Burress: Our Receivers Are Better Then Patriots

[UNHWildCats]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22857265/

[blackfordpu]

Nothing wrong with confidence in your teammates.

[Dane96]

And Tom Brady was no Tom Brady until his playoff runs....

[TheValleyRaider]

“We have guys that can go out and do things just as well or maybe better than some of those guys,” he said last week.

Sounds perfectly true to me. He doesn't say "I'm better than Randy Moss." He doesn't say "They can't catch like us." He said some of the Giants' WR are better than some of the Pats WRs. Watch for Steve Smith to have a big impact xnodx

[Cleets]

I like a guy who backs his team mates...!!!
Nobody on the Patriots cared about his enthusiasm, it'll be a non-issue, they know he's pumping his guys up...

The Giants can win that game..!!! xnodx

I don't want them to, but they sure have the talent to do it..

[seantaylor]

Welker is better than Burress.

[Peems]

Welker is better than Burress.

Now that is xlolx

[Cleets]

Welker is better than Burress.

They do slightly different jobs... Welker is one of the best slot guys in football and Burress is one of the best outside guys in the game, you really couldn't "swap" them on the field... if anything Burress could play slot more easily than Welker could go deep...

(Just my 2 cents) You need both of those kind (one each) to run the patriots style of offense...

xpeacex

[UNHWildCats]

And Tom Brady was no Tom Brady until his playoff runs....
Tom Brady was Tom Brady from day 1.

[Peems]

Tom Brady was Tom Brady from day 1.

Then why wasn't he drafted on day 1?:p

[CatFan22]

Tom Brady wouldn't be anything if not for the "tuck rule" bull**** against the Raiders in the playoffs.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Tom Brady wouldn't be anything if not for the "tuck rule" bull**** against the Raiders in the playoffs.

I'm Raiders and Pats fan and that call never irked me one way or another. It was a screwy rule but it was the correct call. Tom Brady is a fantastic QB and he deserves the praise he gets.

On a side note i never understood why people get bent out of shape when an opposing player says they'll would win or they're better at this or that. You have to say that.

[UNHWildCats]

I'm Raiders and Pats fan and that call never irked me one way or another. It was a screwy rule but it was the correct call. Tom Brady is a fantastic QB and he deserves the praise he gets.

On a side note i never understood why people get bent out of shape when an opposing player says they'll would win or they're better at this or that. You have to say that.


If they want to claim there an overall better team, whatever fine, it will be proven one way or the other.

But to come out and say their receivers are better then the Pats? I mean seriously, the Patriots all time career leading receiver is #6 on the depth chart at the position.

If he wants to come out and say their running game is better the New Englands, fine he can say that cause its probably true.

[TheValleyRaider]

If they want to claim there an overall better team, whatever fine, it will be proven one way or the other.

But to come out and say their receivers are better then the Pats?

What's the difference? xeyebrowx


If he wants to come out and say their running game is better the New Englands, fine he can say that cause its probably true.

Not "probably", it is :D

[Peems]

The thing is he never flat out said what you are claiming he did

[UNHWildCats]

Over the past four games for each team to show who may have the better running game at the moment, New York hyas rushed the ball 111 times for 403 yards or a 3.6 ypc.

New England has also run it 111 times but for 534 yards or 4.8 ypc.

On the season NYG rank 4th at 134.2 yards per game while the Patriots who managed to set several passing records still came in 13th averaging 115.6 yards per game.

Obviously down the stretch when the Patriots began to run more the numbers were better...

I dont think either team is a clear cut better running team, though I would give the Giants a slight edge

[Peems]

Over the past four games for each team to show who may have the better running game at the moment, New York hyas rushed the ball 111 times for 403 yards or a 3.6 ypc.

New England has also run it 111 times but for 534 yards or 4.8 ypc.

On the season NYG rank 4th at 134.2 yards per game while the Patriots who managed to set several passing records still came in 13th averaging 115.6 yards per game.

Obviously down the stretch when the Patriots began to run more the numbers were better...

I dont think either team is a clear cut better running team, though I would give the Giants a slight edge

I'd give the QB edge to the Giants...

























































:D ;)

[UNHWildCats]

I'd give the QB edge to the Giants...

























































:D ;)
thats some mighty good weed ur smoking huh xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Dane96]

Tom Brady was Tom Brady from day 1.

Don't know what you were watching...not the same Pats team that I watched.

[Dane96]

Tom Brady wouldn't be anything if not for the "tuck rule" bull**** against the Raiders in the playoffs.

Thank you for this dose of reality. I was partying my ass off (it was a buddy's bday) at Avalon...where they had the club basically not listening to music...but staring at the huge screens they brought in.

Let's not kid ourselves, Brady is a great QB...but he was not the Tom Brady we know for Day 1.

Anyone thinking otherwise is well...A NEW ENGLAND SPORTS FAN-- Hello rose colored glasses.

[Dane96]

Over the past four games for each team to show who may have the better running game at the moment, New York hyas rushed the ball 111 times for 403 yards or a 3.6 ypc.

New England has also run it 111 times but for 534 yards or 4.8 ypc.

On the season NYG rank 4th at 134.2 yards per game while the Patriots who managed to set several passing records still came in 13th averaging 115.6 yards per game.

Obviously down the stretch when the Patriots began to run more the numbers were better...

I dont think either team is a clear cut better running team, though I would give the Giants a slight edge

Rush Defense of Giant Playoff Opponents (including the Patriot game that you included in your last 4 games):

1. New England
2. Green Bay
3. Dallas
18. Tampa Bay

Average rank: 6

Rush Defense of New England Playoff Opponents:

7. Jacksonville
16. Giants
20. San Diego

Average rank: 14.3

[UNHWildCats]

Rush Defense of Giant Playoff Opponents (including the Patriot game that you included in your last 4 games):

1. New England
2. Green Bay
3. Dallas
18. Tampa Bay

Average rank: 6

Rush Defense of New England Playoff Opponents:

7. Jacksonville
16. Giants
20. San Diego

Average rank: 14.3

your posting rankings based solely on playoff stats. Let's look at the rush defenses over the course of the entire 2007 season.

Dallas #6
New England #10
Tampa Bay #17
Green Bay #14


Jacksonville #11
NY Giants #8
San Diego #16

[UNHWildCats]

Thank you for this dose of reality. I was partying my ass off (it was a buddy's bday) at Avalon...where they had the club basically not listening to music...but staring at the huge screens they brought in.

Let's not kid ourselves, Brady is a great QB...but he was not the Tom Brady we know for Day 1.

Anyone thinking otherwise is well...A NEW ENGLAND SPORTS FAN-- Hello rose colored glasses.
Brady has beeen winning games since he first took the field for the Patriots. So how is he not the Tom Brady we have known since day 1?

[TheValleyRaider]

Tom Brady wouldn't be anything if not for the "tuck rule" bull**** against the Raiders in the playoffs.

He'd still be a good QB, but the "legend" of Brady and Belichick would probably look a little different xnodx

[Dane96]

your posting rankings based solely on playoff stats. Let's look at the rush defenses over the course of the entire 2007 season.

Dallas #6
New England #10
Tampa Bay #17
Green Bay #14


Jacksonville #11
NY Giants #8
San Diego #16

HERE ARE YOUR WORDS TRAVIS:

"Over the past four games for each team to show who may have the better running game at the moment, New York hyas rushed the ball 111 times for 403 yards or a 3.6 ypc."

I mean really...are you kidding me buddy?

For one-- the present counts...not the past. FOR TWO....jeesh...you are the one who quoted last 4 games to see which team was better. By statistical comparison your premise fails.

[UNHWildCats]

HERE ARE YOUR WORDS TRAVIS:

"Over the past four games for each team to show who may have the better running game at the moment, New York hyas rushed the ball 111 times for 403 yards or a 3.6 ypc."

I mean really...are you kidding me buddy?

For one-- the present counts...not the past. FOR TWO....jeesh...you are the one who quoted last 4 games to see which team was better. By statistical comparison your premise fails.

IF you want to judge the rush defenses based on the same time frame of course the giants opponents will have better rankings cause the Giants running game has been bad...

two of the Giants playoff opponents rankings include nothing but the Giants game if just using the ranking based solely on the playoffs.

thye best way to judge the performances of the past 4 games is to use the accumulated stats over the past four games against the defense of the whole season that way its all evened out.

[Dane96]

No travis...that is the TOTAL season statistical stats taken from the NFL. that is their CURRENT ranking. It isn't a snapshot...but rather total performance.

Your really think the Pats gaining 100 more yards in the same 4 games would make those teams they played dropped nearly 8 spots below the same team the Giants played.

Come on man...drop it. Heck, even the Boston media people aren't saying that the Pats have a better run game...in fact, they are saying that the Pats will need to vary it up because the Giants are so good against the run...and the Giants on offense will try to slow the game down with a methodical and talented run attack.

[UNHWildCats]

NO the rankings you gave were for post season only. The nfl.com rankings are set to show up for postseason stats, you need to select regular season on the pull down menu.

[UNHWildCats]

No travis...that is the TOTAL season statistical stats taken from the NFL. that is their CURRENT ranking. It isn't a snapshot...but rather total performance.

Your really think the Pats gaining 100 more yards in the same 4 games would make those teams they played dropped nearly 8 spots below the same team the Giants played.

Come on man...drop it. Heck, even the Boston media people aren't saying that the Pats have a better run game...in fact, they are saying that the Pats will need to vary it up because the Giants are so good against the run...and the Giants on offense will try to slow the game down with a methodical and talented run attack.
MSNBC is saying the patriots have a slight edge in the running game.

And i never said the Patriots have the better running game, i did say its a close race between the two and have admitted the Giants are probably slightly better.

Overall though that is skewed by the fact that the Patriots for a good chunk of the season barely ran the ball, but when they have they have been very effective.

[Dane96]

MSNBC- A political channel commenting on sports.

Great use of source.

[UNHWildCats]

actually the website which is powered by NBC Sports.

[Dane96]

Yeah...I am not dumb. Still, focus is not sport oriented.

[UNHWildCats]

Yeah...I am not dumb. Still, focus is not sport oriented.
xrolleyesx

[TheValleyRaider]

MSNBC is saying the patriots have a slight edge in the running game.

Who said that? xconfusedx

[UNHWildCats]

they had a thing comparing all the matchups.... they favored the Pats slightly on the running game... they also let the fans vote and the fans favored the Pats everywhere but DL

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Thank you for this dose of reality. I was partying my ass off (it was a buddy's bday) at Avalon...where they had the club basically not listening to music...but staring at the huge screens they brought in.

Let's not kid ourselves, Brady is a great QB...but he was not the Tom Brady we know for Day 1.

Anyone thinking otherwise is well...A NEW ENGLAND SPORTS FAN-- Hello rose colored glasses.

Brady was Brady from the very beginning. When Bledsoe got injured against the Jets that year they were a bumbling team. Brady made that team better the second he stepped on the field. Belichek would not have won 3 Super Bowls without Tom Brady. Brady is Walsh's Montana plain and simple. He had 18-12 in 2001 in 15 games which for a second year player is solid. He also helped lead me to a fantasy football title that year.

I was one of the original Pats bandwagoner back in 1994 when they got good. I always remembered them being terrible when i was a young kid. This was also around the same time the Raiders began to slip. They traded Allen and "true Raider" guys started to retire, they were starting to become the Raiders of now. Plus living in the Northeast they were on more so it was much easier to be a true fan. I still like the Raiders though, still my left coast team..lol

[LacesOut]

As an Eagles fan, I would take either teams WR corps over the current Eagle ones!

[Peems]

As an Eagles fan, I would take either teams WR corps over the current Eagle ones!

Cmon Greg Lewis is the man!!!

www.glew83.com

[UNHWildCats]

ya had Freddie Mitchell too.... turns out he was better at running his mouth then catching the ball :p

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3360/freddie20mitchell8hv.jpg

[813Jag]

ya had Freddie Mitchell too.... turns out he was better at running his mouth then catching the ball :p

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3360/freddie20mitchell8hv.jpg
Lakeland, Florida's finest. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Dane96]

Brady was Brady from the very beginning. When Bledsoe got injured against the Jets that year they were a bumbling team. Brady made that team better the second he stepped on the field. Belichek would not have won 3 Super Bowls without Tom Brady. Brady is Walsh's Montana plain and simple. He had 18-12 in 2001 in 15 games which for a second year player is solid. He also helped lead me to a fantasy football title that year.

I was one of the original Pats bandwagoner back in 1994 when they got good. I always remembered them being terrible when i was a young kid. This was also around the same time the Raiders began to slip. They traded Allen and "true Raider" guys started to retire, they were starting to become the Raiders of now. Plus living in the Northeast they were on more so it was much easier to be a true fan. I still like the Raiders though, still my left coast team..lol

Montana was a great QB because of the system and his smarts...not his arm strength.

That being said, check Brady's rating for the first three years...than come back to me.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Montana was a great QB because of the system and his smarts...not his arm strength.

That being said, check Brady's rating for the first three years...than come back to me.

Just looked at Brady's rating for his first 3 years and i'm not sure what your point is. Looks pretty good to me and basically on par with Montana's numbers. Montana had a slightly higher completion % but Brady had a much better TD/Int ratio his first 3 years.

2001 86.5
2002 85.7
2003 85.9

Montana's
1980 87.8
1983 88.4
1982 88

[UNHWildCats]

Just looked at Brady's rating for his first 3 years and i'm not sure what your point is. Looks pretty good to me and basically on par with Montana's numbers. Montana had a slightly higher completion % but Brady had a much better TD/Int ratio his first 3 years.

2001 86.5
2002 85.7
2003 85.9

Montana's
1980 87.8
1983 88.4
1982 88
Its not worth arguing with him, he's just a Patriot hater.

[Dane96]

Just looked at Brady's rating for his first 3 years and i'm not sure what your point is. Looks pretty good to me and basically on par with Montana's numbers. Montana had a slightly higher completion % but Brady had a much better TD/Int ratio his first 3 years.

2001 86.5
2002 85.7
2003 85.9

Montana's
1980 87.8
1983 88.4
1982 88

Now go ask those in the NFL...not the fans...if Montana was great or very good made great by system.

You will be suprised by the answer. There is a reason Chad "I am injured every day" Pennington was compared to Joe M- Both noodle arms, both not big guys, both cerebral. It is also the reason the Jets ran/run the West Coast. You will see this change with Pennington a backup. We will go to the Pats offense.

Don't get me wrong...I think Tom Brady is great...I think Montana is great...but I dont think they blew the doors off from the get go.

THAT...is my point.

Furthermore, the QB's were in two completely different systems. Again, Montana was made great because he utilized the West Coast Offense (Bill Walsh's style)- using high percentage, short slanting passes and running backs as receivers.

The Pats run the Earhardt-Perkins System which is smash mouth football setting up the pass via play action. This year, the Pats have opened this system up a bit becauses of Welker, Moss, and Stallworth.

Completely useless to compare the two.

[Dane96]

Again, not a Pats or Jints fan...just one sick of New England fans claming GREATNESS for all their teams.

Humility...

You know the REAL IRONIC thing-- Pats fans LOVE to rip Payton Manning as not being great. Well, according to the stats, he is better than MONTANA and BRADY out of the water from DAY 2: You cant count his 71 in his rookie year because unlke the other two...Indy was clearly a HORRIBLE team! In fact, you take that one 71 out...and his numbers are obscene.

[UNHWildCats]

Championships are a big part of greatness. Manning is a playoff chocker.

[Dane96]

Right...typical Pats fan.

Was Marino great?

[UNHWildCats]

sure but he doesnt enter the argument of 5 greatest QBS ever

[Dane96]

So who does...I am dying to hear this.

[Dane96]

And more to the point though, if Brady wasn't on a stacked Pats team...puts up the same numbers...and doesnt win championships or doesnt do so til later in his career or at the end (e.g. Favre and Elway) would he still be considered great?!

Part B: Were Elway, Favre, and countless others like him great from the get go even though they didnt win titles early on?

Part C: Is Dilfer great because he won a Super Bowl. How about Kurt Warner-- he put up great numbers...but is he great.

Part D: Is Joe Namath great? As a Jet fan I would say absolute not-- but he put up nice numbers and won probably one of the most important Super Bowls ever.

Fact is, to say Brady was great from the get is absurd. Brady did not have to carry his team. Payton, Favre, Elway, Aikman, they had to carry their teams early on.

Is he great now- Most certainly.

[UNHWildCats]

in no particular order....

Elway, Montana, Brady, Manning (cause he did finally get 1), Favre, Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr, Unitas

They all have a claim to the top 5....

My top 5 in no particular order is

Montana
Brady
Elway
Unitas
Favre or Bradshaw (cant decide)

[Dane96]

Ok...I agree for the most part with your list.

Now go answer my questions.

It specifically boils down to: WAS TOM BRADY GREAT FROM THE START.

Arguably, NO QB is great from the start...and if any were...it was/were the QB who carried his team when they were shyte.

If you take those players above...and take them off the team early in the careers...do those teams still win football games.

Arguably, the Pats would have won football games...lots of 'em in Tom's first years.

Can't say the same about Elway, Marino, Favre, Manning, etc.

[UNHWildCats]

And more to the point though, if Brady wasn't on a stacked Pats team...puts up the same numbers...and doesnt win championships or doesnt do so til later in his career or at the end (e.g. Favre and Elway) would he still be considered great?!

Part B: Were Elway, Favre, and countless others like him great from the get go even though they didnt win titles.

Part C: Is Dilfer great because he won a Super Bowl. How about Kurt Warner-- he put up great numbers...but is he great.

Fact is, to say Payton was great from the get is absurd.

Is he great now- Most certainly.
a Super Bowl win dont make you great, but you need one to be among the greatest.

[UNHWildCats]

Ok...I agree for the most part with your list.

Now go answer my questions.

It specifically boils down to: WAS TOM BRADY GREAT FROM THE START.

Arguably, NO QB is great from the start...and if any were...it was/were the QB who carried his team when they were shyte.

If you take those players above...and take them off the team early in the careers...do those teams still win football games.

Arguably, the Pats would have won football games...lots of 'em in Tom's first years.

Can't say the same about Elway, Marino, Favre, Manning, etc.
yes he was because he did from the start what a QB's job is to do and thats to lead your team to wins...

Had Brady not won a SB and didnt have the 2007 season he had (Which an argument can be made that if he had the weapons Manning has had most of his career he would have similar career numbers to Manning... not that their 7 year splits are that far off.) he wouldnt be greta, just an above average QB, but he has lead them to wins and Super Bowl wins and when he finally had a WR group that rivals what Manning had for so many years he put up Manning type numbers.

[Peems]

To not have Brett Favre on the top 5 is absurd. He owns every major all time passing stat, and carried his team this year and in the years they made to the superbowl.

[Dane96]

Peems...if you haven't noticed...Travis' arguments are totally absurd. I have been TIC this whole thread.

So Travis, if the tuck play doesnt happen...then Brady would not have been great...RIGHT?

[UNHWildCats]

Peems...if you haven't noticed...Travis' arguments are totally absurd. I have been TIC this whole thread.

So Travis, if the tuck play doesnt happen...then Brady would not have been great...RIGHT?
He still won the Super Bowl 2 other times, soon to be three other times.... you can hardly say the tuck rule made his career.

[mlbowl]

and when he finally had a WR group that rivals what Manning had for so many years he put up Manning type numbers.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe those receivers are great BECAUSE of Manning???

[Dane96]

Travis doesn't stop to think-- He is a Pats fan. :)

Travis, the question posed was IF he did not win the Super Bowl, by getting their virtue of a VERY debatable call...would he have been considered great from DAY 1 as another poster suggested and you agreed with?

Answer this simple question. Based on your other answers...it would be NO!

Furthermore, he was surrounded by great players. Payton Manning's teams were TERRIBLE...at best.

[CopperCat]

Plaxico is just a diet coke version of TO: mouthy and stupid. But he can play, just like TO. Too bad he can't back up what he said, because NY's receivers aren't as good as NE's are. And baby Manning can't throw as well as Brady can either.

And Plaxico is on the top of the list for dumbest name.

[seantaylor]

Welker was easily the best receiver on the field. Randy Moss is the biggest pussy in the NFL. Alligator arms, takes every play off that he is not involved with. He has been riding Brady's coat tails all year.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Plaxico is just a diet coke version of TO: mouthy and stupid. But he can play, just like TO. Too bad he can't back up what he said, because NY's receivers aren't as good as NE's are. And baby Manning can't throw as well as Brady can either.

And Plaxico is on the top of the list for dumbest name.

Just ate all the words he saidxlolx

[Cleets]

Just ate all the words he saidxlolx

You'll find that to be "Par for the Course" with FTG06... xlolx

[dbackjon]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22857265/


They may have good recievers, but Manning is no Tom Brady.


Welker is better than Burress.

xconfusedx xconfusedx

[spelunker64]

Welker would have been the MVP in my book had the Pats won

[dbackjon]

Welker would have been the MVP in my book had the Pats won

Indeed.

[Gil Dobie]

Time to update the song again for Mr Moss
Oh Randy Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7ipVezSEk)

[Cleets]

I like a guy who backs his team mates...!!!
Nobody on the Patriots cared about his enthusiasm, it'll be a non-issue, they know he's pumping his guys up...

The Giants can win that game..!!! xnodx

I don't want them to, but they sure have the talent to do it..


Speaking of eating crow...
As I search back through what I said... boy am I glad I said this (see above) xlolx