Auto Bids to the NCAA FCS Playoff

[The Cats]

Just a couple of quick question about auto bids.

1) With the possibility of the Ivy League joining the playoff picture, which would up the number of auto bids by one, would the number of overall bids then expand to include the Ivy's auto bid, or would the at-large bids be reduced by one, to include the Ivy?

2) More importantly, should there be auto bids for the non-scholarship conferences in the first place?

[DFW HOYA]

Just a couple of quick question about auto bids.

1) With the possibility of the Ivy League joining the playoff picture, which would up the number of auto bids by one, would the number of overall bids then expand to include the Ivy's auto bid, or would the at-large bids be reduced by one, to include the Ivy?

2) More importantly, should there be auto bids for the non-scholarship conferences in the first place?

1. More than likely, the at-large goes down by one. A 25 or 26-team tournament is not easy to schedule.

2. The Ivy and Pioneer are FCS conferences in good standing and deserve the same autobid privileges as anyone else. As long as FCS has no scholarship minimum it shouldn't matter.

[FUBeAR]

1. More than likely, the at-large goes down by one. A 25 or 26-team tournament is not easy to schedule.

2. The Ivy and Pioneer are FCS conferences in good standing and deserve the same autobid privileges as anyone else. As long as FCS has no scholarship minimum it shouldn't matter.
FUBeAR concurs with both of these points AND…

…if any way develops that could induce the MEAC & SWAC to send their champions, they should receive Autobids, as well. FUBeAR would even be willing to consider offering an AutoBid to the runners-up in those 2 conferences…or even the highest finishing non Conference-Championship game / non-HBCU traditional “Bowl” game participants - i.e., the ‘best’ 2 Teams (1 from each Conference) from the MEAC & SWAC with no 1st round FCS Playoffs scheduling conflict(s).

INCLUDING ALL of FCS (not talking DEI “inclusivity” here, so don’t go off on some ‘political’ rant) in the Playoffs is/would be much more beneficial for the Subdivision than maintaining some imagined (which already doesn’t exist) level of “Playoffs Purity.” If their 2 Teams get blown out every year in their 1st round games - that’s fine - same thing happens to the PFL, NEC, and PL Champions ALMOST every year.

FUBeAR is sure this will be very popular with MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA fans whose Teams regularly feast on PFL, NEC, and PL Teams in the Playoffs. No way do they want to see 2 “less-than” Teams added from the Southern US.

FIRE AWAY!

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

FUBeAR concurs with both of these points AND…

…if any way develops that could induce the MEAC & SWAC to send their champions, they should receive Autobids, as well. FUBeAR would even be willing to consider offering an AutoBid to the runners-up in those 2 conferences…or even the highest finishing non Conference-Championship game / non-HBCU traditional “Bowl” game participants - i.e., the ‘best’ 2 Teams (1 from each Conference) from the MEAC & SWAC with no 1st round FCS Playoffs scheduling conflict(s).

INCLUDING ALL of FCS (not talking DEI “inclusivity” here, so don’t go off on some ‘political’ rant) in the Playoffs is/would be much more beneficial for the Subdivision than maintaining some imagined (which already doesn’t exist) level of “Playoffs Purity.” If their 2 Teams get blown out every year in their 1st round games - that’s fine - same thing happens to the PFL, NEC, and PL Champions ALMOST every year.

FUBeAR is sure this will be very popular with MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA fans whose Teams regularly feast on PFL, NEC, and PL Teams in the Playoffs. No way do they want to see 2 “less-than” Teams added from the Southern US.

FIRE AWAY!

Nah. The MEAC and SWAC can send their runner-ups to the Celebration Bowl. The Playoffs automatic bids should be for conference champions.

[POD Knows]

FUBeAR concurs with both of these points AND…

…if any way develops that could induce the MEAC & SWAC to send their champions, they should receive Autobids, as well. FUBeAR would even be willing to consider offering an AutoBid to the runners-up in those 2 conferences…or even the highest finishing non Conference-Championship game / non-HBCU traditional “Bowl” game participants - i.e., the ‘best’ 2 Teams (1 from each Conference) from the MEAC & SWAC with no 1st round FCS Playoffs scheduling conflict(s).

INCLUDING ALL of FCS (not talking DEI “inclusivity” here, so don’t go off on some ‘political’ rant) in the Playoffs is/would be much more beneficial for the Subdivision than maintaining some imagined (which already doesn’t exist) level of “Playoffs Purity.” If their 2 Teams get blown out every year in their 1st round games - that’s fine - same thing happens to the PFL, NEC, and PL Champions ALMOST every year.

FUBeAR is sure this will be very popular with MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA fans whose Teams regularly feast on PFL, NEC, and PL Teams in the Playoffs. No way do they want to see 2 “less-than” Teams added from the Southern US.

FIRE AWAY!
**** that noise on a 2nd place team in the MEAC and SWAC getting an autobid. If the second place team is good enough to get an at large, that would be fine. Why should the division twist themselves and amendment themselves to accommodate conferences that have no real desire to participate in the playoffs. Screw it.

[FUBeAR]

Why should the division twist themselves and amendment themselves to accommodate conferences that have no real desire to participate in the playoffs.
The answer to your question was already provided…


INCLUDING ALL of FCS (not talking DEI “inclusivity” here, so don’t go off on some ‘political’ rant) in the Playoffs is/would be much more beneficial for the Subdivision than maintaining some imagined (which already doesn’t exist) level of “Playoffs Purity.”

[POD Knows]

The answer to your question was already provided…You made a comment earlier about autobids given to conferences in "good standing", the MEAC, SWAC and the Ivy's are not conferences in good standing in the FCS given their voluntary opt out on the playoffs. **** em. And how would giving an auto bid to a couple teams in the lowest rated conferneces in the FCS add vitality to the playoffs, by reducing the number of at large bids to teams in the other conferences that are FULL members of the FCS?

[FUBeAR]

You made a comment earlier about autobids given to conferences in "good standing", [Not FUBeAR’s comment, though he did concur with that poster’s comment; generally]


the MEAC, SWAC - how would giving an auto bid to a couple teams in the lowest rated conferneces in the FCS add vitality to the playoffs

by reducing the number of at large bids to teams in the other conferences [your only concern, right?] that are FULL members of the FCS?

how would giving an auto bid to a couple teams in the lowest rated conferneces in the FCS add vitality to the playoffs?

Perfect word choice … The word "vitality" comes from the Latin word vītālitās, which is derived from vīta, meaning "life"

There are about a million life-based reasons … 960,982 of them are shown “living” below.



Attendance Report thru games 11/28/2024


Rank
Institution
Conference
Accum Attendance
Avg Attendance
Stadium Capacity
Pct Capacity
Games




1
Jackson St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589119)
SWAC
136,063
27,213
40,000
68.03
5


2
Montana (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589130)
Big Sky
180,912
25,845
25,217
102.49
7


3
Montana St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589129)
Big Sky
131,392
21,899
17,777
123.19
6


4
Alabama St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589076)
SWAC
115,909
19,318
26,500
72.90
6


5
Tarleton St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589198)
ASUN
114,884
19,147
24,000
79.78
6


6
South Dakota St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589160)
MVFC
111,023
18,504
19,340
95.68
6


7
Southern U. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589165)
SWAC
92,314
18,463
28,500
64.78
5


8
Delaware (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589099)
CAA
121,305
17,329
18,077
95.86
7


9
Florida A&M (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589106)
SWAC
68,173
17,043
19,633
86.81
4


10
North Dakota St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589139)
MVFC
100,733
16,789
18,700
89.78
6


11
Norfolk St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589136)
MEAC
72,719
14,544
30,000
48.48
5


12
Sacramento St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589087)
Big Sky
70,234
14,047
21,195
66.27
5


13
South Carolina St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589159)
MEAC
69,812
13,962
22,000
63.47
5


14
N.C. A&T (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589137)
CAA
66,325
13,265
21,500
61.70
5


15
Holy Cross (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589113)
Patriot
60,422
12,084
23,500
51.42
5


16
Idaho (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589073)
Big Sky
57,499
11,500
16,000
71.87
5


17
Alcorn (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589078)
SWAC
45,630
11,408
22,500
50.70
4


18
Grambling (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589110)
SWAC
56,668
11,334
19,600
57.82
5

[POD Knows]

how would giving an auto bid to a couple teams in the lowest rated conferneces in the FCS add vitality to the playoffs?

Perfect word choice … The word "vitality" comes from the Latin word vītālitās, which is derived from vīta, meaning "life"

There are about a million life-based reasons … 960,982 of them are shown “living” below.



Attendance Report thru games 11/28/2024


Rank
Institution
Conference
Accum Attendance
Avg Attendance
Stadium Capacity
Pct Capacity
Games




1
Jackson St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589119)
SWAC
136,063
27,213
40,000
68.03
5


2
Montana (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589130)
Big Sky
180,912
25,845
25,217
102.49
7


3
Montana St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589129)
Big Sky
131,392
21,899
17,777
123.19
6


4
Alabama St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589076)
SWAC
115,909
19,318
26,500
72.90
6


5
Tarleton St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589198)
ASUN
114,884
19,147
24,000
79.78
6


6
South Dakota St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589160)
MVFC
111,023
18,504
19,340
95.68
6


7
Southern U. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589165)
SWAC
92,314
18,463
28,500
64.78
5


8
Delaware (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589099)
CAA
121,305
17,329
18,077
95.86
7


9
Florida A&M (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589106)
SWAC
68,173
17,043
19,633
86.81
4


10
North Dakota St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589139)
MVFC
100,733
16,789
18,700
89.78
6


11
Norfolk St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589136)
MEAC
72,719
14,544
30,000
48.48
5


12
Sacramento St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589087)
Big Sky
70,234
14,047
21,195
66.27
5


13
South Carolina St. (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589159)
MEAC
69,812
13,962
22,000
63.47
5


14
N.C. A&T (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589137)
CAA
66,325
13,265
21,500
61.70
5


15
Holy Cross (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589113)
Patriot
60,422
12,084
23,500
51.42
5


16
Idaho (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589073)
Big Sky
57,499
11,500
16,000
71.87
5


17
Alcorn (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589078)
SWAC
45,630
11,408
22,500
50.70
4


18
Grambling (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/589110)
SWAC
56,668
11,334
19,600
57.82
5



BFD, so alleged attendance is the card to play in order to put a second place team in a ****ty conference in the playoffs. And I doubt that the second place team in the SWAC or MEAC would bring any fans to their ROAD game for their first round blow out in any town USA. I believe in merit being the reason why you make the playoffs, not some misguided desire to accommodate someone, if the second place team in these conferences are good enough to be awarded an at large, fine, outside of that, nope.

[Preferred Walk-On]

28 team bracket with 4 (top seed) byes. Does not change the schedule at all, just four extra first round games.

Seed 16, and the "last 4 out" (now SWAC, MEAC, Ivy, and one more, and these are not necessarily the actual last 4 out) are now in. By seeding the 16, it is possible that one of these previous non-autobid teams make the 16, but if not, then they can be placed accordingly. That said, the real "last 4 in" should be funneled to seeds 5-8. Regionalize the four extra games, and we're good to go.

Nobody loses any potential conference at-large bids, AND now the SoCon even has a chance at an at-large (just poking FUBeAR a bit xlolx). But seriously, any discrepancy in "deserving" to be there is mitigated, and we actually get to play the games on the field (not on a discussion board and not at all). If the discrepancy in talent is that much between the field and the last 4 in, then seeds 5-8 should have no problem with these teams, and they would not have any additional travel. The rest of the field would pretty much be the same as it is every year, right?

[FUBeAR]

BFD, so alleged attendance is the card to play in order to put a second place team in a ****ty conference in the playoffs. And I doubt that the second place team in the SWAC or MEAC would bring any fans to their ROAD game for their first round blow out in any town USA. I believe in merit being the reason why you make the playoffs, not some misguided desire to accommodate someone, if the second place team in these conferences are good enough to be awarded an at large, fine, outside of that, nope.
Please point to anywhere FUBeAR has expressed a “desire to accommodate someone.” [Strawman #1]

FUBeAR HAS stated that this is something he believes would benefit the Football Championship Subdivision and THAT is the reason to do it. Nothing else. The ‘accommodation’ of “someone,” which you so revile, is a result of what, FUBeAR believes, is best for FCS; NOT the reason for it.

Do you have any data to support your contention that MEAC and SWAC fans wouldn’t travel well? [Strawman #2] FUBeAR has seen the exact opposite when SCSU and NCA&T (then MEAC) visited Paladin Stadium in both regular season and playoff games.

The MEAC and SWAC Conferences and the Teams within those conferences have made/make exactly the same decision every other FCS School would make regarding the participation of their Champions in the Celebration Bowl, given the same set of circumstances. No reason for any FCS Teams or fans to have hurt feelings or bruised egos over it because they/their Teams would do exactly the same thing…or they would be guilty of financial mismanagement. The Ivy decision not to participate is a completely different kettle of lobsters. It is nonsense and unfair to their Football Student Athletes.

That said, having roughly a quarter of the Conferences and a quarter of the Teams in the Subdivision, as well as many of the top attendance number Teams & definite media ‘draws’ NOT typically ‘engaged’ in the FCS Playoffs is NOT a good look…and NOT healthy…but, hey…as long as the 6th place MVFC and Big Sky Teams get a playoff bid…and get to face Butler or San Diego in the Playoffs, most posters here are perfectly satisfied.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I get your reasoning, Bear, but the HBCU conferences chose gold over championships. That is a fine and rational decision and I would want the NEC to do the same if ABC came calling with the same guilt-induced offer but with that sizeable paycheck comes consequences and handing them an automatic bid to their second place for two leagues with AWFUL football isn't justified by any desire for health.

They chose to close themselves off.

[FUBeAR]

28 team bracket with 4 (top seed) byes. Does not change the schedule at all, just four extra first round games.

Seed 16, and the "last 4 out" (now SWAC, MEAC, Ivy, and one more, and these are not necessarily the actual last 4 out) are now in. By seeding the 16, it is possible that one of these previous non-autobid teams make the 16, but if not, then they can be placed accordingly. That said, the real "last 4 in" should be funneled to seeds 5-8. Regionalize the four extra games, and we're good to go.

Nobody loses any potential conference at-large bids, AND now the SoCon even has a chance at an at-large (just poking FUBeAR a bit xlolx). But seriously, any discrepancy in "deserving" to be there is mitigated, and we actually get to play the games on the field (not on a discussion board and not at all). If the discrepancy in talent is that much between the field and the last 4 in, then seeds 5-8 should have no problem with these teams, and they would not have any additional travel. The rest of the field would pretty much be the same as it is every year, right?
FUBeAR, a Bear of very little brain, can’t follow that without a visual (a bracket), but it sounds good.

That’s what FCS needs - outside the box thinking to improve the current less-than-full-participation (for whatever reason(s)) Playoffs - instead of dogmatic, possibly agenda-driven naysaying. We have an abundance of “riches” in the latter.

[FUBeAR]

I get your reasoning, Bear, but the HBCU conferences chose gold over championships. That is a fine and rational decision and I would want the NEC to do the same if ABC came calling with the same guilt-induced offer but with that sizeable paycheck comes consequences and handing them an automatic bid to their second place for two leagues with AWFUL football isn't justified by any desire for health.

They chose to close themselves off.Don’t care. The motivation is NOT to benefit the MEAC or the SWAC or any of their Teams. The motivation is to benefit the FCS.

This thinking is akin to - “Welp, I’ve got a tumor in my brain. The right thing to do is decaptitate myself because my head is guilty of having this tumor. Sure, I could have the tumor removed, but that would be wrong to reward my head, and also unfair to my feet, who are pristine in their behavior.”

[POD Knows]

Don’t care. The motivation is NOT to benefit the MEAC or the SWAC or any of their Teams. The motivation is to benefit the FCS.

This thinking is akin to - “Welp, I’ve got a tumor in my brain. The right thing to do is decaptitate myself because my head is guilty of having this tumor. Sure, I could have the tumor removed, but that would be wrong to reward my head, and also unfair to my feet, who are pristine in their behavior.”
It is not a benefit to the FCS to give an auto bid to a second place team in the worst conferences in the division. I don’t care how you spin it and I remember when NCAT came to Fargo for a game. They maybe had 50 people there.

[The Cats]

Don’t care. The motivation is NOT to benefit the MEAC or the SWAC or any of their Teams. The motivation is to benefit the FCS.

This thinking is akin to - “Welp, I’ve got a tumor in my brain. The right thing to do is decaptitate myself because my head is guilty of having this tumor. Sure, I could have the tumor removed, but that would be wrong to reward my head, and also unfair to my feet, who are pristine in their behavior.”

That is so dumb, it's funny. Thanks for today's laugh, Foosbear...

[FUBeAR]

1) It is not a benefit to the FCS to give an auto bid to a second place team in the worst conferences in the division. I don’t care how you spin it and I remember 2) when NCAT came to Fargo for a game. They maybe had 50 people there.
1) “It is not a benefit to the FCS…” …because you say so? It would absolutely increase attendance and media attention on the FCS Playoffs, likely with some type of improved media agreement, with $$’s to have MEAC, SWAC, and Ivy Teams in the FCS Playoffs.


2) Maybe that says more about Fargo than it does about NC A&T fans. They swarmed GVL by the thousands and spent lots of kwan when they played at FU a few years ago.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

“It is not a benefit to the FCS…” …because you say so?

It would absolutely increase attendance and media attention on the FCS Playoffs, likely with some type of improved media agreement, with $$’s to have MEAC, SWAC, and Ivy Teams in the FCS Playoffs.


Maybe that says more about Fargo than it does about NC A&T fans. They swarmed GVL by the thousands and spent lots of kwan when they played at FU a few years ago.

The first round of the playoffs is shoved on ESPN+ due to starting on FBS Rivalry Week. What network has the space and timeslots to sign up for the FCS Playoffs? Only ESPN does. Maybe NBC, if you want the games on Peacock. The Celebration Bowl is a standalone situation that ties back into ESPN's Bowl Mania promotion.

Alcorn State-Furman and Harvard-Rhode Island isn't some ratings bonzana.

[FUBeAR]

The first round of the playoffs is shoved on ESPN+ due to starting on FBS Rivalry Week. What network has the space and timeslots to sign up for the FCS Playoffs? Only ESPN does. Maybe NBC, if you want the games on Peacock. The Celebration Bowl is a standalone situation that ties back into ESPN's Bowl Mania promotion.

Alcorn State-Furman and Harvard-Rhode Island isn't some ratings bonzana.
How ‘bout a Harvard @ Alabama State & NC Central @ Western Carolina (normally Top 20 attendance, but had a ‘no-fans’ game this season’ due to Helene) double-header on BET and streaming on multiple platforms?

Attendance, eyeballs, and publicity with national interest.

[caribbeanhen]

Harvard at Jackson St

South Carolina St at Yale, Columbia or Dartmouth

The Ebony and Ivory Bowl because we all know that people are they same wherever you go, there is good and bad and everyone…….

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/static/uploads/1/2022/04/When-Paul-McCartney-first-met-Stevie-Wonder.jpg
(Credit: Far Out / Alamy)

[Preferred Walk-On]

FUBeAR, a Bear of very little brain, can’t follow that without a visual (a bracket), but it sounds good.

That’s what FCS needs - outside the box thinking to improve the current less-than-full-participation (for whatever reason(s)) Playoffs - instead of dogmatic, possibly agenda-driven naysaying. We have an abundance of “riches” in the latter.
Just Google "28 team bracket with 4 byes". It is the first image, I think. The point is, why not include a team from each conference that currently does not have an autobid (by choice) and add one more to make the bracket work. MEAC and SWAC choose the team, and Ivy is champion (with perhaps a few tiebreakers to work out the AQ). It adds no extra weekends, it adds the three remaining FCS conferences, and if MEAC/SWAC choose gold over potential accomplishment by sending their 2nd best teams, fine.

[caribbeanhen]

Just Google "28 team bracket with 4 byes". It is the first image, I think. The point is, why not include a team from each conference that currently does not have an autobid (by choice) and add one more to make the bracket work. MEAC and SWAC choose the team, and Ivy is champion (with perhaps a few tiebreakers to work out the AQ). It adds no extra weekends, it adds the three remaining FCS conferences, and if MEAC/SWAC choose gold over potential accomplishment by sending their 2nd best teams, fine.

sounds good

if 3 OVC teams are in maybe 4 Ivies as well

[POD Knows]

Just Google "28 team bracket with 4 byes". It is the first image, I think. The point is, why not include a team from each conference that currently does not have an autobid (by choice) and add one more to make the bracket work. MEAC and SWAC choose the team, and Ivy is champion (with perhaps a few tiebreakers to work out the AQ). It adds no extra weekends, it adds the three remaining FCS conferences, and if MEAC/SWAC choose gold over potential accomplishment by sending their 2nd best teams, fine.I like the 28 team bracket, don't like the change to the criteria regarding sending a 2nd place team instead of the conference champ. Maybe the MVFC could declare UND as the conference champ and then get in the other 4 teams that made it as well. If the second place team or any other team from those conferences are good enough to get an at large, then have at it. I do not understand the rationale for changing the AQ criteria to suit a conference that doesn't want to play by the rules and timetables of the playoffs. And sticking with the current 24 team field and reducing the at large spots by 2 in order to give it to a second place team as an AQ seems beyond dumb to me, don't care about the fictional attendance figures that are thrown around.

[Preferred Walk-On]

I like the 28 team bracket, don't like the change to the criteria regarding sending a 2nd place team instead of the conference champ. Maybe the MVFC could declare UND as the conference champ and then get in the other 4 teams that made it as well. If the second place team or any other team from those conferences are good enough to get an at large, then have at it. I do not understand the rationale for changing the AQ criteria to suit a conference that doesn't want to play by the rules and timetables of the playoffs. And sticking with the current 24 team field and reducing the at large spots by 2 in order to give it to a second place team as an AQ seems beyond dumb to me, don't care about the fictional attendance figures that are thrown around.

I agree that replacing at-large slots with auto-bids for conferences that previously made the choice to not participate would be wrong. However, adding 4 teams would not really change things much. While I can see the sentiment of conferences altering criteria for declaring a champion, the UND argument is a bit much. 2nd place for the autobid, if and only if, your conference is playing in a recognized bowl game with an obvious playoff conflict. Also, 2nd place is the limit, so ISUr would have been the MVFC team, assuming the other three were all playing in bowl games and could not participate in the playoffs due to this conflict.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

I agree that replacing at-large slots with auto-bids for conferences that previously made the choice to not participate would be wrong. However, adding 4 teams would not really change things much. While I can see the sentiment of conferences altering criteria for declaring a champion, the UND argument is a bit much. 2nd place for the autobid, if and only if, your conference is playing in a recognized bowl game with an obvious playoff conflict. Also, 2nd place is the limit, so ISUr would have been the MVFC team, assuming the other three were all playing in bowl games and could not participate in the playoffs due to this conflict.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are close but still disagree with the second place auto bid. The auto bid should only be for the conference champ as determined by the criteria established by the conference for the title. I don’t think, just because a group of conferences decide that they are going to have their own championship, that the rules for auto bids should be amended to reward a conference for not fully participating in the playoffs.

[FUBeAR]

We are close but still disagree with the second place auto bid. The auto bid should only be for the conference champ as determined by the criteria established by the conference for the title. I don’t think, just because a group of conferences decide that they are going to have their own championship, that the rules for auto bids should be amended to reward a conference for not fully participating in the playoffs.You live in a neighborhood with 13 homes. All 13 homes surround and face a park. The park is OK, but 10 of the neighbors decide they want to increase the property value of their homes by adding some hedges, flowers, and a nice fountain to the park. The other 3 neighbors are focused on keeping their own homes/yards looking great.

Should the 10 neighbors decide only to put the hedges and flowers in front of their own 10 homes, skipping over the 3 non-participants because those 3 neighbors don’t really want to chip in, although they are willing to loan a few used shovels to the effort, or should they maximize the overall look of the park and the value of their homes by making it look complete?


Focusing on the ‘undeserved reward’ to the MEAC/SWAC is a natural reaction/feeling, but it’s a short-sighted view. Again - every other FCS school /conference would be required, by their fiduciary duty to their schools and their members, to make the same decision the MEAC/SWAC has made/makes.

FCS should take the long, big-picture, holistic, value-increasing view and find a way to include representatives from those conferences in the Playoffs (Prof. C’s solution makes perfect sense! Who doesn’t like 4 more Football games to watch/pick/bet on?)…and should be camped out, lobbying, in Princeton while the Ivies are considering participating.

A beautiful, finished park is MORE fun for EVERYONE!

[The Cats]

I agree with Foosbear that pulling in teams from the MEAC & SWAC to the playoffs would be very beneficial from an attendance aspect, as well as, potentially better media coverage and broadcast coverage. Look at where the Celebration Bowl plays and the broadcast coverage it receives, no other FCS teams even get close to this type media and/or broadcast coverage and attendance.

If it takes giving the top two teams per conference an auto bid, to pull in the MEAC and SWAC - why not?

Eliminate the bid auto bids from the non-scholarship conferences, but allow them at-large bids, when and if their teams are worthy of a bid. Allow conferences to send their champ to a bowl game or to the playoffs (for all conferences). Allow each conference at least 2 guaranteed bids, that they can utilize as they see fit, sending 1 or 2 teams per conference.

I see many benefits for the FCS in this, by including the MEAC & SWAC teams.

[POD Knows]

You live in a neighborhood with 13 homes. All 13 homes surround and face a park. The park is OK, but 10 of the neighbors decide they want to increase the property value of their homes by adding some hedges, flowers, and a nice fountain to the park. The other 3 neighbors are focused on keeping their own homes/yards looking great.

Should the 10 neighbors decide only to put the hedges and flowers in front of their own 10 homes, skipping over the 3 non-participants because those 3 neighbors don’t really want to chip in, although they are willing to loan a few used shovels to the effort, or should they maximize the overall look of the park and the value of their homes by making it look complete?


Focusing on the ‘undeserved reward’ to the MEAC/SWAC is a natural reaction/feeling, but it’s a short-sighted view. Again - every other FCS school /conference would be required, by their fiduciary duty to their schools and their members, to make the same decision the MEAC/SWAC has made/makes.

FCS should take the long, big-picture, holistic, value-increasing view and find a way to include representatives from those conferences in the Playoffs (Prof. C’s solution makes perfect sense! Who doesn’t like 4 more Football games to watch/pick/bet on?)…and should be camped out, lobbying, in Princeton while the Ivies are considering participating.

A beautiful, finished park is MORE fun for EVERYONE!
No it isn't, not when you reward a spot that is not earned because of a decision that the conference makes. I said I was good with an at large bid for the second place team, if they can't get that they shouldn't be afforded a spot based on some arbitrary "exemption" from the normal rules. We are never going to agree on this, we will just have to move on.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I agree with Foosbear that pulling in teams from the MEAC & SWAC to the playoffs would be very beneficial from an attendance aspect, as well as, potentially better media coverage and broadcast coverage. Look at where the Celebration Bowl plays and the broadcast coverage it receives, no other FCS teams even get close to this type media and/or broadcast coverage and attendance.

If it takes giving the top two teams per conference an auto bid, to pull in the MEAC and SWAC - why not?

Eliminate the bid auto bids from the non-scholarship conferences, but allow them at-large bids, when and if their teams are worthy of a bid. Allow conferences to send their champ to a bowl game or to the playoffs (for all conferences). Allow each conference at least 2 guaranteed bids, that they can utilize as they see fit, sending 1 or 2 teams per conference.

I see many benefits for the FCS in this, by including the MEAC & SWAC teams.

A first round playoff game isn't bumping a SEC game off ABC's schedule. The Celebration Bowl doesn't compete for a prime slot.

[FUBeAR]

No it isn't, not when you reward a spot that is not earned because of a decision that the conference makes. I said I was good with an at large bid for the second place team, if they can't get that they shouldn't be afforded a spot based on some arbitrary "exemption" from the normal rules. We are never going to agree on this, we will just have to move on.
Correct - as long as your sole focus is on ensuring that “someone” doesn’t get something you don’t think they deserve and thereby not, potentially, taking something away from a ‘more deserving’ 6th place MVFC Team, we will not agree.

If, on the other hand, you were able to consider the overall health of the FCS - FUBeAR’s ONLY concern with his position on this - then we might be able to objectively consider the scope of the benefit including representation from ALL FCS Conferences would provide, and the best of the various ways to make that a reality.

No worries - putting up a 7-5 record with 4 of those wins over Murray State, Indiana State, a non-schollie, and a D2, yet has an SoS rank of 30th cuz they had the ‘fortune’ of losing to both xDSU’s, is just so meritorious…we need be sure to not disrespect such a paragon of pure Football excellence.

[POD Knows]

I agree with Foosbear that pulling in teams from the MEAC & SWAC to the playoffs would be very beneficial from an attendance aspect, as well as, potentially better media coverage and broadcast coverage. Look at where the Celebration Bowl plays and the broadcast coverage it receives, no other FCS teams even get close to this type media and/or broadcast coverage and attendance.

If it takes giving the top two teams per conference an auto bid, to pull in the MEAC and SWAC - why not?

Eliminate the bid auto bids from the non-scholarship conferences, but allow them at-large bids, when and if their teams are worthy of a bid. Allow conferences to send their champ to a bowl game or to the playoffs (for all conferences). Allow each conference at least 2 guaranteed bids, that they can utilize as they see fit, sending 1 or 2 teams per conference.

I see many benefits for the FCS in this, by including the MEAC & SWAC teams. Zero benefits for FCS for anything you mentioned, you mean to say that each conference gets 2 bids regardless of the quality of the teams in that conference, excluding the non-scholly conferences. Why don't we just take the top 24 teams by attendance and just have the playoffs from that pool, that makes about as much sense as twisting this thing in order to allow for some barely existent "prestige" from the bottom of the FCS barrel. The MEAC and the SWAC can either decide to either be in or out, they have already made their decision and they appear to be OK with what they do, it works for those conferences. Lets just say for the sake of argument, you allow the 2nd place teams for those conferences in the field, which teams do you kick out?

[ElCid]

You live in a neighborhood with 13 homes. All 13 homes surround and face a park. The park is OK, but 10 of the neighbors decide they want to increase the property value of their homes by adding some hedges, flowers, and a nice fountain to the park. The other 3 neighbors are focused on keeping their own homes/yards looking great.

Should the 10 neighbors decide only to put the hedges and flowers in front of their own 10 homes, skipping over the 3 non-participants because those 3 neighbors don’t really want to chip in, although they are willing to loan a few used shovels to the effort, or should they maximize the overall look of the park and the value of their homes by making it look complete?


Focusing on the ‘undeserved reward’ to the MEAC/SWAC is a natural reaction/feeling, but it’s a short-sighted view. Again - every other FCS school /conference would be required, by their fiduciary duty to their schools and their members, to make the same decision the MEAC/SWAC has made/makes.

FCS should take the long, big-picture, holistic, value-increasing view and find a way to include representatives from those conferences in the Playoffs (Prof. C’s solution makes perfect sense! Who doesn’t like 4 more Football games to watch/pick/bet on?)…and should be camped out, lobbying, in Princeton while the Ivies are considering participating.

A beautiful, finished park is MORE fun for EVERYONE!

I think a better comparison would be 13 dwellings, but 3 of those are trailers. So a tall fast growing hedge might be in order.

I dislike the entire idea. Champ or nobody. Unless of course a legit MEAC/SWAC team at large team is in order. Or move up their championship game and make it a fixed first round game. That's about as far as I would go. Any existing game this weekend would have to go away for teams in the bowl/first round.

It really is not urgent or meaningful as no MEAC or SWAC team would probably advance past the second round. Possibly, but not probable. Even less of a chance with the second fiddle. It's why this isn't on anyone's front burner. They got a good thing going. If I were them I wouldn't change a thing. And even if the Ivy comes on board, so there would be three less at larges, there certainly isn't any need to add any more playoff spots. It's borderline ridiculous now. I've said it many times, if you can't even win your conference, and especially if you are #3, 4, or more, LOL, you got no business in the playoffs. Win your damn conference if you want to go to the playoffs. Sure there are weird circumstances like the MVFC this year where there is this triple witching thing going on, but usually not.

[FUBeAR]

I think a better comparison would be 13 dwellings, but 3 of those are trailers. So a tall fast growing hedge might be in order.

I dislike the entire idea. Champ or nobody. Unless of course a legit MEAC/SWAC team at large team is in order. Or move up their championship game and make it a fixed first round game. That's about as far as I would go. Any existing game this weekend would have to go away for teams in the bowl/first round.

It really is not urgent or meaningful as no MEAC or SWAC team would probably advance past the second round. Possibly, but not probable. Even less of a chance with the second fiddle. It's why this isn't on anyone's front burner. They got a good thing going. If I were them I wouldn't change a thing. And even if the Ivy comes on board, so there would be three less at larges, there certainly isn't any need to add any more playoff spots. It's borderline ridiculous now. I've said it many times, if you can't even win your conference, and especially if you are #3, 4, or more, LOL, you got no business in the playoffs. Win your damn conference if you want to go to the playoffs. Sure there are weird circumstances like the MVFC this year where there is this triple witching thing going on, but usually not.
You’re calling this a “trailer”…

https://images.sidearmdev.com/convert?url=https%3a%2f%2fdxbhsrqyrr690.cloudfront .net%2fsidearm.nextgen.sites%2fbamastatesports.com %2fimages%2f2019%2f7%2f17%2fStadium.jpg&type=webp

…and your Team plays here?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV_CRK3WkAAmZ2u.jpg

C’mon man … can’t even read the rest of that post.

[The Cats]

Zero benefits for FCS for anything you mentioned, you mean to say that each conference gets 2 bids regardless of the quality of the teams in that conference, excluding the non-scholly conferences. Why don't we just take the top 24 teams by attendance and just have the playoffs from that pool, that makes about as much sense as twisting this thing in order to allow for some barely existent "prestige" from the bottom of the FCS barrel. The MEAC and the SWAC can either decide to either be in or out, they have already made their decision and they appear to be OK with what they do, it works for those conferences. Lets just say for the sake of argument, you allow the 2nd place teams for those conferences in the field, which teams do you kick out?

That's great thinking. Thinking like yours is what is keeping the FCS in the attendance gutter as well as the broadcasting gutter.

In your way of thinking, why have at-large bids at all? Only give the conference champions a shot at your so "prestigious" tournament that makes no money,

Last season the FCS championship was held in a converted soccer stadium and drew ... wait for it... 18,023.

While the lowly Celebration Bowl played at Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, drew 41,108 and was broadcast on ABC at 12 noon on Saturday, with a payout of $2 million ($1 million for each conference). I could not find a payout for the FCS national championship, guess they want to keep it quite so the celebration bowl will not be jealous.

The point, it's time to do something different in the FCS, what we're doing is not working very well in bringing new fans to the FCS, bring money into the FCS, and better broadcasting into the FCS.

But, you pureist can live with all that.... as long as it's conference champions and 4 or 5 teams from the MVFC, Big Sky and CAA every year...

[Bisonoline]

I agree with Foosbear that pulling in teams from the MEAC & SWAC to the playoffs would be very beneficial from an attendance aspect, as well as, potentially better media coverage and broadcast coverage. Look at where the Celebration Bowl plays and the broadcast coverage it receives, no other FCS teams even get close to this type media and/or broadcast coverage and attendance.

If it takes giving the top two teams per conference an auto bid, to pull in the MEAC and SWAC - why not?

Eliminate the bid auto bids from the non-scholarship conferences, but allow them at-large bids, when and if their teams are worthy of a bid. Allow conferences to send their champ to a bowl game or to the playoffs (for all conferences). Allow each conference at least 2 guaranteed bids, that they can utilize as they see fit, sending 1 or 2 teams per conference.

I see many benefits for the FCS in this, by including the MEAC & SWAC teams.

So we would change the whole structure of the playoffs to appease two conferences that dont want to participate and havent for years? They can follow the rules like everyone else if the wish to grace the football world with their presence.

[wapiti]

FUBeAR concurs with both of these points AND…

…if any way develops that could induce the MEAC & SWAC to send their champions, they should receive Autobids, as well. FUBeAR would even be willing to consider offering an AutoBid to the runners-up in those 2 conferences…or even the highest finishing non Conference-Championship game / non-HBCU traditional “Bowl” game participants - i.e., the ‘best’ 2 Teams (1 from each Conference) from the MEAC & SWAC with no 1st round FCS Playoffs scheduling conflict(s).

INCLUDING ALL of FCS (not talking DEI “inclusivity” here, so don’t go off on some ‘political’ rant) in the Playoffs is/would be much more beneficial for the Subdivision than maintaining some imagined (which already doesn’t exist) level of “Playoffs Purity.” If their 2 Teams get blown out every year in their 1st round games - that’s fine - same thing happens to the PFL, NEC, and PL Champions ALMOST every year.

FUBeAR is sure this will be very popular with MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA fans whose Teams regularly feast on PFL, NEC, and PL Teams in the Playoffs. No way do they want to see 2 “less-than” Teams added from the Southern US.

FIRE AWAY!

No auto bid to a 2nd place team. If a conference will not send their champ then no team from that conference should get an at large.

[The Cats]

No auto bid to a 2nd place team. If a conference will not send their champ then no team from that conference should get an at large.

...and I doubt you'd feel that way IF the Big Sky could send it's champion to a bowl that paid the conference $1 million per season.

Of course no one would guarantee the Big Sky a cool million to play outside the FBS playoffs, so it's a mute point... But if they did I'll bet you'd be crying like hell about at-large bids for the Big Sky...

[ElCid]

You’re calling this a “trailer”…

https://images.sidearmdev.com/convert?url=https%3a%2f%2fdxbhsrqyrr690.cloudfront .net%2fsidearm.nextgen.sites%2fbamastatesports.com %2fimages%2f2019%2f7%2f17%2fStadium.jpg&type=webp

…and your Team plays here?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV_CRK3WkAAmZ2u.jpg

C’mon man … can’t even read the rest of that post.

It was a metaphor for choosing to participate in the existing framework, not a look at venues.

[ElCid]

No auto bid to a 2nd place team. If a conference will not send their champ then no team from that conference should get an at large.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. It a second place team deserves an at large, they should go. That is a rarity in this case, but not impossible. If we expect everyone to follow the rules, all rules should apply.

[FUBeAR]

It was a metaphor for choosing to participate in the existing framework, not a look at venues.
Yes…and the visual comparison of those 2 venues is an also a perfect metaphor for what the “PlayoffPurists” here want to exclude and what they want to ‘protect.’

[NY Crusader 2010]

I like the 28 team bracket, don't like the change to the criteria regarding sending a 2nd place team instead of the conference champ. Maybe the MVFC could declare UND as the conference champ and then get in the other 4 teams that made it as well. If the second place team or any other team from those conferences are good enough to get an at large, then have at it. I do not understand the rationale for changing the AQ criteria to suit a conference that doesn't want to play by the rules and timetables of the playoffs. And sticking with the current 24 team field and reducing the at large spots by 2 in order to give it to a second place team as an AQ seems beyond dumb to me, don't care about the fictional attendance figures that are thrown around.

Not sure if it was mentioned in the thread but the NCAA standard is that the # of at-large participants in a postseason tournament must be at least equal to the # of auto-qualifiers. Currently there are 10 FCS conferences accepting auto-bids. If the Ivy accepted an auto-bid, you'd have 11. So, the 24 team field could remain in play as is. If for some reason, both the MEAC and the SWAC opted to accept FCS auto-qualifiers instead of going to their bowl game (highly unlikely), then you'd have 13 auto-qualifiers and the tournament by rule would need to expand to AT LEAST 26.

I agree with you that the idea of allowing a second place MEAC or SWAC team to earn an AQ is ridiculous. If the timing worked out, I would say you could potentially have the Celebration Bowl be a de facto playoff game and winner jumps into the tournament whether it be to the Round of 16 or Quarters. Given that the Celebration Bowl takes place during FCS Quarterfinal weekend now and there is likely no appetite from participants to push it closer to end of regular season, probably never happening.

[caribbeanhen]

32 team playoff

problem solved

and make the big boys eat that cupcake in the first round… no more byes

[WestCoastAggie]

1. More than likely, the at-large goes down by one. A 25 or 26-team tournament is not easy to schedule.

2. The Ivy and Pioneer are FCS conferences in good standing and deserve the same autobid privileges as anyone else. As long as FCS has no scholarship minimum it shouldn't matter.

A 28-team playoff is easy to schedule in the vein of the D2 playoff.

[WestCoastAggie]

It is not a benefit to the FCS to give an auto bid to a second place team in the worst conferences in the division. I don’t care how you spin it and I remember when NCAT came to Fargo for a game. They maybe had 50 people there.

We were coming out of a pandemic and the team started it's downslide. If the game happened in 2020, way more Aggies would've been there just on the simple fact we were flying high off the 2019 Celebration Bowl title. I would've made the trip if it wasn't for the pandemic and dragged the ball and chain with me much to her chagrin.

[POD Knows]

That's great thinking. Thinking like yours is what is keeping the FCS in the attendance gutter as well as the broadcasting gutter.

In your way of thinking, why have at-large bids at all? Only give the conference champions a shot at your so "prestigious" tournament that makes no money,

Last season the FCS championship was held in a converted soccer stadium and drew ... wait for it... 18,023.

While the lowly Celebration Bowl played at Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, drew 41,108 and was broadcast on ABC at 12 noon on Saturday, with a payout of $2 million ($1 million for each conference). I could not find a payout for the FCS national championship, guess they want to keep it quite so the celebration bowl will not be jealous.

The point, it's time to do something different in the FCS, what we're doing is not working very well in bringing new fans to the FCS, bring money into the FCS, and better broadcasting into the FCS.

But, you pureist can live with all that.... as long as it's conference champions and 4 or 5 teams from the MVFC, Big Sky and CAA every year...
Completely wrong on all your points. I want the best teams in the playoffs, the auto bids make that more difficult but it is necessary to include the conferences that want to participate the opportunity to do so. I don’t give two ****s about the teams and the conferences that have no interest in the playoffs. It would be nice if they decided to play ball and get on board but until then, **** em.

[The Cats]

Completely wrong on all your points. I want the best teams in the playoffs, the auto bids make that more difficult but it is necessary to include the conferences that want to participate the opportunity to do so. I don’t give two ****s about the teams and the conferences that have no interest in the playoffs. It would be nice if they decided to play ball and get on board but until then, **** em.

I get it, it's your way or no way, right?

That the prevalent thinkings in the FCS and the reason nobody but alumni of the FCS schools involved in the FCS playoffs even know it's happening or cares that it's happening. As long a the MVFC gets it's 4 or 5 in the playoffs, you give a crap about the rest of the FCS and just how bad things really are....

[POD Knows]

I get it, it's your way or no way, right?

That the prevalent thinkings in the FCS and the reason nobody but alumni of the FCS schools involved in the FCS playoffs even know it's happening or cares that it's happening. As long a the MVFC gets it's 4 or 5 in the playoffs, you give a crap about the rest of the FCS and just how bad things really are....
JFC. I want the best teams possible, that earned it, in the playoffs. Granting an auto bid to a second place team in a conference that ranks at the bottom of the division does not accomplish that. If FAMU or NCCU are good enough they can get in with at at large bid. If not, then too bad. It is really simple if you think about it. If the playoffs were expanded, maybe a team like NCCU gets a spot, I think it happened a few years back but I don’t like concessions or deviations to the structure to accommodate someone that is not happy or will not conform to the structure that the rest of the division has agreed to.

[POD Knows]

We were coming out of a pandemic and the team started it's downslide. If the game happened in 2020, way more Aggies would've been there just on the simple fact we were flying high off the 2019 Celebration Bowl title. I would've made the trip if it wasn't for the pandemic and dragged the ball and chain with me much to her chagrin.
2020 was the Covid year, wasn’t it. The game was in 2022 I think, I need to check. In any event it would have probably even a better game with your earlier teams but the 2017-2019 Bison teams won the natty those years so, I don’t know.

[Preferred Walk-On]

32 team playoff

problem solved

and make the big boys eat that cupcake in the first round… no more byes

That would work too. The point is that there is a way to accommodate all conferences participating without sacrificing at-large bids.

With 32, I suppose 4 Ivies could be in. Now, is there any way to make them play the same number of regular season games as the rest of the FCS world?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ElCid]

That would work too. The point is that there is a way to accommodate all conferences participating without sacrificing at-large bids.

With 32, I suppose 4 Ivies could be in. Now, is there any way to make them play the same number of regular season games as the rest of the FCS world?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I mentioned that early on. You got people screaming about 7 or 6 FCS wins now. Ivy league teams in the playoffs going 7-3 would generate lots of argument.

[JacksFan40]

JFC. I want the best teams possible, that earned it, in the playoffs. Granting an auto bid to a second place team in a conference that ranks at the bottom of the division does not accomplish that. If FAMU or NCCU are good enough they can get in with at at large bid. If not, then too bad. It is really simple if you think about it. If the playoffs were expanded, maybe a team like NCCU gets a spot, I think it happened a few years back but I don’t like concessions or deviations to the structure to accommodate someone that is not happy or will not conform to the structure that the rest of the division has agreed to.
NC Central got in last year, and FAMU got in back in 2021. Both got blown out in the first round, as did NC A&T when they were still in the MEAC and got in back in 2018 or so. Last thing we need are more cupcakes in the playoffs.

[POD Knows]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the thread but the NCAA standard is that the # of at-large participants in a postseason tournament must be at least equal to the # of auto-qualifiers. Currently there are 10 FCS conferences accepting auto-bids. If the Ivy accepted an auto-bid, you'd have 11. So, the 24 team field could remain in play as is. If for some reason, both the MEAC and the SWAC opted to accept FCS auto-qualifiers instead of going to their bowl game (highly unlikely), then you'd have 13 auto-qualifiers and the tournament by rule would need to expand to AT LEAST 26.

I agree with you that the idea of allowing a second place MEAC or SWAC team to earn an AQ is ridiculous. If the timing worked out, I would say you could potentially have the Celebration Bowl be a de facto playoff game and winner jumps into the tournament whether it be to the Round of 16 or Quarters. Given that the Celebration Bowl takes place during FCS Quarterfinal weekend now and there is likely no appetite from participants to push it closer to end of regular season, probably never happening.
That is actually not that bad of an idea. Far superior than just handing out AQ to second place teams

[POD Knows]

NC Central got in last year, and FAMU got in back in 2021. Both got blown out in the first round, as did NC A&T when they were still in the MEAC and got in back in 2018 or so. Last thing we need are more cupcakes in the playoffs.
Yea, I hear you but the masses are clamoring to make it even more watered down is if having a second place MEAC or SWAC team get slaughtered during Thanksgiving weekend will add more allure to the playoffs.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

That's great thinking. Thinking like yours is what is keeping the FCS in the attendance gutter as well as the broadcasting gutter.

In your way of thinking, why have at-large bids at all? Only give the conference champions a shot at your so "prestigious" tournament that makes no money,

Last season the FCS championship was held in a converted soccer stadium and drew ... wait for it... 18,023.

While the lowly Celebration Bowl played at Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, drew 41,108 and was broadcast on ABC at 12 noon on Saturday, with a payout of $2 million ($1 million for each conference). I could not find a payout for the FCS national championship, guess they want to keep it quite so the celebration bowl will not be jealous.

The point, it's time to do something different in the FCS, what we're doing is not working very well in bringing new fans to the FCS, bring money into the FCS, and better broadcasting into the FCS.

But, you pureist can live with all that.... as long as it's conference champions and 4 or 5 teams from the MVFC, Big Sky and CAA every year...

Dude,

The Celebration Bowl is a standalone event with a special timeslot during Bowl Mania. In this hypocritical situation, we are talking about a first round game during Rivalry Week. It isn't drawing massive attendance or ABC ratings. The game will be shoved on ESPN+ and played at a SoCon school.

[FUBeAR]

It IS very simple.

On one side we have “PretendPlayoffPuristProtectionists” fans who wish to ‘protect’ the ‘purity’ of a Playoff system that includes D3 equivalent Teams, who generate winning records against other D3 equivalents, D2, actual D3, and NAIA Teams, and also includes Teams that generate winning records avoiding the better Teams in their 27 Teams ‘Conferences,’ including games against D3 equivalents, D2, and NAIA Teams, but maintain highly-ranked (voodoo) Strength of Strength of Schedules because they do have the ‘fortune’ of losing to 1 or 2 of the actually very good Teams in their Conferences, and playing other Teams that ‘enjoy’ that same ‘fortune’ to increase their SoS rankings, with an upshot of ensuring ‘their’ conferences get 3-5 at-large Teams in ‘their’ ’pure’ Playoffs who, also, have no real chance to win the Championship either…at the cost of maintaining a system that does not currently include (for whatever reasons) almost a quarter of the Teams in the Subdivision.

…AND…

On the other side we have FANS who care about the overall Football Championship Subdivision’s health and success.

[caribbeanhen]

Yeah I mentioned that early on. You got people screaming about 7 or 6 FCS wins now. Ivy league teams in the playoffs going 7-3 would generate lots of argument.

until they clock

SEMO
UNH
Drake
N Arizona
central Connecticut
Illinois State
Tenn Martin
Lehigh
E Kentucky
Tennesee St

[caribbeanhen]

That would work too. The point is that there is a way to accommodate all conferences participating without sacrificing at-large bids.

With 32, I suppose 4 Ivies could be in. Now, is there any way to make them play the same number of regular season games as the rest of the FCS world?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t really care if 4 Ivies get in, just want to see good football games and the best teams in and right now, its not happening

32 teams in would should take care of it.

[MSUBobcat]

It IS very simple.

On one side we have “PretendPlayoffPuristProtectionists” fans who wish to ‘protect’ the ‘purity’ of a Playoff system that includes D3 equivalent Teams, who generate winning records against other D3 equivalents, D2, actual D3, and NAIA Teams, and also includes Teams that generate winning records avoiding the better Teams in their 27 Teams ‘Conferences,’ including games against D3 equivalents, D2, and NAIA Teams, but maintain highly-ranked (voodoo) Strength of Strength of Schedules because they do have the ‘fortune’ of losing to 1 or 2 of the actually very good Teams in their Conferences, and playing other Teams that ‘enjoy’ that same ‘fortune’ to increase their SoS rankings, with an upshot of ensuring ‘their’ conferences get 3-5 at-large Teams in ‘their’ ’pure’ Playoffs who, also, have no real chance to win the Championship either…at the cost of maintaining a system that does not currently include (for whatever reasons) almost a quarter of the Teams in the Subdivision.

…AND…

On the other side we have FANS who care about the overall Football Championship Subdivision’s health and success.

Lulz. This whole thread is hilarious, particularly the 2 or 3 people calling everyone else "purists", as if our opinions, or those of our administrations, have anything to do with the MEAC and SWAC not participating. Awarding an AQ to a 2nd place team is complete nonsense. If the champ wants to participate in the playoffs rather than the Celebration Bowl, we welcome them with open arms. If they want to rework the Celebration Bowl timing to be able to participate in both, we again welcome them with open arms. The fact is, those 2 conferences, as well as the Ivies though tides may be turning on that, CHOOSE not to participate and they like their current setup. Why are you arguing for schools that don't want the change in the first place? As for expanded views/attendance, maybe an uptick in attendance for whoever they get sent to and definitely more eyeballs on the ESPN+ stream... for 1 game.

[MSUBobcat]

...and I doubt you'd feel that way IF the Big Sky could send it's champion to a bowl that paid the conference $1 million per season.

Of course no one would guarantee the Big Sky a cool million to play outside the FBS playoffs, so it's a mute point... But if they did I'll bet you'd be crying like hell about at-large bids for the Big Sky...

This is literally the entire debate over moving up or not. Play in a "meaningless" bowl game for a paycheck or stay put and play for a championship. There's whole threads on the topic every time there's a shakeup in the FBS. So you are entirely incorrect that all, or even a majority, of FCS teams and their fanbases would prefer to send its champion to a $1M bowl game.

Further making this a bad argument, at least for the Montana schools, is, if you are correct that the conference SPLITS the money between the members, the MEAC schools each get $166,667 and the SWAC schools get half that. If UM and MSU don't clear $167k hosting 1 playoff game (even after the NC$$ takes its cut of the gate), they definitely do in 2 games. On top of that, home playoff games bring money to the cities the schools are in, while the Celebration Bowl brings money to Atlanta. So the financial aspect is a nonstarter from at least a few fanbases standpoint. Sac State would jump at the idea though....

[FUBeAR]

Lulz. This whole thread is hilarious, particularly the 2 or 3 people calling everyone else "purists", as if our opinions, or those of our administrations, have anything to do with the MEAC and SWAC not participating. Awarding an AQ to a 2nd place team is complete nonsense. If the champ wants to participate in the playoffs rather than the Celebration Bowl, we welcome them with open arms. If they want to rework the Celebration Bowl timing to be able to participate in both, we again welcome them with open arms. The fact is, those 2 conferences, as well as the Ivies though tides may be turning on that, CHOOSE not to participate and they like their current setup. Why are you arguing for schools that don't want the change in the first place? As for expanded views/attendance, maybe an uptick in attendance for whoever they get sent to and definitely more eyeballs on the ESPN+ stream... for 1 game.
https://media.tenor.com/2bT-EGIwYEkAAAAM/this-pointing-finger.gif
Exhibit A.

Nope…MEAC & SWAC Conference & Teams choose to fulfill their fiduciary duty to their Members and their Schools. As a result of that choice, which Montana State and every other FCS Conference/School would, given the same set of circumstances, (and should, if they are responsible financial stewards) make, they are excluded from having representation from their Conferences ‘automatically’ participating in the FCS Playoffs.

Their lack of participation is a net minus to FCS Football.

Not sure of anyone else, but FUBeAR is, in no way, “arguing for schools” or Conferences. Why is it so incredibly difficult for you PretendPlayoffPuristProtectionists to grasp that simple fact? FUBeAR IS “arguing” FOR the overall health and success of FCS Football.

Expressing the impact of adding a quarter of the overall Subdivision into (automatically) having representation in the FCS Playoffs to “1 game” couldn’t be more reductive.

[FUBeAR]

This is literally the entire debate over moving up or not. Play in a "meaningless" bowl game for a paycheck or stay put and play for a championship. There's whole threads on the topic every time there's a shakeup in the FBS. So you are entirely incorrect that all, or even a majority, of FCS teams and their fanbases would prefer to send its champion to a $1M bowl game.

Further making this a bad argument, at least for the Montana schools, is, if you are correct that the conference SPLITS the money between the members, the MEAC schools each get $166,667 and the SWAC schools get half that. If UM and MSU don't clear $167k hosting 1 playoff game (even after the NC$$ takes its cut of the gate), they definitely do in 2 games. On top of that, home playoff games bring money to the cities the schools are in, while the Celebration Bowl brings money to Atlanta. So the financial aspect is a nonstarter from at least a few fanbases standpoint. Sac State would jump at the idea though....
FUBeAR’s argument that all other FCS Conferences & schools would make the same decision that the MEAC & SWAC make, includes the phrase “given the same set of circumstances,” so all of this is just non sequitur fallacy, i.e., a waste of perfectly good pixels.

[Preferred Walk-On]

until they clock

SEMO
UNH
Drake
N Arizona
central Connecticut
Illinois State
Tenn Martin
Lehigh
E Kentucky
Tennesee St

OK, let’s try to maintain a some credibility… ;)


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[MSUBobcat]

FUBeAR’s argument that all other FCS Conferences & schools would make the same decision that the MEAC & SWAC make, includes the phrase “given the same set of circumstances,” so all of this is just non sequitur fallacy, i.e., a waste of perfectly good pixels.

I don't deny others schools "in the same circumstances" would make the same choice. That was not my point in the reply to not you. Nor do I dispute that the FCS AS A WHOLE would be better with them participating, in response to your other reply.. But changing everything to get them to participate seems very.... entitled. I was pretty sure you're too old to be a millennial.

Play or don't play. MSUBobcat gives 0 $#its.

[FUBeAR]

I don't deny others schools "in the same circumstances" would make the same choice. That was not my point in the reply to not you. Nor do I dispute that the FCS AS A WHOLE would be better with them participating, in response to your other reply.. But changing everything to get them to participate seems very.... entitled. I was pretty sure you're too old to be a millennial.

Play or don't play. MSUBobcat gives 0 $#its.
FUBeAR speaks fluent millennial, GenX, and even a smattering of GenZ.

MEAC/SWAC Conferences & schools are trees and the FCS is the forest…

Below is a picture of FUBeAR’s PretendPlayoffPuristProtectionist friends…

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/172971192/photo/man-cant-see-wood-for-trees.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=8vZTpGqt-Q7NLKEYtM46WvR0-EW4-5HYSMP02v5K4eo=

[caribbeanhen]

OK, let’s try to maintain a some credibility… ;)


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alright, I'll take Lehigh off the list

[Preferred Walk-On]

alright, I'll take Lehigh off the list

The “until they clock” part was the problem, but I guess Lehigh is a start. I think the top Ivy could definitely win a first round game, but the “clock(ing)” somebody might be a stretch. And selecting over a quarter of the playoff teams as receiving this “clock(ing)” is the (N)ECB talking.


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[caribbeanhen]

The “until they clock” part was the problem, but I guess Lehigh is a start. I think the top Ivy could definitely win a first round game, but the “clock(ing)” somebody might be a stretch. And selecting over a quarter of the playoff teams as receiving this “clock(ing)” is the (N)ECB talking.


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The North East Community Bank?

[Preferred Walk-On]

The North East Community Bank?

Exactly.


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[NY Crusader 2010]

Yeah I mentioned that early on. You got people screaming about 7 or 6 FCS wins now. Ivy league teams in the playoffs going 7-3 would generate lots of argument.

At-large teams commonly get in at 8-3 and 7-4. A 7-3 Ivy AQ in the playoffs wouldn't be anything earth-shaking. Plus, given SOS and rare games against FBS for the Ivy, chances are any at-large bids they'd receive would have to be 8-2 or better.

[ElCid]

At-large teams commonly get in at 8-3 and 7-4. A 7-3 Ivy AQ in the playoffs wouldn't be anything earth-shaking. Plus, given SOS and rare games against FBS for the Ivy, chances are any at-large bids they'd receive would have to be 8-2 or better.

So in an 11 game season nobody ever mentions a 7-4 team with a D2 win, and say a FBS loss? That was my point. It's mentioned EVERY SINGLE TIME. That team only has 6 FCS wins (said in a whiny voice). Will the Ivies get a pass on this criticism? They play neither D2/3 or FBS. Will they get one at 7-3? I would say probably not, but it will yacked about over and over again.