The new CAA

[ChickenMan]

With the additons of ODU and now Georgia St.. the CAA.. if no changes are made.. will become a 14 member football league by 2010.


There will be 8 all-sports members:

Delaware
Georgia St
Hofstra
JMU
N'eastern
Old Dominion
Towson
William/Mary


there will be 6 football 'only' members:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Richmond
Villanova


I doubt that will happen.. 14 is just too many.. the only question is will all the football 'only' members eventually be jettisoned.. or just a few???

[PantherRob82]

Would like to see all 5 football only members out. Then the CAA could play a full 8 game slate.

The other 5 pick up another school or two. UNH and UMass have been great teams the last couple years.

[Rekdiver]

Well that's great, now the CAA can get 7 bids to the FCS.......

[stevdock]

Is there a good reason why Georgia St would join the CAA instead of the SoCon? That is a really long trip to hook up with the core teams from the CAA every week. I know that other conferences have that long trip in there too, but since the SoCon is right there, it doesn't make sense to me.

[danefan]

America East
Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Stony Brook??
Albany??
Central Connecticut??

Winner is pretty much guaranteed an at-large for the years before they qualify for an AQ, especially with playoff expansion.

[andy7171]

I can't really see Villanova leaving just to join another football only NEC or AE conference.

[OL FU]

Is there a good reason why Georgia St would join the CAA instead of the SoCon? That is a really long trip to hook up with the core teams from the CAA every week. I know that other conferences have that long trip in there too, but since the SoCon is right there, it doesn't make sense to me.

Because they are already in the CAAxconfusedx

[andy7171]

Is there a good reason why Georgia St would join the CAA instead of the SoCon? That is a really long trip to hook up with the core teams from the CAA every week. I know that other conferences have that long trip in there too, but since the SoCon is right there, it doesn't make sense to me.

Georgia State is in all sports('cept football) member of the CAA already.

[ChickenMan]

Is there a good reason why Georgia St would join the CAA instead of the SoCon? That is a really long trip to hook up with the core teams from the CAA every week. I know that other conferences have that long trip in there too, but since the SoCon is right there, it doesn't make sense to me.


they are already a member of the CAA

[stevdock]

Thanks for telling me that. I didn't know they were in the CAA in all other sports.

[AppStFan76]

Is there a good reason why Georgia St would join the CAA instead of the SoCon? That is a really long trip to hook up with the core teams from the CAA every week. I know that other conferences have that long trip in there too, but since the SoCon is right there, it doesn't make sense to me.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/cfb/entries/2008/04/17/how_georgia_sta.html

3. Make it your goal to eventually play in the Southern Conference: The Colonial Athletic Association is a fine league but college football is built around rivalries. All of Georgia State’s natural rivalries in I-AA football (Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Chattanooga, Furman) are in the Southern Conference. When Georgia State’s new president arrives (Dr. Carl Patton retires in June) later this year, he or she should start reaching out to the fellow presidents in the Southern Conference to determine what it is going to take to gain membership. Then do it. Whatever it takes. Whatever it costs.

you're not the only one who thinks they should join the southern Conference

[andy7171]

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/cfb/entries/2008/04/17/how_georgia_sta.html

3. Make it your goal to eventually play in the Southern Conference: The Colonial Athletic Association is a fine league but college football is built around rivalries. All of Georgia State’s natural rivalries in I-AA football (Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Chattanooga, Furman) are in the Southern Conference. When Georgia State’s new president arrives (Dr. Carl Patton retires in June) later this year, he or she should start reaching out to the fellow presidents in the Southern Conference to determine what it is going to take to gain membership. Then do it. Whatever it takes. Whatever it costs.

you're not the only one who thinks they should join the southern Conference

Oh, I agree. Georgia is too far south in my opinion for the CAA to stretch. I'd like to keep it Virginia and north, with UNC-Wilmington furthest for non-football sports.

[mcveyrl]

Oh, I agree. Georgia is too far south in my opinion for the CAA to stretch. I'd like to keep it Virginia and north, with UNC-Wilmington furthest for non-football sports.

I agree. I've always thought that Ga. St. was an interesting add for the conference, although having some ATL presence isn't bad.

[Ivytalk]

I don't know a thing about Georgia State. How does it compare to UGA and GSU academically? To GSU athletically?xconfusedx

[AshevilleApp2]

I don't know a thing about Georgia State. How does it compare to UGA and GSU academically? To GSU athletically?xconfusedx

They've got a pretty good Masters in Urban Planning program from what I understand.

[Touchdown Yosef]

How would the big south fit GSU?

[Blue Hen Nation]

Well that's great, now the CAA can get 7 bids to the FCS.......

I was thinking the same thing lol

[ChickenMan]

you're not the only one who thinks they should join the southern Conference

If I were a SoCon fan I would feel exactly the same way. The last thing the SoCon needs is for the CAA.. with the addition of Georgia St.. to being to establish a strong recruting base in the SoCon's home territory... ;)

[NYJMUSupporter]

Richmond is not in the CAA in all sports. Just football

[ChickenMan]

Richmond is not in the CAA in all sports. Just football

corrected.. Richmond left the CAA a couple of years ago for the A10

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

corrected.. Richmond left the CAA a couple of years ago for the A10


Ok so we'll add Richmond to the Yankee Confxlolx xlolx

Where the he!! is Citdog when you need himxlolx xlolx xlolx

[FCS Preview]

With the additons of ODU and now Georgia St.. the CAA.. if no changes are made.. will become a 14 member football league by 2010.


There will be 8 all-sports members:

Delaware
Georgia St
Hofstra
JMU
N'eastern
Old Dominion
Towson
William/Mary


there will be 6 football 'only' members:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Richmond
Villanova


I doubt that will happen.. 14 is just too many.. the only question is will all the football 'only' members eventually be jettisoned.. or just a few???

Assuming it stays at 14...who moves to the North? Towson? They'd be the most logical choice, I think.

[danefan]

So if I understand this correctly, the following conference should be eligible for an AQ right away right?:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Richmond
Villanova
Albany
Stony Brook

I know Richmond and 'Nova make no sense in the conference (georgraphically or in terms of rivalries (Nova won't go to a new conference without Delaware, etc...) But just to amuse me, wouldn't that qualify for an AQ (6 teams having been conference members for at least the prior two years)?

[ChickenMan]

How about this scenario for the 'football only' members of the CAA..


Richmond to the SoCon

Maine, UMass, UNH, URI to the 'America East'

Villanova drops football... again.... :p

[Touchdown Yosef]

How about this scenario for the 'football only' members of the CAA..


Richmond to the SoCon

Maine, UMass, UNH, URI to the 'America East'

Villanova drops football... again.... :p

I would take Richmond and JMU to the Socon and get rid of Samford

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

America East
Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Stony Brook??
Albany??
Central Connecticut??

Winner is pretty much guaranteed an at-large for the years before they qualify for an AQ, especially with playoff expansion.


Nobody is going to give up an AQ. Without seeing the OOC schedule I don't agree that there would be a guaranteed at-large berth for one of these teams.
Doubtful that UMass would ever go for this
Without UMass, UNH interest is minimal
Four teams as all sports members is not a solid foundation for a football league. Neither is five if you add CCSU.
Need nine teams to facilitate scheduling.
Direction from the CAA Brass is that nobody will be jettisoned
Why implode the CAA when GA State is making it pretty clear they want to move up?
Why implode the CAA when the football travel reality might push GA State into another conference affiliation?
Why implode the CAA until upward mobility at UMass, Delaware, JMU and ODU is determined?

[jmu_duke07]

I'd rather make a new conference with the best CAA and the best SoCon... that would be the powerhouse. I would also like a rival series with AppState. It appears that JMU and AppState fans like it when we play each other.

[danefan]

Why implode the CAA when GA State is making it pretty clear they want to move up?

Because it benefits Albany.



Why implode the CAA when the football travel reality might push GA State into another conference affiliation?

Because it benefits Albany.



Why implode the CAA until upward mobility at UMass, Delaware, JMU and ODU is determined?

Because it benefits Albany.

xnodx xnodx xthumbsupx xsmiley_wix

[ChickenMan]

I would take Richmond and JMU to the Socon and get rid of Samford

there's a better shot of ASU moving to the CAA rather than JMU to the SoCon

[jmu_duke07]

Nobody is going to give up an AQ. Without seeing the OOC schedule I don't agree that there would be a guaranteed at-large berth for one of these teams.
Doubtful that UMass would ever go for this
Without UMass, UNH interest is minimal
Four teams as all sports members is not a solid foundation for a football league. Neither is five if you add CCSU.
Need nine teams to facilitate scheduling.
Direction from the CAA Brass is that nobody will be jettisoned
Why implode the CAA when GA State is making it pretty clear they want to move up?
Why implode the CAA when the football travel reality might push GA State into another conference affiliation?
Why implode the CAA until upward mobility at UMass, Delaware, JMU and ODU is determined?


I feel there is a big disconnection with the CAA North and CAA South, but thats me. Obviously the CAA South is much more competitive than the North. So is the playing style and interests.

North = Big and Slow
South = Faster and Leaner (at least for JMU it is xsmiley_wix )

[andy7171]

there's a better shot of ASU moving to the CAA rather than JMU to the SoCon

If that's the case I fully support Towson moving to the North! :p

[Appaholic]

Well that's great, now the CAA can get 7 bids to the FCS.......

And get most of them sent home by App......xwhistlex

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

How about this scenario for the 'football only' members of the CAA..


Richmond to the SoCon

Maine, UMass, UNH, URI to the 'America East'

Villanova drops football... again.... :p

Well, there isn't an America East Football League nor have I seen any signs of one forming soon. The non-football members of the all sports conference outnumber the football playing members.

The CAA Football League is the evolution of the old Yankee Conference where Maine, UMass, UNH and URI were charter members. I don't think you jettison those types of members.

[Appaholic]

I would take Richmond and JMU to the Socon and get rid of Samford

That would be wonderful.....

[Hoyadestroya85]

I can't really see Villanova leaving just to join another football only NEC or AE conference.

If that happened we'd either go FBS or join the Patriot League

[jmu_duke07]

If that happened we'd either go FBS or join the Patriot League

So Villanova would go up significantly or down significantly?

[ChooChoo]

I don't know a thing about Georgia State. How does it compare to UGA and GSU academically? To GSU athletically?xconfusedx
All about GSU
http://www.gsu.edu/about.html
Our Mission Statement:
As the only urban research university in Georgia, Georgia State University offers educational opportunities for traditional and nontraditional students at both the graduate and undergraduate levels by blending the best of theoretical and applied inquiry, scholarly and professional pursuits, and scientific and artistic expression. As an urban research university with strong disciplinary-based departments and a wide array of problem-oriented interdisciplinary programs, the goal of the university is to develop, transmit, and utilize knowledge in order to provide access to quality education for diverse groups of students, to educate leaders for the State of Georgia and the nation, and to prepare citizens for lifelong learning in a global society.

It's also one of the most culturally and racially diverse student bodies in the nation, something I think will help the university (and recruiting) in the 21st century.

[Hoyadestroya85]

Yes.. Bob Mulcahy believed those were the only two options.. and i think we'd continue to play at a high level within the Patriot League.. Not to mention i think that attendance would go up and media coverage would increase playing against teams from the state like Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell.. not to mention playing against teams with similar academic pedigree and an already fierce rivalry in georgetown..
As for FBS i still hold out hope.. we have a tie in with a BCS conference and we worked out a preliminary deal years ago to play in Franklin Field..
It could happen.. as much as my father tells me it won't
But i hope to God that the CAA doesn't kick us out because its the most competitive football conference in FCS

[jmu_duke07]

All about GSU
http://www.gsu.edu/about.html
Our Mission Statement:
As the only urban research university in Georgia, Georgia State University offers educational opportunities for traditional and nontraditional students at both the graduate and undergraduate levels by blending the best of theoretical and applied inquiry, scholarly and professional pursuits, and scientific and artistic expression. As an urban research university with strong disciplinary-based departments and a wide array of problem-oriented interdisciplinary programs, the goal of the university is to develop, transmit, and utilize knowledge in order to provide access to quality education for diverse groups of students, to educate leaders for the State of Georgia and the nation, and to prepare citizens for lifelong learning in a global society.

It's also one of the most culturally and racially diverse student bodies in the nation, something I think will help the university (and recruiting) in the 21st century.


JMU is the most undiverse institution in the state of VA, and we are one of the top FCS programs in the country. But hey, at least you're being optimistic... xthumbsupx

It appears that GSU is the same as George Mason. Big commuter school that acts as a back up or for many NoVA (northern Virginia) kids who do not want to leave the area. How's the school spirit at GSU? There were slim to none at George Mason before they went to the final four.

FYI: Northern Virginia is a state of its own, just hasn't become official... refer below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Virginia
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2002/032002/03032002/536977/index_html
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=8511&paper=81&cat=104
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images251/i-270_md_st_05.jpg

[gophoenix]

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/cfb/entries/2008/04/17/how_georgia_sta.html

3. Make it your goal to eventually play in the Southern Conference: The Colonial Athletic Association is a fine league but college football is built around rivalries. All of Georgia State’s natural rivalries in I-AA football (Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Chattanooga, Furman) are in the Southern Conference. When Georgia State’s new president arrives (Dr. Carl Patton retires in June) later this year, he or she should start reaching out to the fellow presidents in the Southern Conference to determine what it is going to take to gain membership. Then do it. Whatever it takes. Whatever it costs.

you're not the only one who thinks they should join the southern Conference

You know, last year ESPN ran a piece that said the SoCon was going to expand with Samford, Georgia State and Coastal Carolina. So far, Samford is in.

Everyone laughed at ESPN because Georgia State didn't have football and didn't seem too serious about it. Now we have this. So, could this be the start of Georgia State and Coastal Carolina coming in and having the ESPN article be right?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Because it benefits Albany.


Because it benefits Albany.


Because it benefits Albany.

xnodx xnodx xthumbsupx xsmiley_wix

I appreciate your complete honesty!! And I will reply just as candidly. Not trying to hold Albany back, but none of the proposed alternatives benefit New Hampshire. xpeacex

[Jiggs]

I would take Richmond and JMU to the Socon and get rid of Samford


Why do you care? Isn't appy headed to the SEC or ACC?xlolx

[danefan]

I appreciate your complete honesty!! And I will reply just as candidly. Not trying to hold Albany back, but none of the proposed alternatives benefit New Hampshire. xpeacex

Not in the immediate future they don't. But hopefully the creation of a more "northeastern" FCS conference will possibly spur some new geographical rivalries that could have the making for a spur of great northeastern football. xthumbsupx

[Touchdown Yosef]

Why do you care? Isn't appy headed to the SEC or ACC?xlolx

Yea, tomorrow actually there is going to be a huge announcement. We are taking NC State's place in the ACC. Due to their dismal sports programs and the momentum and popularity that Appalachian State carries NC State is being booted to Conference USA and Appalachian will begin play in the ACC for the 2008 football season.

We aren't going anywhere. Some want to and some don't but the way things are structed and with the current circumstances we will be just fine to remain as proud members of FCS. So in the meantime we would love to include two proven top level programs that offer great natural rivalries in the Socon. They would also bring a signifigant new fan base and georgraphic region bolstered by two schools as oposed to the massive following that Samford brings.

Welcome to the Socon Samford, all in good fun.

[jstclmet]

Ever think of reallignment???
CAA North:
Maine
Massachusetss
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

CAA Mid Atlantic
Delaware
Hofstra
Towson
Villanova

CAA South:
Georgia State
James Madison
Old Dominion
Richmond
William & Mary

You play your division games, crossover games to total 8 within the conference, then 3 OOC games.

Each Division winner gets the AQ, and maybe as many 3 "At large" births, pending w/l records, etc.

Just my thoughts.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Ever think of reallignment???
CAA North:
Maine
Massachusetss
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

CAA Mid Atlantic
Delaware
Hofstra
Towson
Villanova

CAA South:
Georgia State
James Madison
Old Dominion
Richmond
William & Mary

You play your division games, crossover games to total 8 within the conference, then 3 OOC games.

Each Division winner gets the AQ, and maybe as many 3 "At large" births, pending w/l records, etc.

Just my thoughts.

So the CAA would get 3 AQ's??? That seems fair.

[MplsBison]

Just as long as the new Gateway and SoCon also get 3.

[ChickenMan]

Just as long as the new Gateway and SoCon also get 3.


just as soon as they get 14 teams... :p

[Touchdown Yosef]

1/8 as compared to 3/14

hmmmm

[MplsBison]

Yeah but each of those 3 AQs would go to a CAA team that only played 8 other CAA teams.


It's not like they have to play all 13 other teams.



So it's really 1/8 vs. 3/8.

[Jiggs]

Yea, tomorrow actually there is going to be a huge announcement. We are taking NC State's place in the ACC. Due to their dismal sports programs and the momentum and popularity that Appalachian State carries NC State is being booted to Conference USA and Appalachian will begin play in the ACC for the 2008 football season.

We aren't going anywhere. Some want to and some don't but the way things are structed and with the current circumstances we will be just fine to remain as proud members of FCS. So in the meantime we would love to include two proven top level programs that offer great natural rivalries in the Socon. They would also bring a signifigant new fan base and georgraphic region bolstered by two schools as oposed to the massive following that Samford brings.

Welcome to the Socon Samford, all in good fun.

We look forward to ASU's massive following visiting Seibert Stadium this fall.

[FCS Preview]

Ever think of reallignment???
CAA North:
Maine
Massachusetss
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

CAA Mid Atlantic
Delaware
Hofstra
Towson
Villanova

CAA South:
Georgia State
James Madison
Old Dominion
Richmond
William & Mary

You play your division games, crossover games to total 8 within the conference, then 3 OOC games.

Each Division winner gets the AQ, and maybe as many 3 "At large" births, pending w/l records, etc.

Just my thoughts.

None of those conferences has the required 6 teams to have an AQ from a conference...

[Touchdown Yosef]

We look forward to ASU's massive following visiting Seibert Stadium this fall.

Wish I could be one of them, but it won't be this year.

[jstclmet]

None of those conferences has the required 6 teams to have an AQ from a conference...

Ok, maybe 6 was a bit much, how bout 2 divisions North & South like we have presently, Hofstra & Nova go to the North. UD & TU stay in the South.

Both Div winners get the AQ (now we have 7 teams in ea div), and the 2 teams with the best W/L recs get two At larges (4 teams total from the toughest conference in all of FCS).

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Ok, maybe 6 was a bit much, how bout 2 divisions North & South like we have presently, Hofstra & Nova go to the North. UD & TU stay in the South.

Both Div winners get the AQ (now we have 7 teams in ea div), and the 2 teams with the best W/L recs get two At larges (4 teams total from the toughest conference in all of FCS).

Ok I'll say it so none of our UD pals have to....There is no way the CAA will split up UD and Nova

[danefan]

One conference will never get more then 1 AQ.

Goes against the point of the AQ which is to reward the winner of the conference, not the winner of a division within the conference.

[lizrdgizrd]

One conference will never get more then 1 AQ.

Goes against the point of the AQ which is to reward the winner of the conference, not the winner of a division within the conference.
Bingo.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Ok, maybe 6 was a bit much, how bout 2 divisions North & South like we have presently, Hofstra & Nova go to the North. UD & TU stay in the South.

Both Div winners get the AQ (now we have 7 teams in ea div), and the 2 teams with the best W/L recs get two At larges (4 teams total from the toughest conference in all of FCS).

The point was already made about the multipule AQ's so I'll skip that.

You can't guarentee any conference at large bids that takes out any purpose of a conference champ. You then take the top 4 teams each year and so you know once you are guarenteed to finish there you rest your players and you esentially have weeks 15-17 of the NFL. Needless to say its not even going to be considered.

Also your quote of "the toughest conference in all of FCS" is debatable and even if you could make the arguemnt that you were last year (I am not giving up this point just speculating) the strongest conferences will shift from time to time.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Ok, maybe 6 was a bit much, how bout 2 divisions North & South like we have presently, Hofstra & Nova go to the North. UD & TU stay in the South.

Both Div winners get the AQ (now we have 7 teams in ea div), and the 2 teams with the best W/L recs get two At larges (4 teams total from the toughest conference in all of FCS).

It sounds like you would rather just fully split the CAA up and have two completly seperate conferences.

[Dane96]

I cannot see the conference staying together...IMHO. I really think GSU leaves. But, you may also see Mason at some point. I actually think the CAA is made up of a lot of schools who want the best brand of football...but are dissimilar (is that even a word?) in geography, academics, and olympic sports.

The more gas rises...the more you will see regionalization. It is a MASSIVE expense, whether by bus or cars. Heck, airlines are not going to charge more for AISLE and WINDOW seats.

[PantherRob82]

So it's really 1/8 vs. 3/8.

No...it's 3 bids for 14 teams...

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Yes.. Bob Mulcahy believed those were the only two options.. and i think we'd continue to play at a high level within the Patriot League.. Not to mention i think that attendance would go up and media coverage would increase playing against teams from the state like Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell.. not to mention playing against teams with similar academic pedigree and an already fierce rivalry in georgetown..
As for FBS i still hold out hope.. we have a tie in with a BCS conference and we worked out a preliminary deal years ago to play in Franklin Field..
It could happen.. as much as my father tells me it won't
But i hope to God that the CAA doesn't kick us out because its the most competitive football conference in FCS

If you think you could maintain a high level of play while increasing revenue playing more like minded schools and more regional rivals, why wouldn't you go that route? I know if any of these America East alternatives provided the same benefits for UNH, I'd be on the bandwagon!

My guess is that as far as CAA games go, Villanova folks care most about Delaware, but it is more about hating to lose to THAT public school who invades the Main Line every other year. I'm guessing to a certain extent that Richmond and William & Mary generate some interest. After that I get the impression that most Nova folks could care less about the CAA schools. How much would interest, gate receipts and donations increase if Nova had a typical schedule of Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross, Fordham, Georgetown, Penn, Princeton, Delaware and a FBS (rotate with Army, BC and a Big East school or two??)/Richmond/W&M/Furman/Dayton? Aren't Colgate, Holy Cross and Fordham rivals from the major college days before Nova dropped football? Those were meant to be very serious questions. To me it seems like lower travel costs, greater revenue and more like minded institutions.

[MplsBison]

No...it's 3 bids for 14 teams...

But it's really 3/8.

[Jackman]

Clearly there is only one logical thing to do: add 2 to 4 more schools. Who's in?

[Hoyadestroya85]

If you think you could maintain a high level of play while increasing revenue playing more like minded schools and more regional rivals, why wouldn't you go that route? I know if any of these America East alternatives provided the same benefits for UNH, I'd be on the bandwagon!

My guess is that as far as CAA games go, Villanova folks care most about Delaware, but it is more about hating to lose to THAT public school who invades the Main Line every other year. I'm guessing to a certain extent that Richmond and William & Mary generate some interest. After that I get the impression that most Nova folks could care less about the CAA schools. How much would interest, gate receipts and donations increase if Nova had a typical schedule of Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross, Fordham, Georgetown, Penn, Princeton, Delaware and a FBS (rotate with Army, BC and a Big East school or two??)/Richmond/W&M/Furman/Dayton? Aren't Colgate, Holy Cross and Fordham rivals from the major college days before Nova dropped football? Those were meant to be very serious questions. To me it seems like lower travel costs, greater revenue and more like minded institutions.
it's more a matter of us being able to play at the highest level of FCS competition.. and the patriot league isn't that plus non scholly schools have to spend more on the recruiting aspect to find players who can pay their way and meet the criteria... I suggest picking up a copy of the Tony Moss book, it's not just for Villanova fans but FCS fans in general.. it's an excellent read

[Lehigh Football Nation]

it's more a matter of us being able to play at the highest level of FCS competition.. and the patriot league isn't that plus non scholly schools have to spend more on the recruiting aspect to find players who can pay their way and meet the criteria... I suggest picking up a copy of the Tony Moss book, it's not just for Villanova fans but FCS fans in general.. it's an excellent read

I agree Tony Moss' book is an excellent read, but the statements of the PL "not being the highest level of competition" and a "non-scholly" school are flat-out wrong. Last I checked, the PL qualifies for the same playoffs that the CAA, Gateway, and SoCon play in.

The PL plays under some different self-imposed rules than the rest of FCS concerning need-based aid (which may soon be out the window) and academic indexes (which would not affect Villanova much most likely). But let's not say here they don't play at the highest level.

The facts of this debate are as follows:
* The CAA is becoming way, way too big to be practical as a football conference. I mean, how many conference games will you play with this schedule? At a minimum you're not playing FOUR leaguemates. In a league with a championship game it's not as big a deal, but in a playoff scenario it's ludicrious. It's a problem the CAA currently faces, and will get even worse.
* Having said that, the AE still seems no closer to sponsoring football. UMass, UNH, and Maine won't jump unless they get an autobid. Albany and Stony Brook (and/or CCSU) will only jump if they get an autobid. And nobody seems to know what URI really wants. Add to this dithering by AE management, and it's hard to see this coming to pass.
* I'd love to see the remaining two schools, Richmond and Villanova, go to the league that would love them the most, the Patriot League - and the PL would have to give up "need"-based aid to do so. Evidently that's the strategy that the PL has going forward - hope the CAA breaks apart, and that Richmond and Villanova decide to give up their biggest rivalries to join their league. Chance of that happening? I'll leave it to you to decide...

[RadMann]

* I'd love to see the remaining two schools, Richmond and Villanova, go to the league that would love them the most, the Patriot League - and the PL would have to give up "need"-based aid to do so. Evidently that's the strategy that the PL has going forward - hope the CAA breaks apart, and that Richmond and Villanova decide to give up their biggest rivalries to join their league. Chance of that happening? I'll leave it to you to decide...
*

I don't see Villanova making any major decisions about a football conference based on where Delaware plays. For Delaware fans that game is a big rivalry, but I have always maintained that it is a big rivalry for Nova FOOTBALL fans only on their side, but not the larger Nova athletic fan base. I can't see the Nova admin making a major athletics conference decision based on UD. Heck, the two schools could play each year out of conference anyway.

[Hoyadestroya85]

I was simply saying that the CAA has the most talented t teams, it was not a knock on the PL, which is a brand of football that i quite enjoy..

[GannonFan]

The facts of this debate are as follows:
* The CAA is becoming way, way too big to be practical as a football conference. I mean, how many conference games will you play with this schedule? At a minimum you're not playing FOUR leaguemates. In a league with a championship game it's not as big a deal, but in a playoff scenario it's ludicrious. It's a problem the CAA currently faces, and will get even worse.
* Having said that, the AE still seems no closer to sponsoring football. UMass, UNH, and Maine won't jump unless they get an autobid. Albany and Stony Brook (and/or CCSU) will only jump if they get an autobid. And nobody seems to know what URI really wants. Add to this dithering by AE management, and it's hard to see this coming to pass.
* I'd love to see the remaining two schools, Richmond and Villanova, go to the league that would love them the most, the Patriot League - and the PL would have to give up "need"-based aid to do so. Evidently that's the strategy that the PL has going forward - hope the CAA breaks apart, and that Richmond and Villanova decide to give up their biggest rivalries to join their league. Chance of that happening? I'll leave it to you to decide...

I disagree with the size of the conference being an impediment. Actually, with a playoff system, it's actually easier. Who really cares which CAA team wins the autobid? There's never been a year since 1986 where the winner of the CAA (the Yankee, A10, what have you) wouldn't have made the playoff even without the autobid, so conference champion is a nice banner to have but it means nothing. The focus of I-AA/FCS football is the playoffs and you don't need to win the CAA to make the playoffs. Whether it's 8 teams or 12 or 14, if you're good enough, you'll get in. Heck, if the playoffs get expanded, expect the CAA to continue to get 4-5 teams in, and it could be even more depending on how much they expand the playoffs. Again, who wins the CAA is pretty much an irrelevant matter when it comes to the playoffs.

As for nova and Richmond, leaving the CAA to join the Patriot just doesn't seem likely. For Richmond, they almost tarred and feathered the previous President for even suggesting that Richmond may want to join the Patriot. How people go from rabid dissent to nodding acceptance in just a handful of years? That would be a study in sociological journals because it's just unreasonable. And as for nova, dropping football entirely might be more of an option than joining the Patriot. nova bleeds money as it is, and that's with a full crowd every other year with a 50% UD crowd going up to the Main Line. if nova leaves the conference, Delaware would never play nova at nova again - UD doesn't look for tons of away games now and being in a 12 team league would still leave plenty of schools not on the conference schedule to entice to come to Newark. Of course, maybe UD could give nova some charity to play all the games in Newark, but you have to question whether nova's pride could take that - heck, they'd be replacing West Chester on UD's schedule as the automatic home game and they'd certainly hear about that for quite some time.

[paward]

I disagree with the size of the conference being an impediment. Actually, with a playoff system, it's actually easier. Who really cares which CAA team wins the autobid? There's never been a year since 1986 where the winner of the CAA (the Yankee, A10, what have you) wouldn't have made the playoff even without the autobid, so conference champion is a nice banner to have but it means nothing. The focus of I-AA/FCS football is the playoffs and you don't need to win the CAA to make the playoffs. Whether it's 8 teams or 12 or 14, if you're good enough, you'll get in. Heck, if the playoffs get expanded, expect the CAA to continue to get 4-5 teams in, and it could be even more depending on how much they expand the playoffs. Again, who wins the CAA is pretty much an irrelevant matter when it comes to the playoffs.

As for nova and Richmond, leaving the CAA to join the Patriot just doesn't seem likely. For Richmond, they almost tarred and feathered the previous President for even suggesting that Richmond may want to join the Patriot. How people go from rabid dissent to nodding acceptance in just a handful of years? That would be a study in sociological journals because it's just unreasonable. And as for nova, dropping football entirely might be more of an option than joining the Patriot. nova bleeds money as it is, and that's with a full crowd every other year with a 50% UD crowd going up to the Main Line. if nova leaves the conference, Delaware would never play nova at nova again - UD doesn't look for tons of away games now and being in a 12 team league would still leave plenty of schools not on the conference schedule to entice to come to Newark. Of course, maybe UD could give nova some charity to play all the games in Newark, but you have to question whether nova's pride could take that - heck, they'd be replacing West Chester on UD's schedule as the automatic home game and they'd certainly hear about that for quite some time.


Former Ricmond President did get "Tarred" but not feathered for that thought alone.

[Cobblestone]

America East
Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Stony Brook??
Albany??
Central Connecticut??

Winner is pretty much guaranteed an at-large for the years before they qualify for an AQ, especially with playoff expansion.


I like it.

[dgreco]

I like it.

I agree, I also think if it happened they could find 2 more schools to pony up and get the league to the ideal 9.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I disagree with the size of the conference being an impediment. Actually, with a playoff system, it's actually easier. Who really cares which CAA team wins the autobid? There's never been a year since 1986 where the winner of the CAA (the Yankee, A10, what have you) wouldn't have made the playoff even without the autobid, so conference champion is a nice banner to have but it means nothing. The focus of I-AA/FCS football is the playoffs and you don't need to win the CAA to make the playoffs. Whether it's 8 teams or 12 or 14, if you're good enough, you'll get in. Heck, if the playoffs get expanded, expect the CAA to continue to get 4-5 teams in, and it could be even more depending on how much they expand the playoffs. Again, who wins the CAA is pretty much an irrelevant matter when it comes to the playoffs.


I agree with GF.

Has the Yankee/A10/CAA ever sent just one team to the playoffs when that AQ wasn't really the best team or fully deserving of a playoff bid? My memory is telling me that's never happened. Even in years when only two teams make the playoffs (like 2005 with UNH and Richmond), what real difference does it make which one is the AQ? That AQ has no bearing on any seeding that occurs. Both teams deserved to be in the playoffs. Look at 2004 when there was a three way tie for the best record in the A-10 (W&M, UD and JMU) and UNH also made the playoffs. W&M was seeded in the top four and UNH was by all reports the #5 team and ahead of UD and JMU in the playoff "seeding" -- people have already forgot about that #4 (GA Southern) -#5 matchup in the opening round.

Sure it would be nice to crown a champion, but to me the level of competition within the league and the scheduling advantages the large league provides is much more important than crowning a champion.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I agree, I also think if it happened they could find 2 more schools to pony up and get the league to the ideal 9.

Even if they got two more schools, wouldn't they be associate members? I sure don't think an AE Football League with only four members that are all sports members is a very good idea! Personally, I think at least seven of the football members need to be all sports members for the football league to have any stability. Where are the three candidates that meet the current AE mold of being medium sized, public, research institutions? xconfusedx Boston University is always saying they're going to leave AE and when they do then Hartford will be the only private institution left.

And short of some type of far fetched miracle bringing Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware and Towson back into the fold, I don't see any group of nine schools that provide the quality of schedule and level of competition that the CAA does for UNH (selfishly) nor for UMass, Maine or URI. That seems to be a huge issue for UNH and UMass, not sure about Maine and URI.

[Husky Alum]

This is all real nice talk, but there's going to be no movement into/out of the CAA until the Big East's non-football schools decide what they're going to do.

That's the first domino to fall - and once it does, we'll all have our "conference scenario" hats on.

Providence's struggle to find a basketball coach belies the problem that the non-football Big East schools (sans Georgetown) have.

[MplsBison]

When you say non football BE schools, are you including Gtown, Nova, and Notre Dame?


Or do you literally mean BE schools that don't have a football program?

[blur2005]

I'm a fan of having Richmond and the eight CAA-all sports teams reconstitute the CAA as a nine-team conference. The others five join in with some of the other northeastern schools to form either the American East conference or some football-only conference like the Great West. Not saying I don't like JMU playing UNH, UMass, etc., but for the sake of fixing something that will be really awkward (14-team football conference), that's what I'd go with.

[paward]

May be a couple years beyond 2010 before their official CAA entry:

http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=12700&KEY=&ATCLID=1441410&SPID=5671&SPSID=104979

[Jackman]

When you say non football BE schools, are you including Gtown, Nova, and Notre Dame?


Or do you literally mean BE schools that don't have a football program?

Without meaning to answer for Husky Alum, most people when talking about the Big East this way mean the 8 Big East Football members (Connecticut, Syracuse, Rutgers, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida) versus the 8 other/Catholic members:
Independent: Notre Dame
FCS Football: Villanova and Georgetown
No Football: Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, and Marquette

The Big East is intentionally 8 vs. 8 so that neither side has majority control of the board. It's another factor interfering with Villanova considering a FBS move, because the other Catholic schools would put pressure on them not to shift the balance of power.

It is believed that the Big East won't make any changes until its current television contracts expire in 2013. According to their press release, Georgia State starts football in 2010 but doesn't join the CAA until 2012. The moratorium on teams moving between FCS and FBS ends in August 2011, and then there's a transition period of 1 or 2 years (forget how long). So everything is converging on 2012-2013.

[AppMan]

We aren't going anywhere. Some want to and some don't but the way things are structed and with the current circumstances we will be just fine to remain as proud members of FCS.

That is a mighty bold statement. While it may hold true for the next several years, I wouldn't bet the farm on ASU staying put very long. A lot of dynamics at work behind the scenes. To go FBS three things need to be present. 1, Money. The Yosef Club will top the $2 million level this year (up from $750,00 three short years ago). 2. Support. You know what has happened with home & away attendance over the past three years and how rabid our fans have become. 3. Facilities. By the end of next year ASU will have some of, if not the best facilities of any school in the FCS. Not just the football stadium, total facilities for all sports. When all these things come together and you toss in the success ASU has enjoyed over the past three years, conferences begin seeking you out.

[AppMan]

We look forward to ASU's massive following visiting Seibert Stadium this fall.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it ain't gonna happen.

[AppMan]

Without meaning to answer for Husky Alum, most people when talking about the Big East this way mean the 8 Big East Football members (Connecticut, Syracuse, Rutgers, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida) versus the 8 other/Catholic members:
Independent: Notre Dame
FCS Football: Villanova and Georgetown
No Football: Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, and Marquette

The Big East is intentionally 8 vs. 8 so that neither side has majority control of the board. It's another factor interfering with Villanova considering a FBS move, because the other Catholic schools would put pressure on them not to shift the balance of power.

It is believed that the Big East won't make any changes until its current television contracts expire in 2013. According to their press release, Georgia State starts football in 2010 but doesn't join the CAA until 2012. The moratorium on teams moving between FCS and FBS ends in August 2011, and then there's a transition period of 1 or 2 years (forget how long). So everything is converging on 2012-2013.

The most simple answer would be for the NCAA to rescind the mandate which requires schools to play all sports in the same division. Perhaps then institutions could get back to playing football on a level, and with schools, they are comfortable with. Although the mandate targeted slowing down the proliferation of D-I basketball programs, it made a huge impact on the college football landscape. It left a hodge-podge of schools that have vastly different academic & athletic profiles being forced to compete on the same level. I simply do not see the problem with schools who are not financially able to offer the scholarships and funding to support a high level football program to be able to find their niche among like mnded schools. I'll use Davidson as an example. They dropped down to D-II football back in the late 70's and were quite comfortable there playing schools withing a four hour drive of campus. Now, in order to stay in D-I and play basketball in the Southern Conference, they have been forced into a football situation that takes them to California, Indiana, Iowa, Florida, Florida, Ohio, and Kentucky. The interseting thing is D-II was once a very stable division, but today is shrinking to an alarmingly low number. Many think the NCAA moratorium on movement between the divisions was intended to stop the exodus of FCS schools to the FBS, but in reality it was intended to stop D-II programs from moving to the FCS level of D-I. The more the NCAA tries to "fix" things the more they tend screw them up. Totally insane.

[YoUDeeMan]

If
My guess is that as far as CAA games go, Villanova folks care most about Delaware...

If football was eliminated entirely, many nova "folks" wouldn't notice. xwhistlex

[MplsBison]

I bet if they were in the Big East they would care more.

[DFW HOYA]

This is all real nice talk, but there's going to be no movement into/out of the CAA until the Big East's non-football schools decide what they're going to do.

Decide? They're staying put. Excepting ND, there aren't many places for them to go.

[Jackman]

The simplest answer would be for the NCAA to rescind the mandate which requires schools to play all sports in the same division. Perhaps then institutions could get back to playing football on a level, and with schools, they are comfortable with. Although the mandate targeted slowing down the proliferation of D-I basketball programs, it made a huge impact on the college football landscape. It left a hodge-podge of schools that have vastly different academic & athletic profiles being forced to compete on the same level. I simply do not see the problem with schools who are not financially able to offer the scholarships and funding to support a high level football program to be able to find their niche among like mnded schools. I'll use Davidson as an example. They dropped down to D-II football back in the late 70's and were quite comfortable there playing schools withing a four hour drive of campus. Now, in order to stay in D-I and play basketball in the Southern Conference, they have been forced into a football situation that takes them to California, Indiana, Iowa, Florida, Florida, Ohio, and Kentucky. The interseting thing is D-II was once a very stable division, but today is shrinking to an alarmingly low number. Many think the NCAA moratorium on movement between the divisions was intended to stop the exodus of FCS schools to the FBS, but in reality it was intended to stop D-II programs from moving to the FCS level of D-I. The more the NCAA tries to "fix" things the more they tend screw them up. Totally insane.

It's the Haves protecting the basketball tourney money from the Have Nots. There are rules that allow schools to play outside their division (UMass-Lowell, for example, is in Division II but plays Division I hockey), but they're written in such a way that they can't be used to play Division I basketball. The costs of football are completely out of proportion with anything else. One thing they could do is reduce the maximum and minimum number of football scholarships. 85 scholarships for a sport that only fields 11 players at a time is ridiculous, and it used to be 95. Division I Men's Soccer is limited to a maximum of 9 scholarships. They can't even put a full team on the field without a couple walk-ons. Every 2 scholarships you cut from football pays for a long distance away game (at private school tuition rates), because you can also cut 2 scholarships from women's sports. Does anyone doubt that the FCS's 63 scholarship cap is more than enough for a team? That's almost 3 deep at every position.

[MplsBison]

Decide? They're staying put. Excepting ND, there aren't many places for them to go.

He's talking post BE split, obviously.

[DFW HOYA]

He's talking post BE split, obviously.

The point remains--Villanova and Georgetown have larger and more diversified athletic programs that don't fit in the box of mid-major conferences, which is why eight Big East schools are a workable group all by themselves if the football schools want to be a latter day Conference USA-North.

[MplsBison]

Why wouldn't the football schools want to cut the dead weight? You know, the basketball schools who either can't afford a football team or who have one but can't afford to play FBS.

[DFW HOYA]

Why wouldn't the football schools want to cut the dead weight? You know, the basketball schools who either can't afford a football team or who have one but can't afford to play FBS.

That dead weight keeps winning Big East titles .... xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The point remains--Villanova and Georgetown have larger and more diversified athletic programs that don't fit in the box of mid-major conferences, which is why eight Big East schools are a workable group all by themselves if the football schools want to be a latter day Conference USA-North.

There *is* always the far-fetched possibility that they could join the PL in all sports... if nothing else, it is a "diversified" conference. Football-wise, they fit.

Bottom line, though, is that they'd need to be thrown out of the BE to have that happen... and that, Virginia, will never happen. The BE needs the names of BOTH programs, and they're (lately) national championship contenders year in and year out. And of course G'town and Villanova need the cash cow from being BE as well. You don't simply give up that dough without a fight.

A *possibility* is that Villanova and G'Town join the PL in *all-other* sports and have an Army/Navy exception for b-ball to stay in the BE. But that probably wouldn't happen.

[MplsBison]

How many BE football titles have Gtown and Nova won these past years?

[Hoyadestroya85]

How many BE football titles have Gtown and Nova won these past years?

I believe it's 3 consecutive Regular season titles between the two..

[DFW HOYA]

In 2006-07, there were 21 post-season titles in Big East play. The I-A schools won ten. The I-AA/CS and non-football schools won eleven.

That's the kind of parity that keeps leagues together among the college presidents.

[MplsBison]

In 2006-07, there were 21 post-season titles in Big East play. The I-A schools won ten. The I-AA/CS and non-football schools won eleven.

And who cares about anything other than football and men's bball?


School X: "but!!! we won the rifle and women's rowing titles!! that means the football schools have to profit share with us from their BCS bowl wins!!"

[Hoyadestroya85]

That's incredibly ignorant..

[MplsBison]

Maybe it is.


The fact is that the schools in the BE that play FBS football are going to leave the BE and start their own conference.



What do the bball schools care? They don't need them anyway, right?

[YoUDeeMan]

Division I Men's Soccer is limited to a maximum of 9 scholarships. They can't even put a full team on the field without a couple walk-ons.

Not entirely accurate. You do know that they can split scholarships, don't you?

[GannonFan]

Maybe it is.


The fact is that the schools in the BE that play FBS football are going to leave the BE and start their own conference.



What do the bball schools care? They don't need them anyway, right?

The real fact is though, that's just opinion. There's no real reason right now for the football schools to leave and form a Big East minus the basketball schools. The conference hasn't suffered from being a big conference in basketball and you could argue that it's actually improved the conference. And football-wise, the only thing they don't have is a conference championship game. However, that loss of revenue is also offset by the fact that not having another game makes someone from the Big East possibly more likely to make the BCS title game - if West Virginia had managed not to fall apart against Pitt, then WVU would've been in the title game instead of LSU probably.

[Dane96]

Normally agree with you Gannon Fan, but UCONN and Syracuse have BEEN VERY VOCAL about a split. UCONN from the football side, Syracuse from the hoop side. With the investment at all the football schools (heck, even Rutgers is looking to expand), I fully expect them to split after the contract is up.

Bottom line: The payout of March Madness that a non-football school earns for the Big East (even if it is multiple bids) is small compared to that of:

1. Big East Network or a MAJOR NATIONAL TV CONTRACT that does not have to be split among 16 schools and is football and hoop based.

2. A title game once they add a few schools...which looks likely to point to a few of: Memphis, UCF, FIU (don't laugh...huge Latin American market is waiting for them), FAU, E. Carolina, and others.

Money talks. TV and MARKETING $$$ are guaranteed; Making a title game is not. They are going to want the upfront guaranteed $$$.

[GannonFan]

Normally agree with you Gannon Fan, but UCONN and Syracuse have BEEN VERY VOCAL about a split. UCONN from the football side, Syracuse from the hoop side. With the investment at all the football schools (heck, even Rutgers is looking to expand), I fully expect them to split after the contract is up.

Bottom line: The payout of March Madness that a non-football school earns for the Big East (even if it is multiple bids) is small compared to that of:

1. Big East Network or a MAJOR NATIONAL TV CONTRACT that does not have to be split among 16 schools and is football and hoop based.

2. A title game once they add a few schools...which looks likely to point to a few of: Memphis, UCF, FIU (don't laugh...huge Latin American market is waiting for them), FAU, E. Carolina, and others.

Money talks. TV and MARKETING $$$ are guaranteed; Making a title game is not. They are going to want the upfront guaranteed $$$.

I just don't see it as a forgone conclusion. People said the conference was hurt because of its size and yet it continues to put in tons of teams every year on the basketball side. Losing Georgetown (a Syracuse rival), nova, Marquette, and Notre Dame (almost half of this year's entrants) would be a major blow to the basketball side of the coin, and only Memphis would be a positive add on the basketball side. If Syracuse is complaining, it's because there are too many good teams now and they want the competition to thin out.

As for the money, Big East football isn't exactly Big 10 or SEC when it comes to followings. There's a very good reason why Big East football has taken this long to gain any momentum - the followings are much less rabid than elsewhere where big conferences and title games have been huge bonanzas. Sure there's money there, but they do have some limitations. With Rutgers and UConn, they would have the NY market, and they would compete for the Florida market with S. Florida and the other teams they add (although would still be dwarfed by FSU and Florida and Miami) but most of the other schools are not from major markets. And the basketball side would suffer (that's where the Florida ones hurt the conference).

What's more likely, IMO, rather than the massive split, is more of a moderate one. You could see lesser weights like St. John's, Providence, and Seton Hall dropped, and enough schools to be added to get the football title game. Losing nova and Georgetown and Marquette and Notre Dame and even DePaul makes no sense if it can be avoided and obviously those schools would want to remain. Maybe not all of them stay, but a few of them certainly will, even if they don't have football.

[Hoyadestroya85]

I love how you do that passive aggressive non capitalization of Nova..
pretty creative haha

[Jackman]

What's more likely, IMO, rather than the massive split, is more of a moderate one. You could see lesser weights like St. John's, Providence, and Seton Hall dropped, and enough schools to be added to get the football title game. Losing nova and Georgetown and Marquette and Notre Dame and even DePaul makes no sense if it can be avoided and obviously those schools would want to remain. Maybe not all of them stay, but a few of them certainly will, even if they don't have football.

If they cut loose any "non-football" member, control of the Big East shifts to the football schools and they can change the conference how they like. So if Marquette voted to kick Seton Hall, there's no assurance Marquette won't be kicked next. On the other hand, if the non-footballs stick together, worst case scenario they get to keep the Big East name and automatic bid if the football members leave to form their own conference (which would not have an automatic bid at first and would have to negotiate with the other BCS conferences to keep the Big East's spot in the series).

My own prediction is that the Big East will remain in this stalemate until the next inevitable raid, most likely by the Big Ten. Then it becomes a fire drill.

[MplsBison]

If the football school split away, they will be able to get more football schools into the NCAA men's bball tournament.


Right now there is a cap on how many BE teams can be selected and the non football teams are taking up too many slots.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll bring this up again: there is NO WAY the Big East will let Villanova and Georgetown go. They are an integral part of the Big East Brand. Villanova, the small, private school that came from nowhere and won the 1985 NCAA Tourney, is a "Big 5" school and perennially is a good team. Georgetown, dominant in the 1980s, made a recent run to the Final Four and academically is the flagship of the conference.

Lose Georgetown and Villanova, and the Big East becomes a soulless entity, UConn and Syracuse's championship basketball teams nonwithstanding.

[Dane96]

Brands change...times change. There are so many financial dominos here.

[blur2005]

I'd be cool with going back to the old conference alignments of the pre-Miami, Virginia Tech, BC move to ACC that started this whole fine mess. BC fit the Big East better, Miami is, well, Miami, and despite seeing Tech more often in sports (my school's chief rival), I'd be alright with letting the Hokies go back to the Big East.

[catdaddy2402]

When a Big East split happens it will be initiated by the FBS football schools. The likely reason is going to be scheduling. With them being limited to eight football playing schools they have to schedule five OOC games in a time where scheduling four is hard enough.

When the split happens you can rest assured that shortly after they announce they formed a new conference the BCS gives them the BCS autobid.

[ur2k]

If the football school split away, they will be able to get more football schools into the NCAA men's bball tournament.


Right now there is a cap on how many BE teams can be selected and the non football teams are taking up too many slots.

There is no NCAA Tourney cap for the Big East.

Richmond's football future home is tied into Bill and Mary. No way you break up the "Oldest Rivalry in the South".

[andy7171]

I'd be cool with going back to the old conference alignments of the pre-Miami, Virginia Tech, BC move to ACC that started this whole fine mess. BC fit the Big East better, Miami is, well, Miami, and despite seeing Tech more often in sports (my school's chief rival), I'd be alright with letting the Hokies go back to the Big East.

I agree with you the BC should have stayed in the BE. I know why the ACC wanted the Boston market, but I thought WVU would have been a much better fit into the ACC than BC.

[catdaddy2402]

I agree with you the BC should have stayed in the BE. I know why the ACC wanted the Boston market, but I thought WVU would have been a much better fit into the ACC than BC.
WVU wasn't considered by the ACC for many reasons, the biggest being academics.

Had the situation worked out like the ACC wanted BC wouldn't be a geographic oddity because they would have been paired with Syracuse. Virginia Tech got the Virginia Legislature and Governor to blackmail UVA, forcing the ACC to take Va Tech.

[MplsBison]

Had the situation worked out like the ACC wanted BC wouldn't be a geographic oddity because they would have been paired with Syracuse. Virginia Tech got the Virginia Legislature and Governor to blackmail UVA, forcing the ACC to take Va Tech.

I've heard that as well.


Thing is now, it seems, that the BE is actually the better football conference with the exception of Syracuse.


Imagine if Cuse went to the ACC and VT stayed in the BE!

[MplsBison]

There is no NCAA Tourney cap for the Big East.




Not officially. Of course not.


Just as a matter of practicality they won't put more than 8 or 9 teams from one conference in the tournament, even if that conference has 40 teams.

[andy7171]

WVU wasn't considered by the ACC for many reasons, the biggest being academics.

Had the situation worked out like the ACC wanted BC wouldn't be a geographic oddity because they would have been paired with Syracuse. Virginia Tech got the Virginia Legislature and Governor to blackmail UVA, forcing the ACC to take Va Tech.

Well, all I know is what I hear up here. And WVu was used as a prospect here in the news while the whole BC and VT negotiations were going on.

[catdaddy2402]

Well, all I know is what I hear up here. And WVu was used as a prospect here in the news while the whole BC and VT negotiations were going on.
Being a fan of an ACC school and being in ACC country I can assure you that WVU was never a candidate for ACC expansion. I highly doubt that their name ever came up even in preliminary discussions. Duke, Wake, UNC, and UVA turn their noses up at FSU and Clemson's academics and both of those schools are worlds better than West Virginia.

[andy7171]

Being a fan of an ACC school and being in ACC country I can assure you that WVU was never a candidate for ACC expansion. I highly doubt that their name ever came up even in preliminary discussions. Duke, Wake, UNC, and UVA turn their noses up at FSU and Clemson's academics and both of those schools are worlds better than West Virginia.

Dude, I'm not argueing here, but they did talk about WVU here in Maryland during this time. My parents and their friends all beliong to the Terrapin Club and have season tickets to the football and basketball games. So outside of the Carolina schools, who turn their nose up at anything outside of Carolina, WVU was looked at as a better fit than BC.

[catdaddy2402]

Dude, I'm not argueing here, but they did talk about WVU here in Maryland during this time. My parents and their friends all beliong to the Terrapin Club and have season tickets to the football and basketball games. So outside of the Carolina schools, who turn their nose up at anything outside of Carolina, WVU was looked at as a better fit than BC.
I highly doubt that Maryland's Administration and Athletics Dept was supporting WVU, mainly because they knew that there was a better chance of Tulane getting the nod over West Virginia.
Maybe by Maryland fans and area sportswriters were supporting it because of the rivalry they have had playing every year since 1976, but no other ACC school at the time had a long relationship with WVU besides Virginia, and Virginia hadn't scheduled a game with WVU since 1985. Clemson, North Carolina, Florida State, and Georgia Tech had never scheduled football games against West Virginia, only facing them in bowls. The only ACC school at the time of expansion that had scheduled a game against WVU since 1985 was Maryland.

[RAMS83]

"Fordham would like to go scholarship now" ---from the Head Coaches Mouth April 2008.

Although its the need based formula for players - football (all in) at FU costs 4 Million a year. Since spending that type of money why not play in a higher brand of football (better league -also better chance at 1aa championship) where also we can schedule one 1A team each year. ie CAA.
The one thing Fordham does like is affiliation with other academic minded schools. If the Patriot League doesnt go scholly in 1-3 yrs theres a good possibilty they will change ftbl conferences. The one way for FU to move is if it can get in with Richmond, Villanova and to a lesser degree UMass URI, Hofstra (some bball rivalry with these schools) --

bottom line - i hope PL goes scholly soon. if not i hope Fordham leaves the conference. unfornately the NEC will pass the PL soon in talent level if the PL drags its feet.

[jessesd]

I've heard that as well.


Thing is now, it seems, that the BE is actually the better football conference with the exception of Syracuse.


Imagine if Cuse went to the ACC and VT stayed in the BE!


As much at the CUSE sucks in football, they are lobbying hard to split the conference (because of the disparity with the other BBall schools) and the rumor around this parts is that the BEast Conf announemt of the split will happen sometimes after the 2011 FB season is over, otherwise your guesses are as good as mine.

When that happens-because it will.... It would create another domino effect that may???? affect some of the FCS conferences, but Its too early to tell... the only info avail are only rumors and Tranghese (the commish) is tight lip about all of these rumors.... One thing is for almost for sure ND football will not be on the BEast if the split happens!!!

[jmu_duke07]

I highly doubt that Maryland's Administration and Athletics Dept was supporting WVU, mainly because they knew that there was a better chance of Tulane getting the nod over West Virginia.
Maybe by Maryland fans and area sportswriters were supporting it because of the rivalry they have had playing every year since 1976, but no other ACC school at the time had a long relationship with WVU besides Virginia, and Virginia hadn't scheduled a game with WVU since 1985. Clemson, North Carolina, Florida State, and Georgia Tech had never scheduled football games against West Virginia, only facing them in bowls. The only ACC school at the time of expansion that had scheduled a game against WVU since 1985 was Maryland.

You're wrong about that, UVA has little to no ties with WVU. VaTech, however, has a fairly big rivalry with WVU because of their time together in the Big East. Being originally from Va, I see WVU as a better contender in the ACC than BC. I also think WVU would be a better fit than South Carolina. Trust me, South Carolina is more SEC country than ACC. North Carolina, however, is def ACC country.

[Go...gate]

I cannot see the conference staying together...IMHO. I really think GSU leaves. But, you may also see Mason at some point. I actually think the CAA is made up of a lot of schools who want the best brand of football...but are dissimilar (is that even a word?) in geography, academics, and olympic sports.

The more gas rises...the more you will see regionalization. It is a MASSIVE expense, whether by bus or cars. Heck, airlines are not going to charge more for AISLE and WINDOW seats.

Bingo. Travel costs are the 80,000 lb gorilla in the room and College AD's are going to have a much harder time meeting budgets.

[Go...gate]

I've heard that as well.


Thing is now, it seems, that the BE is actually the better football conference with the exception of Syracuse.


Imagine if Cuse went to the ACC and VT stayed in the BE!

SU will be back. They have recovered from down times like this before.

[jessesd]

SU will be back. They have recovered from down times like this before.


The coach Greg Robinson still has two years left in his contract and will continue stinking up the place for at least next season assuming he gets fired next year (he somehow survived last season because of the $5mil buyout); After he is gone the new coach arrives and to clean the place it would take at least two more years to go over the .500 level/competitive....


Let’s just say SU will stink for another 3 years more less!!...
I have no doubt that SU now is playing at a mid level CAA strength and Hofstra could give them a good run for their money and may be able to pull a W on them, now if you paired SU with App State or any of the top 10 BCS teams it would be a horrible lopsided humiliation and defeat for SU.

[Uncle Buck]

I love your faith in Hofstra, but until we iron out some things, i'm not sure we could take them. Though, I do think that we would have a better chance against them than UConn.

[andy7171]

I love your faith in Hofstra, but until we iron out some things, i'm not sure we could take them. Though, I do think that we would have a better chance against them than UConn.

You guys are playing UConn this year? Is this the first FBS game for you guys up there? xthumbsupx

This is Towsons first year with a FBS team, Navy. Really looking forward to going to that one!

[Uncle Buck]

You guys are playing UConn this year? Is this the first FBS game for you guys up there? xthumbsupx

This is Towsons first year with a FBS team, Navy. Really looking forward to going to that one!

This will be our first game with UConn since they moved up to 1A. I believe we played them the year before they moved but not since then. As for FBS we've only played Marshall and Buffalo when they first moved up to 1A in 1999.

[MplsBison]

coach Greg Robinson still has two years left in his contract and will continue stinking up the place

I was just going to say something about Robinson.



To top it all off, he hired Browning for his OC this season. Browning was the OC at Minnesota back when they had Barber, Maroney, Eslinger and Setterstrom.



Sure, if you have two NFL horses in the backfield and a great OL, then Browning's 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense can work.



But with Syracuse's personnel, this season could get ugly fast.

[andy7171]

This will be our first game with UConn since they moved up to 1A. I believe we played them the year before they moved but not since then. As for FBS we've only played Marshall and Buffalo when they first moved up to 1A in 1999.

We played UConn a year or two before they moved up as well. Ya cant count Buffalo, we played them a year after them moving up to I-AA. We got more of a fight out of our scrimmage with Salisbury State(D.III) than Buffalo. Nice stadium they had though.

[Uncle Buck]

We played UConn a year or two before they moved up as well. Ya cant count Buffalo, we played them a year after them moving up to I-AA. We got more of a fight out of our scrimmage with Salisbury State(D.III) than Buffalo. Nice stadium they had though.

No, but technically UB was still 1A at the time and since my closest buddy is an alum, i count that as our first 1A. xnodx

[catdaddy2402]

You're wrong about that, UVA has little to no ties with WVU. VaTech, however, has a fairly big rivalry with WVU because of their time together in the Big East. Being originally from Va, I see WVU as a better contender in the ACC than BC. I also think WVU would be a better fit than South Carolina. Trust me, South Carolina is more SEC country than ACC. North Carolina, however, is def ACC country.

Other than Maryland and Virginia no ACC school prior to expansion had played WVU more than a time or two, with the majority of the games being bowls. As I mentioned, UVA hadn't played WVU since 1985...but there is a 2 game, non-bowl series between the two schools.

South Carolina is only 1/2 SEC country, and has only been that way since the early 90's. South Carolina was a founding member of the ACC back in 1953, but left in the early 70's to become the next great Independent football and basketball power. As you can tell things didn't work out as they planned.

[jmu_duke07]

Other than Maryland and Virginia no ACC school prior to expansion had played WVU more than a time or two, with the majority of the games being bowls. As I mentioned, UVA hadn't played WVU since 1985...but there is a 2 game, non-bowl series between the two schools.

South Carolina is only 1/2 SEC country, and has only been that way since the early 90's. South Carolina was a founding member of the ACC back in 1953, but left in the early 70's to become the next great Independent football and basketball power. As you can tell things didn't work out as they planned.

They left the ACC because they could not contend with ACC Basketball... VaTech was supposed to be in the ACC long ago, however, there were discrepencies with them and some other ACC school... I wanna say Clemson but I'm not sure. Anyway, I think VaTech fits best in the ACC than any other conference, and this is coming from a UVA Fan. I'd also like WVU to be in the ACC other than Boston College, however... West Virginia is not on the Atlantic Coast

[SoCon48]

They left the ACC because they could not contend with ACC Basketball... VaTech was supposed to be in the ACC long ago, however, there were discrepencies with them and some other ACC school... I wanna say Clemson but I'm not sure. Anyway, I think VaTech fits best in the ACC than any other conference, and this is coming from a UVA Fan. I'd also like WVU to be in the ACC other than Boston College, however... West Virginia is not on the Atlantic Coast

Actually, South Carolina competed just fine at the time in basketball. Of course only 1 or 2 max was able to go to the NCAA play-offs per year.
Frank McGuire had won the only championship that UNC had had while he was at UNC before taking over the USC program.

In fact the Gamecocks were regular season champions in 1970 won the ACC Tournament just before leaving in 1971. Finished no lower than third the last 5 years they were in the conference. Mostly 1st or 2nd. Also had the ACC player of the year in 1969 and '70, John Roche. MCGuire was also Coach of the year in 1971.

[B]They left mostly because of the 850 rule. South Carolina had recruited a star player, Mike Grosso who was not eligible because he didn't make the ACC's 850 minimum. Went independent. Just as soon as they did, the rule was struck down and opened most every team to some under 850's.
.

[blur2005]

Actually, South Carolina competed just fine at the time in basketball. Of course only 1 or 2 max was able to go to the NCAA play-offs per year.
Frank McGuire had won the only championship that UNC had had while he was at UNC before taking over the USC program.

In fact the Gamecocks were regular season champions in 1970 won the ACC Tournament just before leaving in 1971. Finished no lower than third the last 5 years they were in the conference. Mostly 1st or 2nd. Also had the ACC player of the year in 1969 and '70, John Roche. MCGuire was also Coach of the year in 1971.

[B]They left mostly because of the 850 rule. South Carolina had recruited a star player, Mike Grosso who was not eligible because he didn't make the ACC's 850 minimum. Went independent. Just as soon as they did, the rule was struck down and opened most every team to some under 850's.
.
I've always thought one reason South Carolina left was because of the North Carolina-centrism of the ACC.


Dude, I'm not argueing here, but they did talk about WVU here in Maryland during this time. My parents and their friends all beliong to the Terrapin Club and have season tickets to the football and basketball games. So outside of the Carolina schools, who turn their nose up at anything outside of Carolina, WVU was looked at as a better fit than BC.
I can feel pretty certain there was as a good a chance as an ice cube surviving in hell of West Virginia coming to the ACC. Academically, there was just no way, whatsoever.


Had the situation worked out like the ACC wanted BC wouldn't be a geographic oddity because they would have been paired with Syracuse. Virginia Tech got the Virginia Legislature and Governor to blackmail UVA, forcing the ACC to take Va Tech.
I don't know if UVA was blackmailed--if anything, I think most Cavalier fans liked the idea of Tech joining the ACC ahead of Syracuse. I know I did. If the conference was going to have to expand (I was against that in general), then I wanted the Hokies.

[SoCon48]

I've always thought one reason South Carolina left was because of the North Carolina-centrism of the ACC

Certainly had a lot to do with it as Dean Smith knew there was a good chance that if the Grosso situation had been rectified that MacGuire would kick his butt...again.

I can feel pretty certain there was as a good a chance as an ice cube surviving in hell of West Virginia coming to the ACC. Academically, there was just no way, whatsoever.

Which is kinda funny since the ACC already has Clempsun.