11 Apply for Lamar's Head Coach Position

[centexguy]

LU football head coach position gathers 11 applications
By Chad Cooper, Sports Editor

With the overwhelming support of the students on the campus of Lamar University voting to pay an athletic fee each semester, the return of Cardinal football is in plain view.

The first snap could come as early as the 2009 season and Lamar posted the job opening for head football coach, which ended on March 21 and attracted just 11 names, then reposted the position on March 26.

The Examiner received the list of 11 names of coaches that applied for the position through a public information request form.

Randall Butler
-Was the tight ends coach at Southern Miss under Jeff Bowers, who was fired last season. Was also an assistant at SMU and Tulane.

Ronald Feldman
No information found.

Robert Hargrove
No information found.

James "Jim Bob" Helduser
-Former head coach at Southwest Texas State (Texas State) and also applied for head football coach at Class 5A Plano High School. Helduser was an assistant at Texas A&M under Dennis Franchione and also coached under Fran at TCU and Alabama. Has ties to Southeast Texas as he graduated from PN-G in 1975.

Larry Kennan
-Executive Director of the NFL Coaches Association. Former Lamar head football coach and left in 1981 to become an assistant coach for the Oakland Raiders. Some Lamar enthusiasts say after Kennan left, the football program was never the same.

Les Koenning
-Current offensive coordinator at South Alabama, who just started their football program and will not begin play until 2009. Spent five seasons under Dennis Franchione at Texas A&M as quarterbacks coach. Also was an offensive coach at Louisiana-Lafayette, Rice, Duke, Houston, TCU and Alabama. Has ties to Southeast Texas via Hamshire-Fannett.

Benson Norton
-Former assistant at Sam Houston State.

Kenith Pope
-Former assistant head coach at Texas A&M under Dennis Franchione. Also coached the offensive backs under Larry Kennan at Lamar University after coaching at Beaumont Hebert with Alex Durley. Pope was standout defensive back for the Oklahoma Sooners and played in the NFL.

Craig Stump
-Current head football coach at Beaumont West Brook. Also was the head coach for one year at Monsignor Kelly. Has college experience as an assistant at Mississippi State under Jackie Sherrill. He was also an assistant for three years at Tulane. Stump is a graduate of Port Arthur Thomas Jefferson.

Dennis Winston
-Former assistant at Kentucky State, Toledo and defensive line coach for the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League. Winston also played linebacker in the NFL for the Oakland Raiders, where he won two Super Bowls, and New Orleans Saints. Winston was also a collegiate standout for the Arkansas Razorbacks.

Raymond Woodard Jr.
-Head coach at Navarro Junior College in Corsicana. Was an assistant at Louisiana-Lafayette for 12 years and defensive coordinator in NFL-Europe. Was an All-American at Kilgore JC then transferred to the University of Texas. Drafted in the 8th round by the San Francisco 49ers and won a Super Bowl in 1986 with Denver.

http://www.theexaminer.com/npps/story.cfm?ID=2139

[TexasTerror]

Can't say I am too impressed (though I know more will apply)...of the list, I'd say Koenning, Norton (who knows this conference and is currently in San Marcos as an assistant for the Bobcats) and Pope are the best candidates who have applied...

[gokats85]

Feldman was the head coach at Klein Collins HS in Spring, TX. He built that program from scratch and made the playoffs in their 3rd varsity season in 2003. This is NOT an endorsement, just a little background info.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There was another article on this, and I added extra detail to the original article (shown in its entirety at the top of the thread). Two more applicants have more information on them.

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=lamar-head-coach-position-gets-11-applic&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[MACHIAVELLI]

Dennis Winston
-Former assistant at Kentucky State, Toledo and defensive line coach for the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League. Winston also played linebacker in the NFL for the Oakland Raiders, where he won two Super Bowls, and New Orleans Saints. Winston was also a collegiate standout for the Arkansas Razorbacks.



Dirt was DC at THE ICON under Eddie Robinson.

[McNeese_beat]

Dirt was DC at THE ICON under Eddie Robinson.

Anybody applying for the Lamar job who goes by "Dirt" has my full endorsement. You play your games in front of a big old refinery and you are coached by a man named "Dirt." That's a pretty good start. Next, you ship in some Oakland Raiders fans just to add to the ambiance...

[stevdock]

Interesting

[centexguy]

Things have been pretty quiet, but the latest rumor is that Dennis Franchione is still interested in the job, but he wants his son to take over in 2 or 3 years. Brad Franchione is the head coach at Blinn College (Blinn, TX). In their 2006 season, Franchione's second year as their coach, the team had a perfect 12-0 season and earned a national championship when they were awarded the number one ranking in the final NJCAA Football Poll of the 2006 season.

[TexasTerror]

Brad Franchione would be a great hire for Lamar. He's full of energy, obviously a fairly young guy with plenty of experience. He knows the state of Texas. I've been surprised we have not seen him hired at a Div II in the state, if not a Div I considering his success...

[TexasTerror]

Latest word out of the Lamar camp is that Ray Woodward will be their HC...he at one point coached for my namesake, the TexasTerror!

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/20/1217/full/6508.gif

http://www.navarrocollege.edu/athletics/football/images/Woodard.jpg

Woodard is a native of east Texas, born in Lufkin, Texas and attended Corrigan-Camden High School (Corrigan) participating in football, basketball, baseball and track. He was a two-time All-American at Kilgore College (1980, 1981), and a two year starter at The University of Texas in 1982-83. He was an eighth-round pick in 1984 of the San Diego Chargers, played five seasons for the Chargers, Broncos, and Chiefs and was a member of the 1986 Denver Bronco Super Bowl team. He began coaching in 1988 for eight seasons at Kilgore College and was TJCFC Champions in 1990. He coached professionally for Texas Terror, Arena Football, and spent four seasons as a defensive coordinator in NFL Europe. Woodard has been married for 25 years to Penne Woodard and they have one daughter, Jessica (21).

http://www.navarrocollege.edu/athletics/football/coaches.php

[McTailGator]

Latest word out of the Lamar camp is that Ray Woodward will be their HC...he at one point coached for my namesake, the TexasTerror!

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/20/1217/full/6508.gif

http://www.navarrocollege.edu/athletics/football/images/Woodard.jpg

Woodard is a native of east Texas, born in Lufkin, Texas and attended Corrigan-Camden High School (Corrigan) participating in football, basketball, baseball and track. He was a two-time All-American at Kilgore College (1980, 1981), and a two year starter at The University of Texas in 1982-83. He was an eighth-round pick in 1984 of the San Diego Chargers, played five seasons for the Chargers, Broncos, and Chiefs and was a member of the 1986 Denver Bronco Super Bowl team. He began coaching in 1988 for eight seasons at Kilgore College and was TJCFC Champions in 1990. He coached professionally for Texas Terror, Arena Football, and spent four seasons as a defensive coordinator in NFL Europe. Woodard has been married for 25 years to Penne Woodard and they have one daughter, Jessica (21).

http://www.navarrocollege.edu/athletics/football/coaches.php


Where is the Texas Terror arena team Located?

[TexasTerror]

Where is the Texas Terror arena team Located?

They were in Houston before becoming the Houston Thunderbears. In 2002, they were a 'barn-storming' team before going defunct following that season. They were only the TexasTerror for two or three seasons. ;)

Lamar's fan base is not happy about Woodward. They were hoping for a splash that would generate the funds necessary to shoot right to FBS after two, three years at FCS. They'll be stuck in the SLC and more than likely, reclaiming their spot at the bottom of the conference.

[McTailGator]

They were in Houston before becoming the Houston Thunderbears. In 2002, they were a 'barn-storming' team before going defunct following that season. They were only the TexasTerror for two or three seasons. ;)

Lamar's fan base is not happy about Woodward. They were hoping for a splash that would generate the funds necessary to shoot right to FBS after two, three years at FCS. They'll be stuck in the SLC and more than likely, reclaiming their spot at the bottom of the conference.


I've been to a couple of CopperHead Games at the Berry Center, and I've been to the Merril Center to watch my hometown Swashbucklers put up 80 something points on Katy.

Lot of former McNeese players in the IFL and the LC Swashbuckler team.



Those Lamar fans are really not getting football and how it really works. (;

They will never leave the SLC, Tubs is 1000 years old, and the Lamar President brought them back to the SLC for a reason. He is a McNeese Alumn and he has said all along that they made a huge mistake when they left to chase their basketball illusions.

Here is my challenge to all the SLC teams PAST and PRESENT.

Want to be a REAL FBS team...

xsmhx MATCH WHAT McNEESE HAS DONE IN THE SLC IN TERMS OF SLC FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS ;

:p TRY TO MATCH OUR FAN SUPPORT;

xeekx AND THEN SEE IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH A 20 TO 30 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGET TO PLAY IN CUSA OR THE WAC.



THAN YOU CAN CALL YOURSELF A TRUE FBS PROGRAM. HELL HALF THE TEAMS IN THE WAC, AND CUSA DON'T EVEN MATCH ALL THREE OF THOSE

[UCABEARS75]

I've been to a couple of CopperHead Games at the Berry Center, and I've been to the Merril Center to watch my hometown Swashbucklers put up 80 something points on Katy.

Lot of former McNeese players in the IFL and the LC Swashbuckler team.



Those Lamar fans are really not getting football and how it really works. (;

They will never leave the SLC, Tubs is 1000 years old, and the Lamar President brought them back to the SLC for a reason. He is a McNeese Alumn and he has said all along that they made a huge mistake when they left to chase their basketball illusions.

Here is my challenge to all the SLC teams PAST and PRESENT.

Want to be a REAL FBS team...

xsmhx MATCH WHAT McNEESE HAS DONE IN THE SLC IN TERMS OF SLC FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS ;

:p TRY TO MATCH OUR FAN SUPPORT;

xeekx AND THEN SEE IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH A 20 TO 30 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGET TO PLAY IN CUSA OR THE WAC.



THAN YOU CAN CALL YOURSELF A TRUE FBS PROGRAM. HELL HALF THE TEAMS IN THE WAC, AND CUSA DON'T EVEN MATCH ALL THREE OF THOSE

Agreed and well said Mc!!

[jcf5445]

I've been to a couple of CopperHead Games at the Berry Center, and I've been to the Merril Center to watch my hometown Swashbucklers put up 80 something points on Katy.

Lot of former McNeese players in the IFL and the LC Swashbuckler team.



Those Lamar fans are really not getting football and how it really works. (;

They will never leave the SLC, Tubs is 1000 years old, and the Lamar President brought them back to the SLC for a reason. He is a McNeese Alumn and he has said all along that they made a huge mistake when they left to chase their basketball illusions.

Here is my challenge to all the SLC teams PAST and PRESENT.

Want to be a REAL FBS team...

xsmhx MATCH WHAT McNEESE HAS DONE IN THE SLC IN TERMS OF SLC FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS ;

:p TRY TO MATCH OUR FAN SUPPORT;

xeekx AND THEN SEE IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH A 20 TO 30 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGET TO PLAY IN CUSA OR THE WAC.



THAN YOU CAN CALL YOURSELF A TRUE FBS PROGRAM. HELL HALF THE TEAMS IN THE WAC, AND CUSA DON'T EVEN MATCH ALL THREE OF THOSE


I'll represent the teams of SLC PAST (FBS defections only) just for the sake of doing so.

1. You said they needed to match what McNeese State has done in terms of SLC Championships:

SLC Champions from 1973 to 2000 (the last year before the last team moved up)
1973 Louisiana Tech
1974 Louisiana Tech
1975 Arkansas State
1976 Louisiana-Lafayette, McNeese State
1977 Louisiana Tech
1978 Louisiana Tech
1979 McNeese State
1980 McNeese State
1981 Texas-Arlington
1982 Louisiana Tech
1983 Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas
1984 Louisiana Tech
1985 Arkansas State
1986 Arkansas State
1987 Louisiana-Monroe
1988 Northwestern State
1989 Stephen F. Austin State
1990 Louisiana-Monroe
1991 McNeese State
1992 Louisiana-Monroe
1993 McNeese State
1994 North Texas
1995 McNeese State
1996 Troy
1997 McNeese State, Northwestern State
1998 Northwestern State
1999 Stephen F. Austin State
2000 Troy

Totals:
Louisiana Tech - 6 in 14 seasons = 0.428
McNeese State - 6 in 28 seasons = 0.214
Louisiana-Monroe - 4 in 14 seasons = 0.286
Arkansas State - 3 in 14 seasons = 0.214
Troy - 2 in 5 seasons = 0.400
North Texas - 2 in 13 seasons = 0.154
Louisiana-Lafayette - 1 in 9 seasons = 0.111

From what I can see, regardless of what may have happened in head-to-head matchups or in-between years, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana-Monroe, and Troy out-performed McNeese State during their years in the conference (going back to '73). Arkansas State had identical success during that time. The only FBS defections from the SLC that McNeese State out-performed were Louisiana-Lafayette and North Texas.

In addition, McNeese has 2 championship game appearances in 35 years in both D2 and D1-AA. Louisiana Tech had 2 appearances with a D2 championship, Louisiana-Monroe had 1 appearance with a D1-AA championship, and Arkansas State had 1 appearance. We could go into playoff appearances per seasons in the SLC, but it won't be much different than the conference championships per season.

2. You said they need to try and match McNeese State's fan support.

2007 average attendance figures and win/loss record:
Troy 20,479 8-4
Louisiana Tech 18,562 5-7
North Texas 17,734 2-10
Arkansas State 17,040 5-7
Louisiana-Lafayette 16,651 3-9
Louisiana-Monroe 16,651 6-6
McNeese State 12,819 11-1

All FBS defections averaged more fans per game than McNeese State did during an undefeated run to the postseason. Of those defections, only Troy had an overall winning record. I think it should be noted also that none of these teams have what could be considered excellent attendance, as McNeese played before the fewest empty seats with a percent capacity at about 74%, which isn't exactly great.

3. For one, Louisiana Tech is in the WAC which costs them tons in travel expenses, and they were passed over by the C-USA for UTEP during the last expansion. I don't think being in the WAC really helps them with recruiting or exposure. As for the other teams, why waste money to join the WAC or C-USA when neither was much more competitive from top-to-bottom than the Sun Belt was last year? Florida Atlantic didn't have much trouble disposing of Memphis, who finished in a 4-way tie for second in the C-USA, and Troy was probably a better team than FAU despite the head-to-head loss in the season finale. Not to mention that the Sun Belt has an excellent foot print across the Southeast.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. I have no ties to any of those schools, but I tend to stick up for them a little bit because they weren't afraid to put their winning traditions at risk when they moved up to the highest level. Has it paid off for them? I don't know, there are many perspectives to take and everyone has their own opinion. But like I've said before, there will never be another success story like Boise State if nobody else tries.

[patssle]

MATCH WHAT McNEESE HAS DONE IN THE SLC IN TERMS OF SLC FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS ;

SLC championships has nothing to do with being a true FBS team. The SLC champions can't even beat good FCS programs as of late.

SLC is weak right now. No SLC team can compete at the FBS level right now.

[already123]

dont recognize any of the applicants thus far. Who are supposed to be the 'standouts'??

[TexasTerror]

dont recognize any of the applicants thus far. Who are supposed to be the 'standouts'??

There are none. That is why Lamar is not doing a great job of impressing anyone. I think their fan base will only be motivated by a splash. You can't even tell they are ready to dive at this time...

[Retro]

I'll represent the teams of SLC PAST (FBS defections only) just for the sake of doing so.

1. You said they needed to match what McNeese State has done in terms of SLC Championships:

SLC Champions from 1973 to 2000 (the last year before the last team moved up)
1973 Louisiana Tech
1974 Louisiana Tech
1975 Arkansas State
1976 Louisiana-Lafayette, McNeese State
1977 Louisiana Tech
1978 Louisiana Tech
1979 McNeese State
1980 McNeese State
1981 Texas-Arlington
1982 Louisiana Tech
1983 Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas
1984 Louisiana Tech
1985 Arkansas State
1986 Arkansas State
1987 Louisiana-Monroe
1988 Northwestern State
1989 Stephen F. Austin State
1990 Louisiana-Monroe
1991 McNeese State
1992 Louisiana-Monroe
1993 McNeese State
1994 North Texas
1995 McNeese State
1996 Troy
1997 McNeese State, Northwestern State
1998 Northwestern State
1999 Stephen F. Austin State
2000 Troy

Totals:
Louisiana Tech - 6 in 14 seasons = 0.428
McNeese State - 6 in 28 seasons = 0.214
Louisiana-Monroe - 4 in 14 seasons = 0.286
Arkansas State - 3 in 14 seasons = 0.214
Troy - 2 in 5 seasons = 0.400
North Texas - 2 in 13 seasons = 0.154
Louisiana-Lafayette - 1 in 9 seasons = 0.111

From what I can see, regardless of what may have happened in head-to-head matchups or in-between years, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana-Monroe, and Troy out-performed McNeese State during their years in the conference (going back to '73). Arkansas State had identical success during that time. The only FBS defections from the SLC that McNeese State out-performed were Louisiana-Lafayette and North Texas.

In addition, McNeese has 2 championship game appearances in 35 years in both D2 and D1-AA. Louisiana Tech had 2 appearances with a D2 championship, Louisiana-Monroe had 1 appearance with a D1-AA championship, and Arkansas State had 1 appearance. We could go into playoff appearances per seasons in the SLC, but it won't be much different than the conference championships per season.

2. You said they need to try and match McNeese State's fan support.

2007 average attendance figures and win/loss record:
Troy 20,479 8-4
Louisiana Tech 18,562 5-7
North Texas 17,734 2-10
Arkansas State 17,040 5-7
Louisiana-Lafayette 16,651 3-9
Louisiana-Monroe 16,651 6-6
McNeese State 12,819 11-1

All FBS defections averaged more fans per game than McNeese State did during an undefeated run to the postseason. Of those defections, only Troy had an overall winning record. I think it should be noted also that none of these teams have what could be considered excellent attendance, as McNeese played before the fewest empty seats with a percent capacity at about 74%, which isn't exactly great.

3. For one, Louisiana Tech is in the WAC which costs them tons in travel expenses, and they were passed over by the C-USA for UTEP during the last expansion. I don't think being in the WAC really helps them with recruiting or exposure. As for the other teams, why waste money to join the WAC or C-USA when neither was much more competitive from top-to-bottom than the Sun Belt was last year? Florida Atlantic didn't have much trouble disposing of Memphis, who finished in a 4-way tie for second in the C-USA, and Troy was probably a better team than FAU despite the head-to-head loss in the season finale. Not to mention that the Sun Belt has an excellent foot print across the Southeast.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. I have no ties to any of those schools, but I tend to stick up for them a little bit because they weren't afraid to put their winning traditions at risk when they moved up to the highest level. Has it paid off for them? I don't know, there are many perspectives to take and everyone has their own opinion. But like I've said before, there will never be another success story like Boise State if nobody else tries.

Mcneese has 7 SLC titles in that time frame, not 6 per your count.. Mcneese also has 3 bowl appearances in the INDEPENDENCE Bowl in 76, 79 and 80. Mcneese has 12 titles overall from present back to Gulf States conf days.. Attendance at Mcneese hasn't been the same since Hurricane of 2005, so i wouldn't use the last couple of years to show true avg over every year... Before then, we were 15,000+ on an avg yr..

Also, we all know most lower tier FBS teams have fudged actual attendance numbers to stay above the previous 15,000 mandatory as noted, but not enforced by the NCAA to stay Div I - FBS. I would also guess that Mcneese takes more fans on the road than most of those teams, espcially UL's and Troy..

[jcf5445]

Mcneese has 7 SLC titles in that time frame, not 6 per your count.. Mcneese also has 3 bowl appearances in the INDEPENDENCE Bowl in 76, 79 and 80. Mcneese has 12 titles overall from present back to Gulf States conf days.. Attendance at Mcneese hasn't been the same since Hurricane of 2005, so i wouldn't use the last couple of years to show true avg over every year... Before then, we were 15,000+ on an avg yr..

Also, we all know most lower tier FBS teams have fudged actual attendance numbers to stay above the previous 15,000 mandatory as noted, but not enforced by the NCAA to stay Div I - FBS. I would also guess that Mcneese takes more fans on the road than most of those teams, espcially UL's and Troy..

That's my fault, I miscounted one title, but that hardly affects my argument. The point is that those former SLC teams had no trouble winning SLC championships and DI-AA playoff games while in the SLC. They gave up being yearly contenders to take a shot at DI-A. They left their comfort zone and have taken some lumps. If you ask me that's no reason to mock or heckle, because the same thing would probably happen to McNeese if they moved up under those same circumstances. I'm not an advocate of any team moving up to FBS unless they simply choose to do so; the McNeese's, Montana's, Delaware's, etc. should remain FCS for as long as they choose to do so. However, I will applaud any team for trying to compete at the highest level, whether they succeed or not. Hey, at least they stepped out of their comfort zone and tried.

[McNeese_beat]

That's my fault, I miscounted one title, but that hardly affects my argument. The point is that those former SLC teams had no trouble winning SLC championships and DI-AA playoff games while in the SLC. They gave up being yearly contenders to take a shot at DI-A. They left their comfort zone and have taken some lumps. If you ask me that's no reason to mock or heckle, because the same thing would probably happen to McNeese if they moved up under those same circumstances. I'm not an advocate of any team moving up to FBS unless they simply choose to do so; the McNeese's, Montana's, Delaware's, etc. should remain FCS for as long as they choose to do so. However, I will applaud any team for trying to compete at the highest level, whether they succeed or not. Hey, at least they stepped out of their comfort zone and tried.

I think that's exactly a reason why to "mock or hackle" the schools who have moved up. Did they really improve their athletic programs and, specifically, their football programs by moving up? Did the level of improvement equal the increase in costs?

I would certainly say that in the case of the former SLC teams in the Sun Belt, the hard evidence does not point to it. I see no evidence to suggest that being an FBS program has made the basketball and baseball programs in the SBC better than the SLC. Generally speaking, the schools that were good at those sports when they were in the SLC (or in other conferences) remain good now. And as a conference, I don't think the Sun Belt stands out significantly in basketball and baseball over the SLC (which kicked the Sun Belt's butt on the court last season), the OVC, the Southern, etc. and certainly not the Colonial or the Missouri Valley, two leagues that heavy a lot of FCS football schools on their basketball/baseball rosters.

As far as football, the SBC has given itself some limited bowl opportunities and limited TV chances. But again, at what expense? It's 22 more scholarships, considerably more travel, plus the cost of adding women's sports to offset the scholarship increase. So when you talk about the increase in revenue, let's put it in context: Does your increased revenue equal the increased costs?

So you increase your expenses from the extra scholarships and extra sports. You put yourself at a level where the salary demands are higher. You put yourself in a league where travel is more (especially in the case of Louisiana Tech in the WAC). You put yourself in a league where, let's face it, the rivalries mean less because you are playing against mid-majors that your fans don't relate to (do fans at North Texas really get excited about Florida Atlantic?). And what do you have to show for it?

More poignantly...what have you done that you couldn't have done for less money and with less fund-raising pressure as an FCS school?

My point is this: You start to see separation from the mainstream of FCS once you get up to Conference USA or higher, schools with significantly higher budgets and available resources to meet those budget demands than most of the schools that are moving up from the FBS. To me, the litmus test is just that: Can we realistically achieve the budgetary levels of a University of Houston or a Memphis? If no, the FCS is probably a more cost-effective model UNTIL YOU REACH THAT POINT.

It's one thing to be ambitious. It's another thing to prematurely pursue those ambitions.

[centexguy]

Let's clear up a few things here since Texas Terror likes to distort the facts. Not Billy Tubbs or anyone else associated with Lamar has stated that Lamar plans to go FBS. A few fans on one of Lamar's message boards are pushing hard for Lamar to go FBS as soon as possible, so saying Lamar's fan base wants to go FBS is being dishonest.

As far as comparing the SLC to the SBC, I saw Troy play Oklahoma State on ESPN last year on a Friday night. The only time you'll see a SLC football team on TV is during the playoffs. This year the SBC had two teams in the NCAA tourney with WKU making it to the sweet 16. The SLC was 1 and done. That translates into a lot more money for the SBC than the SLC. In baseball, the same thing. Just look at the athletic budgets of the schools between the conferences and you tell me who's doing better. We can all pretend that the SLC and the SBC are about equal but in reality each year the SBC keeps distancing itself from the SLC.

[TexasTerror]

As far as comparing the SLC to the SBC, I saw Troy play Oklahoma State on ESPN last year on a Friday night. The only time you'll see a SLC football team on TV is during the playoffs.

That's incorrect. You may want to actually turn your television on. SLC games in recent years during the regular season have been on FoxSW, Fox College Sports, CSTV (now CBS College Sports), ESPNU and Cox Sports.


This year the SBC had two teams in the NCAA tourney with WKU making it to the sweet 16. The SLC was 1 and done. That translates into a lot more money for the SBC than the SLC. In baseball, the same thing. Just look at the athletic budgets of the schools between the conferences and you tell me who's doing better. We can all pretend that the SLC and the SBC are about equal but in reality each year the SBC keeps distancing itself from the SLC.

Not going to disagree with you there. There are a few schools on the lower end of the SBC who would have a hard time cracking the top tier of the SLC though (UALR comes to mind). The SBC as a whole is a fast improving conference and we got to recall they got a late *bump* due to football being so young for the conference.

[McNeese_beat]

Let's clear up a few things here since Texas Terror likes to distort the facts. Not Billy Tubbs or anyone else associated with Lamar has stated that Lamar plans to go FBS. A few fans on one of Lamar's message boards are pushing hard for Lamar to go FBS as soon as possible, so saying Lamar's fan base wants to go FBS is being dishonest.

As far as comparing the SLC to the SBC, I saw Troy play Oklahoma State on ESPN last year on a Friday night. The only time you'll see a SLC football team on TV is during the playoffs. This year the SBC had two teams in the NCAA tourney with WKU making it to the sweet 16. The SLC was 1 and done. That translates into a lot more money for the SBC than the SLC. In baseball, the same thing. Just look at the athletic budgets of the schools between the conferences and you tell me who's doing better. We can all pretend that the SLC and the SBC are about equal but in reality each year the SBC keeps distancing itself from the SLC.

You're going to define success as one game by Troy on TV against Oklahoma State? OK. To each his own. UL-Lafayette is still hanging its hat on a home win over Texas A&M some 10-12 years ago. Hasn't had another big win since. Good luck waiting on the next one.

Put it like this: The Sun Belt suffers far more deflating losses to Southland teams than it gets TV games against the OSUs of the world.

But as far as

This year, the SBC was 4-7 (or something like that, I'm going off memory) against the Southland in basketball. The SBC has won a game in the NCAA tournament once this decade. So has the Southland.

The SBC got two in the tournament this year based on Western Kentucky and South Alabama having two great years simultaneously. Prior to this year, the league had gone 12 straight years of one team in going one-and-done, results very similar to the Southland. You are going to say the Sun Belt has separated itself from the SLC because one year where it finally got two teams in?

In fact, the evidence would imply that the emphasis on football may have hurt the Sun Belt. The league was a much stronger basketball conference in the 70s, 80s and early 1990s before it started playing football.

<<Just look at the athletic budgets of the schools between the conferences and you tell me who's doing better.>>
Go back to the previous post I made. How does the athletic income compare to the athletic expenses? Certainly, there are some more income opportunities to being a low-end FBS member. But more certainly, there is increased travel, more scholarships, more programs that you must support that don't generate revenue, etc.

[patssle]

The SBC has won a game in the NCAA tournament once this decade. So has the Southland.

Actually the SLC has won 2 NCAA tourney games...if you include the lame 65th team game.


The league was a much stronger basketball conference in the 70s, 80s and early 1990s before it started playing football.


Can't really compare then and now due to membership turnover.

[McNeese_beat]

Actually the SLC has won 2 NCAA tourney games...if you include the lame 65th team game.

Ha. The only people who count that game are the people who win that game.xsmiley_wix

[patssle]

Ha. The only people who count that game are the people who win that game.xsmiley_wix

Agreed. As I said...its the lame game ;)

[McTailGator]

Let's clear up a few things here since Texas Terror likes to distort the facts. Not Billy Tubbs or anyone else associated with Lamar has stated that Lamar plans to go FBS. A few fans on one of Lamar's message boards are pushing hard for Lamar to go FBS as soon as possible, so saying Lamar's fan base wants to go FBS is being dishonest.

As far as comparing the SLC to the SBC, I saw Troy play Oklahoma State on ESPN last year on a Friday night. The only time you'll see a SLC football team on TV is during the playoffs. This year the SBC had two teams in the NCAA tourney with WKU making it to the sweet 16. The SLC was 1 and done. That translates into a lot more money for the SBC than the SLC. In baseball, the same thing. Just look at the athletic budgets of the schools between the conferences and you tell me who's doing better. We can all pretend that the SLC and the SBC are about equal but in reality each year the SBC keeps distancing itself from the SLC.



You can not equate budgets to WHO's doing better....

Hell, that why they play the games.


Wanna see who's doing better,

Look at the SLC vs SBC football head to head matchups.

McNeese is holding our own at 3-0 vs the BELCH.xnonox



And this is a football board, we don't really give a rats ass about basketball. But you know we have some Nova fans and some G-Town fans that might want to discuss the great basketball history of the belch if you'd like.



As far as TV

We do have a TV package where most SLC teams are on just about every week now. As is most D-I programs. Hell I cathc about 80 sports channels. I even found an all womens Pro FB league the the other day .

Maybe UL-Lafayette should try to join their league and fight for a championship.

WE PLAY TO WIN.

[TexasTerror]

Lamar may have a coach in the bag tonight, if not on Friday. It's going to be Ray Woodward. That's got to be disappointing for the Cards fans. One of the biggest decisions in school athletic history and they go JUCO head coach...

http://www.corsicanadailysun.com/sports/local_story_136142405.html?keyword=topstory

[TexasTerror]

You can not equate budgets to WHO's doing better....Hell, that why they play the games.

CenTexGuy is apparently learning as are the rest in the Cardinal camp. If we went on budget alone, the Bobcats of San Marcos would be doing laps around the conference, yet they seem to have held Lamar's place in the Southland Conference much of their time in the conference. xrulesx

[centexguy]

CenTexGuy is apparently learning as are the rest in the Cardinal camp. If we went on budget alone, the Bobcats of San Marcos would be doing laps around the conference, yet they seem to have held Lamar's place in the Southland Conference much of their time in the conference. xrulesx

I didn't say athletic budgets equate to wins. My point was that the average Sunbelt school has a larger athletic budget than the average Southland school. Why is that? Because they have better fan support, better TV package, better payoffs from the NCAA (in football and basketball), etc.

I'm not a big fan of the Sunbelt, I was just saying based on media exposure, athletic budgets, etc., they are a step up from the SLC. It doesn't have to be that way and I wish the SLC would take steps to correct that.

BTW, most Lamar fans are happy that football is returning and that Lamar will finally name a head coach. AD Billy Tubbs had never mentioned he was after a big-name coach. His basketball hires have all been assistant coaches who can recruit real well so he must feel Woodard will be able to do the same for football. Only time will tell, but as of Thursday night no announcement has been made.

[TexasTerror]

Woodward a finalist...

Navarro coach a finalist for Lamar football post
By RUSH WOOD, The Enterprise
05/16/2008
BEAUMONT - Navarro College football coach Ray Woodard knows he's a finalist at Lamar University.

If he's the only finalist, he's not telling.

"This is not a done deal," Woodard said emphatically. "I don't know if I'm No. 1. I have to like my chances, but nothing's been finalized."

Navarro President Richard Sanchez told his hometown newspaper, the Corsicana Daily Sun, that Woodard was in the running at Lamar - and that news on Woodard's status could come soon.

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19694907&BRD=2287&PAG=461&dept_id=583964&rfi=6

[patssle]

We do have a TV package where most SLC teams are on just about every week now.

We do? Where?

[TexasTerror]

We do? Where?

Between CST and FCS/FSN -- the SLC had one game on TV just about every week of the season.

[TexasTerror]

Entertaining discussion on Woodward on Smoaky's in a which former Navarro player and coach even criticizes the move.

http://www.smoaky.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=82326

[TexasTerror]

Official release on the hiring of Lamar's new head coach...and what do you know? He's a SAM HOUSTON STATE alum!

Ray Woodard Named Head Football Coach At Lamar University
East Texas native has 20 years of coaching experience
May 19, 2008

Ray Woodard, a 20-year coaching veteran with 12 years of college experience, was named the eighth football coach at Lamar University by President James Simmons and Athletic Director Billy Tubbs on Monday.

"Ray Woodard was the best fit for what we needed at Lamar University," Tubbs said. "He is a great coach, he will recruit quality student-athletes and abide by the rules and regulations of Lamar University. He has played and coached at the highest levels of football."

"It is very exciting to be named the head football coach at Lamar University," Woodard said. "This is a great opportunity and the future is bright for Lamar football."

http://lamarcardinals.cstv.com/genrel/051908aaa.html

[TexasTerror]

AP Article...the title is not too flattering...

Lamar hires junior college coach to lead football's return
Associated Press

BEAUMONT — Lamar has hired junior college coach Ray Woodard to lead the football program's return from a 21-year hiatus in 2010.

Navarro College went 9-3 last year and made its first postseason appearance in six years in Woodard's only season as head coach. Woodard, who was hired Monday, was Navarro's defensive coordinator the previous two seasons.

The 46-year-old former Texas Longhorn was the head coach at Burton High School in 2004-05 and spent time as an assistant in the NFL's European league. He was drafted by San Diego in 1984 and had other NFL stops in Kansas City and Denver. He played in the 1987 Super Bowl with the Broncos.

Texas State University System regents in February approved an athletics fee designed to fund football's return to Lamar. The program has been dormant since 1989.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5790479.html

[centexguy]

From local sportswriter Bob West:


He came highly recommended by a couple of his former NFL coaches — Dan Reeves and Gary Kubiak. Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Philips knows him well enough to think he’s a great choice.

Also:


Long time Bum Phillips assistant John Paul Young, who is part of a search firm that matches coaches with schools, gives the Woodard choice two thumbs up. His familiarity with Woodard includes having coached him with the Kansas City Chiefs and hired him in the Arena League and NFL Europe.

“I am so happy they went with him,” said Young. “If they had used us, we couldn’t have picked a better guy or a better coach for Lamar. One of the things we told Billy Tubbs was that he didn’t need a Dennis Franchione or one of those big name guys who would have just been passing through.

“What Lamar needs is somebody who can recruit and is willing to get down in the trenches and work, and Raymond will do that. I’ll tell you something else. He knows the difference between a player and a should be. He just has a knack for recognizing if a kid can play, and that is so important.”

Since their first game isn't until 2010 it's going to be a while until we know if this was a good choice or not, but it's nice knowing football is back at Lamar after 19 years.

http://www.panews.com/sportsbobwest/local_story_140211259.html?keyword=topstory

[TexasTerror]

Since their first game isn't until 2010 it's going to be a while until we know if this was a good choice or not, but it's nice knowing football is back at Lamar after 19 years.

We won't know if this was a good choice until LU returns to the Southland Conference in 2012. If they come any earlier than that, as it seems Billy Tubbs would like to do, that will be the first major mistake. Tubbs says he's going to do everything right. Well, coming into the SLC in 2011 would be doing things right.

[TexasTerror]

According to the Beaumont Enterprise and it seems the Port Arthur News, both newspapers will call Lamar's sub-division of participation as I-AA. This is a shame for a program will need to educate their fans on the proper subdivision of play and what can happen for a successful team at this subdivision.

With all this 'I-AA' rubbish out there in the Southeast Texas community, the media has officially opened themselves to being recruited against in other sports as I-AA program (one of the major reasons behind the name change) while other programs have media and athletic department officials working to promote the proper playing level of the school. Sure, I may be taking it "too far", but this is one of my biggest pet peeves.

[McNeese_beat]

According to the Beaumont Enterprise and it seems the Port Arthur News, both newspapers will call Lamar's sub-division of participation as I-AA. This is a shame for a program will need to educate their fans on the proper subdivision of play and what can happen for a successful team at this subdivision.

With all this 'I-AA' rubbish out there in the Southeast Texas community, the media has officially opened themselves to being recruited against in other sports as I-AA program (one of the major reasons behind the name change) while other programs have media and athletic department officials working to promote the proper playing level of the school. Sure, I may be taking it "too far", but this is one of my biggest pet peeves.

What's the difference (besides the fact that one is the current term and one is the former term) between the connotation of FCS and the connotation of I-AA? Both imply a subdivision of Division I. If one didn't get that I-AA was Division I, neither will they be "education" by changing the term to FCS.

It's bad for the papers to get the terms wrong, but it's hardly a detriment. Hell, the Chronicle would probably call it D-II.