Bad News for Josh Johnson

[Umass74]

First, he did not do well at the Combine.

Second------- he played Division III football at San Diego (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080302/BREAKING02/80302002/1032/BREAKING02).

[Syntax Error]

I sense a DIVVY coming for Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. Makes you wonder about these Texas people always making DIVVYs...

[RageAwakening]

Actually San Diego is a Division 1aa school or a Football Championship Subdivision school. they called it a "mid major" because they dont give out many scholarships, i think.

[Dane96]

LOL...ok...I am not saying anything but...Thank You for that last piece of information.

[RageAwakening]

yeah i wasnt sure about that mid major thing. only thing i remember was seeing them at either the top team or the second top team in the mid major teams. im probably wrong about the scholarship thing lol

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

welcome rageawakening

[RageAwakening]

thank you, its good to be here ; )

[hebmskebm]

First, he did not do well at the Combine.

Second------- he played Division III football at San Diego (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080302/BREAKING02/80302002/1032/BREAKING02).

I don't think it's fair to say he didn't do well at the combine. He certainly confirmed to the scouts his speed and agility; he's probably the most athletic QB in the draft, so that helps in some way cover for throwing those wounded ducks.

[RageAwakening]

he also did pretty good at the East-West all star shrine game. so he still should land some where in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[bobbythekidd]

Usually it is DivII. To move us on down to III is a bigger slap.

Welcome to AGS RageAwakening. I hope the rest of thread continues to be as kind to you.

[danefan]

he also did pretty good at the East-West all star shrine game. so he still should land some where in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Welcome RageAwakening!

Regarding Johson, it will be a small miracle if he ends up anywhere above the 4th round now. He did well in the E/W shrine game, but he hasn't really been able to create much "buzz" at the combine.

And there's nothing wrong with a 4th round pick, escpecially for a player playing at the lowest level of FCS football without much national exposure.


xthumbsupx

[danefan]

I hope the rest of thread continues to be as kind to you.

Not likely, I fear......

xpopcornx

[JMG1MON]

First, Welcome to the board Rude.

Second, he is ranked at best the 6th or 7th quarterback in the draft. No way he is going 2nd or 3rd round.

[JMG1MON]

As danefan said, 4th round is a possibility, will depend on where qbs go ahead of him. Right now, these guys are most likely ahead of him:

Ryan, Brohm, Flacco, Woodson, and Booty

and probably ahead of him:

Brennan, Ainge, Henne

[UNHWildCats]

I sense a DIVVY coming for Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. Makes you wonder about these Texas people always making DIVVYs...
In Texas its

Div I = FBS

Div II = Texas High School Football

Div III = FCS

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

In Texas its

Div I = The Long Horns

Div II = Texas High School Football

Div III = FCS

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx


Fixed it for ya

[bobbythekidd]

Not likely, I fear......

xpopcornx
I knowxlolxxlolx

I am just waiting for the someone to open the flood gates.

[danefan]

I knowxlolxxlolx

I am just waiting for the someone to open the flood gates.

D96 passed on it already. xconfusedx

[Umass74]

Who was the Toreros guy who did waves of posts on Johnson? His head may explode. :D

[bobbythekidd]

I thought it was SD Toreros, but I see 0 posts by that guy. It might be due to the missing posts/refresh that occurred lately, or I am just wrong in my recollection that he was the guy I was thinking of.

[DetroitFlyer]

Don't be so sure.... JJ still has his pro day at USD coming up. Most think he will settle down and have a great pro day on his home turf. He could go as high as the second round, but as long as he is drafted, he will be OK. He will be the first player ever drafted out of the PFL!

Now to date myself.... I remember a pretty good NFL QB who was well known for throwing "wounded ducks". He played for the Washington Redskins. Anyone else remember who I am thinking about?

[danefan]

Don't be so sure.... JJ still has his pro day at USD coming up. Most think he will settle down and have a great pro day on his home turf. He could go as high as the second round, but as long as he is drafted, he will be OK. He will be the first player ever drafted out of the PFL!

Now to date myself.... I remember a pretty good NFL QB who was well known for throwing "wounded ducks". He played for the Washington Redskins. Anyone else remember who I am thinking about?

I can't imagine he'd go as high as the second, purely for the reason that NFL teams know they don't "have" to with Johnson.

The $$$ difference between 2nd and 4th round is huge and there isn't really one team out there that is publicly chomping at the bit for him. That's how unpoven players move up in the draft, BS chatter among teams. I'm not commenting on his talents, because I think he is a very very good QB.

[RageAwakening]

thanks guy, for the welcomes and such. you guys are probably right about him going 4th round. i guess ima little optimistic about him going 2th or 3rd. whatever the case maybe, he'll end up somewhere...

[California Dreaming]

Actually San Diego is a Division 1aa school or a Football Championship Subdivision school. they called it a "mid major" because they dont give out many scholarships, i think.

Matt Dardenne from California now @ Stony Brook was going to attend San Diego and take over @ QB this year before parnets knew of the cost $30,000 + per year. Josh is a great player with many skills, just too small out of high school for major programs to look his way. Combine was a test that showed some of his weekness in being a pocket passer at a higher level.xreadx

[JohnStOnge]

I don't think it's fair to say he didn't do well at the combine. He certainly confirmed to the scouts his speed and agility; he's probably the most athletic QB in the draft, so that helps in some way cover for throwing those wounded ducks.

One thing that surprised me is that he actually didn't do as well overall as I thought he would in the speed and agility drills. Straight 40 speed...yes..he was tops. And he was one of the top performers in vertical and broad jumps. But he didn't show up among top performers in the three cone drill or the 20 yard shuttle.

Flacco, who showed up as a top performer in the vertical jump, long jump, three cone drill, and 20 yard shuttle...actually was a four time "top performer" in the tests of athleticism and agility to Johnson's three.

[bobbythekidd]

I remember a pretty good NFL QB who was well known for throwing "wounded ducks". He played for the Washington Redskins. Anyone else remember who I am thinking about?
Joe Gibbs was the name I thought of. He coached the skins, but I don't know if he played for them or not.

He was a QB for San Diego. Is he the guy?

[California Dreaming]

Actually San Diego is a Division 1aa school or a Football Championship Subdivision school. they called it a "mid major" because they dont give out many scholarships, i think.

No Football Scholarships.....

[RageAwakening]

oh ok.

[DetroitFlyer]

Joe Gibbs was the name I thought of. He coached the skins, but I don't know if he played for them or not.

He was a QB for San Diego. Is he the guy?


Not Joe Gibbs. Here is a hint.... His initials were BK.

[PantherRob82]

Not Joe Gibbs. Here is a hint.... His initials were BK.

The Burger King? Did he always wear that giant mask?

[bobbythekidd]

Not Joe Gibbs. Here is a hint.... His initials were BK.
I give up.

[Col Hogan]

Billy Kilmer

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

That would be Billy Kilmer. Just for the record, I didn't need the hint. I'm a resident old phart!!

[DetroitFlyer]

Billy Kilmer it is.... I remember watching the Skins as a kid and he threw the most wobbly passes you would ever want to see. Still, they got to his receivers and he was a good overall QB, ( at least as I remember it )!

[Syntax Error]

Johnson has plenty of BUZZ around him:
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?cat=28

"One NFL scout said Johnson was easily the top prospect of the Bay Area quarterbacks at the combine and thought he could go as high as the third round."

“It wouldn’t shock me if he’s a first-day pick,” said Billy Devaney, the Rams’ executive vice president in charge of player personnel. “He absolutely dominated at the (Division I-AA level) and did everything you want at the most important position. He has unique talent. He’s an accurate thrower. He’s athletic. He’s tough. He’s smart. And he absolutely dominated at that level. I think teams are looking at him. You don’t want to reach too high on him because you know he’s not going to play right away. But he has a chance to be special."

"And that kind of productivity,” said San Francisco offensive coordinator Mike Martz, “you can’t dismiss.”

“The more I watched him over two days,” said [NFL Network’s Mike] Mayock, “the more I said, ‘I’ll bet somebody is scared to death to wait until the fourth round.’ I think someone will jump up and take him in the third and say, ‘We’ll take a chance and maybe wind up with a starter.’”

[USDFAN_55]

Johnson has plenty of BUZZ around him:
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?cat=28

"One NFL scout said Johnson was easily the top prospect of the Bay Area quarterbacks at the combine and thought he could go as high as the third round."

“It wouldn’t shock me if he’s a first-day pick,” said Billy Devaney, the Rams’ executive vice president in charge of player personnel. “He absolutely dominated at the (Division I-AA level) and did everything you want at the most important position. He has unique talent. He’s an accurate thrower. He’s athletic. He’s tough. He’s smart. And he absolutely dominated at that level. I think teams are looking at him. You don’t want to reach too high on him because you know he’s not going to play right away. But he has a chance to be special."

"And that kind of productivity,” said San Francisco offensive coordinator Mike Martz, “you can’t dismiss.”

“The more I watched him over two days,” said [NFL Network’s Mike] Mayock, “the more I said, ‘I’ll bet somebody is scared to death to wait until the fourth round.’ I think someone will jump up and take him in the third and say, ‘We’ll take a chance and maybe wind up with a starter.’”

This is why it didn't matter too much that his passes were a little off. The coaches know that he isn't going to start right away. One to two years of coaching will fix any deficiencies in his throwing mechanics. All this may be a moot point any ways if he tears it up at USD's pro day. Coaches and scouts weigh more on the passing drills at the players pro day because he will be throwing to receivers he has thrown to before. If Johnson tears it up, then high 2nd to low 3rd round may be a possibility. I still feel Tampa Bay will try and get him in the 3rd, maybe the 2nd if he impresses.

[The Tank]

Josh had back spasm's after he ran his 40 at the combine and was very limited in everything else after that, including his throws. In his one on one interviews he impressed a lot of the teams and let the teams know that he did all the drills anyway with a tight back. He said his broad jump was 10 inches shorter and his vertical was 8 inches shorter than he had been consistently doing in workouts. He will shatter his combine numbers at his pro day this Friday!

[Stang Fever]

I sense a DIVVY coming for Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. Makes you wonder about these Texas people always making DIVVYs...

Technically you are right he played IAA (FCS football) but please someone out there tell me the difference between Div III and Div IAA (FCS) non schollie. PLEASE make me a believer that there is some large gap.

Cause for my money JJ played Div III football hidding around in Div IAA. His comp was no better than the DIV III cupcakes anyways.

****NOTE****
however he is still one hell of an athlete and cant wait to see him throw ion sundays

[danefan]

Technically you are right he played IAA (FCS football) but please someone out there tell me the difference between Div III and Div IAA (FCS) non schollie. PLEASE make me a believer that there is some large gap.

Cause for my money JJ played Div III football hidding around in Div IAA. His comp was no better than the DIV III cupcakes anyways.

****NOTE****
however he is still one hell of an athlete and cant wait to see him throw ion sundays

Its a big difference in $$$$.

And as far as competition goes, I'd say that there is a huge difference between the majority of Div III schools and the San Diego/Daytons of the FCS nonscholly world.

Now, the top of the DIII world (Mt. Union, etc..) is probably not that far off. But then again, the top of the DIII world is not that far off from most FCS sqauds (sans the App State, Delaware, Montana's of the bunch).

I'm sure there are people that would disagree, but that's how I feel.

[USDFAN_55]

Its a big difference in $$$$.

And as far as competition goes, I'd say that there is a huge difference between the majority of Div III schools and the San Diego/Daytons of the FCS nonscholly world.

Now, the top of the DIII world (Mt. Union, etc..) is probably not that far off. But then again, the top of the DIII world is not that far off from most FCS sqauds (sans the App State, Delaware, Montana's of the bunch).

I'm sure there are people that would disagree, but that's how I feel.

I agree with you 100%. I've been saying all along that the top D-III schools would very very competetive with a large number of FCS teams.

[USDFAN_55]

Josh had back spasm's after he ran his 40 at the combine and was very limited in everything else after that, including his throws. In his one on one interviews he impressed a lot of the teams and let the teams know that he did all the drills anyway with a tight back. He said his broad jump was 10 inches shorter and his vertical was 8 inches shorter than he had been consistently doing in workouts. He will shatter his combine numbers at his pro day this Friday!

If he can really improve his numbers that much, it would be great for him. The most important thing though is for him to show that his throwing is fine, and that it looked poor at the combine due to the back spasms he was having; not to mention the timing issues with unfamiliar receivers.

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned any where, but Josh weighed in at 213lbs. at the combine. He has but on 15 pounds since the end of the football season. This is a very good sign for teams that were skeptical of his size.

[Umass74]

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned any where, but Josh weighed in at 213lbs. at the combine. He has but on 15 pounds since the end of the football season. This is a very good sign for teams that were skeptical of his size.


If that's 15 pounds of muscle, after five years of stable weight in college, that would be a very bad sign. xsmhx

[USDFAN_55]

If that's 15 pounds of muscle, after five years of stable weight in college, that would be a very bad sign. xsmhx

The weight program at USD is good, but not great. Josh has been training with a top notch staff in Florida, which includes a dietician. Student athletes at USD eat with the rest of the student population with no control of what they eat. A good weight program with a strictly enforced diet is something Josh's body is not used to, and now it looks like his body is responding well.

The fact that you even thought of steroids is a joke. This kid has worked hard for everything he has acheived. Do you really think he'll cheat now?

[lizrdgizrd]

Johnson has plenty of BUZZ around him:
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?cat=28

"One NFL scout said Johnson was easily the top prospect of the Bay Area quarterbacks at the combine and thought he could go as high as the third round."

“It wouldn’t shock me if he’s a first-day pick,” said Billy Devaney, the Rams’ executive vice president in charge of player personnel. “He absolutely dominated at the (Division I-AA level) and did everything you want at the most important position. He has unique talent. He’s an accurate thrower. He’s athletic. He’s tough. He’s smart. And he absolutely dominated at that level. I think teams are looking at him. You don’t want to reach too high on him because you know he’s not going to play right away. But he has a chance to be special."

"And that kind of productivity,” said San Francisco offensive coordinator Mike Martz, “you can’t dismiss.”

“The more I watched him over two days,” said [NFL Network’s Mike] Mayock, “the more I said, ‘I’ll bet somebody is scared to death to wait until the fourth round.’ I think someone will jump up and take him in the third and say, ‘We’ll take a chance and maybe wind up with a starter.’”
Any chance these guys are talking him up to get someone else to over reach for him? Either way, if the kid gets drafted then that's good for all FCS.

[USDFAN_55]

Any chance these guys are talking him up to get someone else to over reach for him? Either way, if the kid gets drafted then that's good for all FCS.

It's very possible. That's what I've been saying all along. All these quotes from these "scouts" mean nothing. The scouts do not share their true opinions with anybody. The draft is one big mind game, and each year you'll see a team panic and pick a player way higher than most thought; you'll also see a player that seemed so highly touted going into the draft go a lot lower than expected.

[Umass74]

The weight program at USD is good, but not great. Josh has been training with a top notch staff in Florida, which includes a dietician. Student athletes at USD eat with the rest of the student population with no control of what they eat. A good weight program with a strictly enforced diet is something Josh's body is not used to, and now it looks like his body is responding well.

The fact that you even thought of steroids is a joke. This kid has worked hard for everything he has acheived. Do you really think he'll cheat now?

I think many players would sell their grandmother to the Arabs for a roster spot in the the NFL.

However, you know him better than I do. Still, 15 pounds in three months is phenomenal results especially since he's been on a weight program for five years.

[USDFAN_55]

I think most players would sell their grandmother to the Arabs for a roster spot in the the NFL.

However, you know him better than I do. Still, 15 pounds in three months is phenomenal results especially since he's been on a weight program for five years.

Yes, but a weight program without a dietician. Everyone knows weight training can be meaningless if the player is not eating the right things his body needs.

[lizrdgizrd]

Yes, but a weight program without a dietician. Everyone knows weight training can be meaningless if the player is not eating the right things his body needs.
That's still a big change in 3 months. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

[RageAwakening]

also people have different body types. some people can lose weight easily, some people can gain weight very easily also. JJ eating right and working out hard to gain 15 pounds in 3 months is something that is acheivable. not many people could do it though because they dont have the body type, but some can...

[bleedblue]

It's very possible. That's what I've been saying all along. All these quotes from these "scouts" mean nothing. The scouts do not share their true opinions with anybody. The draft is one big mind game, and each year you'll see a team panic and pick a player way higher than most thought; you'll also see a player that seemed so highly touted going into the draft go a lot lower than expected.

I'm curious USDFAN_55. You say it does not matter what the "Scouts" say and you also say Josh had back spasms which is what lead to his poor performance, along with him being unfamiliar with the WR's (almost all the QB's were not throwing to their WR's, BTW) I am wondering what you think does matter? Do you feel Pro Day says more to the NFL folks than the combines? The article in the original post says Josh did not throw well to bigger and faster WR's. Do you think that does not hurt Josh? Here is the thing, call like you see it. Flacco looked like crap in the senior bowl, Josh looked great in the East-West game. Josh had a bad combine. It's ok to say that and still be a Josh fan.

[USDFAN_55]

I'm curious USDFAN_55. You say it does not matter what the "Scouts" say and you also say Josh had back spasms which is what lead to his poor performance, along with him being unfamiliar with the WR's (almost all the QB's were not throwing to their WR's, BTW) I am wondering what you think does matter? Do you feel Pro Day says more to the NFL folks than the combines? The article in the original post says Josh did not throw well to bigger and faster WR's. Do you think that does not hurt Josh? Here is the thing, call like you see it. Flacco looked like crap in the senior bowl, Josh looked great in the East-West game. Josh had a bad combine. It's ok to say that and still be a Josh fan.

What matters? That's an easy one..... how he played in college, in the games. There is plenty of tape that shows what kind of player he is. Ask anyone, and they will tell you that throwing at the combine means very little to scouts. Look what Matt Ryan did this year. He chose not to throw at the combine; for what reason you may ask? Because he said his timing would be off throwing to unfamiliar receivers. How you play in the game is the ultimate deciding factor for scouts. Josh has proven over and over again that he performs at a very high level when it matters most, in the game.

By the way, I never said he had back spasms. If you would read before jumping to comclusions, you would see that it was anothe poster (Tank, I believe) that said Josh had spasms from the 40, but decided to participate in the rest of the combine anyways. That was news to me.

Keep digging, and I'll keep dishing.xthumbsupx

[bleedblue]

What matters? That's an easy one..... how he played in college, in the games. There is plenty of tape that shows what kind of player he is. Ask anyone, and they will tell you that throwing at the combine means very little to scouts. Look what Matt Ryan did this year. He chose not to throw at the combine; for what reason you may ask? Because he said his timing would be off throwing to unfamiliar receivers. How you play in the game is the ultimate deciding factor for scouts. Josh has proven over and over again that he performs at a very high level when it matters most, in the game.

By the way, I never said he had back spasms. If you would read before jumping to comclusions, you would see that it was anothe poster (Tank, I believe) that said Josh had spasms from the 40, but decided to participate in the rest of the combine anyways. That was news to me.

Keep digging, and I'll keep dishing.xthumbsupx



Wait Josh is like Matt Ryan? Josh has proven to perform at a high level while playing at a low level of competition. Josh has only proved he can dominate while playing 1-aa teams. You are a fool if you think the combine means very little. There is a very long list of players that did not have great seasons while at college but have a great combine and shoot up in the draft. Now you can argue if NFL people should use the combine when evauluating but you can NOT argue that the combine can move a person from not being drafted to being drafted as well as a 5th rounder to a 3rd. That's history, DISHER! Josh's combine sucked which might make people think, can he compete at higher level of competition. I gotta say how Josh did at USD dosen't mean as much(in terms of NFL) as you think. He had to put up huge numbers, way more than Matt Ryan or Brain Bhrom, just to get noticed. That's just how it is in 1-AA and lower. Matt Ryan did not throw at the combine because he does not have to. He is already projected to be the 1st Qb taken. He did not want to hurt that standing becuase he knows the combine can hurt or help one's draft position. Combine means very little, hehe. BTW, comparing Josh to Matt Ryan is just funny. And you did mention the spasms. Your quote- "If he can really improve his numbers that much, it would be great for him. The most important thing though is for him to show that his throwing is fine, and that it looked poor at the combine due to the back spasms he was having; not to mention the timing issues with unfamiliar receivers."

You did not say it first but you mentioned it later, DISHER.

[USDFAN_55]

Wait Josh is like Matt Ryan? Josh has proven to perform at a high level while playing at a low level of competition. Josh has only proved he can dominate while playing 1-aa teams. You are a fool if you think the combine means very little. There is a very long list of players that did not have great seasons while at college but have a great combine and shoot up in the draft. Now you can argue if NFL people should use the combine when evauluating but you can NOT argue that the combine can move a person from not being drafted to being drafted as well as a 5th rounder to a 3rd. That's history, DISHER! Josh's combine sucked which might make people think, can he compete at higher level of competition. I gotta say how Josh did at USD dosen't mean as much(in terms of NFL) as you think. He had to put up huge numbers, way more than Matt Ryan or Brain Bhrom, just to get noticed. That's just how it is in 1-AA and lower. Matt Ryan did not throw at the combine because he does not have to. He is already projected to be the 1st Qb taken. He did not want to hurt that standing becuase he knows the combine can hurt or help one's draft position. Combine means very little, hehe. BTW, comparing Josh to Matt Ryan is just funny. And you did mention the spasms. Your quote- "If he can really improve his numbers that much, it would be great for him. The most important thing though is for him to show that his throwing is fine, and that it looked poor at the combine due to the back spasms he was having; not to mention the timing issues with unfamiliar receivers."

You did not say it first but you mentioned it later, DISHER.

Can you please show me where I compared Josh to Matt? I keep reading what I said over and over again, and I still don't see it. I was making a point that some players don't participate in the combine position drills, especially QBs, because it is a bad situation. More and more players wait for their pro day to show what they have.

"The question I got asked the most was what went into my decision not to play in the Senior Bowl and not to throw at the combine. I didn't want to work out at the Senior Bowl because I feel I have three years of tape that shows what I can do. I didn't throw at the Combine because I want to best showcase myself on my pro day." (Matt Ryan)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7845788/Combine-a-successful-experience-for-Ryan

Ragarding the spasms: Give me a break buddy. I was responding to the other poster. I never confirmed nor denied that he had spasms. But I will go on the record now after talking to some of the coaches. Josh Johnson had back spasms after running the 40. He chose to continue because he's a competitor. It's no mystery that Josh can throw the ball. There's plenty of film that shows he can make all the throws. The films aren't doctored, that really is him making all those throws.

Regarding the combine: I'll still stick by what I beleive, and what many others believe. The combine workouts are becoming less and less significant each year. It's insane to believe that a players draft status is affected significantly from one bad work out. From what you beleive, a player can tear it up for 4 years and go into the combine the clear number 1 pick; have a poor showing at the combine and then get drafted late in the first? The combine is just a long interview process now. Scouts know what these players can do on the field, they just use the combine to see what kind of character these guys have. It's also a time for doctors to scrutinize every joint on the players body looking for signs of injury. Now the combine has improved some prospects status (Matt Jones comes to mind) after putting up freakish numbers. But if I remeber correctly Jones didn't shine in the position drills. He was drafted off of pure athleticism, and we know how much that has back fired on the Jags. Pro days are more indicative of a players skills, especially a QB who can throw to familiar receivers. Your not going to draft a guy and throw him right into a game situation without having him practice with his team are you? The reason you don't do that to a Qb is because he needs to get the timing down with his guys. Receivers all run routes differently. Some receivers are fast, some slower; some come out of their break faster than others; body movement can give away where the receiver is going, and the Qb picks up on these little things by praticing with the guys.

[bleedblue]

Can you please show me where I compared Josh to Matt? I keep reading what I said over and over again, and I still don't see it. I was making a point that some players don't participate in the combine position drills, especially QBs, because it is a bad situation. More and more players wait for their pro day to show what they have.

"The question I got asked the most was what went into my decision not to play in the Senior Bowl and not to throw at the combine. I didn't want to work out at the Senior Bowl because I feel I have three years of tape that shows what I can do. I didn't throw at the Combine because I want to best showcase myself on my pro day." (Matt Ryan)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7845788/Combine-a-successful-experience-for-Ryan

Ragarding the spasms: Give me a break buddy. I was responding to the other poster. I never confirmed nor denied that he had spasms. But I will go on the record now after talking to some of the coaches. Josh Johnson had back spasms after running the 40. He chose to continue because he's a competitor. It's no mystery that Josh can throw the ball. There's plenty of film that shows he can make all the throws. The films aren't doctored, that really is him making all those throws.

Regarding the combine: I'll still stick by what I beleive, and what many others believe. The combine workouts are becoming less and less significant each year. It's insane to believe that a players draft status is affected significantly from one bad work out. From what you beleive, a player can tear it up for 4 years and go into the combine the clear number 1 pick; have a poor showing at the combine and then get drafted late in the first? The combine is just a long interview process now. Scouts know what these players can do on the field, they just use the combine to see what kind of character these guys have. It's also a time for doctors to scrutinize every joint on the players body looking for signs of injury. Now the combine has improved some prospects status (Matt Jones comes to mind) after putting up freakish numbers. But if I remeber correctly Jones didn't shine in the position drills. He was drafted off of pure athleticism, and we know how much that has back fired on the Jags. Pro days are more indicative of a players skills, especially a QB who can throw to familiar receivers. Your not going to draft a guy and throw him right into a game situation without having him practice with his team are you? The reason you don't do that to a Qb is because he needs to get the timing down with his guys. Receivers all run routes differently. Some receivers are fast, some slower; some come out of their break faster than others; body movement can give away where the receiver is going, and the Qb picks up on these little things by praticing with the guys.



Matt could have chose to throw at the combine to add to what he has already accomplished at BC, but decided not to. Do you think Matt thought, like you, that throwing to different WR's could be difficult and thus hurt his standing? If so, then the combine does mean something. Now for Josh. Do you think Josh decided to participate because the combine would give him attention from NFL scouts and coaches that he may have not had during his career? If so, Josh may have thought that the combine would not be easy throwing to unfamiliar WR's but the risk is worth it, meaning the combine could help his chances, or hurt (risk). One of the more famous combine stories, on the east coast anyway, was Mike Mamula (Philadelphia Eagle). He had a good career at BC which may have put him in the first round, although he was projected not to go earlier than the second. But because he had a freakish combine he moved into the top 10(7). DUMB move by the eagles but the impact is clear. I've pretty much blown away you argument, although after reading your posts again I concede I was wrong with the Matt/Josh comparison. Sorry about that. Again Josh may turn out to be the best QB in the 08 class but call it like you see it. Josh won't hold it against you, I think. BTW of course Matt would say what he did about Pro Day. He can't come out and say that throwing to unfamiliar WR's could hurt me.

[USDFAN_55]

Matt could have chose to throw at the combine to add to what he has already accomplished at BC, but decided not to. Do you think Matt thought, like you, that throwing to different WR's could be difficult and thus hurt his standing? If so, then the combine does mean something. Now for Josh. Do you think Josh decided to participate because the combine would give him attention from NFL scouts and coaches that he may have not had during his career? If so, Josh may have thought that the combine would not be easy throwing to unfamiliar WR's but the risk is worth it, meaning the combine could help his chances, or hurt (risk). One of the more famous combine stories, on the east coast anyway, was Mike Mamula (Philadelphia Eagle). He had a good career at BC which may have put him in the first round, although he was projected not to go earlier than the second. But because he had a freakish combine he moved into the top 10(7). DUMB move by the eagles but the impact is clear. I've pretty much blown away you argument, although after reading your posts again I concede I was wrong with the Matt/Josh comparison. Sorry about that. Again Josh may turn out to be the best QB in the 08 class but call it like you see it. Josh won't hold it against you, I think. BTW of course Matt would say what he did about Pro Day. He can't come out and say that throwing to unfamiliar WR's could hurt me.

Blown away my arguements? How?

The combine is less and less significant each year. Here is an intersting article with many of the same exact view points I have about the combine. http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=15112 The combine used to be a very exclusive event, and now it has turned into a media circus. Just another way for the NFL to make money.

Matt wanted to be able to put his talents on display in the best environment possible (showing a morre accurate display of the type of player he is). If you paid attention to any of the combine coverage this year, you would hear every one say that the Qb drills mean very little. The scouts don't expect stellar performances in the Qb drills because it's not fair to expect a Qb to be able to throw to a receier that he has never thrown to before. The most a scout will get out of the drills is a QBs mechanics.

[bleedblue]

you would hear every one say that the Qb drills mean very little.

Who said that. You know no one on NFL network making money on the combine would have said that. You made that up.

Could Matt have improved his stock with a good showing at the combine? Many others have.

[USDFAN_55]

you would hear every one say that the Qb drills mean very little.

Who said that. You know no one on NFL network making money on the combine would have said that. You made that up.

Could Matt have improved his stock with a good showing at the combine? Many others have.

The commentators for NFL network said it over and over again. Read the gazillion articles out there that discuss this issue. Maybe that's why the NFL network really didn't show much of the QB drills?

When was the last time you heard them say a player improved his stock because he tore it up in his position drills? History has shown a player that has freakish athletic ability (which is displayed in the 40, vert jump, broad jump, cone drills, or bench press) can improve his stock at a combine.

Here's a question for you. If a player doesn't participate in any combine drills or pro day work outs, does his stock drop because a team is unsure of the players ability? After all, they didn't get to see him run in a straight line without padsxcoolx

[bleedblue]

Here's a question for you. If a player doesn't participate in any combine drills or pro day work outs, does his stock drop because a team is unsure of the players ability? After all, they didn't get to see him run in a straight line without pads

Would depend on the kid. If Matt does not participate in either it would, most likely, not hurt his chances. However if someone like Flacco does not participate it would hurt his stock. I would say it would also hurt Josh, IMO.

[USDFAN_55]

Here's a question for you. If a player doesn't participate in any combine drills or pro day work outs, does his stock drop because a team is unsure of the players ability? After all, they didn't get to see him run in a straight line without pads

Would depend on the kid. If Matt does not participate in either it would, most likely, not hurt his chances. However if someone like Flacco does not participate it would hurt his stock. I would say it would also hurt Josh, IMO.

I would agree that it would affect Flacco and Johnson in a more negative way, due to the misconception that FCS doesn't have athletes that compare to the FBS. But I do think it is not as negative as one may think. There is plenty of game film on both players for the scouts to see what kind of player they are. Plus both players showed what they could do in an all-star environment.

[USDFAN_55]

I went to USD's Pro Day yesterday, and I wasn't surprised to see JJ throwing like his usual self. His spirals were nice and tight, and he showed more than adequte arm strength. It looked as though the scouts were impressed with what they were seeing. Josh didn't participate in any of the agility drills. I'm sure the scouts know by now what kind of athlete he is. Hopefully this will solidify him as a round three pick, with a long shot at round two (Tamba Bay in my opinion).

Another person said:


"Josh Johnson's passes looked really sharp during his 45 minute workout. His spirals were tight, with most directly on mark. He worked two series of deep balls - one to each sideline. The second set (to the left sideline) was his best - he hit the receivers in-stride 40-45 yards down field on all five throws, with nice spirals on four of them. His sets of sideline routes were also really strong.

There were scouts from a majority of teams there to watch Johnson, as well as two or three head coaches. The Bears scout was there, and was catching it from Norv Turner about how much he knew about Johnson's stats (43/1 TD/INT ratio) and workout habits. The Giants had three scouts there, and they were all over him when the workout was finished. One of them said "I don't get the questions about his arm. He has a strong arm." Whatever questions were raised during the combines seem to have been answered in their minds."

[smallcollegefbfan]

he also did pretty good at the East-West all star shrine game. so he still should land some where in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Johnson won't go 2nd. 3rd-6th round is his range and I would not be shocked if he lands in the 4th round when all is said and done. I don't think I have seen 2nd round from any NFL people. I am still a big Josh fan, just don't see him going in 2nd round after his throwing performance at the combine.

[smallcollegefbfan]

As danefan said, 4th round is a possibility, will depend on where qbs go ahead of him. Right now, these guys are most likely ahead of him:

Ryan, Brohm, Flacco, Woodson, and Booty

and probably ahead of him:

Brennan, Ainge, Henne

Ryan, Henne, Brohm, and Flacco are all ahead for sure. Booty and Ainge probably ahead but I would not be shocked if he went ahead of Brennan. Woodson has seen his stock drop so you never know with him.

[USDFAN_55]

Johnson won't go 2nd. 3rd-6th round is his range and I would not be shocked if he lands in the 4th round when all is said and done. I don't think I have seen 2nd round from any NFL people. I am still a big Josh fan, just don't see him going in 2nd round after his throwing performance at the combine.

Josh redeemed himself at his pro day. He looked just fine to me. Showed that the combine was just a fluke, and that his back really was bothering him.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Josh redeemed himself at his pro day. He looked just fine to me. Showed that the combine was just a fluke, and that his back really was bothering him.

That is great to see. He is a good guy and solid player. I could see him in the 3rd round for sure.

[Umass74]

A Josh Johnson article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jim_trotter/04/08/johnson0414/) for his fans .

[lizrdgizrd]

he's going to need time. He's not instant coffee.

That's quality stuff right there. xlolx

[USDFAN_55]

A Josh Johnson article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jim_trotter/04/08/johnson0414/) for his fans .

I've really stopped reading these horrible articles. The same thing is continually hounded on (competition level), and no real analysis is done. They make assumptions because of who he played, instead of using their brains and making judgements based off of what they see. They don't look at the whole picture. It's as if they have blinders on, and all they can see is his competition. I just can't wait for this draft to be over, and see how he is going to do at the next level. There's no guarantee that he'll make it, but the tools and the background indicate he has a very good shot at being good.

[lizrdgizrd]

I've really stopped reading these horrible articles. The same thing is continually hounded on (competition level), and no real analysis is done. They make assumptions because of who he played, instead of using their brains and making judgements based off of what they see. They don't look at the whole picture. It's as if they have blinders on, and all they can see is his competition. I just can't wait for this draft to be over, and see how he is going to do at the next level. There's no guarantee that he'll make it, but the tools and the background indicate he has a very good shot at being good.
You don't think competition level has any impact on the ability of a QB to make plays? I can be a star QB against 7-8 year olds, does that mean I'm ready for the NFL? xeyebrowx

NOTE: I think JJ has the potential to be a fine NFL QB. If he is or not only time will tell.

[Retro]

I've really stopped reading these horrible articles. The same thing is continually hounded on (competition level), and no real analysis is done. They make assumptions because of who he played, instead of using their brains and making judgements based off of what they see. They don't look at the whole picture. It's as if they have blinders on, and all they can see is his competition. I just can't wait for this draft to be over, and see how he is going to do at the next level. There's no guarantee that he'll make it, but the tools and the background indicate he has a very good shot at being good.

You have to realize that quality of competition also comes into play for college players outside of BCS conferences including lower tier FBS schools... Anytime an FCS player is profiled, they always call into question his stats and who they were againest.. It's even more of an issue for Johnson because he played at a lower tier FCS Conference and competiton.. If he had played and put up great numbers againest teams like UNI, Mcneese, App state, etc., then there would a little less questioning of his ability..

Their doing the same thing on Mcneese's Bryan Smith.. He was the most dominate DL in the FCS this year, missed 2 games and was double-teamed almost at every game, yet still put up great numbers.. Despite this, the issue of the competition level is one the main issues, as it always is with FCS players..

[USDFAN_55]

You don't think competition level has any impact on the ability of a QB to make plays? I can be a star QB against 7-8 year olds, does that mean I'm ready for the NFL? xeyebrowx

NOTE: I think JJ has the potential to be a fine NFL QB. If he is or not only time will tell.

Of course it's an impact, but it's not like he was doing just OK. He dominated his competition. Also, if you've watched film on him you would see that he doesn't force throws into windows that would normally be closed in the NFL by the faster players. Basically, his pros out weigh his cons. If the one con that is brought up is his competition level, then that is good for JJ. He has already proven he can play with other top college players in the East West Shrine game, now it's time to see if he can silence the doubters again by performing well in the NFL. Like you said, only time can tell.

[proasu89]

You don't think competition level has any impact on the ability of a QB to make plays? I can be a star QB against 7-8 year olds, does that mean I'm ready for the NFL? xeyebrowx
NOTE: I think JJ has the potential to be a fine NFL QB. If he is or not only time will tell.

Don't sell yourself short Lizrd, you'd probably put up some impressive numbers against the 9-10's as wellxthumbsupx :p xlolx

[lizrdgizrd]

Don't sell yourself short Lizrd, you'd probably put up some impressive numbers against the 9-10's as wellxthumbsupx :p xlolx
I don't know, I think I'd loose a step against them. xlolx