D-II to FCS again?

[bonarae]

Central Oklahoma is considering moving up...

https://fearthefcs.com/2024/09/10/central-oklahoma-may-consider-jump-to-fcs-in-the-future/

[Reign of Terrier]

Maybe a hot take, but FCS football is the 3-5 tiers of college football and so I don't oppose teams from the 6th and below moving up. I think if a few teams moved up it would just be 4-5

[Outsider1]

They would be a decent fit for the WAC/UAC, but I am not aware of any formal or informal talks between the school and conference. I always wondered what it would be like playing against Dorrel again.

[coriander_seed]

Central Oklahoma is considering moving up...

https://fearthefcs.com/2024/09/10/central-oklahoma-may-consider-jump-to-fcs-in-the-future/

I am looking forward to the completion of that water feature.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Knowing nothing about school or program, it's always cool adding a new state to the FCS footprint.

[MR. CHICKEN]

..........LOOKS LIKE TUMBLEWEEDERS......STOCKIN' DUH CUPBOARD....WHIFF CUPCAKES.......TA RIVAL DUH NORTHEAST.......AWK!

[FUBeAR]

Knowing nothing about school or program, it's always cool adding a new state to the FCS footprint.
We SoCon peeps do know 1 person @ Central Oklahoma…

BOB HOFFMAN


Head Men's Basketball Coach

Hoffman came to UCO from Mercer, where he led the Bears of Macon, Ga. to 209 wins in his 11-year stint there.
https://bronchosports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/bob-hoffman/1154

[ElCid]

Maybe a hot take, but FCS football is the 3-5 tiers of college football and so I don't oppose teams from the 6th and below moving up. I think if a few teams moved up it would just be 4-5

Not to nitpick, but it really is the 4-6 tier. The super elite FBS P5 (UGA, ND, Mich, TX, etc), the run of the mill P5, (IN, Duke, BC, Purdue, Vandy, etc), the G5 zoo, then FCS. The haves and have nots are continuing to position themselves for clearer, and more definitive stratification. They just have to figure out how to kick out the dead weight from their new mega conferences to lock in their cabal. But the separation already exists.

There are now 134 FBS teams and 129 FCS teams. There are 162 Div II. For perspective, in 1985 there were 110 FBS and 87 FCS. There were 95 Div II (although that may be inaccurate). That is 24 new FBS, 42 new FCS, and 67 new Div II. That is 130 more. These were moves "or" new programs. We all know how many "new" programs, in the SE especially, have diluted the supply of recruits. The players are there to fill the rosters, but the talent level is obviously diluted. Every new or moved up team strains it a little more.

[Reign of Terrier]

i put NDSU and SDSU in the 3rd tier fwiw

[Libertine]

We all know how many "new" programs, in the SE especially, have diluted the supply of recruits. The players are there to fill the rosters, but the talent level is obviously diluted. Every new or moved up team strains it a little more.

I disagree with this premise of a zero-sum number of available athletes. If anything, the level of training and skill development available to today's athletes -- even at the HS level -- has never been higher, meaning that average players today would likely have been above average players in years past. I don't believe that the level of talent is diluted by number of programs, rather that the overall talent curve has risen but also flattened and become ubiquitous so that talent simply doesn't stand out to the casual observer as it once did.

That said, I think there's a place for C Oklahoma in FCS. From an enrollment standpoint, it's the 3rd-largest college in the state and is more than twice the size of FBS U of Tulsa. Geographically, it seems to fit right in the Southland's existing footprint and would be no more an outlier in the SL than Abilene or C Ark.

[nodak651]

Would also make a good travel partner for ORU in the Summit League. Football could join the MVFC or potentially the United.

[ElCid]

I disagree with this premise of a zero-sum number of available athletes. If anything, the level of training and skill development available to today's athletes -- even at the HS level -- has never been higher, meaning that average players today would likely have been above average players in years past. I don't believe that the level of talent is diluted by number of programs, rather that the overall talent curve has risen but also flattened and become ubiquitous so that talent simply doesn't stand out to the casual observer as it once did.

That said, I think there's a place for C Oklahoma in FCS. From an enrollment standpoint, it's the 3rd-largest college in the state and is more than twice the size of FBS U of Tulsa. Geographically, it seems to fit right in the Southland's existing footprint and would be no more an outlier in the SL than Abilene or C Ark.

That might very well be true, but looking at the overall numbers, I probably think it is somewhere in the middle. You can't grow the number of programs by 33% and have zero impact on the Div I talent pool. There are only so many HS playing football. Yeah they grow as well, but not as fast. At least from what I've seen. And changing cultures have taken a bite out of it over the years as well. But better training, development, better data, and communication and information regarding recruiting, etc, may very well have mitigated it. I could go and add up the "new" programs to see the exact number of scholarships that gobbled up players that thinned the depth of P5, FCS, and Div II. That is where I think the impact has been greatest, at depth as you go lower in competition. It's just a quality vs quantity evaluation.

[Outsider1]

I disagree with this premise of a zero-sum number of available athletes. If anything, the level of training and skill development available to today's athletes -- even at the HS level -- has never been higher, meaning that average players today would likely have been above average players in years past. I don't believe that the level of talent is diluted by number of programs, rather that the overall talent curve has risen but also flattened and become ubiquitous so that talent simply doesn't stand out to the casual observer as it once did.

That said, I think there's a place for C Oklahoma in FCS. From an enrollment standpoint, it's the 3rd-largest college in the state and is more than twice the size of FBS U of Tulsa. Geographically, it seems to fit right in the Southland's existing footprint and would be no more an outlier in the SL than Abilene or C Ark.

It would definitely be an outlier geographically for the SLC. It fits much better in either the WAC/UAC or the Summit/MVFC. Out of those two, the WAC/UAC would probably be the landing spot.

[Libertine]

I could go and add up the "new" programs to see the exact number of scholarships that gobbled up players that thinned the depth of P5, FCS, and Div II. That is where I think the impact has been greatest, at depth as you go lower in competition. It's just a quality vs quantity evaluation.

I agree with this part. As an example in my area, I think you can draw a straight line between the demise of Virginia Tech as a dominant national program and the advent of the ODU program / rise of JMU and Liberty programs. VT was still drawing the in-state stars but lost their monopoly on the next level of developmental guys who found other opportunities to get on the field and cost VT their depth. That doesn't make the overall talent pool thinner but certainly makes it more homogeneous.

[smilo]

I agree with this part. As an example in my area, I think you can draw a straight line between the demise of Virginia Tech as a dominant national program and the advent of the ODU program / rise of JMU and Liberty programs. VT was still drawing the in-state stars but lost their monopoly on the next level of developmental guys who found other opportunities to get on the field and cost VT their depth. That doesn't make the overall talent pool thinner but certainly makes it more homogeneous.

I guess JMU of late is a special case, but I don't see any reason why ODU should be eating into Tech's talent pool by simply existing. I think power conference realignment is probably a bigger factor in this. Teams that leave their traditional footprint/rivalries tend to do a bit worse (and the increased level of competition doesn't help). I think Beamer staying at the helm put off the inevitable for a bit. You have valid points on the timeline, but I don't know if I buy it completely.

I think most talent is willing to give it a shot at the highest level and then only back out to a neighborhood G5/FCS transfer if they aren't getting PT. They aren't losing many recruiting battles from the start.

I'm certainly no expert, and I think there are a lot of causes. But all the extra schools in the south and the depth of the SEC hasn't prevented them from winning national titles pretty consistently. I would expect such a trend to show up much more at the regional/conference level --- and yet, the SEC dominates with depth, and the top heavy Big Ten rarely beats them out.

[Libertine]

I don't see any reason why ODU should be eating into Tech's talent pool by simply existing.

I watched it happen up close. In their heyday, VT practically lived in the talent-rich 757 (aka., Virginia Beach / Hampton / Norfolk) and were landing virtually every recruit there that they wanted. UVa did OK there but the region unquestionably belonged to Tech. However, once ODU came on the scene, VT was still able to pull the best of the area but the guys who would otherwise have represented the interior of the depth chart or players that needed time to develop started choosing to stay at home to play instead. Once the cracks in VT's recruiting "wall" around that area began to show, every other program in the state got serious about prioritizing it and VT never recovered. I doubt they ever will.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Knowing nothing about school or program, it's always cool adding a new state to the FCS footprint.

I agree! Now having spent significant time in Kansas, it's my firm belief the Sunflower State has two (Fort Hays State & Washburn), maybe 3 (Pittsburg State), institutions that would be successful at the Division 1 FCS level if afforded the opportunity. Washburn is located in Topeka so the school reaps the innate benefits associated with being a public institution that calls the capital home. Fort Hays is the state's third largest university thus it is very well resourced relative to external perception. While its remote location is a bit of a negative, its overall impact in Western Kansas supersedes the logistical impediments.

Pittsburg State has by far the best program (D2 powerhouse) but the school lacks the resources of FHSU and Washburn. Plus, it's location is less than ideal. PSU has the "feel" of a typical D2 PSAC institution whereas FHSU and Washburn present themselves in a way that conveys more "institutional substance" (for lack of a better practical term); ala Northern Iowa and Central Connecticut State for example.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I've spent zero minutes and zero seconds in my entire life pondering which D2 schools in the state of Kansas are DI-worthy but once again, your deep knowledge of educational institutions of all sizes and types continues to amaze me.

You would think that with all the DI basketball success public institutions in the state have enjoyed, particularly over the past 40 years, perhaps there would be an opportunity for a school like a Fort Hays or Washburn to pursue a low-major DI conference membership (Summit League or WAC). DI football on the other hand has been the opposite, historically. KU a laughingstock who was last relevant in the Big 8 in maybe the 1960's? They did have one wild year in 2007 I believe, making it to the Orange Bowl. KSU has put itself on the map since 1998 or so but prior to that was the worst major college program in the country. I think KSU went from the mid-1950's until the mid-1990's without a winning season. Wichita cut football in the mid-1980's and there was some smoke about 5 years ago regarding a revival but that talk died quickly.

[ElCid]

I agree with this part. As an example in my area, I think you can draw a straight line between the demise of Virginia Tech as a dominant national program and the advent of the ODU program / rise of JMU and Liberty programs. VT was still drawing the in-state stars but lost their monopoly on the next level of developmental guys who found other opportunities to get on the field and cost VT their depth. That doesn't make the overall talent pool thinner but certainly makes it more homogeneous.

That's a good example. The rise of schools in Georgia has probably eaten into Tech. Not UGA though. They have a bigger pool/reach anyway. Think GA So, KSU, Mercer, GA St. None existed in the early 80s. GA So was just getting started. I see it through a very regional lens. The number of new NC, SC, FL and GA schools has chewed into Furman, SC St, and The Citadel for sure as compared to 40 years ago. That was it for SC FCS. Although we are weird anyway. And we had many "new" football schools in this region, not just move ups. I have to take off my shoes to count the number of new schools alone.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I've spent zero minutes and zero seconds in my entire life pondering which D2 schools in the state of Kansas are DI-worthy but once again, your deep knowledge of educational institutions of all sizes and types continues to amaze me.

You would think that with all the DI basketball success public institutions in the state have enjoyed, particularly over the past 40 years, perhaps there would be an opportunity for a school like a Fort Hays or Washburn to pursue a low-major DI conference membership (Summit League or WAC). DI football on the other hand has been the opposite, historically. KU a laughingstock who was last relevant in the Big 8 in maybe the 1960's? They did have one wild year in 2007 I believe, making it to the Orange Bowl. KSU has put itself on the map since 1998 or so but prior to that was the worst major college program in the country. I think KSU went from the mid-1950's until the mid-1990's without a winning season. Wichita cut football in the mid-1980's and there was some smoke about 5 years ago regarding a revival but that talk died quickly.

I appreciate those sentiments as I have expended a great deal of energy and spent a tremendous amount of time learning more about our country's higher education institutions. However, no one can ever truly account for every college/university, let alone the infinite nuances that differentiate the one's we think we have a firm cognitive grasp of. There's no question my lifelong love of college sports (especially PL/IL athletics) greatly contributed to both my unusual fascination with college sports and academia at an early age. This rather transcended process has obviously evolved with age and continued formal education. With that said, just last week I learned about an institution, Franklin Pierce, that I have never heard of despite calling a state i'm quite familiar with, New Hampshire, home for 62 years. Moral of the story, there's always more to learn and AGS (in addition to formal education mediums) provides an incredible platform to expand one's horizons when it comes to higher education.

KU has a pretty respectable football history pre-1970s. Since then, outside of a few good seasons under Glen Mason (he was a really good coach!) in the 1990s and a 3 year run of success under Mangino (highlighted by 2007) the Jayhawks have been in the dumps. While Gale Sayers is easily their most highly regarded football alum, the school has produced numerous other influential players.

K-State arrived on the national scene in 1993 when they went 9-2-1 and finished ranked #18/#20. From that point until now (Ron Prince era somewhat excluded as 'Cats really didn't bottom out) K-State has easily been one of the most successful FBS programs in the country. So while the highest level of Kansas football has not attained anywhere close to the elite success their neighbors to the north (Nebraska) and to the south (Oklahoma) have, outside of 1970s and 1980s Sun Flower State college football has had a positive presence nationally.

K-State's football culture is awesome! They really do it right; i.e. major program without a commercialized/impersonal feel. The stadium/facilities are top notch without being pretentious and the players/coaches tend to be good people. People also don't realize just how small K-State is; with an undergrad enrollment of just over 15,000 it's the smallest P4 institution in the country. For reference K-State is slightly larger than West Chester University (PSAC member). The institution's long history of punching above its weight class is what drew me to it over the University of Delaware for my doctoral work.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile... MEAC can and should raid the CIAA and other fellow HBCUs in D-II... what do you think?

https://theanalyst.com/na/2024/09/conference-realignment-meac-expansion-division-ii-hbcus

[ElCid]

People also don't realize just how small K-State is; with an undergrad enrollment of just over 15,000 it's the smallest P4 institution in the country.

Huh? I don't think KSt is even close to the smallest. Probably a top 10, of the smallest, but not the smallest (unless you meant public P4). And that includes whether counting just undergrads or total students. WF, Duke, ND, Vandy, and BC are all smaller. Wake is the overall winner with just about 9K total and only 5500 undergrads. Vandy is only slightly bigger.

[Sitting Bull]

I watched it happen up close. In their heyday, VT practically lived in the talent-rich 757 (aka., Virginia Beach / Hampton / Norfolk) and were landing virtually every recruit there that they wanted. UVa did OK there but the region unquestionably belonged to Tech. However, once ODU came on the scene, VT was still able to pull the best of the area but the guys who would otherwise have represented the interior of the depth chart or players that needed time to develop started choosing to stay at home to play instead. Once the cracks in VT's recruiting "wall" around that area began to show, every other program in the state got serious about prioritizing it and VT never recovered. I doubt they ever will.

I don’t know who dominates the 757 recruiting today - it’s probably splintered out. It once was in the 60s and 70s an area most plucked by UNC. When Bill Dooley was hired at VT in the late 70s, the Hokies took control of the recruiting area.

VT is still the top dog in Virginia. They are still in post Beamer mode but they are not in danger of losing to status just because of a few G5 programs. VT is and remains big time football in Virginia.

[WestCoastAggie]

Meanwhile... MEAC can and should raid the CIAA and other fellow HBCUs in D-II... what do you think?

https://theanalyst.com/na/2024/09/conference-realignment-meac-expansion-division-ii-hbcus

The MEAC is actually looking at Clark-Atlanta, Morehouse, and Tuskegee as the Virginia CIAA schools aren't all that interested.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Huh? I don't think KSt is even close to the smallest. Probably a top 10, of the smallest, but not the smallest (unless you meant public P4). And that includes whether counting just undergrads or total students. WF, Duke, ND, Vandy, and BC are all smaller. Wake is the overall winner with just about 9K total and only 5500 undergrads. Vandy is only slightly bigger.

* smallest public institution (excluding the service academies)

[ElCid]

* smallest public institution (excluding the service academies)

Makes sense, but then again, the service academies are not really P4 material and haven't been for 60 years or so. Which is kind of sad. Yeah, they get the occasional W over some big teams, but so do many of G5. But it's a niche path to follow for most players. But the lines seem to be blurring on who is really G5 and P4/5 lately. Lol.

[jacksfan29!]

The academies aren't P4. But he is 100% incorrect in saying K State is the smallest.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Makes sense, but then again, the service academies are not really P4 material and haven't been for 60 years or so. Which is kind of sad. Yeah, they get the occasional W over some big teams, but so do many of G5. But it's a niche path to follow for most players. But the lines seem to be blurring on who is really G5 and P4/5 lately. Lol.

I only put the service academies in as a caveat since Army just joined the G5 (after being an Indy; not P4 or G5 ) and Air Force being now in limbo of sorts. Navy has been in the G5 for several years now after life as an Indy.

[Sitting Bull]

I only put the service academies in as a caveat since Army just joined the G5 (after being an Indy; not P4 or G5 ) and Air Force being now in limbo of sorts. Navy has been in the G5 for several years now after life as an Indy.

I don’t think Navy considers themselves G5 - nor do most in the AAC. They actively promoted P6 flags, may still do. Not to say they aren’t technically G5 but the Navy people I know do not consider - or don’t want to consider - MAC, Sunbelt or Laughably CUSA as peers.

[ElCid]

I don’t think Navy considers themselves G5 - nor do most in the AAC. They actively promoted P6 flags, may still do. Not to say they aren’t technically G5 but the Navy people I know do not consider - or don’t want to consider - MAC, Sunbelt or Laughably CUSA as peers.

Exactly. They are old school. People who grew up with the majors clearly delineated never want to think of teams like Marshall, Boise St, UNLV, Louisiana "X", or any of these late comers, let alone the JMUs, JSUs, and the like, as real players. But they still see teams like SMU, Rice, Tulane, Temple, any of the academies as legit due to their legacy of time. It's funny to see how different people view it. You can call it snobbery.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I don’t think Navy considers themselves G5 - nor do most in the AAC. They actively promoted P6 flags, may still do. Not to say they aren’t technically G5 but the Navy people I know do not consider - or don’t want to consider - MAC, Sunbelt or Laughably CUSA as peers.


.....THERE YOU GO AGAIN.....xnonox....BRAWK!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The academies aren't P4. But he is 100% incorrect in saying K State is the smallest.

Yeah I prefaced it a bit incorrectly, or at the very least in a muddled fashion. The academies place in college football is nonetheless unique as displayed by other's posts in this thread.

Institutionally, K-State is similar in profile to NDSU, Missouri State, & Southern Illinois than the average P4 institution. And to me, that's a wonderful thing....

[NY Crusader 2010]

Meanwhile... MEAC can and should raid the CIAA and other fellow HBCUs in D-II... what do you think?

https://theanalyst.com/na/2024/09/conference-realignment-meac-expansion-division-ii-hbcus

The only schools that have moved up to DI/FCS from DII and moved BACK to DII this century seem to be HCBU's, so perhaps that's why we haven't seen much more movement.

I got invited to the Howard-Morehouse game Saturday at MetLife. Don't think I'm going to make it though unfortunately.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The only schools that have moved up to DI/FCS from DII and moved BACK to DII this century seem to be HCBU's, so perhaps that's why we haven't seen much more movement.

I got invited to the Howard-Morehouse game tomorrow at MetLife. Don't think I'm going to make it though unfortunately.

Savannah State is the most well known. Who else? I'm racking my brain....

[aceinthehole]

Savannah State is the most well known. Who else? I'm racking my brain....

Winston-Salem (technically not D-I, they dropped during transition)

Morris Brown

Northeastern Illinois (No football - technically not a HBCU)

[NY Crusader 2010]

Morris Brown I think dropped athletics due to financial struggles -- the school may have either temporarily closed or been at risk of closing down at one point. I don't think they've had varsity athletics since 2003 or 2004.

Northeastern Illinois I believe cut all varsity athletics as well. They didn't have football but were in the Horizon League IIRC until the late 90's. I THINK the school still exists.

Birmingham-Southern => dropped to D3 and eventually closed down after this past academic year. They were a big ESPN story as their baseball team played deep into the DIII CWS even while their school didn't officially exist and their coaches and support staff were no longer on official payroll, working for free.

U. of New Orleans => dropped from DI to DII during post-Katrina financial struggles but only for a few years. I actually went to an LSU - UNO baseball game in 2009 in New Orleans. Can't remember if that was before or after they dropped down and moved back up.

St. Francis of Brooklyn cut all varsity athletics effective this year.

University of Hartford dropped from DI to DIII a couple years back.

These aren't HBCU's but just my recollection of recent schools moving down from DI to DII/DIII or dropping sports. The 2 HBCUs I remember were Savannah and Winston-Salem dropping down.

[aceinthehole]

Since the NCAA established the current Divisional structure for the 1973-74 season, a total of 19 schools have reclassified out of Division I or have dropped athletics entirely.




School
Affiliation
Last Year
D-I Seasons
Status


St. Francis (NY)
Private
2023
104
Dropped Athletics


Hartford
Private
2023
39
D-III


Savannah State
Public-HBCU
2019
17
D-II


Centenary (La.)
Private
2011
52
D-III


Birmingham-Southern
Private
2006
5
D-III


Morris Brown
Private-HBCU
2003
2
Dropped Athletics


Northeastern Illinois
Public
1998
8
Dropped Athletics


Brooklyn College
Public
1992
25
D-III


Augusta State
Public
1991
7
D-II


U.S. International
Private
1991
10
Dropped Athletics


Hardin-Simmons
Private
1990
45
D-III


Armstrong State
Public
1987
1
D-II


Utica
Private
1987
6
D-III


West Texas A&M
Public
1986
54
D-II


Oklahoma City
Private
1985
35
NAIA


Baltimore
Public
1983
5
Dropped Athletics


West Chester
Public
1982
10
D-II


Catholic
Private
1981
13
D-III


Cal State Los Angeles
Public
1975
5
D-II

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yeah I prefaced it a bit incorrectly, or at the very least in a muddled fashion. The academies place in college football is nonetheless unique as displayed by other's posts in this thread.

Institutionally, K-State is similar in profile to NDSU, Missouri State, & Southern Illinois than the average P4 institution. And to me, that's a wonderful thing....

Very cool, schools like that and others you talked about prior like Fort Hays State...just goes to show a school doesn't need to have the national academic clout of a Harvard, Vanderbilt, Villanova or NYU to be a real bedrock institution for a local community or region. I've had the pleasure of visiting South Dakota State and would say same about that school.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I recall New Orleans reclassifying for a period of time. There were questions if the institution would even exist following Katrina. The Privateers have had some good men's basketball teams over the years. I remember them randomly showing up in the Top 25 for a week or two in the 1990s. Baseball also has a solid tradition.

Hartford made national news iirc when their men's basketball coach went on a lengthy rant following the administration's decision to leave D1 iirc.

Did any of these have football? Maybe Morris Brown?

West Chester University moved from D1 to D2 in the early to mid 1980s....I think? They might have been one of the first?.....

[aceinthehole]

Northeastern Illinois I believe cut all varsity athletics as well. They didn't have football but were in the Horizon League IIRC until the late 90's. I THINK the school still exists.

St. Francis of Brooklyn cut all varsity athletics effective this year.


Northeastern Illinois (NEIU) was last a member of the Mid-Continent Conference (now Summit League) in 1997-98. CCSU left the Mid-Con for the NEC that season.

CCSU also shared conference membership 2 other schools that dropped out of D-I --- St. Francis Brooklyn in the NEC and Brooklyn College in the old East Coast Conference.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Since the NCAA established the current Divisional structure for the 1973-74 season, a total of 19 schools have reclassified out of Division I or have dropped athletics entirely.




School
Affiliation
Last Year
D-I Seasons
Status


St. Francis (NY)
Private
2023
104
Dropped Athletics


Hartford
Private
2023
39
D-III


Savannah State
Public-HBCU
2019
17
D-II


Centenary (La.)
Private
2011
52
D-III


Birmingham-Southern
Private
2006
5
D-III


Morris Brown
Private-HBCU
2003
2
Dropped Athletics


Northeastern Illinois
Public
1998
8
Dropped Athletics


Brooklyn College
Public
1992
25
D-III


Augusta State
Public
1991
7
D-II


U.S. International
Private
1991
10
Dropped Athletics


Hardin-Simmons
Private
1990
45
D-III


Armstrong State
Public
1987
1
D-II


Utica
Private
1987
6
D-III


West Texas A&M
Public
1986
54
D-II


Oklahoma City
Private
1985
35
NAIA


Baltimore
Public
1983
5
Dropped Athletics


West Chester
Public
1982
10
D-II


Catholic
Private
1981
13
D-III


Cal State Los Angeles
Public
1975
5
D-II




Great info! And I was correct with my West Chester belief! I was typing the above post without knowing you supplied this list....

U.S. International was infamous in the college basketball circles in the 1980s and very early 1990s for their run and gun style.. They and Loyola-Marymount played highest scoring game in D1 history when Kimble and Gathers were in LA.

[aceinthehole]

Did any of these have football? Maybe Morris Brown?

West Chester University moved from D1 to D2 in the early to mid 1980s....I think? They might have been one of the first?.....

I'm not exactly sure for all of them, but most of these schools didn't play football. I think Birmingham-Southern might have.

Also, don't forget prior to 1993, they may have been D-I athletics, but D-II or D-III in football. I'm not sure what level West Texas A&M played football while they were in D-I. I assume West Chester remained D-II football, while they played their other sports at D-I during that period.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'm not exactly sure for all of them, but most of these schools didn't play football. I think Birmingham-Southern might have.

Also, don't forget prior to 1993, they may have been D-I athletics, but D-II or D-III in football. I'm not sure what level West Texas A&M played football while they were in D-I. I assume West Chester remained D-II football, while they played their other sports at D-I during that period.

I think Catholic may have been DI in basketball only back when that was allowed, pre-Dayton rule. West Chester I'm pretty certain was DII in football, as they were Delaware's big rival and UD was D-II until either the late 1970's or early 1980's. Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell I think were also DII in football but DI in other sports. Yankee Conference was the same during the 70's prior to the creation of I-AA -- DII football but DI in other sports.

[Libertine]

I'm not exactly sure for all of them, but most of these schools didn't play football. I think Birmingham-Southern might have.


Morris Brown had football.

BSC didn't have football when they were D1. They added football at the same time that they dropped to D3 which, at the time, should have been a giant red flag about the sustainability of the university.

[caribbeanhen]

Great info! And I was correct with my West Chester belief! I was typing the above post without knowing you supplied this list....

U.S. International was infamous in the college basketball circles in the 1980s and very early 1990s for their run and gun style.. They and Loyola-Marymount played highest scoring game in D1 history when Kimble and Gathers were in LA.

was Kimble the incredible outside shooter... ?

I think UMES should be on the list, unless they dropped football before 1973 ... google is my friend

[aceinthehole]

Great info! And I was correct with my West Chester belief! I was typing the above post without knowing you supplied this list....

U.S. International was infamous in the college basketball circles in the 1980s and very early 1990s for their run and gun style.. They and Loyola-Marymount played highest scoring game in D1 history when Kimble and Gathers were in LA.

Yep. Thanks. Central Connecticut has played many schools on this list in basketball, including US International in San Diego. :D

CCSU made the move to D-I a few years after Utica and one season after Hartford, back in the 1980s, and all 3 schools were looking to get into the ECAC-North, soon to be North Atlantic Conf (now America East). At the time Brooklyn College was also looking for a home. Hartford got the invite and the other had toiled away in many awkward arraignments. Central has outlasted them all :)

Like West Chester, I think Utica had football, but never reclassed that sport to I-AA in the pre-Dayton Rule era

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

was Kimble the incredible outside shooter... ?

I think UMES should be on the list, unless they dropped football before 1973 ... google is my friend

Jeff Fryer was their awesome outside shooter! I'm very thankful to have been just old enough to appreciate the 1989-90 LMU team. Growing up in Eastern PA, natural ties to Philly, definitely personalized that team, the Gathers tragedy, and the ensuing Elite 8 run since both Hank and Bo were from Dobbins Tech....

[OhioHen]

was Kimble the incredible outside shooter... ?

I think UMES should be on the list, unless they dropped football before 1973 ... google is my friend
The overall list was about changing divisions or dropping athletics altogether. The Hawks still participate in other sports.

[aceinthehole]

The overall list was about changing divisions or dropping athletics altogether. The Hawks still participate in other sports.

Correct. This is a list of school that have dropped their entire athletic program (basketball, et al) out of D-I and is not a list of football programs that have changed division/subdivisions.


To get back to the question posed, only 3 schools are former I-AA (FCS) teams that currently play football at a lower level:

West Texas A&M - Currently D-II, was I-AA 1982-1985
Savannah State - Currently D-II; was FCS 2000-2018
Winston-Salem State - Currently D-II; was FCS 2006-2009*

*Technically, WSU did not complete their reclassification and was never officially D-I/FCS.

[ST_Lawson]

Northeastern Illinois I believe cut all varsity athletics as well. They didn't have football but were in the Horizon League IIRC until the late 90's. I THINK the school still exists.

Someone else already mentioned that NEIU was Mid-Con, not Horizon, but they do still exist. About 5.5k students, only intramural and club sports now. They're located in Chicago and, I think, are mostly a commuter campus that has a lot of computer science and business students.

[ngineer]

I appreciate those sentiments as I have expended a great deal of energy and spent a tremendous amount of time learning more about our country's higher education institutions. However, no one can ever truly account for every college/university, let alone the infinite nuances that differentiate the one's we think we have a firm cognitive grasp of. There's no question my lifelong love of college sports (especially PL/IL athletics) greatly contributed to both my unusual fascination with college sports and academia at an early age. This rather transcended process has obviously evolved with age and continued formal education. With that said, just last week I learned about an institution, Franklin Pierce, that I have never heard of despite calling a state i'm quite familiar with, New Hampshire, home for 62 years. Moral of the story, there's always more to learn and AGS (in addition to formal education mediums) provides an incredible platform to expand one's horizons when it comes to higher education.

KU has a pretty respectable football history pre-1970s. Since then, outside of a few good seasons under Glen Mason (he was a really good coach!) in the 1990s and a 3 year run of success under Mangino (highlighted by 2007) the Jayhawks have been in the dumps. While Gale Sayers is easily their most highly regarded football alum, the school has produced numerous other influential players.

K-State arrived on the national scene in 1993 when they went 9-2-1 and finished ranked #18/#20. From that point until now (Ron Prince era somewhat excluded as 'Cats really didn't bottom out) K-State has easily been one of the most successful FBS programs in the country. So while the highest level of Kansas football has not attained anywhere close to the elite success their neighbors to the north (Nebraska) and to the south (Oklahoma) have, outside of 1970s and 1980s Sun Flower State college football has had a positive presence nationally.

K-State's football culture is awesome! They really do it right; i.e. major program without a commercialized/impersonal feel. The stadium/facilities are top notch without being pretentious and the players/coaches tend to be good people. People also don't realize just how small K-State is; with an undergrad enrollment of just over 15,000 it's the smallest P4 institution in the country. For reference K-State is slightly larger than West Chester University (PSAC member). The institution's long history of punching above its weight class is what drew me to it over the University of Delaware for my doctoral work.

I hadn't heard of them, either, until 2003 when my son was looking at colleges who have a major focus in aviation. He wanted to be a commercial pilot, and failed the strict physical requirements at Navy and Air Force. Very few other schools where you can "major" in aviation and graduate with a commercial pilot certificate. That's when we came across Franklin Pierce. Nice little school in a gorgeous state. Son, doing his homework, ended up going south realizing that due to weather concerns, students going to northern states generally had to go an extra semester or two to graduate. Ended up going to Florida Institute of Technology and 'living his dream' now an airline pilot for 15 years...

[bonarae]

Morehouse is quite serious about moving up... are they?

https://hbcugameday.com/2024/09/13/morehouse-football-hc-hints-at-possible-move-to-division-i/