Were the Phils really better under Manuel this year?

[Marcus Garvey]

I don't think so. They finished only 2 games better than they ever did under Bowa. The players like to say they were in the race because of the more "relaxed" clubhouse atmosphere. I say it was because they teams ahead of them weren't as good this year!

Anyway, the Phillies are primarily a bunch of overpaid, underperforming cry-babies. My biggest regret is that, because they were in it until the last day of the season, their idiot GM, Ed Wade, will return for yet another year in Philly!

Have the Vegas sports books placed odds on Wade trading Ryan Howard yet? I figure it's 3-2 right now.

[Ivytalk]

I agree that the Phils were about the same. Wade will be lynched if he trades Howard. Manuel is an idiot. Key losses against the Mets and Astros down the stretch did the Phils in. They have nobody to blame but themselves. If they don't re-sign Wagner, they're no better than fourth place next year.

[89Hen]

Key losses against the... Astros down the stretch did the Phils in. They have nobody to blame but themselves.
That's the whole shooting match there. They didn't deserve the WC with their performance against the Astros.

[ngineer]

Agreed on all of the above. Phils need to upgrade at 3B and Catcher, as well as getting another starter--since I'm not sure the farm system has anything great there. They'll have to swallow some of Thome's contract and get him to the AL as a DH and hope to get something in these areas.

[Marcus Garvey]

What's frustrating is that their payroll is so freaking high! Thome, Lieberthal, Burrell, Bell and Cormier account for nearly $35 Million of a $95 Million payroll!
:eek:

Frankly, all of those guys, except Burrell are pretty worthless. Burrell has value, he's simply overpaid right now! Chase Utley is only making $345,000 and he's worth 3 Pat Burrells!

[ngineer]

What's frustrating is that their payroll is so freaking high! Thome, Lieberthal, Burrell, Bell and Cormier account for nearly $35 Million of a $95 Million payroll!
:eek:

Frankly, all of those guys, except Burrell are pretty worthless. Burrell has value, he's simply overpaid right now! Chase Utley is only making $345,000 and he's worth 3 Pat Burrells!
No question about that. If this rookie Victorino shows staying power, look for a possible deal with Burrell involved. HIs numbers were up this year,(giving him improved value) but he is horribly suseptible to the low and away pitch.
Utley, keep in mind platooned the first two months. His numbers would hve been higher. Cormier has to go. Bell and Lieberthal are on the down side.