Who Got The Better Deal?

[Peems]

Another Giants thread. This was does not involve the Pats though. The question is, who got the better deal? Chargers or Giants?

Chargers get Rivers and "Lights out" and the Giants get a Super Bowl. Obviously right now the Giants got the ring, but in the long run what do you think

[brownbear]

Steelers got Ben Roethlisberger with the 11th pick in that draft. Until last night, they easily had gotten the best deal!

I figure the Chargers will eventually get to the Super Bowl. Winning a playoff game was a good start for this year, and the way they ended the season should put them near the top for next year.

[Marcus Garvey]

That's hard to say. There's no denying that Eli played fantastic through the playoffs, and in Week 17. However, in the other 15 games, he was mediocre at best. Right now, I can't say Eli was a better choice than Rivers, because Manning might go back to sucking again. If that happens, then he'll have been a QB who "got hot" at just the right time. For all we know, Rivers will win 3 Super Bowl trophies before he retires. We shall have to wait and see.

[LacesOut]

It's maybe a tie.

If Rivers, Gates, and LT were healthy, they may have taken the whole thing this year.

Would have been an interesting SB if the Chargers had made it, with Rivers and Eli being the QB's.

[TheValleyRaider]

The goal is to win the Super Bowl. The Giants got their guy, and won a Super Bowl.

Does this necessarily mean the Chargers lose? No, certainly not if Rivers gets a ring of his own. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum scenario xpeacex

[kardplayer]

I don't think Eli won the Super Bowl as much as the D'Line did. I think you put a healthy Phillip Rivers back there and they would have won anyway - especially if they had Merriman too...

[OB55]

Rivers has proven nothing. I think SD should have kept Brees.

[TheValleyRaider]

I don't think Eli won the Super Bowl as much as the D'Line did. I think you put a healthy Phillip Rivers back there and they would have won anyway - especially if they had Merriman too...

Drives like Eli had at the end of the game are the stuff of legends xnodx

Just like the guy who hits a 3-run homer with his team down 2, you gotta deliver when the situation calls for it. Has Rivers ever done that before? (the late game-winning drive in the ultra-pressure situation, not the 3-run home run)

[nwFL Griz]

Rivers has proven nothing. I think SD should have kept Brees.

I agree, I have yet to be impressed by Rivers. Is he a good QB, yes. Is he an MVP calibre QB? No. I think Eli can be if he continues to make good decisions with the ball he definitely has the tools.

Not to say Rivers couldn't win a SB and then everyone is happy. But I'll still agree with OB.....they should have kept Brees.

[BlueHen86]

I say the Giants. The idea is to win the Super Bowl, which the Giants have done.

There is no guarantee that San Diego will win a Super Bowl with this current group of players. The window closes pretty fast in the NFL, the Chargers better do it soon.

[furpal87]

Refresh me, what was the whole deal? Even though it got them a ring, I remember thinking that they gave up too much. Rivers has won 2 playoff games and 2 divisional titles. The Chargers were built on the Vick trade, the Manning trade, and the Brees trade. With the AFC West so weak currently, the Chargers will be in the playoffs for 5 years at least, sooner or later they get by the Pats, they own the Colts.

[AZGrizFan]

That's hard to say. There's no denying that Eli played fantastic through the playoffs, and in Week 17. However, in the other 15 games, he was mediocre at best. Right now, I can't say Eli was a better choice than Rivers, because Manning might go back to sucking again. If that happens, then he'll have been a QB who "got hot" at just the right time. For all we know, Rivers will win 3 Super Bowl trophies before he retires. We shall have to wait and see.

Manning - 1
Rivers - 0

Scoreboard ---- Manning. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Seahawks Fan]

Right now, the Giants look pretty good, don't they? xnodx

[Marcus Garvey]

Manning - 1
Rivers - 0

Scoreboard ---- Manning. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

Yeah, Manning's in the lead... now. You can't proclaim a winner yet.

[nwFL Griz]

Refresh me, what was the whole deal? Even though it got them a ring, I remember thinking that they gave up too much. Rivers has won 2 playoff games and 2 divisional titles. The Chargers were built on the Vick trade, the Manning trade, and the Brees trade. With the AFC West so weak currently, the Chargers will be in the playoffs for 5 years at least, sooner or later they get by the Pats, they own the Colts.

Hold it just a second there. The AFC West is by no stretch weak. One year does not a trend make. The Broncos and Chiefs will be as tough as ever next year, and Oakland is rapidly improving on it's #1 pick season from a year ago. Not to mention the Chargers have made the playoffs only three times since 2000, with 2 of those 3 being one and done. True, the Bolts are 3-1 against the Colts since 2000, but I hardly call that owning.

[bandl]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the cancer-of-a-coach that San Diego has, Norv Turner.

San Diego, or any team for that matter, will never win a SB with Norv as their head coach. xnodx

It's not exactly fair to compare the two QB's when you have a team-killer like Norv at the helm. xcoffeex

[CollegeSportsInfo]

bandl got it right. San Diego as an organization, just sticks. They dropped the ball with their coaching situation by retaining Marty in a year when they had a great coaching staff that could have remained intact had Marty been fired. Instead, they lose their best 3 coaches Wade to Dallas, Cam to Miami and Shot to NYJ. Independently they are all average, but as a staff they were great.

Factor in stadium issues and previous salary negotiations and it's easy to have sided with Eli during that draft.

[spelunker64]

I'd rather have Rivers as my QB and Merriman as my OLB instead of Eli and Marques Harris(backup OLB)...


Super Bowls are not won by one player

[spelunker64]

Giants received
Rights to 2004 1st Overall Pick, Eli Manning.

Chargers received
Rights to 2004 4th Overall Pick, Philip Rivers.
2005 1st Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Linebacker Shawne Merriman.
2004 3rd Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Kicker Nate Kaeding.
2005 5th Round Draft Pick - Traded to Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Left Tackle Roman Oben.

[AshevilleApp2]

As great as Manning performed in the playoffs, I'll take the Chargers because they filled more needs.

[GannonFan]

Giants received
Rights to 2004 1st Overall Pick, Eli Manning.

Chargers received
Rights to 2004 4th Overall Pick, Philip Rivers.
2005 1st Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Linebacker Shawne Merriman.
2004 3rd Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Kicker Nate Kaeding.
2005 5th Round Draft Pick - Traded to Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Left Tackle Roman Oben.

The Chargers got the better of the deal, IMO. Manning doesn't even have a chance to win that game by himself. Without the defensive line the Giants had, we wouldn't even be talking about that last drive. And on that last drive, there were plenty of other heroes as well - Tyree with that catch, the Giant offensive line giving Manning time, Smith caught a big pass, and Burress with a heckuva move for the winning TD. QB's get too much credit sometimes.

[spelunker64]

As great as Manning performed in the playoffs, I'll take the Chargers because they filled more needs.


The Chargers got the better of the deal, IMO. Manning doesn't even have a chance to win that game by himself. Without the defensive line the Giants had, we wouldn't even be talking about that last drive. And on that last drive, there were plenty of other heroes as well - Tyree with that catch, the Giant offensive line giving Manning time, Smith caught a big pass, and Burress with a heckuva move for the winning TD. QB's get too much credit sometimes.

xrulesx xthumbsupx

[proasu89]

The Chargers got the better of the deal, IMO. Manning doesn't even have a chance to win that game by himself. Without the defensive line the Giants had, we wouldn't even be talking about that last drive. And on that last drive, there were plenty of other heroes as well - Tyree with that catch, the Giant offensive line giving Manning time, Smith caught a big pass, and Burress with a heckuva move for the winning TD. QB's get too much credit sometimes.

Guess who also gets the lion's share of the blame when things go south.xnodx

[spelunker64]

Guess who also gets the lion's share of the blame when things go south.xnodx

Ryan Leaf xmadx xnonono2x :( xsmhx xbawlingx

[grizband]

Another question is, how much to the Chargers wish they kept Drew Brees instead of elevating Rivers to the starting position? I think last year, or this year, the Chargers might have gone further with Brees at the helm.

[furpal87]

Turner proved this year even he could win that division.

As for the rest of it, KC is going to win with Damon Huard or Brodie Croyle QB'ing and that offensive reprobate Herman Edwards coaching? That offense went from one of the best to a joke in two years with him coaching. Oakland's got a senile owner who wants to change the coach every year. They're going nowhere. Denver got old some places quickly, and lost those two guys to tragic deaths during last off season, they're in rebuilding, and Shanahan won't be there too much longer.

[nwFL Griz]

Turner proved this year even he could win that division.

As for the rest of it, KC is going to win with Damon Huard or Brodie Croyle QB'ing and that offensive reprobate Herman Edwards coaching? That offense went from one of the best to a joke in two years with him coaching. Oakland's got a senile owner who wants to change the coach every year. They're going nowhere. Denver got old some places quickly, and lost those two guys to tragic deaths during last off season, they're in rebuilding, and Shanahan won't be there too much longer.

The only place Denver got old was in the D-line. They showed that it doesn't matter how good your corners are, if you can't get to the QB then eventually the WR will get open. I'll agree that Shanahan is probably in his last two or three seasons, but Denver is far from rebuilding.

Yes KC has the ability to win, with either Damon or Brodie. They have a good backfield, decent receivers and a solid D. Not to mention your vast underestimation of the potential in Oakland. Russell has the tools to be pro-bowl QB. All I've said is based on the potential in each team. Granted performance may not live up to it, but the chance exists.

I'll go on record right now saying that San Diego will not win the AFC West next year.

[spelunker64]

The only place Denver got old was in the D-line. They showed that it doesn't matter how good your corners are, if you can't get to the QB then eventually the WR will get open. I'll agree that Shanahan is probably in his last two or three seasons, but Denver is far from rebuilding.

Yes KC has the ability to win, with either Damon or Brodie. They have a good backfield, decent receivers and a solid D. Not to mention your vast underestimation of the potential in Oakland. Russell has the tools to be pro-bowl QB. All I've said is based on the potential in each team. Granted performance may not live up to it, but the chance exists.

I'll go on record right now saying that San Diego will not win the AFC West next year.


And who will? Denver???

San Diego really doesn't have too many holes and they are now comfortable in Norv's system. Get some more depth in the draft/FA this off-season and there should be good things to come.

[nwFL Griz]

And who will? Denver???

San Diego really doesn't have too many holes and they are now comfortable in Norv's system. Get some more depth in the draft/FA this off-season and there should be good things to come.

Possibly...maybe even KC. Look, my point is this guy was dismissing the rest of the division based on this one season. Any one who follows the game knows that is a dangerous assumption to make. It's not like San Diego has the roster of NE or Indy. Sure they have LT, and Merriman. But you give me a choice between Denver's D and SD and I'll take Denver. I might even take KC. There is really not that much difference between the three, not enough to where I will proclaim the Chargers as owning the division.

[spelunker64]

I'd take a healthy Bolts D anyday. ILB's are the weak point. Weddle and Cromartie are 2 young guys that were playing at a high level at the end of the year.

AFC West is tough. SD usually splits with Den and KC and wins against Oakland. I could see that again next year.

[nwFL Griz]

I'd take a healthy Bolts D anyday. ILB's are the weak point. Weddle and Cromartie are 2 young guys that were playing at a high level at the end of the year.

AFC West is tough. SD usually splits with Den and KC and wins against Oakland. I could see that again next year.

Exactly my point, for my money, the AFC west (well, maybe NFC east) may be the toughest division top-to-bottom. That's all I was trying to say.

[furpal87]

Look, I am a Chiefs fan. I watched this team struggle every week. They lost to the Raiders, Jets, Lions, and the Broncos twice badly. They have NO QB, the health of the running game is iffy, receivers have to get the ball thrown near them. Team is poorly coached. As for the Raiders, who is going to be their coach? I thought they were improved this year. but they did end 4-12, and if they have to change coaches again, it's starting over again. Also, the Raiders 5 year record is 19-61, worse than the Lions. As for Denver, SD has swept them the last two years, all by at least 10 points, including 41-3 at Denver this year.

[spelunker64]

Look, I am a Chiefs fan. I watched this team struggle every week. They lost to the Raiders, Jets, Lions, and the Broncos twice badly. They have NO QB, the health of the running game is iffy, receivers have to get the ball thrown near them. Team is poorly coached. As for the Raiders, who is going to be their coach? I thought they were improved this year. but they did end 4-12, and if they have to change coaches again, it's starting over again. Also, the Raiders 5 year record is 19-61, worse than the Lions. As for Denver, SD has swept them the last two years, all by at least 10 points, including 41-3 at Denver this year.

xnodx Raiders won their first Division game this year in a long time too. I see 08 as:

SD
Den
KC
Oak

[TheValleyRaider]

Exactly my point, for my money, the AFC west (well, maybe NFC east) may be the toughest division top-to-bottom. That's all I was trying to say.

I'd say the NFC East is definately the toughest top-to-bottom division. The only other one I would make a case for would be the AFC South. I'd even take the AFC North before considering the West xnodx

[furpal87]

I thought the AFC West was the toughest division the last several years, but imploded this year.

Out of division records:
AFC East: 17-23 (Pats 10-0, Dolphins 1-9 of that)
AFC West: 14-26
NFC East: 28-12
AFC South: 30-10
NFC South: 16-24
AFC North: 20-20
NFC West: 14-26
NFC North: 21-19

[UMass922]

I say the Giants. The idea is to win the Super Bowl, which the Giants have done.

There is no guarantee that San Diego will win a Super Bowl with this current group of players. The window closes pretty fast in the NFL, the Chargers better do it soon.

Agreed, especially considering that the Chargers are in the AFC and thus the Patriots and Colts perpetually in their way. Anyone in the AFC who wants to get to the Super Bowl is most likely going to have to beat both of those teams in the playoffs in a typical year. Brady and Peyton are still in their primes, and neither is done winning Super Bowls, IMHO. It would be nice to see this San Diego team get there, though. When all their stars are healthy and clicking, they're a fun team to watch. We never got to see Barry Sanders play in a Super Bowl; it would be equally disappointing not to see Tomlinson play in one.

[spelunker64]

SD is 3-0 against the Colts in the last 3 games...xwhistlex


Pats on the other hand, xsmhx