Researching: What does it take to build a strong FCS ahtletics program?

[ScottyDoesKnow]

In my second visit to TSU (the school I'm enrolling in this fall) I managed to bump into TSU's athletics director by accident when she overheard my girlfriend and I talking about Title IX and what could be done to help TSU improve it's athletics program with conforming to Title IX. It just so happened that she was walking right in front of us at the time. I'd never met TSU's AD until then. It was cool too. She challenged me to come up with some awesome ideas to improve TSU athletics. She said she wants to meet with me and discuss my ideas and hopes I would consider becoming a student ambassador.

Well, I have a plan that involves "1-A" menality hoping it could work at an FCS school. However, I think it's important to also try to model after an athletics program at an FCS school to get idea on how to become successful not just in one sport, but overall in every sport and improve facilities with the limitations that FCS schools have when compared to those in 1-A.

Three schools I look at for TSU to try to model after are Appalachian State, University of Delaware, and University of Montana--three very successful schools in three completely different locations. Those schools are doing something right. I would kind of like to get an idea on how those particular schools operate. Where do they get their funds from? What kind of numbers are they looking at in student athletes on scholarship with men versus women?

I believe any school that is willing to put forth the effort can be successful. The AD and their staff can only do so much. The alumni can only do so much. I think it's important for the students to become more involved in athletics in college, and I think that's where TSU can go to make up alot of ground. If the students realized how important it was to be athetically-minded and pursue physical fiteness, I believe they'll live longer, happier lives and feel that any dollars they put forth toward athletics and activity at college would be money worth spent.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Oh that TSU. xlolx

Just kidding but seriously, good luck with your "Big Blue" experience!

[danefan]

Coaching (which includes being a great recruiter)
Coaching
Coaching
Stadium
Fan base to fill that stadium
Money

[Franks Tanks]

You are forgetting one important point here. TSU doesnt have they money to compete at the level you are advocating unlkess they catch lightining in a bottle. You will not generate fan interest and visibility unless you win. Winning takes money, unless you somehow stumble upon a great coach who can lead you to the promise land relatively cheaply. For this model see App State xrulesx

[813Jag]

In my second visit to TSU (the school I'm enrolling in this fall) I managed to bump into TSU's athletics director by accident when she overheard my girlfriend and I talking about Title IX and what could be done to help TSU improve it's athletics program with conforming to Title IX. It just so happened that she was walking right in front of us at the time. I'd never met TSU's AD until then. It was cool too. She challenged me to come up with some awesome ideas to improve TSU athletics. She said she wants to meet with me and discuss my ideas and hopes I would consider becoming a student ambassador.

Well, I have a plan that involves "1-A" menality hoping it could work at an FCS school. However, I think it's important to also try to model after an athletics program at an FCS school to get idea on how to become successful not just in one sport, but overall in every sport and improve facilities with the limitations that FCS schools have when compared to those in 1-A.

Three schools I look at for TSU to try to model after are Appalachian State, University of Delaware, and University of Montana--three very successful schools in three completely different locations. Those schools are doing something right. I would kind of like to get an idea on how those particular schools operate. Where do they get their funds from? What kind of numbers are they looking at in student athletes on scholarship with men versus women?

I believe any school that is willing to put forth the effort can be successful. The AD and their staff can only do so much. The alumni can only do so much. I think it's important for the students to become more involved in athletics in college, and I think that's where TSU can go to make up alot of ground. If the students realized how important it was to be athetically-minded and pursue physical fiteness, I believe they'll live longer, happier lives and feel that any dollars they put forth toward athletics and activity at college would be money worth spent.
For an outsider's perspective, my first issuse is the football stadium, I know the Merritt Classic draws well, but how's the attendance for conference games? Also a move up would hurt since TSU has three big classics (Atlanta Football Classic, Southern Heritage Classic, and John Merritt Classic)

[Grizzaholic]

Score lots of points, then you get the fan base, then you get the money, then you get a bigger stadium, then you get better coaches and players, but inorder to score lots of points you have to get coaches and players.

Must be one of those vicious cycles.

[CCU97]

Just doing a quick look at the three FCS schools you listed.... they all have one thing in common...they are good football schools....App St has had a good basketball program the last two years and good track and cross country teams....but no program other than football to really write home about for any lenght of time besides football....UM..pretty much the same...a little success in basketball and CC and track....UD a little better in other areas....you state you want success in more than one sport yet the schools you

[already123]

Of course funding has everything to do with everything now-a-days....but most schools dont have that luxury.

I would say that the first thing you must do is learn how to put some winning seasons together. Good coaches are hard to come by, a good STAFF is even harder.

next, CREATE a fan base. Fan support is paramount to building a successful program year after year......people want to play in front of/play for a community who supports that school.

Now comes the money...when you win and have fan support, financial support tags along.

Now here it is up in the air. I feel beating the bigger schools does wonders for a program

There isnt a set blueprint, but this should work.


Oh yea, title IX is a piece of ****

[DFW HOYA]

The question was not what it took to develop a good I-AA team, but a program. It's a larger question and one which involves resources far beyond football. (This is a continuing problem for those HBCU's which dump all their money into football and marching band and wonder why they're always a step short of other schools.)

[andy7171]

Oh yea, title IX is a piece of ****
I used to think so too, especially after it caused Towson to drop football scholarships in 1995. ...then I had three girls. :D


Those three schools you mentioned also have something else in common, nothing in the vicinity to compete with for the sport fans attention.

[already123]

I used to think so too, especially after it caused Towson to drop football scholarships in 1995. ...then I had three girls. :D


Those three schools you mentioned also have something else in common, nothing in the vicinity to compete with for the sport fans attention.




Very good point. Being a follower of the Big Sky and Big Sky teams...we all know how the ENTIRE state and surrounding areas support the Griz or MSU

There are a lot of people who cant locate Delaware on a map...

App State would be the only exception, but after visiting Boone this past fall I see why

[MplsBison]

I used to think so too, especially after it caused Towson to drop football scholarships in 1995. ...then I had three girls. :D



But no school should've been allowed to become title IX compliant by only dropping men's sports.


What new opportunities were added for women?




A school should only be allowed to become title IX compliant by adding women's sports.

[andy7171]

But no school should've been allowed to become title IX compliant by only dropping men's sports.


What new opportunities were added for women?




A school should only be allowed to become title IX compliant by adding women's sports.

Towson didn't drop football, just the scholarships, not sure if that makes a difference. However my cousin was on the UCLA swim team around the same time and they flat out dropped the men's swimming and diving teams.

As for the Towson football scholarships, I'm sure they took the 36 they were giving and spread them around. No new sports were created, as far as I remember.

[Touchdown Yosef]

I used to think so too, especially after it caused Towson to drop football scholarships in 1995. ...then I had three girls. :D


Those three schools you mentioned also have something else in common, nothing in the vicinity to compete with for the sport fans attention.

That may hold some truth but not completely and I see being close to more as an advantage. I think Appalachian's attendance could be better if we had a larger metropolitan center to draw on within 40 miles. We do a pretty good job with local support but many of our fans make the trip of over 2 hours in the car each way. We also compete for attention with UNC, NC State, Wake Forrest, and Tennessee. Many people comming to our football games could just as easily attend one of these school's games every week.

[NorCalJack]

Well I don't know a lot about Tennessee St. so I'm not sure if this will all apply in your case or not. I know at South Dakota State one of the issue the athletic department had was the use of the athletic facilities. The students had use of the weight room and basketball courts for intermural sports. This was creating a conflict with the athletic department. The athletes did not have full use of the facilities and had to share with the students sometimes.

This is were I get a little sketchy as to how this happened, but the student body got the university to build a student wellness center. I believe the students voted for an increase to their student fees to pay for the wellness center. It will open this fall and has weight rooms, basketball courts, treadmills, swimming pool etc. for the students. This will free up the athletic departments facilites so the athletes can train and practice without having to worry about the facilities being used for students. Here (http://studentaffairs.sdstate.edu/WellnessCenter/new_wellness_center.htm) is the website for the new 73,000 sf facility that will open this fall.

At SDSU we also just changed the school logo. We had to do this because our old logo looked similar to Bugs Bunny and there was a potential lawsuit if we did not address this issue. Redesigining the logo however should increase sales for T-Shirts, Caps, Sweatshirts etc. as everyone will want the new logo on their apparel. The process of changing a logo and finding a logo that suits everyone can be very time consuming and contraversial. However it can create new enthusiasm for the athletic department. You also need to find out where the money from apparel sales is going. Does it go to the university or the athletic department.

You can also form a student fan club on campus. The student fan club can raise the awareness of the athletic department to the students and help increase attendance.

I don't know if TSU has tailgating, but that can also increase attendance to games. It is a good way for the alumni to get together on game day and enjoy the local food and support the football team.

Well these are some ideas, not sure if this will help or not but. You sound like you at least have the ear of the AD that is a step in the right direction.

Good Luck

Go State!!!
Go Jacks!!!

[AmsterBison]

First and foremost, if the school's President doesn't buy into the notion that athletics are important, you are well and truly screwed. The AD is next in importance. Coaches come and go - the important thing is to build a stable program - and that takes a lot of money (which is why alumni are important). Students are important mainly because they are future alumni - get them on board now :)

I wouldn't worry too at all about the stuff you can't control - either there are too many other activities competing for peoples' entertainment money or you live in an area of low population).

[andy7171]

First and foremost, if the school's President doesn't buy into the notion that athletics are important, you are well and truly screwed. The AD is next in importance. Coaches come and go - the important thing is to build a stable program - and that takes a lot of money (which is why alumni are important). Students are important mainly because they are future alumni - get them on board now :)

I wouldn't worry too at all about the stuff you can't control - either there are too many other activities competing for peoples' entertainment money or you live in an area of low population).

Very well said. xthumbsupx

[AppGrad06]

Just doing a quick look at the three FCS schools you listed.... they all have one thing in common...they are good football schools....App St has had a good basketball program the last two years and good track and cross country teams....but no program other than football to really write home about for any lenght of time besides football....UM..pretty much the same...a little success in basketball and CC and track....UD a little better in other areas....you state you want success in more than one sport yet the schools you

App actually does have a few other pretty good programs (wrestling for one) they just don't get much attention. ASU has won the SoCon Commissioner's Cup (for best mens athletics program) 28 times since 1970 and the Germann Cup (best women's program) 8 or 9 times since 1987. App is the only SoCon team ever to win both in the same year and has done so 8 times. To me that says continued excellence across the board for an extended period of time.

[AppGrad06]

I would say you have to take a little risk and invest in the future of the program with the AD, coaches and support staff. They will help build the program up and eventually you will see a return. Athletics might bleed money like a gapping wound for a few years but if get the right people in place eventually the alumni fanbase (aka money) will come. In other words you gotta spend money to make money.

[crunifan]

UNI has been pretty lucky the past few years.

Football:

2005 Gateway Champs and National Runner-Up
2007 Gateway Champs, #1 for half the season

Basketball:

2004-2006 three straight trips to the NCAA tournament with several wins over ranked teams

Track:

9th in the nation with a national champion

Wrestling:

20th in the nation

Volleyball:

Consistent MVC champs and trips to the NCAA tournament

There are many reasons why UNI has built such a successful athletics program, we have some amazing facilities for a school our size. We have a great fan base and committed community behind UNI.

But the main reason for our success is our coaches. UNI has had some great coaches. Mark Farley and Bobbi Peterson for football and volleyball. We had Greg McDermott give us huge success in basketball before Iowa State stole him away. And our track coach has made UNI the place for Iowa track stars to go. The coaches are a huge part of it. Fan support and money will follow if you are lucky enough to get the coaches that will turn things around. At least in my opinion anyways...

[813Jag]

The question was not what it took to develop a good I-AA team, but a program. It's a larger question and one which involves resources far beyond football. (This is a continuing problem for those HBCU's which dump all their money into football and marching band and wonder why they're always a step short of other schools.)
That's not always the case, some schools don't have the money to dump into football. And the bands don't get a huge amount of money either.
If you look at TSU's schedule and attendance you'll see the issue. Folks have to attend OVC games at the same rate or somewhere close to the same rate as they attend the OOC games.

[813Jag]

In my second visit to TSU (the school I'm enrolling in this fall) I managed to bump into TSU's athletics director by accident when she overheard my girlfriend and I talking about Title IX and what could be done to help TSU improve it's athletics program with conforming to Title IX. It just so happened that she was walking right in front of us at the time. I'd never met TSU's AD until then. It was cool too. She challenged me to come up with some awesome ideas to improve TSU athletics. She said she wants to meet with me and discuss my ideas and hopes I would consider becoming a student ambassador.

Well, I have a plan that involves "1-A" menality hoping it could work at an FCS school. However, I think it's important to also try to model after an athletics program at an FCS school to get idea on how to become successful not just in one sport, but overall in every sport and improve facilities with the limitations that FCS schools have when compared to those in 1-A.

Three schools I look at for TSU to try to model after are Appalachian State, University of Delaware, and University of Montana--three very successful schools in three completely different locations. Those schools are doing something right. I would kind of like to get an idea on how those particular schools operate. Where do they get their funds from? What kind of numbers are they looking at in student athletes on scholarship with men versus women?

I believe any school that is willing to put forth the effort can be successful. The AD and their staff can only do so much. The alumni can only do so much. I think it's important for the students to become more involved in athletics in college, and I think that's where TSU can go to make up alot of ground. If the students realized how important it was to be athetically-minded and pursue physical fiteness, I believe they'll live longer, happier lives and feel that any dollars they put forth toward athletics and activity at college would be money worth spent.
I don't know if you've done this already but you can get some ideas on the MEACfans (http://www.meacfans.com) site.

[McNeese75]

Coaching (which includes being a great recruiter)
Coaching
Coaching
Stadium
Fan base to fill that stadium
Money

7. Tranfer QB xcoffeex :D (except for ASU)

[TXST_CAT]

First thing First you are selling a vision. You need to get the students,Alumni and Staff excited about that vision. One of the best ways to do this is to find a coach that knows how to sell that vision. Some of the best coaches are also Alum, see if there are any old players, coaches or students climbing the college coaching ranks.
If you find the right coach he will know how to build a program with a foundation and establish a winning tradition. From there it is a matter of students , Alum and staff to continue to build the support through organizations. In the end Championships will be the fuel that keeps the fire going. xpeacex

[ScottyDoesKnow]

Fellas. Please understand some things. At most schools football revenue fuels the largest portion of the athletics department. I think success in that sport is key to getting where you want to be everywhere else. What I have learned from talking to students at TSU is that most take pride in the school because of it's race-oriented nature as an HBCU. It is that pride with which I am using to work on my platform.

TSU needs money to enhance it's current product and add much needed men's scholarships. In order to do that a women's sport must be added. TSU's AD and myself both feel women's soccer will be the next sport. Where do you get the money? By insisting on the students to not settle for mediocrity. By getting them to take pride in the school so they will give more so TSU is not outdone by other state schools.

This is where I bring in 1-A mentality. I'm not suggesting the school move up a division. I'm suggesting the students stand for the university on par with area 1-A. My proposal is t increase the student activity fee by $300 a semester. Now before you crap your britches, you should know I've got quite a few students who are not opposed to such an increase as long as TSU really steps up by offering more features, equipment, and trips to the recreation repertoir. If we can do this, it would increase TSU's budget by $7-8 million a year. Over a matter of a few years the school could upgrade facilities, add a couple sports, and I feel a better chance at being successful.

I really believe TSU students are ready for something more. I hope that I can help to bring it.

(this message posted from the iPhone)

[Franks Tanks]

Fellas. Please understand some things. At most schools football revenue fuels the largest portion of the athletics department. I think success in that sport is key to getting where you want to be everywhere else. What I have learned from talking to students at TSU is that most take pride in the school because of it's race-oriented nature as an HBCU. It is that pride with which I am using to work on my platform.

TSU needs money to enhance it's current product and add much needed men's scholarships. In order to do that a women's sport must be added. TSU's AD and myself both feel women's soccer will be the next sport. Where do you get the money? By insisting on the students to not settle for mediocrity. By getting them to take pride in the school so they will give more so TSU is not outdone by other state schools.

This is where I bring in 1-A mentality. I'm not suggesting the school move up a division. I'm suggesting the students stand for the university on par with area 1-A. My proposal is t increase the student activity fee by $300 a semester. Now before you crap your britches, you should know I've got quite a few students who are not opposed to such an increase as long as TSU really steps up by offering more features, equipment, and trips to the recreation repertoir. If we can do this, it would increase TSU's budget by $7-8 million a year. Over a matter of a few years the school could upgrade facilities, add a couple sports, and I feel a better chance at being successful.

I really believe TSU students are ready for something more. I hope that I can help to bring it.

(this message posted from the iPhone)

I am fairly certain that no FCS school produces enough revenue to fully fund their whole athletic department. A few FCS schools like Montana and Delaware make enough to fully fund their own program, but I highly doubt the whole athletic department. The number of schools who make millions on FB are few and far between and they are the Penn States and Florida's of the world.

[I-AA Fan]

Coaching (which includes being a great recruiter)
Coaching
Coaching
Stadium
Fan base to fill that stadium
Money

Coaching (which includes being a great recruiter) = $$$
Coaching = $$$
Coaching = $$$
Stadium = $$$
Fan base to fill that stadium = $$$
Money = $$$

[skinny_uncle]

Coaching (which includes being a great recruiter) = $$$
Coaching = $$$
Coaching = $$$
Stadium = $$$
Fan base to fill that stadium = $$$
Money = $$$
I think a good training facility is a necessity. It doesn't just benefit the football team but all athletes. Of course, they cost $$$, too.

[AppGrad06]

I am fairly certain that no FCS school produces enough revenue to fully fund their whole athletic department. A few FCS schools like Montana and Delaware make enough to fully fund their own program, but I highly doubt the whole athletic department. The number of schools who make millions on FB are few and far between and they are the Penn States and Florida's of the world.

Yea the past couple years App has been the most profitable FCS school generating I think like $2 million in profit (I need to try and find the article about it), but even that is not enough to fund the entire athletic department. It does make a nice dent though, but it took the first NC to get us to that point. I imagine that number will go up a little this year though.

[CID1990]

1. Sacrifice your academic and moral principles and allow thugs to attend.


That usually works.

[Retro]

"There is no promotion like Winning"

1. The first thing you have to do is put together a winning program on a regular basis and that means againest quality competition in and out of your conference and sometimes againest higher level teams... Winning means nothing if your only beating up lower division teams all the time or the bottom feeders in your conference year after year. Winning will help draw in the recruits and better coaching prospects as well

2. Once you do this, you will see the attendance rise and donations pour in and hopefully you will have leadership in place to re-invest that money into the program and athletics in general along with new ideas to keep new fans showing up.. In addition to this, you need to have (if not already) a strong booster presence for athletics that helps supplement the athletic budget by raising money for short term needs of the athletes and items the university budget doesn't have the funds for..

3. Continue to reach out to all areas outside of the university, rich, poor, black, white, whatever.. Develop game packages for those who can't afford season tickets, but something a family could handle with a lot of kids.. Got to get the kids hooked at an early age so they look forward to coming to the games as they get older and not end up staying home to watch the Vols.

[Millwoch]

Money

[TXST_CAT]

I'll break it down another way.

Look for a Coach that has connections to the University. He needs a good winning record and a reputation for his area of specialty (Offense, Defense). He needs to have a plan on how he will turn the program around and conections with HS coaches around the state. If he has Ties to the University you sell him on your vision and why he and his willingness to build your program(with less pay) will better the Future of the University. He will be THE figure head of your program. He will be the figure you will rally behind until he establishes a winning tradition. If you want ideas about how to get the students to raise the athletic fee you should visit bobcatfans.com and see the many topics about moving up to DivI-A.

[montanafan]

I am fairly certain that no FCS school produces enough revenue to fully fund their whole athletic department. A few FCS schools like Montana and Delaware make enough to fully fund their own program, but I highly doubt the whole athletic department. The number of schools who make millions on FB are few and far between and they are the Penn States and Florida's of the world.

Actually we are able to fund our entire department with revenues generated from the atheletics. Between logo sales and all other revenue types our AD actually puts money back into the schools general fund. xcoffeex

[USDFAN_55]

Scholarships.... that's all you need. xsmiley_wix

[Franks Tanks]

Actually we are able to fund our entire department with revenues generated from the atheletics. Between logo sales and all other revenue types our AD actually puts money back into the schools general fund. xcoffeex

I said fund your entire athletic program through football alone. Sales of school merchandise doesnt count.

[elcid96]

Fellas. Please understand some things. At most schools football revenue fuels the largest portion of the athletics department. I think success in that sport is key to getting where you want to be everywhere else. What I have learned from talking to students at TSU is that most take pride in the school because of it's race-oriented nature as an HBCU. It is that pride with which I am using to work on my platform.

TSU needs money to enhance it's current product and add much needed men's scholarships. In order to do that a women's sport must be added. TSU's AD and myself both feel women's soccer will be the next sport. Where do you get the money? By insisting on the students to not settle for mediocrity. By getting them to take pride in the school so they will give more so TSU is not outdone by other state schools.

This is where I bring in 1-A mentality. I'm not suggesting the school move up a division. I'm suggesting the students stand for the university on par with area 1-A. My proposal is t increase the student activity fee by $300 a semester. Now before you crap your britches, you should know I've got quite a few students who are not opposed to such an increase as long as TSU really steps up by offering more features, equipment, and trips to the recreation repertoir. If we can do this, it would increase TSU's budget by $7-8 million a year. Over a matter of a few years the school could upgrade facilities, add a couple sports, and I feel a better chance at being successful.

I really believe TSU students are ready for something more. I hope that I can help to bring it.

(this message posted from the iPhone)

He must be a dem. He knows how to spend your money better than you do.xlolx xlolx . I'll keep my $300.00 and go for a run.

[ScottyDoesKnow]

He must be a dem. He knows how to spend your money better than you do.xlolx xlolx . I'll keep my $300.00 and go for a run.


Obviously the students would have to vote in favor of this. However, I have no problem paying such a fee as well if there is there are more enhancements made for the student recreation center. I told Teresa Phillips (the AD at TSU) that myself. Unlike most people, my age prevents me from being eligilble for university scholarships. Outside scholarships barely make a dent, so I'm much looking at taking a loan to fully fund my education to finish my degree.

I'm telling you this to let you know that in light of the fact that I believe the activity fee should be increased, I would have to pay for it out of pocket by means of a loan where students on scholarship wouldn't have to worry about it.

[ScottyDoesKnow]

He must be a dem. He knows how to spend your money better than you do.xlolx xlolx . I'll keep my $300.00 and go for a run.


By the way, I'm actually a registered Republican, but this year I can't bring myself to even vote for John McCain. I just don't trust his foreign policy ever since "Bomb!-Bomb!-Bomb! Bomb!-Bomb Iran!"

[BearsCountry]

What kind of strong FCS athletics program do you want? Do you want a Montana or Delaware type where football is strong everything else is so so or do you want a Missouri State/Illinois State type where all the other sports dominate? Basketball is going to be the breadwinner for the majority of the FCS programs.

[Retro]

What kind of strong FCS athletics program do you want? Do you want a Montana or Delaware type where football is strong everything else is so so or do you want a Missouri State/Illinois State type where all the other sports dominate? Basketball is going to be the breadwinner for the majority of the FCS programs.

Say What? I know basketball is bigger than Football in several FCS schools, but not the majority. Maybe this year illinois state's basketball program did well, but i don't recall seeing them dominate the NCAA on a consistent basis..

In fact there are only a handful of FCS schools that clearly do better in basketball than football, that is if they don't overspend in basketball.. Villanova, Georgetown, UMass, Southern Illinois and a few others come to mind as the only FCS schools that are consistently at the top in all the NCAA in basketball.

[elcid96]

[QUOTE=ScottyDoesKnow;905547]By the way, I'm actually a registered Republican, but this year I can't bring myself to even vote for John McCain. I just don't trust his foreign policy ever since "Bomb!-Bomb!-Bomb! Bomb!-Bomb Iran!"[/QUOTE

Don't take anyone seriously here or it will be a long year. BTW, Bombs away. xthumbsupx

[ScottyDoesKnow]

[QUOTE=ScottyDoesKnow;905547]By the way, I'm actually a registered Republican, but this year I can't bring myself to even vote for John McCain. I just don't trust his foreign policy ever since "Bomb!-Bomb!-Bomb! Bomb!-Bomb Iran!"[/QUOTE

Don't take anyone seriously here or it will be a long year. BTW, Bombs away. xthumbsupx

LOL! I know. I'm just being inquisitive.