State of Union for TxSt-San Marcos

[TexasTerror]

A not so good picture is painted of the San Marcos based institution, that is looking to move to "Division I" according to just about every reference in this story. Brings up budget issues and football assistant coaching salaries, the possibility of another sport and that the Bobcats are chasing a football date with Texas (something that rival SHSU has already achieved).
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The state of the union for Texas State
In Division I pursuit, Bobcats have work cut out for them

By Kirk Bohls
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, April 13, 2008

SAN MARCOS — It's a warm Saturday afternoon in September of 2013, and Texas is taking the field at 100,000-seat Royal-Memorial Stadium for its season-opener against fellow Division I-A football member ...

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/04/13/0413bohls.html

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Hey TT, why did you alter the original name of the story? xnonox

[GeauxLions94]

"It depends on where we see ourselves fitting," second-year football coach Brad Wright said. "If our goal is to be at the bottom rung, it would not be very good, but if we can make the program as good as we can and hit the ground running, it could be great."

xnonox


"Universities that play Division I football, their degrees are more valued," Bailiff said. "I realize that's nuts, but I think they attract top-level students."

Uh Bailiff, Texas State already does!


Teis just finished signing a contract with Texas for another men's basketball game next season, and the two schools play in just about every sport except football. Maybe that'll come, too. After all, why shouldn't Texas help a smaller in-state school, and if Texas is really afraid of Texas State, it's not Texas any more.

"Jokingly, I've brought it up," Teis said of a game. "I honestly think in a few years it'll happen. Maybe when we get to 85 scholarships, you'll see that down the road. But that's in the future."

For now, that is putting the cart about a mile in front of the horse. Here's hoping the horse can catch up.

Sorry Bobcat fans, but last statement is true. UT won't EVER let it happen.

[MaximumBobcat]

Geaux, you realize that part about the bottom rung, he is talking about how we are not going to be okay with being bottom rung right? I don't understand why you wag your finger at that?

You also don't think UT will let what happen? Us move to FBS? They have no say. Or are you talking about playing a game with them? If so, who cares about future scheduling when there are more important things coming up.

[MaximumBobcat]

A not so good picture is painted of the San Marcos based institution, that is looking to move to "Division I" according to just about every reference in this story. Brings up budget issues and football assistant coaching salaries, the possibility of another sport and that the Bobcats are chasing a football date with Texas (something that rival SHSU has already achieved).
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Not so good look is definitely your opinion. I read that and all I saw was a lot of WORK has to be done before the move up. A challenge does not equal a not so good outlook.

I guess maybe a few old wealthy alums might want us to play UT, but most fans know that it would just be stupid of us to play them, we would get slaughtered. Probably not as bad as SHSU, what was it...56 to 3? But we would probably still get whooped pretty bad. Most of our fans know we need to start playing teams like UNT, SMU, UH and start trying to compete with them before we move to trying to compete with BCS teams.

[TexasTerror]

Hey TT, why did you alter the original name of the story? xnonox

I did not alter the original name of the story. Within the post, it states "The state of the union for Texas State".

Great series against UT-Pan Am by the way. That's a bad ball club in Edinburg, I guess there's an even worse one that plays at Memorial Park.


Geaux, you realize that part about the bottom rung, he is talking about how we are not going to be okay with being bottom rung right? I don't understand why you wag your finger at that?

Since when was the Southland Conference at the bottom rung? Perhaps your football team has been at the bottom rung in the conference -- but the conference is not the bottom rung.

[MaximumBobcat]

Since when was the Southland Conference at the bottom rung? Perhaps your football team has been at the bottom rung in the conference -- but the conference is not the bottom rung.

I never said that, and neither did Coach Wright. What I think he was talking about was moving to FBS and then being stuck in the bottom of the Sunbelt. He said that that would not be good and we need to try to join FBS competing in every game.

[TexasTerror]

Not so good look is definitely your opinion. I read that and all I saw was a lot of WORK has to be done before the move up. A challenge does not equal a not so good outlook.

I really hope this story painted a picture for your fans. It probably could have done a bit more to do so, but talking to people in the media, around the conference and such -- it does not seem like your fans are quite caught up on the problems that exist in your athletic department that would make it hard for your school to make the move up.

Good luck with your attempt to move up. Seems you are going to provide a similar example to that of Florida A&M for schools that really are approaching it the wrong way...

I really hope the SLC has the chutzpah to kick you out of the conference one year before the moratorium ends.

And is the $13M budget number true? If so, you guys really are not getting too much bang for your buck when it comes to athletic success...

[PantherRob82]

wow.


"Universities that play Division I football, their degrees are more valued," Bailiff said. "I realize that's nuts, but I think they attract top-level students."

Best quote ever?

I would've said: "Universities that have more than one sucessful season, their degrees are more valued," Bailiff said. "I realize that's nuts, but I think they attract top-level students."

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I did not alter the original name of the story. Within the post, it states "The state of the union for Texas State".

Great series against UT-Pan Am by the way. That's a bad ball club in Edinburg, I guess there's an even worse one that plays at Memorial Park.


xconfusedx Memorial Park? Our baseball team has never played at Memorial Park (prime example why you are incompetent).

[TexasTerror]

xconfusedx Memorial Park? Our baseball team has never played at Memorial Park (prime example why you are incompetent).

Got your softball team and baseball team mixed up -- my apologies. MacGregor Park for baseball...by the way, thanks to TxSo for agreeing to throw us batting practice at MacGregor tomorrow (you keeping stats?)...3rd Coast, incompetent -- me? You need to hope Rudley and McClelland can help clean that mess up.

[McNeese_beat]

A not so good picture is painted of the San Marcos based institution, that is looking to move to "Division I" according to just about every reference in this story. Brings up budget issues and football assistant coaching salaries, the possibility of another sport and that the Bobcats are chasing a football date with Texas (something that rival SHSU has already achieved).
------------------------
The state of the union for Texas State
In Division I pursuit, Bobcats have work cut out for them

By Kirk Bohls
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, April 13, 2008

SAN MARCOS — It's a warm Saturday afternoon in September of 2013, and Texas is taking the field at 100,000-seat Royal-Memorial Stadium for its season-opener against fellow Division I-A football member ...

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/04/13/0413bohls.html

That Kirk Bohls, a long-time columnist for the American-Statesman, would be so lazy with the facts sort of illustrates the biggest problem Texas State has in its market.

Of course Texas State is already D-I (and, for that matter, Wyoming is not in a BCS conference, as he implies). But the reason he is lazy (shameful really) with his facts is that if it's below the Big 12 level in the Austin market, nobody cares.

In that context, moving to the FCS and being at that bottom rung of "Division I" that they seek would be spinning wheels. They would still be lost in the muck where typical Longhorn people like Bohls won't know if you are BCS, Division I, I-AA, FCS, FBS, Division II, NAIA, a junior college or whatever. It's all lumped in a category best described as "beneath the 'Horns" from their point of view.

I made a point in a column (not going to rehash in detail here) that the evidence shows that there is no correlation between mid-majors playing FBS football and their success at other sports (evidenced by Davidson's run to the Elite 8, George Mason's Final Four run, Gonzaga's success, the success in general of the MVC and the CAA in basketball, the baseball success of West Coast mid-major programs like Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach, Pepperdine, etc.). I will take on any "I-A" or, ahem, "D-I" wanna-be on that topic any day. In fact, I would suggest that if you live beyond your means in football, it might hurt your other sports. The Sun Belt Conference was a better basketball conference well before it started sponsoring I-A football (Western Kentucky's run aside).

I would also suggest that the same is true in academics. Do you really believe having 85 football scholarships helps your English department? C'mon! That is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. If that's the case, please explain Harvard, Yale, Princeton and the rest of the Ivy. Please explain the Patriot League members. Has Syracuse academically surpassed Cornell in the minds of upstate New Yorkers because Art Monk and Donovan McNabb went there? That's ludicrous. Are Cal Tech and Cal Poly second-rate academic schools? Is San Jose State now a better academic school than Poly because it plays FBS football? I don't think anybody thinks this.

There is a general relationship between the size of a football program and the resources of the university in general, including resources to be a research institution. But the tail doesn't necessarily wag the dog and probably does not. Football didn't make LSU or Texas or OU or Alabama flagship institutions. It's quite the opposite. That LSU was designated as the state of Louisiana's official flagship school over 100 years ago allowed its athletic department to grow to SEC status. Perhaps somebody could cite an exception to this rule.

So you want to jump academically? Try improving your engineering department, not your football schedule. Want to improve your basketball program? Try winning some games in the conference you are in and making noise in the post-season, thus allowing you to increase revenue and give your coach a raise so you can keep him (like a Mark Few or, evidently, an Anthony Grant).

[JohnStOnge]

Geaux, you realize that part about the bottom rung, he is talking about how we are not going to be okay with being bottom rung right? I don't understand why you wag your finger at that?=.

The problem is that the overwhelming likelihood is that Texas State will, in FBS, be at or close to the bottom rung. And that Statement about having to have "Division I" (presumably referring to FBS) to have top students is absurd. It really is. I'd like to see an analysis of how the average caliber of students has changed at various schools because of changing from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS.

Tell MIT or City University of New York that you have to have even a Division I football program to attract top students. Tell that to Centenary or Louisiana College in Louisiana...one of which doesn't have a football program at all and the other of which has a Division III program but both of which have more "impressive" student bodies in terms of academics than any school with a FBS football program (or FCS program, for that matter) in the State does except maybe Tulane (which would not suffer in that area by losing football, believe me, as its students generally pretty much don't care about it). And tell the schools in the Ivy and Patriot leagues that FBS schools attract a "better" quality of student than they do.

Absolute nonsense.

[MaximumBobcat]

The problem is that the overwhelming likelihood is that Texas State will, in FBS, be at or close to the bottom rung. And that Statement about having to have "Division I" (presumably referring to FBS) to have top students is absurd. It really is. I'd like to see an analysis of how the average caliber of students has changed at various schools because of changing from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS.

Tell MIT or City University of New York that you have to have even a Division I football program to attract top students. Tell that to Centenary or Louisiana College in Louisiana...one of which doesn't have a football program at all and the other of which has a Division III program but both of which have more "impressive" student bodies in terms of academics than any school with a FBS football program (or FCS program, for that matter) in the State does except maybe Tulane (which would not suffer in that area by losing football, believe me, as its students generally pretty much don't care about it). And tell the schools in the Ivy and Patriot leagues that FBS schools attract a "better" quality of student than they do.

Absolute nonsense.

While your assumption that we will be near the bottom rung is not ridiculous, if me as a fan would adopt that attitude it would simply be defeatist. We will try to win while competing at the highest level, regardless of past winning or losing records.

About your whole thing about FBS/Academics, maybe you should go tell the head Coach at Rice, David Bailiff about it. He's the one that said it, no one on here did. I agree that going FBS does not have any direct connection with instantly increasing an institutions academics/donations/students, etc. I do agree however with what someone previously stated in this thread, that there is a general overall relationship between FBS and University resources, which in turn may attract better students. Also, a lot of your comparisons were Private Universities that may have other student incentives or they were Publics that are in drastically different environments then we are in. University of NY or MIT students don't care half as much about college football as we do here in Texas. As for Centenary, there are plenty of fine small LACs that don't have football all over the country, this is nothing new, but again we are not a small LAC.

[McNeese_beat]

While your assumption that we will be near the bottom rung is not ridiculous, if me as a fan would adopt that attitude it would simply be defeatist. We will try to win while competing at the highest level, regardless of past winning or losing records.

About your whole thing about FBS/Academics, maybe you should go tell the head Coach at Rice, David Bailiff about it. He's the one that said it, no one on here did. I agree that going FBS does not have any direct connection with instantly increasing an institutions academics/donations/students, etc. I do agree however with what someone previously stated in this thread, that there is a general overall relationship between FBS and University resources, which in turn may attract better students. Also, a lot of your comparisons were Private Universities that may have other student incentives or they were Publics that are in drastically different environments then we are in. University of NY or MIT students don't care half as much about college football as we do here in Texas. As for Centenary, there are plenty of fine small LACs that don't have football all over the country, this is nothing new, but again we are not a small LAC.

<< I do agree however with what someone previously stated in this thread, that there is a general overall relationship between FBS and University resources, which in turn may attract better students.>>

The relationship is generally this: Universities large enough to be able to finance multiple research-oriented, graduate-level academic programs are also able to finance major (i.e., Division I, FBS) sports programs.

My opinion is if you have a large, research-based university producing bushels of post-graduate alums moving on to six and seven-figure careers, you'll potentially have the financial backing for big-time (BCS, legit FBS) sports. Until you have that built-in advantage, sports will be a drain on your limited resources, not a source of income to prop up your academic standing.

Just my opinion.

<<Also, a lot of your comparisons were Private Universities that may have other student incentives or they were Publics that are in drastically different environments then we are in>>

Actually, the environment at NYU (as a former resident of New York), which, by the way, is another private school, is quite comparable to the environment in San Marcos when it comes to the students' relationships with sports. NYU and the CUNYs (which are public) don't play major college sports and won't pursue them because NYC is a pro sports town and there's no market for it. Similarly, Texas State is very limited because the Austin area and the San Antonio area are Big 12 towns...there's a very limited market for low-level D-I sports.

[MaximumBobcat]

Actually, the environment at NYU (as a former resident of New York), which, by the way, is another private school, is quite comparable to the environment in San Marcos when it comes to the students' relationships with sports. NYU and the CUNYs (which are public) don't play major college sports and won't pursue them because NYC is a pro sports town and there's no market for it. Similarly, Texas State is very limited because the Austin area and the San Antonio area are Big 12 towns...there's a very limited market for low-level D-I sports.

Interesting, thanks. I think a lot of TxSt fans feel that we have the potential to be successful at the highest level, maybe it's all in our heads, maybe not. We'll never know unless we try though.

[TexasTerror]

What is the latest on UTSA football by the way? It's been relatively quiet. As we all know, UTSA getting an FBS football would really be a bad thing for the school in between Austin and San Antonio. I do not think the market could handle all of those schools...

The bright side of San Marcos is that it's a short drive from Austin or San Antonio. There's a few schools out there where you have to fly into a city and drive even longer to get to the destination. Yuck!