Patsy (Recruiting) Ratings - Lehigh

[carney2]

LEHIGH TOTAL = 74

QUALITY = 30: Overall, 13 (48%) were rated by Rivals and/or Scout. Two recruits received 2-star ratings from one or the other of the recruiting services, but strangely were not verified by the other where they were shut out. Last year, 10 (34%) of the recruits were rated.

CLASS SIZE = 5: 27 recruits.

DISTRIBUTION = 9

SPEED = 12: Four recruits earned speed points based on the information available.

TRIGGER = 1: One QB recruit, and he was rated by both services.

JUMBO =8: All OL recruits (5) were 275 or greater, and all DL recruits (3) were 250 or greater.

NEEDS = 9:

Offensive Line = 5 (of 5): As noted, 5 OL recruits and all came in at 275 or more. One is rated a 2-star recruit by Scout.
Quarterback = 2 (of 4): Only one.
Defensive Back = 2 (of 3): Four DB recruits, one rated, and all around 6 feet tall.

Patsy Points to-date:

1. Lehigh 74
2. Fordham 71
3. Lafayette 58

[LehighFan11]

LEHIGH TOTAL = 74

QUALITY = 30: Overall, 13 (48%) were rated by Rivals and/or Scout. Two recruits received 2-star ratings from one or the other of the recruiting services, but strangely were not verified by the other where they were shut out. Last year, 10 (34%) of the recruits were rated.

CLASS SIZE = 5: 27 recruits.

DISTRIBUTION = 9

SPEED = 12: Four recruits earned speed points based on the information available.

TRIGGER = 1: One QB recruit, and he was rated by both services.

JUMBO =8: All OL recruits (5) were 275 or greater, and all DL recruits (3) were 250 or greater.

NEEDS = 9:

Offensive Line = 5 (of 5): As noted, 5 OL recruits and all came in at hit 275 or more. One is rated a 2-star recruit by Scout.
Quarterback = 2 (of 4): Only one.
Defensive Back = 2 (of 3): Four DB recruits, one rated, and all around 6 feet tall.

Patsy Points to-date:

1. Lehigh 74
2. Fordham 71
3. Lafayette 58

Looks great Carney, thanks alot. I know Cody Connare was rated 2* by rivals, who was the other player rated as a 2*? Seems like a good class that adressed most of the needs. I love to see lehigh bullking up on the lines and getting taller at WR and DB.

[Lehigh74]

After losing 4 years in a row, I am certainly not gloating over the fact that Lehigh's class is 16 Patsy points better than Lafayette's. Hopefully, however, this strong recruiting class is an indication that Lehigh is not ready to roll over and let Lafayette continue to beat us like a drum. Is it possible that the rivalry is destined to get even more intense than it already is?

[LehighFan11]

After losing 4 years in a row, I am certainly not gloating over the fact that Lehigh's class is 16 Patsy points better than Lafayette's. Hopefully, however, this strong recruiting class is an indication that Lehigh is not ready to roll over and let Lafayette continue to beat us like a drum. Is it possible that the rivalry is destined to get even more intense than it already is?

Yes they have won 4 years in a row, but hardly "rolling over". Only the game 2 years ago at Lafayette was a beat down. But, of course this isn't about he past and its about the future, hopefully this recuriting class will go a long way in turning things around.

[carney2]

Looks great Carney, thanks alot. I know Cody Connare was rated 2* by rivals, who was the other player rated as a 2*? Seems like a good class that adressed most of the needs. I love to see lehigh bullking up on the lines and getting taller at WR and DB.

Don't thank me. It is as objective a system as I could create while considering as many of the major factors as possible. It is what it is.

Cody Connare, DL Rated 2-stars by Rivals, but not mentioned by Scout
Will Reich, OL Rated 2-stars by Scout, but not mentioned by Rivals

As I stated, a little strange that, at 2-stars, these guys don't get at least a nod from the other service.

[ngineer]

Don't disagree. Especially with the distribution. I think Coen and the staff addressed alot of needs and hopefully we'll see the results sooner than later. For next year. the key will be how quickly our QB, whoever it will be, acclimates to the position and duties.

[Tribe4SF]

Don't thank me. It is as objective a system as I could create while considering as many of the major factors as possible. It is what it is.

Cody Connare, DL Rated 2-stars by Rivals, but not mentioned by Scout
Will Reich, OL Rated 2-stars by Scout, but not mentioned by Rivals

As I stated, a little strange that, at 2-stars, these guys don't get at least a nod from the other service.

Not strange, or unusual. It just means nobody submitted any information on them. Getting a Rivals profile is not difficult, and has nothing to do with being a good prospect.

[NYHOYA]

Not strange, or unusual. It just means nobody submitted any information on them. Getting a Rivals profile is not difficult, and has nothing to do with being a good prospect.

You are correct it is not difficult to get a rivals or scout profile, often simply attending certain combines or just having your coach submit some info can get you a profile. However, getting two stars does mean something. If a player has one or no stars it means they probably just attended some camp/combine or submitted some info (usually one star/no stars are one in the same, I dont think rivals actually ever awards a one star, they simply use no stars as there default for ungraded/unranked players, meanwhile scout I believe uses a one star ranking in the same way as a default for unranked/ungraded players). If they get two stars or more it means that staff at rivals/scout have seen the players tape and have decided they are talented enough to receive a ranking.

In short; one star/no star = player being listed on the site has nothing to do with his talent.
Two+ stars = player was awarded the ranking because of his talent.

[PLLB]

using rivals or scout.com to rank the recruiting classes is a lost cause in my opinion.

[MDFAN]

Amen PLLB, forget the stars...lets see what they did on the field.

[Andy]

In today's Call, Groller details the recruitment by LU of three possible difference makers. For a league caught between the Ivies and scholarship programs, IMO this is the kind of extra effort, shrewd recruiting that it takes to compete. I have to give the rival their due here.

http://www.mcall.com/sports/college/all-s-lehigh.6279269feb20,0,5226843.story

[Fordham]

Congrats Engineer fans. Sounds like a great class.

So, who's next to announce for their Patsie rating?

[ngineer]

In today's Morning Call, Coen was very upbeat not only about the class and how they discovered some of these guys, but the QB from Michigan, especially. Broke his arm at beginning of senior year and many schools backed off. He seemed to imply that he put him in the same mold as Phil Stambaugh,Lehigh QB of late 1990's that lead the big turn around with the playoff run; and that he possessed the tools to push the current crop of candidates who will be battling it out this Spring.

[Pard4Life]

After losing 4 years in a row, I am certainly not gloating over the fact that Lehigh's class is 16 Patsy points better than Lafayette's. Hopefully, however, this strong recruiting class is an indication that Lehigh is not ready to roll over and let Lafayette continue to beat us like a drum. Is it possible that the rivalry is destined to get even more intense than it already is?

Not sure, it was very intense back in the day in terms of schenannigans.

BUT in terms of quality on the field, I think the past few years have been the best ever... 2004, 2005?

The only way it can get more intense are if both programs are playoff and national championship caliber each year.

[dasteelers]

How good is holy cross going to be this year with the qb and all those seniors coming back ???
What about that wide open offense that hardly ever uses a TE ??
Don't forget the 22 QUALITY kids they just brought in to fill the holes. Not nearly as many (not half) as the 3 previous years. Be interested to see what the board thinks of the 3 items above ? thank xbowx

[LehighFan11]

How good is holy cross going to be this year with the qb and all those seniors coming back ???
What about that wide open offense that hardly ever uses a TE ??
Don't forget the 22 QUALITY kids they just brought in to fill the holes. Not nearly as many (not half) as the 3 previous years. Be interested to see what the board thinks of the 3 items above ? thank xbowx

so i guess we shouldnt play the season? hardly

[ngineer]

Not sure, it was very intense back in the day in terms of schenannigans.

BUT in terms of quality on the field, I think the past few years have been the best ever... 2004, 2005?

The only way it can get more intense are if both programs are playoff and national championship caliber each year.

I guess we could erect a huge canvas canopy over our respective stadiums for The Game. That would certainly make the game more 'in tents'..:D ....I know, my badxspankx xspankx Couldn't help it.:o

[ngineer]

How good is holy cross going to be this year with the qb and all those seniors coming back ???
What about that wide open offense that hardly ever uses a TE ??
Don't forget the 22 QUALITY kids they just brought in to fill the holes. Not nearly as many (not half) as the 3 previous years. Be interested to see what the board thinks of the 3 items above ? thank xbowx

I think Holy Cross will be the preseason favorite come August based upon their QB coming back. While everyone has certain holes and question marks, having a stud QB settles a lot of questions. However, I don't see the Crusaders in any kind of dominating position. 2008 could well be another one of those multiple champion years.

[Fordham]

I think Holy Cross will be the preseason favorite come August based upon their QB coming back. While everyone has certain holes and question marks, having a stud QB settles a lot of questions.

I agree that '08 is going to incredibly competitive, but with all we have coming back, our incoming recruiting class and how many frosh and sophs played such key roles for us, I think we've earned that pole position spot for next year. Big picture it obviously means nothing and I think having a target on our backs is going to be radically different than being able to sneak up on teams as we did this past season. For pre-season rankings, though, I find it hard to think that any one has leapfrogged over us this off season.

[LCFan21]

I think Holy Cross will be the preseason favorite come August based upon their QB coming back. While everyone has certain holes and question marks, having a stud QB settles a lot of questions. However, I don't see the Crusaders in any kind of dominating position. 2008 could well be another one of those multiple champion years.


AGREED! Pre-season should look something like this:

Fordham
HC
Lafayette
Colgate / Lehigh
Georgetown/ Bucknell

[LehighFan11]

I agree that '08 is going to incredibly competitive, but with all we have coming back, our incoming recruiting class and how many frosh and sophs played such key roles for us, I think we've earned that pole position spot for next year. Big picture it obviously means nothing and I think having a target on our backs is going to be radically different than being able to sneak up on teams as we did this past season. For pre-season rankings, though, I find it hard to think that any one has leapfrogged over us this off season.

I agree, Fordham is the clear favorite. Of course the league is wide open to any winner. After seeing what fordham did last year, im not counting anyone out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

AGREED! Pre-season should look something like this:

Fordham
HC
Lafayette
Colgate / Lehigh
Georgetown/ Bucknell

Y'all might not want to be fighting for the pole position - for the last SEVEN years, the team in the pole position didn't win the PL... :p

Last year was Fordham, of course, who was picked to finish sixth, followed closely by Holy Cross, picked to finish fourth.

[PLLB]

Fordham
HC
Lafayette
Colgate / Lehigh
Georgetown/ Bucknell


Fordham
HC
Colgate
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell
Georgetown

[LCFan21]

Fordham
HC
Lafayette
Colgate / Lehigh
Georgetown/ Bucknell


Fordham
HC
Colgate
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell
Georgetown

I think Colgate has some major issues to resolve prior to putting them ahead pre-season - if anything they would be on the same line not ahead in my opinion IF the issues get resolved.

[ngineer]

No huge disagreements. I think any of the 'big 5' could win the PL and did not mean to slight Fordham, and perhaps am giving too much emphasis to Randolph. Just more of 'gut' feeling, but I would have HC and FU slotted at 1 and 1a, with Lafayette, Lehigh, and Colgate right behind--assuming Scott is returning.

[PLLB]

I think Colgate has some major issues to resolve prior to putting them ahead pre-season - if anything they would be on the same line not ahead in my opinion IF the issues get resolved.

there are resolved

[carney2]

This discussion deserves its own thread, but as long as we've begun, my dented, battered and unreliable crystal ball sees it as

1. Fordham (It's not like they've lost a step in the off season. Just don't use ink when you write them in the numero uno slot.)
2. Holy Cross (You just cannot deny Randolph, but is he enough? A 5th place finish should not surprise.)
3. Colgate/Lafayette/Lehigh (Pick one. Each has its problems.)
6. Georgetown (You hate to rely on freshmen, but apparently this year's recruiting class should be enough to get the Hoyas out of Crapville immediately.)
7. Bucknell (Unless Landis has changed his philosophy and panned for some gold in the Class of 2012, the Buffalo could be setting up a permanent camp in the basement.)

[Fordham]

This discussion deserves its own thread, but as long as we've begun, my dented, battered and unreliable crystal ball sees it as

1. Fordham (It's not like they've lost a step in the off season. Just don't use ink when you write them in the numero uno slot.)
2. Holy Cross (You just cannot deny Randolph, but is he enough? A 5th place finish should not surprise.)
3. Colgate/Lafayette/Lehigh (Pick one. Each has its problems.)
6. Georgetown (You hate to rely on freshmen, but apparently this year's recruiting class should be enough to get the Hoyas out of Crapville immediately.)
7. Bucknell (Unless Landis has changed his philosophy and panned for some gold in the Class of 2012, the Buffalo could be setting up a permanent camp in the basement.)

I'll have what he's having.

[Andy]

This discussion deserves its own thread, but as long as we've begun, my dented, battered and unreliable crystal ball sees it as

1. Fordham (It's not like they've lost a step in the off season. Just don't use ink when you write them in the numero uno slot.)
2. Holy Cross (You just cannot deny Randolph, but is he enough? A 5th place finish should not surprise.)
3. Colgate/Lafayette/Lehigh (Pick one. Each has its problems.)
6. Georgetown (You hate to rely on freshmen, but apparently this year's recruiting class should be enough to get the Hoyas out of Crapville immediately.)
7. Bucknell (Unless Landis has changed his philosophy and panned for some gold in the Class of 2012, the Buffalo could be setting up a permanent camp in the basement.)

1) Fordham--excellent QB, playmakers return, pre-season fav.

2) Lafayette--Curley is damned good, Mo White back from injury. Lose a few all-leaguers but have experienced players to fill in and lots of key playmakers return.

3)Colgate--if not Scott, Eachus. Although many Gate followers have predicted national title contention for the Raiders in '08, with an unknown quantity at QB, I'm not going there.

4)HC--I drop them down due to loss of Gough and three excellent starting receivers.

5)Lehigh--excellent D shaping up--2 top notch LBs and good DL. Inexperience at QB is the stumbling block IMO.

6)BU--Good news--lots of young players coming back. Bad news--lots of young players coming back. Experience at QB a plus.

7)GT--awesome recruiting class.

Realistically, two through five anybody's guess.

Next stop--spring prospectuses.

[breezy]

I concur that Fordham has a lot of returning starters and a good recruiting class. However, IMHO, this year's recruits will mean very little to the 2008 race. On the basis of its win last year and returning starters, Fordham deserves the pre-season pick as #1. On the flip side, Fordham did not really steamroller anyone last year; many of its wins were close games, and if the ball bounces a little differently this year, those wins could turn into losses.

HC also has a lot of returning starters. Two (not three) of its starting receivers graduated but every other starter on offense is back except for OT Dan Nolan. The defense will miss Gough but there are very capable players ready to step up to replace the other graduating defensive starters. The run defense will be stronger based on the return of the starting nose tackle (injured early last season) and other starters who will be a year older and stronger.

Agree that Lafayette, Colgate and Lehigh are in the middle of the pack, and Bucknell and Georgetown continue to fight to avoid the cellar.

*****

I predict HC will not do very well in the Patsy ratings with its recruiting class when it is announced. According to Coach Gilmore, it numbers only 23 recruits -- HC has 85 upperclassmen on its spring roster so it did not need a big class. Some of the linemen are smaller than Carney's weight standards. However, you will see at least two very solid QBs, some big receivers and more speed across the board.

[TheValleyRaider]

I wouldn't exactly call Relph an "unknown quantity at QB". He's no Randolph, but he's pretty steady back there. The issues Colgate has revolve around Scott's situation, a 2nd WR to complement Simonds and Pinkham's replacement as DC. Pinkham's been great for Colgate, but Biddle is a defensive coach himself, and I have no reason to believe he won't find a good replacement (or just coach the D himself). I realize Scott's a great back, but we've got RBs. If Scott comes back, this team can run (no pun intended) with HC and Fordham at the top of the League. It may take a few games, but once they hit League play, Colgate will undoubtedly be ready.

Are we National Title contenders like someone mentioned above? I don't think so. However, I'd put the Raiders behind Fordham and Holy Cross in a preseason ranking, but a step ahead of Lehigh and Lafayette xtwocentsx

[dasteelers]

i do not see georgetown doing anything. i am from the area. coaches are young and indicated to many recruiting families that no senior would play this year .WOW. NO RECRUITS FROM 3 STATE AREA. WOW. Maryland has close to half of its recruits within 3 hrs drive. with the education that is offered there they should be able to recruit in area. maybe recruiting coordinator is to blame. usually your best coordinator or 2 is handling local area. asst coaches.... very young.. some did not even play the GAME

[carney2]

i do not see georgetown doing anything. i am from the area. coaches are young and indicated to many recruiting families that no senior would play this year .WOW. NO RECRUITS FROM 3 STATE AREA. WOW. Maryland has close to half of its recruits within 3 hrs drive. with the education that is offered there they should be able to recruit in area. maybe recruiting coordinator is to blame. usually your best coordinator or 2 is handling local area. asst coaches.... very young.. some did not even play the GAME

As befits their reputation, Georgetown seems to be taking a national view to their recruiting - an approach that has done very well for the Ivys. Nothing from the 3-state area is not a big deal in this case. From the tone of your post I am betting that the noise we hear when Kelly announces the class of 2012 will be your jaw hitting the floor. All indications are that the Hoyas will introduce their best class since...well, since maybe the leather helmet days.

[Andy]

I wouldn't exactly call Relph an "unknown quantity at QB". He's no Randolph, but he's pretty steady back there. The issues Colgate has revolve around Scott's situation, a 2nd WR to complement Simonds and Pinkham's replacement as DC. Pinkham's been great for Colgate, but Biddle is a defensive coach himself, and I have no reason to believe he won't find a good replacement (or just coach the D himself). I realize Scott's a great back, but we've got RBs. If Scott comes back, this team can run (no pun intended) with HC and Fordham at the top of the League. It may take a few games, but once they hit League play, Colgate will undoubtedly be ready.

Are we National Title contenders like someone mentioned above? I don't think so. However, I'd put the Raiders behind Fordham and Holy Cross in a preseason ranking, but a step ahead of Lehigh and Lafayette xtwocentsx

Holy smokes, I forgot Relph had another year. He played well against us (LC) and I met his Dad post game, you'd think I'd remember him. Bad mistake, I apologize.

The National Title contender predictions were made in a thread on your Voy board by several posters (including a few whose knowledge I greatly respect), although when I asked whom the QB would be the answer was the transfer from Tulane, now a TE, I believe.

[TheValleyRaider]

Holy smokes, I forgot Relph had another year. He played well against us (LC) and I met his Dad post game, you'd think I'd remember him. Bad mistake, I apologize.

The National Title contender predictions were made in a thread on your Voy board by several posters (including a few whose knowledge I greatly respect), although when I asked whom the QB would be the answer was the transfer from Tulane, now a TE, I believe.

Well, I know 13's been pegging '08, '09, '10 as Title-contending years, but I'm slightly less optimistic. Not saying it couldn't happen, or that I'm not rooting for it (I most certainly am xthumbsupx), but I'm trying to keep the expectations closer to "playoff birth" than "National Champs" xpeacex

The Voy board is a tough place to navigate, and it's sometimes hard to keep track of one opinion vs. another, people's consistency and reliability, etc. Relph is back, plus Fucillo, Sullivan and Babb in the wings. I actually feel pretty good about the QB position for the next few seasons. Add Scott (or this Eachus kid if he's as good as advertised), and a #2 WR, and you've got a Colgate team very close to the title xnodx

[PLLB]

Well, I know 13's been pegging '08, '09, '10 as Title-contending years, but I'm slightly less optimistic. Not saying it couldn't happen, or that I'm not rooting for it (I most certainly am ), but I'm trying to keep the expectations closer to "playoff birth" than "National Champs"

The Voy board is a tough place to navigate, and it's sometimes hard to keep track of one opinion vs. another, people's consistency and reliability, etc. Relph is back, plus Fucillo, Sullivan and Babb in the wings. I actually feel pretty good about the QB position for the next few seasons. Add Scott (or this Eachus kid if he's as good as advertised), and a #2 WR, and you've got a Colgate team very close to the title



more importantly for a team that likes to run the ball 4 out of 5 starters on back on the o-line. That includes the two best offensive tackles in the league. Who ever ends up at the tailback position should feel pretty comfortable running the football.

[PLLB]

I have no reason to believe he won't find a good replacement (or just coach the D himself).

I think people will be impressed with the new DC

[ngineer]

Morning Call article today mentioned Eachus going to Colgate and the past rumors about wrestling. Interesting comments from Lehigh HC Coen who said they had tried to recruit Eachus (as did other PL and Ivy schools), but that Nate wanted to go farther away from home. Not an unusual interest in many students. However, Coen, while acknowledging that Eachus received much notoriety as Hazelton's tailback, believes he is a better defensive player and thinks his future is as a linebacker. Regardless, the Raiders got a good one.

[LCFan21]

One thing is for sure - it's going to be a very interesting year with this many quality teams in the mix - Fordham has good reason to enter very confident - HC chomping at the bit to get another chance after coming up just short - LC confident they found the right mix to build upon after another strong finish in 07 - Colgate with it's steady D - strong O-line/ running game and capable QB with experience - Lehigh obviously very hungry to prove themselves and out of all of the teams above has the most question marks to answer right now BUT still very capable - can't wait!

[LehighFan11]

I'm sorry did i miss something? Why are earth are we talking about Colgate for the national title?

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm sorry did i miss something? Why are earth are we talking about Colgate for the national title?

Up in Hamilton we're not, but if you want to, go right ahead xsmiley_wix :p xlolx

[Fordham]

Well, I know 13's been pegging '08, '09, '10 as Title-contending years, but I'm slightly less optimistic. Not saying it couldn't happen, or that I'm not rooting for it (I most certainly am xthumbsupx), but I'm trying to keep the expectations closer to "playoff birth" than "National Champs" xpeacex

The Voy board is a tough place to navigate, and it's sometimes hard to keep track of one opinion vs. another, people's consistency and reliability, etc. Relph is back, plus Fucillo, Sullivan and Babb in the wings. I actually feel pretty good about the QB position for the next few seasons. Add Scott (or this Eachus kid if he's as good as advertised), and a #2 WR, and you've got a Colgate team very close to the title xnodx


How long ago were those '08. 09, 10 claims, though? I check in on occasion on your board and can't remember seeing any Nat'l title talk.

Given our collective playoff records since '03, I would think any PL teams talking NC would be an open invite to ridicule. Let's hope one of us gets out of the 1st round next year as a good goal for the group. I do think that in order to do that, one of us has to really take care of business in our OOC skid and also go with 1 loss at most, in conference. That's the only way I can see a PL team getting a 2nd or 3rd place team from another conference instead of getting a first place and nat'l top 5 type team in Rd 1. Even then it would still be tough, especially if you look at which teams were 2, 3 or 4 in last year's CAA.