CAA Football In Growth Spurt

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Interview with CAA commissioner Tom Yeager:

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=caa-football-in-growth-spurt&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


Q: Any idea yet how the scheduling will be done with that many schools?

Yeager: “It’s going to present some interesting scenarios because you start getting fractured. It’s likely that, with two, seven-team divisions, some players could go their entire career without playing some teams in the opposite division. It raises some issues like that, and we’ll have to sort them all out.”

Q: Northeastern was considering dropping football. What’s going on with the Huskies?

Yeager: “I don’t know how close they were, but it was clearly a subject that was going on last year. They have recommitted for now.”

Q: Is it possible that some schools could be asked to leave the conference under these circumstances?

Yeager: “That’s not usually something you do. It doesn’t work that way.”

Interesting stuff

[aust42]

Interview with CAA commissioner Tom Yeager:

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=caa-football-in-growth-spurt&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1



Interesting stuff

14 teams is too many teams in a conference. As others have speculated I think the football only members will eventually split off to form another conference.

[greenG]

14 teams is too many teams in a conference. As others have speculated I think the football only members will eventually split off to form another conference.

Fourteen teams is perfectly manageable if the conference splits into two, 7 team divisions, let's say North and South. Even playing an 11 game schedule that give each team 6 division games and lots of flexibility to schedule cross-division and OOC games.

Let's look at W&M, for example. They would play the 6 division rivals, play Delaware (who is a long-term rival and would be in the North division). The Tribe plays a yearly game against VMI and a money game against an ACC or SEC rival. At that point there could be 2 more cross over or OOC games, say with Towson and a SC/Big South foe. There's a complete schedule of attractive, meaningful games.

If the conference mandates 9 conference game (6 division, 3 crossover), the scheduling becomes even easier.

[aust42]

Fourteen teams is perfectly manageable if the conference splits into two, 7 team divisions, let's say North and South. Even playing an 11 game schedule that give each team 6 division games and lots of flexibility to schedule cross-division and OOC games.

Let's look at W&M, for example. They would play the 6 division rivals, play Delaware (who is a long-term rival and would be in the North division). The Tribe plays a yearly game against VMI and a money game against an ACC or SEC rival. At that point there could be 2 more cross over or OOC games, say with Towson and a SC/Big South foe. There's a complete schedule of attractive, meaningful games.

If the conference mandates 9 conference game (6 division, 3 crossover), the scheduling becomes even easier.

It can be managed but how can you have a true Conference Champion when your not playing 6 teams in your own conference each year? And I certainly wouldn't want to have a 9 game conference schedule. Even then your still not playing 5 teams in your conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fourteen teams is perfectly manageable if the conference splits into two, 7 team divisions, let's say North and South. Even playing an 11 game schedule that give each team 6 division games and lots of flexibility to schedule cross-division and OOC games.

Let's look at W&M, for example. They would play the 6 division rivals, play Delaware (who is a long-term rival and would be in the North division). The Tribe plays a yearly game against VMI and a money game against an ACC or SEC rival. At that point there could be 2 more cross over or OOC games, say with Towson and a SC/Big South foe. There's a complete schedule of attractive, meaningful games.

If the conference mandates 9 conference game (6 division, 3 crossover), the scheduling becomes even easier.

Great.... if you're in CAA South. But take a peek at the North, where teams like URI and Hofstra may not play Delaware ONCE in their college careers - and they're in the same league!

This isn't like FBS where there's a conference champion and you have a fighting chance to play the best team in the other division every year.

Could we see a return of the dreaded "nine game mandate" in the CAA? xconfusedx

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

It can be managed but how can you have a true Conference Champion when your not playing 6 teams in your own conference each year? And I certainly wouldn't want to have a 9 game conference schedule. Even then your still not playing 5 teams in your conference.


Why do you need a true conference champion?

[OL FU]

Fourteen teams is perfectly manageable if the conference splits into two, 7 team divisions, let's say North and South. Even playing an 11 game schedule that give each team 6 division games and lots of flexibility to schedule cross-division and OOC games.

Let's look at W&M, for example. They would play the 6 division rivals, play Delaware (who is a long-term rival and would be in the North division). The Tribe plays a yearly game against VMI and a money game against an ACC or SEC rival. At that point there could be 2 more cross over or OOC games, say with Towson and a SC/Big South foe. There's a complete schedule of attractive, meaningful games.

If the conference mandates 9 conference game (6 division, 3 crossover), the scheduling becomes even easier.

It may be manageable, but effectively you have two conferences. Might as well admit it and do something about it.

In my opinion it is not an attractive situation. Of course, in my opinion, 12 teams is not an attractive situation. xrotatehx

[OL FU]

Why do you need a true conference champion?

I suppose when you really have two conferences within a conference, you really don't need onexsmiley_wix

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

It may be manageable, but effectively you have two conferences. Might as well admit it and do something about it.

In my opinion it is not an attractive situation. Of course, in my opinion, 12 teams is not an attractive situation. xrotatehx


As part of the CAA North UNH is guaranteed a home and home every year with the CAA south teams.

If UNH was part of America East Football how many of those teams would make the trip to Durham?

UNH would never be able to put together a play off caliber OOC schedule unless they were on the road evey week.

[89Hen]

I still think the CAA will find a way to pressure some teams to leave if they don't do so on their own. henfan and I disagree on this one all the time, but that's just what I think.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I still think the CAA will find a way to pressure some teams to leave if they don't do so on their own. henfan and I disagree on this one all the time, but that's just what I think.

I'm sorry to say I'm with you on this one.

It's in UNH's best interest to hang in with the CAA for as long as possible.

I do hope Henfan is right. (He always seems to be the best and brightest of all the UD posters):p

[Black Saturday]

It may be manageable, but effectively you have two conferences. Might as well admit it and do something about it.

In my opinion it is not an attractive situation. Of course, in my opinion, 12 teams is not an attractive situation. xrotatehx

Especially come playoff selection time. The CAA top teams have an unfair advantage over other conferences. In some scenarios the top teams may not face each other and therefore produce teams with one or less losses by playing bottom feeders. Just go back and look at the conference finishes and look at the schedules.

In my opinion the CAA needs to add and divide or spinoff.

Imagine if over the years that the SoCon Big 3 may or may not have had to play one another?

[OL FU]

As part of the CAA North UNH is guaranteed a home and home every year with the CAA south teams.

If UNH was part of America East Football how many of those teams would make the trip to Durham?

UNH would never be able to put together a play off caliber OOC schedule unless they were on the road evey week.

I make no argument that a large CAA is better for UNH than another conference. It is only my humble opinion that I would prefer not to have that situation. Conference ties and rivalries are strengthen by playing each team every year. My fear is that the Socon will attempt to expand beyond the 9 present teams which of course will put and end to our ability to play every conference member every year. xnodx

[MplsBison]

Fourteen teams is perfectly manageable if the conference splits into two, 7 team divisions, let's say North and South.

Says the guy whose team has a comfortable spot as a full sports member of the CAA.



Now lets hear from the football only members.

[bostonspider]

Well UR is a football only member and I forone would be happy with two divisions of 7. Play 6 games against your division mates, and maybe 2 or 3 against the other division. That I guess depends on whether or not there are 12 or 11 games per year. As long as UR is in the south division with W&M, JMU and now ODU, I will be happy. The Divisions as I would most like to see them

North
UNH
Maine
UMass
NU
URI
Hofstra
Towson

South
GSU
ODU
W&M
UR
JMU
UD
VU

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The silence from members of the NORTH division are deafening. Of course South division people are absolutely fine with playing Delaware every year.

[Ruler]

Spin off and add Albany and Stony Brook you know you want to.

[DRocksDad]

Why do you need a true conference champion?

In my opinion, every DI conference should have a conference championship game. one thing i still dont like baout the bIG 10

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The silence from members of the NORTH division are deafening. Of course South division people are absolutely fine with playing Delaware every year.

Geez, the thread has only been here for a few hours! xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Besides, why do you insist on stirring up this pot over and over again when consistently many CAA posters like myself have stated not crowning a conference champ isn't a big deal and that the scheduling and competition benefits of a large CAA are much more important. I feel that's true for UNH, UMass, Maine and URI.

My observation to date is that administration by the CAA is superior to what I see from America East for the all sports league or from the A-10 in the past. To me that's just another advantage to staying with the CAA. And I concur with YorkCounty's posts.

And I laughed out loud when I read the post about the unfair advantage because of the two divisions. Some of you need to come and watch multiple CAA games in a season. You'd then realize like we do that there is usually a thin line of difference between the mid-pack teams and the upper tier teams. And frankly not a significant gap between the lower tier and mid-pack teams. There is enough quality in both divisions to prove playoff worthiness.

[DRocksDad]

Well UR is a football only member and I forone would be happy with two divisions of 7. Play 6 games against your division mates, and maybe 2 or 3 against the other division. That I guess depends on whether or not there are 12 or 11 games per year. As long as UR is in the south division with W&M, JMU and now ODU, I will be happy. The Divisions as I would most like to see them

North
UNH
Maine
UMass
NU
URI
Hofstra
Towson

South
GSU
ODU
W&M
UR
JMU
UD
VU

....and a championship game with the two division winners? or the two best records? gotta have a championship game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Geez, the thread has only been here for a few hours! xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Besides, why do you insist on stirring up this pot over and over again when consistently many CAA posters like myself have stated not crowning a conference champ isn't a big deal and that the scheduling and competition benefits of a large CAA are much more important. I feel that's true for UNH, UMass, Maine and URI.

My observation to date is that administration by the CAA is superior to what I see from America East for the all sports league or from the A-10 in the past. To me that's just another advantage to staying with the CAA. And I concur with YorkCounty's posts.

And I laughed out loud when I read the post about the unfair advantage because of the two divisions. Some of you need to come and watch multiple CAA games in a season. You'd then realize like we do that there is usually a thin line of difference between the mid-pack teams and the upper tier teams. And frankly not a significant gap between the lower tier and mid-pack teams. There is enough quality in both divisions to prove playoff worthiness.

I disagree about the conference championship thing, but that's not what I'm talking about here. It's the possibility that some UNH football players go four years without playing Delaware - home or away. And not just UNH - it's Hofstra, UMass, URI... maybe Towson, Villanova when one of those teams is evicted from the South...

The biggest proponents of the split and staying with 14 teams are Richmond and W&M fans, who have zero chance of losing their southern rivalry with Delaware. But the commissioner obviously thinks there is a discussion to be had... and it's his words that need to bear repeating. Right? After all, UNH is in the crossfire here...

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

As part of the CAA North UNH is guaranteed a home and home every year with the CAA south teams.

If UNH was part of America East Football how many of those teams would make the trip to Durham?

UNH would never be able to put together a play off caliber OOC schedule unless they were on the road evey week.

The main reasons why I have never been a proponent of any of the AE football scenarios I've heard!! Now if you had an AE Football scenario starting with the following as a base:

Maine
UNH
NU
UMass
URI
Stony Brook
Hofstra
Albany

Then I think you'd have much less opposition. Unfortunately, AE screwed the pooch a few years ago when Delaware, Hofstra, Towson were all sports members. We might have been looking at those eight above with Delaware and Towson if the AE "brain trust" and a bunch of AD's had realized how adamant Delaware was about an all sports conference that included football!!

But today's reality has Hofstra and Northeastern as all sports members of the CAA. And I don't think they're going anywhere.

How about we all just sit back and relax. Let a few years go by to see if the Big East implodes and has a trickle down effect or if any CAA South teams move up. In the mean time I really don't think any undeserving teams are making the playoffs nor will any when the league goes to 14 teams.

[jessesd]

I think that 14 team conference is too big and has a very high risk of failing when it becomes a reality because of the Football-only and all-sports schools individual interests and disparities, (blink, blink “Big East!”).
I would assume here, “pure speculation” that there are some team reallocations/defections in the books and by reading the article makes me feel that the comish already knows who those teams are and by the time Georgia State hits the field, the conference will be at least two teams shorter, shorter footprint and the possibility of couple of new schools in the lineup!

I have nothing to back this up, but it looks that way from a strategic point of view.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I disagree about the conference championship thing, but that's not what I'm talking about here. It's the possibility that some UNH football players go four years without playing Delaware - home or away. And not just UNH - it's Hofstra, UMass, URI... maybe Towson, Villanova when one of those teams is evicted from the South...

The biggest proponents of the split and staying with 14 teams are Richmond and W&M fans, who have zero chance of losing their southern rivalry with Delaware. But the commissioner obviously thinks there is a discussion to be had... and it's his words that need to bear repeating. Right? After all, UNH is in the crossfire here...

And this is what the Commissioner said:


Q: Is it possible that some schools could be asked to leave the conference under these circumstances?

Yeager: “That’s not usually something you do. It doesn’t work that way.”

That doesn't sound like evicting teams is high on his agenda!

In my perfect world, I'd love for UNH to play Delaware every year because of all the South teams, they are the one we have the most tradition with. They are in our top ten of most played schools and the series goes back to the 1950's. I'd vote for them to be in the North as the 7th team which many might mandate for a perceived competitive balance.

But you know what, I don't lose any sleep over it because I know we will play another quality team in their place. And you know what, I don't have a problem with 14 teams. We'll still have six teams we'd play every year, isn't that similar to the Patriot? They could go to 16 or 18 teams and it would still be better than the AE alternatives that I've seen.

Let me ask you LFN, are the Patriot League teams lining up to schedule teams in this new AE Football Conference? I sure haven't seen anything leading me to believe that they are. And from what I hear, Dartmouth can't wait for the contract with UNH to end. Without Patriot or Ivy teams, UNH scheduling is a nightmare. I wouldn't mind a nine game mandate by the CAA. We'd play an FBS team or an out of region FCS and Albany. Sounds fine to me. Quality teams to watch every week as a season's ticket holder!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In my perfect world, I'd love for UNH to play Delaware every year because of all the South teams, they are the one we have the most tradition with. They are in our top ten of most played schools and the series goes back to the 1950's. I'd vote for them to be in the North as the 7th team which many might mandate for a perceived competitive balance.

I bet you would! And I bet all the teams in the South would vote to have Delaware in their division. I don't think that tug-of-war is something the commissioner would like to have to do... and it's looming.


But you know what, I don't lose any sleep over it because I know we will play another quality team in their place. And you know what, I don't have a problem with 14 teams. We'll still have six teams we'd play every year, isn't that similar to the Patriot? They could go to 16 or 18 teams and it would still be better than the AE alternatives that I've seen.

You may not, but I bet your AD does.


Let me ask you LFN, are the Patriot League teams lining up to schedule teams in this new AE Football Conference? I sure haven't seen anything leading me to believe that they are. And from what I hear, Dartmouth can't wait for the contract with UNH to end. Without Patriot or Ivy teams, UNH scheduling is a nightmare. I wouldn't mind a nine game mandate by the CAA. We'd play an FBS team or an out of region FCS and Albany. Sounds fine to me. Quality teams to watch every week as a season's ticket holder!!

Agreed that your scheduling is a problem. In the PL, there are no teams lining up largely because Holy Cross and Colgate are committed to UMass as their CAA OOC game and aren't eager to add another. However... with a NEC with full scholarship, you'd have Bryant, CCSU, Albany... which you said you'd be OK with as an OOC game.

It's too bad Dartmouth doesn't care enough about football to keep the UNH game alive. I know they don't like getting creamed every year, that's why they want it to end.

A nine-game mandate will kill your OOC - and - the strength of the CAA. That's what happened to the SWAC, after all...

[DTSpider]

I'm not sure why it's a big deal that some teams may not play others. If you were to just completely separate the CAA between North & South, those two 7-team conferences would certainly provide the "top" teams with playoff creditials. The reality is that it really doesn't matter that it'll almost be 2 conferences. There is nothing tied to being a conference champion as the top teams would qualify for the playoffs anyway and seeding is not based on being a conference champion.

[GannonFan]

With a playoff system in FCS, and with the CAA champion (or A10 or Yankee) having always been worthy of the playoff even without an autobid, having a "true" conference champion just isn't that big of a deal. It's interesting that most of the CAA posters feel this way, but people outside of the CAA just can't wrap their heads around that concept. The CAA's going to be getting 2-5 teams in the playoffs every year, and if they expand the playoffs to 20 the CAA may very well get 6 or 7 in in really good years.

Basically, there's no real reason why, in the CAA, that a "true" champion needs to be crowned - the playoffs are what really matters in the end. xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

And yet, there will still exist a significant division between full sports members and football only members.

[ChooChoo]

I would be fine with the 14 team CAA. I do, however, think that some time in the not too distant future that several CAA schools will try the move up. The schools that remain would still have a fine 9 team Conference:
Maine
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Hofstra
Villanova
Towson
Richmond
William and Mary

So the 5 I think that may make the jump (under the right circumstances):
UMass
Delaware
JMU
ODU
Georgia State
+
Indys Army & Navy
MAC oddball, Temple
"FBS or Bust" hopefuls, Charlotte
-----------------
A pretty plausible football conference

[89Hen]

FWIW, I don't like a 14 team conference at all and it has nothing to do with not crowning a true champion. If you asked me how many CAA/A10/Yankee titles the Hens had, I wouldn't even have a guess. That's because I really don't care who wins the conference. The playoffs are the prize in I-AA, not conference championships.

I don't like 14 because it makes no sense to not play teams in your conference for four year periods. That's just stupid. Why even have a "conference"? Just call it a bunch of Independants who have an agreement to all play each other. xcoolx

[ur2k]

I would be fine with the 14 team CAA. I do, however, think that some time in the not too distant future that several CAA schools will try the move up. The schools that remain would still have a fine 9 team Conference:
Maine
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Hofstra
Villanova
Towson
Richmond
William and Mary

So the 5 I think that may make the jump (under the right circumstances):
UMass
Delaware
JMU
ODU
Georgia State
+
Indys Army & Navy
MAC oddball, Temple
"FBS or Bust" hopefuls, Charlotte
-----------------
A pretty plausible football conference

The problem with that is that at UMASS (I presume) like at Richmond, basketball drives the bus. In that scenario, does UMASS leave the A10 (a lot better basketball than this scenario) to go to this would be conference or just becomes a football only member of this lower level I-A (non-BCS) conference. I just don't see it.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I bet you would! And I bet all the teams in the South would vote to have Delaware in their division. I don't think that tug-of-war is something the commissioner would like to have to do... and it's looming.

That's what he gets paid big bucks to do. ;)


You may not, but I bet your AD does.

Based on prior discussions I've had with him, I don't think so. Why would he be, his scheduling for football is easier.


Agreed that your scheduling is a problem. In the PL, there are no teams lining up largely because Holy Cross and Colgate are committed to UMass as their CAA OOC game and aren't eager to add another. However... with a NEC with full scholarship, you'd have Bryant, CCSU, Albany... which you said you'd be OK with as an OOC game.

It's too bad Dartmouth doesn't care enough about football to keep the UNH game alive. I know they don't like getting creamed every year, that's why they want it to end.

Why don't the Patriot teams want to play more than one CAA team? Why doesn't every Patriot team play at least one CAA team? One would think that if they truly wanted to play the best and improve their league's rating that there would be more CAA teams on their schedules. They certainly have plenty of OOC games available and plenty of CAA schools within a bus trip.

Just like Dartmouth, heaven forbid they try to improve instead. Funny, how Dartmouth had no problem with the series when they were doing the creaming. UNH never backed down once when Dartmouth was powerful. But this will be the second time that Dartmouth has ended the series when UNH has improved.

I'm OK with Albany as an OOC game because they are an AE mate and a public institution with similar academics for the total population and more importantly for their student athletes.

Your AE alternative has fewer conference teams and overall weaker competition than the current CAA. Now you want me to be ecstatic about OOC games with Bryant and CCSU? Sorry, but I'd rather keep playing Hofstra, Towson, Northeastern, etc. And with all these wonderful AE proposals, they would need to schedule five OOC games.

CAA North (with six or seven teams) is better than any AE proposal I've heard.

Games vs. whoever from the CAA South are significantly better than the probable OOC games in the proposed AE alignments.

The quality of those games is a huge factor in why I'm a season ticket holder despite living almost three hours away.


A nine-game mandate will kill your OOC - and - the strength of the CAA. That's what happened to the SWAC, after all...

You can't be serious. xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx When the A-10 had a nine game mandate, it didn't kill the strength of the A-10. How in the world would nine games against quality teams from the CAA kill the strength of the league? And the point of the nine game mandate would be to keep at least three "crossover" games each year. For all intent and purpose they are OOC games. Now there would only be two OOC games left to schedule. Don't understand how that kills one's OOC schedule.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

....and a championship game with the two division winners? or the two best records? gotta have a championship game.

Not financially feasible within FCS. Even if you left the last Saturday of the regular season for some sort of cross division pairings (North #1 vs. South #1, North #2 vs. South #2, etc.), not being able to make travel arrangements in advance would make the games too expensive.

[Go...gate]

And this is what the Commissioner said:



That doesn't sound like evicting teams is high on his agenda!

In my perfect world, I'd love for UNH to play Delaware every year because of all the South teams, they are the one we have the most tradition with. They are in our top ten of most played schools and the series goes back to the 1950's. I'd vote for them to be in the North as the 7th team which many might mandate for a perceived competitive balance.

But you know what, I don't lose any sleep over it because I know we will play another quality team in their place. And you know what, I don't have a problem with 14 teams. We'll still have six teams we'd play every year, isn't that similar to the Patriot? They could go to 16 or 18 teams and it would still be better than the AE alternatives that I've seen.

Let me ask you LFN, are the Patriot League teams lining up to schedule teams in this new AE Football Conference? I sure haven't seen anything leading me to believe that they are. And from what I hear, Dartmouth can't wait for the contract with UNH to end. Without Patriot or Ivy teams, UNH scheduling is a nightmare. I wouldn't mind a nine game mandate by the CAA. We'd play an FBS team or an out of region FCS and Albany. Sounds fine to me. Quality teams to watch every week as a season's ticket holder!!

They also wanted out from a similar contract with Colgate, which ends in 2011.

But let's be candid about Dartmouth; in contrast to Princeton, which has entered into home-and-home contracts with Hampton and The Citadel, and has played Colgate nearly every year for 50 years, and Lehigh and Lafayette many times in the past century, Dartmouth really appears to be systematically abandoning any real effort to be competitive against anybody else in sports except Ivy teams. IMO, this is the same BS they started pulling in basketball about 40 years ago it has spread to most of their intercollegiate sports programs. Institutionally, they have become the most insular school in the Ivy League when it comes to OOC match-ups; they only want to play somebody who they have an even to overwhelming chance to beat.

I think teams in a "new" Yankee Conference would have plenty of Ivy and Patriot teams who would play them. Colgate and Holy Cross certainly would, as would FBS Army.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

FWIW, I don't like a 14 team conference at all and it has nothing to do with not crowning a true champion. If you asked me how many CAA/A10/Yankee titles the Hens had, I wouldn't even have a guess. That's because I really don't care who wins the conference. The playoffs are the prize in I-AA, not conference championships.

I don't like 14 because it makes no sense to not play teams in your conference for four year periods. That's just stupid. Why even have a "conference"? Just call it a bunch of Independants who have an agreement to all play each other. xcoolx

I understand your logic, but the way I look at it is that I'm playing all the members of my "conference" (CAA North) each season and I have this great built in arrangement to play three CAA South teams. My school gets three quality games that are the least expensive flight games possible.

For a moment 89, step outside your Delaware perspective. You guys have no problem scheduling, you don't have to go on the road for an OOC game if you don't want to. That agreement to "all play each other" is huge for more CAA schools than just UNH.

[MplsBison]

not being able to make travel arrangements in advance would make the games too expensive.

That's too easy:


have everyone chip in to a CAA fund that will purchase arrangements at each city.


Then, when the pairings are announced, simply give each team the arrangement that they need.

[MplsBison]

They also wanted out from a similar contract with Colgate, which ends in 2011.

But let's be candid about Dartmouth; in contrast to Princeton, which has entered into home-and-home contracts with Hampton and The Citadel, and has played Colgate nearly every year for 50 years, and Lehigh and Lafayette many times in the past century, Dartmouth really appears to be systematically abandoning any real effort to be competitive against anybody else in sports except Ivy teams. IMO, this is the same BS they started pulling in basketball about 40 years ago it has spread to most of their intercollegiate sports programs. Institutionally, they have become the most insular school in the Ivy League when it comes to OOC match-ups; they only want to play somebody who they have an even to overwhelming chance to beat.

I think teams in a "new" Yankee Conference would have plenty of Ivy and Patriot teams who would play them. Colgate and Holy Cross certainly would, as would FBS Army.


Maybe when the Ivy finally splits up, you can get a cross bred Patriot/Ivy leauge with teams like Holy Cross and Dartmouth either joining the NESCAC or forming a league like that in DIII.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

They also wanted out from a similar contract with Colgate, which ends in 2011.

But let's be candid about Dartmouth; in contrast to Princeton, which has entered into home-and-home contracts with Hampton and The Citadel, and has played Colgate nearly every year for 50 years, and Lehigh and Lafayette many times in the past century, Dartmouth really appears to be systematically abandoning any real effort to be competitive against anybody else in sports except Ivy teams. IMO, this is the same BS they started pulling in basketball about 40 years ago it has spread to most of their intercollegiate sports programs. Institutionally, they have become the most insular school in the Ivy League when it comes to OOC match-ups; they only want to play somebody who they have an even to overwhelming chance to beat.

I think teams in a "new" Yankee Conference would have plenty of Ivy and Patriot teams who would play them. Colgate and Holy Cross certainly would, as would FBS Army.

Agreed, pretty sad state of affairs in Hanover these days.

I wish I shared your optimism, but the other Ivy schools, despite often playing UNH in many sports, have never played UNH often in football and haven't done so since back in the 1930's or so. Colgate plays UNH fairly often in basketball and some other sports, but we haven't played football since 1990. UNH and Holy Cross despite being less than an hour and a half drive apart don't often play in any sport. The last football game I see was in 1984. Sorry, I don't foresee the Ivy and Patriot teams lining up to play all the teams within this "new Yankee Conference". This isn't just an issue for UNH, it will be for Maine, URI, and possibly even UMass too.

[89Hen]

For a moment 89, step outside your Delaware perspective. You guys have no problem scheduling, you don't have to go on the road for an OOC game if you don't want to. That agreement to "all play each other" is huge for more CAA schools than just UNH.
Depends on the split. IF the CAA were to split and you were in a new conference, you could find yourself with 7-8 teams and then it would actually become EASIER to schedule because you'd have the old CAA for OOC games. You have to currently find 3 OOC games outside of the CAA (except for that weird OOC vs the Hens a few years ago), so finding 4 where you can use the CAA teams seems like it would be actually easier. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

....and a championship game with the two division winners? or the two best records? gotta have a championship game.


Not financially feasible within FCS. Even if you left the last Saturday of the regular season for some sort of cross division pairings (North #1 vs. South #1, North #2 vs. South #2, etc.), not being able to make travel arrangements in advance would make the games too expensive.
I think it goes beyond financials, that's just a scheduling nightmare and those games would really have to be OOC games since you can't make the conference schedule without knowing the standings. Also, what if you have two 8-3 teams who already met each other battling for the conference title in a CG... the loser could miss the playoffs. Championship games in I-AA don't make sense unless the auto was the only way to get in the playoffs.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Depends on the split. IF the CAA were to split and you were in a new conference, you could find yourself with 7-8 teams and then it would actually become EASIER to schedule because you'd have the old CAA for OOC games. You have to currently find 3 OOC games outside of the CAA (except for that weird OOC vs the Hens a few years ago), so finding 4 where you can use the CAA teams seems like it would be actually easier. xthumbsupx

Disagree, because I don't think the CAA teams would be available for that OOC scheduling. Are you telling me that Delaware will schedule an ongoing home and home series with UNH? I don't think they will. Northeastern probably would. Hofstra and Towson might. Forget about everybody else, they have too many other options. That won't make scheduling easier.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I think it goes beyond financials, that's just a scheduling nightmare and those games would really have to be OOC games since you can't make the conference schedule without knowing the standings. Also, what if you have two 8-3 teams who already met each other battling for the conference title in a CG... the loser could miss the playoffs. Championship games in I-AA don't make sense unless the auto was the only way to get in the playoffs.

Agreed, but my example was that it was the 11th game for each team because I knew a 12th game for a championship couldn't happen. But I wasn't in favor of it, knew it was a scheduling nightmare. Actually was trying to give more credence to how a championship games just isn't feasible in FCS.

[ChooChoo]

The problem with that is that at UMASS (I presume) like at Richmond, basketball drives the bus. In that scenario, does UMASS leave the A10 (a lot better basketball than this scenario) to go to this would be conference or just becomes a football only member of this lower level I-A (non-BCS) conference. I just don't see it.

I suppose I see it as the FBS equivalent to the CAA. With UNCC, Temple, and UMass on board you could even call it the Atlantic 10. I agree that getting a new all-sports conference would be a pretty difficult task (especially if you include Army and Navy in the scenarios). I just have a feeling that this is something that's going to happen. It may not be this group exactly, but I think some new hybrid of eastern schools will be joining up.

[ur2k]

I suppose I see it as the FBS equivalent to the CAA. With UNCC, Temple, and UMass on board you could even call it the Atlantic 10. I agree that getting a new all-sports conference would be a pretty difficult task (especially if you include Army and Navy in the scenarios). I just have a feeling that this is something that's going to happen. It may not be this group exactly, but I think some new hybrid of eastern schools will be joining up.

Maybe. But I guess my question is - Would you better off competing at a low level of FBS (non-BCS) or at the top of FCS? My opinion is that I'd rather see Richmond compete for a National Championship in FCS than in a conference like the MAC or Sun Belt where you are hoping you may get an invite to some 3rd tier Bowl Game.

Either way, I don't see a lot of conference moving until the often talked about Big East blow-up between football and non-football schools occurs.

[89Hen]

Disagree, because I don't think the CAA teams would be available for that OOC scheduling. Are you telling me that Delaware will schedule an ongoing home and home series with UNH? I don't think they will. Northeastern probably would. Hofstra and Towson might. Forget about everybody else, they have too many other options. That won't make scheduling easier.
I don't think they will either, but Delaware might with UMass or Villanova or Richmond... But like you said, you could do it with Hoftsra, NU, Towson, W&M.... You've got Darmouth already and I'm guessing would continue with a I-A every year (if they aren't scared of you yet xsmiley_wix )... so that really only leaves you a couple of OOC games needed anyway.

[89Hen]

Actually was trying to give more credence to how a championship games just isn't feasible in FCS.
xthumbsupx Not sure how much more credence you or I need to give it though. We should probably just say "championship games in I-AA are just not feasible from many levels" and leave it at that. xsmiley_wix

[813Jag]

xthumbsupx Not sure how much more credence you or I need to give it though. We should probably just say "championship games in I-AA are just not feasible from many levels" and leave it at that. xsmiley_wix
I really have never been a fan of ours.

[89Hen]

I really have never been a fan of ours.
I actually didn't think about the SWAC. That one actually does work for some people. I should have said championship games don't work for conferences more interested in playoffs.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't think they will either, but Delaware might with UMass or Villanova or Richmond... But like you said, you could do it with Hoftsra, NU, Towson, W&M.... You've got Darmouth already and I'm guessing would continue with a I-A every year (if they aren't scared of you yet xsmiley_wix )... so that really only leaves you a couple of OOC games needed anyway.

I said Hofstra and Towson might schedule a home and home series. I seriously doubt W&M would. Northeastern is the only one I would count on.

From all reports Dartmouth has zero interest in continuing the series with UNH once the current contract runs its course. Current scheduling (and past history) by the other New England Ivies doesn't make them prime candidates to take Dartmouth's place on the UNH schedule.

I think UNH getting I-A games has become more difficult. AFAIK, we don't have one for 2009 and then will play Pittsburgh in 2010. The only other one in the future that I've heard about is Boston College in something like 2014.

So, from these AE proposals, we'd have six league games and probably a sure OOC series with Northeastern. Significant scheduling work to fill four games every year. Even more work to equal the current SOS and alternating between five and six home games.

[813Jag]

I actually didn't think about the SWAC. That one actually does work for some people. I should have said championship games don't work for conferences more interested in playoffs.
Your point is true, but even though Southern isn't elgible for the playoffs, I've never been a fan of the championship game.

[ChooChoo]

Maybe. But I guess my question is - Would you better off competing at a low level of FBS (non-BCS) or at the top of FCS? My opinion is that I'd rather see Richmond compete for a National Championship in FCS than in a conference like the MAC or Sun Belt where you are hoping you may get an invite to some 3rd tier Bowl Game.

Perhaps. I guess that's just an institutional decision. For every Montana and Delaware that could move up but doesn't, there's a Jacksonville St. and Texas St. that maybe shouldn't but plans to. For some the paydays and exposure are more valuable than championships.


Either way, I don't see a lot of conference moving until the often talked about Big East blow-up between football and non-football schools occurs.
With that we both agree.