PDA

View Full Version : 2024 Week 10 Playoff Prognostication



Professor Chaos
November 3rd, 2024, 11:45 AM
We're now 3 weeks away from Selection Sunday and we're starting to see the herd of teams in playoff contention thinned but I've still got 33 teams amongst 8 conferences vying for 21 available spots (the other 3 are autos from one-bid leagues) so there's still a lot to be decided. To get a handle on it I broke it down by conference listing the teams in order from where I think (using Massey as a guide) each team sits in terms of easiest path to the playoffs (or who's already in) to toughest path within their conference. You can see all of Massey's updated numbers at https://masseyratings.com/cf2024/fcs/ratings and clicking on each team there gives the details I'm using below. The numbers in brackets behind each team is Massey's expected remaining wins and losses and the percentage in parenthesis behind each remaining game is Massey's percentage that each team wins that respective game. Using Massey percentages to project the remaining games I put together what I think would be the field at the bottom of this post if it all played out like it's supposed to (which we all know it won't).


Big Sky
Not much changed in the Big Sky from last week. Montana St locked themselves into the field and UC Davis put themselves on the precipice needing only 1 win in their last 3 to lock themselves in and they may sneak in even if they lose their final 3. Montana is looking pretty solid but they've got 2 tough ones in their last 3 although they could probably drop both and still make it in if they beat PSU. Idaho is probably in good shape being favored in each of their final 3 and only needing to win 2 of them to get in. NAU took care of the toughest of their remaining games (by Massey's estimation) taking down Weber St yesterday meaning they're heavy favorites to win out and that would definitely put them in consideration but they'd be at the mercy of the bubble with a D2 win and no notable wins (but they would have respectable losses). It looks like the Big Sky will get at least 4 bids with a shot at 5 and could have as many as 4 in the top 16.

Locks
Montana St 9-0 (5-0) [2.12/0.88] - Sac St (80%), @UC Davis (66%), Montana (65%)

Trending towards in
UC Davis 8-1 (5-0) [1.21/1.79] - @Montana (33%), Montana St (34%), @Sac St (54%)

Work left to do
Montana 7-2 (4-1) [1.86/1.14] - UC Davis (67%), Portland St (83%), @Montana St (35%)
Idaho 6-3 (3-2) [2.13/0.87] - @Portland St (72%), Weber St (67%), @Idaho St (74%)

Must win out
Northern Arizona 5-4 (3-2) [2.43/0.57] - @Cal Poly (88%), @UNC (93%), EWU (62%)


CAA
The herd of CAA teams thinned a bit as 3 teams dropped off the list but there's still 7 playoff contenders. Rhode Island is one win away from locking in their spot and a win over Delaware might put them in line for a top 8 seed and a first round bye. Richmond and Villanova are both favored in each of their final 3 although each have some coin flip games going by the Massey odds - I think Richmond is in a slightly better spot but both are likely in if they can win at least 1 and should be locked in if they can win 2 more. Stony Brook keeps piling up wins but the rubber meets the road now as Massey has them as an underdog in each of their final 3 and they'll need to win at least one, maybe two, to get themselves in. William and Mary needs to win their next 2 or put themselves in a real tough spot needing to win their season finale @Richmond and even at 8-4 I think they'd be pretty sketchy but the bubble is looking fairly weak. Of the two teams that need to win out UNH is in a much better spot using Massey's odds but they'll need to start by winning a coin flip against Monmouth next week. The floor for the CAA is 3 bids but could be as many as 6 so it'll probably be somewhere in between - there's still a lot to be determined in terms of how many CAA teams can make it into the top 8 or the top 16 as well.

Trending towards in
Rhode Island 8-1 (5-0) [1.69/1.31] - @Delaware (25%), Albany (65%), @Bryant (79%)
Richmond 7-2 (5-0) [2.09/0.91] - @Campbell (78%), @Hampton (73%), W&M (58%)

Work left to do
Villanova 7-2 (4-1) [2.10/0.90] - NC A&T (99%), @Monmouth (56%), Delaware (56%)
Stony Brook 7-2 (4-1) [1.04/1.96] - Albany (45%), @UNH (21%), Monmouth (38%)
William & Mary 6-3 (3-2) [1.99/1.01] - Elon (68%), Bryant (90%), @Richmond (42%)

Must win out
New Hampshire 5-4 (3-2) [1.94/1.06] - Monmouth (55%), SBU (79%), @Maine (60%)
Hampton 5-4 (2-3) [0.92/2.08] - @Towson (33%), Richmond (27%), @Albany (31%)


MVFC
NDSU locked in their playoff spot today and SDSU looks to be following fairly soon in locking themselves in. USD needs to win 2 of their final 3 to lock in which is very doable but if they drop their penultimate regular season game @UND having to beat NDSU in the final week to get there would be a tough out. I think Illinois St needs to win out to lock in as they'd be pretty shaky at 8-4 (assuming they take a season ending loss to UND as Massey projects). UND took their 2nd straight stunning loss to put their playoff hopes on life support as they've got SDSU and USD at home the next two weeks and follow that up with a road trip to Illinois St needing to win all 3 to get in - they'd be an interesting case study at 7-5 because they'd need to get a couple of very impressive wins to get there but that seems unlikely to happen so it's not worth discussing it much yet. It's possible the MVFC could only have 3 playoff teams but 4 is still a possibility and 5 seems pretty much out of the question although they could end up getting 2 of the top 3 seeds though and perhaps 3 in the top 8 since NDSU, SDSU, and USD were all in the top 4 of the committee's top 10 released earlier this week. One note out of left field is Indiana St - if they can pull a stunner @USD next week they'd have a real shot at finishing 7-5 on a 5 game winning streak and could come out of nowhere to steal a bid.

Locks
NDSU 9-1 (6-0) [1.55/0.45] - Missouri St (87%), @USD (68%)

Trending towards in
SDSU 7-2 (4-1) [2.68/0.32] - @UND (85%), SIU (99%), @Missouri St (84%)
USD 6-2 (4-1) [1.93/1.07] - Indiana St (>99%), @UND (62%), NDSU (32%)

Work left do to
Illinois St 6-3 (3-2) [1.73/1.27] - @UNI (52%), @Indiana St (81%), UND (39%)

Must win out
UND 5-4 (2-3) [1.14/1.86] - SDSU (15%), USD (38%), @Illinois St (61%)


SOCON
Mercer is looking very good after a big win over ETSU needing only a win @VMI next week to lock themselves in. But WCU's win over Chattanooga threw the rest of the league into an all-out brawl to try to get to Selection Sunday with less than 5 losses with no margin for error left for Chattanooga and ETSU as they join WCU in the group that needs to win out. UTC probably has the best Massey odds to do that as ETSU and WCU play a coin flip game next week with the loser being eliminated and WCU has another coin flip game (according to Massey) at Samford to end the season. I do think Mercer's seed window took a slight hit with Chattanooga's loss yesterday but they're likely still a top 8 seed if they can finish 9-2 - that might be it for SOCON teams in the top 16 though as 2-3 bids is their ceiling and those last 1-2 teams will probably be amongst the bottom 8 if they make it into the playoffs.

Trending towards in
Mercer 8-1 (5-1) [1.71/1.29] - @VMI (93%), @Bama (<1%), Furman (77%)

Must win out
Chattanooga 5-4 (4-2) [2.24/0.76] - @Citadel (88%), Samford (74%), @APSU (62%)
East Tennessee St 5-4 (3-2) [2.06/0.94] - WCU (52%), Furman (66%), @VMI (87%)
Western Carolina 5-4 (4-1) [1.90/1.10] - @ETSU (48%), VMI (91%), @Samford (51%)


UAC
It was pandemonium in the UAC yesterday with both Tarleton and UCA taking surprising losses (UCA especially losing to previously winless Utah Tech in a game Massey gave them a 90% chance to win). That means the chances the league gets an at-large took a hit and their chance for multiple at-larges likely goes out the window entirely. Tarleton goes from trending towards in to needing to get back on track for the playoffs after their loss to EKU since they have both ACU and UCA on the schedule still. ACU has 3 coin flip games left and needs to win all 3 to lock themselves in - winning 2 may be enough (and could even get them the autobid) but it depends on which two they win and how much help they get. UCA still needs to play @EKU and Tarleton so they've got to get the ship righted in a hurry or they'll be out of the playoff picture as well now that they've got that anchor of a loss to Utah Tech weighing them down when it comes to at-large consideration. EKU stays on this list for one more week but it seems unlikely they can keep the magic going. The UAC may not be able to get any teams into the top 8 seeds when it's all said and done but there's still a lot to be decided here in the final 3 weeks.

Work left to do
Tarleton St 7-2 (4-1) [1.73/1.27] - @UWG (73%), ACU (52%), UCA (48%)
Abilene Christian 6-3 (5-1) [1.45/1.55] - @APSU (52%), @Tarleton (48%), @SFA (45%)
Central Arkansas 6-3 (3-2) [1.72/1.28] - @EKU (59%), SUU (61%), @Tarleton (52%)

Must win out
Eastern Kentucky 5-4 (2-2) [1.47/1.53] - UCA (41%), @APSU (40%), UNA (66%)


OVC/Big South
Nothing changed for SEMO as they were idle and look to be speeding towards an undefeated against the FCS 11-1 regular season and perhaps a top 4 seed. UTM's win over Tennessee St didn't change much in the outlook for the conference as UTM still is in a good spot as heavy favorites in their final 3 and winning out should lock them in. Tennessee St still has a tough road as Massey sees them as a slight favorite against WIU next week but heavy underdogs in their final two @G-W and vs SEMO so they may be in trouble. It does seem like the OVC gets an at-large this year but if UTM takes an ugly loss it could still be just a one-bid league.

Trending towards in
Southeast Missouri St 8-1 (5-0) [2.51/0.49] - @Lindenwood (83%), WIU (86%), @TSU (81%)

Work left to do
UT Martin 6-3 (4-1) [2.66/0.34] - @CSU (92%), TTU (84%), Lindenwood (89%)
Tennessee St 6-3 (3-2) [1.03/1.97] - @WIU (56%), @G-W (29%), SEMO (19%)


Southland
Incarnate Word is in good shape needing to win 2 of their final 3 to get in which is very doable but winning out probably gets them a top 8 seed and a first round bye. SFA gets one more gimme against TAMU-CC but after that things get tough as they close out the season against conference leader UIW and with a very intriguing final week OOC matchup with ACU which could turn into a playoff game in it's own right. Lamar is on their last legs and doesn't seem to be like they'll be in the playoff conversation much longer. SLU is going to be an interesting team if they finish 7-5 - their win over SFA is looking better and better and their schedule has been brutal as their losses so far are to 2 FBS teams, SDSU, UIW, and Tarleton so they'd be a pretty good looking 7-5 team with how soft the bubble is looking this year. It's still possible the SLC only gets the autobid but they still could get as many as 2 at-large bids.

Trending towards in
Incarnate Word 7-2 (4-0) [2.30/0.70] - Lamar (87%), @SFA (52%), @TAMU-CC (91%)

Work left to do
Stephen F Austin 6-3 (4-2) [1.92/1.08] - @TAMU-CC (90%), UIW (48%), ACU (55%)

Must win out
Lamar 5-4 (2-2) [0.85/2.15] - @UIW (13%), Nicholls (36%), @McNeese (36%)
SE Louisiana 5-5 (4-1) [1.42/0.58] - NWSU (97%), @Nicholls (45%)


Others
I added NC Central to this list as their loss to SCSU drops them out of the lead position for the MEAC's spot in the Celebration Bowl. I don't think they'll have much of a shot at an at-large bid though as they only have 11 games scheduled with one of those being a sub-D1 game so they can only get to 8-3 (7-3 vs D1 opponents). They also have an ugly loss to Elon who has long bowed out of playoff contention in the CAA which will likely hurt them. The other 3 autobid leagues - the NEC, Patriot, and Pioneer - are all almost certainly just one bid leagues this year.

Must win out
NC Central 6-3 (2-1) [1.75/0.25] - Howard (84%), @DSU (91%)


The Field

So there's 14 at-large available - this is where I see them landing if things go to plan based on Massey odds over the final 3 weeks (which of course they won't) - the lists include the autos so there's one additional team for each conference on top of the at-larges:
Big Sky: 4 - Montana St (12-0), Montana (9-3), UC Davis (9-3), Idaho (9-3), NAU (8-4)
CAA: 3 - Richmond (10-2), Rhode Island (10-2), Villanova (10-2), UNH (8-4)
MVFC: 3 - NDSU (11-1), SDSU (10-2), USD (8-3), Illinois St (8-4)
SOCON: 2 - Mercer (10-2), Chattanooga (8-4), ETSU (8-4)
UAC: 1 - UCA (9-3), Tarleton (9-3)
OVC/Big South: 1 - SEMO (11-1), UTM (9-3)
SLC: 0 - UIW (10-2)

The other 3 autos:
Patriot: Holy Cross (7-5)
NEC: Duquesne (9-2)
Pioneer: Drake (9-1)

The seeds (there's 16 now... woo-hoo!)
1. NDSU (11-1)
2. Montana St (12-0)
3. SDSU (10-2)
4. SEMO (11-1)
5. UIW (10-2)
6. Mercer (10-2)
7. USD (8-3)
8. Richmond (10-2)
9. Montana (9-3)
10. UC Davis (9-3)
11. Idaho (9-3)
12. Rhode Island (10-2)
13. Villanova (10-2)
14. UCA (9-3)
15. UTM (9-3)
16. Tarleton (9-3)

Last 4 in: Chattanooga (8-4), ETSU (8-4), Illinois St (8-4), NAU (8-4)
First 4 out: SFA (8-4), William & Mary (8-4), ACU (7-5), WCU (7-5)

Others on the outside looking in amongst the teams I've listed above: NC Central (8-3), Stony Brook (7-5), TSU (7-5), SLU(6-6), UND (6-6), EKU (6-6), Hampton (5-7), Lamar (5-7)

The bubble tightened a bit with NAU and UNH entering the picture at a projected 8-4 (although UND exited it) - that bumped out two 8-win teams mentioned above in SFA and W&M. I'm not sure how the UAC auto would play out in this scenario since, if the Massey projections hold, there would be a 3 way tie for the conference title between ACU, Tarleton, and UCA. The seeds are a mess after about #5 as I was trying to take into consideration some of the future games with the Massey projected winner and loser moving up/down accordingly (if it plays out like this - which it very likely won't). I gave a projected 8-3 USD a healthy bump up since the playoff selection committee had them at #4 in their recently released top 10 and I can't imagine that a projected loss to #1 seed NDSU would bump them down much. I had a hard time with Idaho - since they were ranked #7 in the committee's top 10 and I have them seeded at #11 even though they're projected to win out from here but UC Davis being projected to lose to both Montana schools made me bump Idaho down accordingly due to their head-to-head loss to UC Davis and their equal records.

What do you think? Feel free to throw out your projection - it's kind of a fun exercise IMO.

Go Lehigh TU Owl
November 3rd, 2024, 02:01 PM
If Buckell wins out to capture the PL autobid while Lehigh finishes 8-3 and PL co-champs I think the Mountain Hawks would get legitimate consideration given how they would have closed the year combined with their 8 D1 wins and no bad losses per se (Army, Yale, Bucknell). We're a long way from that happening though....

Professor Chaos
November 3rd, 2024, 04:02 PM
If Buckell wins out to capture the PL autobid while Lehigh finishes 8-3 and PL co-champs I think the Mountain Hawks would get legitimate consideration given how they would have closed the year combined with their 8 D1 wins and no bad losses per se (Army, Yale, Bucknell). We're a long way from that happening though....
I'm not seeing it. The Patriot League has so little substance this year there's really no chance for Lehigh, or anyone else in the PL for that matter, to rack up quality wins to match against the other bubble teams. I'm not sure you can discount losses to Yale and Bucknell all that much either since Bucknell will be 7-5 at best and Yale will be 6-4 at best unless they win at Harvard - not awful losses but still losses that should hurt Lehigh's at-large chances IMO.

crusader11
November 3rd, 2024, 04:25 PM
I'm not seeing it. The Patriot League has so little substance this year there's really no chance for Lehigh, or anyone else in the PL for that matter, to rack up quality wins to match against the other bubble teams. I'm not sure you can discount losses to Yale and Bucknell all that much either since Bucknell will be 7-5 at best and Yale will be 6-4 at best unless they win at Harvard - not awful losses but still losses that should hurt Lehigh's at-large chances IMO.

Lehigh's best wins would also be a mediocre Holy Cross team and...?

PL is a sure-thing one bid league.

Preferred Walk-On
November 4th, 2024, 05:52 PM
Bump.

dbackjon
November 4th, 2024, 06:22 PM
Great analysis - really enjoy reading these.

These Bubble Teams are going to be good to track

Last 4 in: Chattanooga (8-4), ETSU (8-4), Illinois St (8-4), NAU (8-4)
First 4 out: SFA (8-4), William & Mary (8-4), ACU (7-5), WCU (7-5)

wcugrad95
November 4th, 2024, 09:33 PM
WCU's playoffs started after they had their 4th loss to Mercer 2 weeks ago. The Cats and the ETSU Bucs have yet another defacto play-in game this weekend. Still a couple of games to go after, but the loser of the ETSU/WCU game will be looking at a max of 7 wins. ETSU will have only 6 DI ones if they lose but then win their last 2. WCU will have an absolute ugly loss where they literally didn't show up early against Campbell. But their other losses were against FBS NC State and top-10'ish teams on the road in Mercer and Montana (both games WCU held 17-point leads in). I don't see either team getting in with 7. But I see the winner getting to 8 and being in - just hoping the Proessor is wrong on which SOCON team that is :-)

ngineer
November 4th, 2024, 09:45 PM
If Buckell wins out to capture the PL autobid while Lehigh finishes 8-3 and PL co-champs I think the Mountain Hawks would get legitimate consideration given how they would have closed the year combined with their 8 D1 wins and no bad losses per se (Army, Yale, Bucknell). We're a long way from that happening though....

Hell, I am just thrilled we are in the conversation about winning the PL title. I like our chances of winning the final three games. Certainly, Holy Cross will be favored this coming Saturday, but with the way the youngsters have been playing in Brown & White, I will not be surprised if they upset the Crusaders. IF, and it is a big "if" that occurs, they would be favored to win versus Colgate and Laughyette at home. Yes, Bucky is in if they run the table, but I just don't see it happening. They didn't beat us. We beat us; and, I think that was a definitive moment for this Lehigh team. If Lehigh's would win out with impressive margins, then there could be chance of getting into the tournament if Bucky wins out.

Professor Chaos
November 4th, 2024, 09:56 PM
WCU's playoffs started after they had their 4th loss to Mercer 2 weeks ago. The Cats and the ETSU Bucs have yet another defacto play-in game this weekend. Still a couple of games to go after, but the loser of the ETSU/WCU game will be looking at a max of 7 wins. ETSU will have only 6 DI ones if they lose but then win their last 2. WCU will have an absolute ugly loss where they literally didn't show up early against Campbell. But their other losses were against FBS NC State and top-10'ish teams on the road in Mercer and Montana (both games WCU held 17-point leads in). I don't see either team getting in with 7. But I see the winner getting to 8 and being in - just hoping the Proessor is wrong on which SOCON team that is :-)
I'll happily pass any blame for the projected ETSU win over WCU to Mr Massey. ;)

ElCid
November 4th, 2024, 09:58 PM
WCU's playoffs started after they had their 4th loss to Mercer 2 weeks ago. The Cats and the ETSU Bucs have yet another defacto play-in game this weekend. Still a couple of games to go after, but the loser of the ETSU/WCU game will be looking at a max of 7 wins. ETSU will have only 6 DI ones if they lose but then win their last 2. WCU will have an absolute ugly loss where they literally didn't show up early against Campbell. But their other losses were against FBS NC State and top-10'ish teams on the road in Mercer and Montana (both games WCU held 17-point leads in). I don't see either team getting in with 7. But I see the winner getting to 8 and being in - just hoping the Proessor is wrong on which SOCON team that is :-)

I get the point of view of having a 17 point lead at one point. HOWEVER, that can be viewed as just as much a negative as a positive. Blowing a 17 point lead is not good. Sure it happens, but it points to simultaneous failures on both the O and D. Sure there are circumstances, but in general, it ain't necessarily great. WCU has its destiny in its hands though. Win out and they should be in. Winning the final 7 of 8 games is a big plus.

wcugrad95
November 4th, 2024, 10:35 PM
Agree on it not being great to lose leads. But playing both of those top-10’ish teams on the road and being within a score late also should carry some water on if Western is playoff-worthy. Both Mercer and Montana will be in the field and Western has proven they can compete with that level of competition. Just like ETSU showed in a gut-wrenching loss to the near unanimous #1 NDSU that they have a very good team and can play with anybody.

All that being said I fully agree either the Cats or the Bucs have to get to 8 wins - 7 will not cut it in a 12-game schedule.

crusader11
November 7th, 2024, 03:51 PM
Professor,

Do you think Maine and Monmouth are for sure out? If either runs the table, they'll be 7-5 with resumes that would -- at the very least -- warrant consideration.

Outsider1
November 7th, 2024, 04:29 PM
The UAC still looks to get 2 in, currently Tarleton with the Auto and ACU with the possible at-large (last 4). Again, the game on Nov. 16th will be huge.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2024-playoff-predictions-4-bzbz/

MSUBobcat
November 7th, 2024, 04:57 PM
The UAC still looks to get 2 in, currently Tarleton with the Auto and ACU with the possible at-large (last 4). Again, the game on Nov. 16th will be huge.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2024-playoff-predictions-4-bzbz/

4 Big Sky teams in the top 8 seems pretty hard to fathom, especially when it implies Davis takes L's in 2 of their last 3 games.

Professor Chaos
November 7th, 2024, 11:13 PM
Professor,

Do you think Maine and Monmouth are for sure out? If either runs the table, they'll be 7-5 with resumes that would -- at the very least -- warrant consideration.
I think they'd need a load of help so pretty unlikely. Despite Monmouth's head-to-head win I'd like Maine's chances better just since Monmouth has 3 pretty ugly losses against EWU, Lafayette, and Towson. Maine's win over Nova might be better than Monmouth's win over FIU as well. I just don't think either will have wins good enough to discount their extra loss(es) when comparing them to bubble teams with fewer losses.

That's all my guess though which is just as good/bad as anyone else's.

MUHAWKS
November 7th, 2024, 11:21 PM
Professor,

Do you think Maine and Monmouth are for sure out? If either runs the table, they'll be 7-5 with resumes that would -- at the very least -- warrant consideration.

While I am not the Professor, I can tell you if we managed to win our last 3 (at UNH, Nova and at Stony Brook) it would be nothing short of miraculous. I Love our guys and never give up but this team is nothing close to what it was when we were playing well, and even then we fell short a couple games in when we could have won. The URI game last week was the season. Despite what many think, these are young kids and if you are not already in an established winning program, when the same thing happens year after year, the mental part takes hold, self belief goes down and stuff just falls apart. Had we held on to win that tight URI game it would have re changed momentum and psychology back to our favor but that might have been the nail in the coffin not just from a playoff standpoint but a mental standpoint. I do not think they will just lay down and quit but it is something very hard to explain. Not to mention we went from a healthy team to a very banged up team very quickly. We are without 3 starters on D and that was before URI where several went down (not sure of status) and now down 2 starting OL. A few other guys are playing at not 100% and when you add it all up it is not a recipe for success after such devastating losses. I cannot think of many east Coast teams that have lost so many close games over the years. We just are not there.

The optimist view- IF and this is a big IF, we can beat UNH it may be just enough to get these guys up for Senior day against a Nova team that seems vulnerable. So who knows- and that would set up a last week clash with Stony Brook. In this miracle le like scenario of winning out The committee may look favorably upon the "strong finish" which would include 2 wins against ranked teams, and road win against UNH. It would make us 7-5 with 2 ranked wins, an FBS win and 3 very close losses to ranked teams (I am including Delaware in that even tho in theory they are not ranked and although Lafayette faded they were ranked at the time). It would also include very good margin of victory results against Maine, Fordham and Bryant compared to others. I would think it would put us on the bubble but the way we are playing and our health makes this scenario VERY unlikely. I remain hopeful b/c why not? But we are not playing well and teams have adjusted to our Offense and our D is still not good.

MUHAWKS
November 7th, 2024, 11:27 PM
I think they'd need a load of help so pretty unlikely. Despite Monmouth's head-to-head win I'd like Maine's chances better just since Monmouth has 3 pretty ugly losses against EWU, Lafayette, and Towson. Maine's win over Nova might be better than Monmouth's win over FIU as well. I just don't think either will have wins good enough to discount their extra loss(es) when comparing them to bubble teams with fewer losses.

That's all my guess though which is just as good/bad as anyone else's.


In this scenario though, Professor we would also have a win against Villanova AND Stony brook. When you combine that with our head to head win against Maine and it was a blowout, plus the FBS win and I do not think it would even be close that we would get the nod over Maine. We would have to. Maine would have 1 ranked win, we would have 2. We would also have an FBS win and a head to head win. I agree with you though that the "7-5" part would be too much to overcome though based on some of the better teams in country who may have similar records. I also do not think our loss to Towson was "ugly" and like it or not Lafayette was ranked and playing better football when we lost. Yes, they do not look great in hindsight, but Towson has been very competitive and beat W&M- EWU being week 1 I think would be overlooked a bit more. You also have to factor in we beat Maine by 30 points, it was not like it was close. But probably a waste of time b/c if we win all 3 than I would be shcoked.

Professor Chaos
November 8th, 2024, 08:29 AM
In this scenario though, Professor we would also have a win against Villanova AND Stony brook. When you combine that with our head to head win against Maine and it was a blowout, plus the FBS win and I do not think it would even be close that we would get the nod over Maine. We would have to. Maine would have 1 ranked win, we would have 2. We would also have an FBS win and a head to head win. I agree with you though that the "7-5" part would be too much to overcome though based on some of the better teams in country who may have similar records. I also do not think our loss to Towson was "ugly" and like it or not Lafayette was ranked and playing better football when we lost. Yes, they do not look great in hindsight, but Towson has been very competitive and beat W&M- EWU being week 1 I think would be overlooked a bit more. You also have to factor in we beat Maine by 30 points, it was not like it was close. But probably a waste of time b/c if we win all 3 than I would be shcoked.
Good call, I was looking at the wrong remaining schedule for Monmouth. They'd have wins over Nova, Stony Brook, and UNH if they win out. Still think they're a long shot at 7-5 but they don't need as much help as I had previously thought. They'll still be weighed down by those bad losses.

crusader11
November 8th, 2024, 08:39 AM
Good call, I was looking at the wrong remaining schedule for Monmouth. They'd have wins over Nova, Stony Brook, and UNH if they win out. Still think they're a long shot at 7-5 but they don't need as much help as I had previously thought. They'll still be weighed down by those bad losses.

Richmond was able to get in last year despite losses to Morgan State and Hampton. Still can't get over that.

Professor Chaos
November 8th, 2024, 09:05 AM
Richmond was able to get in last year despite losses to Morgan State and Hampton. Still can't get over that.
True but they were 8-3 and tied for the CAA title - pretty sure that'll get you in any year unless the CAA really takes a downward turn.

I think the bubble might be a little tighter this year than it was last year - still a lot to play out in the last 3 weeks and the dynamic for a 12 game regular season is different than for a typical 11 game regular season but I'm thinking they'll be enough 8 win teams that it'll be pretty tough for a 7 win team (unless it's a something like a 7-4 South Dakota who had a game cancelled) to make it in. If a 7-5 team would make it in I'd put UND (since they'd have to get a couple very impressive wins to get there) and Southeastern Louisiana (played a brutal non-conference schedule and would've only lost to UIW in conference in that scenario) at the front of the line.

MSUBobcat
November 8th, 2024, 10:14 AM
In this scenario though, Professor we would also have a win against Villanova AND Stony brook. When you combine that with our head to head win against Maine and it was a blowout, plus the FBS win and I do not think it would even be close that we would get the nod over Maine. We would have to. Maine would have 1 ranked win, we would have 2. We would also have an FBS win and a head to head win. I agree with you though that the "7-5" part would be too much to overcome though based on some of the better teams in country who may have similar records. I also do not think our loss to Towson was "ugly" and like it or not Lafayette was ranked and playing better football when we lost. Yes, they do not look great in hindsight, but Towson has been very competitive and beat W&M- EWU being week 1 I think would be overlooked a bit more. You also have to factor in we beat Maine by 30 points, it was not like it was close. But probably a waste of time b/c if we win all 3 than I would be shcoked.

I really despise counting "then-ranked" wins, especially in week 2. In the case of Lafayette, what looked like a close loss to a ranked team ended up being a loss to a sub-.500, "tied for last in a down Patriot League" team. Counting early then-ranked wins is about the only reason I could get on board with RoT's philosophy of not ranking teams until a month or more into the season. Wins against week 12 playoff contenders is what matters when they are in the smoke-filled room the night before Selection Sunday.

MUHAWKS
November 8th, 2024, 01:54 PM
I really despise counting "then-ranked" wins, especially in week 2. In the case of Lafayette, what looked like a close loss to a ranked team ended up being a loss to a sub-.500, "tied for last in a down Patriot League" team. Counting early then-ranked wins is about the only reason I could get on board with RoT's philosophy of not ranking teams until a month or more into the season. Wins against week 12 playoff contenders is what matters when they are in the smoke-filled room the night before Selection Sunday.

Cannot say I disagree- but have to talk my book, so to speak, LOL-- with that said, I feel like the same does NOT happen in reverse- last year when we beat Towson in week 2 it meant nothing, then just 4-5 weeks later I was told how dangerous Towson was and they are a "different" team now.. Take my word for it, we did not lose to a bad Lafayette team THAT DAY, but I get it and at the end of the day agree with you mostly.. Sort of like How did Stony brook need OT to beat Bryant by 1 point? At the end of the day, people will just see win. Stuff happens on any given days. No perfect science here as we all know..

MSUBobcat
November 8th, 2024, 02:45 PM
Cannot say I disagree- but have to talk my book, so to speak, LOL-- with that said, I feel like the same does NOT happen in reverse- last year when we beat Towson in week 2 it meant nothing, then just 4-5 weeks later I was told how dangerous Towson was and they are a "different" team now.. Take my word for it, we did not lose to a bad Lafayette team THAT DAY, but I get it and at the end of the day agree with you mostly.. Sort of like How did Stony brook need OT to beat Bryant by 1 point? At the end of the day, people will just see win. Stuff happens on any given days. No perfect science here as we all know..

Sorry, but you DID lose to a bad, or at least mediocre, Lafayette team that day. Whether they played above their normal level or Monmouth played below theirs, the fact is, with the entire season results in view... Lafayette was what they are. (I kinda think MU hadn't gelled yet, given the pretty big loss to a meh EWU team the week before, but who knows).

I agree that stuff happens AGS, and I've been having a discussion on the topic with PWO about how much to punish a team that doesn't win by as much as you think they should. That is, of course, different than losing. And yes, winning by less than you should against a bad opponent should be punished in evaluating teams.

At the end of the day, a team's record against opponents that we thought were going to be good, but ain't, shouldn't matter. If it does, then why not give everyone credit for how they did against the preseason ranked teams. MSU plays a disastrous Sac State that was #11 in the preseason poll tomorrow. If we lose, do we get to say we did not lose to a bad Suck State team THAT DAY? No.

https://i.postimg.cc/wvhNz95Z/dennis-green-theyare-whoe-we-thought-they-were.gif

MUHAWKS
November 8th, 2024, 05:27 PM
Sorry, but you DID lose to a bad, or at least mediocre, Lafayette team that day. Whether they played above their normal level or Monmouth played below theirs, the fact is, with the entire season results in view... Lafayette was what they are. (I kinda think MU hadn't gelled yet, given the pretty big loss to a meh EWU team the week before, but who knows).

I agree that stuff happens AGS, and I've been having a discussion on the topic with PWO about how much to punish a team that doesn't win by as much as you think they should. That is, of course, different than losing. And yes, winning by less than you should against a bad opponent should be punished in evaluating teams.

At the end of the day, a team's record against opponents that we thought were going to be good, but ain't, shouldn't matter. If it does, then why not give everyone credit for how they did against the preseason ranked teams. MSU plays a disastrous Sac State that was #11 in the preseason poll tomorrow. If we lose, do we get to say we did not lose to a bad Suck State team THAT DAY? No.

https://i.postimg.cc/wvhNz95Z/dennis-green-theyare-whoe-we-thought-they-were.gif

You are probably closer to right than me on Lafayette but I still think a team can be "good" for a few weeks and then not good or vice versa. Look at the 2007 NY Giants. They started 0-2 and then clicked and won some close games. Then they were 1-2 coming of the bye including a home blowout loss to The Vikings where they looked inept. then they win The Super Bowl.

But who cares- the real difference here is perspective. You are a MSU Big Sky guy- I actually think average or "disastrous " MVC/Big Sky types can beat good CAA teams much of the time. Its a different level- so I sit here and look at Stony Brook beating Bryant and Fordham by 1 and 6 points and see us winning against those 2 by a combined 118-38 and just get frustrated b/c we lose so many close games and it pisses me off b/c at least 1 if not 2 average CAA teams who are considered "good" who would prob get beat by middle of the road 4-5 win MVC and Big Sky will get in while we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot. It is what leads me to believe that comparable games and margin of victory and "how" you lose matter IF it comes down to it in the end which it will not for us, but I guess what I am saying is - Ok we lost to Lafayette (very fluke loss btw but a loss) and they end up stinking. Yet we beat teams BADLY that ranked Stony Brook had real problems beating. If we are going to say a "bad" loss matters which it should, then certainly we have to say a "close" win over lesser or Blowout win over lesser should also matter. This only ever really matters come selection Sunday but in my view "how" you win or lose absolutely matters- no matter who it is against. If it is a one off, maybe it can be looked past but if there is consistency to it, it should matter.