Dayton Official Schedule & Gridiron Classic Confirmation

[DetroitFlyer]

http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/041108aaa.html

The 2008 Gridiron Classic will be played on Saturday, December 6 pitting the champions of the PFL and the Northeast Conference at the NEC winner's home field.



Word on the Gridiron Classic has been pretty sparse this Spring, but I got it on good authority yesterday that the GIC is on for 2008 and 2009. Maybe that has something to do with playoffs expanding in 2010....

So, will the Classic be in Albany or Loretto, PA this season? If Dayton wins the PFL and gets shafted for a playoff bid again, I hope that the Classic is Dayton at Saint Francis in Loretto, PA....;)

[danefan]

I was hoping they would cancel it.

No chance at any PFL or NEC team making the playoffs as long as the Gridiron Classic fodder is alive.

[Model Citizen]

No chance at any PFL or NEC team making the playoffs as long as the Gridiron Classic fodder is alive.

Is that because of a scheduling conflict, or because the NEC has been beaten to death in the Gridiron Classic? xwhistlex

[danefan]

Is that because of a scheduling conflict, or because the NEC has been beaten to death in the Gridiron Classic? xwhistlex

Neither. Its because it gives the committee an "out" and it screams of succumbing to inferiority. Playing in this game says "we're not the same level so we need to have our own game". And the committee's resonpse: "Don't worry about Dayton, they have the Gridiron Classic to play in."


And it has absolutely nothing to do with the PFL's wins over the NEC. Guess what, they prove nothing but that San Diego was better then Monmouth on that day and Dayton was better then Albany on that day.
The fact that PFL fans have only that to hang your hats on, says something, IMO.xpeacex

[Model Citizen]

...the committee's resonpse: "Don't worry about Dayton, they have the Gridiron Classic to play in."

Agreed. After the NEC is out of the picture, the PFL will undoubtedly find another event separate from the playoffs.

[DetroitFlyer]

Neither. Its because it gives the committee an "out" and it screams of succumbing to inferiority. Playing in this game says "we're not the same level so we need to have our own game". And the committee's resonpse: "Don't worry about Dayton, they have the Gridiron Classic to play in."


And it has absolutely nothing to do with the PFL's wins over the NEC. Guess what, they prove nothing but that San Diego was better then Monmouth on that day and Dayton was better then Albany on that day.
The fact that PFL fans have only that to hang your hats on, says something, IMO.xpeacex


Hey now, I heard a PFL team beat Fordham last season....xlolx

But I do agree that as long as the GIC exists, it gives the old guard another tool to keep the PFL and NEC out of the playoffs.... The NEC seems destined for an automatic bid by 2010, while the PFL is still twittling it's collective thumbs relative to the autobid situation, so maybe the PFL is the driver of the GIC now? Come 2010, I do not know what the PFL is hoping for.... Maybe a return to divisions and a chamionship game, or maybe a bowl game with the A-Sun Champion? I know, they are hoping for that "earned access" thing to be worked out.... LOL!!!!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The over/under on the number of posts before Fordham was mentioned by DF was 5 1/2 - that means bison137 wins the pool.

[DetroitFlyer]

The over/under on the number of posts before Fordham was mentioned by DF was 5 1/2 - that means bison137 wins the pool.


If anyone wants some "insider" information for the next pool, feel free to PM me.... LOL!!xlolx

[Go...gate]

The over/under on the number of posts before Fordham was mentioned by DF was 5 1/2 - that means bison137 wins the pool.


xlolx xlolx xlolx

[401ks]

Guess what, they prove nothing but that San Diego was better then Monmouth on that day and Dayton was better then Albany on that day.

xcoffeex

Danefan, you know that I really respect your opinion, but this one is a little "out there". xeyebrowx

The "We-may-not-be-FBS-but-at-least-we're-better-than-THEM" crowd always says that a team from the PFL (or the NEC for that matter) that is "allowed" into the FCS playoffs would just be cannon-fodder for a "real" FCS team.

To a certain extent I agree that in some cases that may be so, however...

If that were to take place, the cannon-fodder PFL or NEC team could say, "That proves nothing but that (Appalachian State) was better than (Dayton) on that day." By inference saying that doesn't prove that the SoCon is a tougher conference than the PFL.

Even I would join the uproar over the outrageousness of that statement.

The best team from the PFL has beaten ON THE FIELD the best team from the NEC (rather handily) in the two years of the GIC. That says a lot more than "San Diego was better than Monmouth on that day" and "Dayton was better than Albany on that day."

xpeacex

[bluehenbillk]

If Dayton wins the PFL and gets shafted for a playoff bid again

xwhistlex You're kidding right? xwhistlex

[DetroitFlyer]

xwhistlex You're kidding right? xwhistlex

Not Exactly....xeyebrowx

[danefan]

xcoffeex

Danefan, you know that I really respect your opinion, but this one is a little "out there". xeyebrowx

The "We-may-not-be-FBS-but-at-least-we're-better-than-THEM" crowd always says that a team from the PFL (or the NEC for that matter) that is "allowed" into the FCS playoffs would just be cannon-fodder for a "real" FCS team.

To a certain extent I agree that in some cases that may be so, however...

If that were to take place, the cannon-fodder PFL or NEC team could say, "That proves nothing but that (Appalachian State) was better than (Dayton) on that day." By inference saying that doesn't prove that the SoCon is a tougher conference than the PFL.

Even I would join the uproar over the outrageousness of that statement.

The best team from the PFL has beaten ON THE FIELD the best team from the NEC (rather handily) in the two years of the GIC. That says a lot more than "San Diego was better than Monmouth on that day" and "Dayton was better than Albany on that day."

xpeacex

I see what you're saying, but I still don't agree. There are so many factors to take into consideration that I think its almost impossible to compare one conference to another based on one game (or two in separate years for that matter).

Using your logic, I could stretch to say that the PFL was better then the NEC on the day of the gridiron classic. But remember, the "better" team when looked at in the context of an entire season does not always win on the field. For that day the winner was better, no doubt.

An example in the reverse of your statement that sticks out in my mind is when Albany beat Delaware in 2006. No way can you say anything else but that Albany was better then Delaware on that day. I cannot say that the NEC is as good as the CAA.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the PFL is to the NEC as the NEC is to the PFL. I'm just saying you guys are hanging your entire conferences hat on one game (or two games in successive seasons).

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

AFAIK, nobody answered this question on another thread so I'll ask it again here. Why hasn't the Pioneer League asked the NCAA for an auto-bid? With all the noise made on this forum by fans from Dayton and San Diego, I would think you've made your opinions well known to your respective ADs. I would think the ADs would then be pressing the Pioneer League to request an AQ.

[DetroitFlyer]

AFAIK, nobody answered this question on another thread so I'll ask it again here. Why hasn't the Pioneer League asked the NCAA for an auto-bid? With all the noise made on this forum by fans from Dayton and San Diego, I would think you've made your opinions well known to your respective ADs. I would think the ADs would then be pressing the Pioneer League to request an AQ.

Frankly, I wish I had a good answer.... In the past I have been told that the PFL is worried that if the league aggressively pursues an automatic bid, the "Old Guard" of the NCAA and FCS, ( my words by the way ), may use that as another excuse to cram through something like the "OVC Rule". Of course the PFL is firmly committed to the non-scholarship model, so something like the "OVC Rule" would be very bad for the league, and for all practical purposes, destroy the league. So, in the meantime, the PFL continues to make its teams available for the FCS playoffs, (unlike the Ivy and SWAC), while not pursuing an automatic bid....

This is where the NCAA has to simply step up and do the right thing. The PFL should not have to make a choice between its very existence and applying for an automatic bid to the playoffs. The NCAA should expand the playoffs and offer an automatic bid to EVERY eligible conference.

Not all that complicated if you ask me....

[danefan]

Frankly, I wish I had a good answer.... In the past I have been told that the PFL is worried that if the league aggressively pursues an automatic bid, the "Old Guard" of the NCAA and FCS, ( my words by the way ), may use that as another excuse to cram through something like the "OVC Rule". Of course the PFL is firmly committed to the non-scholarship model, so something like the "OVC Rule" would be very bad for the league, and for all practical purposes, destroy the league. So, in the meantime, the PFL continues to make its teams available for the FCS playoffs, (unlike the Ivy and SWAC), while not pursuing an automatic bid....

This is where the NCAA has to simply step up and do the right thing. The PFL should not have to make a choice between its very existence and applying for an automatic bid to the playoffs. The NCAA should expand the playoffs and offer an automatic bid to EVERY eligible conference.

Not all that complicated if you ask me....

Also doesn't help that your Commish is clearly more interested in that other conference she head's up.xtwocentsx

[401ks]

I'm just saying you guys are hanging your entire conferences hat on one game (or two games in successive seasons).

I wouldn't say "you guys" as though ALL of the supporters of PFL football feel the same way. ;)

However, I certainly see the point that is often(! :o ) brought up that when a top-tier PFL team has played a "decent" FCS team, the PFL team has acquitted itself quite well. There is no way that I could begin to argue that recent Dayton and San Diego teams represent the quality of the ENTIRE PFL just as you could not say that Albany in 2007 or Monmouth in 2006 represent the quality of the ENTIRE NEC.

It will take the eventual upgrading of the entire PFL OOC schedule to "prove" (as much as I wish that were not necessary!) to the "We-may-not-be-FBS-but-at-least-we're-better-than-THEM" crowd and others that (at least) the top teams of the PFL are the equal of the better teams of the rest of the FCS.

I don't think that the fact that Albany gave Montana everything they could handle, but were whipped (let's be honest here) by Dayton is purely a scheduling fluke, or an "any given saturday"-type of scenario. I truly believe that Dayton was that good. That doesn't mean that Butler or Valparaiso or Jacksonville was ANYWHERE NEAR "that good" just as it doesn't mean that Sacred Heart or St. Francis or Robert Morris was anywhere near as good as Albany. (Goodness knows that Western Carolina was nowhere near as good as Appalachian State, for example.)

Given recent history, it would be hard to argue that the NEC overall is superior to the PFL. But I would also not argue the opposite. It is a useless debate. The GIC is what it is. And I am one that supports its demise in favor of real, SERIOUS access to the playoffs.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Frankly, I wish I had a good answer.... In the past I have been told that the PFL is worried that if the league aggressively pursues an automatic bid, the "Old Guard" of the NCAA and FCS, ( my words by the way ), may use that as another excuse to cram through something like the "OVC Rule". Of course the PFL is firmly committed to the non-scholarship model, so something like the "OVC Rule" would be very bad for the league, and for all practical purposes, destroy the league. So, in the meantime, the PFL continues to make its teams available for the FCS playoffs, (unlike the Ivy and SWAC), while not pursuing an automatic bid....

Not trusting my memory I tried to do a search on "OVC Rule" so that I knew precisely what you were referring to, but either got nothing or way too many threads to read. Can you point me to a thread where that term was defined?



This is where the NCAA has to simply step up and do the right thing. The PFL should not have to make a choice between its very existence and applying for an automatic bid to the playoffs. The NCAA should expand the playoffs and offer an automatic bid to EVERY eligible conference.

Not all that complicated if you ask me....

To play devil's advocate, when the PFL has the non scholarship model much like the Ivy League who is on record as not wanting to participate in the playoffs, how is the NCAA supposed to know the Pioneer League is interested if they don't request an auto-bid? Or at least has enough discussion with the NCAA so that the Pioneer's view is crystal clear?

JMHO, but you're expecting too much of the NCAA considering there are already eligible conferences that aren't interested in the playoffs.

[downbythebeach]

Not trusting my memory I tried to do a search on "OVC Rule" so that I knew precisely what you were referring to, but either got nothing or way too many threads to read. Can you point me to a thread where that term was defined?

To play devil's advocate, when the PFL has the non scholarship model much like the Ivy League who is on record as not wanting to participate in the playoffs, how is the NCAA supposed to know the Pioneer League is interested if they don't request an auto-bid? Or at least has enough discussion with the NCAA so that the Pioneer's view is crystal clear?

JMHO, but you're expecting too much of the NCAA considering there are already eligible conferences that aren't interested in the playoffs.

I think the reasoning was that the NEC had been denied for the past few years, and that they thought they would hear the same thing.

[downbythebeach]

Dayton and the PFL need to go UT Martin style and play 2 FBS teams just for the money and get shallacked......for some reason even a beat down by a FBS team is better than a D2 win.....oh yeah and everyone on AGS will talk about how you finally made a competitive schedule regardless of the scores

[UAalum72]

Not trusting my memory I tried to do a search on "OVC Rule" so that I knew precisely what you were referring to, but either got nothing or way too many threads to read. Can you point me to a thread where that term was defined?
Here's the proposal https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBi.LSDBi_LP_Search.D1_DisplayProposal?p_ID=2092&p_HeadFoot=1&p_CallCount=1&p_BylawTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDuplic ated&p_IntentTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDupli cated&p_RationaleTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDu plicated
2007-101 that was sponsored by the Ohio Valley Conference and was defeated. There were one or two proposals the year before with similar requirements for a conference to receive an automatic bid, like this one from 2006 https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBi.LSDBi_LP_Search.D1_DisplayProposal?p_ID=1802&p_HeadFoot=1&p_CallCount=1&p_BylawTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDuplic ated&p_IntentTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDupli cated&p_RationaleTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDu plicated They were also either defeated or withdrawn.