AGS Poll Results 2024 Week 2

[AGSPoll]

9/9/2024



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1243
44


2
North Dakota State Bison
1178
3


3
Montana State Bobcats
1162
3


4
Idaho Vandals
1091



5
Villanova Wildcats
1055



6
South Dakota Coyotes
970



7
Montana Grizzlies
836



8
Southern Illinois Salukis
832



9
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
791



10
Central Arkansas Bears
759



11
Sac State Hornets
672



12
Chattanooga Mocs
584



13
UC Davis Aggies
567



14
William & Mary Tribe
503



15
Incarnate Word Cardinals
464



16
Mercer Bears
395



17
Youngstown State Penguins
337



18
Albany Great Danes
299



19
Lafayette Leopards
291



20
Nicholls Colonels
240



21
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
214



22
Weber State Wildcats
198



23
Elon Phoenix
191



24
Illinois State Redbirds
185



25
Tarleton Texans
165
















ORV:




26
Furman Paladins
158



27
Abilene Christian Wildcats
127



28
Richmond Spiders
122



29
Wofford Terriers
117



30
Western Carolina Catamounts
75



31
Northern Iowa Panthers
64



32
Campbell Fighting Camels
61



33
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
51



34
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
48



35
Florida A&M Rattlers
41



36
St. Francis Red Flash
29



37
New Hampshire Wildcats
23



38
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
17



39
Charleston Southern Buccaneers
16



40
Harvard Crimson
12
















Most Significant Win:
North Dakota Fighting Hawks






Most Significant Loss:
Montana Grizzlies

[Chalupa Batman]

For your viewing of pleasure:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Idaho Vandals
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
10: Chattanooga Mocs
11: Montana Grizzlies
12: Elon Phoenix
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Abilene Christian Wildcats
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Mercer Bears
17: Nicholls Colonels
18: Campbell Fighting Camels
19: Sac State Hornets
20: Youngstown State Penguins
21: UC Davis Aggies
22: Southern Illinois Salukis
23: Wofford Terriers
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

The Most Significant Win: Campbell Fighting Camels
The Most Significant Loss: Furman Paladins

[SeattleCat]

My Take:


1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sac State Hornets
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Albany Great Danes
15: Lafayette Leopards
16: Mercer Bears
17: Youngstown State Penguins
18: UC Davis Aggies
19: Weber State Wildcats
20: Elon Phoenix
21: St. Francis Red Flash
22: Tarleton Texans
23: Abilene Christian Wildcats
24: Illinois State Redbirds
25: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks

SeattleCat

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Furman Paladins

[smilo]

Y'all know Iowa State is a top 25 FBS team, right? Why is North Dakota outside the top 5 or 6?

[SFA 93]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Idaho Vandals
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: UC Davis Aggies
11: Sac State Hornets
12: North Dakota
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Tarleton Texans
15: Elon Phoenix
16: Lafayette Leopards
17: Florida A&M Rattlers
18: Illinois State Redbirds
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Weber State Wildcats
23: Youngstown State Penguins
24: Mercer Bears
25: Wofford Terriers

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Furman Paladins

[Professor Chaos]

This week's top 25 poll article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-2-top-25-results-6/

I was a little surprised to see Montana's soft landing but there hasn't been a whole lot of teams clamoring to move up with their performances so far this season - still it would've been nice to see Montana below UND in the consensus. The top side of the poll is still very MVFC and Big Sky heavy so there will be opportunities from teams from other leagues to move up into the top 10 or maybe even top 5 if they can roll through their own conferences.

[uofmman1122]

I'm gonna need you guys to justify putting us over UND.

[Professor Chaos]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Idaho Vandals
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: UC Davis Aggies
11: Sac State Hornets
12: North Dakota
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Tarleton Texans
15: Elon Phoenix
16: Lafayette Leopards
17: Florida A&M Rattlers
18: Illinois State Redbirds
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Weber State Wildcats
23: Youngstown State Penguins
24: Mercer Bears
25: Wofford Terriers

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Furman Paladins
No UND in your top 25 despite them being your most significant win and beating your #7 team???

[RahRahRabbits]

No UND in your top 25 despite them being your most significant win and beating your #7 team???

He has them there at #12.

[Professor Chaos]

My shot at it this week:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Chattanooga Mocs
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: UC Davis Aggies
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Central Arkansas Bears
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Mercer Bears
16: Albany Great Danes
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Incarnate Word Cardinals
19: Lafayette Leopards
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: Illinois State Redbirds
22: Nicholls Colonels
23: Elon Phoenix
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Weber State Wildats


Open to hearing the argument for William & Mary. Just not seeing the justification for them in the top 25 at all yet much less the #14 they are in the consensus given they lost 5 of their final 7 to end 2023 and only have a blowout win over VMI and a blowout loss to Coastal Carolina on the slate so far this season.

[Chalupa Batman]

I'm gonna need you guys to justify putting us over UND.

I had UND ahead of Montana, but the consensus having UM 2 spots ahead of UND isn't that egregious IMO. A 3 point loss at their place would mean you're pretty close to even since the general consensus is that home field is worth 3 points. While I don't agree with it, I think it is at least defensible. If you were still more than 2-3 spots ahead of them I'd have a big problem with that.

[Professor Chaos]

He has them there at #12.
Ah, good call! Was scanning for "Hawks" and didn't see it but missed the "North Dakota".

[uofmman1122]

I had UND ahead of Montana, but the consensus having UM 2 spots ahead of UND isn't that egregious IMO. A 3 point loss at their place would mean you're pretty close to even since the general consensus is that home field is worth 3 points. While I don't agree with it, I think it is at least defensible. If you were still more than 2-3 spots ahead of them I'd have a big problem with that.
Did you watch the 2nd half? There is no way that Montana team is a top 10-15 FCS team.

[MSUBobcat]

I had UND ahead of Montana, but the consensus having UM 2 spots ahead of UND isn't that egregious IMO. A 3 point loss at their place would mean you're pretty close to even since the general consensus is that home field is worth 3 points. While I don't agree with it, I think it is at least defensible. If you were still more than 2-3 spots ahead of them I'd have a big problem with that.

Beat me to the "home field advantage" reasoning for those that have UM above UND, especially when the game was a missed FG attempt at the end of the 4th from going to OT. That's about as evenly matched as 2 teams can play. I'd personally like to see the team that won by a whisker ranked 1 spot higher than the one that fell short, but not doing so isn't egregious, IMO.

[RahRahRabbits]

Did you watch the 2nd half? There is no way that Montana team is a top 10-15 FCS team.

Bad halves do happen. I admit haven't watched it yet, but I'll give you acknowledgement that the stat summary looked pretty bad.

Ya'lls Griz will be fine though. You can thank your run to Frisco last year for people giving you guys the benefit of the doubt for sketchy early season results.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: Chattanooga Mocs
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Incarnate Word Cardinals
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
12: Tarleton Texans
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Lafayette Leopards
15: Yale Bulldogs
16: Youngstown State Penguins
17: Elon Phoenix
18: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
19: Nicholls Colonels
20: Mercer Bears
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Sac State Hornets
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Eastern Illinois Panthers
25: Harvard Crimson

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Furman Paladins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

[MTfan4life]

Furman is 0-2 coming off a loss at home to an unranked team they were favored to beat by 20. Why are they still receiving votes at this point? They can earn votes back, but at this point it's hard to argue they're a ranked team.

[MSUBobcat]

Bad halves do happen. I admit haven't watched it yet, but I'll give you acknowledgement that the stat summary looked pretty bad.

Ya'lls Griz will be fine though. You can thank your run to Frisco last year for people giving you guys the benefit of the doubt for sketchy early season results.

Stat lines for both teams left a lot to be desired. Montana State's #1 rushing offense is licking its chops looking at the 243 net rushing yards the Griz allowed to UND though. xholyx

[Preferred Walk-On]

Y'all know Iowa State is a top 25 FBS team, right? Why is North Dakota outside the top 5 or 6?

Probably because those within the Top 5 or 6 will be hard to bump with a showing where the outcome was never, ever in doubt (Iowa State 21 - North Dakota 7). Also, the ranking of FBS Top 25 teams is a lot like our FCS rankings...there are so many teams that COULD be 21-25, but SHOULD they be? The Cyclones just barely beat an Iowa team that had no business being ranked in the Top 25. I think it is OK for North Dakota to be a Top 10 team and allow them to prove Top 5 by playing their MVFC schedule out.

[RahRahRabbits]

Ah, good call! Was scanning for "Hawks" and didn't see it but missed the "North Dakota".

SFA 93 must be living in the 2012-2015 era, citing the nameless football club of North Dakota. I still think they should have retained their original mascot nickname though, despite any potential NCAA sanctions! The awesomeness and uniqueness of the Flickertails is truly unmatched.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Did you watch the 2nd half? There is no way that Montana team is a top 10-15 FCS team.

Were the Griz a Top 10-15 team in the first half? Were the Fighting Hawks a Top 10-15 team in the first half? I guess it is good that they play 60 and not 30. But if it makes you feel any better, I do not think Montana is a Top 10 team...at least at this point. However, we are exactly two games in, so we'll see.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/8/2024 17:46:43

Your vote is listed below.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Chattanooga Mocs
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Nicholls Colonels
11: Incarnate Word Cardinals
12: Montana Grizzlies
13: Sac State Hornets
14: Southern Illinois Salukis
15: Tarleton Texans
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
18: Mercer Bears
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
21: Elon Phoenix
22: Lafayette Leopards
23: Campbell Fighting Camels
24: Youngstown State Penguins
25: Drake Bulldogs

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Richmond Spiders
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Preferred Walk-On]

For your viewing of pleasure:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Idaho Vandals
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
10: Chattanooga Mocs
11: Montana Grizzlies
12: Elon Phoenix
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Abilene Christian Wildcats
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Mercer Bears
17: Nicholls Colonels
18: Campbell Fighting Camels
19: Sac State Hornets
20: Youngstown State Penguins
21: UC Davis Aggies
22: Southern Illinois Salukis
23: Wofford Terriers
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

The Most Significant Win: Campbell Fighting Camels
The Most Significant Loss: Furman Paladins

I had a difficult time ranking SEMO more than a couple of spots (let alone Top 10) higher than UT-Martin after an OT win at home. Thoughts?

[Preferred Walk-On]

My shot at it this week:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Chattanooga Mocs
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: UC Davis Aggies
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Central Arkansas Bears
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Mercer Bears
16: Albany Great Danes
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Incarnate Word Cardinals
19: Lafayette Leopards
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: Illinois State Redbirds
22: Nicholls Colonels
23: Elon Phoenix
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Weber State Wildats


Open to hearing the argument for William & Mary. Just not seeing the justification for them in the top 25 at all yet much less the #14 they are in the consensus given they lost 5 of their final 7 to end 2023 and only have a blowout win over VMI and a blowout loss to Coastal Carolina on the slate so far this season.

To be clear, this is not a justification for W&M; however, how are their results different from UC Davis thus far? If UC Davis is #11, then surely W&M can be ranked, and I might argue closer to UC Davis than one might think.

[Outsider1]

It is getting tougher. Did I move a team up too much or soft land another a little too softly when I shouldn't have? There are a couple I almost took out completely but couldn't quite justify bringing in anyone else quite yet, so I held off to pull them out next week if they continue to perform as they are and others continue to prove themselves. Others I did remove. I tried to make corrections where needed without overcorrecting. At this point, I just hope to have a decent enough base to be able to really work with.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Furman is 0-2 coming off a loss at home to an unranked team they were favored to beat by 20. Why are they still receiving votes at this point? They can earn votes back, but at this point it's hard to argue they're a ranked team.

You'll get no argument here.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

To be clear, this is not a justification for W&M; however, how are their results different from UC Davis thus far? If UC Davis is #11, then surely W&M can be ranked, and I might argue closer to UC Davis than one might think.

I only have two CAA teams ranked. I'm not sure what people see in Albany and to a lesser extent W&M. Heck, if Lehigh puts forth a strong performance against LIU maybe they deserve Top 25 consideration at 2-1? They don't....lol....

UNH showed pretty well against a depleted still talented Holy Cross team. Towson is a program I can't figure out....

[POD Knows]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Idaho Vandals
4: North Dakota State Bison
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Sac State Hornets
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Chattanooga Mocs
15: Youngstown State Penguins
16: Mercer Bears
17: Wofford Terriers
18: Richmond Spiders
19: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
20: Nicholls Colonels
21: Incarnate Word Cardinals
22: Illinois State Redbirds
23: Tarleton Texans
24: Lafayette Leopards
25: Elon Phoenix

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Montana Grizzlies

[POD Knows]

Furman is 0-2 coming off a loss at home to an unranked team they were favored to beat by 20. Why are they still receiving votes at this point? They can earn votes back, but at this point it's hard to argue they're a ranked team.
Agree completely, I blew them out of my poll

[Preferred Walk-On]

I only have two CAA teams ranked. I'm not sure what people see in Albany and to a lesser extent W&M. Heck, if Lehigh puts forth a strong performance against LIU maybe they deserve Top 25 consideration at 2-1? They don't....lol....

UNH showed pretty well against a depleted still talented Holy Cross team. Towson is a program I can't figure out....

To be even more clear, I probably have W&M too high (16) and UC Davis too low (just unranked), so I am not even saying I have it right. But what is the difference between Cal and Coastal, as those are really the only tests UC Davis and W&M have had thus far, and they both lost, by about the same margin. I do think that the collective AGS poll indicates this really well, with UC Davis #13 and W&M #14. I'm with you on Albany though, and I can't wait to see Towson in the Fargodome (different opponent).

[SeattleCat]

I'm gonna need you guys to justify putting us over UND.

Gris win on a neutral field. but the top 7-11 are really close IMO

[SFA 93]

SFA 93 must be living in the 2012-2015 era, citing the nameless football club of North Dakota. I still think they should have retained their original mascot nickname though, despite any potential NCAA sanctions! The awesomeness and uniqueness of the Flickertails is truly unmatched.

I had a fellow worker who was a North Dakota Alumni and gave me a North Dakota Fighting Sioux t-shirt. This was like the late 1990's.
I wish I still had that shirt, but I wore it out from wearing it too much, as it was a good fit and soft.

The reason my Top 25 didn't have Hawks was because I messed up on entering the teams on the page when i was putting my new Top 25 and I had UC Davis down twice, so I switched it out forgetting to put Hawks.

But Fighting Sioux would be better :)

[Reign of Terrier]

I think the best argument for william and mary being ranked (not sure if i believe it!) is that Bronson Yoder went out early-ish last year. Just a damn good player who plays a huge part in their offense, and he’s back this year. Reminds me of Eric Breitenstein back in the day. That offense they have is pretty stellar when it’s working and they bring back a veteran team.

The kicker/best counterpoint is that offense got found out somewhat last year, averaging about only 21 points a game. Is Yoder worth that much? And many of those starters on that defense that got them in the top 10 2 years ago aren’t there anymore. They lost their OC (who basically invented their offense) to the NFL and one of their defensive coaches is now at A&T, i think. So as much continuity there is on that offense, it’s the inverse on defense.

I’ll be honest, i’m not impressed with smacking VMI, especially watching the highlight reel. We talk about games not telling us much, and that was one because all I saw was VMI not sticking to assignments, taking the bait, missing tackles, dropping passes. But that doesn’t mean W&M isn’t good, just that if they’re good, we haven’t seen it yet in a game where they had the best opportunity to look good while the other team also looked good.

But we’ll learn a lot from how they play wofford.

[MSUBobcat]

You'll get no argument here.

I don't think even FUBeAR can argue for them legitimately. I mean... he WILL, but not because he believes it. Chuck South lost to the Bell Hops in their own building, then goes on the road and beats Furple? And their other game was a 76 point drubbing where they didn't get past the Ole Miss 37, not even threatening to score a point? I know Ole Miss is really good but damn. Leaning pretty heavily on last year.

[Professor Chaos]

To be clear, this is not a justification for W&M; however, how are their results different from UC Davis thus far? If UC Davis is #11, then surely W&M can be ranked, and I might argue closer to UC Davis than one might think.
My justification is UC Davis finished last year much stronger than W&M did winning their last 3 which including a win in their final game over a Sac St team that made the playoffs and won a road game in the playoffs. I probably have UC Davis overrated but I'm still giving them credit for momentum at the end of the 2023 season that W&M didn't have.

[Mike296]

Got very ill over the weekend and couldn’t do the poll this week. I ended up in the ER and am slowly improving. After looking at results for this week i probably would have had UND at 7 this week after the win over Montana. The poll this week looks a bit off but since I couldn’t vote this weekend I’ll save my judgement for next week.

[uofmman1122]

Gris win on a neutral field. but the top 7-11 are really close IMO
I'm not convinced they do, but I guess there's a lot of games left to find out.

[MSUBobcat]

My justification is UC Davis finished last year much stronger than W&M did winning their last 3 which including a win in their final game over a Sac St team that made the playoffs and won a road game in the playoffs. I probably have UC Davis overrated but I'm still giving them credit for momentum at the end of the 2023 season that W&M didn't have.

William & Mary has to do something to get that 55-7 shellacking in Bozeman to end their 2022 season out of my memory. 6-5 with no notable wins in 2023 and beating up on VMI ain't doing it.

- - - Updated - - -


Got very ill over the weekend and couldn’t do the poll this week. I ended up in the ER and am slowly improving. After looking at results for this week i probably would have had UND at 7 this week after the win over Montana. The poll this week looks a bit off but since I couldn’t vote this weekend I’ll save my judgement for next week.

Hope your feeling better, Mike!

[Chalupa Batman]

I had a difficult time ranking SEMO more than a couple of spots (let alone Top 10) higher than UT-Martin after an OT win at home. Thoughts?

Good call that there's probably had too wide of a gap between those two. As far as SEMO being top 10: They looked pretty good against North Alabama in week 0 (especially considering DeLaurent went out in the 2nd quarter), led FBS New Mexico State (a team that went bowling last year) until the last 2 minutes of the game, and then the aforementioned win against UT-Martin. There's not much difference between their resume and Central Arkansas resume IMO.

I probably should've had the Skyhawks a little closer to the Redhawks, I don't know that I would've moved them up any higher than 17 or so.

[POD Knows]

William & Mary has to do something to get that 55-7 shellacking in Bozeman to end their 2022 season out of my memory. 6-5 with no notable wins in 2023 and beating up on VMI ain't doing it.

- - - Updated - - -



Hope your feeling better, Mike!Do you have Albany in your poll? I would guess the same principle with respect to playoff ass kicking would apply there as well

[Tribe4SF]

I think the best argument for william and mary being ranked (not sure if i believe it!) is that Bronson Yoder went out early-ish last year. Just a damn good player who plays a huge part in their offense, and he’s back this year. Reminds me of Eric Breitenstein back in the day. That offense they have is pretty stellar when it’s working and they bring back a veteran team.

The kicker/best counterpoint is that offense got found out somewhat last year, averaging about only 21 points a game. Is Yoder worth that much? And many of those starters on that defense that got them in the top 10 2 years ago aren’t there anymore. They lost their OC (who basically invented their offense) to the NFL and one of their defensive coaches is now at A&T, i think. So as much continuity there is on that offense, it’s the inverse on defense.

I’ll be honest, i’m not impressed with smacking VMI, especially watching the highlight reel. We talk about games not telling us much, and that was one because all I saw was VMI not sticking to assignments, taking the bait, missing tackles, dropping passes. But that doesn’t mean W&M isn’t good, just that if they’re good, we haven’t seen it yet in a game where they had the best opportunity to look good while the other team also looked good.

But we’ll learn a lot from how they play wofford.

Yoder was not the only loss in game four last year. The wide receiver room was very thin and DreSean Kendrick went down for the season in that Maine game as well. WR has actually become a strength with Kendrick back and the addition of Damian Harris from Bucknell along with Hollis Mathis learning to play as a WR. After falling behind 21-0 at Coastal Carolina the Tribe played them tough the rest of the way and if you haven't seen Coastal play they will be a threat in the Sun Belt this year. Tribe defense is coming together holding Coastal to 2-11 on third down and suffering two egregious PI calls that led to touchdowns.

[SDFS]

Until UND gets the QB position figured out ie passing game. They are at best #20 team. Montana's QB looks good. He is just inconsistent it will just take more game time. That will change throughout the season. Montana is a much better team at this point and they should be ranked above UND as I said until they get the passing game figured out.

[uofmman1122]

Until UND gets the QB position figured out ie passing game. They are at best #20 team. Montana's QB looks good. He is just inconsistent it will just take more game time. That will change throughout the season. Montana is a much better team at this point and they should be ranked above UND as I said until they get the passing game figured out.
Hey, you can't be sandbagging in here, I'm sandbagging in here!

[Preferred Walk-On]

Hey, you can't be sandbagging in here, I'm sandbagging in here!

Apparently, it is a two-sandbagger limit. ;)

[MSUBobcat]

Do you have Albany in your poll? I would guess the same principle with respect to playoff ass kicking would apply there as well

Unfortunately, it's been a few years since I submitted a poll but yes the same principle would apply. Somewhat less so for Albany because the ass kicking was done in the semifinals by the eventual champion vs a run 2 years ago that ended very poorly to just a semifinalist and was followed by a meh year. I don't know where I'd have either of them in my poll, but probably not higher than 18 if ranked at all. Albany was at least a semifinalist one year removed, but a 6 point home win over a very new program is nothing to hang your hat on. W&M didn't qualify for the playoffs last year and is bringing a blowout win over VMI to the table.

It's very early though, so I don't get worked up over where people have teams and seeing other opinions helps remove some of my biases, like with W&M.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Unfortunately, it's been a few years since I submitted a poll but yes the same principle would apply. Somewhat less so for Albany because the ass kicking was done in the semifinals by the eventual champion vs a run 2 years ago that ended very poorly to just a semifinalist and was followed by a meh year. I don't know where I'd have either of them in my poll, but probably not higher than 18 if ranked at all. Albany was at least a semifinalist one year removed, but a 6 point home win over a very new program is nothing to hang your hat on. W&M didn't qualify for the playoffs last year and is bringing a blowout win over VMI to the table.

It's very early though, so I don't get worked up over where people have teams and seeing other opinions helps remove some of my biases, like with W&M.

I think it is sometimes easy to say you wouldn't have a team so high...until you have to figure out who to put ahead of them. ;)

[ElCid]

Agree completely, I blew them out of my poll

Me too. But somebody obviously didn't. I'm really surprised Wofford isn't getting more love. Still early and last year's bias is still showing. For a few teams, both good and bad, helping and hurting.

[MSUBobcat]

I think it is sometimes easy to say you wouldn't have a team so high...until you have to figure out who to put ahead of them. ;)

100%. Most years those at the 15 and above range is a bunch of teams you don't want to rank, but you have to hold your nose and fill the spots with somebody. Hell, even the UND, UM placement is tough. Did both teams have a half where the defenses were lights out, or are both offenses somewhat anemic? Looking at the stat lines and then placing them both in the top 9 teams, I have to assume we're giving credit for the defensive performances. xlolx 320 total yards for UM, 340 for UND.

Just scanning at the bottom of the rankings/ORV, I think I'd have ACU, Wofford and maybe NAU above them somewhere. Maybe a G-W if I'm ranking Wofford and they lost to them by 1, with a 1 TD loss to JMU. Maybe some circular logic to say 2023-bubblicious WCU played NC State tough then had a 1 score loss to a Campbell team that must be better than I think and add both in to the bottom 5. xlolx That probably doesn't drop both W&M and Albany out altogether however, and your point is well taken that at the bottom, especially early on and with the transfer portal, it's easy to say Team X is too high until you need to find a substitute.

[MSUBobcat]

Me too. But somebody obviously didn't. I'm really surprised Wofford isn't getting more love. Still early and last year's bias is still showing. For a few teams, both good and bad, helping and hurting.

Same. 2 wins against teams they weren't supposed to beat (playoff teams from last year) and both on the road no less, yet can't crack the top 25. That 2-9 season hanging off their ankle like a "high school sweetheart" that you never should have married. xnonono2x

[caribbeanhen]

Do you have Albany in your poll? I would guess the same principle with respect to playoff ass kicking would apply there as well

Yep, all year long we heard all the hype about the Big Sky, it was good to see Albany get the opportunity to play and beat Idaho in the Potato Palace last year.

[caribbeanhen]

My shot at it this week:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Chattanooga Mocs
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: UC Davis Aggies
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Central Arkansas Bears
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Mercer Bears
16: Albany Great Danes
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Incarnate Word Cardinals
19: Lafayette Leopards
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: Illinois State Redbirds
22: Nicholls Colonels
23: Elon Phoenix
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Weber State Wildats


Open to hearing the argument for William & Mary. Just not seeing the justification for them in the top 25 at all yet much less the #14 they are in the consensus given they lost 5 of their final 7 to end 2023 and only have a blowout win over VMI and a blowout loss to Coastal Carolina on the slate so far this season.

Well if William & Mary was playing Albany this weekend my money would be on W&M

That crushing defeat at Montana State is lingering long in a lot of memories I think, but I get your reasoning.

maybe the Wofford William game will be on ESPN plus so the rest of AGS will be able to see them

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yep, all year long we heard all the hype about the Big Sky, it was good to see Albany get the opportunity to play and beat Idaho in the Potato Palace last year.

You, I and everyone else here knows Idaho is going to light Albany up this weekend at the Kibbie Dome. Lightning ain't striking twice without the Puff Man....

[POD Knows]

Yep, all year long we heard all the hype about the Big Sky, it was good to see Albany get the opportunity to play and beat Idaho in the Potato Palace last year.
I was talking about the Albany ass kicking in Brookings. 😀

[MTfan4life]

I'm surprised St. Francis and Southern Utah didn't get more love. Usually teams get a little more respect for beating an FBS team. Southern Utah, I'm especially surprised by. They were 6-5 last season with 2 FBS losses and their 3 FCS losses were by a combined 7 points to teams who finished a combined 23-11. They had a very similar season to UC Davis last year. They won their last 4 games. It's wild how one of those two is ranked #13 and the other is in the receiving votes lower than a Northern Iowa team who needed a 4th quarter comeback to beat a non-scholarship school who got smoked by an average D2 program. Southern Utah is VASTLY underrated in the polls right now.

[POD Knows]

You, I and everyone else here knows Idaho is going to light Albany up this weekend at the Kibbie Dome. Lightning ain't striking twice without the Puff Man....
Idaho might be down to their 3rd string QB. They will probably still win because I think Albany stinks this year but the game might be closer than you think.

[SDFS]

Hey, you can't be sandbagging in here, I'm sandbagging in here!

Good luck, I was in GF in 1996 and 1997. I know how to sandbag. And don't get me started on the National Weather Service (NWS) River Crest Analysis.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Idaho might be down to their 3rd string QB. They will probably still win because I think Albany stinks this year but the game might be closer than you think.

Good nugget! I was watching the Idaho/Wyoming game on Saturday but didn't realize the Vandals' QB concerns. Even so, I think Idaho wins by 3 scores...

[caribbeanhen]

I was talking about the Albany ass kicking in Brookings. 

I know that but it was a nice opportunity for a reminder

[caribbeanhen]

You, I and everyone else here knows Idaho is going to light Albany up this weekend at the Kibbie Dome. Lightning ain't striking twice without the Puff Man....

Puff the Magic Dragon is huffing and puffing down in South Beach but not seeing any Hurricane time this year

[FU_Paladin08]

South Dakota State



North Dakota State



Villanova



South Dakota



Montana State



Idaho



Montana



Southern Illinois



Chattanooga



Central Arkansas



Sacramento State



Albany



William & Mary



UIW



Tarleton



Mercer



UC Davis



Youngstown State



Weber State



North Dakota



Elon



Lafayette



Furman



Richmond



Western Carolina

[KPSUL]

I had a difficult time ranking SEMO more than a couple of spots (let alone Top 10) higher than UT-Martin after an OT win at home. Thoughts?

I really don't care which 2 teams you're looking at, IMHO after only 2 games into a season there is no justification for ranking the loser higher than the winner, UNLESS perhaps the loser beat a Top 25 FBS team week 1.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm surprised St. Francis and Southern Utah didn't get more love. Usually teams get a little more respect for beating an FBS team. Southern Utah, I'm especially surprised by. They were 6-5 last season with 2 FBS losses and their 3 FCS losses were by a combined 7 points to teams who finished a combined 23-11. They had a very similar season to UC Davis last year. They won their last 4 games. It's wild how one of those two is ranked #13 and the other is in the receiving votes lower than a Northern Iowa team who needed a 4th quarter comeback to beat a non-scholarship school who got smoked by an average D2 program. Southern Utah is VASTLY underrated in the polls right now.
I was ready to throw St Francis a bone and rank them in the 20s after I saw they picked up an FBS win... then I saw what they did in week 1.

[Preferred Walk-On]

I really don't care which 2 teams you're looking at, IMHO after only 2 games into a season there is no justification for ranking the loser higher than the winner, UNLESS perhaps the loser beat a Top 25 FBS team week 1.

I was initially confused by this post, since I was pretty sure I did not rank anyone higher than the team they beat. But if you are directing this to the entire AGS voting community, then I agree with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Preferred Walk-On]

I was ready to throw St Francis a bone and rank them in the 20s after I saw they picked up an FBS win... then I saw what they did in week 1.

^This


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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

To be even more clear, I probably have W&M too high (16) and UC Davis too low (just unranked), so I am not even saying I have it right. But what is the difference between Cal and Coastal, as those are really the only tests UC Davis and W&M have had thus far, and they both lost, by about the same margin. I do think that the collective AGS poll indicates this really well, with UC Davis #13 and W&M #14. I'm with you on Albany though, and I can't wait to see Towson in the Fargodome (different opponent).

Towson is at Villanova this weekend. We'll know how good, even in defeat, Towson is moving forward. While Villanova's offense is still a work in progress (YSU/Colgate is no joke to start the year), their defense is already in midseason form imo.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I was ready to throw St Francis a bone and rank them in the 20s after I saw they picked up an FBS win... then I saw what they did in week 1.

I went with Northern Arizona for my "out of no where" Top 25 team. They showed some fight last year so they were on my radar. Then their performance against Arizona this weekend gave me the ammo to move them into the rankings. I'm a K-State guy and my 'Cats will not be holding Arizona to under 24 points...

I don't have UC Davis or Weber State ranked from the Big Sky....

[Preferred Walk-On]

I was initially confused by this post, since I was pretty sure I did not rank anyone higher than the team they beat. But if you are directing this to the entire AGS voting community, then I agree with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let’s try this again: “did not rank any team lower than the team they beat” or “ did not rank any team higher than the team that beat them”. #StrikeThatReverseIt


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[FU_Paladin08]

Furman is 0-2 coming off a loss at home to an unranked team they were favored to beat by 20. Why are they still receiving votes at this point? They can earn votes back, but at this point it's hard to argue they're a ranked team.
Completely understandable. For me it’s harder to fall out when you start in the poll, and harder to move up unless you start in the poll. I put Furman, Richmond, and Western as low as I could this week without dropping them outside the top 25. All 3 have FBS losses and bad FCS losses. Week 3 will determine a lot about those teams.

[wcugrad95]

I dropped Furman, WCU, and Richmond out. I agree that in most polls teams stick around usually too long and it is always hard to move up. But the AGS poll is very dynamic and changes frequently. All 3 of those teams can win some games convincingly and be re-evaluated.

WCU had an absolute clunker and honestly I know they are better than that. But they are 0-2 with a “good” FBS loss and for now a “bad” FCS performance. Beat Elon and make people think Saturday was an anomaly and they will be back in my poll and probably lots of others.

As mentioned, 2 games in is still hard to know about lots of teams. Heck - Campbell could be this year’s darling team out of nowhere for all I know at this stage.

[mvemjsunpx]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. South Dakota St. (1)
2. Montana St. (2)
3. North Dakota St. (4)
4. Villanova (4)
5. South Dakota (6)
6. Idaho (8)
7. Central Arkansas (9)
8. North Dakota (14)
9. UC Davis (7)
10. Montana (5)
11. Southeast Missouri St. (23)
12. Tennessee-Chattanooga (10)
13. Youngstown St. (13)
14. Sacramento St. (16)
15. Southern Illinois (19)
16. Florida A&M (18)
17. William & Mary (20)
18. Tennessee-Martin (12)
19. Abilene Christian (21)
20. Nicholls St. (22)
21. Southern Utah (NR)
22. Campbell (NR)
23. Elon (NR)
24. Lafayette (17)
25. Western Carolina (11)

Dropped - Furman (15), Illinois St. (24), Lamar (25)


W - North Dakota
L - Furman

[ElCid]

I dropped Furman, WCU, and Richmond out. I agree that in most polls teams stick around usually too long and it is always hard to move up. But the AGS poll is very dynamic and changes frequently. All 3 of those teams can win some games convincingly and be re-evaluated.



Me too. Furman has absolutely no business being in right now. I dropped them out first followed by Richmond and then WCU. All based on who they lost to. Teams stick around too long for a number of reasons. Last year's bias hangs too long, fan hopefulness, pumping your opponents, etc. I really have tried to fight leaving teams in too long and not moving up worthy teams even though they are not darlings. It is hard sometimes with the early FBS games, but even they show something. And I will mention that all three of those teams is a better candidate for "significant Loss" considering the movement of the poll. Not sure that people understand what is actually significant. A team moving a few spots or a team from a top ten or top 15 to out. Always puzzles me.

[Catbooster]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: Southern Illinois Salukis
11: UC Davis Aggies
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Nicholls Colonels
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Campbell Fighting Camels
18: Abilene Christian Wildcats
19: Lafayette Leopards
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: Furman Paladins
22: Youngstown State Penguins
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Mercer Bears
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Richmond Spiders

[kdinva]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: South Dakota Coyotes
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: William & Mary Tribe
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Mercer Bears
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: UC Davis Aggies
17: Youngstown State Penguins
18: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
19: Northern Iowa Panthers
20: New Hampshire Wildcats
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Albany Great Danes
23: Furman Paladins
24: Western Carolina Catamounts
25: Weber State Wildcats



The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Eastern Washington Eagles

[Outsider1]

I'm surprised St. Francis and Southern Utah didn't get more love. Usually teams get a little more respect for beating an FBS team. Southern Utah, I'm especially surprised by. They were 6-5 last season with 2 FBS losses and their 3 FCS losses were by a combined 7 points to teams who finished a combined 23-11. They had a very similar season to UC Davis last year. They won their last 4 games. It's wild how one of those two is ranked #13 and the other is in the receiving votes lower than a Northern Iowa team who needed a 4th quarter comeback to beat a non-scholarship school who got smoked by an average D2 program. Southern Utah is VASTLY underrated in the polls right now.

I think they are going to start getting it.

[FU_Paladin08]

Me too. Furman has absolutely no business being in right now. I dropped them out first followed by Richmond and then WCU. All based on who they lost to. Teams stick around too long for a number of reasons. Last year's bias hangs too long, fan hopefulness, pumping your opponents, etc. I really have tried to fight leaving teams in too long and not moving up worthy teams even though they are not darlings. It is hard sometimes with the early FBS games, but even they show something. And I will mention that all three of those teams is a better candidate for "significant Loss" considering the movement of the poll. Not sure that people understand what is actually significant. A team moving a few spots or a team from a top ten or top 15 to out. Always puzzles me.

The only defense I have for these three is its week 2 with an FBS loss. I’m willing to wait for 2 FCS games before making any drastic changes.

[MSUBobcat]

The only defense I have for these three is its week 2 with an FBS loss. I’m willing to wait for 2 FCS games before making any drastic changes.

IMO, one of these is not like the other 2. WCU was looking to scalp a ranked NC State before running out of gas and then lost to now-ORV Campbell by 8. Not great but 2 "decent" losses. Richmond lost by 21 to Virginia and by 7 to now-ORV Wofford (should be ranked, if you ask me). Their FBS game was never in question, but at least they scored and held UVA to 34 points. Again, not great but 2 "decent" losses. Furman got dump trucked by Ole Miss, with their BEST chance of putting up any points being at the start of the 2nd when they opted out of a 55 yard FGA and turned it over on downs at the Ole Miss 37. I know... Ole Miss is VERY good and I was giving Furman the benefit of the doubt for not showing up whatsoever. But then they lost in Greenville to a Chuck South that lost at home to El Cid, who was winless just 1 year ago. 2 pretty bad losses for a supposed top 25 team. xtwocentsx

[ElCid]

IMO, one of these is not like the other 2. WCU was looking to scalp a ranked NC State before running out of gas and then lost to now-ORV Campbell by 8. Not great but 2 "decent" losses. Richmond lost by 21 to Virginia and by 7 to now-ORV Wofford (should be ranked, if you ask me). Their FBS game was never in question, but at least they scored and held UVA to 34 points. Again, not great but 2 "decent" losses. Furman got dump trucked by Ole Miss, with their BEST chance of putting up any points being at the start of the 2nd when they opted out of a 55 yard FGA and turned it over on downs at the Ole Miss 37. I know... Ole Miss is VERY good and I was giving Furman the benefit of the doubt for not showing up whatsoever. But then they lost in Greenville to a Chuck South that lost at home to El Cid, who was winless just 1 year ago. 2 pretty bad losses for a supposed top 25 team. xtwocentsx

That is pretty much how my thinking went. And while all three might be deserving of a top 25 ranking, there were others teams, after two games, who deserve it more based on performance to date. The biggest one being Wofford. There are others.

[nodak651]

Probably because those within the Top 5 or 6 will be hard to bump with a showing where the outcome was never, ever in doubt (Iowa State 21 - North Dakota 7). Also, the ranking of FBS Top 25 teams is a lot like our FCS rankings...there are so many teams that COULD be 21-25, but SHOULD they be? The Cyclones just barely beat an Iowa team that had no business being ranked in the Top 25. I think it is OK for North Dakota to be a Top 10 team and allow them to prove Top 5 by playing their MVFC schedule out.

I agree. UND needs to prove that the QB can throw the ball before a top 5 ranking becomes reasonable, IMO.

Edit: Just saw the post below... I'd agree with that as well for the most part. I think 10-20 makes the most sense though - polls should reward teams when the have a top 5 win two games into the season.


Until UND gets the QB position figured out ie passing game. They are at best #20 team. Montana's QB looks good. He is just inconsistent it will just take more game time. That will change throughout the season. Montana is a much better team at this point and they should be ranked above UND as I said until they get the passing game figured out.

[nodak651]

Beat me to the "home field advantage" reasoning for those that have UM above UND, especially when the game was a missed FG attempt at the end of the 4th from going to OT. That's about as evenly matched as 2 teams can play. I'd personally like to see the team that won by a whisker ranked 1 spot higher than the one that fell short, but not doing so isn't egregious, IMO.

Not wrong, but it was a 55 yarder. Kind of semantics, but just saying it wasn't like it was a shanked kick or something. Montana had 1 first down in the second half.

[FUBeAR]

IMO, one of these is not like the other 2. WCU was looking to scalp a ranked NC State before running out of gas and then lost to now-ORV Campbell by 8. Not great but 2 "decent" losses. Richmond lost by 21 to Virginia and by 7 to now-ORV Wofford (should be ranked, if you ask me). Their FBS game was never in question, but at least they scored and held UVA to 34 points. Again, not great but 2 "decent" losses. Furman got dump trucked by Ole Miss, with their BEST chance of putting up any points being at the start of the 2nd when they opted out of a 55 yard FGA and turned it over on downs at the Ole Miss 37. I know... Ole Miss is VERY good and I was giving Furman the benefit of the doubt for not showing up whatsoever. But then they lost in Greenville to a Chuck South that lost at home to El Cid, who was winless just 1 year ago. 2 pretty bad losses for a supposed top 25 team. xtwocentsx
Your initial sentence is true. You just singled out the wrong one that is not like the others.

For all the reasons you mentioned, WCU’s 2 losses are not horrible. The one counter-caveat FUBeAR would note though - WCU’s only TD came as a result of getting their own FG blocked…against a Team that has given up about 40 points per game in their last dozen or so games. For a Team that hangs their hat on their high-scoring O, this is a 911 EMERGENCY.

OTOH - not much difference in the “quality” of Richmond and FU’s losses - other than the way you spun them.

Wofford, at this point in ‘24, is about the same as ChuckSouth. CSU didn’t suck quite as bad as Woffy in ‘23 and Woffy may be better than CSU in ‘24 - but we really don’t know - not enough data yet. But we do know Ole Miss is a Top 5 NFLite Team with a $20 million Player Payroll and UVa is not. Massey sez the Rebels beat the Hoos by 3 scores. FUBeAR sez it would be more.

We get that you Big Sky’s hate Furman, specifically, and the SoCon in general, but you’re not being objective here.

Furman’s losses have been bad, bad, bad - as have Richmond’s, as best we can tell, at this point.


BTW - WCU Fans - look at FUBeAR stickin’ up for the Catamounts - singling them out for positive recognition. Proof positive that FUBeAR doesn’t hate WCU any worse than any other Team he hates.

[POD Knows]

Not wrong, but it was a 55 yarder. Kind of semantics, but just saying it wasn't like it was a shanked kick or something.
Montanas idiotic offensive play calling and idiotic offensive execution at the end of the game cost them a chance to take it to overtime.

[nodak651]

Montanas idiotic offensive play calling and idiotic offensive execution at the end of the game cost them a chance to take it to overtime.
You referring to the last drive or the entire second half?

[Reign of Terrier]

My hot take on FCS rankings is that no one should be ranked before October and the ranking shouldn't go past 16. There's way too many practical difficulties with the early FCS schedule, limited cross conference pollination, and stuff like the transfer portal. And I've been watching FCS football long enough, and trolling the boards to say that early on in the season there's always someone way too high and no one knows anything about anyone ranked 16-25 for the entire season.

25 is a cool round-feeling number, but even at the FBS level, top 15 or 16 is where it's at

[MSUBobcat]

Not wrong, but it was a 55 yarder. Kind of semantics, but just saying it wasn't like it was a shanked kick or something. Montana had 1 first down in the second half.

Yes, it was a 55 yarder because the 2 plays prior lost them 7 yards so the game-tying FG was not a 47-48 yarder (or closer if they tried runs to play for a tie rather than going for a 1st down and a win). And that doesn't mean he would have made a 40-45 yarder either, as he doesn't have one that long in his 2-game Griz career.

As for the bolded part, if you're arguing that both teams looked a bit suspect for 1/2 the game.... I don't disagree. But I'm willing to give them both a bit of the benefit of the doubt in that it was the D imposing their will versus both offenses are anemic. Time will tell.

[POD Knows]

You referring to the last drive or the entire second half?
LOL good one but the UND D is mostly responsible for the hapless Montana O for the late second quarter and 2nd half issues. I also get that Montana wanted to win the game in Reg but my God, the end of that game was ugly on their part.

[MSUBobcat]

Your initial sentence is true. You just singled out the wrong one that is not like the others.

For all the reasons you mentioned, WCU’s 2 losses are not horrible. The one counter-caveat FUBeAR would note though - WCU’s only TD came as a result of getting their own FG blocked…against a Team that has given up about 40 points per game in their last dozen or so games. For a Team that hangs their hat on their high-scoring O, this is a 911 EMERGENCY.

OTOH - not much difference in the “quality” of Richmond and FU’s losses - other than the way you spun them.

Wofford, at this point in ‘24, is about the same as ChuckSouth. CSU didn’t suck quite as bad as Woffy in ‘23 and Woffy may be better than CSU in ‘24 - but we really don’t know - not enough data yet. But we do know Ole Miss is a Top 5 NFLite Team with a $20 million Player Payroll and UVa is not. Massey sez the Rebels beat the Hoos by 3 scores. FUBeAR sez it would be more.

We get that you Big Sky’s hate Furman, specifically, and the SoCon in general, but you’re not being objective here.

Furman’s losses have been bad, bad, bad - as have Richmond’s, as best we can tell, at this point.


BTW - WCU Fans - look at FUBeAR stickin’ up for the Catamounts - singling them out for positive recognition. Proof positive that FUBeAR doesn’t hate WCU any worse than any other Team he hates.

Wofford '24 is about the same as CSU at this point?!? Now who's not being objective xlolx Wofford has 2 wins over 2023 playoff teams including one on the road, narrow as they may have been. CSU lost to the Citade, whose last win was 2022, at home no less.

As for hating Furman, this doesn't hold any water. As far as I know, we've played Furman once, a 31-13 playoff victory in which I actually sat in the "Furman section" in Bobcat Stadium. The interaction with the fans who made the trip was amicable and enjoyable. There's no reason for me to hold any ill will to the program.

[POD Knows]

Yes, it was a 55 yarder because the 2 plays prior lost them 7 yards so the game-tying FG was not a 47-48 yarder (or closer if they tried runs to play for a tie rather than going for a 1st down and a win). And that doesn't mean he would have made a 40-45 yarder either, as he doesn't have one that long in his 2-game Griz career.

As for the bolded part, if you're arguing that both teams looked a bit suspect for 1/2 the game.... I don't disagree. But I'm willing to give them both a bit of the benefit of the doubt in that it was the D imposing their will versus both offenses are anemic. Time will tell.
In the post game presser, did Hauck state that he was surprised that UND ran their QB a lot because they are not deep at that position?

[SeattleCat]

In the post game presser, did Hauck state that he was surprised that UND ran their QB a lot because they are not deep at that position?

Hauck's just an ahole.

[MSUBobcat]

My hot take on FCS rankings is that no one should be ranked before October and the ranking shouldn't go past 16. There's way too many practical difficulties with the early FCS schedule, limited cross conference pollination, and stuff like the transfer portal. And I've been watching FCS football long enough, and trolling the boards to say that early on in the season there's always someone way too high and no one knows anything about anyone ranked 16-25 for the entire season.

25 is a cool round-feeling number, but even at the FBS level, top 15 or 16 is where it's at

Waiting until October to start rankings has been debated ad nauseum here. Some believe it's best to wait so prior year results don't taint opinions and make it harder to move up or down; others believe the early practice and criticism results in better overall rankings. No need to continue to rehash it; if you are a member of the former, stay out of the Poll threads until October; simple.

As for not ranking past 16.... there is a 24-team playoff system in FCS. Even with a couple unranked auto-bids, we need to rank the top 22 teams.

[nodak651]

LOL good one but the UND D is mostly responsible for the hapless Montana O for the late second quarter and 2nd half issues. I also get that Montana wanted to win the game in Reg but my God, the end of that game was ugly on their part.
I wasn't joking! In the OC's defense, the bubble screen, which I believe was the last play before the final field goal, worked well for them in the first half of the game.

[FUBeAR]

Wofford '24 is about the same as CSU at this point?!? Now who's not being objective xlolx Wofford has 2 wins over 2023 playoff teams including one on the road, narrow as they may have been. CSU lost to the Citade, whose last win was 2022, at home no less.

As for hating Furman, this doesn't hold any water. As far as I know, we've played Furman once, a 31-13 playoff victory in which I actually sat in the "Furman section" in Bobcat Stadium. The interaction with the fans who made the trip was amicable and enjoyable. There's no reason for me to hold any ill will to the program.
“2 Playoff Teams” is also spin. Gardner-Webb’s 2023 Team - Coaches & best Players now reside in Johnson City, TN. G-W ‘24 is akin to the replacement Teams the NFL has used in strike years.

Richmond ‘23 lost to Morgan State & Hampton, but still CAA-scheduled their way into the Playoffs and got a fortuitous draw and round 1 home game. Absolutely, a paper spider.

Happy that Woffy seems to be on the way back, but the current uncertainty of their revival, at this point, and the clear difference in Ole Miss and UVa is what renders your premise that separated Furman from the ‘de-rankable’ herd flawed.

WCU, of those 3, might, deserve a ‘pass.’ Richmond does not.

[MSUBobcat]

“2 Playoff Teams” is also spin. Gardner-Webb’s 2023 Team - Coaches & best Players now reside in Johnson City, TN. G-W ‘24 is akin to the replacement Teams the NFL has used in strike years.

Richmond ‘23 lost to Morgan State & Hampton, but still CAA-scheduled their way into the Playoffs and got a fortuitous draw and round 1 home game. Absolutely, a paper spider.

Happy that Woffy seems to be on the way back, but the current uncertainty of their revival, at this point, and the clear difference in Ole Miss and UVa is what renders your premise that separated Furman from the ‘de-rankable’ herd flawed.

WCU, of those 3, might, deserve a ‘pass.’ Richmond does not.

Opinions are like assholes....

I have repeatedly noted that Ole Miss is a very good team. Regardless of how good Ole Miss is, a team worthy of ranking should at least get past the opposing team's 37 yard line at least ONCE in a 60 minute game. In my opinion. xcoffeex

[Reign of Terrier]

All I will say about Gardner Webb is that they definitely don't suck. Yes, they're a completely new team, but they had like 20 FBS transfers, and lots of transfers from high major FCS teams like Austin Pray, Illinois State, etc. Riddell missed some throws against JMU, but I still think he's probably a top 20 FCS QB. GW runs a style of football that's conducive of success more so than their predecessor. They want to run the ball. They run a 4 man front on defense.

Someone close to the Wofford program he "heard" that GW may be better than last year, in spite of the changes. We'll see. Regardless, the more impressive thing about wofford's win was that they did it without knowing 100% the kind of defense the running bulldogs were going to run. They prepared for 3 different looks over the off-season, and ended up seeing 2.

[FUBeAR]

Opinions are like assholes....

I have repeatedly noted that Ole Miss is a very good team. Regardless of how good Ole Miss is, a team worthy of ranking should at least get past the opposing team's 37 yard line at least ONCE in a 60 minute game. In my opinion. xcoffeex
Fine - don’t rank any of them.

FUBeAR’s point is that Richmond’s 2 bad losses are not materially better than Furman’s 2 bad losses.

If you choose to develop your assessments based upon some arbitrary “penetration” metric you have conjured up, you be you.

FUBeAR prefers to look at the totality of of the games and the quality of the opponents, all within the relative context of all Teams within the subdivision, apply liberal objectivity, and rank accordingly. But that’s just FUBeAR.

Plenty of tied High School Football playoff games were decided on “penetration” back in the 60’s and 70’s. Some people must have agreed with you that it is a useful assessment tool.

[uofmman1122]

In the post game presser, did Hauck state that he was surprised that UND ran their QB a lot because they are not deep at that position?
This was such a weird quote to me, because they "ran" their QB 5 times in the entire game before they had tied it up, 2 of which were scrambles on pass plays, and 1 was a broken play where the QB dropped the ball and couldn't run the RPO. 4 QB power runs total in the game, with half of them coming in their final drive. It's not like they suddenly starting running veer or QB power on every play.

[MSUBobcat]

Fine - don’t rank any of them.

FUBeAR’s point is that Richmond’s 2 bad losses are not materially better than Furman’s 2 bad losses.

If you choose to develop your assessments based upon some arbitrary “penetration” metric you have conjured up, you be you.

FUBeAR prefers to looks at the totality of of the games and the quality of the opponents, all within the relative context of all Teams within the subdivision, apply liberal objectivity, and rank accordingly. But that’s just FUBeAR.

Plenty of tied High School Football playoff games were decided on “penetration” back in the 60’s and 70’s. Some people must have agreed with you that it is a useful assessment tool.

Don't worry... I didn't. I didn't even rank South Dakota State or my own Montana State Bobcats. xdrunkyx

"Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man." xcoolx (As a former financial statement auditor, I know that materiality is a subjective metric)

Can you please point me to another team that lost 76-0 and ended that season in the FCS playoffs? Maybe with a similar historical result, you can sway my "arbitrary" evaluation.

Pretty sure we all do this, but because of SUBJECTIVITY, all results are not equal. But obviously, FUBeAR's evaluation is the only "correct" answer.

Learned something new today. Thanks.

[FUBeAR]

All I will say about Gardner Webb is that they definitely don't suck. Yes, they're a completely new team, but they had like 20 FBS transfers, and lots of transfers from high major FCS teams like Austin Pray, Illinois State, etc. Riddell missed some throws against JMU, but I still think he's probably a top 20 FCS QB. GW runs a style of football that's conducive of success more so than their predecessor. They want to run the ball. They run a 4 man front on defense.

Someone close to the Wofford program he "heard" that GW may be better than last year, in spite of the changes. We'll see. Regardless, the more impressive thing about wofford's win was that they did it without knowing 100% the kind of defense the running bulldogs were going to run. They prepared for 3 different looks over the off-season, and ended up seeing 2.
GWU certainly gave JMU a better game than FBS Charlotte did. GWU plays Charlotte this week. So, at 0-2, if they can get the scalp, then win their next 3 - TennTech, TN-Martin, and PC, at 4-2, FUBeAR would support your assessment. But…not yet. They are 0-2.

Also, Riddell has always been an interesting QB. FUBeAR is not a big fan. He’ll have to have a big step-up in performance to be a Top 20 FCS QB. Currently ranked #65 in “Passing Efficiency” - QB Rating.

[FUBeAR]

Don't worry... I didn't. I didn't even rank South Dakota State or my own Montana State Bobcats. xdrunkyx

"Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man." xcoolx (As a former financial statement auditor, I know that materiality is a subjective metric)

Can you please point me to another team that lost 76-0 and ended that season in the FCS playoffs? Maybe with a similar historical result, you can sway my "arbitrary" evaluation.

Pretty sure we all do this, but because of SUBJECTIVITY, all results are not equal. But obviously, FUBeAR's evaluation is the only "correct" answer.

Learned something new today. Thanks.
Mercer lost 73-7 to Lane Kiffin’s Ole Miss Team in 2023. Then they beat FCS #10 on the road, finished 9-3 in FCS, only lost to 2 Top 10 Ranked Teams (#1 & #7) & 1 Top 20, and won a Playoff game.

Does that work or are Mercer’s 1 75 yard TD run on their 1st play from scrimmage and that 3 point difference by the Ole Miss O “material” in your professional opinion?

[kdinva]

My hot take on FCS rankings is that no one should be ranked before October

AMEN, and for all College athletic polls.

FB} should be 2nd monday in October.
BkBall} should be 2nd monday in January.
baseball} should be 2nd monday in March.

[Chalupa Batman]

My hot take on FCS rankings is that no one should be ranked before October and the ranking shouldn't go past 16. There's way too many practical difficulties with the early FCS schedule, limited cross conference pollination, and stuff like the transfer portal. And I've been watching FCS football long enough, and trolling the boards to say that early on in the season there's always someone way too high and no one knows anything about anyone ranked 16-25 for the entire season.

25 is a cool round-feeling number, but even at the FBS level, top 15 or 16 is where it's at

I get the thinking here, but it's a convenient way to help excite the casual fans. Take the Nicholls @ Sac State matchup this weekend.... Depending on which poll you look at, Sac State is #11 and Nicholls is #20, #23, or #24. Sac State can advertise that they are playing a top 25 team this weekend (along with advertising the high ranking of their own team). Without that there wouldn't be much of a way for them to drum up enthusiasm for this game for the casual fan.

I do think the playoff selection committee shouldn't be paying attention to the polls early in the season, and at the end of the season only gauge the quality of wins based on where teams finished the season and not where they were at the time. A win over a top 10 team in week 2 isn't that big of a deal if that team ends up finishing 5-6 at the end of the year.

[ElCid]

All I will say about Gardner Webb is that they definitely don't suck. Yes, they're a completely new team, but they had like 20 FBS transfers, and lots of transfers from high major FCS teams like Austin Pray, Illinois State, etc. Riddell missed some throws against JMU, but I still think he's probably a top 20 FCS QB. GW runs a style of football that's conducive of success more so than their predecessor. They want to run the ball. They run a 4 man front on defense.

Someone close to the Wofford program he "heard" that GW may be better than last year, in spite of the changes. We'll see. Regardless, the more impressive thing about wofford's win was that they did it without knowing 100% the kind of defense the running bulldogs were going to run. They prepared for 3 different looks over the off-season, and ended up seeing 2.

I definitely think they are better. I initially didn't. But after watching a good bit of their game against JMU, I was converted. They are definitely a good win for Wofford. I hate the entire transfer thing ruining college ball, but that doesn't impact my opinion of them.

[caribbeanhen]

My hot take on FCS rankings is that no one should be ranked before October and the ranking shouldn't go past 16. There's way too many practical difficulties with the early FCS schedule, limited cross conference pollination, and stuff like the transfer portal. And I've been watching FCS football long enough, and trolling the boards to say that early on in the season there's always someone way too high and no one knows anything about anyone ranked 16-25 for the entire season.

25 is a cool round-feeling number, but even at the FBS level, top 15 or 16 is where it's at

I think your reasoning is compounded in the transfer portal and NIL era. Even the diehard’s are having trouble keeping track of their own teams roster much less what’s going on across the entire landscape of FCS football….

having said that, it’s good fun and we like to make our points and bust on each other

[MSUBobcat]

Mercer lost 73-7 to Lane Kiffin’s Ole Miss Team in 2023. Then they beat FCS #10 on the road, finished 9-3 in FCS, only lost to 2 Top 10 Ranked Teams (#1 & #7) & 1 Top 20, and won a Playoff game.

Does that work or are Mercer’s 1 75 yard TD run on their 1st play from scrimmage and that 3 point difference by the Ole Miss O “material” in your professional opinion?

Mercer was ranked 19th after that drubbing (https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-1-top-25-results-4/) and had a Week 0 win over tUNA that buoyed them because tUNA beat Chatty that week, rather than losing to the conference door mat like FU. Had the Lions not beaten UTC, I think Mercer also would not have been ranked after Week 2, and a win over North Alabama >>>> losing at home to a team that also lost to the Citadel, so I think that supports not having Furman ranked. Maybe last week was a hangover from the Ole Miss game, dunno. They can work their way back in with the W&M game, assuming they don't stub their toes against the 2-0 Stetson Mad Hatters.

FWIW, the home loss to Chuck South is a much bigger lead weight around Furman than the Ole Miss beatdown to me.

Anyway, it's early in the year so I'm not going to waste any more time on the discussion of a single team's ranking. I literally do not care about Furman that much (see, no hate!).

[ElCid]

A win over a top 10 team in week 2 isn't that big of a deal if that team ends up finishing 5-6 at the end of the year.

This is wisdom. When I look at teams by weeks 9-12, I look at who they beat "in the current poll." If they beat the #10 team year in week two, and that team isn't even in the top 25 any more and/or just receiving a few diehard votes or none, that early win over a "ranked" opponent has zero impact on my evaluation. It's just another win. All it means is that team never was #10 material. The voters simply got it wrong. I might qualify that if a team had some major issues with key injuries or unexpected coaching changes. But everything being equal? No.

[ElCid]

Mercer was ranked 19th after that drubbing (https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-1-top-25-results-4/) and had a Week 0 win over tUNA that buoyed them because tUNA beat Chatty that week, rather than losing to the conference door mat like FU. Had the Lions not beaten UTC, I think Mercer also would not have been ranked after Week 2, and a win over North Alabama >>>> losing at home to a team that also lost to the Citadel, so I think that supports not having Furman ranked. Maybe last week was a hangover from the Ole Miss game, dunno. They can work their way back in with the W&M game, assuming they don't stub their toes against the 2-0 Stetson Mad Hatters.

FWIW, the home loss to Chuck South is a much bigger lead weight around Furman than the Ole Miss beatdown to me.

Anyway, it's early in the year so I'm not going to waste any more time on the discussion of a single team's ranking. I literally do not care about Furman that much (see, no hate!).

Ouch, for my Bulldogs. Just FYI, we are much better than last year. Not great, but on the upswing. We got a player at QB this year. Grad transfer from Liberty. Don't carry the bias too long....

[wmmii]

My shot at it this week:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: South Dakota Coyotes
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Chattanooga Mocs
9: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: UC Davis Aggies
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Central Arkansas Bears
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Mercer Bears
16: Albany Great Danes
17: Abilene Christian Wildcats
18: Incarnate Word Cardinals
19: Lafayette Leopards
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: Illinois State Redbirds
22: Nicholls Colonels
23: Elon Phoenix
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Weber State Wildats


Open to hearing the argument for William & Mary. Just not seeing the justification for them in the top 25 at all yet much less the #14 they are in the consensus given they lost 5 of their final 7 to end 2023 and only have a blowout win over VMI and a blowout loss to Coastal Carolina on the slate so far this season.

Reasonable question.

W&M has back their star RB Yoder who missed the last 7 games last year and have an All American O-line player returning plus an All Conference RB in Imoh. Defense is suspect and the QB play of the 4th year starter needs to be watched. They will have a good challenge at Wofford and this should sort out the matter some.

[FUBeAR]

Can you please point me to another team that lost 76-0 and ended that season in the FCS playoffs? Maybe with a similar historical result, you can sway my "arbitrary" evaluation.
Mercer lost 73-7 to Lane Kiffin’s Ole Miss Team in 2023. Then they beat FCS #10 on the road, finished 9-3 in FCS, only lost to 2 Top 10 Ranked Teams (#1 & #7) & 1 Top 20, and won a Playoff game.


https://i.imgur.com/TaSKjdZ.gif

Mercer was ranked 19th after that drubbing (https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-1-top-25-results-4/) and had a Week 0 win over tUNA that buoyed them because tUNA beat Chatty that week, rather than losing to the conference door mat like FU. Had the Lions not beaten UTC, I think Mercer also would not have been ranked after Week 2, and a win over North Alabama >>>> losing at home to a team that also lost to the Citadel, so I think that supports…

not having Furman ranked…They can work their way back in with the W&M game, assuming they don't stub their toes against the 2-0 Stetson Mad Hatters.

FWIW, the home loss to Chuck South is a much bigger lead weight around Furman than the Ole Miss beatdown to me.

1) Good job with that Grounds Crew work! That goal post is much safer where you moved it.

2) Not sure if it’s a reading comprehension issue or just old fashioned obstinance. Let’s try bold all caps and selected underlining, just to make sure it’s not the former…

FUBeAR’S POINT HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT YOU RANKED FURMAN IN YOUR POLL. FUBeAR DON’T CARE. FUBeAR’S SINGLE POINT IS THAT RICHMOND’S 2 LOSSES ARE ABOUT THE SAME QUALITY-WISE AS FURMAN’S 2 LOSSES. THAT IS ALL.

[FU_Paladin08]

Mercer was ranked 19th after that drubbing (https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-1-top-25-results-4/) and had a Week 0 win over tUNA that buoyed them because tUNA beat Chatty that week, rather than losing to the conference door mat like FU. Had the Lions not beaten UTC, I think Mercer also would not have been ranked after Week 2, and a win over North Alabama >>>> losing at home to a team that also lost to the Citadel, so I think that supports not having Furman ranked. Maybe last week was a hangover from the Ole Miss game, dunno. They can work their way back in with the W&M game, assuming they don't stub their toes against the 2-0 Stetson Mad Hatters.

FWIW, the home loss to Chuck South is a much bigger lead weight around Furman than the Ole Miss beatdown to me.

Anyway, it's early in the year so I'm not going to waste any more time on the discussion of a single team's ranking. I literally do not care about Furman that much (see, no hate!).

I do think the focus should be on the terrible CSU loss and not Ol Miss. Did UTC really do that much better against Tenn? I assume they are still ranked because they don’t have that bad FCS loss.

[Reign of Terrier]

I get the thinking here, but it's a convenient way to help excite the casual fans. Take the Nicholls @ Sac State matchup this weekend.... Depending on which poll you look at, Sac State is #11 and Nicholls is #20, #23, or #24. Sac State can advertise that they are playing a top 25 team this weekend (along with advertising the high ranking of their own team). Without that there wouldn't be much of a way for them to drum up enthusiasm for this game for the casual fan.

I do think the playoff selection committee shouldn't be paying attention to the polls early in the season, and at the end of the season only gauge the quality of wins based on where teams finished the season and not where they were at the time. A win over a top 10 team in week 2 isn't that big of a deal if that team ends up finishing 5-6 at the end of the year.

So, my basic criticism is that it can be harmful at the FCS level, while it's harmless for FBS. Basically, at the FCS level you typically play an FBA team and 2 local-ish FCS teams - that explains like 95% of OOC games. My problem with ranking early is that it creates an anchoring bias that really can't be overcome, and when you have perceptions of some conferences being superior, it's even worse. I remember a few years ago, I want to say it was 2018 or 2019, when Youngstown state started like 2-4 and people refused to un-rank them because their losses were so close, but they ended the yesr very meh. And on the flip side of that, if you're a high major FCS team outside of the CAA/big sky/MVFC, it takes until mid October to get ranked. And all the time you aren't ranked, you're not getting a fair shake for seeding in favor of those teams who look good to biased voters on every measure but win/loss.

Wofford's lucked out this year in that we are probably going to play 3 consecutive ranked teams/top 40 teams and that will boost our ratings. If we're fortunate enough to win and keep the ball rolling we'll be top 15 by mid October. But if those games were at the back end of our schedule or we scheduled normal for POC, we would be lucky to get top 15 at the end of the season because so many slots would go to CAA/MVFC/Big Sky teams that look good but will end up 6-5/7-4.

If you're a socon fan, you're really jaded by polls and perception because Mercer was left out to dry a couple years, and that's actually something of a historical trend for that third or fourth socon team. I can think of 2013 UTC, 2002 Wofford. Crazy stuff


I definitely think they are better. I initially didn't. But after watching a good bit of their game against JMU, I was converted. They are definitely a good win for Wofford. I hate the entire transfer thing ruining college ball, but that doesn't impact my opinion of them.




I think your reasoning is compounded in the transfer portal and NIL era. Even the diehard’s are having trouble keeping track of their own teams roster much less what’s going on across the entire landscape of FCS football….

having said that, it’s good fun and we like to make our points and bust on each other

So this is another hot take, but I think the transfer portal is going to be great for FCS. There are countless 3rd and 4th string players on G5 rosters, who are redshirt freshmen or sophomores and realizing they really want to play the game, not just have the pride of being on scholarship for an FBS team and barely seeing the field. Wofford has a couple players in the secondary and OL who fit this mold. The last couple years, we went to the portal and got better by patching weaknesses.

And the folks coming to wofford, GW, or the citadel aren't going to get big NIL money, though there will be some. I'm a firm believer that in about a year or two, NIL will have some big income inequality to it, if it doesn't already. What I like about FCS football, and this is going to make me sound 30 years older, is that it really is a subdivision of players who are just super happy to being playing ball and getting a free education. There will always be players looking for greener pastures, but it's well known at this point that like 2/3 of players don't move up or even get move parallel when they go to the portal.

Sure, there are going to be Dakota states and Montanas that will have more resources than the rest of the FCS, allowing them to beef up NIL. But at the end of the day, that's only about 400ish players of like 10k at this level. There will be spots. You still have to have a coach that can identify talent in the portal and develop it home-grown. What you'll also see is less "starting from 0" when a new coach comes in, and more of what GW is doing: recruiting the portal to get a better baseline player/squad than you would from starting over.

The FCS is in good shape. All we need is those Dakota states and Montanas to take their rightful place in the FBS :)

[Chalupa Batman]

So, my basic criticism is that it can be harmful at the FCS level, while it's harmless for FBS. Basically, at the FCS level you typically play an FBA team and 2 local-ish FCS teams - that explains like 95% of OOC games. My problem with ranking early is that it creates an anchoring bias that really can't be overcome, and when you have perceptions of some conferences being superior, it's even worse. I remember a few years ago, I want to say it was 2018 or 2019, when Youngstown state started like 2-4 and people refused to un-rank them because their losses were so close, but they ended the yesr very meh. And on the flip side of that, if you're a high major FCS team outside of the CAA/big sky/MVFC, it takes until mid October to get ranked. And all the time you aren't ranked, you're not getting a fair shake for seeding in favor of those teams who look good to biased voters on every measure but win/loss.

Wofford's lucked out this year in that we are probably going to play 3 consecutive ranked teams/top 40 teams and that will boost our ratings. If we're fortunate enough to win and keep the ball rolling we'll be top 15 by mid October. But if those games were at the back end of our schedule or we scheduled normal for POC, we would be lucky to get top 15 at the end of the season because so many slots would go to CAA/MVFC/Big Sky teams that look good but will end up 6-5/7-4.

If you're a socon fan, you're really jaded by polls and perception because Mercer was left out to dry a couple years, and that's actually something of a historical trend for that third or fourth socon team. I can think of 2013 UTC, 2002 Wofford. Crazy stuff



Your observations are certainly valid. Without the polls though it can be very difficult to help draw in casual fans and get them engaged.

I wanted to add on my original comment that early season polls aren't going to go away, so we would be best served to focus efforts on getting voters to recalibrate the way they are voting in the first 5 weeks of the season or so. Their ballots should be very fluid, and not afraid to drop a team from the top 10 down to the bottom of the poll or even out of it completely, and vice versa. AGS does a better job of reacting more quickly than the other polls, but many voters still need to be a better job of being more fluid with their ballots (myself included).

[MSUBobcat]

IMO, one of these is not like the other 2. WCU was looking to scalp a ranked NC State before running out of gas and then lost to now-ORV Campbell by 8. Not great but 2 "decent" losses. Richmond lost by 21 to Virginia and by 7 to now-ORV Wofford (should be ranked, if you ask me). Their FBS game was never in question, but at least they scored and held UVA to 34 points. Again, not great but 2 "decent" losses. Furman got dump trucked by Ole Miss, with their BEST chance of putting up any points being at the start of the 2nd when they opted out of a 55 yard FGA and turned it over on downs at the Ole Miss 37. I know... Ole Miss is VERY good and I was giving Furman the benefit of the doubt for not showing up whatsoever. But then they lost in Greenville to a Chuck South that lost at home to El Cid, who was winless just 1 year ago. 2 pretty bad losses for a supposed top 25 team. xtwocentsx


1) Good job with that Grounds Crew work! That goal post is much safer where you moved it.

2) Not sure if it’s a reading comprehension issue or just old fashioned obstinance. Let’s try bold all caps and selected underlining, just to make sure it’s not the former…

FUBeAR’S POINT HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT YOU RANKED FURMAN IN YOUR POLL. FUBeAR DON’T CARE. FUBeAR’S SINGLE POINT IS THAT RICHMOND’S 2 LOSSES ARE ABOUT THE SAME QUALITY-WISE AS FURMAN’S 2 LOSSES. THAT IS ALL.

And MSUBobcat's point has nothing to do with whether I ranked Furman either, because, not sure if it's a reading comprehension issue or just old fashioned obstinance, I did not submit any poll whatsoever. I thought that would be abundantly clear from the statement that I didn't rank SDSU or my own team, let alone my direct statement to POD Knows in Post #45 of this thread stating as much. My initial point way back then, which you apparently didn't read, was that Furman doesn't deserve to be getting votes.

The above quote was in direct response to FU_Paladin08 stating with Richmond, WCU and Furman being 2 games in and 1 being FBS, he's waiting for 2 FCS before making any drastic changes and I said 1 was not like the other 2. You can have the OPINION that Richmond's losses are equivalent to Furman's. I disagree. Luckily... it will be resolved this weekend if the Chuck South was a bad loss because.... they play at Richmond. It'll all be settled on the field in short order. Hooray! No more discussion necessary, at least from my end.

[FUBeAR]

And MSUBobcat's point has nothing to do with whether I ranked Furman either, because, not sure if it's a reading comprehension issue or just old fashioned obstinance, I did not submit any poll whatsoever. I thought that would be abundantly clear from the statement that I didn't rank SDSU or my own team, let alone my direct statement to POD Knows in Post #45 of this thread stating as much. My initial point way back then, which you apparently didn't read, was that Furman doesn't deserve to be getting votes.

The above quote was in direct response to FU_Paladin08 stating with Richmond, WCU and Furman being 2 games in and 1 being FBS, he's waiting for 2 FCS before making any drastic changes and I said 1 was not like the other 2. You can have the OPINION that Richmond's losses are equivalent to Furman's. I disagree. Luckily... it will be resolved this weekend if the Chuck South was a bad loss because.... they play at Richmond. It'll all be settled on the field in short order. Hooray!Woffy vs. ChuckSouth on a neutral field in a doubleheader with Ole Miss vs. UVa would, mostly, ‘settle it on the field,’ as you state that CSU @ Richmond does - for the purposes of determining whether or not Richmond’s 2 ‘24 losses are not as “bad” Furman’s 2 ‘24 losses, as you posit, and FUBeAR denies. FUBeAR opines they are, more or less, equivalent.

But you are correct, though CSU @ Richmond is certainly not dispositive, it will provide a valuable data point to add to the overall tableau of assessment.

[FU_Paladin08]

Yep. Week 3 should give some solid direction on the has-beens vs up-and-comers so far.

[caribbeanhen]

might this be the year Georgetown cracks the top 25? I saw some talent in the Marist game or at least one

[Redbird 4th & short]

Some insights and "excuses" regarding my ISUr to this point .. injuries to key players mounted early. Below is tally just from our preseason All MVFC list, of which 4 were on several preseason All American lists.

MVFC FIRST TEAM ... all 4 preseason AAs are injured

AA RB Mason Blakemore/King, ILS .. out for season after 1st carry at Iowa
AA WR Dan Sobkowicz, ILS .. clearly playing hurt against UNA, guessing injured at Iowa. Will be relieved if he looks close to 100% against WIU.
AA OL Hunter Zambrano, ILS .. playing hurt, will sit out WIU, possible season ending surgery decision coming soon
AA Edge/LB Amir Abdullah, ILS .. injured in Q3 against Iowa, missed UNA, will miss WIU .. week to week

MVFC SECOND TEAM

DL Jake Anderson, ILS .. ok
LB Tye Niekamp, ILS .. not starting, limited reps while recovering from injury .. week to week ?
DB Keondre Jackson, ILS .. ok

MVFC HONORABLE MENTION

FB Scotty Presson Jr., ILS .. ok
WR Eddie Kasper, ILS .. out for 1 month, due to mono
DL Jake Siegel, ILS .. ok
LB Jalan Gaines, ILS .. ok
LB Lavoise Deontae McCoy, ILS .. ok
DB Mark Cannon Jr., ILS .. injured against Iowa, but looked fine for UNA


Plus injury to starter DT Steffen the week before Iowa game .. out for season. Injury to starting DT Kessler against Iowa ... back for UNA. So we had 5 defensive starters injured before or during Iowa game .. 4 from our front 7, plus a CB.

I know, I know .. injuries are part of the game. And we do have some depth this year, but we're losing a lot of our best players. Hoping some of them are healthy for when we start the MVFC opener against NDSU in game 5.

[atthewbon]

I've been traveling so late posting my poll

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Idaho Vandals
6: South Dakota Coyotes
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: Chattanooga Mocs
10: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
11: Montana Grizzlies
12: Central Arkansas Bears
13: Incarnate Word Cardinals
14: UC Davis Aggies
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Youngstown State Penguins
17: William & Mary Tribe
18: Wofford Terriers
19: Elon Phoenix
20: Campbell Fighting Camels
21: Mercer Bears
22: Abilene Christian Wildcats
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Austin Peay Governors
25: Nicholls Colonels

[caribbeanhen]

might this be the year Georgetown cracks the top 25? I saw some talent in the Marist game or at least one

lmao

[FUBeAR]

lmao
If you can’t laugh at yourself, don’t fret. Everyone else will laugh at you. :D

[caribbeanhen]

If you can’t laugh at yourself, don’t fret. Everyone else will laugh at you. :D

Yes. I’ve always been about the good the bad and the ugly!