Should the NEC Allow Merrimack and Sacred Heart to Return?

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

As well known, the NEC, under the incompetent Noreen, has refused to allow departing institutions to "park" their football programs in the conference. While sound in principle, this policy clearly hasn't stopped any school with an ounce of respect and a pulse to leave for greener pastures. With the conference allowing RMU to return, should the entity expand the same invitation to Sacred Heart and Merrimack?

[aceinthehole]

You know I'm no fan of Noreen or the NEC in general, but IMO there is absolutely ZERO reason for the NEC members to allow SHU and Merrimack to return to the NEC for football.

The league will have 8 teams next season, and each school will play a 7-game schedule. In a standard 11-game seasons, each team can schedule 4 non-conference opponents. This gives each school the opportunity to schedule FBS opponents and regional FCS teams. The only real downside to this is the uneven NEC home/away games.

Both SHU and Merrimack are available for NEC teams to schedule as non-conference opponents if they chose to do so. Some may choose to schedule them, others might not. Do the Western PA teams really want to be forced into a trip to New England? Merrimack is a very long bus ride for Mercyhurst, Duquesne, Bobby Mo, and SFU. I just don't see why they want to be required to make this extra trip out East.

The NEC has the AQ bid and a complete league schedule - what advantage does adding SHU and Merrimack provide the existing members? The NEC is never going to have the strength of schedule to earn at at-large, so these 2 teams only take away a potential bid for current members.

Lastly, while excluding them for associate membership in football did not prevent them from leaving the NEC for the MAAC, it has to have some consequences. These teams do not have a league, so the players can't earn weekly and season-ending honors, the teams can't be ranked in a league poll, and they don't have access to the AQ bid. These consequences hurt those schools and help SFU, CCSU, DUQ, WAG, LIU in recruiting against Sacred Heart and Merrimack. Those programs will get weaker as an FCS Independent and that's good news for the rest of the NEC.

I don't blame Sacred Heart or Merrimack for leaving the NEC for the MAAC. It was a great move for their basketball and athletic programs. But CCSU needs whatever strategic advantage available against these programs. We recruit against them in football and it makes no sense to give them access to league membership.

Again, Noreen is a horrible commissioner and the NEC is my nightmare, but as long as we are a member I need the league to work for our us and giving SHU/MC associate membership in football hurts CCSU more than any other NEC program, so I am 1000% against it and I don't think the current membership sees the need to bail them out. They will sink or swim ad FCS Independents or find affiliation in the Big South or OVC.

[UNHWildcat18]

Eh, they’ll be let back in. Just give it 2-3 years.

[DFW HOYA]

Again, Noreen is a horrible commissioner and the NEC is my nightmare, but as long as we are a member I need the league to work for our us and giving SHU/MC associate membership in football hurts CCSU more than any other NEC program, so I am 1000% against it and I don't think the current membership sees the need to bail them out. They will sink or swim ad FCS Independents or find affiliation in the Big South or OVC.

I can't see either as a candidate for the Big South or OVC. Then again, unless Duquesne somehow took Richmond's place in the CAA, I can't see them in the NEC, either.

[aceinthehole]

I can't see either as a candidate for the Big South or OVC. Then again, unless Duquesne somehow took Richmond's place in the CAA, I can't see them in the NEC, either.

Agreed. I doubt that either Merrimack or Sacred Heart join a far-flung league like the Big South or OVC. It is clear that they both can fill out a complete schedule as an Independent putting together games with NEC, Patriot, MEAC, Ivy and CAA teams in the region, plus a FBS game. They don't really need a league membership to fill out a schedule in this part of the country. They have enough teams willing to play them.

However, there is no doubt that being the only 2 FCS Independents in the country without AQ access or individual player honors will hurt recruiting more and more each year. What can SHU offer recruits that is an advantage over Duquesne, Wagner or Saint Francis? SHU has 4 NCAA bids out of the NEC (2013, 2014, 2020-21, and 2021) and put players like Chesnut in the NFL. How far will the program fall as an Independent?

My point was it is a STRATEGIC ADVANTAGE for the rest of the NEC members to keep them both out of the league as an associate. The NEC doesn't need any more teams to meet the NCAA AQ criteria and they won't help our SOS to push us past the Patriot or Ivy - so there is no NEED to add them back. The most likely issue is they can both leverage any success in the MAAC and their existing budgetary advantage and "steal" the NEC AQ from full members. The only reason RMU was added back was members needed to get the league back to 8 teams.

Again, there is really no debate - they aren't needed and won't be added back unless something significant changes. If Bryant wasn't added to CAA Football they would be in the same boat as MC and SHU. They NEC wasn't sending an invite to Smithfield for football. If Bryant/MC/SHU were back in the league the odds of Saint Francis returning to the NCAAs would be almost nil. Newcomers like Stonehill and Mercyhurst are waiting for their chance to win the AQ bid and giving associate membership to Merrimack and Sacred Heart only decreases their chances.

And due to their stadium and financial situation, Duquesne has ZERO chance at an invite to anywhere else.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Noreen has learned the lesson of the Yankee Conference. Because SHU and Merrimack (may) have made foolish decisions, it's not up to the NEC to offer them a bailout. If the NEC allows schools to pick and choose what sports are in the conference, it will mean the end of that conference.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Noreen has learned the lesson of the Yankee Conference. Because SHU and Merrimack (may) have made foolish decisions, it's not up to the NEC to offer them a bailout. If the NEC allows schools to pick and choose what sports are in the conference, it will mean the end of that conference.

Newsflash!

The conference has been reduced to admitting Chicago State and Mercyhurst. It is already a barely functional Jimmy Carter. Since she has enacted the "no-parking" football policy, 4-5 schools have fled. It doesn't deter any programs from leaving.

It failed. Accept the mistake and swallow what little unjustified pride the conference has. Noreen already hypocritically allowed Bobby Morris to return.

[aceinthehole]

Newsflash!

The conference has been reduced to admitting Chicago State and Mercyhurst. It is already a barely functional Jimmy Carter. Since she has enacted the "no-parking" football policy, 4-5 schools have fled. It doesn't deter any programs from leaving.

It failed. Accept the mistake and swallow what little unjustified pride the conference has. Noreen already hypocritically allowed Bobby Morris to return.

You are 100% correct that this policy has not prevented any defections (see RMU, Bryant, MC, SHU).

You are also right; the NEC was in such dire straits they were forced to add Chicago State and Mercyhurst. This league is functioning at the lowest level of D-I.

However, you are missing the remaining benefit of excluding them both from NEC Football. This policy of exclusion actually (and greatly) benefits the remaining members, including SFU (and CCSU). The horse it out of the barn - they've both left for the MAAC and ain't coming back - but allowing them to "park" football in the NEC only helps them and hurts the full NEC members. That is the reason why it makes sense for the NEC to maintain this policy today.

Again, Noreen is the cause of a many of the NEC's problems - but this policy just isn't one of them.

[Go...gate]

Let them back in the NEC for Football.

[NY Crusader 2010]

ace is actually 100% correct here. Reason being the NEC is actually in much more dire straights in the "all sports" front than it is on the "FCS auto-bid" front. With 8 members, the league currently has a cushion when it comes to the auto-bid where it needs six. Meanwhile, on the all sports front, they are at the minimum and had to add Mercyhurst and Chicago State just to get there. Whether SHU and Merrimack are in the football league or not, 1 all-sports defection still leaves the NEC in the same place, which is having to dumpster dive for yet another new full member just to maintain the NCAA basketball bid. Bentley, New Haven and St. Anselm are hopefully on standby.

[MSUBobcat]

Meh... doesn't the CAA need to add some teams to get back up to 244 teams? Plus, Bryant would like a conference foe to beat up on. Win-win.

[mvfcfan]

My vote is for the America East Conference to start up FCS football. They already have Maine, Bryant, New Hampshire, and Albany. Add Merrimack and Sacred Heart as fb-only schools and you have your minimum of 6 to get an AQ. Rhode Island seems like they should be an easy pick up for fb-only to get to 7.

[UNHWildcat18]

My vote is for the America East Conference to start up FCS football. They already have Maine, Bryant, New Hampshire, and Albany. Add Merrimack and Sacred Heart as fb-only schools and you have your minimum of 6 to get an AQ. Rhode Island seems like they should be an easy pick up for fb-only to get to 7.

Respectfully F that.

I am very for AE starting football but it's too late. MC and SHU are small time programs with small time stadiums.

CAA really taken a downturn, watch them replace UD with a MEAC program after UD leaves. Just watch.
Richmond going to the PL is a joke.
I'd love to speculate what could happen or what I wish could happen but in reality CAA football isn't going to change.

NEC will add them back in 2-3 years like they did RMU.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Respectfully F that.

I am very for AE starting football but it's too late. MC and SHU are small time programs with small time stadiums.

CAA really taken a downturn, watch them replace UD with a MEAC program after UD leaves. Just watch.
Richmond going to the PL is a joke.

CAA will likely invite Bryant in all sports, to replace Delaware. Bryant a football affiliate only. Fairfield seems to have been the apple of the CAA's eye for a while. Lots of rumors dating back to 2021. Weird that nothing has materialized in 10 years as far as Albany to the CAA in all sports.

Count me in as wanting Holy Cross to join the America East if a football conference comes about. Doing so might even prevent Bryant from leaving in all sports, if that's indeed coming.

This could be a decent football league:

UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Holy Cross, Fordham, Merrimack, Bryant, SHU

[aceinthehole]

CAA will likely invite Bryant in all sports, to replace Delaware. Bryant a football affiliate only. Fairfield seems to have been the apple of the CAA's eye for a while. Lots of rumors dating back to 2021. Weird that nothing has materialized in 10 years as far as Albany to the CAA in all sports.

Count me in as wanting Holy Cross to join the America East if a football conference comes about. Doing so might even prevent Bryant from leaving in all sports, if that's indeed coming.

This could be a decent football league:

UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Holy Cross, Fordham, Merrimack, Bryant, SHU


Despite what is going on in the CAA, America East Football is not happening. UNH, Maine, Albany, Bryant and URI are fine with their current football affiliation and are not pushing the AE to sponsor the sport.

Furthermore, America East is in a precarious position, only one step above the NEC. Multiple sports are at risk of losing the AQ if they have further defections - Volleyball, Softball, and M Swim are at the 6-team minimum today; Baseball, M/W Lax, and W Swim have just 7 participants)

If Albany, Bryant, or even UMBC left the AE for the CAA, they will have to look immediately to the NEC for a replacement (CCSU and LIU). The AE is a league that few schools want to join. Look at the schools to join the AE since Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra and Towson left - Bryant (NEC), NJIT (A-SUN), UMass-Lowell (D-II), UMBC (NEC), Albany/Bing/Stony Brook (D-II).

[UNHWildcat18]

Despite what is going on in the CAA, America East Football is not happening. UNH, Maine, Albany, Bryant and URI are fine with their current football affiliation and are not pushing the AE to sponsor the sport.

Furthermore, America East is in a precarious position, only one step above the NEC. Multiple sports are at risk of losing the AQ if they have further defections - Volleyball, Softball, and M Swim are at the 6-team minimum today; Baseball, M/W Lax, and W Swim have just 7 participants)

If Albany, Bryant, or even UMBC left the AE for the CAA, they will have to look immediately to the NEC for a replacement (CCSU and LIU). The AE is a league that few schools want to join. Look at the schools to join the AE since Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra and Towson left - Bryant (NEC), NJIT (A-SUN), UMass-Lowell (D-II), UMBC (NEC), Albany/Bing/Stony Brook (D-II).

I agree with the top statement as they are not looking to start football. Just sucks the conference has shifted so off course for football. I don't see our champ even making the semi finals.

I disagree with that last statement.

Albany/SBU/Bing are all R1 universities that are D1 flagship schools (IDGAF if people say buffalo and SBU are the two as of what 1 year ago??)- Id take them over Hofstra any day.
Lowell R2 about to be R1 university that plays second fiddle to flagship umass Amherst.
UMBC R1 university, who's above them? College park. Towson is a peer in terms of athletics.
NJIT R1 university. Yeah athletically needs improvement.
Bryant- investing a lot of money into athletics.

So overall I don't think SUNY's or UMBC for Hofstra/Towson/Drexel are a bad swap at all, they were too big and way outgrowing the NEC. Yeah some argument can be made about NJIT/Bryant.

[UNHWildcat18]

CAA will likely invite Bryant in all sports, to replace Delaware. Bryant a football affiliate only. Fairfield seems to have been the apple of the CAA's eye for a while. Lots of rumors dating back to 2021. Weird that nothing has materialized in 10 years as far as Albany to the CAA in all sports.

Count me in as wanting Holy Cross to join the America East if a football conference comes about. Doing so might even prevent Bryant from leaving in all sports, if that's indeed coming.

This could be a decent football league:

UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Holy Cross, Fordham, Merrimack, Bryant, SHU

I'd have no problem with HC if they wanted in but they will never leave the PL.
with travel costs and other things I just don't see Albany or Bryant leaving for the CAA. Just not worth it for another 1 bid league that is about to lose 1/3 flagship schools in UD. Their other is W&M and CofC..... CofC leaving is only a matter of time.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. Personally I think the CAA adding Bryant was the straw that broke the camel's back for both Delaware and Richmond leaving. I don't believe Richmond minded much about bus drives to Hampton or NCAT, but needing an extra road trip up North in that stadium was too much. Nothing about Bryant's program fits what the CAA wants its conference or what they want CAA football to be. Monmouth already was a tough ask, but they gritted their teeth and went with it, and their small stadium was nice and they get Jersey recruiting. Bryant was too much. Taking a second team that the Patriot League said 'no' to was too much.

2. I believe the CAA inviting Bryant in all sports would be a destabilizing event that might endanger William & Mary's continued involvement in the league. Again, being Bryant's conferencemate isn't what William & Mary signed up for.

3. Unless something really goes south, I don't see AEast football happening unless the CAA ceases to sponsor football, or something like that. The Northern schools like the extra at-large team the CAA provides them even when they don't play the top three teams in the league, and they only need to travel for one sport, football. It serves them better than any other option, and is easy.

4. The AEast and NEC will always be able to survive as long as there are small Northeast D-IIs with growing ambitions who want to move to Division I. Unless the NCAA or the SCOTUS does something to stop schools from trying to elevate to D-I/FCS, the AEast (hoops) and NEC (football) will be there to greet schools like Bentley, New Haven or WestConn.

[aceinthehole]

A couple of responses, as this thread has gotten a little sideways:

UNHWildcat 18 - My point was not to disparage the SUNYs, but to simply point out that at the time (2001) the 3 schools had 2 choices for D-I membership - the NEC or AE. They were not candidates for the CAA, Patriot, MAAC, etc. They were recent D-II/III schools upgrading. They have become very good D-I programs, but the AE had to replace 4 departing members and had to take call-ups. The AE has lost schools to the CAA, MAAC and Patriot but has only added schools from the NEC and D-II. That's the point - the AE is simply one notch ahead of the NEC, nothing more. No PL or CAA team is joining the AE in the future either.

Bryant to CAA Football did not cause Delaware to leave for FBS. That was happening regardless. Bryant was added to the football league to balance the full-time members from the Souther part of the footprint that played football. We went over this in another thread. UD approved all the additions made to the CAA and their interest in leaving was to join FBS and follow JMU, App State, etc.

Also, Bryant has never been rumored for a full CAA invite. They were lucky to get the CAA Football bid, but they are not a candidate (or even rumored) for full membership. Schools on the CAA 'short list' are High Point, Fairfield, Albany. I'd also guess Quinnipiac would have a better chance at a CAA invite than Bryant.

Yes, there are potentially some D-II available to get NEC invites, if needed - but absolutely not WestConn. That school may close/consolidate within the CT State Univ. System within the next 10 years. Schools like Bentley, New Haven are in the mix as well as maybe Gannon, West Chester.

[mainejeff]

The next ones out the CAA door may surprise some people.

[Go Green]

. MC and SHU are small time programs with small time stadiums.

.

Both have given Dartmouth all we can handle in recent years...

[Sitting Bull]

As a Tribe fan, I’m praying the CAA isn’t looking to add anyone else in football. In my view, Delaware and Richmond are both leaving the football association for new homes but neither in my view are really improvements over the CAA. I wouldn’t want to be following either one of them.

And it wasn’t Bryant that pushed them or broke the camels back. Let’s be honest, it was Hampton and NC A&T. Both the Richmond and Delaware press covered their dissatisfaction with these specific “new neighborhoods”. Neither of these entries came in from the MEAC, they came in from the Big South. Both have wanted something more than the HBCU bubble for years now. Like Campbell, I am fine seeing how they work out. I think they are ok adds and in the footprint.

On Bryant in football, I saw that primarily as a nod of pacification to the New England schools - so I have no issue with it myself. They add zero interest to W&M just as Hampton adds zero interest to a UNH. But you live with it for the bigger picture - in this case keeping URI, Maine, etc happy. In todays conference environment, it’s just new way of things. I really don’t think Oregon is crazy about playing Rutgers either on a similar big scale.

To me, the CAA needs no adds in football. We will be at 14 when UD and UR leave. You can build a sensible scheduling system on that. The only add I could see would be on the basketball/all sports side - to stay at 14 replacing UD. That to me will stick with either UAlbany joining for all sports or Fairfield joining (they are already any affiliate in men’s lax).

And just a note on College of Charleston. Their prez is the lead university liaison for the CAA and the commissioners biggest supporter. They’re not going anywhere.

[mainejeff]

As a Tribe fan, I’m praying the CAA isn’t looking to add anyone else in football. In my view, Delaware and Richmond are both leaving the football association for new homes but neither in my view are really improvements over the CAA. I wouldn’t want to be following either one of them.

And it wasn’t Bryant that pushed them or broke the camels back. Let’s be honest, it was Hampton and NC A&T. Both the Richmond and Delaware press covered their dissatisfaction with these specific “new neighborhoods”. Neither of these entries came in from the MEAC, they came in from the Big South. Both have wanted something more than the HBCU bubble for years now. Like Campbell, I am fine seeing how they work out. I think they are ok adds and in the footprint.

On Bryant in football, I saw that primarily as a nod of pacification to the New England schools - so I have no issue with it myself. They add zero interest to W&M just as Hampton adds zero interest to a UNH. But you live with it for the bigger picture - in this case keeping URI, Maine, etc happy. In todays conference environment, it’s just new way of things. I really don’t think Oregon is crazy about playing Rutgers either on a similar big scale.

To me, the CAA needs no adds in football. We will be at 14 when UD and UR leave. You can build a sensible scheduling system on that. The only add I could see would be on the basketball/all sports side - to stay at 14 replacing UD. That to me will stick with either UAlbany joining for all sports or Fairfield joining (they are already any affiliate in men’s lax).

And just a note on College of Charleston. Their prez is the lead university liaison for the CAA and the commissioners biggest supporter. They’re not going anywhere.

All good points. Honestly I feel like the CAA should have brought in Albany when they added Stony Brook. Not sure it happens now for numerous reasons.

I'm not sure that the A-10 is keen on Charleston....if they ever were. Their stock has dropped IMO.

The problem for all of the remaining members of CAA Football is that there really isn't anything that ties them all together.....the geography is more widely dispersed than it ever has been yet the quality of the remaining programs is shaky at best. You have the all sports members....W&M, Elon, NC A&T, Campbell, Hampton, Towson, Monmouth & Stony Brook.....that bunch looks pretty tight although I would not put it past Stony Brook to test the FBS waters if the opportunity came along.

The you have Albany, UNH, Maine & Bryant...all have America East ties + URI who has longstanding rivalries with UNH and Maine. Those 5 seem pretty solid.

And then you have Villanova....seemingly the most likely to bolt at this time.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All good points. Honestly I feel like the CAA should have brought in Albany when they added Stony Brook. Not sure it happens now for numerous reasons.

I'm not sure that the A-10 is keen on Charleston....if they ever were. Their stock has dropped IMO.

The problem for all of the remaining members of CAA Football is that there really isn't anything that ties them all together.....the geography is more widely dispersed than it ever has been yet the quality of the remaining programs is shaky at best. You have the all sports members....W&M, Elon, NC A&T, Campbell, Hampton, Towson, Monmouth & Stony Brook.....that bunch looks pretty tight although I would not put it past Stony Brook to test the FBS waters if the opportunity came along.

The you have Albany, UNH, Maine & Bryant...all have America East ties + URI who has longstanding rivalries with UNH and Maine. Those 5 seem pretty solid.

And then you have Villanova....seemingly the most likely to bolt at this time.

Do the Northeast, A-East, single sport members like the fact Bryant is in the league? One less road trip, I guess? Does URI like it? The move honestly smacks more of desperation than desire. But maybe they all stumped for it and went to bat for them.

Delaware, W&M didn't mind playing UNH, Maine, URI, UMass when they were a part of the A-10/CAA. Playing in front of 1,850 fans in Smithfield in Beirne stadium (capacity: 4,400) was clearly not the vision, though. That's not the same thing, and everyone knows it.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

A couple of responses, as this thread has gotten a little sideways:

UNHWildcat 18 - My point was not to disparage the SUNYs, but to simply point out that at the time (2001) the 3 schools had 2 choices for D-I membership - the NEC or AE. They were not candidates for the CAA, Patriot, MAAC, etc. They were recent D-II/III schools upgrading. They have become very good D-I programs, but the AE had to replace 4 departing members and had to take call-ups. The AE has lost schools to the CAA, MAAC and Patriot but has only added schools from the NEC and D-II. That's the point - the AE is simply one notch ahead of the NEC, nothing more. No PL or CAA team is joining the AE in the future either.

Bryant to CAA Football did not cause Delaware to leave for FBS. That was happening regardless. Bryant was added to the football league to balance the full-time members from the Souther part of the footprint that played football. We went over this in another thread. UD approved all the additions made to the CAA and their interest in leaving was to join FBS and follow JMU, App State, etc.

Also, Bryant has never been rumored for a full CAA invite. They were lucky to get the CAA Football bid, but they are not a candidate (or even rumored) for full membership. Schools on the CAA 'short list' are High Point, Fairfield, Albany. I'd also guess Quinnipiac would have a better chance at a CAA invite than Bryant.

Yes, there are potentially some D-II available to get NEC invites, if needed - but absolutely not WestConn. That school may close/consolidate within the CT State Univ. System within the next 10 years. Schools like Bentley, New Haven are in the mix as well as maybe Gannon, West Chester.

Ace,

Sadly, both of our schools have missed the boat in escaping this sunking ship. SFU's leadership (ADs and presidents) have failed it.

[DFW HOYA]

As a Tribe fan, I’m praying the CAA isn’t looking to add anyone else in football. In my view, Delaware and Richmond are both leaving the football association for new homes but neither in my view are really improvements over the CAA. I wouldn’t want to be following either one of them.

The CAA employs the "too big to fail" model--if they do not regularly expand, they would be defunct today.

The CAA will continue to look at opportunities from less stable conferences to build back after Delaware and Richmond, with an eye on what Villanova or even W&M would do if Richmond finds success in PL football. Depending on what becomes of the MEAC, a couple of those schools might be in the mix as well.

[dbackjon]

The next ones out the CAA door may surprise some people.

Which would be?

[WestCoastAggie]

Besides the obvious here, what about Hampton and NC A&T is unattractive to the leaving CAA members and those that are currently present?

Just lay it all out there.

[Sitting Bull]

The CAA employs the "too big to fail" model--if they do not regularly expand, they would be defunct today.

The CAA will continue to look at opportunities from less stable conferences to build back after Delaware and Richmond, with an eye on what Villanova or even W&M would do if Richmond finds success in PL football. Depending on what becomes of the MEAC, a couple of those schools might be in the mix as well.

I think they’ve been proactive successfully in that regard. It’s obviously worked. We’re here in a thread talking about the ineptness of the NEC and AE. You can complain about new members in the CAA all you want but there’s no question they’re still the top FCS football conference and very healthy/stable on the all sports side. And as far as any new members. I don’t think any or really necessary. On adding new members though, I think the CAA in part requires new members to show evidence of investment, facilities or other (i.e. Bryant).

On the PL for W&M, that’s a flat tire. I’m not sure on Villanova but the decision for both I think is going to imply a deemphasis on the football side, both quality and support. The CAA has 5 teams ranked in the top 25, the PL has none. On the support side, just look at the contrast below from this past weekend. It’s one of the reasons most Richmond fans are complaining. It’s also just as likely UR football conforms to PL levels as it would be UR maintains a CAA caliber program in years ahead.

Harvard 6,960 vs Holy Cross
Princeton 4,173 vs Brown
Yale 4,107 vs Lehigh
Colgate 4,059 vs Georgetown
Lafayette 3,217 vs Sacred Heart
Penn 2,970 vs Columbia
Dartmouth 2,573 vs Central Conn
Bucknell 1,245 vs Cornell

In contrast, below is the support for CAA games this weekend:

NC A&T 23,016 vs Hampton
W&M 12,138 vs Campbell
UNH 8,425 vs URI
UAlbany 7,204 vs Elon
Maine 6,860 vs Villanova
Richmond 5,382 vs Delaware
Towson 3,916 vs Stony Brook
Monmouth 2,852 vs Bryant

[aceinthehole]

As a Tribe fan, I’m praying the CAA isn’t looking to add anyone else in football. In my view, Delaware and Richmond are both leaving the football association for new homes but neither in my view are really improvements over the CAA. I wouldn’t want to be following either one of them.

And it wasn’t Bryant that pushed them or broke the camels back. Let’s be honest, it was Hampton and NC A&T. Both the Richmond and Delaware press covered their dissatisfaction with these specific “new neighborhoods”. Neither of these entries came in from the MEAC, they came in from the Big South. Both have wanted something more than the HBCU bubble for years now. Like Campbell, I am fine seeing how they work out. I think they are ok adds and in the footprint.

On Bryant in football, I saw that primarily as a nod of pacification to the New England schools - so I have no issue with it myself. They add zero interest to W&M just as Hampton adds zero interest to a UNH. But you live with it for the bigger picture - in this case keeping URI, Maine, etc happy. In todays conference environment, it’s just new way of things. I really don’t think Oregon is crazy about playing Rutgers either on a similar big scale.

To me, the CAA needs no adds in football. We will be at 14 when UD and UR leave. You can build a sensible scheduling system on that. The only add I could see would be on the basketball/all sports side - to stay at 14 replacing UD. That to me will stick with either UAlbany joining for all sports or Fairfield joining (they are already any affiliate in men’s lax).

And just a note on College of Charleston. Their prez is the lead university liaison for the CAA and the commissioners biggest supporter. They’re not going anywhere.

Well said about everything. I too think the next CAA addition comes down to High Point, Fairfield, or Albany - which one of these schools can get the votes?

[aceinthehole]

Do the Northeast, A-East, single sport members like the fact Bryant is in the league? One less road trip, I guess? Does URI like it? The move honestly smacks more of desperation than desire. But maybe they all stumped for it and went to bat for them.

Delaware, W&M didn't mind playing UNH, Maine, URI, UMass when they were a part of the A-10/CAA. Playing in front of 1,850 fans in Smithfield in Beirne stadium (capacity: 4,400) was clearly not the vision, though. That's not the same thing, and everyone knows it.

Huh? I think you are way off. The AE schools (and URI and likely even SBU and Monmouth) absolutely love the fact that Bryant is in CAA Football. The AE schools absolutely stumpped for Bryant, especially to offset the need for more games at Campbell, Hampton, NCAT.

Of course UD didn't really want to add Bryant (or any of the other additions) - but that's what they did for the league and that's not what "pushed" them out of the CAA. They have had one foot out the door for nearly a decade and were simply following their peers in UConn, UMass, JMU. They pull of FBS was more than the push of Bryant.

[aceinthehole]

Ace,

Sadly, both of our schools have missed the boat in escaping this sunking ship. SFU's leadership (ADs and presidents) have failed it.

We haven't missed the boat, as much as the schools both have significant issues holding them back. Furthermore, each school has just 1 option - MAAC or AE.

SFU - Biggest issue is geography. No one in the MAAC wants to drive out to Loretto. They already hate the Buffalo trip and don't want to add Western PA unless they have no choice. Sure, SFU overall is as good or better athletic program than Rider, St. Peter's, Canisius, or Niagara - but geography has always been your biggest enemy. And the MAAC is the only option, so unless they have a need after Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Siena, and Iona all find other conferences (unlikely), you will be stuck in the NEC forever. Wagner and even LeMoyne are ahead of SFU on the MAAC's list of options.

CCSU - Maintains an academic and perception problem. The AE is all R1 public universities, and CCSU is a comprehensive public more like West Chester (Penn) or Bridgewater State (Mass). They have hesitated to add a commuter school like us for decades. They picked Harford, SUNYs, UMBC, Lowell, NJIT and Bryant instead of us. We are the option of last resort (and they don't have any other R1 schools at D-II/D-I in the region willing to accept an invite), so that's our slim hope of an invite.

Bottom line I think both schools are stuck in the NEC - SFU likely forever and CCSU until Albany or someone else leaves the AE for the CAA.

[mainejeff]

Well said about everything. I too think the next CAA addition comes down to High Point, Fairfield, or Albany - which one of these schools can get the votes?

Out of those 3….I feel like Fairfield is the most likely.

[aceinthehole]

Out of those 3….I feel like Fairfield is the most likely.

I think it is an interesting dynamic and who knows what coalitions exist within the CAA that would be enough to formally invite any of these schools.

I would rank them High Point (favorite), Fairfield (close 2nd), and Albany (dark horse).

There was a lot of smoke around Fairfield and I'm not exactly sure what prevented their invite/acceptance. Something tells me that FU or the CAA still needs to be fully convinced that this is the right move.

High Point seems like the "hot school" and market. They would jump at the chance to leave the Big South. I think they are eagerly awaiting a call from the CAA.

Albany likely had the opportunity when SBU made the move and probably for good reasons neither side was fully comfortable at that time. Albany has a great gym now and would fit in well, but at a higher cost. I think they are happy where they are and see the AE as "good enough" but might not pass if they were really 'recruited' by the CAA.

[dbackjon]

High Point seems like the "hot school" and market. They would jump at the chance to leave the Big South. I think they are eagerly awaiting a call from the CAA.

.

But are they HOT HOT HOT?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Of course UD didn't really want to add Bryant (or any of the other additions) - but that's what they did for the league and that's not what "pushed" them out of the CAA. They have had one foot out the door for nearly a decade and were simply following their peers in UConn, UMass, JMU. They pull of FBS was more than the push of Bryant.

I would say this is related. The CAA used to be UConn, UMass, JMU and Delaware (the perceived class of FCS, decent stadiums, FCS/I-AA Champions, decent support at the FCS level). Now, they're Bryant, Monmouth, Campbell and Elon (middling-to-lower FCS programs, no FCS Champions, small stadiums for the most part).

Strange you would say they "did it for the league"... then left. xlolx

[aceinthehole]

I would say this is related. The CAA used to be UConn, UMass, JMU and Delaware (the perceived class of FCS, decent stadiums, FCS/I-AA Champions, decent support at the FCS level). Now, they're Bryant, Monmouth, Campbell and Elon (middling-to-lower FCS programs, no FCS Champions, small stadiums for the most part).

Strange you would say they "did it for the league"... then left. xlolx

Funny, UConn hasn't been in the YC/A-10 in 24 years and has a total of 1 NCAA playoffs appearance in their history. But they are a flagship University and have a National profile because of basketball. 😁

Yes, the legacy Yankee/A-10 Football is very different today and that absolutely is the reason why UD has left for FBS. But let's not pretend Bryant (or Hampton/NCAA) was the straw that broke the camel's back. The Hens move from the CAA was years in the making and was to keep up with the Boise, Marshall, ODU, App St, Georgia Southern, Sam Houston, as well - that's the point everyone has made. It's the bigger picture and NCAA landscape, no specific members of the CAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Funny, UConn hasn't been in the YC/A-10 in 24 years and has a total of 1 NCAA playoffs appearance in their history. But they are a flagship University and have a National profile because of basketball. 

Yes, the legacy Yankee/A-10 Football is very different today and that absolutely is the reason why UD has left for FBS. But let's not pretend Bryant (or Hampton/NCAA) was the straw that broke the camel's back. The Hens move from the CAA was years in the making and was to keep up with the Boise, Marshall, ODU, App St, Georgia Southern, Sam Houston, as well - that's the point everyone has made. It's the bigger picture and NCAA landscape, no specific members of the CAA.

You make a statement: The CAA/A-10/Yankee is different today. You make another statement: UD left because of this. Yet you ignore the why, and how. Is it because UMass and UConn and JMU left? Partially. Because is the CAA is taking schools like Bryant? Also part of the reason. UD going to Bryant doesn't give UD much, nor is Bryant going to excite UD fans.

Extend this to Richmond. The CAA/A-10/Yankee is different today. Richmond is leaving (partially) because of this. But the closest thing they've given to a reason other than that is that their home slate sucked and they didn't want to travel so far for so little, which in part would involve trips to the Northeast to play Bryant. If they absolutely had to, they'd much rather be going to hotbeds of recruiting like Pennsylvania, New Jersey with closer to peer institutions. Richmond and Bryant are not peer institutions.

Let's loop this back to the subject at hand. Sacred Heart and Merrimack leapt to the MAAC in all sports but have no plans for football. I don't know what SHU and Merrimack's football plans involve, but they had to be looking at Bryant and saying, "if Bryant, why not us?" They are looking at Monmouth and saying "man, that could be us!" and looking at Bryant and thinking, "they're just like Maine and UNH - America East, and CAA football!" They chose to cast off their NEC conference affiliation so very easily because the CAA seemed to be looking for warm bodies. The CAA's desperation has to be playing a part driving these questionable decisions from all of these schools.

CAA football (and to a lesser extent CAA all sports) has been going through an existential crisis now for a while. To their immense credit, they have always managed to survive. This dates from the YankCon days. But critical to their success in football and survival in general was success on the field. UMass was in the inaugural I-AA national championship game in 1978 and for decades the YankCon remnants were a massive force in I-AA/FCS. When UMass left, JMU rose. Villanova and Richmond rose and became FCS National Champions. Nowadays it's becoming harder and harder to squint at this CAA, watching a Campbell/Bryant conference game, and feel like "this is a battle between Top 25 FCS teams - I have to subscribe to Flo sports to see that!". I believe that had to play a part in both Richmond's and UD's decisions to leave literally just after Bryant was accepted as a football member.

August 10, 2023 - Bryant to join CAA football
Nov 28, 2023 - UD Announces They're Leaving CAA Football

[UNHWildcat18]

You make a statement: The CAA/A-10/Yankee is different today. You make another statement: UD left because of this. Yet you ignore the why, and how. Is it because UMass and UConn and JMU left? Partially. Because is the CAA is taking schools like Bryant? Also part of the reason. UD going to Bryant doesn't give UD much, nor is Bryant going to excite UD fans.

Extend this to Richmond. The CAA/A-10/Yankee is different today. Richmond is leaving (partially) because of this. But the closest thing they've given to a reason other than that is that their home slate sucked and they didn't want to travel so far for so little, which in part would involve trips to the Northeast to play Bryant. If they absolutely had to, they'd much rather be going to hotbeds of recruiting like Pennsylvania, New Jersey with closer to peer institutions. Richmond and Bryant are not peer institutions.

Let's loop this back to the subject at hand. Sacred Heart and Merrimack leapt to the MAAC in all sports but have no plans for football. I don't know what SHU and Merrimack's football plans involve, but they had to be looking at Bryant and saying, "if Bryant, why not us?" They are looking at Monmouth and saying "man, that could be us!" and looking at Bryant and thinking, "they're just like Maine and UNH - America East, and CAA football!" They chose to cast off their NEC conference affiliation so very easily because the CAA seemed to be looking for warm bodies. The CAA's desperation has to be playing a part driving these questionable decisions from all of these schools.

CAA football (and to a lesser extent CAA all sports) has been going through an existential crisis now for a while. To their immense credit, they have always managed to survive. This dates from the YankCon days. But critical to their success in football and survival in general was success on the field. UMass was in the inaugural I-AA national championship game in 1978 and for decades the YankCon remnants were a massive force in I-AA/FCS. When UMass left, JMU rose. Villanova and Richmond rose and became FCS National Champions. Nowadays it's becoming harder and harder to squint at this CAA, watching a Campbell/Bryant conference game, and feel like "this is a battle between Top 25 FCS teams - I have to subscribe to Flo sports to see that!". I believe that had to play a part in both Richmond's and UD's decisions to leave literally just after Bryant was accepted as a football member.

August 10, 2023 - Bryant to join CAA football
Nov 28, 2023 - UD Announces They're Leaving CAA Football

Definitely think there are some good points here but I definitely think the moves for Richmond and UD were in place before the Bryant addition(AE or not I wasn't wishing for it). Also Bryant may be not a desirable drive for southern schools but the same could be said for Campbell and Hampton for northern schools, Campbell is in the middle of nowhere and Hamptons stadium is an absolute dump.

[mainejeff]

Yeah...can we stop dumping on Bryant? They are actually doing some nice things facilities wise and their hoops programs are better than half of the CAA. They will get there in football....at least looking at it from a Northeast FCS perspective. And if you are going to drag them....you better drag Campbell, Hampton and NC A&T. The NC A&T fan base and game day might be great....but their team is the pits. Furthermore....I think that Richmond leaving was much more about the CAA's Southern additions than adding Bryant.

[WestCoastAggie]

Yeah...can we stop dumping on Bryant? They are actually doing some nice things facilities wise and their hoops programs are better than half of the CAA. They will get there in football....at least looking at it from a Northeast FCS perspective. And if you are going to drag them....you better drag Campbell, Hampton and NC A&T. The NC A&T fan base and game day might be great....but their team is the pits. Furthermore....I think that Richmond leaving was much more about the CAA's Southern additions than adding Bryant.

Now why do you have to bring up our dumpster fire right now!?

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

You make a statement: The CAA/A-10/Yankee is different today. You make another statement: UD left because of this. Yet you ignore the why, and how. Is it because UMass and UConn and JMU left? Partially. Because is the CAA is taking schools like Bryant? Also part of the reason. UD going to Bryant doesn't give UD much, nor is Bryant going to excite UD fans.

Extend this to Richmond. The CAA/A-10/Yankee is different today. Richmond is leaving (partially) because of this. But the closest thing they've given to a reason other than that is that their home slate sucked and they didn't want to travel so far for so little, which in part would involve trips to the Northeast to play Bryant. If they absolutely had to, they'd much rather be going to hotbeds of recruiting like Pennsylvania, New Jersey with closer to peer institutions. Richmond and Bryant are not peer institutions.

Let's loop this back to the subject at hand. Sacred Heart and Merrimack leapt to the MAAC in all sports but have no plans for football. I don't know what SHU and Merrimack's football plans involve, but they had to be looking at Bryant and saying, "if Bryant, why not us?" They are looking at Monmouth and saying "man, that could be us!" and looking at Bryant and thinking, "they're just like Maine and UNH - America East, and CAA football!" They chose to cast off their NEC conference affiliation so very easily because the CAA seemed to be looking for warm bodies. The CAA's desperation has to be playing a part driving these questionable decisions from all of these schools.

CAA football (and to a lesser extent CAA all sports) has been going through an existential crisis now for a while. To their immense credit, they have always managed to survive. This dates from the YankCon days. But critical to their success in football and survival in general was success on the field. UMass was in the inaugural I-AA national championship game in 1978 and for decades the YankCon remnants were a massive force in I-AA/FCS. When UMass left, JMU rose. Villanova and Richmond rose and became FCS National Champions. Nowadays it's becoming harder and harder to squint at this CAA, watching a Campbell/Bryant conference game, and feel like "this is a battle between Top 25 FCS teams - I have to subscribe to Flo sports to see that!". I believe that had to play a part in both Richmond's and UD's decisions to leave literally just after Bryant was accepted as a football member.

August 10, 2023 - Bryant to join CAA football
Nov 28, 2023 - UD Announces They're Leaving CAA Football

Sacred Heart and Merrimack, like UConn, were willing to sacrifice football for basketball to gain access to a superior roundball conference. That was the plan. If CAA football bails them out; extra credit. The NEC is that toxic and regressive.

As I said in the bumped MAAC football thread: Northeastern FCS football suffered a huge loss when those teams dropped their teams. The Ivy isn't letting anyone in and the Patriot finally allowed an outside member.

The situation was: let all your programs degrade in the NEC or flourish in the MAAC while football plays the 40 years in the wilderness of FCS independence.

[mainejeff]

Now why do you have to bring up our dumpster fire right now!?

Hey...I gave props to your fan base and game day experience!:)

[WestCoastAggie]

Hey...I gave props to your fan base and game day experience!:)

This fanbase is going to glitch out if we can't somehow get a victory on Saturday. Someone may even try to fight the AD at the Alumni Town Hall next week otherwise.