Academic Standards for Atheletes

[JDC325]

This may come a shock to some but GSU may lose some recruits not due to NCAA standards but to our President upping the academic requirements for athletes. They may have allways been higher than the NCAA but they are even higher now with Grube and I can not tell you how high but it is rumored to be higher than UGA and even Furman. So just wondering how the AGS faith full feels about athletes getting in to their schools with lower requirements than the average student.

TAKE THE THIRD OPTION ALSO AS HIGHER THAN NCAA BUT LOWER THAN JOE BLOW STUDENT AS WELL.

PS I know I misspelled athletes in the title but not in the poll.

[Franks Tanks]

This may come a shock to some but GSU may lose some recruits not due to NCAA standards but to our President upping the academic requirements for athletes. I can not tell you how high but it is rumored to be higher than UGA and even Furman. So just wondering how the AGS faithfull feels about athletes getting in to their schools with lower requirements than the average student.

It doesnt surpise me that they would be higher than an SEC school, but Furman I would like to see evidence. Student Athletes should be somewhat representative of the student body. They can be below the median, just as long as they are not too far away as they must handle the course load and the demands of Division I football.

[JDC325]

It doesnt surpise me that they would be higher than an SEC school, but Furman I would like to see evidence. Student Athletes should be somewhat representative of the student body. They can be below the median, just as long as they are not too far away as they must handle the course load and the demands of Division I football.


Like I said it is rumored higher than Furman. I found it a little hard to swallow that one and why do you say and SEC school when they are some of the hardest schools in the country to get into?

[andy7171]

I have to be honest here. If it weren't for football, I would not have gotten into Towson (State) back in the day. My high school grades are completely embarrassing, but I had a very good SAT score. I was the poster boy for laziness in the classroom. xnonono2x

Coaches should make an honest assessemnt of the recruits intelligence, and if the coach doesn't think he/she can cut the mustard, don't push them in admissions. xpeacex

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't think the minimum NCAA standards will ever be the standards for athletes at UNH. I don't have a problem with that, they have to be able to handle the course load as Frank Tanks stated. While UNH isn't an Ivy or Patriot level school, there also won't be a cadre of tutors to hold their hands nor any "basket weaving" majors awaiting a student at UNH nor any unwritten policy such as the "gentleman's C" that we all know exists at Ivy schools. There is an expectation of graduating with very few "gut" courses along the way. And straying too far from "Joe Blow" just creates resentment with athletes getting free rides while students pay increasingly more each year. UNH is one of the most expensive public universities AFAIK.

[Franks Tanks]

Like I said it is rumored higher than Furman. I found it a little hard to swallow that one and why do you say and SEC school when they are some of the hardest schools in the country to get into?


I dont believe that--many of the SEC schools are well respected and prominentUniversities but I wouldnt say they are among the hardest. Also there athletes arent represenantive of there student body. Just listen to the average SEC FB player give an interview and you will understand what I'm talking about.

[JDC325]

The reality is a good percentage of athletes especially in the south come from situations that are not conducive for academic success which should change dramatically if the school and athletic department are doing their jobs as well. Where as the average student is more than likely coming from a stable back ground hence they applying to college. I know there are exceptions to the rule but I am talking majority here and do not want to go down the isolated example path. I just know a kid with a good GPA who does not do good on a standardized test should not be cast aside without applying some common sense just because the President had a knee jerk reaction to slight APR mess we had. Which I may add had just as much to do with the admins not doing there job as the student athletes not doing theirs.

[andy7171]

I dont believe that--many of the SEC schools are well respected and prominentUniversities but I wouldnt say they are among the hardest. Also there athletes arent represenantive of there student body. Just listen to the average SEC FB player give an interview and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I would say that kind of athlete is prominent at most levels of NCAA football, hardly not just the SEC.

[JDC325]

I dont believe that--many of the SEC schools are well respected and prominentUniversities but I wouldnt say they are among the hardest. Also there athletes arent represenantive of there student body. Just listen to the average SEC FB player give an interview and you will understand what I'm talking about.


I can tell you UGA any SEC school are no cake walk to get into and most scholarshipped football teams are not representative of their student body.

[Franks Tanks]

I would say that kind of athlete is prominent at most levels of NCAA football, hardly not just the SEC.

True-- I just dislike the SEC so I like to bang on them. They cheat also

[JDC325]

I have to be honest here. If it weren't for football, I would not have gotten into Towson (State) back in the day. My high school grades are completely embarrassing, but I had a very good SAT score. I was the poster boy for laziness in the classroom. xnonono2x

Coaches should make an honest assessemnt of the recruits intelligence, and if the coach doesn't think he/she can cut the mustard, don't push them in admissions. xpeacex


BINGO!!

[JDC325]

True-- I just dislike the SEC so I like to bang on them. They cheat also


I hate the SEC too but all to my knowledge they are great academic institutions with high entrance requirements....well there is Alabama but most still are. xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

I can tell you UGA any SEC school are no cake walk to get into and most scholarshipped football teams are not representative of their student body.

Im not saying UGA isnt a very Good School just not elite. The information I found said they admit about 65% of there applicants. Compare that to 10-20 % for Ivy League Schools and about 20-40% for second tier schools such as PL and the Furmans of the world. UGA has a great graduate program in many disciplines and it a fine university. But my point is that there are many schools that are at least twice as hard to get into as UGA when you look a % admitted.

[JDC325]

Im not saying UGA isnt a very Good School just not elite. The information I found said they admit about 65% of there applicants. Compare that to 10-20 % for Ivy League Schools and about 20-40% for second tier schools such as PL and the Furmans of the world. UGA has a great graduate program in many disciplines and it a fine university. But my point is that there are many schools that are at least twice as hard to get into as UGA when you look a % admitted.

Never said they were elite and if you are going to compare them to the IVIES nobody stacks up but if you compare them to all Universities they are in the top bracket hands down.

Please do not make me defend UGA again, it is so painful!!

[lucchesicourt]

There are many schools whose academic requirements are greater than the standards set by the NCAA. Maybe, if you want to penalize teams for letting athletes in who are slightly below standards, say if they fail to graduate you lose that schollie for 4 years. If they don't graduate, but they did meet the minimum academic standards when admitted, there would be no penalty. That way only athletes who have a good chance of graduating would be admitted, and schools would shy away from athletes with little chance to be successful at a 4 year school.

[Ivytalk]

I don't think the minimum NCAA standards will ever be the standards for athletes at UNH. I don't have a problem with that, they have to be able to handle the course load as Frank Tanks stated. While UNH isn't an Ivy or Patriot level school, there also won't be a cadre of tutors to hold their hands nor any "basket weaving" majors awaiting a student at UNH nor any unwritten policy such as the "gentleman's B" that we all know exists at Ivy schools. There is an expectation of graduating with very few "gut" courses along the way. And straying too far from "Joe Blow" just creates resentment with athletes getting free rides while students pay increasingly more each year. UNH is one of the most expensive public universities AFAIK.

Fixed it for ya! Grade inflation...xcoolx

[Franks Tanks]

Never said they were elite and if you are going to compare them to the IVIES nobody stacks up but if you compare them to all Universities they are in the top bracket hands down.

Please do not make me defend UGA again, it is so painful!!

Ok, yes it is true that SEC schools are in the upper 1/3 probably in academic rigor amongst American Universities (although not sure that is saying that much) The SEC compares closely as a whole to schools on the Big Ten, PAc-10 etc as well. The main university of a state should be pretty good.

[Bluehenfan08]

The athletes should have to get in just like any other college students. There should not be any special treatment for student athletes at all. It will teach the students of the future that they have to do better in high school and take it more serious. A lot of these kids are to lazy and think that there athletic ability will get them by. I just think they need to work to get any where.

[mcveyrl]

UT is a joke to get in to, FWIW...

[AshevilleApp2]

Are admission concessions made for applicants who are gifted in areas other than athletics (art, music, whatever), but who don't have as high a GPA or SAT score as others in the general student population?

[I-AA Fan]

I think this whole thread is leading to a conclusion based on having alternative venues for potential pro players. This is very common in most all collegiate sports outside of football, the only sport without a minor league system.

Another reason the dean is doing this is because of the newer NCAA standards set for the JUCO's. Note that JUCO players must now be in a program, not just general studies which was allowed prior to last year. So, many players with limited academic ability are going straight to the DI schools to play as frosh. Old Maurice Clarrett accomplished much ...just not for himself. It really benefits everyone to have the standards. NCAA standards are lower than most institutions. The problem is that schools want to set up easier programs for players. However, they have to meet the standards of that program in order to qualify. For example, my daughter goes to Ohio State, and she is in the college of Engineering. Now, to meet the standards of the state, she needs to have set scores on the entrance exams, and a certain GPA out of HS. Yet the college program she is in requires much higher standards. If GSU can create academically certified general studies programs, then the students will have to meet only slightly higher entrance requirements ...but will be able to stay in the programs longer ...thus having more playing eligibility.

[phoenix3]

Didn't GSU lose three scholarships a couple of years ago due to NCAA academic requirements not being met?

[walliver]

This may come a shock to some but GSU may lose some recruits not due to NCAA standards but to our President upping the academic requirements for athletes. They may have allways been higher than the NCAA but they are even higher now with Grube and I can not tell you how high but it is rumored to be higher than UGA and even Furman. So just wondering how the AGS faith full feels about athletes getting in to their schools with lower requirements than the average student.



Does any school actually publicize their academic standards for athletes? I here lots of rumors of "other" schools letting in athletes with bad academics, but there is never any proof. I doubt the athletic standards for UGA are anywhere near those of the regular students. As far as Furman, I suspect the vast majority of players fit into the Furman academic profile. I've heard rumors of an occasional outlier, but what student body doesn't have a few outliers academically.

Don't forget, half of all the students at Harvard are in the bottom half of their class.xnodx

[OL FU]

Does any school actually publicize their academic standards for athletes? I here lots of rumors of "other" schools letting in athletes with bad academics, but there is never any proof. I doubt the athletic standards for UGA are anywhere near those of the regular students. As far as Furman, I suspect the vast majority of players fit into the Furman academic profile. I've heard rumors of an occasional outlier, but what student body doesn't have a few outliers academically.

Don't forget, half of all the students at Harvard are in the bottom half of their class.xnodx

I would be very surprised to find out that every Furman athlete fits the academic profile of the normal student. On the other hand, we do have one of the highest graduation rates in college football so I don't think there are many that are too far below the profile.

As to Georgia Southern, there is absolutely nothing wrong with setting your standards above the NCAA requirements.

Just ask Coach Spurrier, he will confirmxlolx

[turfdoc]

I dont believe that--many of the SEC schools are well respected and prominentUniversities but I wouldnt say they are among the hardest. Also there athletes arent represenantive of there student body. Just listen to the average SEC FB player give an interview and you will understand what I'm talking about.

You obviously haven't heard an average SEC student get interviewed, or any other college student be interviewed. They are about as good as the average athlete, fortunately nobody wants to talk to them.

Typically the only college students most people see interviewed are athletes (average to below average public speakers compared to other college students) and excellent students who are politically active or winning awards (Much better public speakers than most of us on this board). Most of us sound like idiots when a reporter shoves a microphone in front of our mouths. If you are talking enunciation (sp?) then that is a whole other story and has nothing to do with academic standards or ability.

On another note most schools admit students at a much higher level than the minimum standards for the University (more applicants than spots) as long as the athlete meets the minimums then they should be in. As a whole they may be lower than the student body but they should have to meet the same minimums.

[BLHENherbie]

Does any school actually publicize their academic standards for athletes? I here lots of rumors of "other" schools letting in athletes with bad academics, but there is never any proof. I doubt the athletic standards for UGA are anywhere near those of the regular students. As far as Furman, I suspect the vast majority of players fit into the Furman academic profile. I've heard rumors of an occasional outlier, but what student body doesn't have a few outliers academically.

Don't forget, half of all the students at Harvard are in the bottom half of their class.xnodx

I think that a schools academic admission standards are reflected directly by their graduation rate.

[Maverick]

It doesn't matter whom they admit under the new NCAA rules with the APR. They will check each semester to see who is at least doing a minimal level of work which is all any college really monitors. They don't how well you should be doing as long as you are doing well enough. Those schools who were not taking care of it on a semester basis and a yearly basis are the ones who are facing the penalties. In my opinion if your athletes in your sport are graduating at the same or better level than the student body, then what is the problem? If they are not graduating at the same level or less at their peers at the school, then there is a problem. For some that is where the complaint about "jock majors" originates with the NCAA rules cited as the reason the easier majors on a campus are filled with athletes. There is a group called the COIA/Drake Group of faculty who are talking about this issue with some interesting "solutions".

[JohnStOnge]

I voted let them in. But the other side of the story is that I don't think public universities should be doing what they're doing with admissions standards with "Joe Blow" student. To me, a State university should give any student in that State a shot if they meet the State high school requirements for graduating from the high school level.

The first school I enrolled in was LSU. That school used to let just about anybody who graduated from high school in. During freshman orientation, a speaker made a big point of telling us that most of us would not graduate. I think the figure was something like 20%.

And that's fine. Just give people the shot.

What's happening now is that State universities are trying to get higher ratings in University Rating Systems that I think are seriously flawed. Those systems give "points" for admissions standards and graduation rates, but have absolutely nothing to do with an actual measure of how well prepared someone who DOES graduate is.

[UNHFan99]

I think you should admit a kid if you think they can get a degree from your institution. It doesnt matter what the kid did in high school. I think you look at each kid individually by their work ethic and character. College isnt that hard if you are willing to work. A kid I played with in High School didnt get into UNH but went to Nova for ball and graduated in 4 years. He was a hard worker and had his priorities straight once he got into school.

[DFW HOYA]

To me, a State university should give any student in that State a shot if they meet the State high school requirements for graduating from the high school level.

The state of Texas graduates 225,000 high school seniors a year.

Think about that: you could fill the entire universities of Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Texas Tech, and UTEP with freshmen and that still wouldn't be enough room for everyone.

[JohnStOnge]

The state of Texas graduates 225,000 high school seniors a year.

Think about that: you could fill the entire universities of Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Texas Tech, and UTEP with freshmen and that still wouldn't be enough room for everyone.

If I"m reading right, according to the info at http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/U_S__States/Texas/Education/College_and_University/Public/ , there are 63 public campuses in Texas. That works out to about 3,600 per campus freshman class per year. There's going to be attrition. If you use the LSU rate of 20% that I mentioned earlier you're talking about only about 700 of a freshman class of 3,600 graduating.

They have enough room.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I voted let them in. But the other side of the story is that I don't think public universities should be doing what they're doing with admissions standards with "Joe Blow" student. To me, a State university should give any student in that State a shot if they meet the State high school requirements for graduating from the high school level.

The first school I enrolled in was LSU. That school used to let just about anybody who graduated from high school in. During freshman orientation, a speaker made a big point of telling us that most of us would not graduate. I think the figure was something like 20%.

And that's fine. Just give people the shot.

What's happening now is that State universities are trying to get higher ratings in University Rating Systems that I think are seriously flawed. Those systems give "points" for admissions standards and graduation rates, but have absolutely nothing to do with an actual measure of how well prepared someone who DOES graduate is.

The only problem I see with that is that you will have absolutely gigantic class sizes for first-year courses. That might be okay for Non-Caucasian History 101 but for mathematics and lab sciences required for all students, that can create a problem.

My experience is that the media has created an unwarranted hysteria that getting into college is like trying to get into one of the lifeboats in the Titanic. That is just not the case. There are institutions for people of all levels of credentials and some are starved for students. And even if you if your academic record is absolutely atrocious, you can always attend a JUCO, bring your grades up, and then apply. Also, chances are there is some school who is looking for a person of your demographic type. HBCU's will give special consideration to white applicants if your academic record is not as good as most of the accepted students. Many schools are also trying to recruit more male students and rural students. On top of that, there is financial aide for students from low-income families. Opportunities are EVERYWHERE these days.

As far as admission standards for athletes go, I could see that creating a Title IX problem, because female athletes tend to be better students than male athletes, and it would be harder to recruit males. If they were to hold the athletes to the same standard, females might learn what it is like to have a sport they are playing removed in the name of equality.

[DFW HOYA]

True-- I just dislike the SEC so I like to bang on them. They cheat also

I think Vanderbilt tends to keep things clean.

[seantaylor]

GSU wouldn't admit Steve Baylark a couple of years ago. So, he goes up to UMASS and thrives.

[Franks Tanks]

I think Vanderbilt tends to keep things clean.

They should be allowed to cheat -well at least in football

[JMUDuke2002]

Ok, yes it is true that SEC schools are in the upper 1/3 probably in academic rigor amongst American Universities (although not sure that is saying that much) The SEC compares closely as a whole to schools on the Big Ten, PAc-10 etc as well. The main university of a state should be pretty good.

Are you joking? There are two SEC schools that compare to the more elite schools of the Big Ten...namely, Florida and Vanderbilt. The SEC cannot compete academically with Michigan, Northwestern, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin and Ohio State. These schools are usually regarded as some of the finest public universities in the nation. And, as far as the Pac-10, you have Berkeley (Cal), USC and UCLA on that list -- all head and shoulders above the "typical" SEC University.

I went to Tennessee and taught there, and then I moved on to a Big Ten school. Believe me, it is waaaay below many of the other large public universties.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Whether at an FBS or FCS school, athletes, and especially those that excel, face larger challenges than the regular student-at-large. Athletes have practices, special rules they must follow, less lesiure time, and are more in the spotlight than most students. If Joe Blow gets pis-drunk and gets picked up by the police, it's largely written off. If John Athlete does so, it could be a nationwide news story that reflects on the school, the program AND himself. Pretending that these two kids have the same college experience is ridiculous.

I believe that students and athletes should both have stringent academic standards for admission. But athletes should not be held to the exact same standards since they have to deal with a lot more than regular students. There has to be some leeway. Not too much, but some.

The big achillies heel about academic standards is: how, exactly, do you measure it in a fair way? SAT score? Many believe that they consistently favor white upperclass students over non-white students, not to mention if you're rich you can take many courses to prep you for the test. Grades? Not all high schools, and curriculi, are equal. Some kids take two foreign languages and economics in HS and others don't - how do you sort it out?

[Franks Tanks]

Are you joking? There are two SEC schools that compare to the more elite schools of the Big Ten...namely, Florida and Vanderbilt. The SEC cannot compete academically with Michigan, Northwestern, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin and Ohio State. These schools are usually regarded as some of the finest public universities in the nation. And, as far as the Pac-10, you have Berkeley (Cal), USC and UCLA on that list -- all head and shoulders above the "typical" SEC University.

I went to Tennessee and taught there, and then I moved on to a Big Ten school. Believe me, it is waaaay below many of the other large public universties.

Well you are correct. I just meant that most of the SEC schools have some solid programs. But I certainly agree that on a whole the Big Ten has more well respected schools and premier ungrad and grad programs.

[Umass74]

GSU wouldn't admit Steve Baylark a couple of years ago. So, he goes up to UMASS and thrives.

Got his degree. On the practice squad for the Cardinals. I just watched a commercial he produced for the A10. It got favorable reviews in several local papers. xnodx

[turfdoc]

What's happening now is that State universities are trying to get higher ratings in University Rating Systems that I think are seriously flawed. Those systems give "points" for admissions standards and graduation rates, but have absolutely nothing to do with an actual measure of how well prepared someone who DOES graduate is.


Here here!!!

[Eyes of Old Main]

I think athletes should be students first so admission standards should be above NCAA standards and also equal to general population.