mentioned that Hamilton had taken care of Elon and Seagraves the previous year 31-14
The ranking thing was a bit oveerblown, but still some good schedules that took a lot of effort to develop. It took using several diff rankings and polls to comprise the claims of the number of ranked opponents as well as claiming their appearances in pre-season or only at various times of the season. Many didn't make the play-offs or bowed out first round as well as the SoCon opponents who sometimes made it further. Still the schedules as a whole were of merit even if many of the claimed ranked teams may not have participated in or faired well in the 16 participant play-offs. Of course that's true of many teams in any year who pass in and out of the rankings.

You're right, it doesn't warrant much of a discussion and now Elon is in the SoCon and that's what counts as it proves or disprove its mettle on a yearly basis vs its SoCon opponents.

[SoCon48]

- Two NC All-state QBs were recruited into the Elon program - One Anthony Crews started as a true freshmen - he had led Reidsville to the state championship and he reminded me of App's Richie Williams as a freshman - The other Wes Pope led Ragsdale to the state championship and he was a big kid with a strong arm - Pope got hurt early in the season and missed the rest of the season - The next year Hamilton comes in and moves Crews to WR and Pope to LB, TE, FB, anything to keep him from competing for the QB position which was handed over to Hamilton's son Kye. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but Kye Hamilton couldn't have started at QB for several high school teams in the area and that is not an exaggeration - the year after Hamilton is fired, Lembo moves Pope back to QB where he had an outstanding year. Unfortunately for Crews he left the program prior to Lembo's hiring --- It was truly as severe a case of nepotism as I have ever seen ---

Totally agree about the nepotism but realize too that Seagraves was just as sukky as Ham.
The program is better off without either of them as HC. At least they learned they weren't going to get a good coach on the cheap and that finally the admin was going to have to back the program if it was to compete well in the SoCon.

[gophoenix]

True after they had became lame duck and tons of players allowed to transfer out. Elon scored 14 pts on them at Elon. It should be mentioned that Hamilton had taken care of Elon and Seagraves the previous year 31-14

That's not exactly true, most (not all) stayed until the last year of ETSU football. And that ETSU team was 5-7. They put up 68 points on UTC that year and finished 5-7 with wins over The Citadel, UT-Martin, Concord and Liberty too. So, it's not like this ETSU was decimated to the extent that they couldn't play at all or win games against competition above Elon's level that year. Hamilton was just shut out by our bad team.

Like I said, this discussion is about Hamilton, not Seagraves. And I don't know why you get so defensive of Hamilton. It's not like anyone mentioned that he's an App grad or anything, which really has no impact on how bad of a coach he is.

[SoCon48]

And I don't know why you get so defensive of Hamilton. It's not like anyone mentioned that he's an App grad or anything

Same reason you single out Ham.
Just think he is a good person even if equally lousy as HC as Seagraves. ASU has nothing to do with it as it certainly has turned out hundreds of successful coaches in the college and high school ranks. Present ASU assistants included. ham is just a drop in the bucket.

When dissing the program under Ham, it's only fair to include the previous and equal decline under Seagraves as well as what mess was left there, too. Unfair to blame just one of the two. In fact the mindset and lack of financial support of the admin might be more to blame than either coach.

Notice App never offered Hamilton him a job after the ETSU program was discontinued, not even as an assistant. Even though he is liked as a person at ASU. that should tell you something.

with wins over The Citadel, UT-Martin, Concord and Liberty too
Wonder if he could have done that at Elon?

That's not exactly true, most (not all) stayed until the last year of ETSU football. So, it's not like this ETSU was decimated to the extent that they couldn't play at all or win games against competition above Elon's level that year. Hamilton was just shut out by our bad team.
Actually several key players were cherry picked by other programs. UNC picked up the DB who made all ACC that year as one example. .

As mentioned, he took care of Elon and Seagraves the previous year and by more.
Fair and balanced.;)

It is understandable that Elon fans needed a scapegoat after their initial entrance into the SoCon. It's just that they should have had two not one..not counting the admin. Surprising they only gave Seagraves one year in the SoCon. With only rare exceptions, most schools dispensed with their coaches shortly after entrance. Of course the prev 2 years had to have a bearing for Seagraves.

I think we agree on most of the scenario, just not to the same extent.
BTW, is Seagraves a HC anywhere now or is he in admin??

[gophoenix]

And I don't know why you get so defensive of Hamilton. It's not like anyone mentioned that he's an App grad or anything

Same reason you single out Ham.
Just think he is a good person even if equally lousy as HC as Seagraves. ASU has nothing to do with it as it certainly has turned out hundreds of successful coaches in the college and high school ranks. Present ASU assistants included. ham is just a drop in the bucket.

When dissing the program under Ham, it's only fair to include the previous and equal decline under Seagraves as well as what mess was left there, too. Unfair to blame just one of the two. In fact the mindset and lack of financial support of the admin might be more to blame than either coach.

Notice App never offered Hamilton him a job after the ETSU program was discontinued, not even as an assistant. Even though he is liked as a person at ASU. that should tell you something.

with wins over The Citadel, UT-Martin, Concord and Liberty too
Wonder if he could have done that at Elon?

That's not exactly true, most (not all) stayed until the last year of ETSU football. So, it's not like this ETSU was decimated to the extent that they couldn't play at all or win games against competition above Elon's level that year. Hamilton was just shut out by our bad team.
Actually several key players were cherry picked by other programs. UNC picked up the DB who made all ACC that year as one example. .

As mentioned, he took care of Elon and Seagraves the previous year and by more.
Fair and balanced.;)

It is understandable that Elon fans needed a scapegoat after their initial entrance into the SoCon. It's just that they should have had two not one..not counting the admin. Surprising they only gave Seagraves one year in the SoCon. With only rare exceptions, most schools dispensed with their coaches shortly after entrance. Of course the prev 2 years had to have a bearing for Seagraves.

I think we agree on most of the scenario, just not to the same extent.
BTW, is Seagraves a HC anywhere now or is he in admin??

I think Hamilton left more of a bad taste in my mouth than Seagraves I guess. Seagraves was just stubborn and refused to change schemes. To me, Hamilton was just way worse because he had good assistants and wasted talent on the team by what seemed to be creating an environment geared around his son. The nepotism was just the added bonus. It's one thing to suck because of lack of talent or incompetence. It is another to suck because you seem to intentionally throw the program under the bus.

But one thing I give Hamilton credit for is moving Chad Nkang from FB to LB.

Seagraves maybe still at Muskingham College maybe? Or some college in the Ohio D-II conference. Not sure though.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Totally agree about the nepotism but realize too that Seagraves was just as sukky as Ham.
The program is better off without either of them as HC. At least they learned they weren't going to get a good coach on the cheap and that finally the admin was going to have to back the program if it was to compete well in the SoCon.

One thing to keep in mind regarding Seagraves was that he recruited Crews and Pope and Nkang who is now playing with the Jags and several other quality players but was only given one year to make the change from the wishbone attack to a pro set --- Hamilton tried to go for a quick-fix and bring in some questionable "student"-athletes. If I'm not mistaken I believe Hamilton has something like 18 players flunk out of school --- Pete Lembo is a blessing for Elon - a great coach who does it the right way ---

[SoCon48]

One thing to keep in mind regarding Seagraves was that he recruited Crews and Pope and Nkang who is now playing with the Jags and several other quality players but was only given one year to make the change from the wishbone attack to a pro set --- Hamilton tried to go for a quick-fix and bring in some questionable "student"-athletes. If I'm not mistaken I believe Hamilton has something like 18 players flunk out of school --- Pete Lembo is a blessing for Elon - a great coach who does it the right way ---

I don't know, but if they were all his recruits, and not including leftovers from Seagraves, they really had to hump it to flunk out that fast!xlolx

If it does include Seagraves recruits, then Ham shouldn't get all the blame any more than Lembo should for Seagraves' Pope getting kicked out for cheating.

Lembo is a vast improvement over both and doesn't have the baggage of his son.

[SoCon48]

I think Hamilton left more of a bad taste in my mouth than Seagraves I guess. Seagraves was just stubborn and refused to change schemes. To me, Hamilton was just way worse because he had good assistants and wasted talent on the team by what seemed to be creating an environment geared around his son. The nepotism was just the added bonus. It's one thing to suck because of lack of talent or incompetence. It is another to suck because you seem to intentionally throw the program under the bus.

But one thing I give Hamilton credit for is moving Chad Nkang from FB to LB.

Seagraves maybe still at Muskingham College maybe? Or some college in the Ohio D-II conference. Not sure though.

Seagraves maybe still at Muskingham College maybe

He's not there now. Muskingham has a new coach who used to coach at Davidson. Muskingham won like a total of 5 games in 4 years. Regime change was in order.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I saw Seagraves at a friend's birthday party a few months back but did not ask him what he was now doing - His son is playing in the Canadian League and I talked with him for a while. Per the academic problems, I was told by Elon people that Hamilton's staff really got lax in the required study sessions, academic counseling, etc. and that led to many of the academic dismissals - not bad kids just weren't in an environment that was structured enough to keep them where they needed to be academically. I was also told by Elon people that Hamilton got away with the lax tactics at ETSU and was not happy that several marginal students he wanted were not admitted to Elon ---

[gophoenix]

I saw Seagraves at a friend's birthday party a few months back but did not ask him what he was now doing - His son is playing in the Canadian League and I talked with him for a while. Per the academic problems, I was told by Elon people that Hamilton's staff really got lax in the required study sessions, academic counseling, etc. and that led to many of the academic dismissals - not bad kids just weren't in an environment that was structured enough to keep them where they needed to be academically. I was also told by Elon people that Hamilton got away with the lax tactics at ETSU and was not happy that several marginal students he wanted were not admitted to Elon ---

I heard that too about some transfers her wanted that the school just flat out said no to with no exception. And once John Taylor and some others flunked out, the school game him no breathing room for anyone. Which is fine, we're schools first.

I don't think all the 18 players flunked out. I think many of them started getting close to that red line and transferred. Many of them went to Wingate and Newberry and assorted D-II HBCUs and finished their careers,

[whoanellie]

with all due respect to all you posters out there this is a FCS or D-1aa forum... make up a D-2 forum and knock yourself out!!!
All said parties were at that level once but not anymore.... to be entitled to be discussed in this forum Brevard should be at the prescribed level. I wish everyone the best and no ill will. for the record: I rejoined the Phoenix Club and pony up for tickets now but I did vote with my checkbook only thing folks understand is financial.

[catamount man]

with all due respect to all you posters out there this is a FCS or D-1aa forum... make up a D-2 forum and knock yourself out!!!
All said parties were at that level once but not anymore.... to be entitled to be discussed in this forum Brevard should be at the prescribed level. I wish everyone the best and no ill will. for the record: I rejoined the Phoenix Club and pony up for tickets now but I did vote with my checkbook only thing folks understand is financial.

Blame me if you must. I'll run every opinion by you next time. xcoffeex

[whoanellie]

Blame me if you must. I'll run every opinion by you next time. xcoffeex

there is no Blame to be had only old,frayed and painful memories.... sorta like your past season. One wants to forget it and move onward and upward. Once again certain posters will get a little pilling on and get the topic turned away from it's original intent.
sorta like taking US-64 from Brevard to Bryson City. What was I thinking?xrolleyesx

[catamount man]

there is no Blame to be had only old,frayed and painful memories.... sorta like your past season. One wants to forget it and move onward and upward. Once again certain posters will get a little pilling on and get the topic turned away from it's original intent.
sorta like taking US-64 from Brevard to Bryson City. What was I thinking?xrolleyesx

Try the last 2 seasons and I get your gist. Just thought some Elon fans may be interested. xthumbsupx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
with all due respect to all you posters out there this is a FCS or D-1aa forum... make up a D-2 forum and knock yourself out!!!
All said parties were at that level once but not anymore.... to be entitled to be discussed in this forum Brevard should be at the prescribed level. I wish everyone the best and no ill will. for the record: I rejoined the Phoenix Club and pony up for tickets now but I did vote with my checkbook only thing folks understand is financial.

I do think the plight of Elon football over the previous several years is important to share with the members because it shows what a great job Pete Lembo has done in the last couple of years - Many feel Elon football is a joke and always has been but they don't remember or don't know of the Back-to-Back National Championships in the early 80s - Yes, NAIA D-1, but that was quality football then - Elon was the nation's dominate football team in their classification just as APP has been the last 3 years - People need to know there is strong football history at Elon - Richard McGeorge the #1 first round draft pick of the Packers and several others like Brent Sexton a high draft choice of the Steelers and Quentin Ballard playing for the Colts and several more --- If Elon can keep Lembo they will be a force in FCS football ---

[gophoenix]

Try the last 2 seasons and I get your gist. Just thought some Elon fans may be interested. xthumbsupx

I was interested and appreciate the post and the discussion on it.

[SoCon48]

I heard that too about some transfers her wanted that the school just flat out said no to with no exception. And once John Taylor and some others flunked out, the school game him no breathing room for anyone. Which is fine, we're schools first.

I don't think all the 18 players flunked out. I think many of them started getting close to that red line and transferred. Many of them went to Wingate and Newberry and assorted D-II HBCUs and finished their careers,

GP, FWIW, I know zip about the others, but I do know that the receiver, Dan Brooks, from Union County's Piedmont who transferred to Wingate had no academic difficulties either prior to after attending Elon nor gripes about the school or the football program.

Wingate had recruited him all along and he felt he was a better fit for their level of play and is very close to home. Also, his former coach at Piedmont had strong Wingate ties.

[SoCon48]

I heard that too about some transfers her wanted that the school just flat out said no to with no exception. And once John Taylor and some others flunked out, the school game him no breathing room for anyone. Which is fine, we're schools first.

I don't think all the 18 players flunked out. I think many of them started getting close to that red line and transferred. Many of them went to Wingate and Newberry and assorted D-II HBCUs and finished their careers,

Dan Brooks from Piedmont High in Union County who transfered to Wingate had no academic difficulties nor gripes with Elon nor its athletic program.