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AGSPoll
September 16th, 2024, 12:36 PM
9/16/2024



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1162
37


2
Montana State Bobcats
1099
5


3
Idaho Vandals
1077
4


4
North Dakota State Bison
1036
1


5
South Dakota Coyotes
908



6
Villanova Wildcats
895



7
Southern Illinois Salukis
850



8
Montana Grizzlies
835



9
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
827



10
Central Arkansas Bears
780



11
Sac State Hornets
691



12
Mercer Bears
619



13
UC Davis Aggies
617



14
William & Mary Tribe
576



15
Lafayette Leopards
371



16
Incarnate Word Cardinals
345



17
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
314



18T
Chattanooga Mocs
258



18T
Illinois State Redbirds
258



20
Tarleton Texans
195



21
Abilene Christian Wildcats
151



22
Richmond Spiders
139



23
Wofford Terriers
138



24
Western Carolina Catamounts
123



25
Furman Paladins
119
















ORV:




26
Rhode Island Rams
113



27
Albany Great Danes
102



28
East Tennessee State Buccaneers
100



29
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
97



30T
New Hampshire Wildcats
67



30T
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
67



32
Northern Iowa Panthers
61



33
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
52



34
Nicholls Colonels
45



35
Lamar Cardinals
38



36
Florida A&M Rattlers
28



37
Elon Phoenix
16



38
Yale Bulldogs
14



39T
Campbell Fighting Camels
12



39T
Harvard Crimson
12



39T
Weber State Wildcats
12



39T
Youngstown State Penguins
12
















Most Significant Win:
Mercer Bears






Most Significant Loss:
Youngstown State Penguins

KPSUL
September 16th, 2024, 12:46 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: Southern Illinois Salukis
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Sac State Hornets
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Mercer Bears
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Rhode Island Rams
19: Illinois State Redbirds
20: Northern Iowa Panthers
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Wofford Terriers
23: Harvard Crimson
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: Florida A&M Rattlers


I made close to this same post on the STATS Poll Thread, unfortunately, it seems appropriate here also:

I'm simply not going to rank an 0-3 team. Chattanooga has played reasonably well vs 1 lower tier P5 FBS opponent and what appears to be a very good Mercer team. But starting the season with two FBS games is their own choice and it is plain stupid. You need to show you can beat teams in your own subdivision, and they haven't proven that yet. There should be no prizes for just trying hard in Division 1 college football.

Go Lehigh TU Owl
September 16th, 2024, 12:54 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: North Dakota State Bison
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Villanova Wildcats
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Mercer Bears
11: Montana Grizzlies
12: Tarleton Texans
13: Lafayette Leopards
14: Chattanooga Mocs
15: Yale Bulldogs
16: Incarnate Word Cardinals
17: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
18: UC Davis Aggies
19: William & Mary Tribe
20: Sac State Hornets
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Lamar Cardinals
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Harvard Crimson
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

ursus arctos horribilis
September 16th, 2024, 01:00 PM
I think you guys are giving Idaho a proper amount of respect. They are such a fundamentally sound team right now I think they are the best team in the BSC if not the country.

In spite of losses of personnel they look better to me than they ever have.

POD Knows
September 16th, 2024, 01:03 PM
Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/15/2024 9:02:35

Your vote is listed below.


1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
6: North Dakota State Bison
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: South Dakota Coyotes
11: Sac State Hornets
12: UC Davis Aggies
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Mercer Bears
15: Chattanooga Mocs
16: Richmond Spiders
17: Wofford Terriers
18: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
19: Lafayette Leopards
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: Illinois State Redbirds
22: Tarleton Texans
23: Rhode Island Rams
24: Western Carolina Catamounts
25: Abilene Christian Wildcats

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Rhode Island Rams
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Bisonator
September 16th, 2024, 01:06 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: Southern Illinois Salukis
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Sac State Hornets
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Mercer Bears
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Rhode Island Rams
19: Illinois State Redbirds
20: Northern Iowa Panthers
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Wofford Terriers
23: Harvard Crimson
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: Florida A&M Rattlers


I made close to this same post on the STATS Poll Thread, unfortunately, it seems appropriate here also:

I'm simply not going to rank an 0-3 team. Chattanooga has played reasonably well vs 1 lower tier P5 FBS opponent and what appears to be a very good Mercer team. But starting the season with two FBS games is their own choice and it is plain stupid. You need to show you can beat teams in your own subdivision, and they haven't proven that yet. There should be no prizes for just trying hard in Division 1 college football.

What's your reasoning behind #7 and #8 ordering? Help me understand why Montana should be ahead of the team that beat them?

Professor Chaos
September 16th, 2024, 01:10 PM
This week's top 25 article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-3-top-25-results-5/

Some firsts in the UAC as Abilene Christian makes their first ever appearance in the AGS Top 25 and Tarleton has their highest ranking ever in the AGS Poll at #20. Some pretty friendly placement of the SOCON amongst the consensus IMO. How Western Carolina is ranked ahead of Rhode Island is pretty baffling to me (WCU lost to Campbell and URI just beat them). I also think there's plenty of teams that are more deserving than Furman for that #25 spot but they were #26 last week so I guess it's not that crazy. Chattanooga still comfortably inside the top 25 at 0-3 is a little eye opening as well (although I still had them in my top 25 ballot as well). 5 of 9 SOCON teams are now ranked in the AGS Top 25.

POD Knows
September 16th, 2024, 01:12 PM
This week's top 25 article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-3-top-25-results-5/

Some first in the UAC as Abilene Christian makes their first every appearance in the AGS Top 25 and Tarleton has their highest ranking ever in the AGS Poll at #20. Some pretty friendly placement of the SOCON amongst the consensus IMO. How Western Carolina is ranked ahead of Rhode Island is pretty baffling to me (WCU lost to Campbell and URI just beat them). I also think there's plenty of teams that are more deserving than Furman for that #25 spot but they were #26 last week so I guess it's not that crazy. Chattanooga still comfortably inside the top 25 at 0-3 is a little eye opening as well (although I still had them in my top 25 ballot as well. 5 of 9 SOCON teams are now ranked in the AGS Top 25.Furmans ranking in the AGS poll is a joke at this point in time.

Professor Chaos
September 16th, 2024, 01:14 PM
Here's what I had:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Southern Illinois Salukis
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Villanova Wildcats
10: Mercer Bears
11: UC Davis Aggies
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Central Arkansas Bears
14: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Lafayette Leopards
17: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
18: Rhode Island Rams
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Illinois State Redbirds
22: New Hampshire Wildcats
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: Lamar Cardinals
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

ElCid
September 16th, 2024, 01:14 PM
What's your reasoning behind #7 and #8 ordering? Help me understand why Montana should be ahead of the team that beat them?

You mean like the actual poll and Wofford and Richmond? Lol.

Chalupa Batman
September 16th, 2024, 01:14 PM
For your viewing pleasure:

1: Idaho Vandals
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: Mercer Bears
7: South Dakota Coyotes
8: North Dakota State Bison
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: William & Mary Tribe
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
13: Sac State Hornets
14: Southern Illinois Salukis
15: UC Davis Aggies
16: Incarnate Word Cardinals
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Abilene Christian Wildcats
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Elon Phoenix
23: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Rhode Island Rams

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins

Bisonator
September 16th, 2024, 01:20 PM
You mean like the actual poll and Wofford and Richmond? Lol.

I can see it happening when its a bunch of different voters ranking teams but how do you do it on your ballot knowing full well which team won the head to head? I mean seriously if you are ranking them together the winner should get the nod should they not??

Professor Chaos
September 16th, 2024, 01:22 PM
You mean like the actual poll and Wofford and Richmond? Lol.
Good point - missed that one in my critiques. Some pretty lazy voting amonst the bottom of the top 25 in the consensus IMO. I don't think Richmond, WCU, or Furman should be ranked. Rhode Island, Lamar, New Hampshire, UT Martin amongst the better options in my eyes.

And if NDSU is the consensus #4 I don't see how ETSU should still be outside the consensus top 25.

POD Knows
September 16th, 2024, 01:24 PM
I can see it happening when its a bunch of different voters ranking teams but how do you do it on your ballot knowing full well which team won the head to head? I mean seriously if you are ranking them together the winner should get the nod should they not??Early in the season, absolutely but the deeper you get into a season I am not going to fip a team that is 2-9 that ends up beating somebody in the top 15.

Bisonator
September 16th, 2024, 01:54 PM
Early in the season, absolutely but the deeper you get into a season I am not going to fip a team that is 2-9 that ends up beating somebody in the top 15.

Neither would I and that's not the discussion. It's ranking 2 teams next to each other in your poll and putting the loser over the winner, makes no sense whatsoever IMO. If you have them together at 7 and 8 or 23 and 24 shouldn't the H2H winner get the nod?

SFA 93
September 16th, 2024, 01:58 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Idaho Vandals
6: Southern Illinois Salukis
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: UC Davis Aggies
11: Sac State Hornets
12: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
13: Mercer Bears
14: Lafayette Leopards
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Tarleton Texans
18: Florida A&M Rattlers
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: Northern Iowa Panthers
21: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Rhode Island Rams

The Most Significant Win: Southern Illinois Salukis
The Most Significant Loss: Chattanooga Mocs

caribbeanhen
September 16th, 2024, 02:01 PM
Early in the season, absolutely but the deeper you get into a season I am not going to fip a team that is 2-9 that ends up beating somebody in the top 15.

Wofford went up to Richmond and beat ‘em 26-19

Reign of Terrier
September 16th, 2024, 02:02 PM
So, Wofford losing and climbing in the polls restored my faith in the polls lol

Hambone
September 16th, 2024, 02:20 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Idaho Vandals
6: Southern Illinois Salukis
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: UC Davis Aggies
11: Sac State Hornets
12: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
13: Mercer Bears
14: Lafayette Leopards
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Tarleton Texans
18: Florida A&M Rattlers
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: Northern Iowa Panthers
21: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Rhode Island Rams

The Most Significant Win: Southern Illinois Salukis
The Most Significant Loss: Chattanooga Mocs



I don't vote anymore because I don't have the time to watch enough games or research the games, but I'm curious on Villanova over Idaho, Montana at 7, UND at 12 and UNI at 19. I haven't spent enough time on some of the others, but those stuck out to me a little as head scratchers. No criticism per se, but wondering what I'm missing :) just to add from my perspective, for bodies of work on my limited research I'd probably have Idaho and MSU at 1/2 and SDSU at 3, and NDSU probably around 5 but not sure.....

Preferred Walk-On
September 16th, 2024, 02:53 PM
Professor, I missed on the Rhode Island>Campbell>Western Carolina (and I put together the darned HTF xembarrassedx); however, Lamar is only as good as you think Weber State is.
Chalupa, are you a Russian hacker spying on my Top 25 spreadsheet?
Southeast Missouri State 45, Tennessee-Martin 42 (2 OT)...child please!

----------

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/15/2024 6:02:40

Your vote is listed below.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Idaho Vandals
4: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
5: Mercer Bears
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Chattanooga Mocs
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: North Dakota State Bison
10: South Dakota Coyotes
11: Southern Illinois Salukis
12: Incarnate Word Cardinals
13: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Sac State Hornets
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Tarleton Texans
18: UC Davis Aggies
19: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
20: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Western Carolina Catamounts
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Richmond Spiders

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

KPSUL
September 16th, 2024, 03:00 PM
I can see it happening when its a bunch of different voters ranking teams but how do you do it on your ballot knowing full well which team won the head to head? I mean seriously if you are ranking them together the winner should get the nod should they not??

Some voters had to rank Richmond higher than Wofford otherwise they couldn't be ahead in the final poll.

ND as in Notre Dame lost to No. Ill last week and this week they are ahead of No. Ill by 6 slots in the AP Poll and 11 in the Coaches. I'd assume that FBS voters did that based on the recent years performance of both teams and the fact that ND (FBS) has a reputation as an elite team in their subdivision. You could make the same argument for MT, or Richmond for that matter although less persuasively than for the Grizzlies. There are far bigger issues with this early season poll than North Dakota vs Montana, 7 vs 8.

Reign of Terrier
September 16th, 2024, 03:10 PM
Some voters had to rank Richmond higher than Wofford otherwise they couldn't be ahead in the final poll.

ND as in Notre Dame lost to No. Ill last week and this week they are ahead of No. Ill by 6 slots in the AP Poll and 11 in the Coaches. I'd assume that FBS voters did that based on the recent years performance of both teams and the fact that ND (FBS) has a reputation as an elite team in their subdivision. You could make the same argument for MT, or Richmond for that matter although less persuasively than for the Grizzlies. There are far bigger issues with this early season poll than North Dakota vs Montana, 7 vs 8.

All of this is valid, but I’m just happy to be that high in a poll i hold in high regard, given the last 5 years we had xdrunkyx

FU_Paladin08
September 16th, 2024, 03:32 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Villanova Wildcats
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Idaho Vandals
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: William & Mary Tribe
11: Mercer Bears
12: Tarleton Texans
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Sac State Hornets
17: Albany Great Danes
18: Chattanooga Mocs
19: Furman Paladins
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Incarnate Word Cardinals
22: Abilene Christian Wildcats
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: Illinois State Redbirds
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southern Conference

nodak651
September 16th, 2024, 04:01 PM
Some voters had to rank Richmond higher than Wofford otherwise they couldn't be ahead in the final poll.

ND as in Notre Dame lost to No. Ill last week and this week they are ahead of No. Ill by 6 slots in the AP Poll and 11 in the Coaches. I'd assume that FBS voters did that based on the recent years performance of both teams and the fact that ND (FBS) has a reputation as an elite team in their subdivision. You could make the same argument for MT, or Richmond for that matter although less persuasively than for the Grizzlies. There are far bigger issues with this early season poll than North Dakota vs Montana, 7 vs 8.
Only time Griz have made it past the quarterfinals in the last decade was last year. Last game they played UND was a blowout in 2018. Like opponents last year UND was 2-1 and Montana was 1-2. Montana is higher because they have a cool stadium.

FU_Paladin08
September 16th, 2024, 04:04 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: Southern Illinois Salukis
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Sac State Hornets
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Mercer Bears
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Rhode Island Rams
19: Illinois State Redbirds
20: Northern Iowa Panthers
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Wofford Terriers
23: Harvard Crimson
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: Florida A&M Rattlers


I made close to this same post on the STATS Poll Thread, unfortunately, it seems appropriate here also:

I'm simply not going to rank an 0-3 team. Chattanooga has played reasonably well vs 1 lower tier P5 FBS opponent and what appears to be a very good Mercer team. But starting the season with two FBS games is their own choice and it is plain stupid. You need to show you can beat teams in your own subdivision, and they haven't proven that yet. There should be no prizes for just trying hard in Division 1 college football.

Not disagreeing at all, but wondering about Harvard and South Dakota. They also have zero D1 wins. Is it more about the losses?

Bisonator
September 16th, 2024, 04:08 PM
Some voters had to rank Richmond higher than Wofford otherwise they couldn't be ahead in the final poll.

ND as in Notre Dame lost to No. Ill last week and this week they are ahead of No. Ill by 6 slots in the AP Poll and 11 in the Coaches. I'd assume that FBS voters did that based on the recent years performance of both teams and the fact that ND (FBS) has a reputation as an elite team in their subdivision. You could make the same argument for MT, or Richmond for that matter although less persuasively than for the Grizzlies. There are far bigger issues with this early season poll than North Dakota vs Montana, 7 vs 8.
I'm not talking about a consensus poll or anyone elses ranking of teams. I'm specifically asking why you put Montana at 7 and UND at 8 knowing that UND just beat Montana. Would it not make more sense to have them switched due to the H2H? So your reasoning is Montana is historically better then UND so they deserve the higher spot this year even though they got beat?

POD Knows
September 16th, 2024, 04:23 PM
Neither would I and that's not the discussion. It's ranking 2 teams next to each other in your poll and putting the loser over the winner, makes no sense whatsoever IMO. If you have them together at 7 and 8 or 23 and 24 shouldn't the H2H winner get the nod?
Well let’s see, say one team, whose record is 1-2 but you ranked them behind a team that was 2-1 with a decent FBS win and a win against a good FCS team but lost to the team that is 1-2 who only has one good win and that is over the team that is 2-1

I do happen to agree with you however on the specific example you referenced but I know that I have ranked a team over another team in the past when the higher ranked team lost the H to H.

MSUBobcat
September 16th, 2024, 04:26 PM
Only time Griz have made it past the quarterfinals in the last decade was last year. Last game they played UND was a blowout in 2018. Like opponents last year UND was 2-1 and Montana was 1-2. Montana is higher because they have a cool stadium.

This was already discussed last week. UND and UM were tied until 2:09 remaining and Griz play-calling appears they were going for the regulation win when they made it to the UND 30, rather than getting into better FG position for the tie. That put them in a position where they were kicking a very long FG, rather than one that could have been 10 yards or more closer. Basically very even right up to the end. UND had the home field advantage, which is generally considered to be worth 3 points. UND was the better team, slightly, when playing at home.

How confident are you that if this game was on a neutral field, the outcome would have been the same? What about if the tables were turned and the game was in Missoula rather than GF? Looking at how close it was, I'm putting my money on the Griz at home. Last week, both played patsies and dispatched them with ease as you would have expected, so if you had the Griz ahead last week, not much new information to change your opinion.

And now after speaking favorably for the nemesis, excuse me for a minute.....:pumpuke:

Bisonator
September 16th, 2024, 04:33 PM
Well let’s see, say one team, whose record is 1-2 but you ranked them behind a team that was 2-1 with a decent FBS win and a win against a good FCS team but lost to the team that is 1-2 who only has one good win and that is over the team that is 2-1

I do happen to agree with you however on the specific example you referenced but I know that I have ranked a team over another team in the past when the higher ranked team lost the H to H.

If I'm putting 2 teams next to each other in a poll the H2H winner will get the nod every time. I have no issues if you have Montana at 7 and UND at 10 but when you have them 7-8 or 23-24 the H2H winner should be getting the nod IMO.

dbackjon
September 16th, 2024, 04:34 PM
Good to see NAU getting some votes.

If NAU can travel to IncarnateLand and win, they should crack the top 25

ursus arctos horribilis
September 16th, 2024, 05:01 PM
Only time Griz have made it past the quarterfinals in the last decade was last year. Last game they played UND was a blowout in 2018. Like opponents last year UND was 2-1 and Montana was 1-2. Montana is higher because they have a cool stadium.

We really do.

ursus arctos horribilis
September 16th, 2024, 05:07 PM
Well let’s see, say one team, whose record is 1-2 but you ranked them behind a team that was 2-1 with a decent FBS win and a win against a good FCS team but lost to the team that is 1-2 who only has one good win and that is over the team that is 2-1

I do happen to agree with you however on the specific example you referenced but I know that I have ranked a team over another team in the past when the higher ranked team lost the H to H.

I don't think there is any disagreement with that but when you have the short data set like this and 1/3 of it is a H2H win and resume that doesn't match the team that beat us it just doesn't make much sense but I ask people on these issues quite often and once in a while it is "Yeah, I should switch them" and sometimes it is evasive points that I just leave it be. I think nator asks a good question.

But, it is basically no difference with points in the overall etc. it just looks off when you see it...at this time.

POD Knows
September 16th, 2024, 05:11 PM
I don't think there is any disagreement with that but when you have the short data set like this and 1/3 of it is a H2H win and resume that doesn't match the team that beat us it just doesn't make much sense but I ask people on these issues quite often and once in a while it is "Yeah, I should switch them" and sometimes it is evasive points that I just leave it be. I think nator asks a good question.

But, it is basically no difference with points in the overall etc. it just looks off when you see it...at this time.Agree, I was just broadening the topic of scenarios where the H to H is not always the sole method for placement in the polls.

ursus arctos horribilis
September 16th, 2024, 05:19 PM
Agree, I was just broadening the topic of scenarios where the H to H is not always the sole method for placement in the polls.

For sure, after mid season it means less and less each passing week. Well, it is probably from this week on that it means less and less but it the overall resume just gains momentum every week.

Bisonator
September 16th, 2024, 05:32 PM
Agree, I was just broadening the topic of scenarios where the H to H is not always the sole method for placement in the polls.

I agree unless they are next to each other then I think it should be, like I said I'd have no problem if you have them separated by more then a spot and can justify it.

nodak651
September 16th, 2024, 05:42 PM
This was already discussed last week. UND and UM were tied until 2:09 remaining and Griz play-calling appears they were going for the regulation win when they made it to the UND 30, rather than getting into better FG position for the tie. That put them in a position where they were kicking a very long FG, rather than one that could have been 10 yards or more closer. Basically very even right up to the end. UND had the home field advantage, which is generally considered to be worth 3 points. UND was the better team, slightly, when playing at home.

How confident are you that if this game was on a neutral field, the outcome would have been the same? What about if the tables were turned and the game was in Missoula rather than GF? Looking at how close it was, I'm putting my money on the Griz at home. Last week, both played patsies and dispatched them with ease as you would have expected, so if you had the Griz ahead last week, not much new information to change your opinion.

And now after speaking favorably for the nemesis, excuse me for a minute.....:pumpuke:

We will never know because they didn't, and likely won't, play on a neutral field. The game was played and the Griz lost and it wasn't a hypothetical. Playing in the Alerus didn't seem to be an issue for Montana in the first half and I don't recall any false starts. Did you rank Montana State #1 after barely losing to SDSU at the start of last season?
With your logic, Maybe Towson should be ranked above Villanova...
https://i.ibb.co/RzwKRPk/Capture.jpg

grizband
September 16th, 2024, 05:46 PM
Know I missed a couple teams, forgot to submit last night and was rushed this morning.

1: Montana State Bobcats
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Idaho Vandals
4: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
5: North Dakota State Bison
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Mercer Bears
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: William & Mary Tribe
12: South Dakota Coyotes
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Rhode Island Rams
16: New Hampshire Wildcats
17: Northern Iowa Panthers
18: Sac State Hornets
19: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
20: Illinois State Redbirds
21: Incarnate Word Cardinals
22: Lamar Cardinals
23: Abilene Christian Wildcats
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Lafayette Leopards

grizband

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference

MSUBobcat
September 16th, 2024, 06:38 PM
We will never know because they didn't, and likely won't, play on a neutral field. The game was played and the Griz lost and it wasn't a hypothetical. Playing in the Alerus didn't seem to be an issue for Montana in the first half and I don't recall any false starts. Did you rank Montana State #1 after barely losing to SDSU at the start of last season?
With your logic, Maybe Towson should be ranked above Villanova...
https://i.ibb.co/RzwKRPk/Capture.jpg

Obviously, more voters saw, and continue to see, that game as neck and neck, hence UM continuing to be ahead of UND. It's not like UND was head and shoulders better. The Griz had some questionable play calling on 1st down from the UND 30, IMO, which may have cost them the game. If it makes you feel better, I'm not even a part of why UND is ranked lower, because I don't vote. I'm just telling you a likely reason for the placement. Like it or don't. I don't care.

As for Nova, I already said in one of these poll threads that I'm pretty shocked that Nova wasn't punished more for what I consider a very lackluster performance.

nodak651
September 16th, 2024, 06:54 PM
I dont care that much either to b honest. Mainly speaking to the logic.

taper
September 16th, 2024, 07:21 PM
Hello taper,


We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/15/2024 12:33:12


Your vote is listed below.




1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: Villanova Wildcats
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: Sac State Hornets
14: UC Davis Aggies
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Mercer Bears
18: Albany Great Danes
19: Chattanooga Mocs
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Furman Paladins
22: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
23: Tarleton Texans
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Illinois State Redbirds


taper


The Most Significant Win: Richmond Spiders
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference



A big reason AGS has the best FCS poll is the accountability. We often publish our votes and generally acknowledge our mistakes.
NDSU at 4 and ETSU at 28 might be one of our biggest misses ever. Even worse, of ETSU's 100 points, I gave them 20. Time will tell if that was a golden game, but right now they look really good.
In addition, we put Villanova at 6 but Towson didn't even get a single vote. I'm guilty of that too, but at least I dropped Nova more than most.

smilo
September 16th, 2024, 07:35 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (-)
2: Idaho Vandals (+1)
3: Montana State Bobcats (-1)
4: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (+2)
5: South Dakota Coyotes (-)
6: North Dakota State Bison (-2)
7: Sac State Hornets (-)
8: Southern Illinois Salukis (+5)
9: Montana Grizzlies (-)
10: Central Arkansas Bears (-)
11: Villanova Wildcats (-3)
12: Mercer Bears (+6)
13: UC Davis Aggies (+10)
14: William & Mary Tribe (+1)
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals (+3)
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (+5)
17: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks (New)
18: Southern Utah Thunderbirds (+6) (with a loss lol)
19: Missouri State Bears (+1)
20: Wofford Terriers (New)
21: East Tennessee State Buccaneers (New)
22: Lamar Cardinals (New)
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks (-1)
24: New Hampshire Wildcats (New)
25: Rhode Island Rams (New)

Dropped out: #11 Abilene Christian (with a win lol); #12 Nicholls; #14 Weber State; #16 Chattanooga; #17 Youngstown State; #25 Campbell

Not Ranked: #15 Lafayette, #18 Illinois State, #20 Tarleton, #24 Western Carolina; #25 Furman

MSUBobcat
September 16th, 2024, 07:45 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (-)
2: Idaho Vandals (+1)
3: Montana State Bobcats (-1)
4: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (+2)
5: South Dakota Coyotes (-)
6: North Dakota State Bison (-2)
7: Sac State Hornets (-)
8: Southern Illinois Salukis (+5)
9: Montana Grizzlies (-)
10: Central Arkansas Bears (-)
11: Villanova Wildcats (-3)
12: Mercer Bears (+6)
13: UC Davis Aggies (+10)
14: William & Mary Tribe (+1)
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals (+3)
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (+5)
17: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks (New)
18: Southern Utah Thunderbirds (+6) (with a loss lol)
19: Missouri State Bears (+1)
20: Wofford Terriers (New)
21: East Tennessee State Buccaneers (New)
22: Lamar Cardinals (New)
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks (-1)
24: New Hampshire Wildcats (New)
25: Rhode Island Rams (New)

Dropped out: #11 Abilene Christian (with a win lol); #12 Nicholls; #14 Weber State; #16 Chattanooga; #17 Youngstown State; #25 Campbell

Not Ranked: #15 Lafayette, #18 Illinois State, #20 Tarleton, #24 Western Carolina; #25 Furman

I like it, overall. Excellent willingness to reconsider a team in totality, like bumping Davis and SUU up (even with a loss) and dropping ACU out altogether with a win (that may be a smidge harsh, IMO, having that near-victory over TTU xlolx). Preconceived notions have no place in your poll, that's for sure!

TheKingpin28
September 16th, 2024, 07:46 PM
1: Idaho Vandals
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: North Dakota State Bison
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Villanova Wildcats
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Sac State Hornets
12: UC Davis Aggies
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Mercer Bears
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Illinois State Redbirds
17: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
18: The Citadel Bulldogs
19: Wofford Terriers
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: Tarleton Texans
22: Abilene Christian Wildcats
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Rhode Island Rams
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

Catbooster
September 16th, 2024, 08:28 PM
According to the consensus I'm being too hard on NDSU (and ACU, Forman Tarleton, Richmond and Illinois State who aren't on my poll).
Compared to the consensus, I'm being too nice to Rhode Island, ETSU, SUU, Campbell and UTM.
It's early in the season, they're all moving in big jumps still.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Villanova Wildcats
10: North Dakota State Bison
11: Sac State Hornets
12: UC Davis Aggies
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Incarnate Word Cardinals
15: Mercer Bears
16: Rhode Island Rams
17: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
18: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
19: Wofford Terriers
20: Campbell Fighting Camels
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Western Carolina Catamounts
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

Catbooster

The Most Significant Win: Rhode Island Rams
The Most Significant Loss: Nicholls Colonels
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/agslogo200.jpg

Preferred Walk-On
September 16th, 2024, 08:34 PM
6: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: Villanova Wildcats


A big reason AGS has the best FCS poll is the accountability. We often publish our votes and generally acknowledge our mistakes.
NDSU at 4 and ETSU at 28 might be one of our biggest misses ever. Even worse, of ETSU's 100 points, I gave them 20. Time will tell if that was a golden game, but right now they look really good.
In addition, we put Villanova at 6 but Towson didn't even get a single vote. I'm guilty of that too, but at least I dropped Nova more than most.

If it makes you feel better, ETSU got 13 pt from me, while Villanova got 12 pt. NDSU received 17 pt from me. I will admit, Towson was just outside my top 25, but looking forward to the 2014 FCS Championship game rematch this weekend…on solid turf, albeit with sometimes crooked yard lines. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Preferred Walk-On
September 16th, 2024, 08:38 PM
According to the consensus I'm being too hard on NDSU (and ACU, Forman Tarleton, Richmond and Illinois State who aren't on my poll).
Compared to the consensus, I'm being too nice to Rhode Island, ETSU, SUU, Campbell and UTM.
It's early in the season, they're all moving in big jumps still.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Villanova Wildcats
10: North Dakota State Bison
11: Sac State Hornets
12: UC Davis Aggies
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Incarnate Word Cardinals
15: Mercer Bears
16: Rhode Island Rams
17: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
18: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
19: Wofford Terriers
20: Campbell Fighting Camels
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Western Carolina Catamounts
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

Catbooster

The Most Significant Win: Rhode Island Rams
The Most Significant Loss: Nicholls Colonels
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/agslogo200.jpg

Not too hard on NDSU…flexible. I’m having difficulty with South Dakota (perhaps not their fault) and Villanova being 5 and 6. I feel like if one drops NDSU hard, those other two need to come along for the ride…at least at this point in the season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike296
September 16th, 2024, 08:42 PM
Hello Mike296,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/15/2024 20:34:27

Your vote is listed below.


1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Southern Illinois Salukis
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
9: Sac State Hornets
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Lafayette Leopards
12: Mercer Bears
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Tarleton Texans
15: Abilene Christian Wildcats
16: New Hampshire Wildcats
17: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
18: Illinois State Redbirds
19: Florida A&M Rattlers
20: Lamar Cardinals
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Harvard Crimson
23: Central Connecticut Blue Devils
24: Rhode Island Rams
25: Butler Bulldogs

Mike296

The Most Significant Win: Lamar Cardinals
The Most Significant Loss: Incarnate Word Cardinals
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Atlantic Sun Conference


I made an oops not including Villanova. First poll back after my sickness last week.

MTfan4life
September 16th, 2024, 08:56 PM
1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Villanova Wildcats
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Idaho Vandals
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: William & Mary Tribe
11: Mercer Bears
12: Tarleton Texans
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Sac State Hornets
17: Albany Great Danes
18: Chattanooga Mocs
19: Furman Paladins
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Incarnate Word Cardinals
22: Abilene Christian Wildcats
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: Illinois State Redbirds
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southern Conference

Furman at 19 is wild. Where is Charleston Southern ranked?

Puddin Tane
September 16th, 2024, 09:18 PM
Yall sleeping on my Cardinals

FU_Paladin08
September 16th, 2024, 10:05 PM
Furman at 19 is wild. Where is Charleston Southern ranked?

I’m 6 spots higher on FU than the poll, but there’s a fella that put UTC in the top 10 with zero wins. Let’s focus our attention on the real misses.

Preferred Walk-On
September 16th, 2024, 10:36 PM
I’m 6 spots higher on FU than the poll, but there’s a fella that put UTC in the top 10 with zero wins. Let’s focus our attention on the real misses.

NDSU #2
ETSU unranked

As has been said, “Let’s focus our attention on the real misses.” ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chalupa Batman
September 16th, 2024, 11:48 PM
Not too hard on NDSU…flexible. I’m having difficulty with South Dakota (perhaps not their fault) and Villanova being 5 and 6. I feel like if one drops NDSU hard, those other two need to come along for the ride…at least at this point in the season.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like you, and I'm sure many others, I really struggled about what to do with South Dakota. I'm afraid this week against Drake probably isn't going to help very much either.


Yall sleeping on my Cardinals

Possibly. Like I posted in the HTF thread, I think the Texas State loss is a little bit of fool's gold. They scored 10 points in the final 4 minutes to turn a 17 point game into a more respectable looking 7 point loss. Then against MVSU the Delta Devils were 15 yards away from tying the game with 6 minutes left. There's a case to be made that MVSU was closer to beating Lamar than Lamar was to beating Texas State, which isn't good for Lamar's resume. And as PWO mentioned earlier Lamar is only as good as you think Weber is. I don't usually rank past 25 like some voters do as just ranking the last 4-5 spots each week is hard enough as it is but I have the Cardinals just outside the poll looking in, they'd be probably 27 or 28.


I’m 6 spots higher on FU than the poll, but there’s a fella that put UTC in the top 10 with zero wins. Let’s focus our attention on the real misses.

Eh, they can both be real issues. I didn't rank Furman, and while I don't think they should be ranked I don't have a huge problem with one ranking them but 19 is too high IMO. Though I would question more why Villanova is at #3 ahead of Montana State and Idaho (and I'd have even more teams ahead of the Wildcats, but for sure the Bobcats & Vandals) and North Dakota is all the way down at 14.

mvemjsunpx
September 17th, 2024, 12:35 AM
Previous week in parentheses…


1. South Dakota St. (1)
2. Montana St. (2)
3. North Dakota St. (3)
4. Idaho (6)
5. South Dakota (5)
6. Central Arkansas (7)
7. UC Davis (9)
8. North Dakota (8)
9. Sacramento St. (14)
10. Villanova (4)
11. Montana (10)
12. Southeast Missouri St. (11)
13. Mercer (NR)
14. Southern Illinois (15)
15. William & Mary (17)
16. Lamar (NR)
17. Rhode Island (NR)
18. Florida A&M (16)
19. Tennessee-Martin (18)
20. Abilene Christian (19)
21. Southern Utah (21)
22. Lafayette (24)
23. Duquesne (NR)
24. Tennessee-Chattanooga (12)
25. East Tennessee St. (NR)

Dropped - Youngstown St. (13), Nicholls St. (20), Campbell (22), Elon (23), Western Carolina (25)


W - Mercer
L - Youngstown St.

Sitting Bull
September 17th, 2024, 06:49 AM
Not only is Chattanooga 0-3, they’ve scored a total of 27 points in 3 games. Three touchdowns so far and two field goals.

FUBeAR
September 17th, 2024, 08:20 AM
Not only is Chattanooga 0-3, they’ve scored a total of 27 points in 3 games. Three touchdowns so far and two field goals.
Mocs would hang at least 35 on The SocialDivision.

They’ve faced the #3 in FBS & #1 in FCS Scoring Defenses. Those 2 Teams are surrendering 4.67 ppg in their 6 games.

Wait until one of those famously tough Big Sky Defenses comes a-Whooping and a-Whompin’ into the Scenic City in 2 weeks. There will be no Number 6 worked up.

Only a big SoCon win as Dr.’s Artopoeus and Phillips go viral.

You’ll see.

FU_Paladin08
September 17th, 2024, 09:50 AM
Eh, they can both be real issues. I didn't rank Furman, and while I don't think they should be ranked I don't have a huge problem with one ranking them but 19 is too high IMO. Though I would question more why Villanova is at #3 ahead of Montana State and Idaho (and I'd have even more teams ahead of the Wildcats, but for sure the Bobcats & Vandals) and North Dakota is all the way down at 14.

My current rankings are definitely skewed based on my preseason poll and method of ranking. I started with Nova at 4 (ahead of MSU and Idaho) and FU at 9. I had North Dakota outside the top 25.
The case for Nova: I’m looking at D1 wins and Nova has 4. I get that MSU and Idaho have less D1 wins, but do have FBS wins. That might sort itself out this wkd when Nova plays Maryland.

The case for Furman: I dropped FU from 9 to 23 following the CSU loss, then moved them up to 19 because they won this week and the 4 teams I had ahead of them lost. I get that others didn’t have Furman ranked as high preseason so the fall was further at 0-2. This too might sort itself out this wkd when they travel to W&M.

ElCid
September 17th, 2024, 10:21 AM
NDSU #2
ETSU unranked

As has been said, “Let’s focus our attention on the real misses.” ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I gotta say the angst over ETSU is a bit much. It "was" a loss, at home, after basically having it won. Good teams don't do that. Good teams score two TDs in the last couple minutes to win. So-so teams, or bad teams let that happen. As much as I'd like to have them ranked, I don't think it's warranted at this point. They merely moved into my close watch list after performing so well. I need a bit more consistency first.

I think while some people tend to move teams too slowly, moving them too fast is just as bad. We have all seen teams get a great win and be propelled into the top 15 or 10, only to choke the next few games and be pushed out entirely. All while people understood deep down that they aren't really very good and they were over ranking them. I try to look at every game result of teams I consider. It really is hard at this point being only in week three, but I still have some last year bias hanging on a little. It's fading though. But I can see two or three teams still in the poll that have business being there based on too much prior year bias. But it's all opinion. That's just mine.

MSUBobcat
September 17th, 2024, 10:44 AM
My current rankings are definitely skewed based on my preseason poll and method of ranking. I started with Nova at 4 (ahead of MSU and Idaho) and FU at 9. I had North Dakota outside the top 25.
The case for Nova: I’m looking at D1 wins and Nova has 4. I get that MSU and Idaho have less D1 wins, but do have FBS wins. That might sort itself out this wkd when Nova plays Maryland.

The case for Furman: I dropped FU from 9 to 23 following the CSU loss, then moved them up to 19 because they won this week and the 4 teams I had ahead of them lost. I get that others didn’t have Furman ranked as high preseason so the fall was further at 0-2. This too might sort itself out this wkd when they travel to W&M.

Your case for Nova is flawed in that..... Nova has THREE wins, not 4. They were not part of the handful of FCS teams that played week 0.

Your case for Furman is flawed, IMO, in that, after 25% of the season has been played, your preseason assumptions should have very little impact at this point. Completely ignoring the Ole Miss game, Furman lost AT HOME to Chuck South. Richmond, the team you have 1 spot BEHIND Furman, dump trucked Chuck South 38-0. How do you square that Richmond is #20 when their win (38-0 over Chuck South) is better than Furman's (48-7 over PFL Stetson, 4 FCS wins in the 3 prior seasons TOTAL) and their loss (2-1 Wofford who has a strong win over G-W and 7pt loss to your #10) is better than Furman's (1-2 CSU, dump trucked by Richmond and even lost at home to Citadel, winless last year).

I won't use the FBS games in the comparison, because I'm not trying to poke the FUBeAR.

ElCid
September 17th, 2024, 10:59 AM
... your preseason assumptions should have very little impact at this point.

...and even lost at home to Citadel, winless last year).



Isn't this just a little contradictory? Is your preseason assumption that since we went winless last year, we couldn't beat CSU at their place? Not saying we are world beaters yet, but we are an entirely different team than last year. It was a powerful come from behind win at CSU. We lost a close one to SC St, and did exactly what we should have done to a more than descent D2 in the next two games. This week at Mercer should tell the tale if we meet you preseason assumptions, or defy them.

Just saying.

Professor Chaos
September 17th, 2024, 11:16 AM
My philosophy is preseason bias for some schools doesn't disappear for me until late September or early October. It really depends on how your schedule lays out - so many schools have multiple FBS games now early in the season which usually does very little to help you figure out where they stand. Add in the sub-D1 games and games against partial/no scholly D1 schools OOC it makes it tough to get a good gauge on some teams until you get a few games into the conference season and can see them go up against some known entities.

MSUBobcat
September 17th, 2024, 11:17 AM
Isn't this just a little contradictory? Is your preseason assumption that since we went winless last year, we couldn't beat CSU at their place? Not saying we are world beaters yet, but we are an entirely different team than last year. It was a powerful come from behind win at CSU. We lost a close one to SC St, and did exactly what we should have done to a more than descent D2 in the next two games. This week at Mercer should tell the tale if we meet you preseason assumptions, or defy them.

Just saying.

Fair point. I'm not basing my opinion of the Citadel only last year. Perhaps it's because I'm not as high on FAMU as others seem to be (that 1 pt victory over Norfolk St is pretty unimpressive), which trickles down to not giving SCSU much credit for a 4 pt loss to them, which means losing to SCSU, even in a close game, is not a "quality win". All are my opinion, primarily based on early season results, with a dash of prior year results sprinkled in. I can delete that last part, but it doesn't change my opinion that it's indicative of CSU not being very good.

I DO think Citadel is better than last year, by a good margin, so far this year, but still fairly low as a whole. Same with Furman. I think Furman is worse than last year, by a good margin, so far this year. Sample size is small (since I try to focus on current year results), so wild swings may occur if my opinion is off the mark. I'm willing to admit when my reads are wrong (as they frequently are, or I'd be rich off my sports betting xlolx).

bobcathpdevil56
September 17th, 2024, 11:18 AM
Mocs would hang at least 35 on The SocialDivision.

They’ve faced the #3 in FBS & #1 in FCS Scoring Defenses. Those 2 Teams are surrendering 4.67 ppg in their 6 games.

Wait until one of those famously tough Big Sky Defenses comes a-Whooping and a-Whompin’ into the Scenic City in 2 weeks. There will be no Number 6 worked up.

Only a big SoCon win as Dr.’s Artopoeus and Phillips go viral.

You’ll see.

Setting yourself up nicely, FUBear, for the season long SoCon is better than the Big Sky argument. Portland State is not a big, bad Big Sky team, but let's get the merry go round started.

FU_Paladin08
September 17th, 2024, 11:19 AM
Your case for Nova is flawed in that..... Nova has THREE wins, not 4. They were not part of the handful of FCS teams that played week 0.

Your case for Furman is flawed, IMO, in that, after 25% of the season has been played, your preseason assumptions should have very little impact at this point. Completely ignoring the Ole Miss game, Furman lost AT HOME to Chuck South. Richmond, the team you have 1 spot BEHIND Furman, dump trucked Chuck South 38-0. How do you square that Richmond is #20 when their win (38-0 over Chuck South) is better than Furman's (48-7 over PFL Stetson, 4 FCS wins in the 3 prior seasons TOTAL) and their loss (2-1 Wofford who has a strong win over G-W and 7pt loss to your #10) is better than Furman's (1-2 CSU, dump trucked by Richmond and even lost at home to Citadel, winless last year).

I won't use the FBS games in the comparison, because I'm not trying to poke the FUBeAR.
Typo on the 4 wins for Nova. Preseason has to matter, it’s a part of the formula. Otherwise SDSU has no business above MSU in any poll.

My Nova/FU nonsense will sort itself out this wkd. If they win the rankings are justified, if they lose better teams will jump them.

Chalupa Batman
September 17th, 2024, 11:33 AM
My current rankings are definitely skewed based on my preseason poll and method of ranking. I started with Nova at 4 (ahead of MSU and Idaho) and FU at 9. I had North Dakota outside the top 25.
First off, I know you're a first time voter this year and want to say glad that you decided to take the time to vote each week, and kudos for posting your poll. It seems every year fewer pollsters are still publicly posting theirs.

Our preseason poll is always going to skew our poll this early into the season no matter how much we don’t want it to, but IMO at this point (after 3 games for most teams) you can be way more reactive in how much you are raising or dropping teams in the poll. Though as ElCid said, there can be a fine line between being too reactive and not reactive enough.


The case for Nova: I’m looking at D1 wins and Nova has 4. I get that MSU and Idaho have less D1 wins, but do have FBS wins. That might sort itself out this wkd when Nova plays Maryland.

My case for Montana State & Idaho (and at the same time against Villanova) is that the Bobcats and Vandals have either done what they were supposed to do or exceeded expectations in every game they’ve played this season, while ‘Nova has performed under expectation in every game this season. The Youngstown State win in the opener looked nice at the time, but any shine that win had got rubbed away when the Penguins lost to Duquesne. Then they looked ho-hum against Colgate and had to fade 2 FG’s in the final couple minutes to escape with a win against Towson.


The case for Furman: I dropped FU from 9 to 23 following the CSU loss, then moved them up to 19 because they won this week and the 4 teams I had ahead of them lost. I get that others didn’t have Furman ranked as high preseason so the fall was further at 0-2. This too might sort itself out this wkd when they travel to W&M.

I pretty much agree with MSUBobcat's thoughts on the Furman/Richmond/Charleston Southern round-robin.

MSUBobcat
September 17th, 2024, 11:39 AM
My philosophy is preseason bias for some schools doesn't disappear for me until late September or early October. It really depends on how your schedule lays out - so many schools have multiple FBS games now early in the season which usually does very little to help you figure out where they stand. Add in the sub-D1 games and games against partial/no scholly D1 schools OOC it makes it tough to get a good gauge on some teams until you get a few games into the conference season and can see them go up against some known entities.

I agree with this, but it does wane with each passing week. As this year started early, I would say after this week's games, preseason bias should pretty much be gone. We'll be 1/3 of the way thru the season. Ursus posted this in the HTF thread (apparently can't quote a post from another thread, but here's a link (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?364040-AGS-Top-25-How-They-Fared-Week-3-Fall-2024/page2) to the post to give him his proper credit), and I think it's a pretty good guideline:

"Well, my method is perfect so feel free to copy it. xlolx

Preseason 100% prognostication
Wk1 50% data, 50% prognostication.
Wk2 75% data,25% prognostication.
Wk3 90% data, 10% prognostication.
Wk4 100% data."

If some people incorporate preseason bias for another week, no biggie. After week 6 (October 5th games), preseason bias should be out the window.

MSUBobcat
September 17th, 2024, 12:13 PM
Typo on the 4 wins for Nova. Preseason has to matter, it’s a part of the formula. Otherwise SDSU has no business above MSU in any poll.

My Nova/FU nonsense will sort itself out this wkd. If they win the rankings are justified, if they lose better teams will jump them.

SDSU has no business being above MSU in any poll??? I don't even have MSU as the best team in their own conference! SDSU didn't get run out of the building against 3-0, top-15 Ok State AND they have a top-25 FCS win already (#16 in AGS), by a pretty good margin.

Interesting that Nova losing to a 2-1 Maryland will tell you more about them than the fairly lackluster performance against YSU (as Chalupa said, the shine is off that win) and Towson.

I hope you don't take my comments as an attack on your poll and just see it as a debate. I do appreciate that you are taking the time to put a poll together and also have the courage to post it publicly and be held accountable/accept "criticism". xthumbsupx

JALMOND
September 17th, 2024, 12:20 PM
Wait until one of those famously tough Big Sky Defenses comes a-Whooping and a-Whompin’ into the Scenic City in 2 weeks. There will be no Number 6 worked up.



I am glad that someone is scared of PSU's defense. Whooping cough was probably the best defense we've had in some time.

Preferred Walk-On
September 17th, 2024, 01:24 PM
I gotta say the angst over ETSU is a bit much. It "was" a loss, at home, after basically having it won. Good teams don't do that. Good teams score two TDs in the last couple minutes to win. So-so teams, or bad teams let that happen. As much as I'd like to have them ranked, I don't think it's warranted at this point. They merely moved into my close watch list after performing so well. I need a bit more consistency first.

I think while some people tend to move teams too slowly, moving them too fast is just as bad. We have all seen teams get a great win and be propelled into the top 15 or 10, only to choke the next few games and be pushed out entirely. All while people understood deep down that they aren't really very good and they were over ranking them. I try to look at every game result of teams I consider. It really is hard at this point being only in week three, but I still have some last year bias hanging on a little. It's fading though. But I can see two or three teams still in the poll that have business being there based on too much prior year bias. But it's all opinion. That's just mine.

No angst, just responding to someone who thinks a Chattanooga loss to Mercer by 7 pt (and the fact that their other games were FBS) thinks they shouldn't be very high, and if so, it is a "real miss". Also, just a thought on where ETSU ranks in the SoCon. If Mercer, Chattanooga, Wofford, or Furman are better, then presumably they might win that game. If they beat NDSU head-to-head this early, I would presume that they would be ranked (and potentially ahead of NDSU). So the question is, "Do you think that one (or more) of those 4 would have held on and won, or at least been the better team for 58/60 min. If so, then I presume they might have been ranked higher than "unranked" and probably near NDSU. That "win" for NDSU involved a muffed punt where the ball happened to squirt underneath the pile back to the individual that fumbled it. The other requirement for NDSU to win that game was bouncing an onside kick off an ETSU facemask and recovering. It happens...obviously, but anybody that watched that game has to question (a) how NDSU will fare in the conference season and (b) where ETSU might ultimately end up in SoCon and playoff picture. It is entirely possible that ETSU is a middle-pack team and NDSU isn't very good; however, voters seem to think NDSU is pretty good, so...

Redbird 4th & short
September 17th, 2024, 01:50 PM
I agree with this, but it does wane with each passing week. As this year started early, I would say after this week's games, preseason bias should pretty much be gone. We'll be 1/3 of the way thru the season. Ursus posted this in the HTF thread (apparently can't quote a post from another thread, but here's a link (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?364040-AGS-Top-25-How-They-Fared-Week-3-Fall-2024/page2) to the post to give him his proper credit), and I think it's a pretty good guideline:

"Well, my method is perfect so feel free to copy it. xlolx

Preseason 100% prognostication
Wk1 50% data, 50% prognostication.
Wk2 75% data,25% prognostication.
Wk3 90% data, 10% prognostication.
Wk4 100% data."

If some people incorporate preseason bias for another week, no biggie. After week 6 (October 5th games), preseason bias should be out the window.

good approach, though I think it takes more than 4 weeks to 100% rely on this years games. There's usually a couple mismatched games in there, that can throw things off. In normal 11 game season, I think 3 nonconf games + 3 conf games is a optimal time to cut the cord on preseason or preconceived notions of this or that team. Statistically, its' also a good point in season to start leaning partly on computer models .. especially for SOS relative to game results.

Anyway agree on approach, would just stretch to 6 games, meaning 7th game would be 100% .. need to see them in conf for 3 games IMO.

ElCid
September 17th, 2024, 01:54 PM
Fair point. I'm not basing my opinion of the Citadel only last year. Perhaps it's because I'm not as high on FAMU as others seem to be (that 1 pt victory over Norfolk St is pretty unimpressive), which trickles down to not giving SCSU much credit for a 4 pt loss to them, which means losing to SCSU, even in a close game, is not a "quality win". All are my opinion, primarily based on early season results, with a dash of prior year results sprinkled in. I can delete that last part, but it doesn't change my opinion that it's indicative of CSU not being very good.

I DO think Citadel is better than last year, by a good margin, so far this year, but still fairly low as a whole. Same with Furman. I think Furman is worse than last year, by a good margin, so far this year. Sample size is small (since I try to focus on current year results), so wild swings may occur if my opinion is off the mark. I'm willing to admit when my reads are wrong (as they frequently are, or I'd be rich off my sports betting xlolx).

I can buy that. And we are definitely better after watching our three games. Not sure what happened last year. New coach named late. Hangover from the virus. The traditional triple option getting outlawed (for all intents and purposes) and having the wrong personnel as a result. Probably a combination of all three. Until the last three years or so, we have always played Mercer close. We are 5-5 since they came back. We will see how they do against an unquestionably good team this Saturday.

wcugrad95
September 17th, 2024, 02:00 PM
Sorry as I have been MIA on posting my rankings. I became a new voter about 1/2 way through last season. I am one of the probably over-reactors to ETSU's performance to date, and I am giving some fully acknowledged homer love to the SOCON, but here was my poll.

1: Idaho Vandals
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: North Dakota State Bison
7: Villanova Wildcats
8: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
9: Sac State Hornets
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: Mercer Bears
12: Southern Illinois Salukis
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: UC Davis Aggies
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Wofford Terriers
18: Tarleton Texans
19: Illinois State Redbirds
20: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
21: Lamar Cardinals
22: Rhode Island Rams
23: Western Carolina Catamounts
24: Elon Phoenix
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds


The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southern Conference

FUBeAR
September 17th, 2024, 02:05 PM
I can buy that. And we are definitely better after watching our three games. Not sure what happened last year. New coach named late. Hangover from the virus. The traditional triple option getting outlawed (for all intents and purposes) and having the wrong personnel as a result. Probably a combination of all three. Until the last three years or so, we have always played Mercer close. We are 5-5 since they came back. We will see how they do against an unquestionably good team this Saturday.
Are you really implying that a Chattanooga Team that held a late 4th quarter lead over a 2023 Bowl-winning FBS Team already with a win over an SEC Team on their 2024 resume is not ‘an unquestionably good’ Team and The Citadel is?

Or is FUBeAR confusing your pronouns … so to speak?

ElCid
September 17th, 2024, 02:22 PM
No angst, just responding to someone who thinks a Chattanooga loss to Mercer by 7 pt (and the fact that their other games were FBS) thinks they shouldn't be very high, and if so, it is a "real miss". Also, just a thought on where ETSU ranks in the SoCon. If Mercer, Chattanooga, Wofford, or Furman are better, then presumably they might win that game. If they beat NDSU head-to-head this early, I would presume that they would be ranked (and potentially ahead of NDSU). So the question is, "Do you think that one (or more) of those 4 would have held on and won, or at least been the better team for 58/60 min. If so, then I presume they might have been ranked higher than "unranked" and probably near NDSU. That "win" for NDSU involved a muffed punt where the ball happened to squirt underneath the pile back to the individual that fumbled it. The other requirement for NDSU to win that game was bouncing an onside kick off an ETSU facemask and recovering. It happens...obviously, but anybody that watched that game has to question (a) how NDSU will fare in the conference season and (b) where ETSU might ultimately end up in SoCon and playoff picture. It is entirely possible that ETSU is a middle-pack team and NDSU isn't very good; however, voters seem to think NDSU is pretty good, so...

Yeah, "IF" they had won, I would have them ranked. "Maybe" not as high as NDSU, which is always sacrilege to some, given how the game unfolded, AND given the body of work to date, albeit a short body. Fairly sure UTC, Mercer, or Wofford, (not Furman) given the same situation "at the end of the game" would have pulled it out given their most likely better defenses, given their performance to date and recent history. Not sure they could have gotten to that point since we all know the crazy dynamic of each game and sometimes how it gets away from some teams. Another recent example, in FBS, is obviously the N Ill/ND game. I don't think anyone feels that N Ill is fundamentally better, and they actually won. I think ETSU was seriously prepared and NDSU might have been a bit too lax given their expectation of ETSU given they were a 27 point favorite. I expect ETSU to be between 3-5 and 5-3 in conf play. But who knows. I could be way off. We will see how (if) they bounce back at Elon. This coming week will clear a lot of fog.

What is ironic, if you remember, is ETSU did the same exact thing to KSU in the playoffs in 21. Scored twice in a minute and a half with an onsides kick, and also got an 2 pt conversion to win. They got waxed by 4 scores the next week...by NDSU.

ElCid
September 17th, 2024, 02:25 PM
Are you really implying that a Chattanooga Team that held a late 4th quarter lead over a 2023 Bowl-winning FBS Team already with a win over an SEC Team on their 2024 resume is not ‘an unquestionably good’ Team and The Citadel is?

Or is FUBeAR confusing your pronouns … so to speak?

I was typing fast. But I figured you could figure it out, since we were talking about my Bulldogs.. Alas no. I'll restate for FUBeAR.

WE will see how MY BULLDOGS do against an unquestionably good Mercer team.

FUBeAR
September 17th, 2024, 02:49 PM
I was typing fast. But I figured you could figure it out, since we were talking about my Bulldogs.. Alas no. I'll restate for FUBeAR.

WE will see how MY BULLDOGS do against an unquestionably good Mercer team.
Ahh … got it.

Well…that said, all you peeps pooping on the Chattanooga Mocs are just ignoring their near-scalp of GaSt, whose only loss is to a P4 Team, whose only loss by 3 points is to an undefeated P4 Conference Leading Team.

Chatt was the pre-season SoCon Favorite for a reason. Their O-Line needs work and their RB is not Alim Ford (few are), but they are solid elsewhere. Their excellent QB, Chase Artopoeus, fortunately for Mercer, just had a bad day. Tiger didn’t win every golf tournament in which he played and Artopoeus won’t have many days as “off” as he was last Saturday.

If the Coaches don’t lose the locker room, sitting at 0-3 (with 2 FBS losses & 1 ranked FCS loss) for 2 weeks, with a Big Sky matchup on the horizon, as they did during the Covid year, Chatt will compete for the SoCon Championship, and is definitely a Playoff-worthy Team talent-wise; just as they were when they whipped 9-3, undefeated-in-conference, UAC Champion, APSU, on the road with Artopoeus out injured last year, in the 1st round.

wcugrad95
September 17th, 2024, 02:53 PM
I dropped the Mocs this week just like I dropped WCU last week. Different reasons (WCU's QB has his off day against a bad team while Chatt's was against a good one), but you still have to win a game at some point. In UTC's case, I agree they are still an 8 or even 9-win team waiting to happen. And I'll have them right back in there and moving up the charts after many of those Ws.

FU_Paladin08
September 17th, 2024, 03:10 PM
I hope you don't take my comments as an attack on your poll and just see it as a debate. I do appreciate that you are taking the time to put a poll together and also have the courage to post it publicly and be held accountable/accept "criticism". xthumbsupx
First year voter here so I welcome all attacks and criticism. Keep me straight fellas!

smilo
September 17th, 2024, 03:11 PM
I like it, overall. Excellent willingness to reconsider a team in totality, like bumping Davis and SUU up (even with a loss) and dropping ACU out altogether with a win (that may be a smidge harsh, IMO, having that near-victory over TTU xlolx). Preconceived notions have no place in your poll, that's for sure!

Thank you and no offense taken on the ACU critique. They were #22/23 when I went to bed but I took them out with fresh eyes. Historically FBS wins have not been great indicators of long term success against the subdivision in my opinion - sometimes it injuries piling up, but whatever it is - I tend to slightly discount FBS performances as we move into the season. UNCo has not once had a good team since I've been a poll voter, only barely notching two winning records thanks to D2 wins, and now coming off their worst season in that stretch. But I clearly don't need to tell you that 😂

UNCo haven't put up poor performances so far but are once again 0-3. That 2 point ACU win is going to put Abilene just outside for me. But I can't fault someone for putting them anywhere in the 20s or ahead of URI - although the UWG win was not dominant. The Holy Cross wins made me so inclined to treat URI and UNH equally for now. To be determined how that holds up.

Preferred Walk-On
September 17th, 2024, 03:28 PM
Yeah, "IF" they had won, I would have them ranked. "Maybe" not as high as NDSU, which is always sacrilege to some, given how the game unfolded, AND given the body of work to date, albeit a short body. Fairly sure UTC, Mercer, or Wofford, (not Furman) given the same situation "at the end of the game" would have pulled it out given their most likely better defenses, given their performance to date and recent history. Not sure they could have gotten to that point since we all know the crazy dynamic of each game and sometimes how it gets away from some teams. Another recent example, in FBS, is obviously the N Ill/ND game. I don't think anyone feels that N Ill is fundamentally better, and they actually won. I think ETSU was seriously prepared and NDSU might have been a bit too lax given their expectation of ETSU given they were a 27 point favorite. I expect ETSU to be between 3-5 and 5-3 in conf play. But who knows. I could be way off. We will see how (if) they bounce back at Elon. This coming week will clear a lot of fog.

What is ironic, if you remember, is ETSU did the same exact thing to KSU in the playoffs in 21. Scored twice in a minute and a half with an onsides kick, and also got an 2 pt conversion to win. They got waxed by 4 scores the next week...by NDSU.

As an outsider to the SoCon, I thought East Tennessee State did a lot of nice things on the field. I think the Bison made some mistakes, but many of the mistakes, which would be unusual in years past, were unfortunately not that unusual to me...meaning that these types of mistakes will probably be something the Bison will have to overcome for the remainder of the season. Therefore, I felt that the Buccaneers (I realize n=1) are NOT last year's ETSU, AND that they showed a lot of promise for potentially being in the SoCon conference race this year. I could be way off base, but based on the data through week 3, I thought that deserved merit.

I think the poll for me early in the season is quite fluid, because once the season really gets underway (6-8 weeks in), the voting does become more rigid due to not only recent results, but body of work. Therefore, if a team is outside looking in (or inside looking out), their movement is stifled by this rigidity and can make it difficult to, for example, displace a seed with a team on an upward trajectory (or vice versa). Obviously, my poll indicates that ETSU should be ranked, and as you are well aware, once they enter the conference season, the current Big 4 can then put ETSU in its place...or not. There are obviously many factors that went into that ETSU game, and the Bison usually get everyone's best shot, but I think that ETSU team could be >5-3 in the SoCon. That said, I apparently think highly of the SoCon at this point, so please don't let me down.

Preferred Walk-On
September 17th, 2024, 03:31 PM
First year voter here so I welcome all attacks and criticism. Keep me straight fellas!

It is nothing personal to disagree, and even if the banter can sometimes get a bit heated, one thing to remember is that I believe we as voters all can agree that to do this right requires more time and effort than the casual fan may realize. Therefore, ALL voters in this forum have my respect. Period.

FU_Paladin08
September 17th, 2024, 03:47 PM
It is nothing personal to disagree, and even if the banter can sometimes get a bit heated, one thing to remember is that I believe we as voters all can agree that to do this right requires more time and effort than the casual fan may realize. Therefore, ALL voters in this forum have my respect. Period.
Amen! You should see the Excel form I created for this. I’m well on my way to developing and patenting an algorithm.

Reign of Terrier
September 17th, 2024, 04:49 PM
I’m not a poll voter anymore, but i may post a top 15 in these threads

JALMOND
September 17th, 2024, 05:49 PM
First year voter here so I welcome all attacks and criticism. Keep me straight fellas!

Anyone here who is willing to stay up trying to figure out if a team from a school they otherwise have never heard of before is worthy of a Top 25 ranking has my upmost respect. Anyone who attacks said person for doing it is an ass (my humble opinion). Criticism is fine, attacks are not. Thank you for all your work.

MSUBobcat
September 17th, 2024, 05:53 PM
It is nothing personal to disagree, and even if the banter can sometimes get a bit heated, one thing to remember is that I believe we as voters all can agree that to do this right requires more time and effort than the casual fan may realize. Therefore, ALL voters in this forum have my respect. Period.

Amen, Brother Walk-On. Preach it.

-a member of the congregation that voted at one time but no longer feels able to properly get a poll put together by the deadline

KPSUL
September 17th, 2024, 07:50 PM
I'm not talking about a consensus poll or anyone elses ranking of teams. I'm specifically asking why you put Montana at 7 and UND at 8 knowing that UND just beat Montana. Would it not make more sense to have them switched due to the H2H? So your reasoning is Montana is historically better then UND so they deserve the higher spot this year even though they got beat?

The post you quoted is all the answer you need. Inaccurately paraphrasing it won't help you understand it. But cheer up you're not required to agree with it. Thanks for the feedback.