Financial Aid Packages Threaten Cornell Athletics...

[DFW HOYA]

And if it threatens Cornell, think what is it doing to the Patriot League...

http://cornellsun.com/node/27969

http://cornellsun.com/node/28002

http://cornellsun.com/node/28003

[Ivytalk]

Well, Cornell just won the '08 men's BB Ivy title and a trip to the Big Dance. Don't write the Big Red off so quickly!

[Go...gate]

Columbia and Vassar now adopting the H-Y-P approach to financial aid. Others now employing it include Davidson, Dartmouth and I believe Brown.

More bad news for PL football.

[Ivytalk]

Columbia and Vassar now adopting the H-Y-P approach to financial aid. Others now employing it include Davidson, Dartmouth and I believe Brown.

More bad news for PL football.

Does Vassar (Jackie O's alma mater) now have a FB team?xconfusedx I know it's coed now, but...


:p

[Go...gate]

Does Vassar (Jackie O's alma mater) now have a FB team?xconfusedx I know it's coed now, but...

:p

I understand that Columbia is trying to get them on the schedule. :p

[Dane96]

I can't even read the title withou laughing.

NONE OF THE IVY's should really bitch about money. The endowments of the IVY's are ridiculous with, if I had to guess, Brown and Dartmouth trailing a relatively rich pack.

That being said, Cornell REALLY should STFU because they are getting nearly 150m per year in funding from the State under the Federal Land Grand Act.

[ngineer]

No tears for SUNY-Ithaca. They get around a lot of restrictions through their 'state-side' institution, and have raised a TON of money for athletics. Their wrestling program has spent millions on a new gym, hiring multiple coaches and recruiting like hell. I don't see that they have a 'problem'...

[Seawolf97]

I think Cornell will catch on and change their aid packages. I dont think money is the issue but more of a matter of principle. I doubt also that increasing aid will dilute their academic performance.

[JohnStOnge]

I couldn't concentrate on the rest of the article because of the statement in the first sentence the Cornell is "...one of the top athletic programs in the country."

[dbackjon]

I couldn't concentrate on the rest of the article because of the statement in the first sentence the Cornell is "...one of the top athletic programs in the country."

That is where I stopped as well..

[MplsBison]

Any chance that the land grant status could be moved from Cornell to the SUNY system?


Land grants are supposed to be public schools with a mission of educating the students of the state who can't afford an expensive secondary education.

[danefan]

Any chance that the land grant status could be moved from Cornell to the SUNY system?


Land grants are supposed to be public schools with a mission of educating the students of the state who can't afford an expensive secondary education.


It already is supposedly. There are 3 of the 8 undergraduate colleges at Cornell which are actually "state assisted" colleges.

College of Agriculture and Life Science,
College of Human Ecology,
School of Industrial and Labor Relations

They receive partial funding from the SUNY budget and in fact, the way I understand it, are set to get the same funding from the SUNY operating budget as UAlbany. That's right....three colleges at Cornell will get the same operating funding as an entire 18,000 student state university......hmmmmmm........xnonono2x

[ERASU2113]

I couldn't concentrate on the rest of the article because of the statement in the first sentence the Cornell is "...one of the top athletic programs in the country."


Yea I almost spit out my soda when I read that from laughing so hard

[LBPop]

I certainly do not want to run down Cornell, but is it possible that these kids are saying the problem is money when in fact they simply would prefer Yale, Harvard, etc.? It seems like most of the information in this article is anecdotal, so do we know for sure why these kids are saying no to Cornell? I recall a remark made by a Harvard coach referring to Ivy League recruiting when LBKid was on the recruiting trail. It went something like, "If we want 'em, we usually get 'em." He wasn't referring to money--he was referring to the power of the name, Harvard.

[Dane96]

I agree LBPOP. Look, I loved Princeton (recruited for baseball), but if Harvard or Yale came knocking personally the conversation would go something like:

Harvard/Yale: "We were hoping you..."

Me: "Stop, where do I sign."

[Go...gate]

I certainly do not want to run down Cornell, but is it possible that these kids are saying the problem is money when in fact they simply would prefer Yale, Harvard, etc.? It seems like most of the information in this article is anecdotal, so do we know for sure why these kids are saying no to Cornell? I recall a remark made by a Harvard coach referring to Ivy League recruiting when LBKid was on the recruiting trail. It went something like, "If we want 'em, we usually get 'em." He wasn't referring to money--he was referring to the power of the name, Harvard.

It's a very valid point, IMO.

[MplsBison]

It already is supposedly. There are 3 of the 8 undergraduate colleges at Cornell which are actually "state assisted" colleges.

College of Agriculture and Life Science,
College of Human Ecology,
School of Industrial and Labor Relations

They receive partial funding from the SUNY budget and in fact, the way I understand it, are set to get the same funding from the SUNY operating budget as UAlbany. That's right....three colleges at Cornell will get the same operating funding as an entire 18,000 student state university......hmmmmmm........xnonono2x



What I was asking is, can it be made so that Cornell gets nothing from SUNY and those 3 colleges are established on SUNY campuses?

IE, agriculture at Binghampton and the rest of the other 2 at Buffalo, Albany, and Stony Brook.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I certainly do not want to run down Cornell, but is it possible that these kids are saying the problem is money when in fact they simply would prefer Yale, Harvard, etc.? It seems like most of the information in this article is anecdotal, so do we know for sure why these kids are saying no to Cornell? I recall a remark made by a Harvard coach referring to Ivy League recruiting when LBKid was on the recruiting trail. It went something like, "If we want 'em, we usually get 'em." He wasn't referring to money--he was referring to the power of the name, Harvard.

For sure the "power of the name" is real, and always has been. However, I'm sure there has been some kids who would love to play somewhat locally. With the money being offered being just about the same, perhaps they would choose to play close to home so dear Mom and Dad can see all the games.

Now, you take the same kid and say: You'll have to pay a lot of money to go to Cornell, but your Harvard tuition will be at most 10% of your income. Are you willing to pay for the privilege of playing close to home? The name PLUS the finance is too tempting to say "no".

I think it's a combination of everything - both the finances and the name.

There was a time when all Ivy League schools offered the same aid package to prospective recruits, meaning cost was never a consideration. The same package was offered to students accepted at Cornell as at Harvard. But in 1993 (or so) the Ivy League was sued for collusion, and they stopped the practice. This is a big part of the reason why the Ivy League is in the mess that it's in now.

[danefan]

What I was asking is, can it be made so that Cornell gets nothing from SUNY and those 3 colleges are established on SUNY campuses?

IE, agriculture at Binghampton and the rest of the other 2 at Buffalo, Albany, and Stony Brook.

I don't know the answer to that. But I would love to see that $160 million a year split up to the four SUNY University Centers (Albany, Bing', Stony Brook and Buffalo).

We certainly could use it at Albany.

[MplsBison]

That or make Cornell "THE state university of New York", entirely.

[danefan]

That or make Cornell "THE state university of New York", entirely.

I will personally dive face first into the gorges of Ithaca before that happens! xmadx xbangx
. :pumpuke:

[Dane96]

I will wage full-scale WAR!

[MplsBison]

Why did NY give the land grant status to a private school in the first place?


Every single other state gave it to an existing public school or created a new public school.

[danefan]

Why did NY give the land grant status to a private school in the first place?


Every single other state gave it to an existing public school or created a new public school.

I have no idea. Ezra Cornell must have been mighty influential.

[brownbear]

Why did NY give the land grant status to a private school in the first place?


Every single other state gave it to an existing public school or created a new public school.

What's University of Delaware's status? I know they are some kind of public-private hybrid, but does it work the same way as Cornell?

[MplsBison]

Delaware was founded as a public school, is my point.


I'm curious why NY decided to give public money to a school that was private in the first place.

[Dane96]

Ezra Cornell had Diamond Girls on his side. :)

[UAalum72]

If you really want to know, here's Cornell's history of the land grants
http://www.cornell.edu/landgrant/resources/Land_Grant_Univ_Whalen.pdf

Of the first batch of land-grant colleges, five were private (Brown, MIT, Rutgers, Vermont, and Yale). Cornell was the sixth private, and last in the Morrill Act's first 10 years..

Basically Ezra Cornell and Andy White were elected state senators in 1863, Ezra donated $300,000 (equal to $6 million today) if they'd move the state agricultural college to Ithaca, and White became Cornell's first president. Politics even then.

The article also mentions how private colleges dominated New York's higher education, even thru the founding of the State University system in 1948. In 1863 the only public colleges were a few normal (teachers') schools and the ag school. Buffalo was private.

When I was an undergrad a professor told some story that there had been a proposal for a University of Albany in 1862, to be headed by physicist Joseph Henry and geologist Louis Agassiz, but it was decided to use the money to fund more regiments for the Civil War instead. But he was probably trying to reinforce the idea of a 'peace dividend' if we ever got out of Vietnam, so who knows how much of the story was true.

[MplsBison]

Brown, MIT and Yale were not Morrill Land Grant Act schools.

[JohnStOnge]

Let's see...Harvard's football team is 39 - 11 over the past five seasons. Yale's football team is 32 - 18. Cornell's football team is 21 - 29.

Can't see any reason THERE as to why a football recruit might prefer to go to Harvard or Yale. Hmmm. Total mystery.

[UAalum72]

Brown, MIT and Yale were not Morrill Land Grant Act schools.
Hey, I'm just repeating what Cornell wrote. They're an Ivy school, they must be rightxrolleyesx
quote:

• Land grant designations eventually went to 17
institutions in existence in 1862:
- five private (Brown, MIT, Rutgers, Vermont, and Yale);
- eight state (in Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana,
Minnesota, Missouri, Tennessee, and Wisconsin);
and
- four agricultural colleges (in Iowa, Maryland, Michigan, and Pennsylvania).
• Between 1862 and 1879 twenty-six land-grant
institutions were founded:
- one private (Cornell);
- eleven state (in Arkansas, California, Illinois, Kentucky,
Maine, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New
Hampshire, Ohio, and West Virginia);
- eight A&M colleges (in Alabama, Colorado, Kansas,
Mississippi, Oregon, Texas, and Virginia as well as
Purdue in Indiana); and
- six separate black colleges (in Alabama, Arkansas,
Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, and Texas).

[Marcus Garvey]

I was always under the impression that Cornell's Administration was the biggest threat to Cornell Athletics. They clearly stopped giving a ***** about sports about the time the Ivy League was formed.
My father summed up best: When they moved Cornell-Penn from the last game of the season, you knew that rivalry was done.
They *****canned a once-great football rivalry, and have one exactly ZERO out-right legue titles, and 3 (I think) shared titles in football.

But wait Marcus, they're good at lacrosse and ice hockey! Yeah? And how many schools field teams in those sports? A fraction of all of D-I. They choose to concentrate in sports with less competition.

[Ivytalk]

I was always under the impression that Cornell's Administration was the biggest threat to Cornell Athletics. They clearly stopped giving a ***** about sports about the time the Ivy League was formed.
My father summed up best: When they moved Cornell-Penn from the last game of the season, you knew that rivalry was done.They *****canned a once-great football rivalry, and have one exactly ZERO out-right legue titles, and 3 (I think) shared titles in football.

But wait Marcus, they're good at lacrosse and ice hockey! Yeah? And how many schools field teams in those sports? A fraction of all of D-I. They choose to concentrate in sports with less competition.

Huh? xconfusedx Cornell-Penn still is the last game of the season. Same weekend as Harvard-Yale, Princeton-Dartmouth and Columbia-Brown.

[Green26]

Ivy, please don't spoil the argument with the facts.

[Marcus Garvey]

Huh? xconfusedx Cornell-Penn still is the last game of the season. Same weekend as Harvard-Yale, Princeton-Dartmouth and Columbia-Brown.

From 1894 through 1963, the 2 met damn near every year in Philadelphia, and usually on Thanksgiving Day. The turkey day date went away sometime shortly after formal league play began.

Begininning 1964, they played in Ithaca for the first time. They alternated every year between Philly and Ithaca. The date of that first meeting in Ithaca: Oct.10, 1964. Somehow I don't think both teams finished their seasons quite so early. When the game was in Ithaca, it was in Oct. through the mid 70's.
Then, they went and switched. In 1977, the game became the first of the season for both teams, in Philly, and the last when played in Ithaca. This continued through 1987 until the game returned to the end of the schedule, regardless of who was the home team.
Even though it's the "last game" for both schools, and supposedly a big rivalry, the damage was done. It's a toothless rivalry, as Penn-Princeton is much bigger now, and Cornell continues to suck.

So SUCK IT Green26!!!!!! :p