Roger Clemens Court Gameday Thread

[Gil Dobie]

He's getting grilled upside his head right now.

I did learn a new word, Misremembers. xeyebrowx

[BlueHen86]

I'm listening to it too. Doesn't sound good for Roger right now.

Roger's word against the words of Pettitte and McNamee.

[JoltinJoe]

He's getting grilled upside his head right now.

I did learn a new word, Misremembers. xeyebrowx

I suppose that is in that Andy "misremembers" that converation.

Roger, you are a dope for doing this. If you told Andy Pettitte, what did you expect him to say under oath?

[proasu89]

Is it me or is his nose betting bigger everytime he opens his mouth.

[spelunker64]

Can our government spend it's resources on actual issues...

[JoltinJoe]

Can our government spend it's resources on actual issues...

Now that's a fair point. Why is congress even entertaining this train wreck?

Dan Burton just really slammed McNamee and called him a liar, not worthy of belief.

[OSBF]

Because illegal use of a controlled substance is against the law, and MLB has refused to police itself so the feds step in and do it for them. Sort of like when the feds trump the local yokel law enforcement and bring federal charges.

[813Jag]

Now that's a fair point. Why is congress even entertaining this train wreck?
And E$PN is having a field day with this, they even have a special Clemens topic on their ticker. xlolx

[OL FU]

I am going to vote for the presidential candidate that wants to nationalize major league baseballxnodx xnodx xnodx










xrolleyesx

[spelunker64]

Let's see...Pass a farm bill or waste taxpayer money on some jucied up baseball players... hmmmm

[Gil Dobie]

Can our government spend it's resources on actual issues...

I wrote my Senators and reps stating I was happy they were doing this. To me in the sports memorabilia business, steroid use affects a lot of prices. Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa memorabilia has tanked. A lot of people invested in these items and hopefully this will help clean up baseball and help the linked business's. Want to buy some Roger Clemens rookie cards, they are cheap today. :(

[Touchdown Yosef]

[QUOTE=OL FU;863463]I am going to vote for the presidential candidate that wants to nationalize major league baseballxnodx xnodx xnodx


don't forget about the NFL, Goodell is in town today as well to talk with Spector about how he handled spygate. You just can't tell me that he doesn't have better things to do than worry about Spygate. But I guess we all know that MLB and the NFL would be much better off if the government ran them. Our tax dollars hard at work.

[OB55]

This is one of the damnedest things I have ever watched.

[JoltinJoe]

Because illegal use of a controlled substance is against the law, and MLB has refused to police itself so the feds step in and do it for them. Sort of like when the feds trump the local yokel law enforcement and bring federal charges.

So then pass a law.

If the hearings were actually addressing the overall extent and use of PED in baseball, I could buy this.

But Congress is holding hearings on the McNamee v. Clemens issue. This is hardly an affair of state.

[OL FU]

[QUOTE=OL FU;863463]I am going to vote for the presidential candidate that wants to nationalize major league baseballxnodx xnodx xnodx


don't forget about the NFL, Goodell is in town today as well to talk with Spector about how he handled spygate. You just can't tell me that he doesn't have better things to do than worry about Spygate. But I guess we all know that MLB and the NFL would be much better off if the government ran them. Our tax dollars hard at work.

What is the total profit of professional sports teams?xconfusedx The government could put salary caps on professional athletes. xnodx We could tap into endorsements and television and magazine advertisements would finally be for the people. Perhaps we could fund at least a portion of health care from the sporting events. The possibilites are endless.

[OL FU]

So then pass a law.

If the hearings were actually addressing the overall extent and use of PED in baseball, I could buy this.

But Congress is holding hearings on the McNamee v. Clemens issue. This is hardly an affair of state.

So as usual Congress is talking about nothing. An exercise in existentialism? xconfusedx


No Self Promotion is a purpose unto itselfxsmiley_wix

[OSBF]

So then pass a law.

If the hearings were actually addressing the overall extent and use of PED in baseball, I could buy this.

But Congress is holding hearings on the McNamee v. Clemens issue. This is hardly an affair of state.

complete non issue if mlb had a comish with some stones and would police itself.

[proasu89]

And E$PN is having a field day with this, they even have a special Clemens topic on their ticker. xlolx

CNBC is also airing this. It looks to me like a few Congressmen really liked their autographed baseballs that Clemens handed out on Captol Hill.

[Touchdown Yosef]

[QUOTE=Touchdown Yosef;863479]

What is the total profit of professional sports teams?xconfusedx The government could put salary caps on professional athletes. xnodx We could tap into endorsements and television and magazine advertisements would finally be for the people. Perhaps we could fund at least a portion of health care from the sporting events. The possibilites are endless.

yes and then we can complain about high ticket prices and taxes in the same sentence. It would be great.

[bluehenbillk]

Why Clemens didn't just come out at first & admit minimal use is beyond me. Do you think he'd be getting his ass handed to him today in D.C.?

Looks like these guys don't need to see physical evidence, as multiple people are now fingering him.

[PantherRob82]

This is getting really boring...

[gmoney55]

Why Clemens didn't just come out at first & admit minimal use is beyond me. Do you think he'd be getting his ass handed to him today in D.C.?

Looks like these guys don't need to see physical evidence, as multiple people are now fingering him.

Exactly...the only real trouble anyone has been in through any of this steroid stuff is the perjury charges....good luck with that one Roger.

[Gil Dobie]

The Nanny breaks the case xeekx xeekx

[BlueHen86]

The Nanny breaks the case xeekx xeekx
I was just thinking the same thing. Wow, I can't think of a more stupid way to handle the Nanny issue.

[Peems]

This is so horrible to watch. I no longer care about steroids. I'm glad they were used, it made baseball more fun to watch. If they were good they can go in the Hall. Roger, Barry, Mark, Sammy they can all go. Watching the Reps. is horrific. It's just horrible. When the congresswoman from DC gave a ten minute intro to her question and the ended her questioning by saying "I'm sure you're going to heaven." How unprofessional can you be?

[Thunderstruck84]

Watching the Reps. is horrific. It's just horrible. When the congresswoman from DC gave a ten minute intro to her question and the ended her questioning by saying "I'm sure you're going to heaven." How unprofessional can you be?
I agree, the finger wagging is ridiculous. This isn't a congressional hearing, it's just members of the committee taking their turns getting on their almighty moral self-promotional high horses. You can see why most politicians are lawyers, it's just too bad these people can't get grilled about the skeletons in their closets on national TV.

[Go...gate]

Nobody looks good here, but Clemens is really struggling.

[BlueHen86]

I agree, the finger wagging is ridiculous. This isn't a congressional hearing, it's just members of the committee taking their turns getting on their almighty moral self-promotional high horses. You can see why most politicians are lawyers, it's just too bad these people can't get grilled about the skeletons in their closets on national TV.

I think Henry Waxman wears his skeleton.xwhistlex

[LacesOut]

Didn't care about Canseco, or Bonds, nor Giambi, or McGuire (sp?), nor Palmeiro, or the (I'm guessing) other 100+ players who use something to enhance their performance, so WHY WOULD I CARE ABOUT CLEMENS!?!?!?

I don't care.

But thanks for the play by play thread, Gil. LOL

[BlueHen86]

I'm waiting for Clemens to say that the people who say he was at Canseco's party mis-saw him.xrolleyesx

[BlueHen86]

Didn't care about Canseco, or Bonds, nor Giambi, or McGuire (sp?), nor Palmeiro, or the (I'm guessing) other 100+ players who use something to enhance their performance, so WHY WOULD I CARE ABOUT CLEMENS!?!?!?

I don't care.

But thanks for the play by play thread, Gil. LOL
Because "Roger Clemens is a titan in baseball,..." at least he is according to Indiana Rep. Dan Burton.xlolx

[ISUMatt]

Both these guys have 'truth' issues...Clemens cant remember what he did 2 years ago, but he remembered where his golf receipt was from 10-11 years ago...but he cant remember anything...McNamee has lied about everything in the past about everything

[ISUMatt]

WOW, all these softball questions giving Clemens every opportunity to blow himself...Now he just threw Bid Selig under the bus, so he has thrown pettitte, his team Dr, and Bud Selig under the Clemens bus...who is next!?!?!

[ISUMatt]

Its McNamees fault that Clemens took HGH, he made him do it lol this DEM from Iowa is kinda nuts...Clemens doesnt know what a Vegan is....cmon!!

[ISUMatt]

More republicans lining up to blow Roger Clemens

[JoltinJoe]

So then pass a law.

If the hearings were actually addressing the overall extent and use of PED in baseball, I could buy this.

But Congress is holding hearings on the McNamee v. Clemens issue. This is hardly an affair of state.

I'm going to quote myself because Rep. Lynn Westmoreland just made this precise point -- that the focus of these hearings is inappropriate for congressional involvement.

[Gil Dobie]

I have no problem with cheaters and liars being grilled on national TV.

By the sounds of some people on this thread, maybe we should start kids on steroids, maybe in Jr High, teach them the proper cycles, makes it fair for everyone. If they have health problems later in life, like in High School, hey that's just part of the game, drugs are good.

[spelunker64]

This issue should be dealt with by local authorities or the MLB commissioners office itself...

[JoltinJoe]

I have no problem with cheaters and liars being grilled on national TV.

By the sounds of some people on this thread, maybe we should start kids on steroids, maybe in Jr High, teach them the proper cycles, makes it fair for everyone. If they have health problems later in life, like in High School, hey that's just part of the game, drugs are good.

Can you point to something in this thread that substantiates that statement?

I think Congress is wasting time and money debating who is telling the truth: McNamee or Clemens.

This isn't even related to the question over the prevalence of PEDs in baseball. It's a soap opera between McNamee and Clemens, nothing more.

[BlueHen86]

It is what it is.xlolx

[OSBF]

This issue should be dealt with by local authorities or the MLB commissioners office itself...



DING DING DING WE HAVE A WEINER!!!!!!!

you're exactly right, should be dealt with by MLB, but Bud hasn't b'cause PED's are a cash cow for MLB. If MLB refuses to deal with it, someone has to, it is after all illegal activity covered by interstate commerce provisions.

[spelunker64]

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WEINER!!!!!!!

you're exactly right, should be dealt with by MLB, but Bud hasn't b'cause PED's are a cash cow for MLB. If MLB refuses to deal with it, someone has to, it is after all illegal activity covered by interstate commerce provisions.

Yep, just saying where it should be dealt with. As you know it never will until Mr. Brewer is out of office

[ISUMatt]

More Clemens blowing himself and some old bag from Virginia lofting up another softball for Roger to answer...Its apparent after the break that the committee decided to let Roger save the world and tell everyone about it

[spelunker64]

On January 17, 2008, Selig's contract was extended by the MLB through 2012, at which point he plans to retire

4 more years

[OSBF]

Kennasaw "Mountain" Landis would have a field day with these d-bags.

[Gil Dobie]

Can you point to something in this thread that substantiates that statement?

I think Congress is wasting time and money debating who is telling the truth: McNamee or Clemens.

This isn't even related to the question over the prevalence of PEDs in baseball. It's a soap opera between McNamee and Clemens, nothing more.

It's about validation of the Mitchell report, which is related to the prevalence and misuse of PEDs.

[BlueHen86]

It's about validation of the Mitchell report, which is related to the prevalence and misuse of PEDs.

xnodx

[spelunker64]

It's about validation of the Mitchell report, which is related to the prevalence and misuse of PEDs.

That report wasn't paid for by US tax $$$, it was done by MLB. So why is Congress involved...?

[ISUMatt]

Clemens has no idea about anything...thats all he can muster...I dont know, I have no idea...So he forgets everything, McNamee is a liar,

[ISUMatt]

Andy Pettitte should have told Roger about Andy using HGH, I mean cmon they were plane travelmates...All of this is Andys fault, he misunderstood me

[Gil Dobie]

That report wasn't paid for by US tax $$$, it was done by MLB. So why is Congress involved...?

MLB did it otherwise congress would have spent more on investigations than just these hearing.

[ISUMatt]

Ya know McNamee is a turd, but I still think Clemens is guilty as ****!

[Thunderstruck84]

That report wasn't paid for by US tax $$$, it was done by MLB. So why is Congress involved...?
Major League Baseball was granted an antitrust exemption in 1922 which basically made it THE all powerful entity when it came to the market of professional baseball. Therefore it is congress' or more generally the federal government's responsibility (a.k.a. excuse) to make sure MLB polices itself accordingly and does not take advantage of the monopoly it has.

This is more of an excuse for congress than a responsibility I think, there's not much congress can do to hurt MLB right now but it does give them jurisdiction to call these congressional hearings as it sees fit. I think the cooperation from MLB and the player's union is done moreso from a PR standpoint and a desire to not make enemies in Washington than from the fear that it may lose it's antitrust exemption.

And these high profile hearings also give the members of the committee invaluable exposure to a demographic (ESPN viewers) who probably couldn't care less about the everyday happenings of congress so it's no surprise that they'll jump at a chance to do one of these.

[Dane96]

"That is your opinion"

McNapuke, last I looked, DEALING ILLEGAL DRUGS IS ILLEGAL.

Seriously, I have interviewed a ton of witnesses...and whether or not Roger used PED's is secondary to me right now-- Anything coming out of McNapuke's mouth is garbaaaage. Based on my experience, the guy is a pathological liar.

[ISUMatt]

Wow Clemens doesnt like what the Chairman says and speaks out and get his ass chided for it...Waxman is definitely against Clemens and even apologized to McNamee about some of the things said about him today...

[Gil Dobie]

Looks like the Dems were after Clemens, Reps after McNamee in general.

[ISUMatt]

Looks like the Dems were after Clemens, Reps after McNamee in general.

BIG TIME!

[cougarpines]

Looks like the Dems were after Clemens, Reps after McNamee in general.

agreed

[ISUMatt]

I think the Mitchell report is what everyone wants to believe and they will look to take down Clemens

[Dane96]

Gotta say, while I agree with Joltin Joe--this did not belong in Congress-- Waxman is a disgusting representative in my opinion.

You are a chair. Your job is to be unbias during the meeting and control that thing. He gave not an inch to Clemens. Apologizing to McNamee- The guy is a drug dealer and a former DIRTY cop who has lied under oath numerous times.

JESUS-- Does he have to kill someone before Waxman would look at him with even an iota of disdain?

Note to Congressmen Waxman, let me explain to you clearly: 95% of the **** that McNamee said would be inadmissiable in a court of law. His evidence is WEAK at best.

Now I dont like Clemens, and I do not know if he is guilty of not, but not one prosecutor in their right mind would come forward with a case like this.

6 FBI agents were needed at this hearing?

A ****ing joke.

[ISUMatt]

All this crap and they will both just walk away...there is no way McNamees word can lock up Clemens..NO WAY!!!

[BlueHen86]

I think the Mitchell report is what everyone wants to believe and they will look to take down Clemens
I wouldn't be surprized if Clemens is charged with prejury. I doubt if he will be convicted however, the evidence is flimsy at best.

I don't think Clemens improved his image today. He probably would have been better off not questioning the Mitchell Report.

[Gil Dobie]

Only chance is if Clemens DNA is found inside a HGH or steroid vile. Also don't forget the Nanny.

[Dane96]

I wouldn't be surprized if Clemens is charged with prejury. I doubt if he will be convicted however, the evidence is flimsy at best.

I don't think Clemens improved his image today. He probably would have been better off nor questioning the Mitchell Report.

Not going to happen. It would take about 4 seconds to fight that-- McNamee's word is questionable, the physical evidence is inadmissable, and all Roger has to do is say, "I ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS BASED ON HIS STATEMENTS."

Easy as a 1, a 2, and a 3.

Open and shut.

[Dane96]

Only chance is if Clemens DNA is found inside a HGH or steroid vile. Also don't forget the Nanny.

Nope...not a chance here either. Too many people claim he was not there and have signed affidavits.

Hgh and his DNA won't work-- Inadmissable because of ZERO chain of custody.

Open and shutxrulesx

[ISUMatt]

McNamee's bafoonery will get Clemens off the hook, but I do believe Clemens used HGH...There is too much I dont remember coming from him...McNamee is just an idiot, but at least he told the truth today, yea that means he lied about everything in the past and his word is as good as mud

[Seahawks Fan]

Ya know McNamee is a turd, but I still think Clemens is guilty as ****!


Clemens is a bigger turd. xnodx

[BlueHen86]

Not going to happen. It would take about 4 seconds to fight that-- McNamee's word is questionable, the physical evidence is inadmissable, and all Roger has to do is say, "I ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS BASED ON HIS STATEMENTS."

Easy as a 1, a 2, and a 3.

Open and shut.

I'm not so sure. Either Clemens or NcNamee had to be lying, under oath, on national TV. Somebody committed perjury today.

[Peems]

McNamee's bafoonery will get Clemens off the hook, but I do believe Clemens used HGH...There is too much I dont remember coming from him...McNamee is just an idiot, but at least he told the truth today, yea that means he lied about everything in the past and his word is as good as mud

I didn't get to watch all of it. But what McNamee "flip flop" on?

[Mountaineer]

I'm not so sure. Either Clemens or NcNamee had to be lying, under oath, on national TV. Clemens committed perjury today.

Fixed. xthumbsupx

Both of 'em sounded like snakes to me though.

[ISUMatt]

I didn't get to watch all of it. But what McNamee "flip flop" on?

He admitted to lying to everyone in past cases and to authorities about physical evidence and he admitting lying about..then the kept raising the # of times he injected guys...he once said he injected Knoblauch 7-10 times and today said it was much momre than that...They exposed him big time as a liar in the past, it seems that his PHD is a sham, I kinda missed that part, and he swears he saw Clemens at Cansecos Party when no one else saw him there...This guy from Indiana really made McNamee look bad!

[BlueHen86]

I didn't get to watch all of it. But what McNamee "flip flop" on?
He lied - a lot - earlier in the investigation.

[BlueHen86]

Fixed. xthumbsupx

Both of 'em sounded like snakes to me though.
You did fix it.xnodx Well done.xthumbsupx

[Dane96]

I'm not so sure. Either Clemens or NcNamee had to be lying, under oath, on national TV. Somebody committed perjury today.

Roger says I didnt use the drugs. His accuser is McNamee. The only proof is McNamee. There is no way anyone can reasonably convict Clemens of using drugs based on McNamee's evidence.

Thus, Clemens can say "Hey, I didnt lie about a thing...WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?"

Boom...

[Dane96]

Fixed. xthumbsupx

Both of 'em sounded like snakes to me though.

You may be right, but is UNPROVABLE in a court of law.

Public opinion...totally seperate thing.

SHOCKED if a prosecutor goes for this.

[Mountaineer]

You may be right, but is UNPROVABLE in a court of law.

Public opinion...totally seperate thing.

SHOCKED if a prosecutor goes for this.

Agreed. I don't think there's any chance those guys end up in court. But the court of public opinion could be far more damaging than anything legal.

[ISUMatt]

And what a crock of s.hit that Mitchell never contacted Roger...UNBELIEVEABLE

I love how both Clemens lawyers FREAKED OUT when the Nanny was brought up and how his Lawyers didnt give investigators her name until they had their way with her

[Gil Dobie]

Roger says I didnt use the drugs. His accuser is McNamee. The only proof is McNamee. There is no way anyone can reasonably convict Clemens of using drugs based on McNamee's evidence.

Thus, Clemens can say "Hey, I didnt lie about a thing...WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?"

Boom...

Andy Pettite talked to him about it. xeekx

[BlueHen86]

Andy Pettite talked to him about it. xeekx
Yup.

It's not just Clemens vs McNamee, it's Clemens vs. Pettitte as well.

[mcveyrl]

Nope...not a chance here either. Too many people claim he was not there and have signed affidavits.

Hgh and his DNA won't work-- Inadmissable because of ZERO chain of custody.

Open and shutxrulesx

If McNamee was there when it happened and had it in his possession the whole time, isn't that your chain of custody?

I mean, it's a flimsy chain and VERY attackable, but I think it's admissible. I definitely wouldn't want that to be my key piece of evidence.

[Dane96]

Andy Pettite talked to him about it. xeekx

Not enough to convict the man of perjury.

[BlueHen86]

Agreed. I don't think there's any chance those guys end up in court. But the court of public opinion could be far more damaging than anything legal.

And isn't Public Opinion the reason Clemens pursued this in the first place?
I think we saw two losers testify today.

[mcveyrl]

And isn't Public Opinion the reason Clemens pursued this in the first place?
I think we saw two losers testify today.

Bingo. The only difference is what each had to lose.

[spelunker64]

So who won?

[BlueHen86]

So who won?
We did. Great entertainment.xlolx

[Gil Dobie]

If I can't sell a $25.00 book price Roger Clemens rookie card for $5.00 this weekend, Clemens has lost in the court of public opinion. Pricing it at $5.00 hints that he has lost already.

[ISUMatt]

Now Clemens attournys are lying about holding the meeting...we didnt want it, yet an hour before the meeting today, Clemens had a chance to cancel the whole thing but he and his lawyers insisted it goes on...man the BS keeps spewing out of the Clemens camp

[ISUMatt]

I think having Knoblauch and Pettitte there would really have bolstered McNamee's word

[ISUMatt]

HAHAHA and Souder just said that in a phone interview

[Seahawks Fan]

So who won?

Hopefully, in the end, baseball? xconfusedx

[ISUMatt]

ESPNs ratings too lol

[JoltinJoe]

So as usual Congress is talking about nothing. An exercise in existentialism? xconfusedx


No Self Promotion is a purpose unto itselfxsmiley_wix

Chuckle, chuckle. Oh, that is funny.

So it's all about Waxman getting his mug on TV and looking statesman-like.xthumbsupx

[BlueHen86]

Chuckle, chuckle. Oh, that is funny.

So it's all about Waxman getting his mug on TV and looking statesman-like.xthumbsupx


I guess his audition for Phantom of the Opera didn't go so well.

[Peems]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3243182&name=congressional_hearings

Jayson Stark's live blog about what happened. He's a good baseball source, and I agree with most of what he said.

Also Rome is Burning is one and they had John Heiman from SI on. He's an idiot. I quote "Clemens could be facing some serious jail time." This has gotten out of hand

[Go...gate]

"That is your opinion"

McNapuke, last I looked, DEALING ILLEGAL DRUGS IS ILLEGAL.

Seriously, I have interviewed a ton of witnesses...and whether or not Roger used PED's is secondary to me right now-- Anything coming out of McNapuke's mouth is garbaaaage. Based on my experience, the guy is a pathological liar.

So is Clemens; he even threw his wife under the bus. The whole thing is disgusting.

[ISUMatt]

Clemens threw his wife, Pettitte, and that other Dr that treated the abcess on his ass all under the bus...what a prick

[ISUMatt]

Everyone says McNamee flip-flopped...well today McNamee was pretty straight forward, he went away from what he said in the past yes, but today's story was the same...Roger was wishy-washy on the Canseco party (I wasnt there, I might have showed up), he sold out his wife, he couldnt remember anything or couldnt recall...just a bad vibe from Roger today...and he was being an ass hole as usual

[Peems]

They both are guilty of wasting our time.

[seantaylor]

Jose Canseco, who surprisingly has the most cred and honesty so far, says Clemens did not take the juice.