Southern Conference OWNS the Big 10

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Just a few months removed from APP State defeating #5 and Big 10 pre-season favorite, Michigan. we have another SoCon member humbling the Big 10 - Davidson - 73 - Big 10 Champion Wisconsin - 56 --- Need I say more???

[AppStFan76]

Just a few months removed from APP State defeating #5 and Big 10 pre-season favorite, Michigan. we have another SoCon member humbling the Big 10 - Davidson - 73 - Big 10 Champion Wisconsin - 56 --- Need I say more???

I had the same thought watching the Davidson game last night. I love it!!xlolx xlolx xlolx

[blueballs]

SoCon>Big 10... nuff said.xlolx xbowx

I sure did enjoy watching those Davidson STUDENT/ATHLETES completely pick apart the Big 10 Champions.xlolx xbowx xthumbsupx

[catamount man]

Damn right!!! Add The Citadel's performance against Wisconsin in football last season as well. They should've WON that game.

SoCon, represent!!! xbowx xbowx xbowx

GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[Appinator]

Those kids didn't know what hit them. I was thinking this the entire game. I bet you could still ask the majority of the kids at a B10 school who and where the SoCon was, and they still wouldn't know.xcoolx

[RadMann]

New Hampshire beat Northwestern in football not long ago, and NDSU beat Minnesota last year in football, so it is not just the So Con by any means.

[Bluehenfan08]

2 Wins out of how many attemps. I would not say that is owning anybody.

[blueballs]

2 Wins out of how many attemps. I would not say that is owning anybody.

What's the Big 10's record against the SoCon in ALL sports in the academic year 2007-2008?

You just might be really shocked at the result and owned is definitely the correct term.xrulesx

[PaladinFan]

Wofford beat Purdue this year in basketball as well.

[blueballs]

GSU blisters #15 Michigan in baseball three weeks ago...

http://www.georgiasoutherneagles.com/downloads1/36699.htm?ATCLID=1407669&SPSID=90355&SPID=10900&DB_OEM_ID=18700

[JohnStOnge]

What's the Big 10's record against the SoCon in ALL sports in the academic year 2007-2008?

You just might be really shocked at the result and owned is definitely the correct term.xrulesx

Well...it'd be hard to check on ALL sports for this academic year but I suspect the Big 10 would have more wins in head to head contests of all the various sports added up. I did quickly look at Football, Basketball, and Womens Basketball and counted 1-1 in Football, 4-2 Big 10 in Basketball, and 1-0 Big 10 in Womens' Basketball for a total of 6-3 Big 10 in those three sports. Could have missed something because I just kind of scanned through the schedules but I'm pretty sure the Big 10 has the edge.

But I So Con has indeed done very well against the Big 10, particularly in those two very high profile games (Michigan football and Wisconsin basketball). "Owned" may not be the word but considering the relative resource levels of the two leagues the So Con has acquitted itself very well and gotten some really good publicity.

[aust42]

What's the Big 10's record against the SoCon in ALL sports in the academic year 2007-2008?

You just might be really shocked at the result and owned is definitely the correct term.xrulesx

Not sure about all sports but in Football the Southern Conf is 1-2 vs the Big Ten. Here is a cool link to research teams/conf all time records vs each other.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/index.php

[MplsBison]

GSU blisters #15 Michigan in baseball three weeks ago...

http://www.georgiasoutherneagles.com/downloads1/36699.htm?ATCLID=1407669&SPSID=90355&SPID=10900&DB_OEM_ID=18700



Yeah but NCAA baseball is nothing relative to the MLB versus what NCAA football is relative to the NFL and NCAA basketball is relative to the NBA.



And it won't be until the NCAA extends the baseball season into the summer to allow northern schools a fair chance to compete.

[Baldy]

Yeah but NCAA baseball is nothing relative to the MLB versus what NCAA football is relative to the NFL and NCAA basketball is relative to the NBA.
Why isn't it?

NCAA football, basketball, and baseball are all relative to each other and that is what matters. xnodx

[Millwoch]

Damn right!!! Add The Citadel's performance against Wisconsin in football last season as well. They should've WON that game.

SoCon, represent!!! xbowx xbowx xbowx

GO CATAMOUNTS!!!


Not sure we should have won it. But we did push them against the wall and they were able to put up enought points to beat us. We scored late to make the score respectable. I'll never forget their fans booing them off the field at half, when the score was tied.

Great win for Davidson and more money in the pockets of all the socon schools with each win.

[JohnStOnge]

Not sure about all sports but in Football the Southern Conf is 1-2 vs the Big Ten. Here is a cool link to research teams/conf all time records vs each other.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/index.php

When I was going through the results I saw the App State win over Michigan and the Wisconsin win over The Citadel. What game did I miss?

[MplsBison]

Why isn't it?

NCAA football, basketball, and baseball are all relative to each other and that is what matters. xnodx


What I mean is that championing a win over the Big 10 in baseball is like championing a win over the SEC in ice hockey.

[PaladinFan]

What I mean is that championing a win over the Big 10 in baseball is like championing a win over the SEC in ice hockey.

They were ranked. Furman beat #9 USC in baseball. Does that count?

[JohnStOnge]

Not sure about all sports but in Football the Southern Conf is 1-2 vs the Big Ten. Here is a cool link to research teams/conf all time records vs each other.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/index.php

Oh, Ok. That appears to be all time. I think it also probably is how teams currently IN conferences have done against teams currently IN other given conferences...not the actually conference vs. conference records based on how conferences were composed in the past. The reason I say that is because I looked at the Southland Conference vs. others and it has it as 273 - 360 vs. the Sun Belt (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southland/vs_conf.php ). The Sun Belt's only been around since 2001 and only 12 games have been played between the two leagues (8 - 4 Southland). But the large number of games makes sense if you think in terms of how teams in current conferences have done against teams currently in other conferences because five current Sun Belt programs were once in the Southland. Plus those five teams have been around a long time, are in the Southland area, and there were many occasions upon which they played teams in the Southland even when they weren't in the same conference.

BTW, though, if the numbers are reasonably accurate the only FCS league composed of teams that have generally torn teams now in the Southland up overall is the Big Sky. Against the programs in each other FCS league, current Southland teams have at the very least reasonably held their own in the overall series. I've noted that before. For some reason the Southland has always had a really tough time with that league.

[Saint3333]

New Hampshire beat Northwestern in football not long ago, and NDSU beat Minnesota last year in football, so it is not just the So Con by any means.

Yeah you're right that's pretty comparable to ASU beating the #5 ranked Michigan and Davidson beating the Big 10 bball champ in the Sweet 16.

It's a joke guys don't take everything so literally.

[MplsBison]

They were ranked. Furman beat #9 USC in baseball. Does that count?

Meh. My point is still that NCAA baseball is always going to be as small time as sports like softball, volleyball, etc. unless they extend the season into the summer.

[JohnStOnge]

Yeah you're right that's pretty comparable to ASU beating the #5 ranked Michigan and Davidson beating the Big 10 bball champ in the Sweet 16.

It's a joke guys don't take everything so literally.

Kind of a minor point because beating a top 25 FBS team that's in a BCS conference is something no FCS team had ever done but the constant reference to Michigan's #5 pre-season ranking does kind of create an exaggerated impression of the accomplishment level. They beat what turned out to be a borderline top 20 team (18th in one major poll, 19th in another, and 20th by the average of ranking systems). Great accomplishment, but in no way was it a top 5 caliber FBS team. People thought they would be but that thinking only lasted until the Wolverines played their first game and was a really distant memory by the time they finished their second one.

Again, though, I think everyone would agree it was the best I-A/FBS squad ever beaten by a I-AA/FCS team. Obviously there's not a FCS fan out there who doesn't dream about having their team do something like that.

[GannonFan]

Kind of a minor point because beating a top 25 FBS team that's in a BCS conference is something no FCS team had ever done but the constant reference to Michigan's #5 pre-season ranking does kind of create an exaggerated impression of the accomplishment level. They beat what turned out to be a borderline top 20 team (18th in one major poll, 19th in another, and 20th by the average of ranking systems). Great accomplishment, but in no way was it a top 5 caliber FBS team. People thought they would be but that thinking only lasted until the Wolverines played their first game and was a really distant memory by the time they finished their second one.

Again, though, I think everyone would agree it was the best I-A/FBS squad ever beaten by a I-AA/FCS team. Obviously there's not a FCS fan out there who doesn't dream about having their team do something like that.

Great point - Oregon's dismantling of Michigan (much more authoritative than the beating the Mountaineers put on them) just a week after the Appy St game erased the idea that Michigan was a very good team. But there's no doubt they were a legit top 25 team and there's no doubt that it was the best win by an FCS team over a FBS team ever (or I-AA over I-A).

[JohnStOnge]

Great point - Oregon's dismantling of Michigan (much more authoritative than the beating the Mountaineers put on them) just a week after the Appy St game erased the idea that Michigan was a very good team. But there's no doubt they were a legit top 25 team and there's no doubt that it was the best win by an FCS team over a FBS team ever (or I-AA over I-A).

I also wonder if Michigan wasn't a whole lot better at the end of the season than at the beginning. I know it's really hard to tell. But I just have a hard time believing the Michigan team that showed up to play Oregon would've beaten Florida like the Wolverines did. And they beat Florida, I think, a bit worse than the score indicated.

[RadMann]

Yeah you're right that's pretty comparable to ASU beating the #5 ranked Michigan and Davidson beating the Big 10 bball champ in the Sweet 16.

It's a joke guys don't take everything so literally.

The topic was Big 10 wins, if you now want to narrow it or redefine it, fine, but don't give me a bunch of cr@p about it.

[TheBisonator]

NDSU has beaten:

Wisconsin in mens hoops
Minnesota in football, womens hoops, softball and baseball
Iowa in baseball and softball

The only Big Ten trouble we have is with Minnesota in mens hoops.

[eaglesrthe1]

Kind of a minor point because beating a top 25 FBS team that's in a BCS conference is something no FCS team had ever done but the constant reference to Michigan's #5 pre-season ranking does kind of create an exaggerated impression of the accomplishment level. They beat what turned out to be a borderline top 20 team (18th in one major poll, 19th in another, and 20th by the average of ranking systems). Great accomplishment, but in no way was it a top 5 caliber FBS team. People thought they would be but that thinking only lasted until the Wolverines played their first game and was a really distant memory by the time they finished their second one.

Again, though, I think everyone would agree it was the best I-A/FBS squad ever beaten by a I-AA/FCS team. Obviously there's not a FCS fan out there who doesn't dream about having their team do something like that.

What you're referencing though is a practical impossibility then. Any team that loses to an FCS team wouldn't finish the season in the top five, even if they went undefeated the rest of the way. The loss to an FCS team would cost them too much.

[CID1990]

None of Davidson's wins thus far are upsets in my bracket.

Now, a win over KU would be.

[JohnStOnge]

What you're referencing though is a practical impossibility then. Any team that loses to an FCS team wouldn't finish the season in the top five, even if they went undefeated the rest of the way. The loss to an FCS team would cost them too much.

I don't know if that's true. But, in any case, Michigan went on to lose 39-7 to Oregon the next week. They were outgained 624 to 365 in total offense by the Ducks. Later they lost by 16 to Wisconsin and 11 to Ohio State. I think it was pretty clear that they were overrated at the start of the season. The big surprise is that they did what they did to Florida in the Bowl game.

It would've been interesting to see where they would've ended up if App State had been their only loss. If they'd have done that I think that if they wouldn't have ended up in the top 5 they'd have been close. Especially this past season where nobody in any major conference finished with fewer than 2 losses.

[JohnStOnge]

What you're referencing though is a practical impossibility then. Any team that loses to an FCS team wouldn't finish the season in the top five, even if they went undefeated the rest of the way. The loss to an FCS team would cost them too much.

The other thing is that I look at power ratings more than I do the polls anyway. Like I said, the "average" or "consensus" of power ratings would put Michigan at about 20. No way Michigan is in the conversation if you're talking about 2007-2008 top 5 FBS teams. And that'd be the case if they'd have beaten App State or not played them.

[Saint3333]

Kind of a minor point because beating a top 25 FBS team that's in a BCS conference is something no FCS team had ever done but the constant reference to Michigan's #5 pre-season ranking does kind of create an exaggerated impression of the accomplishment level. They beat what turned out to be a borderline top 20 team (18th in one major poll, 19th in another, and 20th by the average of ranking systems). Great accomplishment, but in no way was it a top 5 caliber FBS team. People thought they would be but that thinking only lasted until the Wolverines played their first game and was a really distant memory by the time they finished their second one.

Again, though, I think everyone would agree it was the best I-A/FBS squad ever beaten by a I-AA/FCS team. Obviously there's not a FCS fan out there who doesn't dream about having their team do something like that.


I don't make the rankings. At the time they were ranked #5 in the nation there's really no debating that. When you look it up 20 years from now it will still say ASU defeating the #5 ranked team in the FBS, Michigan.

[Gorilla89]

Just a few months removed from APP State defeating #5 and Big 10 pre-season favorite, Michigan. we have another SoCon member humbling the Big 10 - Davidson - 73 - Big 10 Champion Wisconsin - 56 --- Need I say more???

Name a conference or some decent YMCA teams who didn't OWN the Big 10 in 2007-2008.

[RadMann]

I don't make the rankings. At the time they were ranked #5 in the nation there's really no debating that. When you look it up 20 years from now it will still say ASU defeating the #5 ranked team in the FBS, Michigan.

True, but I agree with John's point. Had Michigan gone 0 for the rest of their games the point is well taken.

[JohnStOnge]

I don't make the rankings. At the time they were ranked #5 in the nation there's really no debating that. When you look it up 20 years from now it will still say ASU defeating the #5 ranked team in the FBS, Michigan.

Yes. I know it's common practice. But it's misleading. I actually had conversations about this with people touting Michigan as the true #1 in 1997 when they and both they and Nebraska went undefeated. Michigan proponents would talk about all the highly ranked teams they beat. But the problem was that it was one of those situations such that just about every one of those teams was overrated. They'd talk about blowing out "top 5 ranked" Colorado, for instance because Colorado was ranked there when they played them on opening day. But the Buffalos finished 5-6.

There's no debating that Michigan was ranked #5 when App State played them. But there's also no debating that, in being ranked there, they were way over rated.

[PaladinFan]

Yes. I know it's common practice. But it's misleading. I actually had conversations about this with people touting Michigan as the true #1 in 1997 when they and both they and Nebraska went undefeated. Michigan proponents would talk about all the highly ranked teams they beat. But the problem was that it was one of those situations such that just about every one of those teams was overrated. They'd talk about blowing out "top 5 ranked" Colorado, for instance because Colorado was ranked there when they played them on opening day. But the Buffalos finished 5-6.

There's no debating that Michigan was ranked #5 when App State played them. But there's also no debating that, in being ranked there, they were way over rated.

They did beat Florida. Can't really debate that.

What ASU did in Michigan was incredible. Michigan is not as bad as people thought. However, I don't see them doing the same thing to LSU. I can guar-an-tee you that the Tigers won't overlook them and get embarrassed by the national media.

[JohnStOnge]

They did beat Florida. Can't really debate that.

What ASU did in Michigan was incredible. Michigan is not as bad as people thought. .

Yep. As I said, they did beat what in retrospect appears to have been a borderline top 20 caliber FBS BCS league team. That is no small feat and nobody else in FCS has ever done it. All I'm saying is that Michigan clearly was not a top 5 caliber FBS in 2007.

I'm really not picking on App State. The general practice of fans and especially the media mentioning where an opponent was ranked when played instead of where they were ranked at the end is just one of my little pet peeves. I've gotten in conversations about it many times over many years. Where somebody was ranked to open the season is often virtually meaningless in terms of some kind of indication of how good they actually were.

Like LSU fans saying the Tigers played 8 ranked opponents in the 2007-2008 season. To me that exaggerates the difficulty of their schedule because only 5 of their opponents finished ranked. South Carolina was ranked 12th when LSU played them but finished 6-6. Clearly they weren't as good as people thought they were. Alabama was ranked 17th when the Tigers played it but ended up later losing to Louisiana Monroe and finishing 7-6. So why try to act like LSU played a top 25 caliber opponent when it played Alabama by mentioning the obviously erroneous ranking the Tide had at the time?

[eaglesrthe1]

The other thing is that I look at power ratings more than I do the polls anyway. Like I said, the "average" or "consensus" of power ratings would put Michigan at about 20. No way Michigan is in the conversation if you're talking about 2007-2008 top 5 FBS teams. And that'd be the case if they'd have beaten App State or not played them.

True. Conversly, you wouldn't be talking about them being "borderline top twenty" either. The fact that they did play and lose to ASU costs them ten spots, easy. You wouldn't have near that effect if they had simply played one game less, that being against ASU.

[SoCon48]

Yep. As I said, they did beat what in retrospect appears to have been a borderline top 20 caliber FBS BCS league team. That is no small feat and nobody else in FCS has ever done it. All I'm saying is that Michigan clearly was not a top 5 caliber FBS in 2007.

I'm really not picking on App State. The general practice of fans and especially the media mentioning where an opponent was ranked when played instead of where they were ranked at the end is just one of my little pet peeves. I've gotten in conversations about it many times over many years. Where somebody was ranked to open the season is often virtually meaningless in terms of some kind of indication of how good they actually were.

Like LSU fans saying the Tigers played 8 ranked opponents in the 2007-2008 season. To me that exaggerates the difficulty of their schedule because only 5 of their opponents finished ranked. South Carolina was ranked 12th when LSU played them but finished 6-6. Clearly they weren't as good as people thought they were. Alabama was ranked 17th when the Tigers played it but ended up later losing to Louisiana Monroe and finishing 7-6. So why try to act like LSU played a top 25 caliber opponent when it played Alabama by mentioning the obviously erroneous ranking the Tide had at the time?


Beating #9 Florida in Orlando ought to shoot the borderline top 20 designation all to hell. Going 9-4 with what was considered the 5th toughest home schedule in college football isn't so shabby. If Michigan had not chosen the wrong patsy, they would have been a very good 10-3.

[SoCon48]

I don't make the rankings. At the time they were ranked #5 in the nation there's really no debating that. When you look it up 20 years from now it will still say ASU defeating the #5 ranked team in the FBS, Michigan.

SoCon and App jealousy still runs rampant well into 2008.xeyebrowx

[AppGrad06]

Beating #9 Florida in Orlando ought to shoot the borderline top 20 designation all to hell. Going 9-4 with what was considered the 5th toughest home schedule in college football isn't so shabby. If Michigan had not chosen the wrong patsy, they would have been a very good 10-3.

They may have even been 11-2. In the Oregon game they barely showed up. Backlash from an embarrassing loss like that is pretty common and it's easy for a team to slide down hill after. Had they not lost to App they very well may have beaten Oregon, or at least made it more of a game, and Michigan would have made a BCS Bowl and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[PaladinFan]

They may have even been 11-2. In the Oregon game they barely showed up. Backlash from an embarrassing loss like that is pretty common and it's easy for a team to slide down hill after. Had they not lost to App they very well may have beaten Oregon, or at least made it more of a game, and Michigan would have made a BCS Bowl and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Disagree. Oregon beat the tar out of them. Had Dennis Dixon not gotten injured Oregon would have been playing in the National Championship.