Southern Pigskin's All "last 10 years" team from the SoCon

[blueballs]

http://southernpigskin.com/page.cfm?story=11687&cat=exclusives

Not a bad list... The only real disagreements I would have are Armanti Edwards (or even Greg Hill to a lesser extent) at QB over Richie Williams and Jayson Foster at All Purpose over Troy Albea. How anybody can leave Edwards (QB 2 NC, MVP of playoffs) and Foster (Payton Award, Fr of year) off any list like this is mind boggling.

To a lesser extent cases could be made for William Freeman (LB), Gerald Sensabaugh (DB), David Young (DB), Charles Clarke (OL), Jermaine Austin (over 5400 career rushing) (FB), Travis Stephens (LB), Matt Isenhour (OL), Katon Bethay (DL), Bear Rinehart (WR), Trent Sansbury (TE), Marques Murrell (DL), Jason Hunter (DL) just to name a few and there are many more.

[OL FU]

http://southernpigskin.com/page.cfm?story=11687&cat=exclusives

Not a bad list... The only real disagreements I would have are Armanti Edwards (or even Greg Hill to a lesser extent) at QB over Richie Williams and Jayson Foster at All Purpose over Troy Albea. How anybody can leave Edwards (QB 2 NC, MVP of playoffs) and Foster (Payton Award, Fr of year) off any list like this is mind boggling.

To a lesser extent cases could be made for William Freeman (LB), Gerald Sensabaugh (DB), David Young (DB), Charles Clarke (OL), Jermaine Austin (over 5400 career rushing) (FB), Travis Stephens (LB), Matt Isenhour (OL), Katon Bethay (DL), Bear Rinehart (WR), Trent Sansbury (TE), Marques Murrell (DL), Jason Hunter (DL) just to name a few and there are many more.


I agree on Edwards. Is anybody on the list still playing? Maybe that was one of the factors.

[BeauFoster]

I agree on Edwards. Is anybody on the list still playing? Maybe that was one of the factors.


It seems like I have seen this list before. Are we sure that it was composed on or around the date it was posted?

[Touchdown Yosef]

I agree on Edwards. Is anybody on the list still playing? Maybe that was one of the factors.

I don't know at this point while I am obviously a big fan of Edwards I think Richie is the right choice. Now after 2 more years will I still be saying that? Maybe maybe not. But as for now I would still take Richie, 28 staright completions NCAA record and over 400 passing yards and 500 all purpose yards in a handful of games. Watching that kid limp down the field in the NC still holds a special place in my heart and he was an amazing qarterback. His career numbers probably would have been much better if he benefitted from playing in the spread offense all four years.

In my circle of friends Richie is simply referred to as "The Hero" and it is univesally understood why.

[AppAlum2003]

I don't know at this point while I am obviously a big fan of Edwards I think Richie is the right choice. Now after 2 more years will I still be saying that? Maybe maybe not. But as for now I would still take Richie, 28 staright completions NCAA record and over 400 passing yards and 500 all purpose yards in a handful of games. Watching that kid limp down the field in the NC still holds a special place in my heart and he was an amazing qarterback. His career numbers probably would have been much better if he benefitted from playing in the spread offense all four years.

In my circle of friends Richie is simply referred to as "The Hero" and it is univesally understood why.

At the '06 National Championship, I had a chance to talk to Richie for a few minutes. I told him that I had been following his career in the CFL. The look of shock on his face said it all. I don't even think he understands how much we appreciate what he did while leading our Mountaineers. I agree with you. Armanti is fantastic and we're so lucky that we get to see him for 2 more years. However, Richie Williams is still my quarterback on this list.

[SideLine Shooter]

At the '06 National Championship, I had a chance to talk to Richie for a few minutes. I told him that I had been following his career in the CFL. The look of shock on his face said it all. I don't even think he understands how much we appreciate what he did while leading our Mountaineers. I agree with you. Armanti is fantastic and we're so lucky that we get to see him for 2 more years. However, Richie Williams is still my quarterback on this list.

I agree with you all the way. I did say after the '06 season in a few years we may be saying "Richie who?" After the past 3 seasons and talking with Richie several times we will still be talking about Richie for a long, long time. Richie put App on the map, radar, or what ever you want to call it. Richie set the standard for ASU Football. He was THE ultimate competitor. To watch Richie on the field was magic. He was the ultimate field leader.

My sons use to say that Ingle Martin was faster than Richie. I always said maybe so but Richie couldn't run in a straight line, either.

Richie still returns for App games whenever possible and it is great to see the appreciation the fans show toward Richie.

Armanti will set a lot of records and may well be the greatest QB in App or FCS history, I mean look what the young man has already done in 2 years with 2 to go.

I'm just glad I have had the opportunity to see these two magicians work their magic for ASU.xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[AppAlum2003]

I agree with you all the way. I did say after the '06 season in a few years we may be saying "Richie who?" After the past 3 seasons and talking with Richie several times we will still be talking about Richie for a long, long time. Richie put App on the map, radar, or what ever you want to call it. Richie set the standard for ASU Football. He was THE ultimate competitor. To watch Richie on the field was magic. He was the ultimate field leader.

My sons use to say that Ingle Martin was faster than Richie. I always said maybe so but Richie couldn't run in a straight line, either.

Richie still returns for App games whenever possible and it is great to see the appreciation the fans show toward Richie.

Armanti will set a lot of records and may well be the greatest QB in App or FCS history, I mean look what the young man has already done in 2 years with 2 to go.

I'm just glad I have had the opportunity to see these two magicians work their magic for ASU.xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

And I'm just glad that Armanti understands that he has more than 2 fingers on his hand! :D

[OL FU]

I don't know at this point while I am obviously a big fan of Edwards I think Richie is the right choice. Now after 2 more years will I still be saying that? Maybe maybe not. But as for now I would still take Richie, 28 staright completions NCAA record and over 400 passing yards and 500 all purpose yards in a handful of games. Watching that kid limp down the field in the NC still holds a special place in my heart and he was an amazing qarterback. His career numbers probably would have been much better if he benefitted from playing in the spread offense all four years.

In my circle of friends Richie is simply referred to as "The Hero" and it is univesally understood why.

The other thing that works in Williams favor is that he (considering the entire team) probably had a little less to work with. That is not a knock on the team at all. But looking back on the championships '05 was much more in doubt than '06. As a Furman fan, my favorite moment was watching him hobble on to the field in the second half of the NC game leading his team more from a motivational leadership standpoint than anything he could do athletically. It was quite emotional.

[Touchdown Yosef]

The other thing that works in Williams favor is that he (considering the entire team) probably had a little less to work with. That is not a knock on the team at all. But looking back on the championships '05 was much more in doubt than '06. As a Furman fan, my favorite moment was watching him hobble on to the field in the second half of the NC game leading his team more from a motivational leadership standpoint than anything he could do athletically. It was quite emotional.

No knock taken. He was the ultimate leader and it showed in the NC game.

[PaladinFan]

I agree with you all the way. I did say after the '06 season in a few years we may be saying "Richie who?" After the past 3 seasons and talking with Richie several times we will still be talking about Richie for a long, long time. Richie put App on the map, radar, or what ever you want to call it. Richie set the standard for ASU Football. He was THE ultimate competitor. To watch Richie on the field was magic. He was the ultimate field leader.

My sons use to say that Ingle Martin was faster than Richie. I always said maybe so but Richie couldn't run in a straight line, either.

Richie still returns for App games whenever possible and it is great to see the appreciation the fans show toward Richie.

Armanti will set a lot of records and may well be the greatest QB in App or FCS history, I mean look what the young man has already done in 2 years with 2 to go.

I'm just glad I have had the opportunity to see these two magicians work their magic for ASU.xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx


In straight line speed, Ingle Martin was a good deal faster than Williams. If you take the numbers that came out of their pro-days, I think Martin was in the 4.5 range while Williams was in the 4.9 range. But again, you didn't really worry about Williams going 60+ yards on a TD run (Martin would), you were more worried about him spinning off two tackles for a three and a half yard gain on a 3rd and 3.

I think the list is pretty fair. The hardest part is probably whittling down the linebacker list to 4 guys. You could probably pick the next four who didn't make it and have a pretty awesome group.

GSU does get a little shafted because their personell for so long didn't fit particular categories. I think there will always be the Ivory/Peterson argument. It might be a long time before we see two ball carriers going tete a tete like that again.

[SideLine Shooter]

In straight line speed, Ingle Martin was a good deal faster than Williams. If you take the numbers that came out of their pro-days, I think Martin was in the 4.5 range while Williams was in the 4.9 range. But again, you didn't really worry about Williams going 60+ yards on a TD run (Martin would), you were more worried about him spinning off two tackles for a three and a half yard gain on a 3rd and 3.

I think the list is pretty fair. The hardest part is probably whittling down the linebacker list to 4 guys. You could probably pick the next four who didn't make it and have a pretty awesome group.

GSU does get a little shafted because their personell for so long didn't fit particular categories. I think there will always be the Ivory/Peterson argument. It might be a long time before we see two ball carriers going tete a tete like that again.

Is that not what I said?xeyebrowx

[SideLine Shooter]

And I'm just glad that Armanti understands that he has more than 2 fingers on his hand! :D

EXCELLENT POINT!!!!xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xthumbsupx

[SideLine Shooter]

The other thing that works in Williams favor is that he (considering the entire team) probably had a little less to work with. That is not a knock on the team at all. But looking back on the championships '05 was much more in doubt than '06. As a Furman fan, my favorite moment was watching him hobble on to the field in the second half of the NC game leading his team more from a motivational leadership standpoint than anything he could do athletically. It was quite emotional.

When they put Richie in on the last series before halftime you could feel the emotional lift for the team and the fans.

It was a boost we all needed at the break.xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[DLS]

The other thing that works in Williams favor is that he (considering the entire team) probably had a little less to work with. That is not a knock on the team at all. But looking back on the championships '05 was much more in doubt than '06. As a Furman fan, my favorite moment was watching him hobble on to the field in the second half of the NC game leading his team more from a motivational leadership standpoint than anything he could do athletically. It was quite emotional.

easily one of the greatest moments ive witnessed at a football game. i can still hear the "rich-ie-will-iams" chant that started as he was getting ready to come on, in my head.

[SideLine Shooter]

easily one of the greatest moments ive witnessed at a football game. i can still hear the "rich-ie-will-iams" chant that started as he was getting ready to come on, in my head.

What a GREAT night!!!!!xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[Jerbearasu]

The only one I disagree with is Jason Hunter. I would have Marques Murrell on here over Jason every single time. Jason had one good season with us (and one amazing playoff run) but Marques was doing that before and after Jason's 05 season. I think I may even have Ryan Watson on here over Hunter. Ryan had a beast of a year back in 01 and missed out on defensive POY to Freddy by just one point (granted that was Ryan's only dominant year).

[blueballs]

I'm kinda' surprised that the concensus among the ASU folks is that Williams should be ahead of Edwards on this list.

So the next obvious question is this, how do you justify putting Williams ahead of Greg Hill, who rushed for over 4000 and threw for over 3000 and accounted for over 100 TD's while winning SOCON POTY in 1999 (yes, the same yr Peterson won the Payton- Hill had that good a year), leading GSU to two NC games, the 1999 NC, 3 conference titles, and a 37-6 record as a starter?

[Saint3333]

I'm kinda' surprised that the concensus among the ASU folks is that Williams should be ahead of Edwards on this list.

So the next obvious question is this, how do you justify putting Williams ahead of Greg Hill, who rushed for over 4000 and threw for over 3000 and accounted for over 100 TD's while winning SOCON POTY in 1999 (yes, the same yr Peterson won the Payton- Hill had that good a year), leading GSU to two NC games, the 1999 NC, 3 conference titles, and a 37-6 record as a starter?

I believe AE will break all of Richie's record if he stays healthy and will be the choice after the 2009 season.

But Richie did have excellent numbers: 7,700 yards passing (5,900 in two seasons including 4 400 yard games) and 59 TDs, and nearly 1,500 yards rushing (900 in one season) and 22 TDs. Passing stats also include a 62% completion %, 40 completions in one game, and 28 consecutive completions (a NCAA record). Hill was a great one, but it's not hard to see why Richie got the honor.

[AshevilleApp2]

The other thing that works in Williams favor is that he (considering the entire team) probably had a little less to work with. That is not a knock on the team at all. But looking back on the championships '05 was much more in doubt than '06. As a Furman fan, my favorite moment was watching him hobble on to the field in the second half of the NC game leading his team more from a motivational leadership standpoint than anything he could do athletically. It was quite emotional.

Richie had less to work with in 2003 and 2004, no question about it. I'm probably in the minority but I think that the 2005 team was stronger, factoring in both sides of the ball, than the next two. This is of course prior to Richie getting hurt in the semifinal. The ASU squad I saw against a very good Southern Illinois team in the quarterfinals was absolutely dominant. After Richie's injury our defense really carried us to the championship. Just an opinion though.

[AshevilleApp2]

When they put Richie in on the last series before halftime you could feel the emotional lift for the team and the fans.

It was a boost we all needed at the break.xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

I re-watched the DVD of the Northern Iowa game last Sunday. It gave me goosebumps. I'm ready for another season.

[T-Dog]

The students who have only been at App for two years think I'm crazy when I say as of right now I think Richie has the bigger legacy at App than Armanti. Then I tell them about the Furman game in 2004 and the title run in 2005 and their jaws drop.

However, two more years for Armanti, so you never know.

The App fan in me wanted Richardson in there at RB, but I can't deny Peterson's place. He was something else.

[eaglewraith]

The students who have only been at App for two years think I'm crazy when I say as of right now I think Richie has the bigger legacy at App than Armanti. Then I tell them about the Furman game in 2004 and the title run in 2005 and their jaws drop.

However, two more years for Armanti, so you never know.

The App fan in me wanted Richardson in there at RB, but I can't deny Peterson's place. He was something else.

Make sure you tell them about the little game the next week as well ;)

[eaglewraith]

Jayson Foster deserves a place on this list. It's insane that he isn't on there. Jermaine Austin as well. Ant Williams should have a spot at PR and John Mohring should be on as LB.

Other than that, it seems to be a pretty fair list. Some of the players may be from before my time as a 1-AA fan so I can't give a fair assessment.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Jayson Foster deserves a place on this list. It's insane that he isn't on there.
Other than that, it seems to be a pretty fair list. Some of the players may be from before my time as a 1-AA fan so I can't give a fair assessment.

Agreed, I would want foster on just about any all time team. I think the reason he falls through the cracks is that he doesn't exclusively fit at any one position. I wouldn't take him over Richie or Armanti at QB and he wasn't exclusively a running back. He deserves to be on the list, he was without a doubt one of the best Socon players in the last decade but I think it is hard to pick him for any one position. He was undeniably an exeptional player.

I think if you actually put together a full roster he would be on there and it would be fun to see how it would all play out. Imagine a backfield with the combos of say Richie, Foster, and AP. Or how bout Armanti, Felton, and Foster. Talk about a DC's worst nightmare.

[catdaddy2402]

Agreed, I would want foster on just about any all time team. I think the reason he falls through the cracks is that he doesn't exclusively fit at any one position. I wouldn't take him over Richie or Armanti at QB and he wasn't exclusively a running back. He deserves to be on the list, he was without a doubt one of the best Socon players in the last decade but I think it is hard to pick him for any one position. He was undeniably an exeptional player.

I think if you actually put together a full roster he would be on there and it would be fun to see how it would all play out. Imagine a backfield with the combos of say Richie, Foster, and AP. Or how bout Armanti, Felton, and Foster. Talk about a DC's worst nightmare.

I would have put Foster at All Purpose over Alpea.

[Black Saturday]

I believe AE will break all of Richie's record if he stays healthy and will be the choice after the 2009 season.

But Richie did have excellent numbers: 7,700 yards passing (5,900 in two seasons including 4 400 yard games) and 59 TDs, and nearly 1,500 yards rushing (900 in one season) and 22 TDs. Passing stats also include a 62% completion %, 40 completions in one game, and 28 consecutive completions (a NCAA record). Hill was a great one, but it's not hard to see why Richie got the honor.

That'll be a hell of a show if he breaks the 28 straight completion record. xthumbsupx

[seantaylor]

John Mohring over Cain and Ruff at Linebacker.

[Jerbearasu]

I would have put Foster at All Purpose over Alpea.

I can agree with that but I LOVED Troy back when he was here. I just don't think I could have left Foster off the list... Kinda surprised no Wofford grads on here too seeing as how they've won the conference twice and finished in the top half of the SoCon every year.

[asu70]

That'll be a hell of a show if he breaks the 28 straight completion record. xthumbsupx

If AE stays healthy, that will be the only record that he want break. IMO, AE is the best that I've see at App or in the Socon, and I've been watching App play for over forty years.

[08Dawg]

As usual, El Cid gets no love from Southern Pigskin. Nobody from Wofford, either? Interesting.

[proasu89]

http://southernpigskin.com/page.cfm?story=11687&cat=exclusives

Not a bad list... The only real disagreements I would have are Armanti Edwards (or even Greg Hill to a lesser extent) at QB over Richie Williams and Jayson Foster at All Purpose over Troy Albea. How anybody can leave Edwards (QB 2 NC, MVP of playoffs) and Foster (Payton Award, Fr of year) off any list like this is mind boggling.

To a lesser extent cases could be made for William Freeman (LB), Gerald Sensabaugh (DB), David Young (DB), Charles Clarke (OL), Jermaine Austin (over 5400 career rushing) (FB), Travis Stephens (LB), Matt Isenhour (OL), Katon Bethay (DL), Bear Rinehart (WR), Trent Sansbury (TE), Marques Murrell (DL), Jason Hunter (DL) just to name a few and there are many more.


Gerald finished at Unc so he's an ACC player in most journalists minds.

[BULLDOG8180]

The other thing that works in Williams favor is that he (considering the entire team) probably had a little less to work with. That is not a knock on the team at all. But looking back on the championships '05 was much more in doubt than '06. As a Furman fan, my favorite moment was watching him hobble on to the field in the second half of the NC game leading his team more from a motivational leadership standpoint than anything he could do athletically. It was quite emotional.

You are right the 2005 team wasn't as good as the 2006 and 2007 teams cause it didn't have ARMANTI!!!!!!

[PaladinFan]

As usual, El Cid gets no love from Southern Pigskin. Nobody from Wofford, either? Interesting.

Who would you put in there? Nemo Broughton? Over Louis Ivory?

[OL FU]

Richie had less to work with in 2003 and 2004, no question about it. I'm probably in the minority but I think that the 2005 team was stronger, factoring in both sides of the ball, than the next two. This is of course prior to Richie getting hurt in the semifinal. The ASU squad I saw against a very good Southern Illinois team in the quarterfinals was absolutely dominant. After Richie's injury our defense really carried us to the championship. Just an opinion though.

That might be and I would have to go back and rattle my memory as to exactly why, but it was my opinion that 2005 was more of a down year for I-AA in general. That may be simply because of how strong the field was in 2004 and it seemed strong again in 2006xtwocentsx

[AshevilleApp2]

That might be and I would have to go back and rattle my memory as to exactly why, but it was my opinion that 2005 was more of a down year for I-AA in general. That may be simply because of how strong the field was in 2004 and it seemed strong again in 2006xtwocentsx

Now the division may have been down in general in 2005, I honestly can't remember. My view is certainly skewed because we weren't in the playoffs the previous two years. But I remember thinking recently that Furman in 2005 was possibly the best team we faced in the playoffs in the last three seasons. (Apologies to JMU and Northern Iowa.)

[OL FU]

Now the division may have been down in general in 2005, I honestly can't remember. My view is certainly skewed because we weren't in the playoffs the previous two years. But I remember thinking recently that Furman in 2005 was possibly the best team we faced in the playoffs in the last three seasons. (Apologies to JMU and Northern Iowa.)

I realize you beat us in 2004, but in my opinion we were a much better team in 2004. Now that might be debatable. The offense was very good in 2005 but the defense was not. Martin was probably a better QB in 2005 although he ran into some problems he carried alot more weight in 2005 because we lost our deep threat receivers from 2004. My guess is you are comparing the 2004 team that came to ASU to the 2005 team. And with the exception of the ASU game, the 2004 defense was pretty darn good exept for one saturday in Boone. Understand I am not taking away from ASU's 2004 victory, but that Furman team wasn't the team that went 9-2 the rest of the yearxthumbsupx

Anyway one man's opinion, so forth......

[AshevilleApp2]

I realize you beat us in 2004, but in my opinion we were a much better team in 2004. Now that might be debatable. The offense was very good in 2005 but the defense was not. Martin was probably a better QB in 2005 although he ran into some problems he carried alot more weight in 2005 because we lost our deep threat receivers from 2004. My guess is you are comparing the 2004 team that came to ASU to the 2005 team. And with the exception of the ASU game, the 2004 defense was pretty darn good exept for one saturday in Boone. Understand I am not taking away from ASU's 2004 victory, but that Furman team wasn't the team that went 9-2 the rest of the yearxthumbsupx

Anyway one man's opinion, so forth......

The game in Boone in 2004 is my only basis of comparison since I didn't see any other Furman games that year. Did ya'll have a down game against JMU in the playoffs, or were they just that good in 2004?

The other consideration between the two years is the injury to Richie in the first quarter of the 2005 playoff game. The game may not have been as close as it was had he stayed healthy. No disrespect intended.

[OL FU]

The game in Boone in 2004 is my only basis of comparison since I didn't see any other Furman games that year. Did ya'll have a down game against JMU in the playoffs, or were they just that good in 2004?

The other consideration between the two years is the injury to Richie in the first quarter of the 2005 playoff game. The game may not have been as close as it was had he stayed healthy. No disrespect intended.

On the injury point, no argument. he was on fire until he went out. Of course if and & buts on things we will never know and of course since you won it doesn't matter:(

On JMU, we basically led the entire game and had a fumble on the goal line that would have put us up by 13. Near the end of the game had a field goal blocked that I believe would have put us up by 9 with not a lot of time left and subsequently JMU made the last drive of the game and won by one. Once again, if ands and buts:D

With that said, There were five (probably six with UD) teams that really look good that year (probably more) UM,JMU, W&M GSU and FU. GSU went out early in the rain storm. I believe one of the other teams mentioned beat UD in the first round. I think all of them were championship caliber and would have played very close games against each other no matter who ended up in the finals.

There might be some disagreement but I think the most FU fans would tell you the 2004 team was probably the best we have had in a while with the possible exception being 2001. MHO.

I will admit like I said before I judge 2005 against 2004 mainly based on Furman. Personally I think FU was much better in 2004 although we did get better as the 2005 season progressed and since we made it deeper in the playoffs in 2005, I conclude ( maybe incorrectly) that the 2004 I-AA teams were better. But it is all academic and really doesn't matter. We play each year against the teams of that same year, not the teams of the past or the future. xnodx

[AshevilleApp2]

On the injury point, no argument. he was on fire until he went out. Of course if and & buts on things we will never know and of course since you won it doesn't matter:(

On JMU, we basically led the entire game and had a fumble on the goal line that would have put us up by 13. Near the end of the game had a field goal blocked that I believe would have put us up by 9 with not a lot of time left and subsequently JMU made the last drive of the game and won by one. Once again, if ands and buts:D

With that said, There were five (probably six with UD) teams that really look good that year (probably more) UM,JMU, W&M GSU and FU. GSU went out early in the rain storm. I believe one of the other teams mentioned beat UD in the first round. I think all of them were championship caliber and would have played very close games against each other no matter who ended up in the finals.

There might be some disagreement but I think the most FU fans would tell you the 2004 team was probably the best we have had in a while with the possible exception being 2001. MHO.

I will admit like I said before I judge 2005 against 2004 mainly based on Furman. Personally I think FU was much better in 2004 although we did get better as the 2005 season progressed and since we made it deeper in the playoffs in 2005, I conclude ( maybe incorrectly) that the 2004 I-AA teams were better. But it is all academic and really doesn't matter. We play each year against the teams of that same year, not the teams of the past or the future. xnodx

Well said sir. xthumbsupx

[SoCon48]

Near the end of the game had a field goal blocked that I believe would have put us up

That's called strategy and defense by the other team.

[OL FU]

Near the end of the game had a field goal blocked that I believe would have put us up

That's called strategy and defense by the other team.

And your point isxconfusedx

Oh Yeah, who caresxrolleyesx

I don't think I was the least bit ungracious toward JMU and have never said they didn't deserve to win. I was responding to a question and in the end the answer to the question was, Yes JMU was that good. xpeacex

[SoCon48]

And your point isxconfusedx

Oh Yeah, who caresxrolleyesx

I don't think I was the least bit ungracious toward JMU and have never said they didn't deserve to win. I was responding to a question and in the end the answer to the question was, Yes JMU was that good. xpeacex

Chill.xcoffeex

No point really except to say that having FG blocked is not the same as the bad luck that a fumble or fumbles can be. Especially if a team blocks a lot over the course of a season.

And you know I'm for the SoCon team anytime vs the CAA.

[OL FU]

xpeacex
Chill.xcoffeex

No point really except to say that having FG blocked is not the same as the bad luck that a fumble or fumbles can be. Especially if a team blocks a lot over the course of a season.

And you know I'm for the SoCon team anytime vs the CAA.

Sorry been a rough week.

I think my point (which I didn't make well ) was to add evidence to the 2004 Furman team being better than the 2005 by saying we had the eventual national champion on the ropes most of the game (still lost though). (of course, I suppose one could make that argument about 2005 in Boone, but I do think the loss of Williams in that game was a big factor. as I said he was on fire before he was hurt)

But the point of the discussion I suppose was to compare Williams to Edwards and in my opinion Williams didn't have the overall team that Edwards has had.

More importantly, did any one ever answer my question on whether any of the mention players are still active in college. That might be one of the defining points that Josh used. If they are still playing they are not on the list.

[Jerbearasu]

More importantly, did any one ever answer my question on whether any of the mention players are still active in college. That might be one of the defining points that Josh used. If they are still playing they are not on the list.

No active players. Felton, Brown and Lynch all graduated this year and those are the most recent participants on the list. I don't know if he used that against current players or not but I agree that it should be Richie on the list. If I had a second team QB it would be Martin. I was always afraid of that kid.

[blueballs]

No active players. Felton, Brown and Lynch all graduated this year and those are the most recent participants on the list. I don't know if he used that against current players or not but I agree that it should be Richie on the list. If I had a second team QB it would be Martin. I was always afraid of that kid.

Again, I'm waiting on somebody to explain how Williams and especially Martin are ahead of Greg Hill...xrulesx

[OL FU]

Again, I'm waiting on somebody to explain how Williams and especially Martin are ahead of Greg Hill...xrulesx

He didn't want an all GSU/FU backfieldxeyebrowx

[whoanellie]

well by next year Elon's Terrell Hudgins ought to be a lock and by the time he graduates should be "GOAT" at at least one Wide out.
so far.... 2 season's two time AA
last year concencus AA and led country in receptions and yards and TD's
or very close ;-) trashed per game records for catches.
can cut on a dime.... then leave you nine cents-n-change....

[blueballs]

well by next year Elon's Terrell Hudgins ought to be a lock and by the time he graduates should be "GOAT" at at least one Wide out.
so far.... 2 season's two time AA
last year concencus AA and led country in receptions and yards and TD's
or very close ;-) trashed per game records for catches.
can cut on a dime.... then leave you nine cents-n-change....

It would seem that he has everything going for him... great talent, pass happy offense with a fine coach, and the same guy throwing to him for the next two years. We might be comparing this duo to Ball and Santos in a year or two.

[Jerbearasu]

Again, I'm waiting on somebody to explain how Williams and especially Martin are ahead of Greg Hill...xrulesx

I don't dispute that Hill was good (I actually thought Revere was almost as good too) but I look for the ability to pass when choosing a QB. Once again I think Troy Albea wasn't a strong choice for the all-purpose position and Hill could fit in that slot. I know Hill didn't have the opportunity to show off his arm with the offense that was run in Statesboro but a part of the QB position is being able to pass. And how could you leave out the SoCon's All-Time offensive leader (Richie Williams) for Hill who was a great runner?

[blueballs]

I don't dispute that Hill was good (I actually thought Revere was almost as good too) but I look for the ability to pass when choosing a QB. Once again I think Troy Albea wasn't a strong choice for the all-purpose position and Hill could fit in that slot. I know Hill didn't have the opportunity to show off his arm with the offense that was run in Statesboro but a part of the QB position is being able to pass. And how could you leave out the SoCon's All-Time offensive leader (Richie Williams) for Hill who was a great runner?

Because the only stats that matter are 37-6 and Hill NEVER had a game where his team lost by over 45 points and he was held to 50 or so yards total offense.

Hill was a fine passer in the context of the option offense. Look at Corey Joiner's and Chris Johnson's numbers for verification or Hill's passing stats from the 1998 semifinal against WIU.

People forget how good Greg Hill actually was, kinda like folks forget former GSU great Raymond Gross' incredible accomplishments pretty much because GSU was running an option offense (which in Hill's case GSU's offense was head and shoulders the most prolific in the division with him at QB in 1998 and 1999) instead of passing all over the field.

GSU averaged over 400 ypg rushing and over 40 ppg with Hill for the three years Hill was at the helm, won the conference all 3 years he was a starter, averaged 500 ypg and 50 ppg his SR year, went to the championship game twice winning once, and went 37-6 with him directing the offense. Hill was also conference POTY in 1999 beating out Adrian Peterson, who won the Payton that year, for the award. Only a handfull of players have gone over 3000 yds passing and rushing in a career, Greg Hill is one of them.

If GSU hadn't fumbled away the perfect season in the 1998 title game Hill would probably have his number hanging alongside Ham's and Peterson's at Paulson right now.

[Jerbearasu]

Because the only stats that matter are 37-6 and Hill NEVER had a game where his team lost by over 45 points and he was held to 50 or so yards total offense.

Hill was a fine passer in the context of the option offense. Look at Corey Joiner's and Chris Johnson's numbers for verification or Hill's passing stats from the 1998 semifinal against WIU.

People forget how good Greg Hill actually was, kinda like folks forget former GSU great Raymond Gross' incredible accomplishments pretty much because GSU was running an option offense (which in Hill's case GSU's offense was head and shoulders the most prolific in the division with him at QB in 1998 and 1999) instead of passing all over the field.

GSU averaged over 400 ypg rushing and over 40 ppg with Hill for the three years Hill was at the helm, won the conference all 3 years he was a starter, averaged 500 ypg and 50 ppg his SR year, went to the championship game twice winning once, and went 37-6 with him directing the offense. Hill was also conference POTY in 1999 beating out Adrian Peterson, who won the Payton that year, for the award. Only a handfull of players have gone over 3000 yds passing and rushing in a career, Greg Hill is one of them.

If GSU hadn't fumbled away the perfect season in the 1998 title game Hill would probably have his number hanging alongside Ham's and Peterson's at Paulson right now.

I understand your point and agree that Hill was good but you asked for reasons as to why Richie deserved it over him. Richie was the face of the ASU program for 3 years. He was a captain from his Sophomore year on and every single player worked harder IMO because of his example. He led us even when we weren't good (and yes we did lose by 45 to GSU in 04 but you can't blame that on one person only).

Hill wasn't even the most dynamic player on his team by a long shot. AP made GSU so much stronger and made Hill look better. Richie made his teammates look better. I don't think Fowlkes would have had the season he had in 04 with any other QB ASU has had in the past 20 years. We asked Richie to play in 3 different offensive systems (I-form, Spread Option with a pass emphasis and Spread with the run emphasis) and he excelled in every single one of them.

Once again this is not a knock on Hill but you asked for reasons as to why Williams should be selected over him. Richie was POTY in 05, he led the team from nothing to the NC and he is the SoCon's All-Time offensive leader. How can you dispute that? This is definitely a debateable subject but I think the list got the QB spot right.