Drake to Open at Lehigh September 6?

[ngineer]

It has been heard that the Drake Bulldogs will travel to Goodman Stadium for Lehigh's home opener on September 6. Liberty was originally scheduled to appear as part of a home and home from when Lehigh traveled to Liberty a few years ago; however, Liberty backed out when they were able to obtain a more lucrative gig.

Lehigh was supposed to play Drake about ten years ago, but that was cancelled for some reason. Lehigh will make a visit to Drake in 2010 as part of the series. From my perspective this is an interesting game. Drake will have a new coaching staff, so it will be difficult for Lehigh to plan for what the Bulldogs will be doing scheme-wise. Old tape won't be much benefit. Drake had a very up and down year in 2007, much like Lehigh, pulling off some very nice wins, but also dropping some games that left heads scratching.

I know we have some Bulldogs on AGS, so I, and I'm sure some of my Engineering/Mountain Hawk fans, would be interested to find out what Drake will be bringing to the table in September. In the event any Bulldogs are going to make the trek, let me know.

[Seawolf97]

Interesting match up

[LehighFan11]

What conference does Drake play in? I know teams are different for basketball and football conferences out there.

[ngineer]

Drake is from the Pioneer Football League (PFL). They are located in Des Moines, Iowa..where Lehigh will be traveling in 2010. One of our longer trips in recent memory.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Didn't Drake beat UNI last year? Hopefully they're going through a rebuilding year as i would like Lehigh to have a tuneup for heading down to 'Nova. The Hawks desperately need to start a season on the right foot and build up some confidence.

[Franks Tanks]

Didn't Drake beat UNI last year? Hopefully they're going through a rebuilding year as i would like Lehigh to have a tuneup for heading down to 'Nova. The Hawks desperately need to start a season on the right foot and build up some confidence.

Drake beat Illinois State in there opener last year. They played UNI as well but got crushed.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Drake beat Illinois State in there opener last year. They played UNI as well but got crushed.

Ok, i knew it was one of the better Gateway teams. Good opener IMO. Lehigh's done the NEC teams and it's nice to seem them branch out a little although i'm sure the pickens' were pretty slim.

[ngineer]

Ok, i knew it was one of the better Gateway teams. Good opener IMO. Lehigh's done the NEC teams and it's nice to seem them branch out a little although i'm sure the pickens' were pretty slim.

Yes. With the late drop out by Liberty, there had to be some scrambling. On balance, I think it is a good opener. Drake is capable of playing very well as shown by their win over Illinois State last year. They had an erratic season with some lopsided losses to UNI and San Diego, but gave Dayton a good game before losing by 7. If we get our QB situation solidified we should have a fairly potent team. No idea what Drake has coming back--need some of our Drake bretheran here to fill us in.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yes. With the late drop out by Liberty, there had to be some scrambling. On balance, I think it is a good opener. Drake is capable of playing very well as shown by their win over Illinois State last year. They had an erratic season with some lopsided losses to UNI and San Diego, but gave Dayton a good game before losing by 7. If we get our QB situation solidified we should have a fairly potent team. No idea what Drake has coming back--need some of our Drake bretheran here to fill us in.

I know they had a very good RB who's name i will not attempt to spell. I believe he graduated though.

[Franks Tanks]

I know they had a very good RB who's name i will not attempt to spell. I believe he graduated though.

He did graduate, but your right it is a good opening game. More competitive than a MArist, but still winnable and a potential confidence builder.

[PantherRob82]

Scott Phaydavong was the RB. I believe he did graduate.

Seems like a weird game. A lot of travel for what could be a lopsided game. Being a non-scholly, I don't think Drake can consistently compete, but I could be wrong. :)

[DetroitFlyer]

Scott Phaydavong was the RB. I believe he did graduate.

Seems like a weird game. A lot of travel for what could be a lopsided game. Being a non-scholly, I don't think Drake can consistently compete, but I could be wrong. :)


Let me help you.... YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

[ngineer]

I think Drake could give us problems. I agree we should be favored, but Drake showed last year that they have enough bite to go with the bark. With a new coaching staff it will impossible to plan for them. A good challenge for our coaches to coach on the fly.

[PantherRob82]

Let me help you.... YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

Well thanks for all the insight. You also thought Drake could hang with UNI if I remember correctly. I'm speaking as an unbiased FCS fan, you're speaking as a PFL homer. ;)

[DetroitFlyer]

Well thanks for all the insight. You also thought Drake could hang with UNI if I remember correctly. I'm speaking as an unbiased FCS fan, you're speaking as a PFL homer. ;)

Yep, feel free to keep living in your fantasy world. Try asking your league mate ISU if Drake can compete. By the way, I do not seem to recall a UNI playing for the championship.... Can you say over rated? What kind of a sissy team play indoors anyway? Afraid you might catch a cold, I guess....

[Go...gate]

Nice matchup.

[PantherRob82]

Yep, feel free to keep living in your fantasy world. Try asking your league mate ISU if Drake can compete. By the way, I do not seem to recall a UNI playing for the championship.... Can you say over rated? What kind of a sissy team play indoors anyway? Afraid you might catch a cold, I guess....

I never said Drake can't compete. I said that you predicted they could hang with us.

What does UNI playing for a chmpionship have to do with this thread?

We heard the sissy indoor team thing in 2005 at New Hampshire. We won and went to to the champsionship game.

A little insecure?

[PantherRob82]

I think Drake would be better off closer to home. Schedule someone from the Gateway or the OVC.

[ngineer]

I think Drake would be better off closer to home. Schedule someone from the Gateway or the OVC.

This was a late date get together. We got dropped by Liberty because of some payday game they got and have been out there fishing for a decent opener, which had to be at home because we already have 6 away games. Few teams this late in the season had open dates, and I'd much rather play a team from a different area of the country for a little change of pace. Also helps us do some comparison among our conferences since many of us know so little of each others' leagues.

[crunifan]

Yep, feel free to keep living in your fantasy world. Try asking your league mate ISU if Drake can compete. By the way, I do not seem to recall a UNI playing for the championship.... Can you say over rated? What kind of a sissy team play indoors anyway? Afraid you might catch a cold, I guess....

Where did Illinois State end up in the Gateway last year? Ohh, that's right...last. Well, second to last, but Indiana State doesn't really count, that has lately been a given.

You can call us overrated, but lets just remember how our second string annihilated your conference member and that while we have played for a championship, your conference can't even get a team into the playoffs.

Also, if you want to see if we are a sissy, come play us in our silly indoor dome we would love to add a cupcake win to our schedule.

[DetroitFlyer]

Where did Illinois State end up in the Gateway last year? Ohh, that's right...last. Well, second to last, but Indiana State doesn't really count, that has lately been a given.

You can call us overrated, but lets just remember how our second string annihilated your conference member and that while we have played for a championship, your conference can't even get a team into the playoffs.

Also, if you want to see if we are a sissy, come play us in our silly indoor dome we would love to add a cupcake win to our schedule.

Where did Drake end up in the PFL last season? 5/8.... Not too surprising that your second string did OK against them in 2007. Drake is a good PFL team that has had to endure coaching changes since Rob Ash left. All things considered, they did OK. Now that the coaching is stable, I expect them to be improved. Lehigh had a season very similar to Drake in 2007. Absolutely no reason to believe that Drake will not only be competitive in this game, but have a good chance to win. Lehigh is happy, Drake is happy, frankly, I do not give a you know what if any UNI fans are happy about this game. But, make smart you know what comments about Drake or the PFL, and I will let you have it with both barrels every time!

You are lucky that Dayton did not travel to your site for the first round game.... UNI would have gone home that night in a very bad mood. Be thankful that your Old Guard friends saved you from that "humilation" by shafting the PFL once again!

[LehighFan11]

Where did Drake end up in the PFL last season? 5/8.... Not too surprising that your second string did OK against them in 2007. Drake is a good PFL team that has had to endure coaching changes since Rob Ash left. All things considered, they did OK. Now that the coaching is stable, I expect them to be improved. Lehigh had a season very similar to Drake in 2007. Absolutely no reason to believe that Drake will not only be competitive in this game, but have a good chance to win. Lehigh is happy, Drake is happy, frankly, I do not give a you know what if any UNI fans are happy about this game. But, make smart you know what comments about Drake or the PFL, and I will let you have it with both barrels every time!

You are lucky that Dayton did not travel to your site for the first round game.... UNI would have gone home that night in a very bad mood. Be thankful that your Old Guard friends saved you from that "humilation" by shafting the PFL once again!

Dude take it somewhere else. Once your PFL proves something we will give them respect. You must earn respect, same thing PL did.

[DetroitFlyer]

Dude take it somewhere else. Once your PFL proves something we will give them respect. You must earn respect, same thing PL did.

Dude, check out the score of 2007's Dayton at Fordham game, (your 2007 champion by the way ), and then come talk to me about the PFL "earning" respect ! By the way, how did Lehigh do against Fordham last year?

[LehighFan11]

Dude, check out the score of 2007's Dayton at Fordham game, (your 2007 champion by the way ), and then come talk to me about the PFL "earning" respect ! By the way, how did Lehigh do against Fordham last year?

Congrats on beating the PL champ, I guess you got the PL while they are down. It is fair to say that Fordham was alot better by the end of the season compared to when Dayton beat them. As far as Lehigh v Fordham, yea Lehigh sucked last year, plain and simple.

[crunifan]

San Diego and Dayton must have combined their resources to offer a new class, "B**tching on Message Boards: Pissing off the Entire Internet Community."

[PantherRob82]

This was a late date get together. We got dropped by Liberty because of some payday game they got and have been out there fishing for a decent opener, which had to be at home because we already have 6 away games. Few teams this late in the season had open dates, and I'd much rather play a team from a different area of the country for a little change of pace. Also helps us do some comparison among our conferences since many of us know so little of each others' leagues.

It'll be a fun game. Don't get me wrong. Good to see new teams.

I was just discussing my thoughts on scheduling the game.

I also don't think it's smart for us to make 2 trips to Utah this year for what it's worth.

[PantherRob82]

Where did Drake end up in the PFL last season? 5/8.... Not too surprising that your second string did OK against them in 2007. Drake is a good PFL team that has had to endure coaching changes since Rob Ash left. All things considered, they did OK. Now that the coaching is stable, I expect them to be improved. Lehigh had a season very similar to Drake in 2007. Absolutely no reason to believe that Drake will not only be competitive in this game, but have a good chance to win. Lehigh is happy, Drake is happy, frankly, I do not give a you know what if any UNI fans are happy about this game. But, make smart you know what comments about Drake or the PFL, and I will let you have it with both barrels every time!

You are lucky that Dayton did not travel to your site for the first round game.... UNI would have gone home that night in a very bad mood. Be thankful that your Old Guard friends saved you from that "humilation" by shafting the PFL once again!

You never back your comments up with anything but rhetoric.

All I said is that I thought it was a bad deal for Drake to possibly travel that far to get blown out. Especially on a PFL budget.

Keep in mind we also destroyed Drake when Ash was there and things were stable. Last year was our 3rd straight beating of the Bulldogs.

If you want to talk trash, talk to us when Dayton beats an upper echelon team.

[PantherRob82]

Congrats on beating the PL champ, I guess you got the PL while they are down. It is fair to say that Fordham was alot better by the end of the season compared to when Dayton beat them. As far as Lehigh v Fordham, yea Lehigh sucked last year, plain and simple.

Dayton beat em fair and square. The PFL may not be too far off from the Patriot League and NEC. They have proven with a few wins that they can compete with the middle of the pack conferences, and even some lower teams in the top tier conferences.

[IaaScribe]

Just to correct the notion that Liberty backed out for a bigger payday. That didn't happen. Liberty dropped the game because it didn't want a road game Sept. 6, which would have given them four straight road games -- at Lehigh, at Western Carolina, at Youngstown State, at Coastal Carolina.

Liberty isn't playing any FBS games this season. Instead, it scheduled a DII home game in that slot after North Carolina Central dropped off LU's schedule.

[Go...gate]

Dude, check out the score of 2007's Dayton at Fordham game, (your 2007 champion by the way ), and then come talk to me about the PFL "earning" respect ! By the way, how did Lehigh do against Fordham last year?

Indeed, you did beat Fordham - the PL champion - last year, fair and square. And, over time, it is logical (at least to me) that the PFL deserves a playoff bid. But, in the meantime, there is no need to knock the PL. We earned our stripes, just as you will in due course.

[PantherRob82]

Indeed, you did beat Fordham - the PL champion - last year, fair and square. And, over time, it is logical (at least to me) that the PFL deserves a playoff bid. But, in the meantime, there is no need to knock the PL. We earned our stripes, just as you will in due course.

Great post. xthumbsupx

[ngineer]

Just to correct the notion that Liberty backed out for a bigger payday. That didn't happen. Liberty dropped the game because it didn't want a road game Sept. 6, which would have given them four straight road games -- at Lehigh, at Western Carolina, at Youngstown State, at Coastal Carolina.

Liberty isn't playing any FBS games this season. Instead, it scheduled a DII home game in that slot after North Carolina Central dropped off LU's schedule.


Thanks for the correction. My information, from a long time ago at this point, was the Liberty had contacted Lehigh about dropping out because of getting a replacement game. The implication was that they were getting a payday game since the word was Falwell was trying to build up Liberty's image for becoming more "big time". While I understand the four straight away games to start the season, Lafayette is playing 5 straight away games in the middle of the season this year. Luckily, I think things have worked out well for both schools, though playing the D-II could come back to haunt should they make the 'bubble'.

[IaaScribe]

I was always under the impression that Liberty would eventually make the return to Lehigh, but I asked LU's AD about it last week and he said Liberty had gotten out of the contract, since the original game was played so long ago.

Under the previous AD, Liberty tried to play a ton of money games, mostly because the football program wasn't making anything. Attendance was horrible, so the only way to rack up cash was to take payday after payday. So that may have been the reason that Liberty backed out of the game in 2005, since it went up and played Connecticut.

[Go...gate]

In the old days, a game like this was referred to as "an intriguing intersectional matchup". Back in the day, Drake used to play Notre Dame periodically (sometimes in its opener) and played a major schedule for many years.

[DUPFLFan]

Dayton beat em fair and square. The PFL may not be too far off from the Patriot League and NEC. They have proven with a few wins that they can compete with the middle of the pack conferences, and even some lower teams in the top tier conferences.

As much as I love my buddy DetroitFlyer, I think that Rob is very close concerning where the PFL is, I would say the PFL is as good the PL and NEC. I think that the PFL talent has improved greatly over the past five years and will continue to improve. Players like Johnson, Baktiari, Hoying, Phaydavong and others have shown the country and future recruits that you can compare well with other scholarship programs.

The PFL have begin to keep kids who would normally go east to the IVY, PL and NEC at home.

The biggest difference right now is the depth. For example, Drake last year had some significant injuries to its defense especially at Linebacker, one of which was also our long snapper for punts (that particularly killed us).

When things started to go bad, we were playing our third string players at linebacker both who were redshirt freshman and someone who had not long snapped before. It was a learning experience for these kids....

However, that should not be interpreted as saying we don't deserve a bid to the playoffs.

[PantherRob82]

In the old days, a game like this was referred to as "an intriguing intersectional matchup". Back in the day, Drake used to play Notre Dame periodically (sometimes in its opener) and played a major schedule for many years.

Drake used to play at the highest level in college football if I am not mistaken. Was it major college level back then?

[PantherRob82]

As much as I love my buddy DetroitFlyer, I think that Rob is very close concerning where the PFL is, I would say the PFL is as good the PL and NEC. I think that the PFL talent has improved greatly over the past five years and will continue to improve. Players like Johnson, Baktiari, Hoying, Phaydavong and others have shown the country and future recruits that you can compare well with other scholarship programs.

The PFL have begin to keep kids who would normally go east to the IVY, PL and NEC at home.

The biggest difference right now is the depth. For example, Drake last year had some significant injuries to its defense especially at Linebacker, one of which was also our long snapper for punts (that particularly killed us).

When things started to go bad, we were playing our third string players at linebacker both who were redshirt freshman and someone who had not long snapped before. It was a learning experience for these kids....

However, that should not be interpreted as saying we don't deserve a bid to the playoffs.


Thanks for understanding that this was not a shot at Drake. I'm just saying with a new coaching staff in place and Phaydavong being gone, I'm suprised they didn't do a DII or DIII midwest school at home or something rather than go out to eastern PA. Especially with San Diego and Jacksonville in the conference. xeekx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is NOT a done deal as per today's Morning Call:

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=coen-welcomes-27-new-football-players-to&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


Coen hopes more positives are on the way beginning on Sept. 6 when the 2008 season will likely begin.

The team has yet to fill in an opponent for that opening date, but Coen said something should be finalized shortly on a game that will be played at Goodman Stadium.

[PantherRob82]

This is NOT a done deal as per today's Morning Call:

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=coen-welcomes-27-new-football-players-to&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

interesting...maybe Drake feels they can't live up to Detroit Flyer's smack. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[DetroitFlyer]

If Drake can defeat a middlin Gateway team, they can defeat a middlin Patriot League team. Drake is an FCS school that does not need to play Division II or III teams any more than UNI.

I hope the details can be worked out, as this would be a great game for the PFL and the PL. I would like to see many more games between these two leagues and the Ivy League.

[Go...gate]

Drake used to play at the highest level in college football if I am not mistaken. Was it major college level back then?

Indeed it was.

Seems to me that after WWII, Drake played football in the Missouri Valley Conference and also played some Big 10 and Big 8 schools, as well as Xavier, Cincinnati and some others, all of which were "Division I" as Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette and others were until 1982. Am I correct or is it a "senior moment"?

[ngineer]

This is NOT a done deal as per today's Morning Call:

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=coen-welcomes-27-new-football-players-to&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Yes, I saw that too, but I think it's just a matter of the paper work being finalized.

[PantherRob82]

Yes, I saw that too, but I think it's just a matter of the paper work being finalized.

Hopefully. Matchups like these help sort out where the conferences stack up. The PFL needs more of these types of games. I'm not sure it's a good game for Drake financially, but if they win, it's a good win for the PFL.

[ngineer]

Hopefully. Matchups like these help sort out where the conferences stack up. The PFL needs more of these types of games. I'm not sure it's a good game for Drake financially, but if they win, it's a good win for the PFL.

Quite possible that 'working out the final details' may involve some money for Drake to offset costs. Lehigh will be making the trip to your place in 2010. I presume there would be a charter plane flying direct to ABE airport as opposed to flying commercial through Chicago to Allentown...

[ngineer]

Indeed it was.

Seems to me that after WWII, Drake played football in the Missouri Valley Conference and also played some Big 10 and Big 8 schools, as well as Xavier, Cincinnati and some others, all of which were "Division I" as Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette and others were until 1982. Am I correct or is it a "senior moment"?

"Slightly" senior moment. Not sure about Colgate and Holy Cross, but Lafayette, Lehigh, Delaware, etc. went into the D-II status when that began in the early 1970's. Drake played 'big time' football like Lehigh and Lafayette from the early 1900's, but no immediate knowledge about what level they were at in the 1970-1979 timeframe before I-AA began.

[Model Citizen]

[/B] no immediate knowledge about what level they were at in the 1970-1979 timeframe before I-AA began.

I-AA began in 1978.

Drake was D-I from 1973-77 and I-AA from 78-81.

http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd//1970s.html
http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd//1980-85.html

[DUPFLFan]

I-AA began in 1978.

Drake was D-I from 1973-77 and I-AA from 78-81.

http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd//1970s.html
http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd//1980-85.html

Actually Drake was Division 1 from the beginning. In 1893 they played Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska... They also played Grinnell and William Penn that year too..

[Model Citizen]

Actually Drake was Division 1 from the beginning.

I was talking about NCAA Division I, not "Division 1." xeyebrowx Division I didn't exist before the 1970s.

When you click on the link for 70s games, do you see the 1972 college division bowl game? Drake was small college back then. Have to go back a couple decades from there to find Drake's original stint as a major.

Who did Drake name its field after? Doesn't his story explain why they didn't have a major college program for a number of years? xconfusedx

[UAalum72]

Actually, per the College Football Data Warehouse on the Essential Links page, Drake classifications were all over the map
1937-1938 NCAA College Division (Small College)
1939-1958 NCAA University Division (Major College)
1959-1972 NCAA College Division (Small College)
1973-1977 NCAA Division I
1978-1980 NCAA Division I-A
1981-1985 NCAA Division I-AA
1987-1992 NCAA Division III
1993-20XX NCAA Division I-AA

playing New Mexico St., Louisville, and Temple into the '70s.

Lehigh on the other hand was 'Major College' only from '38-'47 and even then played a lot of games against Gettysburg, Muhlenberg, and NYU (but at Yankee Stadium!)

[Big Al]

Who did Drake name its field after? Doesn't his story explain why they didn't have a major college program for a number of years? xconfusedx

Johnny Bright. He went on to a Hall of Fame career in the CFL and is also in the Iowa Sports Hall of Fame

http://www.lib.drake.edu/heritage/bright/story/index.php

The "Johnny Bright Incident" against Oklahoma A&M (Now Oklahoma State) was a watershed moment for college football:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Bright_Incident

He was a leading Heisman contender at the time, and had Drake completed a successful season (and Bright's college career), it might be in a very different conference today -- but that's just conjecture on my part.

This is off-topic, but Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, IA (home of the Iowa State Cyclones) has a very interesting history behind it, as well:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blackhistory2008/news/story?id=3242390

[Model Citizen]

That's the one. Drake and Bradley withdrew from the Missouri Valley over that "incident." As an indie, Drake ultimately went with a small college schedule.

[Franks Tanks]

Actually, per the College Football Data Warehouse on the Essential Links page, Drake classifications were all over the map
1937-1938 NCAA College Division (Small College)
1939-1958 NCAA University Division (Major College)
1959-1972 NCAA College Division (Small College)
1973-1977 NCAA Division I
1978-1980 NCAA Division I-A
1981-1985 NCAA Division I-AA
1987-1992 NCAA Division III
1993-20XX NCAA Division I-AA

playing New Mexico St., Louisville, and Temple into the '70s.

Lehigh on the other hand was 'Major College' only from '38-'47 and even then played a lot of games against Gettysburg, Muhlenberg, and NYU (but at Yankee Stadium!)


Nice research-- Gettysburg and I believe Muhlenburg were in the same conference as Lehigh, Lafayette, Delaware, and Temple. I believe is was the ECAC--help me out here older guys xsmiley_wix

[Go...gate]

Nice research-- Gettysburg and I believe Muhlenburg were in the same conference as Lehigh, Lafayette, Delaware, and Temple. I believe is was the ECAC--help me out here older guys xsmiley_wix

OK, young feller - I believe it was the Middle Atlantic Conference. Albright was in there too, AIR.

[Franks Tanks]

OK, young feller - I believe it was the Middle Atlantic Conference. Albright was in there too, AIR.

Yes thats correct--thanks. Looking back at past conference make-up is very interesting. Like the fact that the University of the South and University of Chicago were once in the SEC and Big 10 respectively and now both play D-III of course.

[PantherRob82]

Johnny Bright. He went on to a Hall of Fame career in the CFL and is also in the Iowa Sports Hall of Fame

http://www.lib.drake.edu/heritage/bright/story/index.php

The "Johnny Bright Incident" against Oklahoma A&M (Now Oklahoma State) was a watershed moment for college football:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Bright_Incident

He was a leading Heisman contender at the time, and had Drake completed a successful season (and Bright's college career), it might be in a very different conference today -- but that's just conjecture on my part.

This is off-topic, but Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, IA (home of the Iowa State Cyclones) has a very interesting history behind it, as well:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blackhistory2008/news/story?id=3242390

I read the story. Funny that OK State apologized 54 years later, after Bright was dead. xrolleyesx

[Go...gate]

That Jack Trice story is really something.

[ngineer]

Actually, per the College Football Data Warehouse on the Essential Links page, Drake classifications were all over the map
1937-1938 NCAA College Division (Small College)
1939-1958 NCAA University Division (Major College)
1959-1972 NCAA College Division (Small College)
1973-1977 NCAA Division I
1978-1980 NCAA Division I-A
1981-1985 NCAA Division I-AA
1987-1992 NCAA Division III
1993-20XX NCAA Division I-AA

playing New Mexico St., Louisville, and Temple into the '70s.

Lehigh on the other hand was 'Major College' only from '38-'47 and even then played a lot of games against Gettysburg, Muhlenberg, and NYU (but at Yankee Stadium!)

Hey, Muhlenberg was a national power back in the 1940's led by legendary coach Ben Schwarzwalder (sp?) who went onto greater fame a Syracuse.

[Go...gate]

Hey, Muhlenberg was a national power back in the 1940's led by legendary coach Ben Schwartzwalder, who went onto greater fame at Syracuse.

Right. Waynesburg was another little giant - played Fordham when the Rams were a national power.

Coach Schwartzwalder did a remarkable job at Syracuse - they were a comparatively minor school in FB and really did not become a big power until after he got there in the early 1950's.

[Lehigh74]

Coach Schwartzwalder did a remarkable job at Syracuse - they were a comparatively minor school in FB and really did not become a big power until after he got there in the early 1950's.

Was he the guy that recruited Jimmy Brown and Ernie Davis?

[UAalum72]

Was he the guy that recruited Jimmy Brown and Ernie Davis?
Yes, running them behind an unbalanced line at ancientArchboldStadium (I think it was one word in the newpapers because it was always described that way).

[Go...gate]

Was he the guy that recruited Jimmy Brown and Ernie Davis?

He was, along with John Mackey, Larry Csonka, Gerhard Schwedes and others. :)

[Lehigh74]

Now it's official.

http://www.godrakebulldogs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=15700&ATCLID=1405373

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks for the heads-up. And if my calculations are correct, that will complete Lehigh's schedule for 2008.

I did write a small writeup on the blog:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

[Model Citizen]

on your blog, you wrote that Drake became the

"first-ever Division I non-scholarship team to beat a fully funded FCS scholarship team when they beat Illinois State 27-24 in their season opener last year."

How do you figure? First of all, the entire Ivy League is non-scholarship. I won't try to list all their wins over scholarship teams, but there are a few.

Second, what about Morehead State and Duquesne over VMI? Jacksonville over Charleston Southern? Morehead over Tennessee-Martin?

Can you explain?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

on your blog, you wrote that Drake became the

"first-ever Division I non-scholarship team to beat a fully funded FCS scholarship team when they beat Illinois State 27-24 in their season opener last year."

How do you figure? First of all, the entire Ivy League is non-scholarship. I won't try to list all their wins over scholarship teams, but there are a few.

Second, what about Morehead State and Duquesne over VMI? Jacksonville over Charleston Southern? Morehead over Tennessee-Martin?

Can you explain?

Your answer, sir. Duquesne's wins over VMI (2000, 2001), Jacksonville's win over Chuck South (2002) , and MSU's wins over VMI (1998) and Tenn-Martin in (2001) - all were not fully funded with scholarships at that time. I think anyone would agree that the win over Illinois State was bigger than these wins - actually, ISU was in the Top 25.

[Model Citizen]

I suppose I would agree it was big. Beside the point, though.

I never knew VMI wasn't fully funded.

You didn't address my point on the Ivy League.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Ivy League likes to pride itself as being "non-scholarship". In its history it played "big-time" football as late as 1980. Since 1954, however, they have offered the same aid that is accessible to all students. So they are "non-scholarship" the same way Army and Navy were "non-scholarship" - basically, the same academic aid was available to the entire student body, not just athletes.

The Ivy League has had more aid money available to them than other schools. Recently, the floodgates have been opening, cumulating with the 10% rule being instituted by Harvard for students with parents with six-figure incomes.

If a student is getting a full ride, but it's available to anyone, not just athletes, does that make it something other than a full ride?

And if a school is awash in money, making them to be able to afford more money for all who qualify for admission, is that different than what is done at, say, Dayton?

I think the two are different.

[Model Citizen]

I think the two are different.

The academies offer full rides. The Ivies pick up 100% of need for most and give full rides to some. Indeed, those are different.

As for the PFL, I invite you to read their board. You'll notice how, in some cases, families have turned down Ivy League offers because they didn't get the tuition down to where it was competitive with schools such as Butler and Drake. xeyebrowx

[Go...gate]

The Ivy League likes to pride itself as being "non-scholarship". In its history it played "big-time" football as late as 1981. Since 1954, however, they have offered the same aid that is accessible to all students. So they are "non-scholarship" the same way Army and Navy were "non-scholarship" - basically, the same academic aid was available to the entire student body, not just athletes.

The Ivy League has had more aid money available to them than other schools. Recently, the floodgates have been opening, cumulating with the 10% rule being instituted by Harvard for students with parents with six-figure incomes.

If a student is getting a full ride, but it's available to anyone, not just athletes, does that make it something other than a full ride?

And if a school is awash in money, making them to be able to afford more money for all who qualify for admission, is that different than what is done at, say, Dayton?

I think the two are different.

One minor correction.

[Model Citizen]

Since Go Gate mentioned it, I'll point out that the 1982 reclassification had nothing to do with financial aid.

[401ks]

If a student is getting a full ride, but it's available to anyone, not just athletes, does that make it something other than a full ride?

And if a school is awash in money, making them to be able to afford more money for all who qualify for admission, is that different than what is done at, say, Dayton?

I think the two are different.

We may be splitting hairs here.

If I were a single parent, making about $30,000/year, and my football-playing son scored a 2250 on his SAT and had a 4.2 GPA, his cost of attending (and playing football at) Harvard, Brown, Dayton, or Butler would be the same... $0.

The Ivies may have WAY more money to throw at athletes and non-ahtletes alike, but qualified student-athletes with demonstrable financial need would garner enough in academic and need-based aid at nearly ANY institution to equal a "full ride".

"Non-scholarship" (for this discussion) means non-athletic scholarship. The Ivies do not offer athletic football scholarships. How much money they can throw at a student-athlete, while impressive and considerable, is beside the point. Do we start to make distinctions between H/Y/P and the rest of the Ivy League? At what point do we stop splitting the hairs?

[Model Citizen]

I called him on making Drake's win over Illinois State into a historic event. This was his defense.

[Marcus Garvey]

OK, young feller - I believe it was the Middle Atlantic Conference. Albright was in there too, AIR.

Albright wasn't in the same division as Lehigh, Lafayette, Delaware, et al. The Middle Atlantic Conference was split into 2 divisions: University (i.e., Div. I) and College (D-III). Muhlenburg dropped down to the MAC-College in the late 50's. Gettysburg hung on longer. Eventually, the Middle Atlantic University Division disbanded for football in the late 60's, and in the mid 70's, became the East Coast Conf. for all other sports. St. Joe's and some other schools were members too.

The College Division was divided even further between "North" and "South" divisions. The membership was somewhat fluid between these divisions. At one time football membership included, but was not limited to:
Moravian, Muhlenberg, Widener, Swarthmore, Haverford, Juniata, Susquehanna, Lycoming, Wilkes, Ursinus, Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson, Gettysburg, Western Maryland (now McDaniel), Upsala (closed), Albright, Lebanon Valley, Johns Hopkins and Ursinus.

An interesting side note regarding football conferences:
For years, few conferences required members to play each other in any sort of round-robin format. Hell, the SEC had 10 members up until 1992, but only played 6 conference games for football. During the short life of the Middle Atlantic Conference University Division for football, not all members played each other.

[Go...gate]

Albright wasn't in the same division as Lehigh, Lafayette, Delaware, et al. The Middle Atlantic Conference was split into 2 divisions: University (i.e., Div. I) and College (D-III). Muhlenburg dropped down to the MAC-College in the late 50's. Gettysburg hung on longer. Eventually, the Middle Atlantic University Division disbanded for football in the late 60's, and in the mid 70's, became the East Coast Conf. for all other sports. St. Joe's and some other schools were members too.

The College Division was divided even further between "North" and "South" divisions. The membership was somewhat fluid between these divisions. At one time football membership included, but was not limited to:
Moravian, Muhlenberg, Widener, Swarthmore, Haverford, Juniata, Susquehanna, Lycoming, Wilkes, Ursinus, Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson, Gettysburg, Western Maryland (now McDaniel), Upsala (closed), Albright, Lebanon Valley, Johns Hopkins and Ursinus.

An interesting side note regarding football conferences:
For years, few conferences required members to play each other in any sort of round-robin format. Hell, the SEC had 10 members up until 1992, but only played 6 conference games for football. During the short life of the Middle Atlantic Conference University Division for football, not all members played each other.

Thanks for the clarification. xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Since Go Gate mentioned it, I'll point out that the 1982 reclassification had nothing to do with financial aid.

That's correct.

[ngineer]

Back to topic, though...If any Bulldogs are planning to make the trip to Bethlehem, let me know. We run a pretty mean tailgate.xthumbsupx

[DUPFLFan]

I suppose I would agree it was big. Beside the point, though.

I never knew VMI wasn't fully funded.

You didn't address my point on the Ivy League.

I think the distinction is that the Ivy league has never had the "1-aa Mid-Major" moniker put on them like the PFL, MAAC and NEC have. It is may be more accurace to say that Drake's win was the first time a FCS Mid Major beat a FCS Scholarship team. xtwocentsx

[UAalum72]

Well, in that case, the NEC wins over Delaware, Lehigh, and Georgia Southern were first. But you can argue they weren't 'non-scholarship' mid-major. And of course they weren't FCS at the time, they were I-AA.

[DUPFLFan]

Sorry,UA I made the fatal mistake of believing the media..

Those would be good wins..Could you tell us the dates of those games?

[danefan]

Albany 17 - Lehigh 16 - 9/2/06
Central Conn. 17 - Georgia Southern 13 - 9/9/06
Albany 17 - Delaware 10 - 9/16/06

[carney2]

Back to topic, though...If any Bulldogs are planning to make the trip to Bethlehem, let me know. We run a pretty mean tailgate.xthumbsupx

How come I've never been invited?

[UAalum72]

Albany at Lehigh was actually 9/02/06, the start of a big 3-week run for the NEC. There were earlier wins vs. the Patriot League if you want to count them and get into the whole scholarship vs. aid funding debate.

[danefan]

Albany at Lehigh was actually 9/02/06, the start of a big 3-week run for the NEC. There were earlier wins vs. the Patriot League if you want to count them.

Updated the date. typo

Albany over Towson in 2001 may have been the first. 14-10 on a game winning drive by freshman backup Justin Kozlowski. Only real series the kid ever played at QB.

[ngineer]

How come I've never been invited?

Hey Carney, I just thought the 'pards had their own tailgate alumni reunions at The Game. But if you'd like to partake let me know. There is usually a theme menu depending on the opponent, but a pretty decent spread. Everyone typically chips in $10 with all proceeds after expenses going to the Roger McFillin Athletic Partnership Fund. Roger was our All-American linebacker in 1973, who I got to play with. He died suddenly of a heart attack about 7 years ago. If you ask Travelinman67, I'm sure he'll affirm the spread is worth the donation--even if it's going into enemy coffers!;) If you're somewhat local and plan to take in a Lehigh game this year let me know. A good number of us are from the early to mid-70's era, with a number of other generations mixed in. My dad, now in his 80's, comes to all the games. Plus we get seranaded by the Marching '97 as they wind their way through the lot on the way over to Goodman. Can't build it up anymore than that!

[ngineer]

Lehigh HC Coen talks today in the Allentown Morning Call about the home opener with the Drake Bulldogs and how the game came to be.
Article at www.mcall.com The just click on sports.

[Herdman]

Drake opens the week prior with D2 Upper Iowa at Drake Stadium so you should be able to get film and see what they run from that game...or send a scout. Or get game film from Wabash College where their new coach "Creighton" came from.

Drake looses their career rushing leader and several others from a senior led team. Plus their QB who had another year left graduated and decided not to come back. This should be much of a game for Lehigh if they are any kind of program.

[Model Citizen]

Nice baiting by the Upper Iowa man. He's not giving you the whole story, but I agree with everything he said!

Lehigh 120
Drake 0