Temple dropping or re-classifying in Football?

[Go...gate]

I saw some discussion about this on Yahoo Sports today......

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Letter from earlier this week...

Dear Temple University Football Letterwinners and Alumni,

We are writing today to address recent media coverage, which misrepresented Temple’s position with respect to our football program. Football is an integral part of our identity, and we want to honor and reinvigorate our tradition and legacy. For generations, Temple football has been a source of pride and community, bringing us together to celebrate teamwork, perseverance, and excellence on and off the field.

As we write this, we are actively engaged in discussions with several highly-qualified head coach candidates. We are searching for a coach who will infuse energy into the program and position us to compete for conference championships and play in bowl games. We look forward to making an announcement soon.

We recognize that the landscape of college football, and intercollegiate athletics in general, is changing rapidly. Conference realignment, the transfer portal, and Name, Image, and Likeness opportunities, among many other factors, are reshaping the dynamics of competition. These challenges demand that we adapt and innovate to ensure Temple football not only survives but thrives in this evolving environment.

Last spring, under the leadership of Vice President/Debbie and Stanley Lefkowitz ’65 Director of Athletics Arthur Johnson, and with oversight from the Board of Trustees, the university began a comprehensive review and assessment of the athletics program. This evaluation started prior to President Fry’s arrival. No single program is the focus of that review. Any indication to the contrary is not accurate. Like many other schools across the country, this proactive step was taken so the university can strategically plan amidst a dynamic and shifting landscape.

As we move into the next chapter of Temple football, we want to reiterate our commitment to the program and send our appreciation for your continued support. We have an opportunity now to position Temple where it belongs in the college football landscape and none of that would be possible without you.

Go Owls!

John Fry
President

Arthur Johnson
Vice President/Debbie and Stanley Lefkowitz ’65 Director of Athletics

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It's late and so I'll keep this short. Reading the first paragraph is clearly a reflection of a President and AD trying to squelch the fire by appealing to the simplest of observers. Football is an integral part of our identity? Honor and reinvigorate our tradition?

Then there's this.....

"For generations, Temple football has been a source of pride and community, bringing us together to celebrate teamwork, perseverance, and excellence on and off the field." All I got at 1:30 in the morning is....Huh?!?! The reason the letter was needed is the LACK of those things highlighted! How can a university president be so obtuse?

[bonarae]

I saw some discussion about this on Yahoo Sports today......

Searched Y Sports, but nothing found... xsighx

[Go...gate]

Searched Y Sports, but nothing found... xsighx

It was there. I stumbled across it and was, needless to say, surprised.

[Pards Rule]

I know John Fry well. Lafayette class of 1982. He understands sports ties with colleges.

[Sitting Bull]

Maybe they can take Delawares spot in the CAA.

They need to get back on campus and play a regional schedule.

[caribbeanhen]

Maybe they can take Delawares spot in the CAA.

They need to get back on campus and play a regional schedule.

or stay put and start scheduling Delaware again

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The biggest conundrum with Temple football is where they would play, FCS or FBS. IDK if they could play in their Temple Sports Complex at the FCS level. If they did wish to continue at FCS, they might need to share with Villanova (?) for a short while.

[mainejeff]

Maybe they can take Delawares spot in the CAA.

They need to get back on campus and play a regional schedule.

That would be cool. I would imagine that a Temple/Nova rivalry game would get some attention in Philly.

[Outsider1]

"We are searching for a coach who will infuse energy into the program and position us to compete for conference championships and play in bowl games."

This right here looks like they are staying FBS if they mention bowl games.

[DFW HOYA]

The biggest conundrum with Temple football is where they would play, FCS or FBS. IDK if they could play in their Temple Sports Complex at the FCS level. If they did wish to continue at FCS, they might need to share with Villanova (?) for a short while.

The soccer field at the sports complex seats 500. Their practice field is a very tight space.

https://images.sidearmdev.com/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdxbhsrqyrr690.cloudfront. net%2Fsidearm.nextgen.sites%2Fowlsports.com%2Fimag es%2F2020%2F3%2F6%2F20170627_Athletic_Facilities_0 11.jpg&height=300&type=webp

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Temple has 3 options for a facility that is suitable for FCS. However, I do not see the institution going in this direction given history/ego...

Geasey Field could easily support a 7-10k seat stadium in a N/S orientation

https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/468698730_9260860670612948_7502565616607687753_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=JeI9HMsWQsQQ7kNvgHbgNyF&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&_nc_gid=ArVcCFQWlZz-fmx2Gwggb_Z&oh=00_AYCVM-NB076eP-ZBsNQgn5KR_-eEFZ8j7Sx6VT4v7wRngg&oe=674E83F8

Soccer Stadium could be converted into a "Duquesne-esque" facility...no ideal...
https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/468806026_9260864997279182_8760349177034037679_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=pDcEBwp9f7kQ7kNvgFpAnJu&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&_nc_gid=Au9ZGaYq-P3cYv6euUmkoJs&oh=00_AYCbIGwQedzzYkMFl9FUSNvEiLhSPVuGv4RyfP15Hkwd cA&oe=674E922F

Best option, redevelop Columbia Field. Footprint for a 10-15k seat stadium with easy access to Temple's train station and subway.
https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/468853763_9260865300612485_2801107676831199544_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=-gDAl0yT1WwQ7kNvgHol-6X&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ANjyWxM87p8Kt8lxMDtUHSN&oh=00_AYBTM8GJhp6uvmwOqzgRAe2wN5kn4Smtnw3GD5E5KIZ5 rQ&oe=674E99DF

Temple is a landlocked institution...
https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/468700828_9260865663945782_720266689491304230_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=nO-Wi4JqJfwQ7kNvgH88Nlu&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&_nc_gid=AhenRP68lGBwGDb2PaPJDAK&oh=00_AYBCKLWUbi4iK-YmYU0Eogv5AfHJHXFFZ5UPeRlLjztSDw&oe=674E96AE

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

They should either stay FBS or fold the program. Dropping down to FCS won't generate any momentum.

It is a shame. If Temple didn't squander its Big East tenure, they could have been in the ACC.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Columbia Field would also have Jack Coffey Field (Fordham) vibes...

https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/468806214_9260923437273338_5539042105126640660_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=uX4djRx8vDEQ7kNvgH8rbaO&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ALlR3EDJJ2NUfw59Qko-KWD&oh=00_AYBZZYeCVmYd74Vx8VY0pbFEezPeaaGHgz0zG15H8dEH Zg&oe=674EB7EF

[ngineer]

I can't see that Temple makes any money on football, so dropping to FCS level may not have a significant financial impact. Of course, I know there are a lot of factors that have to be analyzed, but they appear to be banging their heads against the wall for the past few decades, with a few exceptions. But with the change of the financial landscape in "major" college football, pretending to 'reinvigorate' or whatever tradition existed is whistling past the graveyard. Heck, Temple playing Villanova, and other regional FCS schools could redevelop some old time rivalries...Penn, Princeton, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell...all within a two hour drive radius.

[Go...gate]

It creates some intriguing possibilities.....

[DFW HOYA]

I can't see that Temple makes any money on football, so dropping to FCS level may not have a significant financial impact. Of course, I know there are a lot of factors that have to be analyzed, but they appear to be banging their heads against the wall for the past few decades, with a few exceptions. But with the change of the financial landscape in "major" college football, pretending to 'reinvigorate' or whatever tradition existed is whistling past the graveyard. Heck, Temple playing Villanova, and other regional FCS schools could redevelop some old time rivalries...Penn, Princeton, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell...all within a two hour drive radius.

Temple brings about $9-10 million in football annually: $7 million from the AAC contract and ~$2-3 million from ticket sales and sponsorships. That's still a loss from a $24 million budget that is likely covered by student fees and a state subsidy to pay the rent at Lincoln Financial Field. Both revenue figures drop to nearly zero with FCS. Add the cost of a new, smaller facility and it's a hard stop. And it doesn't address the fact that other Temple sports would be booted from the AAC and could literally have nowhere to go: the Big East isn't interested in expansion and the A-10 might pass as well.

Temple isn't downgrading football. This entire conversation sounds a lot like Rutgers professor William Dowling's quixotic campaign in the early 2000s for the Scarlet Knights to leave the Big East, drop scholarships, and join the Patriot League. Instead, they joined the Big Ten and will make $100 million a year from media rights, albeit to finish near the bottom of the standings.

[Go...gate]

Temple MAKES money on football????

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Temple MAKES money on football????

Temple makes money by HAVING football. Ahh, the wonderment of TV contracts....

DFW articulated the convoluted reality Temple lives in quite well.

[UNHWildcat18]

They are going to keep football, until they drop football.

I don’t see them going to FCS.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I can't see that Temple makes any money on football, so dropping to FCS level may not have a significant financial impact. Of course, I know there are a lot of factors that have to be analyzed, but they appear to be banging their heads against the wall for the past few decades, with a few exceptions. But with the change of the financial landscape in "major" college football, pretending to 'reinvigorate' or whatever tradition existed is whistling past the graveyard. Heck, Temple playing Villanova, and other regional FCS schools could redevelop some old time rivalries...Penn, Princeton, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell...all within a two hour drive radius.

Temple has scheduled home games with Penn State (2026), Oklahoma (2025), and Duke (2028). They have hosted Notre Dame (College Gameday), Miami, and Penn State, and other P5 schools in the last decade.

Why would they drop those premium games so Lehigh and Lafayette can bring 500 fans to a Temple FCS home game?

Philly already ignores Temple football except for those big games. The city isn't going to care about the Mayor's Cup becoming a yearly series or the Owls playing Penn and other PA FCS schools.

For Temple; the only play is FBS football or disbanding. Dropping to FCS doesn't solve the stadium issue (NIMBYs are killing their smart proposal for a smaller, on-campus site).

[CHIP72]

With Temple not having an on-campus football stadium of any kind presently, it makes no sense financially for Temple to build a facility and then drop to/play at the DI-AA/FCS level. That's especially true considering their attendance struggles while playing at the DI-A/FBS level. Why spend millions of dollars to build a stadium when few people are going to attend games anyway and you make your brand less prominent?

Temple will either stay at the DI-A/FBS level and continue to play at Lincoln Financial Field (though Citizens Bank Park could potentially be an option if the Linc becomes too expensive) or drop football entirely.

A few more notes:

1) Temple wouldn't have fired Stan Drayton before the end of the season if they were likely to drop football after this season. They'll probably continue to play football for at least a few more years.

2) Temple already has an excellent facility on-campus for basketball in the Liacouras Center (which can also be used for various other sports and non-sports events), yet the Owls often struggle to draw well there. (Their mediocre play the last few years is a factor, but they didn't draw great even when they had stronger teams earlier in the life of the Liacouras Center, which was opened in the late 1990s.)

3) IMO, Temple also should not try to build an on-campus stadium even if they remain at the DI-A/FBS level, though some of the reasons are a little different than why they shouldn't build a stadium for DI-AA/FCS football (insufficient space for a 30K seat stadium, insufficient supporting infrastructure such as parking on TU's campus, lack of highway access to/from Temple's campus, and greater community impact caused by a larger stadium and potentially larger crowds).

[NY Crusader 2010]

Temple brings about $9-10 million in football annually: $7 million from the AAC contract and ~$2-3 million from ticket sales and sponsorships. That's still a loss from a $24 million budget that is likely covered by student fees and a state subsidy to pay the rent at Lincoln Financial Field. Both revenue figures drop to nearly zero with FCS. Add the cost of a new, smaller facility and it's a hard stop. And it doesn't address the fact that other Temple sports would be booted from the AAC and could literally have nowhere to go: the Big East isn't interested in expansion and the A-10 might pass as well.

Temple isn't downgrading football. This entire conversation sounds a lot like Rutgers professor William Dowling's quixotic campaign in the early 2000s for the Scarlet Knights to leave the Big East, drop scholarships, and join the Patriot League. Instead, they joined the Big Ten and will make $100 million a year from media rights, albeit to finish near the bottom of the standings.

Zero shot the Big East would give Temple a sniff. I would think the A-10 would welcome them back though.

And I think LU Temple Owl and RedFlash are generally right about FCS. I don't see it happening. I think either:

1) Temple drops football and goes back into the A-10 in all sports
2) Temple stays where they're at remains in the American for all sports
3) When the ACC splits inevitably, they join up with a group of schools that possibly includes the likes of Duke, Pitt, Wake, G. Tech, 'Cuse, BC, UConn, maybe Army/Navy and end up in a new conference.

[Outsider1]

Their letter literally stated: 1) They aren't dropping football, and 2) They are staying FBS.

[Sitting Bull]

Their letter literally stated: 1) They aren't dropping football, and 2) They are staying FBS.

So, proceed as usual. Which begs the question, what was the purpose of the letter in the first place.

[Outsider1]

So, proceed as usual. Which begs the question, what was the purpose of the letter in the first place.

Clearing up rumors and talk so everyone can proceed as usual.

[Sitting Bull]

Clearing up rumors and talk so everyone can proceed as usual.

So nothing to see here. Move along.

[rhowdyram]

Maybe they can take Delawares spot in the CAA.

They need to get back on campus and play a regional schedule.

For years on the URI message board we've been hoping Temple would drop to FCS, join the CAA, and come back home to the Atlantic 10 for everything else. This gives some hope for that, but I still highly doubt it happens.

[rhowdyram]

Temple brings about $9-10 million in football annually: $7 million from the AAC contract and ~$2-3 million from ticket sales and sponsorships. That's still a loss from a $24 million budget that is likely covered by student fees and a state subsidy to pay the rent at Lincoln Financial Field. Both revenue figures drop to nearly zero with FCS. Add the cost of a new, smaller facility and it's a hard stop. And it doesn't address the fact that other Temple sports would be booted from the AAC and could literally have nowhere to go: the Big East isn't interested in expansion and the A-10 might pass as well.

Temple isn't downgrading football. This entire conversation sounds a lot like Rutgers professor William Dowling's quixotic campaign in the early 2000s for the Scarlet Knights to leave the Big East, drop scholarships, and join the Patriot League. Instead, they joined the Big Ten and will make $100 million a year from media rights, albeit to finish near the bottom of the standings.

I don't see anyway the A10 turns down Temple if they want to come back.

[Outsider1]

They don't, they said so. It's fun to watch people talk about "what ifs" though. Maybe when Temple announces that they actually are moving down, those conversations will actually mean something.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Clearing up rumors and talk so everyone can proceed as usual.

PR 101: Issuing a very public vote of confidence that everything is hunky dory is either 1) a horrible idea, because it keeps the idea open for more news cycles (even if it's true) or 2) things are not hunky dory, and you are putting on a big show of fake bravado to show people otherwise.

Now, I don't pretend to know which of these two possibilities this is, but the one thing I know this letter didn't do is clear up a single rumor and made people stop talking about it.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I don't see anyway the A10 turns down Temple if they want to come back.

Congrats on having to update your signature this year for the first time since 1995! Exciting times for URI football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Current optics for the Temple vs North Texas game. Did Tennessee State draw better when they played at the Titan's Stadium?

https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/468960455_9270861016279580_1829446708711651973_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=AlYU2-aWqkUQ7kNvgGS-tPE&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ATZezhVPiHmTbQv47ZbzXQz&oh=00_AYCffZjtTl1e4whgjeStA4Zl5U0uG_JZw53izwfNJ7Hb OQ&oe=67513621

[Outsider1]

PR 101: Issuing a very public vote of confidence that everything is hunky dory is either 1) a horrible idea, because it keeps the idea open for more news cycles (even if it's true) or 2) things are not hunky dory, and you are putting on a big show of fake bravado to show people otherwise.

Now, I don't pretend to know which of these two possibilities this is, but the one thing I know this letter didn't do is clear up a single rumor and made people stop talking about it.

They are not going to though. Besides the letter spelling it out, there is too much at stake. They have the money and pride to stay. There is no advantage to dropping for them, even as irrelevant as they are now in the larger realm of high money college sports.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They are not going to though. Besides the letter spelling it out, there is too much at stake. They have the money and pride to stay. There is no advantage to dropping for them, even as irrelevant as they are now in the larger realm of high money college sports.

There is clearly some faction that is becoming more vocal about things, but IDK if that's just media chasing clicks or something more substantial.

[Sitting Bull]

I imagine someone at Temple is responsible for finances. And despite what we may all think on a sports board, just losing millions of dollars each year to field a football team no one is supporting is not going to be an acceptable long term solution.

[DFW HOYA]

I imagine someone at Temple is responsible for finances. And despite what we may all think on a sports board, just losing millions of dollars each year to field a football team no one is supporting is not going to be an acceptable long term solution.

A few FCS teams lose a lot on football too. Fordham has a football budget of over $8 million and averaged 1,706 per game this past season.

[Sitting Bull]

A few FCS teams lose a lot on football too. Fordham has a football budget of over $8 million and averaged 1,706 per game this past season.

Except the dollars lost are considerably higher in Temples case - and will only get worse. Remember, unlike Fordham, Temple has decided to compete at Penn State levels.

[DFW HOYA]

Except the dollars lost are considerably higher in Temples case - and will only get worse. Remember, unlike Fordham, Temple has decided to compete at Penn State levels.

Temple gets a check for $7 million for media rights in the AAC. Associate members of the Patriot League get a check for $14,000. Their issues are less about poor attendance and more about how they will address revenue sharing and NIL.

Realistically, the AAC is not competing at a Big Ten level. No one is confusing UNC-Charlotte with Ohio State, either.

[Sitting Bull]

Temple gets a check for $7 million for media rights in the AAC. Associate members of the Patriot League get a check for $14,000. Their issues are less about poor attendance and more about how they will address revenue sharing and NIL.

Realistically, the AAC is not competing at a Big Ten level. No one is confusing UNC-Charlotte with Ohio State, either.

Temples football expenses are $29M. So to imply Fordham is comparable in money lost/invested is kind of nuts.

Just look at the picture. That’s a Fordham size crowd at the Linc. That’s not a financial success story.

Charlotte has chosen to compete in the same Division as Ohio State. They are playing off the same book - scholarships, coaches, etc. The fact they aren’t confused in the same boat is kind of my point. Why pretend and throw all that money away.

[Libertine]

Temple has hired a new coach.

It's KC Keeler.

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/temple-football-new-coach-kc-keeler-20241201.html

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Except the dollars lost are considerably higher in Temples case - and will only get worse. Remember, unlike Fordham, Temple has decided to compete at Penn State levels.

Remember, unlike Fordham, Temple will be hosting Penn State in two years.

[caribbeanhen]

Temple has hired a new coach.

It's KC Keeler.

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/temple-football-new-coach-kc-keeler-20241201.html

that link wouldn’t open for me Libertine, but here’s another one

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/temple-to-hire-k-c-keeler-from-sam-houston-two-time-fcs-national-championship-coach-joining-owls/

KC will be working that portal

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

that link wouldn’t open for me Libertine, but here’s another one

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/temple-to-hire-k-c-keeler-from-sam-houston-two-time-fcs-national-championship-coach-joining-owls/

KC will be working that portal

I'm very happy with this decision! I believe Temple football can be a point of pride to bring the Owl Community together under Keeler's leadership

[caribbeanhen]

I'm very happy with this decision! I believe Temple football can point of pride to bring the Owl Community together under Keeler's leadership

65 years old and willing to take on the Temple project.... KC could have influence on getting Delaware back on the Temple schedule as they have given the FCS Hens the Bird for decades

[Daytripper]

We hate losing him but wish him the best heading back home.

[caribbeanhen]

We hate losing him but wish him the best heading back home.

Hello DayTripper, Sorry we wont be able to host Sam Houston with KC as the coach now... ouch

it's ironic that KC tried to get Delaware to upgrade the stadium and facilities more than 15 years ago at Delaware and they wanted nothing to do with it and eventually fired him.

So what happens, the people that fired him moved on and then Delaware makes the upgrades that KC wanted..... and Ryan Carty, another Sam Houston coach, stands to benefit greatly from it.

I wonder how Carty feels about having his Daddy KC up in Philadelphia working that portal like only KC can and stealing his little buddies recruits ....

[CHIP72]

I like the K.C. Keeler hire quite a bit myself. Probably not a home run hire (there may not be a home run hire available for Temple), but it is at least a double or triple.

[Pards Rule]

We hate losing him but wish him the best heading back home.

Lol you stole Keegan Shoemaker from us and now John Fry (who I know well, Lafayette class of 82) as new Temple president on Nov. 1 steals Keeler. Fair enough!

[Sitting Bull]

Remember, unlike Fordham, Temple will be hosting Penn State in two years.

Prostitution is legal in Pennsylvania.

[centraljerseycat]

Maybe Temple will schedule Villanova again now that KC is back. The Linc is such a great football venue.

[dbackjon]

Temple has hired a new coach.

It's KC Keeler.

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/temple-football-new-coach-kc-keeler-20241201.html

Great Hire!