Ivy League to consider FB playoffs

[Laker]

I'll believe it when I see it, but at least they are talking about it.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/11/1/ivy-league-considers-football-postseason/

[caribbeanhen]

if it were to happen would be a great move for FCS football

"Willcox noted that the top two Ivy League teams are usually ranked in the top 25 nationally. In the final FCS poll of 2023, Harvard received six top-25 votes. Undefeated Dartmouth is currently ranked the 22nd best FCS team nationally.
“This league can play at a really high level,” Willcox said. “I think it’s something that can be shown on a national level.”

[JacksFan40]

If the players and coaches want it I don’t see why the presidents should be opposed. It’s up to the players to balance their academic work with athletics and I would hope they are pretty good at that since they’re at an Ivy League school. Would also be exciting to see the Ivies finally play against the big boys from the MVFC and Big Sky. Don’t think it’ll happen but here’s hoping.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The tradition of The Game — the much-anticipated faceoff between Harvard and Yale — could also be affected as the rivalry matchup always comes as the season’s last game.

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

[ST_Lawson]

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

I mean...couldn't the league just schedule their last regular season weekend of the year as essentially "rivalry weekend" and have Harvard vs Yale always happen that weekend?

[caribbeanhen]

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

maybe we should organize a protest against these nutty Ivy Presidents that are afraid they might become known as "football schools"

[bulldog10jw]

"Consider" being the most important word.

[CHIP72]

Here’s hoping the Ivy League (IMO) gets their head out of their asses and starts participating in the DI-AA/FCS playoffs. I mean, they participate in other NCAA postseason tournaments, so don’t hide behind the official “academics” argument, especially when football teams 1) play once per week and 2) almost always on (for all/almost all students) a non-class day.

I’m not optimistic this will actually happen, but the fact they are discussing the possibility is a positive. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.


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[Franks Tanks]

If the players and coaches want it I don’t see why the presidents should be opposed. It’s up to the players to balance their academic work with athletics and I would hope they are pretty good at that since they’re at an Ivy League school. Would also be exciting to see the Ivies finally play against the big boys from the MVFC and Big Sky. Don’t think it’ll happen but here’s hoping.

That’s just a cop out. As if one or two teams playing an extra week or two of football has any bearing on the academic success of those players.

Like, is Yale’s starting left tackle not getting into med school because he was burdened with playing against UNH in round one of the FCS playoffs?

[dbackjon]

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

So drag the other 6 down with them. Selfish.

[Preferred Walk-On]

I mean...couldn't the league just schedule their last regular season weekend of the year as essentially "rivalry weekend" and have Harvard vs Yale always happen that weekend?

Just start three weeks earlier…like the rest of the FCS.


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[DFW HOYA]

The headline is misleading. A group of students are interested, but the presidents aren't.

Realistically, if Army and Navy can play and then go to a bowl afterward, 'The Game" won't go into the dust. But Ivy presidents aren't very realistic.

[caribbeanhen]

Just start three weeks earlier…like the rest of the FCS.


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first 3 games

SeMo
UT Martin
Idaho

[MSUBobcat]

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

Uhhhh, The Game is already scheduled for the last week of the regular season and would be unaffected. It was last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, and........ That's as big a BS cop out as the "academics" excuse when they participate in playoffs in (every?) other sports.

[Sitting Bull]

maybe we should organize a protest against these nutty Ivy Presidents that are afraid they might become known as "football schools"

Didn’t a number of them get recently fired?

[nickp]

It would be great to finally see Princeton and Yale in the FCS playoffs!

[Wolffan]

I mean...couldn't the league just schedule their last regular season weekend of the year as essentially "rivalry weekend" and have Harvard vs Yale always happen that weekend?

Of course. Unless there is some sort of psychological need for H-Y to be the absolute last game of the season for each team. Thus precluding a subsequent playoff game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One of the things that makes this more interesting is the growing divide between Power 4 NIL schools and the rest of Division I. If the Ivy Presidents no longer think they want to compete with a professional league in all sports, perhaps they will embrace FCS, which might be closer to their vision of athletics. Before, there was a desire to compete in all sports with the Big 10, etc. Maybe not so much now.

[Wolffan]

It would be great to finally see Princeton and Yale in the FCS playoffs! Not sure how frequently either would make the playoffs. I guess an auto-bid and once in a while (like the PL) an at-large. Right now Dartmouth is at 6-0, ranked 22 and the only IL team in the top 25.

[caribbeanhen]

Not sure how frequently either would make the playoffs. I guess an auto-bid and once in a while (like the PL) an at-large. Right now Dartmouth is at 6-0, ranked 22 and the only IL team in the top 25.

half the Ivies should be in the playoffs xdrunkyx

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Nothing is more insufferable than the Ivy's hypocrisy in participating in the billion dollar March Madness hoopla but not playing in the FCS playoffs.

[Preferred Walk-On]

first 3 games

SeMo
UT Martin
Idaho
I see what you are doing there. You had best select which Ivies should play this schedule, or you might have to go back to the computer ratings. Oh wait, I missed your next post...


half the Ivies should be in the playoffs xdrunkyx
You did not explicitly state which playoffs. I suspect they would do OK in the DII playoffs...maybe even win a game or two. :D
But seriously, there is definitely a universe (and I might even state it is this one), where the Ivy is more than just a one-bid league. That said, let's get a few more data points (i.e, start season in week 1 and play same number of games as everyone else), and then use those matchups against UT-Martin, SEMO, and Idaho to better make this determination. Whaddya say?

[Preferred Walk-On]

That’s just a cop out. As if one or two teams playing an extra week or two of football has any bearing on the academic success of those players.

Like, is Yale’s starting left tackle not getting into med school because he was burdened with playing against UNH in round one of the FCS playoffs?
These are the (self-proclaimed?) best and brightest, and in life (maybe not theirs), circumstances often dictate the necessity for time management and problem solving? Since these are the best-of-the-best, shouldn't this skill set be a walk in the park for them? Shouldn't it be for their administrators? The problem is not one of "finals" or "academic success". While it is their (school adminstrator's) prerogative to not participate in the FCS tournament, it is unfortunate that they could (and even more disappointing that they do in other sports). Not mad, just disappointed.

[bonarae]

What do you think is the divide between the students and the presidents of the Ivy schools? Is it very great now? xchinscratchx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What do you think is the divide between the students and the presidents of the Ivy schools? Is it very great now? xchinscratchx

Truly hard to say. The Presidents I think want to placate the big money types and don't feel passionately about it one way or another. If the big donors wanted FCS playoffs, they'd have it yesterday.

[ElCid]

So let me get this straight. The Ivies might finally join the playoffs. So in a 12 game season they wouldn't have one game less than everyone, but two!? Anybody think this will cause issues during selection and seeding? People whine already if someone is light one game. If they join the fun, I could never see any at larges for this reason alone, just the champ. Food for thought.

[dbackjon]

half the Ivies should be in the playoffs xdrunkyx


And hosting games!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And hosting games!

If Princeton hosted a quarterfinal game it would revolutionize the playoffs.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Can anyone provide any insight into the ideological principles that prevent NESCAC institutions from playing OOC games? I've long tried to form relationships between the IL, PL and NESCAC so OOC scheduling, athletic assimilation, and other relevant philosophies that pertain to institutional positioning have long piqued my interest....

[Ivytalk]

If Princeton hosted a quarterfinal game it would revolutionize the playoffs.

Why? Because they have a nice stadium? Princeton students are apathetic about football. Harvard would make a better showing.

[caribbeanhen]

I see what you are doing there. You had best select which Ivies should play this schedule, or you might have to go back to the computer ratings. Oh wait, I missed your next post...


You did not explicitly state which playoffs. I suspect they would do OK in the DII playoffs...maybe even win a game or two. :D
But seriously, there is definitely a universe (and I might even state it is this one), where the Ivy is more than just a one-bid league. That said, let's get a few more data points (i.e, start season in week 1 and play same number of games as everyone else), and then use those matchups against UT-Martin, SEMO, and Idaho to better make this determination. Whaddya say?

Honestly, this is probably all just a big tease… the Harvard athletic Director has already approached the president who proceeded to laugh her out of the room….

hope I’m wrong because really all I want is to see is good football games and better first round playoff games

[NY Crusader 2010]

Can anyone provide any insight into the ideological principles that prevent NESCAC institutions from playing OOC games? I've long tried to form relationships between the IL, PL and NESCAC so OOC scheduling, athletic assimilation, and other relevant philosophies that pertain to institutional positioning have long piqued my interest....

The NESCAC did recently add a 9th game so I think it's a round robin conference schedule now. Used to be 8 conference games and that was the season, which started last week of September or 1st week of October. May be different today, but back when I was in college the whole concept of pre-season camp wasn't a thing in the NESCAC. Football players reported to campus the same time as regular students and practice started then, which was still 4 weeks from the opener.

Do NESCAC schools get ranked in the DIII rankings? Seems like that would be impossible with the completely insular schedule. Could be the worst football in the country or head and shoulders above the top of DIII and no one will ever know.

[s-k]

I may be the only person who thinks this way, but I actually like that the Ivy League does not participate in the playoff. The Ivy Title is the be all end all goal - which I think is fantastic. It's their own tournament. I also like that the SWAC and MEAC do their own thing. This is how it should be, leagues and schools can make their own choices rather than 'everyone is doing this so you too must do this'. I hope the Ivy League remains out of the playoff, I like the unique qualities of Ivy football. They aren't like everyone else and don't have to be.

[MSUBobcat]

I may be the only person who thinks this way, but I actually like that the Ivy League does not participate in the playoff. The Ivy Title is the be all end all goal - which I think is fantastic. It's their own tournament. I also like that the SWAC and MEAC do their own thing. This is how it should be, leagues and schools can make their own choices rather than 'everyone is doing this so you too must do this'. I hope the Ivy League remains out of the playoff, I like the unique qualities of Ivy football. They aren't like everyone else and don't have to be.

I don't care what schools/leagues decide for themselves. Have at it. But by not participating, I give exactly 0 $#its about Ivy football. They don't play my team, they almost never play our opponents, they rarely play our opponent's opponents. This year they got close, having 4 degrees of separation (Princeton played Mercer, who plays Chatt, who played Portland State, who MSU played).

Upon further review, 3 degrees (MSU played Maine, who played Colgate, who played Cornell). Cornell also beat Yale, so MSU is 61 points better than Yale. xcoffeex

[Wolffan]

I would imagine the IVY football players/coaches would like to participate in the playoffs (an auto-bid and occasional at large team depending on the year) while the (generally apathetic regarding football) student body writ large would be largely ambivalent and the presidents would look (probably unavailingly) for an up side. Don't see it happening any time soon.

[bonarae]

The NESCAC did recently add a 9th game so I think it's a round robin conference schedule now. Used to be 8 conference games and that was the season, which started last week of September or 1st week of October. May be different today, but back when I was in college the whole concept of pre-season camp wasn't a thing in the NESCAC. Football players reported to campus the same time as regular students and practice started then, which was still 4 weeks from the opener.

Do NESCAC schools get ranked in the DIII rankings? Seems like that would be impossible with the completely insular schedule. Could be the worst football in the country or head and shoulders above the top of DIII and no one will ever know.

Hmm… NESCAC gets zero votes anywhere in D-III football polls in recent memory. UChicago has, at least, had been ranked but only once while they were in the SAA, a long time ago in football terms.

[bonarae]

I don't care what schools/leagues decide for themselves. Have at it. But by not participating, I give exactly 0 $#its about Ivy football. They don't play my team, they almost never play our opponents, they rarely play our opponent's opponents. This year they got close, having 4 degrees of separation (Princeton played Mercer, who plays Chatt, who played Portland State, who MSU played).

Upon further review, 3 degrees (MSU played Maine, who played Colgate, who played Cornell). Cornell also beat Yale, so MSU is 61 points better than Yale. xcoffeex

I agree, playoff participation = incentive for more diverse regular season schedules, or you say otherwise?

[Franks Tanks]

These are the (self-proclaimed?) best and brightest, and in life (maybe not theirs), circumstances often dictate the necessity for time management and problem solving? Since these are the best-of-the-best, shouldn't this skill set be a walk in the park for them? Shouldn't it be for their administrators? The problem is not one of "finals" or "academic success". While it is their (school adminstrator's) prerogative to not participate in the FCS tournament, it is unfortunate that they could (and even more disappointing that they do in other sports). Not mad, just disappointed.

Absolutely. They need to find another excuse for their refusal to participate as nobody is buying that one.

[MSUBobcat]

I agree, playoff participation = incentive for more diverse regular season schedules, or you say otherwise?

I think there's a definite incentive for a diverse scheduling if you are a playoff participant. However, my get-off-my-lawn point was more about the fact that their decision to not participate, combined with their mostly insular scheduling, means the closest my school would come to connecting with the Ivies would amount to them being my neighbor's brother's cousin's best friend. It's not even on my radar and if I was a voter, I would likely never vote for them because I see the poll as intending to predict the playoff field and they choose to not be included. Maybe a harsh take, and even an unpopular one, but if they want to not be a full participant in the FCS, I'll grant them their wish and not consider them as one either.

[MSUBobcat]

Absolutely. They need to find another excuse for their refusal to participate as nobody is buying that one.

Especially when they appear to participate in most (or is it all?) other sports' playoffs. I went thru the schedule of each sport (men's and women's) that Harvard sponsors. Golf... no idea what kind of season that has. Only 4 events shown for both men and women. Men's and Women's lacrosse did not indicate participation in the NCAA tourney, but that could be because that season is over/hasn't been posted for Spring 2025. Rowing... not sure about what kind of season that has either. Even their squash (whatever that is) teams participate in the CSA National Championships. Their men's hockey team plays on the same weekend as both the 1st and 2nd round of the FCS, but admittedly not after Dec 7th when finals would be in full swing. It appears that only the "meathead" football players are unable to juggle their athletic requirements with their academic requirements.

[ElCid]

Especially when they appear to participate in most (or is it all?) other sports' playoffs. I went thru the schedule of each sport (men's and women's) that Harvard sponsors. Golf... no idea what kind of season that has. Only 4 events shown for both men and women. Men's and Women's lacrosse did not indicate participation in the NCAA tourney, but that could be because that season is over/hasn't been posted for Spring 2025. Rowing... not sure about what kind of season that has either. Even their squash (whatever that is) teams participate in the CSA National Championships. Their men's hockey team plays on the same weekend as both the 1st and 2nd round of the FCS, but admittedly not after Dec 7th when finals would be in full swing. It appears that only the "meathead" football players are unable to juggle their athletic requirements with their academic requirements.

It really is a PR issue. They can play some season games with the riffraff, but to take part in the tournament would be signalling to the world that they are somehow at the same level as ABC State U. But I think they are trying to act as if they are above it, and still in the big time of college football. Something that past for them 75+ years ago. The academic excuse is simply convenient. That said, and it wasn't a mean spirited criticism, they are probably closer to the better ideals of college athletics than most Div I programs. So I don't think the path they are following is necessarily a bad one, for them.

[MSUBobcat]

It really is a PR issue. They can play some season games with the riffraff, but to take part in the tournament would be signalling to the world that they are somehow at the same level as ABC State U. But I think they are trying to act as if they are above it, and still in the big time of college football. Something that past for them 75+ years ago. The academic excuse is simply convenient. That said, and it wasn't a mean spirited criticism, they are probably closer to the better ideals of college athletics than most Div I programs. So I don't think the path they are following is necessarily a bad one, for them.

Agree 100% on that in today's climate.

The part about acting as if they are still in the big time is a weird juxtaposition when they have no problem playing in playoffs against the likes of Lake Superior State, Bemidji State, and other DII programs or even UND in hockey. But of course that is explained away by the fact that it is the "top" level of college hockey, so it's okay.

[ElCid]

Agree 100% on that in today's climate.

The part about acting as if they are still in the big time is a weird juxtaposition when they have no problem playing in playoffs against the likes of Lake Superior State, Bemidji State, and other DII programs or even UND in hockey. But of course that is explained away by the fact that it is the "top" level of college hockey, so it's okay.

Well, not wanting to burst anyone's bubble, but 99% of the population doesn't know that some colleges play hockey. A huge chunk know about football and image is important. Hockey is a niche sport at best on par with swimming.

[MSUBobcat]

Well, not wanting to burst anyone's bubble, but 99% of the population doesn't know that some colleges play hockey. A huge chunk know about football and image is important. Hockey is a niche sport at best on par with swimming.

Well that's just silly. When was the last time the swimming championship was on TV? What is the attendance? I know you're being hyperbolic, but holy..... tone it down a touch. I would wager that hockey is the average Ivy fan's 5th most followed sport behind bouncy ball (M&W), football, perhaps lacrosse and it might be higher than that, since at least with hockey they have an actual chance to win a title. Ironic that a fan of FCS is talking about another sport being a niche sport. xrotatehx

[ElCid]

Well that's just silly. When was the last time the swimming championship was on TV? What is the attendance? I know you're being hyperbolic, but holy..... tone it down a touch. I would wager that hockey is the average Ivy fan's 5th most followed sport behind bouncy ball (M&W), football, perhaps lacrosse and it might be higher than that, since at least with hockey they have an actual chance to win a title. Ironic that a fan of FCS is talking about another sport being a niche sport. xrotatehx

Yeah, but I'm talking most people in the country, not alumni fans. Most people in states not in NE or upper Midwest haven't a clue. Go ahead and ask Jimmy JoBob in Kentucky who he thinks will win the Ivy Hockey title. Yeah, I was being a bit over the top, but compared to Football or BB, the fan base, except for the odd alum or hockey fanatic is miniscule when looking at the entire nation.

My point being in regard to Ivies, is that since it isn't a mainstream national sport, the risk of debasing the Ivy brand is minimal in regard to hockey. I didn't even know Harvard had a team until you mentioned it. I wouldn't have bet money either way. And I grew up in the NE.

[MSUBobcat]

Yeah, but I'm talking most people in the country, not alumni fans. Most people in states not in NE or upper Midwest haven't a clue. Go ahead and ask Jimmy JoBob in Kentucky who he thinks will win the Ivy Hockey title. Yeah, I was being a bit over the top, but compared to Football or BB, the fan base, except for the odd alum or hockey fanatic is miniscule when looking at the entire nation.

My point being in regard to Ivies, is that since it isn't a mainstream national sport, the risk of debasing the Ivy brand is minimal in regard to hockey. I didn't even know Harvard had a team until you mentioned it. I wouldn't have bet money either way. And I grew up in the NE.

xlolx Ask Jimmy JoBob from Kentucky who is going to win the FCS championship. Hell, ask him if he can name an FCS team in his own state (possibly, since they play . The Frozen Four for hockey has pretty similar ESPN viewership numbers as the FCS championship and fills an NHL arena for 2 days in April and does so with only 64 teams, many of which are D-2 and small private schools. And, as I said, they actually have a chance to win a real championship (and they're in a hockey hotbed, possibly more than college FB these days), so I think many are more attune to Ivy hockey (only 4 play) than you might think.

As far as PR issue... I hardly think the average potential student of these prestigious universities are giving many #hits about the athletics when decided to attend (as a student).

[ElCid]

xlolx Ask Jimmy JoBob from Kentucky who is going to win the FCS championship. Hell, ask him if he can name an FCS team in his own state (possibly, since they play . The Frozen Four for hockey has pretty similar ESPN viewership numbers as the FCS championship and fills an NHL arena for 2 days in April and does so with only 64 teams, many of which are D-2 and small private schools. And, as I said, they actually have a chance to win a real championship (and they're in a hockey hotbed, possibly more than college FB these days), so I think many are more attune to Ivy hockey (only 4 play) than you might think.

As far as PR issue... I hardly think the average potential student of these prestigious universities are giving many #hits about the athletics when decided to attend (as a student).

You are looking at it through hockey loving lenses. You live in hockey country probably. I am looking at through hockey indifferent glasses. It's soccer on ice. Sorry, couldn't resist. If calling soccer, Hockey on grass is more palatable I'll change it. Sorry, I can't stop myself.

And while our friend Jimmy JoBob may not know much about FCS football, I would bet he has heard of Ivy football, like he knows many old teams who are still FCS. But he might not know the Ivies are FCS like I think they, the Ivies, want it. He may not know the current structure or newer FCS teams, but I bet he has heard of older teams like Colgate, Holy Cross, YSU, W&M, most of the individual Ivies, maybe a couple SOCON schools, certainly many OVC teams. He probably has heard of NDSU by now. Name recognition and association is the PR I'm talking about, not necessarily sending off your resume immediately.

I'm certainly not trying to belittle Hockey, but trying put it in the perspective as compared to the bigger sports. At least from a different perspective and certainly from a regional one. But I'll stop.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah, but I'm talking most people in the country, not alumni fans. Most people in states not in NE or upper Midwest haven't a clue. Go ahead and ask Jimmy JoBob in Kentucky who he thinks will win the Ivy Hockey title. Yeah, I was being a bit over the top, but compared to Football or BB, the fan base, except for the odd alum or hockey fanatic is miniscule when looking at the entire nation.

My point being in regard to Ivies, is that since it isn't a mainstream national sport, the risk of debasing the Ivy brand is minimal in regard to hockey. I didn't even know Harvard had a team until you mentioned it. I wouldn't have bet money either way. And I grew up in the NE.

To be abundantly clear, north of New York City college hockey is extremely popular in the Northeast (look up The Beanpot Trophy) and in Chicago and the upper Midwest. I'd say it lags slightly behind FCS football and women's basketball in the "college sports that should have their own TV contract and not be lumped together" group.

Having said that, I agree that it isn't a mainstream sport, but it is a huge part of the fabric of New England and the frosty states.

[DFW HOYA]

NCAA hockey is largely north of Interstate 80.

[NY Crusader 2010]

It really is a PR issue. They can play some season games with the riffraff, but to take part in the tournament would be signalling to the world that they are somehow at the same level as ABC State U. But I think they are trying to act as if they are above it, and still in the big time of college football. Something that past for them 75+ years ago. The academic excuse is simply convenient. That said, and it wasn't a mean spirited criticism, they are probably closer to the better ideals of college athletics than most Div I programs. So I don't think the path they are following is necessarily a bad one, for them.

I'm not sure this is it. Even when the Ivy League was still considered major college football, they still had league a postseason ban. This dates back to 1945. The last Ivy appearance in the AP Top 25 was Dartmouth in 1970. Penn State and Joe Paterno were trying to set up a bowl matchup against Dartmouth but the ban on postseason play was upheld and it never happened. The Ivy League was dropped from I-A to I-AA in 1983.

I do agree that the academic excuse is hypocritical. Do the women's volleyball teams not have to take finals? I think it's more about continuing the quaint roundness of the traditional 10-game season that has been in place for over half a century, probably longer. Plus, with all the studies regarding concussions and CTE, the Ivy League could go to that as their primary reason for not adding more opportunities for players to suffer debilitating injuries.

[The Yo Show]

I really really hope they do decide to participate in the playoffs. Would be interesting!

[FUBeAR]

I really really hope they do decide to participate in the playoffs. Would be interesting!
Yep - then the NCAA FCS Powers-that-be need to sit down with the peeps from the MEAC & the SWAC and develop a creative solution to get their Champions into the FCS Playoffs AND not give up the Celebration Bowl / Championship Games / Traditional Year-End “Bowls.”

Too much cash involved with those for them to even think about NOT doing them. No School / AD / Football Program would, BUT … ALL FCS Teams would stand to benefit by having those Conferences involved in the Playoffs…even if VERY creative ways to do that have to be hammered out AND even if those creative solutions ‘violate’ the ‘purity,’ ‘sanctity,’ and ‘fairness’ [FUBeAR making a violent choking sound] of the current FCS Playoff format/system.

[POD Knows]

Yep - then the NCAA FCS Powers-that-be need to sit down with the peeps from the MEAC & the SWAC and develop a creative solution to get their Champions into the FCS Playoffs AND not give up the Celebration Bowl / Championship Games / Traditional Year-End “Bowls.”

Too much cash involved with those for them to even think about NOT doing them. No School / AD / Football Program would, BUT … ALL FCS Teams would stand to benefit by having those Conferences involved in the Playoffs…even if VERY creative ways to do that have to be hammered out AND even if those creative solutions ‘violate’ the ‘purity,’ ‘sanctity,’ and ‘fairness’ [FUBeAR making a violent choking sound] of the current FCS Playoff format/system.
Disagree on the HBCU's and the playoffs, most of those teams would be one and done and why should the subdivision trip over themselves to accommodate the lower tier conferences. Do you want to push back the playoffs to mid December and finish at the end or middle of January? How would it work? The celebration bowl is in the middle of December. I guess how they could make it work is to give the conferences an auto bid, they would never be seeded and they could play over Thanksgiving weekend, get eliminated from the playoffs and go on their merry way.

[caribbeanhen]

Disagree on the HBCU's and the playoffs, most of those teams would be one and done and why should the subdivision trip over themselves to accommodate the lower tier conferences. Do you want to push back the playoffs to mid December and finish at the end or middle of January? How would it work? The celebration bowl is in the middle of December. I guess how they could make it work is to give the conferences an auto bid, they would never be seeded and they could play over Thanksgiving weekend, get eliminated from the playoffs and go on their merry way.

back in 1973 Delaware played Grambling in the Boardwalk Bowl played in Atlantic City, I learned recently that it was actually a Div 2 playoff game... it could be done... let's be honest and agree that the 70's had some serious creativity with sports and regionalization sucks balls

[FUBeAR]

1) Disagree on the HBCU's and the playoffs,

2) most of those teams would be one and done

and

3) why should the subdivision trip over themselves to accommodate the lower tier conferences.

4) Do you want to push back the playoffs to mid December and finish at the end or middle of January? How would it work? The celebration bowl is in the middle of December.

5) I guess how they could make it work is to give the conferences an auto bid, they would never be seeded and they could play over Thanksgiving weekend, get eliminated from the playoffs and go on their merry way.
1) FUBeAR respects your right to disagree with FUBeAR, as well as your right to be wrong.

2) The static view of the current likely competitiveness of the MEAC & SWAC Champions is completely irrelevant to the benefits that would almost certainly accrue to the Football Championship Subdivision and the Teams that are members of the Subdivision by finding a creative way to include the champions of those conferences within the framework of the FCS Playoffs.

3a) These schools, conferences, and HBCU’s / HBCU Football have national interest, national followings, and all the media that comes from those factors. With all of those things, and especially with media, money follows. This is PROVEN with the streams of revenue generated from the Celebration Bowl and the attendance at many/most SWAC / MEAC games, relative to the revenue generated by FCS games & Playoffs.

3b) Inclusivity is more than a “DEI thing.” It’s actually an admirable pursuit that is valued by many. The current lack of inclusivity - not having the SEC, SWAC, and the Ivies as FCS Playoff participants - may not be mostly or any ‘fault’ of the FCS powers-that-be and/or the other currently Playoff-participating FCS Members, but the undeniable fact that 26 Teams in 3 Conferences, equating to more than 20% of FCS Members choose to opt out of the Playoffs, regardless of the static current state of their competitiveness, is just not a good ‘look’ to media, potentially sponsoring corporations, and/or FCS-curious Football Fans (and those do exist). It is a torn ACL on the body of FCS Football.

4) As FUBeAR is not an NCAA FCS poohbah, an Ivy/MEAC/SWAC Administrator, University President, AD, or Head Football Coach, he is in no position to know what would induce these entities to participate in the Playoffs. That said, FUBeAR does know that FCS and other Member Schools are in no position to throw money at the problem. OTOH, a rising tide lifts all boats. Perhaps synergies are realized which do result in a bigger money pie. Really smart people can sit down together with a common goal and work out creative solutions to almost any problem. For goodness sake, we can put a man on Mars, surely we solve these College Sports issues. Maybe the Celebration Bowl becomes also a Playoff game and the winner gets a “pass” to the Quarters (or whatever). Maybe the Ivies are guaranteed a 1st round home game - FUBeAR don’t know, but he does have faith in smart people.

5) See, we already have the Great & Powerful POD working on it. Write that one on the whiteboard. There are no bad ideas here!

[POD Knows]

1) FUBeAR respects your right to disagree with FUBeAR, as well as your right to be wrong.

2) The static view of the current likely competitiveness of the MEAC & SWAC Champions is completely irrelevant to the benefits that would almost certainly accrue to the Football Championship Subdivision and the Teams that are members of the Subdivision by finding a creative way to include the champions of those conferences within the framework of the FCS Playoffs.

3a) These schools, conferences, and HBCU’s / HBCU Football have national interest, national followings, and all the media that comes from those factors. With all of those things, and especially with media, money follows. This is PROVEN with the streams of revenue generated from the Celebration Bowl and the attendance at many/most SWAC / MEAC games, relative to the revenue generated by FCS games & Playoffs.

3b) Inclusivity is more than a “DEI thing.” It’s actually an admirable pursuit that is valued by many. The current lack of inclusivity - not having the SEC, SWAC, and the Ivies as FCS Playoff participants - may not be mostly or any ‘fault’ of the FCS powers-that-be and/or the other currently Playoff-participating FCS Members, but the undeniable fact that 26 Teams in 3 Conferences, equating to more than 20% of FCS Members choose to opt out of the Playoffs, regardless of the static current state of their competitiveness, is just not a good ‘look’ to media, potentially sponsoring corporations, and/or FCS-curious Football Fans (and those do exist). It is a torn ACL on the body of FCS Football.

4) As FUBeAR is not an NCAA FCS poohbah, an Ivy/MEAC/SWAC Administrator, University President, AD, or Head Football Coach, he is in no position to know what would induce these entities to participate in the Playoffs. That said, FUBeAR does know that FCS and other Member Schools are in no position to throw money at the problem. OTOH, a rising tide lifts all boats. Perhaps synergies are realized which do result in a bigger money pie. Really smart people can sit down together with a common goal and work out creative solutions to almost any problem. For goodness sake, we can put a man on Mars, surely we solve these College Sports issues. Maybe the Celebration Bowl becomes also a Playoff game and the winner gets a “pass” to the Quarters (or whatever). Maybe the Ivies are guaranteed a 1st round home game - FUBeAR don’t know, but he does have faith in smart people.

5) See, we already have the Great & Powerful POD working on it. Write that one on the whiteboard. There are no bad ideas here!
I am unpaid labor so you get what you pay for. Not seeing the financial benefits at all and if they want in (they don’t), they can conform to the rest of the FCS, not the other way around.

[ElCid]

1) FUBeAR respects your right to disagree with FUBeAR, as well as your right to be wrong.

2) The static view of the current likely competitiveness of the MEAC & SWAC Champions is completely irrelevant to the benefits that would almost certainly accrue to the Football Championship Subdivision and the Teams that are members of the Subdivision by finding a creative way to include the champions of those conferences within the framework of the FCS Playoffs.

3a) These schools, conferences, and HBCU’s / HBCU Football have national interest, national followings, and all the media that comes from those factors. With all of those things, and especially with media, money follows. This is PROVEN with the streams of revenue generated from the Celebration Bowl and the attendance at many/most SWAC / MEAC games, relative to the revenue generated by FCS games & Playoffs.

3b) Inclusivity is more than a “DEI thing.” It’s actually an admirable pursuit that is valued by many. The current lack of inclusivity - not having the SEC, SWAC, and the Ivies as FCS Playoff participants - may not be mostly or any ‘fault’ of the FCS powers-that-be and/or the other currently Playoff-participating FCS Members, but the undeniable fact that 26 Teams in 3 Conferences, equating to more than 20% of FCS Members choose to opt out of the Playoffs, regardless of the static current state of their competitiveness, is just not a good ‘look’ to media, potentially sponsoring corporations, and/or FCS-curious Football Fans (and those do exist). It is a torn ACL on the body of FCS Football.

4) As FUBeAR is not an NCAA FCS poohbah, an Ivy/MEAC/SWAC Administrator, University President, AD, or Head Football Coach, he is in no position to know what would induce these entities to participate in the Playoffs. That said, FUBeAR does know that FCS and other Member Schools are in no position to throw money at the problem. OTOH, a rising tide lifts all boats. Perhaps synergies are realized which do result in a bigger money pie. Really smart people can sit down together with a common goal and work out creative solutions to almost any problem. For goodness sake, we can put a man on Mars, surely we solve these College Sports issues. Maybe the Celebration Bowl becomes also a Playoff game and the winner gets a “pass” to the Quarters (or whatever). Maybe the Ivies are guaranteed a 1st round home game - FUBeAR don’t know, but he does have faith in smart people.

5) See, we already have the Great & Powerful POD working on it. Write that one on the whiteboard. There are no bad ideas here!

Loud buzzer...survey says, aaah.

You don't change the rules by given free passes or possibly undeserved home field simply to get more participants. You require them to conform to the established rules or hit the road. At the most, which would be fair, the Celebration bowl is an established first round game. This may penalize a team if they warrant a top seed, but that hasn't happened historically, and would be the price to pay for maintaining the generous set opponent arraignment. The Ivies get zero consideration. "Money pie" consideration should be irrelevant. Money corrupts all.

[FUBeAR]

if they want in (they don’t), they can conform to the rest of the FCS, not the other way around.

Loud buzzer...survey says, aaah.

You don't change the rules by given free passes or possibly undeserved home field simply to get more participants. You require them to conform to the established rules or hit the road.Money is NEVER irrelevant in any decisions regarding college athletics….

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/RV-AK835_INNOVA_P_20130614181900.jpg
https://media.makeameme.org/created/what-you-feel-616636dc52.jpg

We’ve “always” done it this way! We must be right.

[MSUBobcat]

Yep - then the NCAA FCS Powers-that-be need to sit down with the peeps from the MEAC & the SWAC and develop a creative solution to get their Champions into the FCS Playoffs AND not give up the Celebration Bowl / Championship Games / Traditional Year-End “Bowls.”

Too much cash involved with those for them to even think about NOT doing them. No School / AD / Football Program would, BUT … ALL FCS Teams would stand to benefit by having those Conferences involved in the Playoffs…even if VERY creative ways to do that have to be hammered out AND even if those creative solutions ‘violate’ the ‘purity,’ ‘sanctity,’ and ‘fairness’ [FUBeAR making a violent choking sound] of the current FCS Playoff format/system.

Seems to me there's 2 "options" and 1 isn't feasible. A) they move the Celebration Bowl up to Rivalry Week and then join in the regularly scheduled playoffs the following weekend (or the weekend after that should the winner earn a top-8); this is pretty easily doable, if the desire was there or B) all other FCS schools delay their playoff system by 3 weeks so 2 schools can play their championship and then the FCS playoffs can begin. This year Round 1 would be on 12/21/24 (this would be the semis this year) and the natty would be held on 1/18/25, assuming no additional week(s) between the semis and the NC. Fans get just 1 week to arrange travel plans and a champion isn't crowned until mid-January. That seems like a pretty big concession for all the other schools to allow for 1 game that they aren't invited to.

I could be wrong, but the MEAC/SWAC seem quite content with their system.

[DFW HOYA]

If the MVFC or the Big Sky had a guaranteed network TV deal to play before 50,000 fans in Atlanta, do you think that they'd care about a first round bid in the FCS playoffs?

[FUBeAR]

Seems to me there's 2 "options" and 1 isn't feasible. A) they move the Celebration Bowl up to Rivalry Week and then join in the regularly scheduled playoffs the following weekend (or the weekend after that should the winner earn a top-8); this is pretty easily doable, if the desire was there or B) all other FCS schools delay their playoff system by 3 weeks so 2 schools can play their championship and then the FCS playoffs can begin. This year Round 1 would be on 12/21/24 (this would be the semis this year) and the natty would be held on 1/18/25, assuming no additional week(s) between the semis and the NC. Fans get just 1 week to arrange travel plans and a champion isn't crowned until mid-January. That seems like a pretty big concession for all the other schools to allow for 1 game that they aren't invited to.

I could be wrong, but the MEAC/SWAC seem quite content with their system.
We’ll add these to the whiteboard.

The MEAC/SWAC (and probably the Ivies, despite the (actual) topic of this thread), ARE perfectly content with “their” system.

Mrs. FUBeAR was perfectly content with her other boyfriends until ol’ FUBeAR realized there was a significant benefit he could, perhaps, realize if he left the monastery and convinced her that going out with FUBeAR might provide benefits to her as well. Sure, she still dated those other perfectly acceptable boyfriends for a time, but, that was fine cuz FUBeAR was still studying the Kangyur and the Tengyur on the sly. NOTHING remains in stasis though…and it all worked out.

Where there’s a will, there’s some greedy heirs with their hands out. No, that’s not it …. there’s a WAY (that’s it) … probably several of them … but none of them reach Johnson City heading WEST from the Cumberland Gap, Darius.

How to do it would require creativity, would not allow for the maintenance of the status quo, and would piss off a lot of people. But you can’t make a balut feast without breaking some fertilized duck eggs, y’know.

[MSUBobcat]

We’ll add these to the whiteboard.

The MEAC/SWAC (and probably the Ivies, despite the (actual) topic of this thread), ARE perfectly content with “their” system.

Mrs. FUBeAR was perfectly content with her other boyfriends until ol’ FUBeAR realized there was a significant benefit he could, perhaps, realize if he left the monastery and convinced her that going out with FUBeAR might provide benefits to her as well. Sure, she still dated those other perfectly acceptable boyfriends for a time, but, that was fine cuz FUBeAR was still studying the Kangyur and the Tengyur on the sly. NOTHING remains in stasis though…and it all worked out.

Where there’s a will, there’s some greedy heirs with their hands out. No, that’s not it …. there’s a WAY (that’s it) … probably several of them … but none of them reach Johnson City heading WEST from the Cumberland Gap, Darius.

How to do it would require creativity, would not allow for the maintenance of the status quo, and would piss off a lot of people. But you can’t make a balut feast without breaking some fertilized duck eggs, y’know.

But if Mrs. FUBeAR repeatedly thwarted ol' FUBeAR's advances, I suspect he would have accepted her wishes and backed off knowing the ball is in Mrs. FUBeAR's court and that she knew how to reach ol' FUBeAR if things changed to see if he was still interested in pursuing a.... union.

[FUBeAR]

But if Mrs. FUBeAR repeatedly thwarted ol' FUBeAR's advances, I suspect he would have accepted her wishes and backed off knowing the ball is in Mrs. FUBeAR's court and that she knew how to reach ol' FUBeAR if things changed to see if he was still interested in pursuing a.... union.
You, OBVIOUSLY, don’t know FUBeAR…

https://therawdogfoodco.nz/cdn/shop/articles/bone_lab_1200x.jpeg?v=1593474237

Besides that, FUBeAR would imagine, if advances have been repeatedly made, the always-so-collaborative NCAA (and FUBeAR has some life experience with their peeps in this realm), the Envoys sent approached the situation and those discussions with the El Cid / POD mindset..but way MORE dogmatic.

[GAD]

The issue with the SWAC and the playoffs is the start date, Grambling vs Southern (Bayou Classic) was already being played on Thanksgiving weekend. As many as 20k fans come in from out of state to visit with relatives and go to the game 20k at an average of $25 a ticket.
Also the game is played at a neutral site the Saturday following Thanksgiving is our date in the Superdome you can't just change dates because Tulane University played their home games there if we move the game, we would have to hope Grambling and Southern had a common open date on the same date Tulane had an away game or an open date.
The game is also covered by NBC, if NBC has other programing the day (Notre Dame) we played on we would loose our TV coverage

[FUBeAR]

The issue with the SWAC and the playoffs is the start date, Grambling vs Southern (Bayou Classic) was already being played on Thanksgiving weekend. As many as 20k fans come in from out of state to visit with relatives and go to the game 20k at an average of $25 a ticket.
Also the game is played at a neutral site the Saturday following Thanksgiving is our date in the Superdome you can't just change dates because Tulane University played their home games there if we move the game, we would have to hope Grambling and Southern had a common open date on the same date Tulane had an away game or an open date.
The game is also covered by NBC, if NBC has other programing the day (Notre Dame) we played on we would loose our TV coverage
Yep - wasn’t easy putting a man on Mars, either…but a lot of smart people figured it out.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The issue with the SWAC and the playoffs is the start date, Grambling vs Southern (Bayou Classic) was already being played on Thanksgiving weekend. As many as 20k fans come in from out of state to visit with relatives and go to the game 20k at an average of $25 a ticket.
Also the game is played at a neutral site the Saturday following Thanksgiving is our date in the Superdome you can't just change dates because Tulane University played their home games there if we move the game, we would have to hope Grambling and Southern had a common open date on the same date Tulane had an away game or an open date.
The game is also covered by NBC, if NBC has other programing the day (Notre Dame) we played on we would loose our TV coverage

Plus, your conference championship game is held the first Saturday in December. And isn't there at least one other Thanksgiving weekend rivalry game as well? Alabama A&M-Alabama State maybe?

[GAD]

Plus, your conference championship game is held the first Saturday in December. And isn't there at least one other Thanksgiving weekend rivalry game as well? Alabama A&M-Alabama State maybe?
Played on Thanksgiving Day Alabama State vs Tuskegee

[Pards Rule]

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

Dont they play the Saturday before Tgiving...thats the traditional day Lafayette plays Lehigh last game of regular season - except in 1963 for obvious reasons. They played a week later.

[CopperCat]

My understanding is that this is a major reason why the Ivy League does not participate in the FCS playoffs. If Harvard and Yale aren't interested, then it won't happen.

Institutional arrogance at its finest.

The Ivy plays in the NCAA men’s and women’s tournaments, but not football? Never understood it.

[Son of Eli]

The announcers on yesterday’s Harvard-Yale broadcast spent an inordinate amount of time discussing the issue of Ivy Football participation in the playoffs and the pending motion to allow it before the Ivy League presidents. I’ve never heard this issue discussed on an Ivy League broadcast in such depth. Maybe they know something we don’t? I have a feeling this time it might be different. I’m hopeful.

[DFW HOYA]

The announcers on yesterday’s Harvard-Yale broadcast spent an inordinate amount of time discussing the issue of Ivy Football participation in the playoffs and the pending motion to allow it before the Ivy League presidents. I’ve never heard this issue discussed on an Ivy League broadcast in such depth. Maybe they know something we don’t? I have a feeling this time it might be different. I’m hopeful.

Who would have gone if this was the rule in 2024?

[FUBeAR]

The announcers on yesterday’s Harvard-Yale broadcast spent an inordinate amount of time discussing the issue of Ivy Football participation in the playoffs and the pending motion to allow it before the Ivy League presidents. I’ve never heard this issue discussed on an Ivy League broadcast in such depth. Maybe they know something we don’t? I have a feeling this time it might be different. I’m hopeful.Did they provide any insight into how they thought the pending motion will be received/voted upon?

Did they express their opinions on the matter? If so, what were they?

[bulldog10jw]

Who would have gone if this was the rule in 2024?

Harvard, I would think. They beat both Dartmouth and Columbia.

[FUBeAR]

Who would have gone if this was the rule in 2024?
Gotta think it would have been Harvard with wins over Dartmouth and Columbia, the 2 other tied Teams.

[Son of Eli]

Who would have gone if this was the rule in 2024?


Harvard as they beat both Columbia and Dartmouth head to head.

[Son of Eli]

Did they provide any insight into how they thought the pending motion will be received/voted upon?

Did they express their opinions on the matter? If so, what were they?

They said the motion started with the student athletic council (something like that, don’t know the exact name) and was pushed by female athletes who viewed it as an equity issue. I’m guessing because only men are affected by this policy. It has since passed the athletic directors and is now going to the presidents for their consideration. We all know that football is not a priority for the Ivy Presidents, but equity definitely is.

[s-k]

If they actually break their ties to send a representative to the playoff then it would seem that there are not co-equal champions, but rather a recognized champion for the playoff and the other teams that share the Ivy Title are of lesser value. Of course we all know when it as simple as a head-to-head who the 'real' champion is, but Ivy has always equally shared it regardless. Would Columbia's first Ivy Title since 1961 be viewed the same if Harvard was going on to a playoff in effect creating a tiered champion? Columbia might not like that as much, almost like claiming a championship in name only.

Just keep it the way it is I say. I really find it surprising how many people with no attachment to the Ivy protest about this so much. Not referring to anyone here, but in the media, and I like the people who cover FCS football in the national media, but I have never understood why does it matter so much to them that Ivy participates or not. If you listen to some of the people talk on this they have such disdain for them not participating. They come off angry and resentful about it. Let the Ivy make their own choices and don't let it bother anyone so much.

[s-k]

....And, something I just though of, these people in the media who are pushing for the Ivy to be in the FCS playoff, that is going to take another spot away from some at-large team. These are the same people who will lament about this team or that team being left out of the playoff, well you let the Ivy in and there will be more of that happening. Interesting that these are probably some of the same people who don't like AQ spots going to the Patriot or NEC or Pioneer. An Ivy Champion would kind of be the same as letting two Patriot League teams into the playoff and most throw fits at the idea of a league like the Patriot having two teams. Just thinking some of this from "their" perspective. Do they really want it, or do they just like to complain about it?

[DFW HOYA]

.An Ivy Champion would kind of be the same as letting two Patriot League teams into the playoff and most throw fits at the idea of a league like the Patriot having two teams.

You realize the difference between the two leagues, correct? One is not like the other.

[Go...gate]

Ivy participation in the play-offs is long overdue.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Harvard as they beat both Columbia and Dartmouth head to head.

Correct, Harvard would've clinched the AQ before heading into rivalry weekend.

[bonarae]

They said the motion started with the student athletic council (something like that, don’t know the exact name) and was pushed by female athletes who viewed it as an equity issue. I’m guessing because only men are affected by this policy. It has since passed the athletic directors and is now going to the presidents for their consideration. We all know that football is not a priority for the Ivy Presidents, but equity definitely is.

Any links directly linked to or related to this concern? Looks like I'll be crossposting this on the Discord and the FCS Fans Nation (unless someone who lurks on both or even all three, we are some of us here, beats me to that.)

[Go Green]

If they actually break their ties to send a representative to the playoff then it would seem that there are not co-equal champions, but rather a recognized champion for the playoff and the other teams that share the Ivy Title are of lesser value..

Pretty sure that Ivy basketball teams are recognized as "co-champions" even though only one goes to the NCAA Tournament and the other goes to a lesser tournament (or even stays home) after a tie-breaker or playoff.

[Go Green]

Any links directly linked to or related to this concern? Looks like I'll be crossposting this on the Discord and the FCS Fans Nation (unless someone who lurks on both or even all three, we are some of us here, beats me to that.)

Ivy League to Consider Allowing Football Teams to Play in Postseason | News | The Harvard Crimson (https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/11/1/ivy-league-considers-football-postseason/)

Keep us posted on any news that you might find on other sites!

[Go Green]

The consensus seems to be that Dartmouth's president will vote "yes" for football playoffs. Our (still) new president is a sports fan.

Hopefully she gets some more yes votes. But it may ultimately come down to Harvard and Yale...

[Son of Eli]

The consensus seems to be that Dartmouth's president will vote "yes" for football playoffs. Our (still) new president is a sports fan.

Hopefully she gets some more yes votes. But it may ultimately come down to Harvard and Yale...


If I remember correctly it will take six votes to pass. Is that your understanding?

Both Harvard and Yale have new presidents, so that’s promising.

[caribbeanhen]

The consensus seems to be that Dartmouth's president will vote "yes" for football playoffs. Our (still) new president is a sports fan.

Hopefully she gets some more yes votes. But it may ultimately come down to Harvard and Yale...

Those Thurston Howell the III types never liked football

[Outsider1]

Those Thurston Howell the III types never liked football

How about the Loveys?

[caribbeanhen]

How about the Loveys?

even Gilligan knows the Ivy League should be in the FCS Playoffs

[s-k]

You realize the difference between the two leagues, correct? One is not like the other.

Ivy is better, deeper, more competitive.

My point is that people debate some years when the Patriot has two teams for playoff consideration, be that Lafayette and Holy Cross last year or Holy Cross and Fordham before that - people debate whether or not two teams from that league should be in the playoff and I believe that in years like that the top of the Ivy is comparable with the top of the Patriot. How much better was Harvard, Ivy Co-Champ this year, than Patriot Co-Champ Holy Cross? After watching the game I can say not much.

It's fine with me if the league wants to do it for their own reasons, that is their right of course. Or not to do it if they keep it the way it is.

I do think that some of the people on FCS podcasts who have been wanting the Ivy to join, like to them it somehow legitimizes Ivy football, as if it needs legitimized? They might ultimately be disappointed. Maybe win one game some years, or lose in the first round other years. Probably about as good as the Patriot has done recently. Having the Ivy Title among them remain the be-all end-all might be better for everyone.

If they really wanted to change something, perhaps consider letting graduate players have an extra year of eligibility so they didn't have to transfer out to keep playing?

[Ivytalk]

even Gilligan knows the Ivy League should be in the FCS Playoffs

Winthorpe agrees!

[ngineer]

Over the years, I think the 'best' of the Ivy could compete very well with the best of the other conferences. Indeed, the Ivy appears to have become a bit more competitive within itself, with Columbia, Brown, showing recent sparks; though, I recognize Princeton seems have encountered a recent funk. But, that happens. The rationale by the IL presidents never made any sense considering all their other sports participate in post-season playoffs.

[wcugrad95]

If they want to consider going to the playoffs, then I'd suggest they schedule more games against teams from the CAA, SOCON, OVC, etc. that would make logistical sense to gauge how they might fair and to possibly position themselves better.

Maybe they can, but I just don't see them being that competitive with many playoff-caliber teams. I can hear the argument now being that a couple of teams beat Central Connecticut who is in the playoffs, but to me that is more an indictment of how bad the NEC is right now than how good the Ivy League is. Yale beat a decent Lehigh team, but I am not sold on the Patriot, either. CCSU and Lehigh could prove me wrong, but I see both as one-and-done. I tried to scan many of the schedules by the Ivies for OOC games, and couldn't find much outside of Patriot and NEC games. Princeton is at the bottom of the standings, so not sure how indicative their game against Mercer was. But the Bears just kind of coasted in that 34-7 win. That was the only kind of "test" I quickly found. So I'd say the Ivies will be a perenial 1-bid leage if they do choose to join the playoffs unless they start playing some tougher schedules or they immediately have a lot of playoff success. They'll be very much like the SOCON and will probably continue to cannibalize themselves by playing a true round-robin and losing some headscratchers because the teams know each other so well. And that is not a great recipe for playoff bids.

[Sitting Bull]

My experience over the years has been the Ivy teams compete better than expected. Against the CAA this year, Penn gave Delaware one of their toughest games and Harvard beat UNH. URI (and Bryant) beat Brown but it wasn’t a blowout.

[caribbeanhen]

If they want to consider going to the playoffs, then I'd suggest they schedule more games against teams from the CAA, SOCON, OVC, etc. that would make logistical sense to gauge how they might fair and to possibly position themselves better.

Maybe they can, but I just don't see them being that competitive with many playoff-caliber teams. I can hear the argument now being that a couple of teams beat Central Connecticut who is in the playoffs, but to me that is more an indictment of how bad the NEC is right now than how good the Ivy League is. Yale beat a decent Lehigh team, but I am not sold on the Patriot, either. CCSU and Lehigh could prove me wrong, but I see both as one-and-done. I tried to scan many of the schedules by the Ivies for OOC games, and couldn't find much outside of Patriot and NEC games. Princeton is at the bottom of the standings, so not sure how indicative their game against Mercer was. But the Bears just kind of coasted in that 34-7 win. That was the only kind of "test" I quickly found. So I'd say the Ivies will be a perenial 1-bid leage if they do choose to join the playoffs unless they start playing some tougher schedules or they immediately have a lot of playoff success. They'll be very much like the SOCON and will probably continue to cannibalize themselves by playing a true round-robin and losing some headscratchers because the teams know each other so well. And that is not a great recipe for playoff bids.

I disagree

Harvard would beat half the playoff field and they did beat playoff bound New Hampshire this Year


I totally agree they should continue to schedule better OOC teams

[DFW HOYA]

1. The Ivy League is, top to bottom, stronger than the Patriot League, although Richmond may change that calculus next year. The Ivy League's schedule is constrained by a 10 game limit and no games before the third week of September, which takes out a lot of intersectional opportunities.

2. So much of the playoffs is home field advantage to start. If the OVC champ opened at Harvard or Dartmouth in late November, the results may not be as predictable.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They said the motion started with the student athletic council (something like that, don’t know the exact name) and was pushed by female athletes who viewed it as an equity issue. I’m guessing because only men are affected by this policy. It has since passed the athletic directors and is now going to the presidents for their consideration. We all know that football is not a priority for the Ivy Presidents, but equity definitely is.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this part of the discussion, but I do want to point out that whomever brought it up, female athletes or whomever, it is and always has been an equity issue. We are all bringing up the equity argument in some way on this very thread, i.e. why do female volleyball teams get to fly to Santa Barbara, California in the NCAAs during exams yet for some reason Harvard can't host UNH because of exams?

I'll reiterate here my suspicion that the Ivy League might finally be separating from the NIL Power 4 conferences and Notre Dame. The money in FB$ is an abomination, but the Ivy League wanted to be a part of it to compete on the "highest level" in Olympic sports, etc. I suspect this might be the first step in the Ivy League divorcing themselves from those conferences.

[caribbeanhen]

https://x.com/petethamel/status/1869380311878119916?s=42

finally

[CHIP72]

https://x.com/petethamel/status/1869380311878119916?s=42

finally

As Rosco P. Coltrane would have said back in the day, “good news, good news”.

Now hopefully the Ivy League will expand from a 10 game schedule to an 11 game schedule and also schedule more games vs the CAA. (I personally want the Penn/Villanova series to resume.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sitting Bull]

Yes, this is great news. Say what you want about Ivy League football, the membership is something you won’t find outside of P4: national brand names. I’ve always felt the Ivy was the ace in the deck for FCS football. Nice to see they’re becoming full fledged participants.

[JacksFan40]

I’m surprised but happy by this, will be fun to see some different teams in the playoffs and see how the Ivies stack up to the Big Sky and MVFC.

[FUBeAR]

Yes, this is great news. Say what you want about Ivy League football, the membership is something you won’t find outside of P4: national brand names. I’ve always felt the Ivy was the ace in the deck for FCS football. Nice to see they’re becoming full fledged participants.
FUBeAR approves of this message!


1/3rd done. More work to do. xnodx

[Go Green]

***SNOOPY DANCE***

:)

[Professor Chaos]

I'm legit shocked.... I figured Hahvahd and Yale would never allow their "precious" to not be the final game of the season.

This is great for the subdivision though - really looking forward to seeing how the Ivy teams stack up against playoff competition!

[POD Knows]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[Ivytalk]

Yes, this is great news. Say what you want about Ivy League football, the membership is something you won’t find outside of P4: national brand names. I’ve always felt the Ivy was the ace in the deck for FCS football. Nice to see they’re becoming full fledged participants.

Great post, SB. I feel the same way, and I know the Ivy players do also.

[caribbeanhen]

I'm legit shocked.... I figured Hahvahd and Yale would never allow their "precious" to not be the final game of the season.

This is great for the subdivision though - really looking forward to seeing how the Ivy teams stack up against playoff competition!

they won't fare well against the Mt Rushmore teams, but I see them competing very well with the rest of the unwashed massed of FCS

[Wolffan]

One less at-large playoff slot now available. And in certain years the Ivy League might themselves get an at-large.

May see an Ivy League OOC schedule upgrade to play stronger CAA programs (Nova, W&M, URI, UNH, etc.) more frequently - as an opportunity to climb in the polls/win an at-large).

[AggieManiac704]

FUBeAR approves of this message!


1/3rd done. More work to do. xnodx

Leave dem other 2 out of this lol

[caribbeanhen]

Leave dem other 2 out of this lol

if they really wanted to get creative, you could have your cake and eat it too

[DFW HOYA]

May see an Ivy League OOC schedule upgrade to play stronger CAA programs (Nova, W&M, URI, UNH, etc.) more frequently - as an opportunity to climb in the polls/win an at-large).

Perhaps, but then even fewer teams playing Georgetown or Bucknell.

[FUBeAR]

if they really wanted to get creative, you could have your cake and eat it too
https://c.tenor.com/y0Uak1ZbcP8AAAAd/tenor.gif

[Kramden]

Perhaps, but then even fewer teams playing Georgetown or Bucknell.

IVY's will have a better chance than the PL of getting an at large bid.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

https://x.com/petethamel/status/1869380311878119916?s=42

finally

About time.

This is great news for Eastern FCS football!

Positive news receives positive posts.

[DFW HOYA]

IVY's will have a better chance than the PL of getting an at large bid.

It can happen. Likelihood of a PL team getting an at-large bid in the next five years:

Richmond: 80%
Holy Cross: 65%
Lehigh: 50%
Lafayette: 40%
Fordham: 40%
Colgate: 40%
Bucknell: 1%
Georgetown: 0%

If Georgetown didn't get any consideration whatsoever for an 8-3 record in 2011, it'll never happen.

[MSUBobcat]

I'm legit shocked.... I figured Hahvahd and Yale would never allow their "precious" to not be the final game of the season.

This is great for the subdivision though - really looking forward to seeing how the Ivy teams stack up against playoff competition!

To be fair, more often than not, it will STILL be the final game of the season for at least 1, if not both.... xsmiley_wix

Joke aside, this is great news for everyone involved, from the Ivy student-athletes getting to prove their mettle against the "best" of the FCS to all the other FCS programs getting a boost in stature by having the bigger "name brands" competing in the playoff. Only losers appear to be the stuffy suits that kept them out all these years.

[Wolffan]

Perhaps, but then even fewer teams playing Georgetown or Bucknell. Fewer Ivy games for the weaker PL programs would be my guess. Which may be a good thing or a bad thing or a meh thing for the PL programs involved.

[wapiti]

Will the Ivies start their season the same time as the rest of FCS? and as a result have a better opportunity to up the SOS.

[bulldog10jw]

Will the Ivies start their season the same time as the rest of FCS? and as a result have a better opportunity to up the SOS.

Starting earlier and an 11th game is a must.

[dbackjon]

Really glad they are doing this!

[dbackjon]

One less at-large playoff slot now available. And in certain years the Ivy League might themselves get an at-large.

May see an Ivy League OOC schedule upgrade to play stronger CAA programs (Nova, W&M, URI, UNH, etc.) more frequently - as an opportunity to climb in the polls/win an at-large).


Yup This year Dartmouth would have been in, NAU likely out. And I would have been OK with that

[Chalupa Batman]

https://x.com/petethamel/status/1869380311878119916?s=42

finally

Fantastic news! Like many others here I'm pleasantly surprised but very happy to hear it.

[Son of Eli]

Starting earlier and an 11th game is a must.

What did the Patriot League do first, add an 11th game or participate in the FCS playoffs?

While I would love an 11th game, remember we are talking about the Ivy League here. The last major change was allowing freshman eligibility. That last major change happened in 1992. So expect the next mayor change in around 30 years or so.

[bulldog10jw]

Yup This year Dartmouth would have been in, NAU likely out. And I would have been OK with that

Harvard would have gotten the auto bid.

[bulldog10jw]

What did the Patriot League do first, add an 11th game or participate in the FCS playoffs?

While I would love an 11th game, remember are talking about the Ivy League here. The last major change was allowing freshman eligibility. That last major change happened in 1992. So expect the next mayor change in around 30 years or so.

I know, but really the playoffs and an 11th game should be instituted at the same time, but you are probably right. I was just hoping it would dawn on everyone that getting all this done at the same time is the smart thing to do.

Not sure when the PL went to 11 games but haven't they always been in the playoffs?

[DFW HOYA]

What did the Patriot League do first, add an 11th game or participate in the FCS playoffs?


The PL were at 11 games since its start in 1986.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross has been playing an 11-game schedule (12 when it's allowable) since the early/mid 1970s. I think that's roughly when most D1 schools went to 11 games.

I think the Ivies only went to a 10 game schedule around 1980 or so. Remember them playing just 9 games as a kid. Dartmouth almost always played just Holy Cross and UNH OOC for years.

[Go...gate]

https://x.com/petethamel/status/1869380311878119916?s=42

finally

Very happy to see this. Long overdue.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross has been playing an 11-game schedule (12 when it's allowable) since the early/mid 1970s. I think that's roughly when most D1 schools went to 11 games.

I think the Ivies only went to a 10 game schedule around 1980 or so. Remember them playing just 9 games as a kid. Dartmouth almost always played just Holy Cross and UNH OOC for years.

Correct. Ivy went to 10 games in 1980.

[Son of Eli]

I know, but really the playoffs and an 11th game should be instituted at the same time, but you are probably right. I was just hoping it would dawn on everyone that getting all this done at the same time is the smart thing to do.

Not sure when the PL went to 11 games but haven't they always been in the playoffs?


I checked. Patriot League always had an 11 game schedule going back to its formation as the Colonial League in 1986. Patriot League started playoff participation in 1997.

[Go...gate]

What did the Patriot League do first, add an 11th game or participate in the FCS playoffs?

While I would love an 11th game, remember we are talking about the Ivy League here. The last major change was allowing freshman eligibility. That last major change happened in 1992. So expect the next mayor change in around 30 years or so.

Patriot added the 11th game before agreeing on playoffs.

[Son of Eli]

Patriot added the 11th game before agreeing on playoffs.


It is certainly long overdue for the Ivy league to add an 11th game. Hopefully common sense will again win out as it did here with today’s playoff announcement. I’m just not going to hold my breath.

[MSUBobcat]

What did the Patriot League do first, add an 11th game or participate in the FCS playoffs?

While I would love an 11th game, remember we are talking about the Ivy League here. The last major change was allowing freshman eligibility. That last major change happened in 1992. So expect the next mayor change in around 30 years or so.

I don't think it will take 30 years for the next major change. I would say the first time an Ivy gets left out as an at-large due to not having that extra win, even over a powder puff, will be the impetus to add the 11th game. I would suspect such a controversy to occur within 5 years.

[Son of Eli]

I don't think it will take 30 years for the next major change. I would say the first time an Ivy gets left out as an at-large due to not having that extra win, even over a powder puff, will be the impetus to add the 11th game. I would suspect such a controversy to occur within 5 years.


Now that the Ivy League is participating in the playoffs it does give an added argument for adding an 11th game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's quite a feeling when a thing you've been lobbying about for more than a decade finally comes to fruition. As many others have said here, a great day for Eastern football. And I also agree, the next question has to be about the 10 game season. An 11th game would open up 8 more slots for mostly Eastern out-of-conference games, if the Ivies scheduling doesn't change much.

[bulldog10jw]

Do we know for sure that the Ivy League will get an auto bid next year?

[nickp]

We will finally see how the Ivy measures up to the rest of FCS

[Son of Eli]

Do we know for sure that the Ivy League will get an auto bid next year?


yes, the league confirmed that with the ncaa.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/43040720/sources-ivy-league-participate-fcs-football-playoffs

[Son of Eli]

We will finally see how the Ivy measures up to the rest of FCS


I think we already have a good idea. The Ivy League beat three playoff teams this year: New Hampshire, Lehigh and CCSU(2x).

[Bison56]

This is exciting!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Perhaps someone here can answer this - when did Harvard's President start to think about participation? Following this over the years my impression was broadly that: the players and coaches were 1,000% for it, with the possible exception of Tim Murphy, and the Ivy Presidents were either ambivalent or divided on the issue. The Presidents of course come and go for the most part, and the ADs sometimes have deep-seated opinions too. The only thing I can say for certain is that something changed at Harvard. The rest I'm less certain about.

Over my time Yale's interest in it to me has ebbed and flowed. I've always thought the coaches and players there have been gung-ho to compete in the FCS Playoffs (and in fact a Yale player made the proposal). But Presidential buy-in was not always there, nor may have been AD buy-in. That's my impression - is that right?

[CHIP72]

I think we already have a good idea. The Ivy League beat three playoff teams this year: New Hampshire, Lehigh and CCSU(2x).

Though it doesn’t count towards the above, hell a 4-6 Penn team lost a very close game on the road to a 9-2 Delaware team. (The Quakers led much of the game and had a chance to tie the game late before a turnover and ended up losing to the Blue Hens 29-22.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Son of Eli]

Perhaps someone here can answer this - when did Harvard's President start to think about participation? Following this over the years my impression was broadly that: the players and coaches were 1,000% for it, with the possible exception of Tim Murphy, and the Ivy Presidents were either ambivalent or divided on the issue. The Presidents of course come and go for the most part, and the ADs sometimes have deep-seated opinions too. The only thing I can say for certain is that something changed at Harvard. The rest I'm less certain about.

Over my time Yale's interest in it to me has ebbed and flowed. I've always thought the coaches and players there have been gung-ho to compete in the FCS Playoffs (and in fact a Yale player made the proposal). But Presidential buy-in was not always there, nor may have been AD buy-in. That's my impression - is that right?

I think there are a lot of factors for the paradigm shift. First, there has been tremendous turnover recently in Ivy League Presidents. There are new presidents at Harvard, Cornell, Penn and Yale within the last year or so. Also almost all of the presidents are woman, which gives us the “only Nixon could go to China” effect. Other reasons:

1) old guard stuffy alumni who didn’t wan’t to play “directional schools from flyover country” have largely died off;

2) to retain players in the face of the transfer portal and help retain the Ivy League’s stable of high caliber head coaches; and

3) to reinvigorate alumni giving which has greatly waned recently in the wake of campus unrest

[bulldog10jw]

almost all of the presidents are woman

That is the biggest reason common sense prevailed.

[bonarae]

Finally, I can change my signature again and live in peace... xpeacex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One thing I can say for certain is I need to keep my ESPNU subscription up to date and pay attention a lot more on Fridays.

[MSUBobcat]

It's quite a feeling when a thing you've been lobbying about for more than a decade finally comes to fruition. As many others have said here, a great day for Eastern football. And I also agree, the next question has to be about the 10 game season. An 11th game would open up 8 more slots for mostly Eastern out-of-conference games, if the Ivies scheduling doesn't change much.

Don't be greedy! We would like a H&H with the Ivies in the near future also! Honestly, I'm more apt to go to a Bobcat away game @ Harvard than I am to drive 7 hrs to see them play on that god-awful red EWU turf.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't be greedy! We would like a H&H with the Ivies in the near future also! Honestly, I'm more apt to go to a Bobcat away game @ Harvard than I am to drive 7 hrs to see them play on that god-awful red EWU turf.

You actually bring up an excellent point - Ivy OOC games like that would go a very long way towards adding variety to MSU's schedule and Ivy League team's national reach in FCS. Win/win.

[Southsider]

Pretty sure Lehigh has been playing 11 games since the early 70’s.

[Bill]

Perhaps someone here can answer this - when did Harvard's President start to think about participation? Following this over the years my impression was broadly that: the players and coaches were 1,000% for it, with the possible exception of Tim Murphy, and the Ivy Presidents were either ambivalent or divided on the issue. The Presidents of course come and go for the most part, and the ADs sometimes have deep-seated opinions too. The only thing I can say for certain is that something changed at Harvard. The rest I'm less certain about.

Over my time Yale's interest in it to me has ebbed and flowed. I've always thought the coaches and players there have been gung-ho to compete in the FCS Playoffs (and in fact a Yale player made the proposal). But Presidential buy-in was not always there, nor may have been AD buy-in. That's my impression - is that right?

LFN,
I can't speak to the Presidential switch with participation, but I do know the NCAA, the AD's, and the Presidents put a LOT of weight on SAAC proposals and recommendations. If Ivy League SAAC's were in favor of this, and made the right proposals known (which it sounds like they did), they made it very hard for the Presidents not to go along!

[Ivytalk]

That is the biggest reason common sense prevailed.

Actually, Harvard’s new President, Alan Garber, may have been the spark plug. He is the first Harvard undergrad to assume the presidency since Nathan Pusey back in the 60s. His predecessor, Claudine Gay, wasn’t around long enough to make a difference, and her predecessor, Larry Bacow, was indifferent to athletics.

[caribbeanhen]

Though it doesn’t count towards the above, hell a 4-6 Penn team lost a very close game on the road to a 9-2 Delaware team. (The Quakers led much of the game and had a chance to tie the game late before a turnover and ended up losing to the Blue Hens 29-22.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?t=30837

this thread might interest you

I made a comment after the Penn game that they would be one of the best teams Delaware played all year…. One guy took exception to lit, and started his own thread. He thought my comment was ridiculous.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Actually, Harvard’s new President, Alan Garber, may have been the spark plug. He is the first Harvard undergrad to assume the presidency since Nathan Pusey back in the 60s. His predecessor, Claudine Gay, wasn’t around long enough to make a difference, and her predecessor, Larry Bacow, was indifferent to athletics.

Real interesting. I like the idea of calling him a "spark plug", i.e. the conditions were there due to a lot of different factors, but someone had to be the igniting charge. Maybe it was him along with a lot of other factors Eli mentioned.

[OhioHen]

It is certainly long overdue for the Ivy league to add an 11th game. Hopefully common sense will again win out as it did here with today’s playoff announcement. I’m just not going to hold my breath.
But the ten-game schedule minimizes the potential number of OOC losses. 7-3 just "looks" much better than 7-4 as a potential at-large (look - they only lost three games).

[bonarae]

I'll leave it here... this is the backstory.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/12/24/saac-campaign-ncaa-football-playoffs/

[bulldog10jw]

I'll leave it here... this is the backstory.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/12/24/saac-campaign-ncaa-football-playoffs/

The Ivy League has now entered the 20th century with playoff participation, but still needs an 11th game and an earlier start to the season to enter the 21st.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But higher-level administrators proved more skeptical of the bid to overturn a long-standing precedent, and the proposal stalled when it moved to the Ivy League Policy Committee, a group of thirteen senior university officials who monitor the league’s athletic policies and programs.

Although the proposal had seen little resistance so far, the policy committee — composed of administrators in largely academic positions, as opposed to athletics — raised several concerns with extending the football season to include the FCS playoffs.


According to Carey, the committee worried the rule change would mean extending the season for three more months, causing schools to have to move their players’ final exams.

Ultimately, the policy committee decided to table the proposal to discuss at their next meeting in November — effectively stalling the proposal for months.



Any math professors in that Ivy League Policy Committee?

[caribbeanhen]

Any math professors in that Ivy League Policy Committee?

these nutty professors are just having a hard time accepting that football is more popular than their silly lectures so the really stray from truth

[NY Crusader 2010]

But the ten-game schedule minimizes the potential number of OOC losses. 7-3 just "looks" much better than 7-4 as a potential at-large (look - they only lost three games).

But 8-3 looks a lot better than 7-3 also...double-edged sword.

I don't think Ivies will be getting at-large teams in at 7-3, at least not yet. They very rarely play FBS opponents, so all their losses are FCS. Meanwhile, 75% of FCS programs have an FBS loss on their resume. So comparing a 7-3 Ivy League team to an 8-3 CAA or SoCon team for example, you're comparing a 7-3 FCS record to an 8-2 FCS record most likely. The other caveat would be that Ivies almost never play DII or NAIA opponents whereas some FCS teams do.

[taper]

But the ten-game schedule minimizes the potential number of OOC losses. 7-3 just "looks" much better than 7-4 as a potential at-large (look - they only lost three games).
The 10 game schedule is garbage. In 2013 Montana St bought out their game at NDSU on short notice and we had literally no available teams to backfill as everyone's schedule was complete. Our AD asked the NCAA if we could play 10 games and the answer was an emphatic "NO". We ended up paying a D2 to rearrange their schedule.
Ivy have chosen not to be FCS. I wish everyone else would acknowledge that.

[bonarae]

The 10 game schedule is garbage. In 2013 Montana St bought out their game at NDSU on short notice and we had literally no available teams to backfill as everyone's schedule was complete. Our AD asked the NCAA if we could play 10 games and the answer was an emphatic "NO". We ended up paying a D2 to rearrange their schedule.
Ivy have chosen not to be FCS. I wish everyone else would acknowledge that.

But some HBCUs, PFL and other scholarship teams only choose to schedule 10 games in a season for one reason or another... xrulesx

[taper]

But some HBCUs, PFL and other scholarship teams only choose to schedule 10 games in a season for one reason or another... xrulesx
BS. Name them. As a head start here's the wiki table for all teams. 10 games is not an FCS schedule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_season

[FUBeAR]

BS. Name them. As a head start here's the wiki table for all teams. 10 games is not an FCS schedule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_season
Mercer, 2021 - 10 games, including an NAIA Team. Only 8 FCS games (the SoCon Schedule) -> https://mercerbears.com/sports/football/schedule/2021

[DFW HOYA]

Our AD asked the NCAA if we could play 10 games and the answer was an emphatic "NO".

NCAA bylaw 17.11.6.1: there is no minimum number of games required in FCS. There were teams playing a nine game schedule into the 1990s.

[taper]

Mercer, 2021 - 10 games, including an NAIA Team. Only 8 FCS games (the SoCon Schedule) -> https://mercerbears.com/sports/football/schedule/2021
Covid years don't count. Special case, yes?


NCAA bylaw 17.11.6.1: there is no minimum number of games required in FCS. There were teams playing a nine game schedule into the 1990s.
I'm aware of the bylaws, but when has the NCAA strictly followed their own rules? NDSU was told in 2013 we MUST play 11. That's a fact.

[FUBeAR]

Covid years don't count. Special case, yes?


I'm aware of the bylaws, but when has the NCAA strictly followed their own rules? NDSU was told in 2013 we MUST play 11. That's a fact.
Not a Covid year … that’s this schedule -> https://mercerbears.com/sports/football/schedule/2020 - 3 2020 OOC Fall games in 2020 & 8 (SoCon) games in the Spring of 2021.

Special case? If you count failing to secure an 11th game as a “special case,” then you can call yourself correct.

The NCAA, as far as FUBeAR knows, communicated no objections to Mercer’s 10 game schedule in 2021.

Even with that schedule, the Bears just, officially, missed the FCS Playoffs -> https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2021-playoff-bracket-bzbz/

“The Bubble
Last 2 in
SIU
UNI

First 3 out
Mercer
EKU
Rhody”

[NY Crusader 2010]

The 10 game schedule is garbage. In 2013 Montana St bought out their game at NDSU on short notice and we had literally no available teams to backfill as everyone's schedule was complete. Our AD asked the NCAA if we could play 10 games and the answer was an emphatic "NO". We ended up paying a D2 to rearrange their schedule.
Ivy have chosen not to be FCS. I wish everyone else would acknowledge that.

This definitely never happened. But good for NDSU for scheduling another game last minute against a DII (which is common practice). I'm sure with the average crowd size you guys get in Fargo, scheduling another game was more than worth it revenue-wise. There absolutely is no rule forcing DI teams to play 11 games. About 10-12 years ago, Colgate had an opponent drop them and they ultimately stuck to a 10-game schedule instead of playing a lower-division opponent. I was not a fan of this move at the time.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Covid years don't count. Special case, yes?


I'm aware of the bylaws, but when has the NCAA strictly followed their own rules? NDSU was told in 2013 we MUST play 11. That's a fact.

Doubt the NCAA would've been involved in this. Must've been internal. Maybe it was the university president who told the AD he had to schedule another game. I imagine a home game's worth of revenue in Fargo is not insignificant. The only other thing I could think of would've been a potential loophole that you need to play a certain # of games to clear probation while transitioning from DII to DI. But NDSU was well past that point in 2013 -- I think you guys had at least one if not two trophies in the case by 2013.

[Ridge1982]

these nutty professors are just having a hard time accepting that football is more popular than their silly lectures so the really stray from truth
Spoken like a T-shirt fan.

[Son of Eli]

I'll leave it here... this is the backstory.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/12/24/saac-campaign-ncaa-football-playoffs/

This article brought tears to my eyes. Leah Carey and Mason Shipp are heroes in my book. They had to move mountains to get this done. Dreams will come true as a result of their efforts. Mine already has.

[caribbeanhen]

Spoken like a T-shirt fan.

you read em right

[NY Crusader 2010]

NCAA bylaw 17.11.6.1: there is no minimum number of games required in FCS. There were teams playing a nine game schedule into the 1990s.

True, but I'm pretty the only DI programs playing 9 games to that point were the Ivies. Since '95 or '96, the Ancient 8 have all played 10, minus extenuating circumstances (9/11, COVID, weather cancellation). Columbia might've been the last one still only playing nine IIRC. The majority of DI moved to an 11-game schedule sometime in the 1960's.

[bulldog10jw]

True, but I'm pretty the only DI programs playing 9 games to that point were the Ivies. Since '95 or '96, the Ancient 8 have all played 10, minus extenuating circumstances (9/11, COVID, weather cancellation). Columbia might've been the last one still only playing nine IIRC. The majority of DI moved to an 11-game schedule sometime in the 1960's.

The Ivy League as a group went to 10 games in 1980.

[Sader87]

I think most D1 teams went to 11 game schedules in the 1970s.

Looking back, it's incredible how late in September the season started for many teams then....well into the Septembahh 20s

HC opened a 10 game season in 1968 at Harvard on Sept. 28th.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Ivy League as a group went to 10 games in 1980.

Looking at all time standings, it looks like you guys randomly went back to a 9-game schedule for one season in 1984 and then back to ten from 1985 until present. The only exception in that time frame was 2001 due to cancellations for obvious reasons on Saturday September 15th. Everyone played 9 that year except Columbia who played 10. The Columbia-Fordham game was rescheduled from 9/15 to 11/22 which was Thanksgiving Day. So, Columbia is the last Ivy team to play a game Thanksgiving weekend....until next year when the league accepts its first NCAA auto-bid. Also, when are Columbia and Fordham going to resume their series?

[bulldog10jw]

Looking at all time standings, it looks like you guys randomly went back to a 9-game schedule for one season in 1984 and then back to ten from 1985 until present.

The Ivy League being the Ivy League, there was a reason for nine games in 1984.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1984/9/17/glitch-in-time-means-nine-pbibn/