National Championships: Does it Really Matter If...

[Cap'n Cat]

.....your school has six or four or three or just one?

I admire EKU and Montana State and Southern Illinois and WKU and Delaware's titles as much as I admire YSU, GSU and Appy's. Even if you have one, it's something to hang your heart on. Hope my guys get one some day. If so, I'll die a happy Cat.

Just thinkin' out loud.

:)

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Every team that has at least 1 NC at this point has some bragging rights - there are only 30 championship trophies as of now and way more teams. A team that has multiple trophies has even more bragging rights.

And I agree that UNI is more overdue for a national championship than any other team team in the FCS, with McNeese State being a close second. I'll be pulling for you guys if you make it to the big game, unless of course you are playing GSU.

[phillyAPP]

.....your school has six or four or three or just one?

I admire EKU and Montana State and Southern Illinois and WKU and Delaware's titles as much as I admire YSU, GSU and Appy's. Even if you have one, it's something to hang your heart on. Hope my guys get one some day. If so, I'll die a happy Cat.

Just thinkin' out loud.

:)


You are right CAT. It is something many teams and fans should experience.

I am riding the APP wave as long as I can. I am old enough to know it doesn't last forever.

[Peems]

.....your school has six or four or three or just one?

I admire EKU and Montana State and Southern Illinois and WKU and Delaware's titles as much as I admire YSU, GSU and Appy's. Even if you have one, it's something to hang your heart on. Hope my guys get one some day. If so, I'll die a happy Cat.

Just thinkin' out loud.

:)

I'll give you that, but I do admire the Griz's two over the cat's little one.

[patssle]

You also have to look at when the NCs happened. App State for example...they have many of the same players that have made the past 3 possible. They brought in a special batch. Now lets see if they can win in a few more years without that batch of players.

Now like in Montana's case where the NCs happened under different players, that is pretty respectable. They had different teams winning it instead of the same team.

[KiddBrewer]

You also have to look at when the NCs happened. App State for example...they have many of the same players that have made the past 3 possible. They brought in a special batch. Now lets see if they can win in a few more years without that batch of players.

Now like in Montana's case where the NCs happened under different players, that is pretty respectable. They had different teams winning it instead of the same team.

yea i kind of tend to agree with patssle......its truly something to be praised if you win them over a longer period...same for YSU and GSU for that matter


BUT dont get me wrong, im still happy to be a mountaineer

[GOKATS]

I'll give you that, but I do admire the Griz's two over the cat's little one.

I don't.xsmiley_wix

FTG!!

[ngineer]

It is something very special. While Lehigh's 1977 National Championship was when most of us were D-II and before I-AA began, it's still creates a sense of pride and tradition to see that plaque on the wall below the scoreboard. Especially since it was actually won on the field and not some fictitious title based upon a few guys' opinions.xnodx

[bench]

I'm not all that interested in comparing dicks. Three in a row is pretty special. Back-to-back three times is pretty special. Winning a single title is pretty special. Ask one of the long-suffering fans of a team who has consistently been good but never won one which they would rather have happen, and they'll laugh at you and say they just want to win one. It wasn't that long ago that ASU was one of those teams and we were those fans.

[grizband]

What makes winning even one title so special is that the championship trophy has only been awarded to 17 different teams in 30 total games; only 26 teams have even played in the game.

[already123]

as long as you have one you are in the club...

[Jerbearasu]

as long as you have one you are in the club...

From a respect standpoint as long as you have 1 you are in the club but the teams with more than 1 are the leaders of the club. There is a coolness factor of setting up a dynasty like App has done in the past 3 years but I think the reason why Montana, YSU and Ga. Southern have so much respect from fans is because they have done it in more than 1 era with their players.

[Cobblestone]

.....your school has six or four or three or just one?

I admire EKU and Montana State and Southern Illinois and WKU and Delaware's titles as much as I admire YSU, GSU and Appy's. Even if you have one, it's something to hang your heart on. Hope my guys get one some day. If so, I'll die a happy Cat.

Just thinkin' out loud.

:)


Since we don't even have one I can't comment on how it feels. xnonono2x

[89Hen]

as long as you have one you are in the club...


From a respect standpoint as long as you have 1 you are in the club
Not sure. I think the polish has worn off a couple NC's. It's one thing to win one and continue to be good, but sometimes NC's could be a sore reminder of what a program once was, but is no longer. Don't get me wrong, I'd be very proud of any NC, but as a Hen fan I can tell you that the DII NC's were almost painful to recall since they were so long ago. I'd be interested to hear what an EKU fan has to say on this subject. xpeacex

[JoltinJoe]

We have one. Look here:

Sorenson Football Rankings (http://www.phys.utk.edu/sorensen/cfr/cfr/Output/1929/CF_1929_Ranking_Best.html)

And I'm telling you we were robbed in '37! Unbeaten, defense allowed no touchdowns all year, and a 0-0 tie to the team ranked No. 1. Whadda ya got to do to get a little love around here?

[biobengal]

Not sure. I think the polish has worn off a couple NC's. It's one thing to win one and continue to be good, but sometimes NC's could be a sore reminder of what a program once was, but is no longer. Don't get me wrong, I'd be very proud of any NC, but as a Hen fan I can tell you that the DII NC's were almost painful to recall since they were so long ago. I'd be interested to hear what an EKU fan has to say on this subject. xpeacex

As a Bengal fan I can relate; ISU's won it in 1981 and has only returned to the playoffs ONE time, in 1983.


So, for Bengal fans all we have is history..... However, when I return to Pocatello and visit some of the sports bars I still hear people talking about the 1981 national championship and many of them were not even born!

[AshevilleApp2]

I'm not all that interested in comparing dicks. Three in a row is pretty special. Back-to-back three times is pretty special. Winning a single title is pretty special. Ask one of the long-suffering fans of a team who has consistently been good but never won one which they would rather have happen, and they'll laugh at you and say they just want to win one. It wasn't that long ago that ASU was one of those teams and we were those fans.

My thoughts exactly.

[LacesOut]

I respect any program that has one. And yes, more, much more, respect from me goes to programs that have multiple I-AAtitles, like App State, Montana, GSU, and YSU.

I'm a Blue Hen alum and fan, but I could care less about any title they ever won prior to their one 2003 I-AA title.

[Fordham]

short answer: 'yes', I think there's a difference.

long answer:

Winning one is just remarkable. Similar to how a guy like Elway needed to win a SB to really put a cap on his career, I think it cements a program for a pretty long time as an FCS elite squad.

Winning more than one is obviously even better and, if they're close to one another, establishes your team as a possible dynasty for that era. Further, if it's the same coach that led you there, puts him in as an all-time great. If they're spaced out a bit and you had different staffs when you won them, it then cements your program as an all-time great FCS school imo.

Winning three of them in succession is simply historic and on a different level than anything I could imagine (other than 4 or more ;) ). I'm in awe of what Appy has done given the bullseye they've had on their jerseys since winning the first one. Just simply amazing and something that'll only get better and more appreciated in time imo. xbowx

[henfan]

All six of UD's titles are equally as meaningful. That said, I personally only remember my school winning 3 of the 6 championships, but 'old timers' in my family and circle of friends speak just as fondly of the titles won prior to 1972 (my earliest Blue Hen memories) as they do of those won more recently. Seems heretical to minimize the achievements of those coaches, players and teams who made our program what it is today.xreadx

[TheValleyRaider]

I wouldn't know

Colgate doesn't have any....


in any sport xbawlingx


Someday.... xprayx

[elcid96]

we had our chance in 1992 after we beat Arkansas and Army and were rated #1 in 1AA football. However, beating Marshall was too much for anyone and I am glad they moved on.

[appstate38]

It is a nice club to be a part of..... Always room for more though.

[poly51]

Yes, National Championships are a big deal. Multiples are better. They create a sense of history and pride for the University. It creates a tradition for recruiting and looks great in the media guide. It is why USC is able to recruit 3 or 4 top running backs and a great team every year.

UCLA touts their 100 Team National Championships in all NCAA sports and it helps make their athletic department one of the best in the country.

Cal Poly is second all time to Abilene Christian in D-II Team National Championships with 36. The trophy case is really impressive. The 1980 D-II Football National Champion still have pictures on walls around town.

[JohnStOnge]

Every team that has at least 1 NC at this point has some bragging rights - there are only 30 championship trophies as of now and way more teams. A team that has multiple trophies has even more bragging rights.

And I agree that UNI is more overdue for a national championship than any other team team in the FCS, with McNeese State being a close second. I'll be pulling for you guys if you make it to the big game, unless of course you are playing GSU.

I think McNeese is the most overdue. Think about it. In 1997 they lose by 10 - 9 to YSU. They had a guy drop a wide open, easy TD pass. The only TD of the game was scored in the 4th quarter through the following sequence:

On third and goal, YSU's QB is sacked but McNeese is called for incidental facemask. So it's third and goal again. On the second third and goal, YSU fumbles and McNeese recovers. But YSU is called for illegal motion prior to the snap and gets a third shot. On the third third and goal, YSU scores to take the lead.

Then in 2002, McNeese plays a team it beat 38-13 during the regular season. The Cowboys lay a complete egg and lose 34-14.

McNeese is the only program to have been to the national title game twice without winning any titles.

The Cowboys are CLEARLY the most overdue.

[AAadict]

When you combine a class program with a coach that represents their institution in honor you have a program you can be proud of. We all want NC's but I would not trade a pure program for an NC. Delaware 6-6 seasons are disappointing but we love them because they are a program to be proud of. UNH, W&M, UNI, etc. have their good & bad years but always programs of honor.
NC's are the goal but I wouldn't want my team to recruit/transfer poor students to get there. I wouldn't trade our Hens program for the old Marshall programs that had better success on the field.

[james_lawfirm]

You also have to look at when the NCs happened. App State for example...they have many of the same players that have made the past 3 possible. They brought in a special batch. Now lets see if they can win in a few more years without that batch of players.

Now like in Montana's case where the NCs happened under different players, that is pretty respectable. They had different teams winning it instead of the same team.


Not sure I agree that App won all 3 NCs with many of the same players. Williams (QB) got it started in '05. The DBs were mostly the same - Wiggins, Lynch, Touchstone, Woazah (sp?). DL - different. Some of the OL was same. Different TEs. K.Rich played all 3 games.

My point is that some played all 3 seasons, but some did not. I think a more relevant observation is that the entire coaching staff was the same through those 3 years (and before). And with one exception (and he was the Western guy), they're all back in '08! A stable coaching staff means there is a certain cohesion and strength that other teams just don't have.

I think App has a darn good chance to do well in '08 too. Of course, we also have a good chance to be 2 -2 going into the SoCon games! Yikes!

[furman94]

FU is Due for another! Our one and only is 20 years old this year! 1988-2008! Happy Anniv. FU!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think McNeese is the most overdue. Think about it. In 1997 they lose by 10 - 9 to YSU. They had a guy drop a wide open, easy TD pass. The only TD of the game was scored in the 4th quarter through the following sequence:

On third and goal, YSU's QB is sacked but McNeese is called for incidental facemask. So it's third and goal again. On the second third and goal, YSU fumbles and McNeese recovers. But YSU is called for illegal motion prior to the snap and gets a third shot. On the third third and goal, YSU scores to take the lead.

Then in 2002, McNeese plays a team it beat 38-13 during the regular season. The Cowboys lay a complete egg and lose 34-14.

McNeese is the only program to have been to the national title game twice without winning any titles.

The Cowboys are CLEARLY the most overdue.

McNeese does have those two heartbreaker championship games, but I chose UNI because their success in the playoffs goes back farther than MSU's. Here are some of UNI's good runs...

In '85, they lose to GSU by 7 points in the semis (lost to the national champs)
In '87, they lose in the semis in overtime (lost to the national champs)
In '90 they lose in first round by 17
In '91 they lose in the quarterfinals by 27
In '92 they lose in the semis by 12
In '95 they lose in the quarterfinals by 17
In '96 they lose in the semis by 17 (lost to the national champs)
In '01 they lose in the semis by 38 (lost to the national champs)
In '05 they lose in the national championship by 5
In '07 they have an outstanding season and lose by 12 in quarterfinals

At least, I think those listed in bold can be counted as "near misses", even though they didn't make it to the NC in all of them.

[Eyes of Old Main]

All NC's show quality. Quantity creates points of debate because of the circumstances at the time the titles were won. Clearly, the competition is tougher now, but I don't think that means current titles are worth more than older ones.

I'd say they are all special and I'd love to see Wofford get one some day, but I understand the obstacles to that and if it happens, I'll be ecstatic, and if it doesn't then I'll be OK. We played for the NAIA title in 1970 and lost, hopefully we'll do better if we get another chance at a title.

[Death Dealer]

I was there for Furman's first NC. It was glorious. I hope I live to see another one.xnodx

[crunifan]

McNeese does have those two heartbreaker championship games, but I chose UNI because their success in the playoffs goes back farther than MSU's. Here are some of UNI's good runs...

In '85, they lose to GSU by 7 points in the semis (lost to the national champs)
In '87, they lose in the semis in overtime (lost to the national champs)
In '90 they lose in first round by 17
In '91 they lose in the quarterfinals by 27
In '92 they lose in the semis by 12
In '95 they lose in the quarterfinals by 17
In '96 they lose in the semis by 17 (lost to the national champs)
In '01 they lose in the semis by 38 (lost to the national champs)
In '05 they lose in the national championship by 5
In '07 they have an outstanding season and lose by 12 in quarterfinals

At least, I think those listed in bold can be counted as "near misses", even though they didn't make it to the NC in all of them.

Not to mention, we lost the 2005 National Championship on a fumble that if would have happened one second later would have been an incomplete forward pass and we would have possibly held on to the lead.

[LarryBoy]

I was there for Furman's first NC. It was glorious. I hope I live to see another one.xnodx

I was three years old. But a pumped three-year-old I was...

I have deemed 2008 the year of fruition...I got engaged, I'll graduate from Furman, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz will nostalgically pitch the Braves to a second World Series, and Furman will celebrate 20 years with a second national championship.

That would feel good for a very long time...30 championship games and Furman is still the only private school (and the smallest) to take home the title. To have two would be golden. To do so against App would be pure ecstasy.

But (not to be overdramatic), I think some part of Furman football died in the semis in '05 at App. That was THE YEAR. The killer instinct, never-say-die attitude just vanished after that. That is, until the last three games this past season.xnodx

[T-Dog]

But (not to be overdramatic), I think some part of Furman football died in the semis in '05 at App. That was THE YEAR. The killer instinct, never-say-die attitude just vanished after that. That is, until the last three games this past season.xnodx

It's amazing to see in retrospect how that one play (Hunter causing Ingle to fumble the ball) changed the fortunes of the two programs for the last three years.

And honestly, I think Furman would have won comfortable against UNI in the finals. No offense to UNI, but Felton would have had a field day and Ingle was that good. And they were healthy. Heck, Felton had a field day most the day against us.

I remember before 05, people were talking about all the near-misses (Montana in OT in 01, M*rsh*ll in 87, the 95 season, M*rsh*ll in general, GaSo in general) and such and now, you don't hear that stuff anymore. We're like the Boston Red Sox of the FCS.

And to answer the original question, yes it does matter if your school has more than one. One puts you in the club, but 2+ puts you in the VIP room. One though is very special and is commendable to a program.

After one, it becomes infectious. It's like a joke I saw last month in which a 1-month old Red Sox fan is ticked that the Sox haven't won a World Series in his lifetime. I will say you ask any App fan whose been there for this whole ride *raises hand* and ask them which one was their favorite, most all if not all will say the first one in 05. And I share that sentiment. (Bonus that it was our first NC in any sport, although we came close in D1 soccer twenty or so years ago)

And besides App and a SoCon team winning the NC, I'd be pulling for UNI to get one. Long overdue.

[blueballs]

All one has to do to understand how much winning NC's and having a great football program mean is compare GSU's enrollment, campus, and overall profile 25 years ago to now.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Not sure I agree that App won all 3 NCs with many of the same players. Williams (QB) got it started in '05. The DBs were mostly the same - Wiggins, Lynch, Touchstone, Woazah (sp?). DL - different. Some of the OL was same. Different TEs. K.Rich played all 3 games.

My point is that some played all 3 seasons, but some did not. I think a more relevant observation is that the entire coaching staff was the same through those 3 years (and before). And with one exception (and he was the Western guy), they're all back in '08! A stable coaching staff means there is a certain cohesion and strength that other teams just don't have.

I think App has a darn good chance to do well in '08 too. Of course, we also have a good chance to be 2 -2 going into the SoCon games! Yikes!


Unfortunately West Virginia scooped up Lonnie Galloway, our WR coach in the offseason.

[89Hen]

All one has to do to understand how much winning NC's and having a great football program mean is compare GSU's enrollment, campus, and overall profile 25 years ago to now.
Could be partly responsible, but most colleges and universities have seen unprecidented growth in the last 25 years irregardless of athletics. So many more people go to college now compared to my parent's generation. My parents did not go to college, nor did any of my aunts or uncles. All four of their kids went, as did 80% of my cousins. xtwocentsx

[furman94]

I was three years old. But a pumped three-year-old I was...

I have deemed 2008 the year of fruition...I got engaged, I'll graduate from Furman, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz will nostalgically pitch the Braves to a second World Series, and Furman will celebrate 20 years with a second national championship.

That would feel good for a very long time...30 championship games and Furman is still the only private school (and the smallest) to take home the title. To have two would be golden. To do so against App would be pure ecstasy.

But (not to be overdramatic), I think some part of Furman football died in the semis in '05 at App. That was THE YEAR. The killer instinct, never-say-die attitude just vanished after that. That is, until the last three games this past season.xnodx

I agree on your last statement. Bobby, after his accident, has become more conservative. I believe that in the last three games, we witnessed a rebirth. A rebirth of the FU Football Program. I wouldn't mind for this years team motto and theme to be "Back to the 80's" I believe that if not this year, in the coming years, the FU Program will be restored to its Hayday in the 80's!

[OL FU]

I was there for Furman's first NC. It was glorious. I hope I live to see another one.xnodx

In 1988 I went to every game (including the glorious win over the Team that shall not be named) except for the NC. I could not swing the last minute tripxbawlingx But I whooped it up watching it on TVxnodx

[bench]

I agree on your last statement. Bobby, after his accident, has become more conservative. I believe that in the last three games, we witnessed a rebirth. A rebirth of the FU Football Program. I wouldn't mind for this years team motto and theme to be "Back to the 80's" I believe that if not this year, in the coming years, the FU Program will be restored to its Hayday in the 80's!

I'm looking forward to seeing your guys at home this season. They played very well down the stretch, and should have some much-needed momentum going into 2008.

[furman94]

Atleast the Paladin Nation nopes so!

[WUTNDITWAA]

[QUOTE=T-Dog;872235]And to answer the original question, yes it does matter if your school has more than one. One puts you in the club, but 2+ puts you in the VIP room. One though is very special and is commendable to a program.

After one, it becomes infectious. It's like a joke I saw last month in which a 1-month old Red Sox fan is ticked that the Sox haven't won a World Series in his lifetime.

Amen! [WUTNDITWAA Points to siggy] xnodx

[Cap'n Cat]

I just wanna still be around when Indiana State wins one!!!

xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[OrygunBison]

When I was in school in the late 80's/early 90's, NDSU was king in D2. We won enough NC's that we grew to EXPECT them. Then, the late 90's and early 00's happened and it just seemed sorta pathetic to respond to the critism with "well, yeah, but how many championships do YOU have???"

Bison, what have you done lately. I'm hungry again.

[furman94]

Welcome to AGS OrygunBison!

[OrygunBison]

Welcome to AGS OrygunBison!

Thanks, much. Long time lurker here...

[Sir William]

In 1988 I went to every game (including the glorious win over the Team that shall not be named) except for the NC.

I made the trip to Huntington for that game as well. One of the greatest days of my life! 13-9! Will never forget it!

[T-Dog]

I made the trip to Huntington for that game as well. One of the greatest days of my life! 13-9! Will never forget it!

And you made it out unscathed?

[blueballs]

Could be partly responsible, but most colleges and universities have seen unprecidented growth in the last 25 years irregardless of athletics. So many more people go to college now compared to my parent's generation. My parents did not go to college, nor did any of my aunts or uncles. All four of their kids went, as did 80% of my cousins. xtwocentsx


No doubt... but in GSU case we're talking about enrollment quadrupling from 4-5k to 16-18k, the size of the campus doubling, and the institution achieving university status.

It is not all due to football of course, but football and those early titles created an aura about the place. The same vision and "go for it" attitude that Dr. Lick had to start the program and bring Erk Russell to town (which gave everything about the school and the program instant credibility in the state of GA) fed off that aura and great things happened.

[JohnStOnge]

McNeese does have those two heartbreaker championship games, but I chose UNI because their success in the playoffs goes back farther than MSU's. Here are some of UNI's good runs...

In '85, they lose to GSU by 7 points in the semis (lost to the national champs)
In '87, they lose in the semis in overtime (lost to the national champs)
In '90 they lose in first round by 17
In '91 they lose in the quarterfinals by 27
In '92 they lose in the semis by 12
In '95 they lose in the quarterfinals by 17
In '96 they lose in the semis by 17 (lost to the national champs)
In '01 they lose in the semis by 38 (lost to the national champs)
In '05 they lose in the national championship by 5
In '07 they have an outstanding season and lose by 12 in quarterfinals

At least, I think those listed in bold can be counted as "near misses", even though they didn't make it to the NC in all of them.

Just as an aside...not for the purposes of debate...McNeese was eliminated by 1 point by the eventual national champ in 1997 then eliminated by 2 points by the eventual national champ in 1998. I already described some of the drama of the 1997 loss to YSU in the title game. IN 1998, McNeese lost to eventual national champ UMass by 21 - 19 in one of the most frustrating games I've ever watched. Several dropped TD passes leading to settling for field goals; then a long field goal VERY narrowly missed near the end.

That was back when McNeese consistently had very dominant defenses. In both years, the Cowboys held the eventual national champs to their lowest point totals of the season but still came out...narrowly...on the short end.

[seantaylor]

Disagree on the RB thing. LSU has got nobody that is as good a running back as Mike Hart. The guy was a 4 year starter, and broke every rushing record at Michigan.

[Big Dawg]

Yes we've got one!!!

[D1scout]

I think it matters if you have 1 NC or multipble NC's in any sport. It forever changes the perspective of both the program and heightens the university's profile. I can recall recently, when talking to football coaches at the FBS level, how the first thing they mention or show recruits is the NC that the school won. And some of these NC's were 45 years or more ago!:) It is so important that the Tarrapins of Maryland actually maintain a vacant showcase reserved for the second NC they intend to win. When talking to Ralph Freidgen one of the first things he points out to perspective recruits is the goal of the Tarrapin program to fill that trophy case with a NC. He tells them how they can be a part of that endeavor. If you talk to Don Brown, one of the main selling point by the Minuteman mentor is that UMass won a NC and was runnerup recently. So, whether your school won a single NC or multiple NC's take pride in being in that exclusive club.xthumbsupx

[ngineer]

I think it matters if you have 1 NC or multipble NC's in any sport. It forever changes the perspective of both the program and heightens the university's profile. I can recall recently, when talking to football coaches at the FBS level, how the first thing they mention or show recruits is the NC that the school won. And some of these NC's were 45 years or more ago!:) It is so important that the Tarrapins of Maryland actually maintain a vacant showcase reserved for the second NC they intend to win. When talking to Ralph Freidgen one of the first things he points out to perspective recruits is the goal of the Tarrapin program to fill that trophy case with a NC. He tells them how they can be a part of that endeavor. If you talk to Don Brown, one of the main selling point by the Minuteman mentor is that UMass won a NC and was runnerup recently. So, whether your school won a single NC or multiple NC's take pride in being in that exclusive club.xthumbsupx

The only problem with Maryland, and the other BCS schools, is that, that trophy is not an NCAA Championship Trophy.;)

[JohnStOnge]

Disagree on the RB thing. LSU has got nobody that is as good a running back as Mike Hart. The guy was a 4 year starter, and broke every rushing record at Michigan.

I don't know how that got into this thread but I was just discussing it in another. Take a look at these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcUVLK4T9YI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijn0Wlu5Y-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RDeHRXdVEs&NR=1

I am pretty willing to bet that if Keiland Williams stays healthy he's going to be more coveted by the pros come draft time than Hart is going to be.

The thing to take note of is he displays that kind of quickness and accelleration at 226 pounds (Hart was listed at 202). This guy is a monster. He's bigger, faster, and more agile than Hart.

It's just a question of him getting more touches after having had to wait his turn while playing for an extremely talented program. And he's probably going to get that next season.

[seantaylor]

I don't know how that got into this thread but I was just discussing it in another. Take a look at these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcUVLK4T9YI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijn0Wlu5Y-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RDeHRXdVEs&NR=1

I am pretty willing to bet that if Keiland Williams stays healthy he's going to be more coveted by the pros come draft time than Hart is going to be.

The thing to take note of is he displays that kind of quickness and accelleration at 226 pounds (Hart was listed at 202). This guy is a monster. He's bigger, faster, and more agile than Hart.

It's just a question of him getting more touches after having had to wait his turn while playing for an extremely talented program. And he's probably going to get that next season.

The guy couldn't even start over a fullback. None of those guys are even close to Hart. Hart will be a running back in the mold of Stephen Alexander with way more speed. I'm not sure LSU has ever had a good RB in the NFL. I didn't see any speed on those clips. 4.6 guy tops.

[blueballs]

The guy couldn't even start over a fullback. None of those guys are even close to Hart. Hart will be a running back in the mold of Stephen Alexander with way more speed. I'm not sure LSU has ever had a good RB in the NFL. I didn't see any speed on those clips. 4.6 guy tops.

How about Joseph Addai of the Colts or Kevin Faulk of the Patriots?

Regarding LSI vs ASU though... the biggest mismatch in that game appears to be LSU's o-line against ASU's d-line. ASU really struggled against the run last year and LSU brings back a lot of experience, size and depth. I believe LSU will be able to run on the Appies which will then put App's relatively inexperienced secondary in bad situations. Not only that but if LSU can run the ball effectively it willwear down App due to lack of depth and keep Edwards and Co on the sidelines, where they are a non-factor.

It isn't about the relative strengths of one opponent (LSU and Michigan) vs each other, it is about how one team matches up against another. App matched up good against Michigan because of speed on offense, combined with their offensive scheme and the fact that Michigan had suffered heavy losses on defense from the year before.

LSU is undeniably a faster team on both sides of the ball than Michigan, and will match up against App's offense way better than Michigan, and brings back a lot of experience and depth on both lines. That spells trouble for App. App had to sore over 30 to defeat Michigan... the chances of their being able to do that against LSU are pretty slim, but Any Given Saturday, right?

[McNeese75]

The guy couldn't even start over a fullback. None of those guys are even close to Hart. Hart will be a running back in the mold of Stephen Alexander with way more speed. I'm not sure LSU has ever had a good RB in the NFL. I didn't see any speed on those clips. 4.6 guy tops.

Line em up, I'll put my money on the ponys in purple and gold xnodx

[JohnStOnge]

The guy couldn't even start over a fullback. None of those guys are even close to Hart. Hart will be a running back in the mold of Stephen Alexander with way more speed. I'm not sure LSU has ever had a good RB in the NFL. I didn't see any speed on those clips. 4.6 guy tops.


We're getting sidetracked but I don't think you're being objective if you can watch those clips and watch him beat the angles by DBs like he did and conclude he doesn't have speed. BTW, NFLDraftScout rates Hart's "average" 40 time at 4.57 and Keiland Williams' at 4.52.

That doesn't definitively prove Williams is a little faster. We'll have a better idea about that after Hart goes through the NFL combine then Williams goes through it next year or the year after.

But look at what Williams did on that swing pass play when the Auburn DB had him cut off at the sideline. Just kind of deadleged it then accellerated right by a DB on a defense that finished 6th nationally in both total and scoring defense like he was playing against an 8th grader. Good grief man, open your eyes.

[89Hen]

I think it matters if you have 1 NC or multipble NC's in any sport. It forever changes the perspective of both the program and heightens the university's profile. I can recall recently, when talking to football coaches at the FBS level, how the first thing they mention or show recruits is the NC that the school won.
I'm not buying it. You think Idaho State's (no offense Bengal fans) NC trophy from 20+ years ago is more impressive to a recruit than say the program and facilities of a UNI or McNeese?

[furman94]

Hey! A trophy from 20 years ago isn't a bad thing!

[D1scout]

I'm not buying it. You think Idaho State's (no offense Bengal fans) NC trophy from 20+ years ago is more impressive to a recruit than say the program and facilities of a UNI or McNeese?

No! I just said I think it matters and helps a program's profile for a long, long time.:)

[D1B]

No! I just said I think it matters and helps a program's profile for a long, long time.:)

It matter's little now and helps for a short, short time - if not followed by additional successes.

[D1B]

I'm not buying it. You think Idaho State's (no offense Bengal fans) NC trophy from 20+ years ago is more impressive to a recruit than say the program and facilities of a UNI or McNeese?

xoutofrepx

[89Hen]

No! I just said I think it matters and helps a program's profile for a long, long time.:)
Yes, but then it can turn into somewhat of a detriment IMO. It becomes a symbol of times gone by... that your program aint what it used to be. xtwocentsx

[AndrewFU21]

I was three years old. But a pumped three-year-old I was...

I have deemed 2008 the year of fruition...I got engaged, I'll graduate from Furman, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz will nostalgically pitch the Braves to a second World Series, and Furman will celebrate 20 years with a second national championship.

That would feel good for a very long time...30 championship games and Furman is still the only private school (and the smallest) to take home the title. To have two would be golden. To do so against App would be pure ecstasy.

But (not to be overdramatic), I think some part of Furman football died in the semis in '05 at App. That was THE YEAR. The killer instinct, never-say-die attitude just vanished after that. That is, until the last three games this past season.

Most of all I've been hoping we'd win one while I'm in school here, because that would be the most sweet. We were sooooooo close my freshman year, and yes I was there that fateful day at Kidd Brewer. I always try to move on from losses, but that one still hurts, bad. Now I have one more season before I graduate, but I'll settle for FU winning at least another title before I die :) .

[Cap'n Cat]

Yes, but then it can turn into somewhat of a detriment IMO. It becomes a symbol of times gone by... that your program aint what it used to be. xtwocentsx


Perhaps, Hen. Nevertheless, I admire them and their accomplishment. It doesn't seem, for example, reading AGS for four years, that EKU's championship has diminished respect for that school. Big Sky bias? :D

[Peems]

Perhaps, Hen. Nevertheless, I admire them and their accomplishment. It doesn't seem, for example, reading AGS for four years, that EKU's championship has diminished respect for that school. Big Sky bias? :D

xlolx xlolxxbowx xbowx

xoutofrepx

[BULLDOG8180]

we had our chance in 1992 after we beat Arkansas and Army and were rated #1 in 1AA football. However, beating Marshall was too much for anyone and I am glad they moved on.

We did lose to Marshall that year, but it was Youngstown St. that put us out of the playoffs.

[D1scout]

Yes, but then it can turn into somewhat of a detriment IMO. It becomes a symbol of times gone by... that your program aint what it used to be. xtwocentsx

89Hen, your point is well taken such as in the cases of Syracuse University and Notre Dame University and probably Maryland too. Maybe, not so much for ND because they won so many of them, although not within the past two decades. But, nevertheless, Maryland is still pretty proud of their one-time aaccomplishment. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

But, nevertheless, Maryland is still pretty proud of their one-time aaccomplishment. xcoffeex
And actually in the case of Maryland, I like the way they are using it... "we want another one". UM has invested a lot in their program and it's believable coming from them. But from somebody who hasn't made improvements the facilities, hasn't made any great hires, hasn't been to the playoffs in a long time... it's just not believable.

[bluehenbillk]

Joining this thread late & I apologize if this was already said, but sometimes the longer the wait, the sweeter it is when you get there.

2 examples, one 1-AA, one not:

UD hosted semi-final games in '97 against McNeese St & '00 against Georgia Southern, losing both which really bothered a lot of Hens fans. Beating Wofford in the semi's in '03 & then just destroying a weak Colgate squad almost made those 2 previous losses bearable. Watching the students tear down goalposts brought tears to my eyes.

The Boston Red Sox finally winning in '04, not much else needs to be said about that...

[Cap'n Cat]

Joining this thread late & I apologize if this was already said, but sometimes the longer the wait, the sweeter it is when you get there.

2 examples, one 1-AA, one not:

UD hosted semi-final games in '97 against McNeese St & '00 against Georgia Southern, losing both which really bothered a lot of Hens fans. Beating Wofford in the semi's in '03 & then just destroying a weak Colgate squad almost made those 2 previous losses bearable. Watching the students tear down goalposts brought tears to my eyes.

The Boston Red Sox finally winning in '04, not much else needs to be said about that...

One day, maybe Cap'n Cat will be shedding those tears, Bill. Delaware has to drop football, first.

xrolleyesx




:p

[Chi Panther]

McNeese does have those two heartbreaker championship games, but I chose UNI because their success in the playoffs goes back farther than MSU's. Here are some of UNI's good runs...

In '85, they lose to GSU by 7 points in the semis (lost to the national champs)
In '87, they lose in the semis in overtime (lost to the national champs)
In '90 they lose in first round by 17
In '91 they lose in the quarterfinals by 27
In '92 they lose in the semis by 12
In '95 they lose in the quarterfinals by 17
In '96 they lose in the semis by 17 (lost to the national champs)
In '01 they lose in the semis by 38 (lost to the national champs)
In '05 they lose in the national championship by 5
In '07 they have an outstanding season and lose by 12 in quarterfinals

At least, I think those listed in bold can be counted as "near misses", even though they didn't make it to the NC in all of them.

Thanks for the props!

The loss to Delaware this year was the most heart crushing game I have watched.

I hope the Cowboys and Panthers end the heartache soon. The worst possible senario would be both teams playing each other. The losing end of that game would go into depression....xbawlingx

[D1scout]

And actually in the case of Maryland, I like the way they are using it... "we want another one". UM has invested a lot in their program and it's believable coming from them. But from somebody who hasn't made improvements the facilities, hasn't made any great hires, hasn't been to the playoffs in a long time... it's just not believable.

Hen, didn't Maryland just add to their stadium capacity?xconfusedx And their current weight room/cafeteria/athlete support facility is impressive. If not recently new, it certinly is a well keep facility!xnodx

[blackNgold93]

.....your school has six or four or three or just one?

I admire EKU and Montana State and Southern Illinois and WKU and Delaware's titles as much as I admire YSU, GSU and Appy's. Even if you have one, it's something to hang your heart on. Hope my guys get one some day. If so, I'll die a happy Cat.

Just thinkin' out loud.

:)

The problem is that once you've got one, you want another one even worse. Luckily we haven't experienced our hangover/withdrawl YET, but we will eventually. Nothing lasts forever.

The first one is your most memorable, but the most important one is the NEXT one.