Selection Show

[brownbear]

Post Your Beefs Here:

1) Butler a 7 seed? Weren't they top 10 and winners of their conference?

2) And Gonzaga gets a 7 seed too?

[mvemjsunpx]

How does Portland State get a 16-seed?

When was the last time a top-100 RPI team got a 16-seed? I figured they'd be a 14-seed.

[tribe_pride]

How does MSM get a play in game? Should have been MVSU

[wkuhillhound]

Butler got shafted and playing South Alabama. They are in for a battle.

[DuckDuckGriz]

OREGON GETS A 9 SEED!!

I didn't even think we were getting in xeekx xeekx

[wkuhillhound]

USC vs. Kansas State should be one of the best 1st round games of the tournament.

[wkuhillhound]

My biggest fear would be Georgia vs. Western Kentucky. Please or please hell no!!!

[brownbear]

The US News & World Report nerd battle of the year:

Stanford vs. Cornell

Interesting that Cornell has a better record than Stanford, and seeded 11 spots lower.

[brownbear]

My biggest fear would be Georgia vs. Western Kentucky. Please or please hell no!!!

That would mean Georgia gets at least a top 10 seed.

[wkuhillhound]

Gonzaga gets shipped to Raleigh to play Davidson? How fair is that?

[DuckDuckGriz]

The US News & World Report nerd battle of the year:

Stanford vs. Cornell

Interesting that Cornell has a better record than Stanford, and seeded 11 spots lower.

Stanford is going to destroy Cornell I'm afraid.

They are pissed from almost putting away UCLA twice and not getting it done - and for getting killed last year in the tourney.

[DuckDuckGriz]

WKU and Drake!

Good matchup.

[brownbear]

Stanford is going to destroy Cornell I'm afraid.

They are pissed from almost putting away UCLA twice and not getting it done - and for getting killed last year in the tourney.

Agreed

[brownbear]

How does MSM get a play in game? Should have been MVSU

At least MVSU has to travel to Anaheim to get fed to UCLA

[wkuhillhound]

WKU and Drake!

Good matchup.

At least its not Georgia.

[turfdoc]

MVC gets no respect

IllState should be in

[DuckDuckGriz]

Portland State should have been higher than a 16 seed.

[CatFan22]

MVC gets no respect

IllState should be in

Yes they should. As should Dayton.

[YaleFootballFan]

The US News & World Report nerd battle of the year:

Stanford vs. Cornell

Interesting that Cornell has a better record than Stanford, and seeded 11 spots lower.

I thought Cornell should've gotten at least a 13 seed.

Stanford was 2-0 vs. the Ivy. They beat Yale 72-61 and destroyed Harvard 111-56 in their opener.

Stanford also lost to mid-major Siena by 12, so they are beatable.

[Baldy]

Gonzaga gets shipped to Raleigh to play Davidson? How fair is that?
About as fair as Davidson being the 10 seed. They should be the #7.
Doesn't matter, they should beat the Zags anyway.

[wkuhillhound]

About as fair as Davidson being the 10 seed. They should be the #7.
Doesn't matter, they should beat the Zags anyway.

Excellent quote Baldy.

[AZGrizFan]

ARIZONA STATE GOT JOBBED!!!!!


xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

[DuckDuckGriz]

ARIZONA STATE GOT JOBBED!!!!!


xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

I'm not so sure if it was that or the committee was afraid that seven Pac 10 teams would be a little much.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm not so sure if it was that or the committee was afraid that seven Pac 10 teams would be a little much.

Yeah, well they should have DEFINITELY been in ahead of U of A, and possibly even ahead of Oregon. WAFJ. I've always hated the selection process, but never really had to care that much (being a Sun Devils fan)....having to care this year really SUCKED. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[DuckDuckGriz]

Yeah, well they should have DEFINITELY been in ahead of U of A, and possibly even ahead of Oregon. WAFJ. I've always hated the selection process, but never really had to care that much (being a Sun Devils fan)....having to care this year really SUCKED. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

I really really disagree with you here.

ASU is 5-10 in their last 15 games, have an RPI of 88 (the lowest in the conference) and played no good OOC teams.

Oregon (while we may not have deserved the 9 seed) beat Kansas State on the road, Utah, Stanford, and swept UA (were 1-1 vs ASU)

UA is questionable and I know this is a homerish post but looking at ASU's record/opponents this year does not help their cause

[AZGrizFan]

I really really disagree with you here.

ASU is 5-10 in their last 15 games, have an RPI of 88 (the lowest in the conference) and played no good OOC teams.

Oregon (while we may not have deserved the 9 seed) beat Kansas State on the road, Utah, Stanford, and swept UA (were 1-1 vs ASU)

UA is questionable and I know this is a homerish post but looking at ASU's record/opponents this year does not help their cause

Hmmm.....I guess Xavier isn't a good OOC win any more (they're a #5 seed, I believe). We ALSO beat Stanford, swept UA, beat Oregon, beat USC, etc., and got jobbed out of a victory against WSU and the tourney game against USC.

WTF Directional Alabama is in there (as an AT LARGE) over ASU I have no idea. The committee had no problem putting in 8 teams from the Big East....

p.s....how were we supposed to know Illinois was going to SUCK this year.... xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[DuckDuckGriz]

Hmmm.....I guess Xavier isn't a good OOC win any more (they're a #5 seed, I believe). We ALSO beat Stanford, swept UA, beat Oregon, beat USC, etc., and got jobbed out of a victory against WSU and the tourney game against USC.

WTF Directional Alabama is in there (as an AT LARGE) over ASU I have no idea. The committee had no problem putting in 8 teams from the Big East....

p.s....how were we supposed to know Illinois was going to SUCK this year.... xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

xlolx Good points, and I did see the USC-ASU game.

My point is, I will defend us getting in (but not our 9 seed) - I am not quite sure how you got in over UA.

And if I were you I would be a little mad at Georgia as I believe they had a hand in crashing your party. I think when it came down to it the RPI of 88 was the deciding factor.

[wkuhillhound]

I'm not so sure if it was that or the committee was afraid that seven Pac 10 teams would be a little much.

How many Big East teams get in?

[wkuhillhound]

ARIZONA STATE GOT JOBBED!!!!!


xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

A team named Georgia kicked somebody out of contention. If only Arkansas took care of business it might have been a different story.

[AZGrizFan]

xlolx Good points, and I did see the USC-ASU game.

My point is, I will defend us getting in (but not our 9 seed) - I am not quite sure how you got in over UA.

And if I were you I would be a little mad at Georgia as I believe they had a hand in crashing your party. I think when it came down to it the RPI of 88 was the deciding factor.


UNLV beating BYU didn't help either. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[brownbear]

How many Big East teams get in?

8, but that's out of 16.

7 out of 10 seems like a little too much.

[nwFL Griz]

UNLV beating BYU didn't help either. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

Sorry AZ, but ASU didn't deserve to be in. Your RPI/SOS combo was just awfull, I know you swept UA, but your non-conference was blah. UNLV beating BYU didn't matter, both were in anyway.

That being said, Oregon shouldn't be in either. I wanted Syracuse in, and I can make a case for them, but Dayton or UMass definitely could've gotten the nod ahead of the Ducks.

[Thunderstruck84]

How does MSM get a play in game? Should have been MVSU
I think the committee didn't want to put both HBCU conferences in the play in game.

On another note, I think the MVC has a real beef the past couple of years. Last year Missouri State gets snubbed with a 23 RPI and this year Illinois State is left out with a 33. It kind of seems like RPI double standards when you compare it to a conference like the Pac 10. The commitee puts in a 13 and a 14 loss team from the Pac 10 because of the strength of their conference whereas the MVC conference RPI is comparable with any of the "major" conferences yet the committee seems to devalue the RPI ratings of it's team and conference as a whole.

[nwFL Griz]

I think the committee didn't want to put both HBCU conferences in the play in game.

On another note, I think the MVC has a real beef the past couple of years. Last year Missouri State gets snubbed with a 23 RPI and this year Illinois State is left out with a 33. It kind of seems like RPI double standards when you compare it to a conference like the Pac 10. The commitee puts in a 13 and a 14 loss team from the Pac 10 because of the strength of their conference whereas the MVC conference RPI is comparable with any of the "major" conferences yet the committee seems to devalue the RPI ratings of it's team and conference as a whole.

Unfortunately, RPI is not the only determining factor. I think RPI/SOS combo is a much better stat, and I believe the commmittee does as well.

Looking at Illinois St they have an RPI/SOS of 34/69, while Oregon was 52/30 and Arizona was 31/2. So you see, Arizona was far superior overall (even with a slightly worse record), while I'd call Oregon/Illinois St almost a wash.

[DuckDuckGriz]

Unfortunately, RPI is not the only determining factor. I think RPI/SOS combo is a much better stat, and I believe the commmittee does as well.

Looking at Illinois St they have an RPI/SOS of 34/69, while Oregon was 52/30 and Arizona was 31/2. So you see, Arizona was far superior overall (even with a slightly worse record), while I'd call Oregon/Illinois St almost a wash.

Really? Even though "far superior" Arizona was 0-4 vs Oregon and ASU?

[mvemjsunpx]

Unfortunately, RPI is not the only determining factor. I think RPI/SOS combo is a much better stat, and I believe the commmittee does as well.

Looking at Illinois St they have an RPI/SOS of 34/69, while Oregon was 52/30 and Arizona was 31/2. So you see, Arizona was far superior overall (even with a slightly worse record), while I'd call Oregon/Illinois St almost a wash.

Why would the RPI/SOS combo be the best stat? The RPI is already approximately 73% strength-of-schedule. By using an RPI/SOS combo, you're basically saying SOS is the only factor & actual wins & losses mean relatively little. The selection process needs to use less strength-of-schedule, not more.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The fact Temple got seeded below Saint Joe's irks me since we beat then 2/3 of the time, won our conference tourney and finished 3 spots ahead of them in the regular season. Plus our paper resume's we equal. Wisconsin and Butler i think got screwed the worst. No way should Butler be a 7 and Wisconsin absolutely deserved the 2 over Duke.

[Thunderstruck84]

Unfortunately, RPI is not the only determining factor. I think RPI/SOS combo is a much better stat, and I believe the commmittee does as well.

Looking at Illinois St they have an RPI/SOS of 34/69, while Oregon was 52/30 and Arizona was 31/2. So you see, Arizona was far superior overall (even with a slightly worse record), while I'd call Oregon/Illinois St almost a wash.

Why would the RPI/SOS combo be the best stat? The RPI is already approximately 73% strength-of-schedule. By using an RPI/SOS combo, you're basically saying SOS is the only factor & actual wins & losses mean relatively little. The selection process needs to use less strength-of-schedule, not more.
xnodx You beat me to it. The reason why Oregon's RPI is 52 with 13 losses and Arizona's is 31 with 14 losses is a direct result of their strength of schedule so to use them in combination is like weighting strength of schedule doubly over wins and losses.

[SO ILLmatic]

Why are the majority of the mid-major teams that are in the tourney playing each other !?!

[brownbear]

Why are the majority of the mid-major teams that are in the tourney playing each other !?!

Because the NCAA wants the big schools in the later rounds. Better TV ratings.

I didn't realize how many of these mid-major vs. mid-major games there were until you pointed it out:

Butler vs. South Alabama
Gonzaga vs. Davidson
UNLV vs. Kent State
Drake vs. Western Kentucky

[mvemjsunpx]

Because the NCAA wants the big schools in the later rounds. Better TV ratings.

I didn't realize how many of these mid-major vs. mid-major games there were until you pointed it out:

Butler vs. South Alabama
Gonzaga vs. Davidson
UNLV vs. Kent State
Drake vs. Western Kentucky

That's definitely not a majority, but it is a lot.

Mid-majors are getting seeded higher, so we're going to see this more.

[DuckDuckGriz]

That's definitely not a majority, but it is a lot.

Mid-majors are getting seeded higher, so we're going to see this more.

It's like a catch-22 for the respect of the mid-majors. They are getting higher seeds but when they play eachother half of them get weeded out after the first round.

[slycat]

GO BAYLOR!!!

[brownbear]

FCS Teams in the NCAA Tournament:

2 Georgetown vs. 15 UMBC
5 Drake vs. 12 Western Kentucky
7 Butler vs. 10 South Alabama
10 Davidson vs. 7 Gonzaga
12 Villanova vs. 5 Clemson
13 San Diego vs. 4 UConn
14 Cornell vs. 3 Stanford
15 Austin Peay vs. 2 Texas
16 Portland State vs. 1 Memphis
16 Mississippi Valley State vs. 1 UCLA

10 out of 65

FCS Teams selected for the NIT:

2 Illinois State vs. 7 Utah State
2 UMass vs. 7 Stephen F. Austin
3 Dayton vs. 6 Cleveland State
4 Southern Illinois vs. 5 Oklahoma State
6 Rhode Island at 3 Creighton
8 Alabama State at 1 Arizona State
8 Morgan State at 1 Virginia Tech
8 Robert Morris at 1 Syracuse

9 out of 32

[YaleFootballFan]

Stanford is going to destroy Cornell I'm afraid.

They are pissed from almost putting away UCLA twice and not getting it done - and for getting killed last year in the tourney.

Here's an interesting stat, against common opponents Cornell is 5-0 and Stanford is 2-1.

I think this game is going to be a lot closer than most people think.

Remember, the Ivies may not win NCAA Tournament games, but they do give their first round opponents fits. Remember Georgetown in '89? Arkansas in '90? Cal in '97 and '02?

The last time an Ivy team was a 14th seed, it lost by 4 (Penn in '93).

[mvemjsunpx]

FCS Teams in the NCAA Tournament:

2 Georgetown vs. 15 UMBC
5 Drake vs. 12 Western Kentucky
7 Butler vs. 10 South Alabama
10 Davidson vs. 7 Gonzaga
12 Villanova vs. 5 Clemson
13 San Diego vs. 4 UConn
14 Cornell vs. 3 Stanford
15 Austin Peay vs. 2 Texas
16 Portland State vs. 1 Memphis
16 Mississippi Valley State vs. 1 UCLA

10 out of 65

FCS Teams selected for the NIT:

2 Illinois State vs. 7 Utah State
2 UMass vs. 7 Stephen F. Austin
3 Dayton vs. 6 Cleveland State
4 Southern Illinois vs. 5 Oklahoma State
6 Rhode Island at 3 Creighton
8 Alabama State at 1 Arizona State
8 Morgan State at 1 Virginia Tech
8 Robert Morris at 1 Syracuse

9 out of 32

Portland State plays Kansas, not Memphis.

[JALMOND]

I'll stay out west where I think I know a little more than the further east I go...

Portland State #16---Objectively looking at the Vikings (I, too, would have liked a better spot). PSU won the Big Sky, but a noticeably weak Big Sky this year. In a bracket buster in late February, the Vikings were smoked by Big West winner Cal St-Fullerton. Playing in one of the weakest conferences this year, a conference with almost no success in the NCAA tournament (3-23 since the tourney went to 64/65 teams), and a school making its first appearance in the tournament makes sense to give out a 16. We had heard we were most likely going to draw the Big 12 champion, but we thought it would be a 2-15 game and not a 1-16 game (not much difference). Still, very happy to be in, someone has to start with Kansas, and we will give it our best shot.

Oregon in---questionable. The early loss to St Mary's is not bad as the Gaels made it in to the tournament, but there still is the bad loss to Oakland. Their last three wins came against Arizona, Arizona State and a very ugly win at Oregon State. A run at the end of the tourney game against Washington State made the score look a lot better than it was. Teams should be rewarded for playing well at the end of the year and the Ducks were not (my opinion).

Arizona in---baffled. Swept by both Oregon and Arizona State, beat Oregon State in the Pac-10 tourney and then rolled over for Stanford. Basically, schedule tough and get rewarded.

Arizona State out---questionable. Sweep in state rival Arizona, nearly beat USC at the Pac-10 tourney in Los Angeles best overall record of both the Ducks and Wildcats and a better conference record than the Wildcats. Tiebreaker placed them over Oregon, yet passed over for both the Ducks and Arizona.

San Diego---much better than a 13. Came on strong at the end.

Gonzaga---Always thrive on trips across the country. Raleigh will not faze them.

St Marys---WCC gets three teams in. Inclusion of Oregon plus wins over both Gonzaga and San Diego is good enough.

[AZGrizFan]

I'll stay out west where I think I know a little more than the further east I go...

Arizona State out---questionable. Sweep in state rival Arizona, nearly beat USC at the Pac-10 tourney in Los Angeles best overall record of both the Ducks and Wildcats and a better conference record than the Wildcats. Tiebreaker placed them over Oregon, yet passed over for both the Ducks and Arizona.



THanks, JALMOND, for making my point so eloquently. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[proasu89]

Why are the majority of the mid-major teams that are in the tourney playing each other !?!

They're confused and went ahead and paired up the bracket busters for next year.xoopsx

[proasu89]

Because the NCAA wants the big schools in the later rounds. Better TV ratings.

I didn't realize how many of these mid-major vs. mid-major games there were until you pointed it out:

Butler vs. South Alabama
Gonzaga vs. Davidson
UNLV vs. Kent State
Drake vs. Western Kentucky

i thought Gonzaga had moved past the mid-major label, and my how the Rebels have fallen off the radar. Who'da thunk UNLV would have been considered mid-major?

[Peems]

Which 16 seed has the best shot?? Anyone??

[DuckDuckGriz]

Which 16 seed has the best shot?? Anyone??

I am honestly going to go with Portland State and there is not an ounce of homerism in there. If they can get hot on the perimeter anything is possible.

[wkuhillhound]

Which 16 seed has the best shot?? Anyone??

I believe that UCLA is the most vulnerable 1 seed but MVSU is not the 16 seed to beat them.

[mvemjsunpx]

Which 16 seed has the best shot?? Anyone??

Easily Portland State. They're by far the best of the 16-seeds. Still not a great shot, though, as Kansas slaughtered both NAU and EWU earlier this year.

[brownbear]

i thought Gonzaga had moved past the mid-major label, and my how the Rebels have fallen off the radar. Who'da thunk UNLV would have been considered mid-major?

I just included all non-BCS conference teams, since there were only 6 at larges from those 25 conferences.

[813Jag]

8, but that's out of 16.

7 out of 10 seems like a little too much.
But when you take into account that 12 teams make their tourney, that's a huge number of teams.

[tribe_pride]

i thought Gonzaga had moved past the mid-major label, and my how the Rebels have fallen off the radar. Who'da thunk UNLV would have been considered mid-major?

Lots of people have their own definitions but in mine, you cannot label a team in a mid-major conference not a mid-major. Teams themselves are not major or mid-major.

[ISUMatt]

while I'd call Oregon/Illinois St almost a wash.

Bull*****, Oregon gets a 9 seed and Illinois State gets f.ucked over...Oregon knew they needed to win 1 PAC 10 game and couldnt get it done...ISU needed to win 2 in their tournament and did, I guess conference finals dont mean a god damned thing anymore...

Arizona State had an RPI of 83, do you really think the committee wants to set that trend in the next few years...

Arizona lost 14 games...14 losses and they get invited...

VIllanova gets smoked by G'Town and of course they get in, the committee made it obvious they were going to continue to blow the BCS conferences...

They they screw over the mids by making them play each other...Gonzaga vs Davidson, Drake vs Western Kentucky, Butler vs South Alabama...complete crap, let the mids knock themselves out so they dont knock out the big boys...

And of course, my ILLINOIS STATE REDBIRDS, we get to the conference finals, win 24 games, cant get a BCS team to put us on the schedule, MVC goes 8-2 in the BB and how do we get rewarded 1 f.ucking team...Then they ship us to the NIT where they dont even give us a #1 seed...Nope 4 BCS Schools got those...God forbid Ohio State would have to come to Normal Illinois....

Screw the NCAA and their money loving ways...Rumor has it that ISU administration was told SATURDAY NIGHT that we werent going to make the Tournament...yep, sounds like this mid-major got a fair shake

[813Jag]

Sorry AZ, but ASU didn't deserve to be in. Your RPI/SOS combo was just awfull, I know you swept UA, but your non-conference was blah. UNLV beating BYU didn't matter, both were in anyway.

That being said, Oregon shouldn't be in either. I wanted Syracuse in, and I can make a case for them, but Dayton or UMass definitely could've gotten the nod ahead of the Ducks.
Syracuse blew too many chances, and they were awful in the Big East Tourney, and any team that loses to USF doesn't deserve to make the tourney.

[Reed Rothchild]

On Jim Rome, Billy Packer just stated he did not know much about the bubble teams this year...

[Thunderstruck84]

On Jim Rome, Billy Packer just stated he did not know much about the bubble teams this year...
Billy Packer doesn't know much about anything except heaping his conceited BS onto viewers. He is the only analyst in any sport that makes me have to mute the television when he calls a game.

[Go...gate]

Billy Packer doesn't know much about anything except heaping his conceited BS onto viewers. He is the only analyst in any sport that makes me have to mute the television when he calls a game.


The only complaint I ever have about the selection process is that Billy Packer is allowed to be on the CBS show.

[Go...gate]

On Jim Rome, Billy Packer just stated he did not know much about the bubble teams this year...

He has often explained that he never spends much time on the mid-majors and bubble teams because most of them will be eliminated by the end of the first weekend, anyway. Talk about arrogance.

[Peems]

Billy Packer loves College Basketball, but there was an interview a few years back talking about how Packer is out of touch with fans and what is going on nowadays. He still doesn't believe that the ratings for the Tourney are accurate and if a coach doesn't do something that he thinks they should he'll harp on it for the entire game and say things such as "I don't understand why Donovan is continually playing Brewer, it just doesn't make sense!"

[nwFL Griz]

Syracuse blew too many chances, and they were awful in the Big East Tourney, and any team that loses to USF doesn't deserve to make the tourney.

Syracuse lost arguably their two best players very early, 1 pre-season and one 10 games in, they played nearly the entire season with a 7 man rotation, 5 of them being freshman. You hear all the time about teams being given a break for injuries, well there you go.

They had RPI/SOS of 52/8 and were 7-11 against RPI top 100, which is very favorable against quite a few of the bubble teams.

If you base in or out solely on the Big East tourney and losing to USF, then I agree, they don't deserve to be in. But I think the whole season should count, which is why I believe they should be in.

[nwFL Griz]

Bull*****, Oregon gets a 9 seed and Illinois State gets f.ucked over...Oregon knew they needed to win 1 PAC 10 game and couldnt get it done...ISU needed to win 2 in their tournament and did, I guess conference finals dont mean a god damned thing anymore...

Arizona State had an RPI of 83, do you really think the committee wants to set that trend in the next few years...

Arizona lost 14 games...14 losses and they get invited...

VIllanova gets smoked by G'Town and of course they get in, the committee made it obvious they were going to continue to blow the BCS conferences...

They they screw over the mids by making them play each other...Gonzaga vs Davidson, Drake vs Western Kentucky, Butler vs South Alabama...complete crap, let the mids knock themselves out so they dont knock out the big boys...

And of course, my ILLINOIS STATE REDBIRDS, we get to the conference finals, win 24 games, cant get a BCS team to put us on the schedule, MVC goes 8-2 in the BB and how do we get rewarded 1 f.ucking team...Then they ship us to the NIT where they dont even give us a #1 seed...Nope 4 BCS Schools got those...God forbid Ohio State would have to come to Normal Illinois....

Screw the NCAA and their money loving ways...Rumor has it that ISU administration was told SATURDAY NIGHT that we werent going to make the Tournament...yep, sounds like this mid-major got a fair shake

Some one is a little too invested, emotionally, here. I believe Ill. St should be in ahead of Oregon, but obviously we don't get to make that call.

I hate to tell you this, but this isn't some big conspiracy to keep the little team down. You gotta realize there is a reason the seeds fall like they do. The number 2 team in a conference like the MVC, historically, is about equal to around 6th or worse in a BCS conference. That's the truth and the sooner you can come to grips with that, the better you'll feel. Sure every few years, one team will make a run (ala George Mason), but the years of Indiana St (1979) making it to the title game are gone. For instance, if you put Illinois St in the Big East, they would probably be lucky to make the Big East tourney.

[wkuhillhound]

Western Kentucky plays UTEP in Stanford, CA as a 10 seed. I didn't think that they would get a higher seed than Wyoming.

[Peems]

Syracuse lost arguably their two best players very early, 1 pre-season and one 10 games in, they played nearly the entire season with a 7 man rotation, 5 of them being freshman. You hear all the time about teams being given a break for injuries, well there you go.

They had RPI/SOS of 52/8 and were 7-11 against RPI top 100, which is very favorable against quite a few of the bubble teams.

If you base in or out solely on the Big East tourney and losing to USF, then I agree, they don't deserve to be in. But I think the whole season should count, which is why I believe they should be in.

Did you get to watch PTI today? Boeheim was on and stated he wasn't "disappointed" about not getting selected. He said last year was much more difficult and he is still pissed about it. He said pretty much what you said, that they had tons of freshmen and young guys and that they learned from the experience and hope to do well in the NIT and that they should be back next year.

[nwFL Griz]

Did you get to watch PTI today? Boeheim was on and stated he wasn't "disappointed" about not getting selected. He said last year was much more difficult and he is still pissed about it. He said pretty much what you said, that they had tons of freshmen and young guys and that they learned from the experience and hope to do well in the NIT and that they should be back next year.

No, I missed it. Yeah, I'm not that upset they didn't get in, I realize there are teams that have a stronger argument. I also hope they do well in the NIT, and I think they will.

Having Josh Wright leave the team in December really hurt, mostly because he was the most experienced player, and could have provided some leadership.

[wkuhillhound]

Times are set for the men's tournament.

Early games:
03/20-WEST REGION
GEORGIA vs. XAVIER 12:20 PM EST

03/20-SOUTH REGION
TEMPLE VS. MICHIGAN STATE 12:30 PM EST

03/20-MIDWEST REGION
KANSAS VS. PORTLAND STATE 12:25 PM EST

03/20-SOUTH REGION
KENTUCKY VS. MARQUETTE 2:30 PM EST

03/20-WEST REGION
BAYLOR VS. PURDUE 2:40 PM EST

03/20-MIDWEST REGION
KENT STATE VS UNLV 2:45 PM EST

03/20-SOUTH REGION
ORAL ROBERTS VS. PITTSBURGH 2:50 PM EST

03/20-SOUTH REGION
CORNELL VS STANFORD 4:40 PM EST

03/20-MIDWEST REGION
KANSAS STATE VS USC 7:10 PM EST

03/20-WEST REGION
BELMONT VS. DUKE 7:10 PM EST

03/20-EAST REGION
WINTHROP VS. WASHINGTON STATE 7:20 PM EST

03/20-WEST REGION
TEXAS A&M VS. BYU 7:25 PM EST

03/20-WEST REGION
ARIZONA VS. WEST VIRGINIA 9:30 PM EST

03/20-MIDWEST REGION
CAL STATE FULLERTON VS. WISCONSIN 9:30 PM EST

03/20-EAST REGION
GEORGE MASON VS. NOTRE DAME 9:40 PM EST

03/20-WEST REGION
MISSISSIPPI VALLEY STATE VS. UCLA 9:40 PM EST

[wkuhillhound]

03/21-EAST REGION
MOUNT ST. MARY'S/COPPIN STATE VS NORTH CAROLINA 7:10 PM EST

03/21-EAST REGION
AMERICAN VS. TENNESSEE 12:15 PM EST

03/21-MIDWEST REGION
DAVIDSON VS. GONZAGA 12:25 PM EST

03/21-SOUTH REGION
ST. MARY'S VS. MIAMI (FL) 12:30 PM EST

03/21-WEST REGION
WESTERN KENTUCKY VS. DRAKE 12:30 PM EST

03/21-EAST REGION
SOUTH ALABAMA VS. BUTLER 2:30 PM EST

03/21-MIDWEST REGION
UMBC VS. GEORGETOWN 2:35 PM EST

03/21-WEST REGION
SAN DIEGO VS. CONNECTICUT 2:45 PM EST

03/21-SOUTH REGION
AUSTIN PEAY VS. TEXAS 2:50 PM EST

03/21-EAST REGION
SAINT JOSEPH'S VS. OKLAHOMA 7:10 PM EST

03/21-MIDWEST REGION
SIENA VS. VANDERBILT 7:20 PM EST

03/21-SOUTH REGION
OREGON VS. MISSISSIPPI STATE 7:25 PM EST

03/21-EAST REGION
BOISE STATE VS. LOUISVILLE 9:30 PM EST

03/21-EAST REGION
ARKANSAS VS. INDIANA 9:30 PM EST

03/21-MIDWEST REGION
VILLANOVA VS. CLEMSON 9:40 PM EST

03/21-SOUTH REGION
TEXAS-ARLINGTON VS. MEMPHIS 9:40 PM EST

[813Jag]

Syracuse lost arguably their two best players very early, 1 pre-season and one 10 games in, they played nearly the entire season with a 7 man rotation, 5 of them being freshman. You hear all the time about teams being given a break for injuries, well there you go.

They had RPI/SOS of 52/8 and were 7-11 against RPI top 100, which is very favorable against quite a few of the bubble teams.

If you base in or out solely on the Big East tourney and losing to USF, then I agree, they don't deserve to be in. But I think the whole season should count, which is why I believe they should be in.
I guess I'm the kind of person that's not really into the bubble arguements. Injuries are a part of the game and having youth is as well.
When you play in a league as big as the Big East you gotta win non-conference games and the Orange had a couple of losses early that hurt them. They'll be better in the coming years but they didn't do enough to me.

[nwFL Griz]

I guess I'm the kind of person that's not really into the bubble arguements. Injuries are a part of the game and having youth is as well.
When you play in a league as big as the Big East you gotta win non-conference games and the Orange had a couple of losses early that hurt them. They'll be better in the coming years but they didn't do enough to me.

So going 10-3 non-conference isn't good enough? Those three losses all coming to quality teams, as well.

If that's the argument, then the Cuse should get in over Oregon. Identical 9-9 records in conference, both have 3 non conference losses. The difference? Cuse lost to Ohio St, UMass and Rhode Island. Oregon lost to St. Marys, Nebraska and Oakland.

Again, I'm not that upset they didn't get in. They're young and they'll play well in the NIT (I hope), and they'll be in the tourney next year.

[813Jag]

So going 10-3 non-conference isn't good enough? Those three losses all coming to quality teams, as well.

If that's the argument, then the Cuse should get in over Oregon. Identical 9-9 records in conference, both have 3 non conference losses. The difference? Cuse lost to Ohio St, UMass and Rhode Island. Oregon lost to St. Marys, Nebraska and Oakland.

Again, I'm not that upset they didn't get in. They're young and they'll play well in the NIT (I hope), and they'll be in the tourney next year.
I don't have an arguement for Oregon, I didn't see them play at all this year.

Remember this I'm a fan of a team that felt they were left out last year (Florida State), so what did they do? Nothing, they didn't improve their schedule nor did they improve their standing in the ACC. I don't put much weight in to bubble teams especially if you're not over .500 in league play.

[nwFL Griz]

I don't have an arguement for Oregon, I didn't see them play at all this year.

Remember this I'm a fan of a team that felt they were left out last year (Florida State), so what did they do? Nothing, they didn't improve their schedule nor did they improve their standing in the ACC. I don't put much weight in to bubble teams especially if you're not over .500 in league play.

So, if i read right, it sounds like you advocate having only the top 3 or 4 in the big conferences and including more teams from mid-major or lower conferences? Even if those from the lower conferences are not the better team?

I submit that being 9-9 in the Big East or Pac-10 is equal to or better than, being 15-3 in the MVC, or 12-4 in the A-10. Before you disagree, take one of the teams that finished .500 in one of the power conferences and imagine how the would have finished in one of those mid-major conferences. If you come out with those teams finishing out of the top two, if not the winner of, said conference, then you are not being honest.

[813Jag]

So, if i read right, it sounds like you advocate having only the top 3 or 4 in the big conferences and including more teams from mid-major or lower conferences? Even if those from the lower conferences are not the better team?

I submit that being 9-9 in the Big East or Pac-10 is equal to or better than, being 15-3 in the MVC, or 12-4 in the A-10. Before you disagree, take one of the teams that finished .500 in one of the power conferences and imagine how the would have finished in one of those mid-major conferences. If you come out with those teams finishing out of the top two, if not the winner of, said conference, then you are not being honest.
I'm not a against a high number of power conference teams, but I'm not for having ACC, SEC, Big East, etc. teams just because. There's no clear way to explain how I feel about the bubble issue, but I know pretty certainly that most bubble teams would fair pretty well in a mid-major conference and would own a smaller one.

I guess the only way to explain how I feel, and I'm not saying that you are one of those people, is I don't like people that feel because your team finished 9-9, 8-10, or 7-11 in a power conference that you DESERVE to be in the tourney. I know that every team can't be above .500 (and a lot of factors go into a season) but where do you draw the line?

[nwFL Griz]

I'm not a against a high number of power conference teams, but I'm not for having ACC, SEC, Big East, etc. teams just because. There's no clear way to explain how I feel about the bubble issue, but I know pretty certainly that most bubble teams would fair pretty well in a mid-major conference and would own a smaller one.

I guess the only way to explain how I feel, and I'm not saying that you are one of those people, is I don't like people that feel because your team finished 9-9, 8-10, or 7-11 in a power conference that you DESERVE to be in the tourney. I know that every team can't be above .500 (and a lot of factors go into a season) but where do you draw the line?

That's a good question. Unfortunately the line is drawn by a committee of college presidents/conference commissioners in Indianapolis.

[813Jag]

That's a good question. Unfortunately the line is drawn by a committee of college presidents/conference commissioners in Indianapolis.
Only the committe knows for sure. I think my main issue is personal, I hold nothing against Syracuse, but there are some schools that think a decent non-conference record and 7-9 in league play should get you in. Meanwhile they don't win the games they are supposed to and get beat handily when playing higher rated teams.