JMU: FBS Isn't In Plans [Archive] - AnyGivenSaturday.com

UNH_Alum_In_CT

January 17th, 2008, 03:51 PM

GannonFan

January 17th, 2008, 04:01 PM

Well, I think App really wants to play ECU on a regular basis and I think JMU would be happy to play ECU on a consistent basis.

On one of the other myriad of threads on this subject, I projected an existing league to evolve into a Southeastern version of the MAC/MWC or for a new league to form. I foresee an alignment of ASU, JMU, ODU, ECU, GA Southern, Marshall, Middle Tenn., and other middle to larger public institutions in the SE (Troy, WKU, EKU, TN-Chatty, Jax State, GA State, etc.).

It just seems like a logical evolution, but of course getting that AQ to the Hoop Big Dance will be a stickler. FWIW, from everything I've heard you Blue Hen guys say, I didn't project UDel as part of this group.

Playing ECU is all fine and well, but going into CUSA means you're also playing UTEP and Houston and the like - not exactly a big step up in terms of competition.

I think you could see a conference eventually emerge, but I don't see anything anytime soon - the CAA could opt to move as a whole (you still need a place to play all the non-football sports) as that would keep the basketball AQ in place and since basketball would need to continue to be an important part of the financial puzzle, that's an important issue. Of course, then, the question is what do the members of the CAA who aren't capable/interested in moving to FBS going to do.

bluehenbillk

January 17th, 2008, 04:20 PM

I agree with some of the above sentiments, what exactly would JMU aspire to play in? The MAC? Sun Belt? C-USA??

From reading that article the JMU AD said "we'd all be long gone" by the time they built both sides up.

UNH_Alum_In_CT

January 17th, 2008, 05:50 PM

Playing ECU is all fine and well, but going into CUSA means you're also playing UTEP and Houston and the like - not exactly a big step up in terms of competition.

I think you could see a conference eventually emerge, but I don't see anything anytime soon - the CAA could opt to move as a whole (you still need a place to play all the non-football sports) as that would keep the basketball AQ in place and since basketball would need to continue to be an important part of the financial puzzle, that's an important issue. Of course, then, the question is what do the members of the CAA who aren't capable/interested in moving to FBS going to do.

I wasn't suggesting joining ECU in the current with UTEP and Houston, rather a new association that makes more sense geographically than the current CUSA. The driving force would be to associate with more like minded schools (look at the list of schools that I gave us possibilities) and in many cases reinstate old rivalries rather than a big step up in competition. Did you read my other post on the other thread about the importance of the regular season games?

Yes, the CAA could move up as a whole and it could be the vehicle that this new association gathers under. My proposed association could be an evolved CUSA? Who knows??? But personally, I just don't see the majority of CAA Football schools capable of and/or desiring to go where JMU wants to go. Delaware is certainly capable, but I don't see the interest. UMass probably would be interested, but hasn't shown the financial capability. Towson might have the potential, but they have a long way to go to prove the capability and interest. Forget about the rest. (Just my observations and xtwocentsx)

ERASU2113

January 17th, 2008, 08:54 PM

I wasn't suggesting joining ECU in the current with UTEP and Houston, rather a new association that makes more sense geographically than the current CUSA. The driving force would be to associate with more like minded schools (look at the list of schools that I gave us possibilities) and in many cases reinstate old rivalries rather than a big step up in competition. Did you read my other post on the other thread about the importance of the regular season games?

Yes, the CAA could move up as a whole and it could be the vehicle that this new association gathers under. My proposed association could be an evolved CUSA? Who knows??? But personally, I just don't see the majority of CAA Football schools capable of and/or desiring to go where JMU wants to go. Delaware is certainly capable, but I don't see the interest. UMass probably would be interested, but hasn't shown the financial capability. Towson might have the potential, but they have a long way to go to prove the capability and interest. Forget about the rest. (Just my observations and xtwocentsx)

Couldn't a majority of the CAA move up, and just play in the A-10? I know the A-10 is a basketball conference but isn't a majority of the schools in CAA play b-ball there? It may not happen now, but when/if UNCC eventually creates a football team and already planning to make the jump to FBS, and in the A-10, make it feasable to move up to the A-10?

I mean that's only constant with A-10 basketball having CAA football schools. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't UMass, ODU, Richmond and so on in the A-10?

AppMan

January 17th, 2008, 11:04 PM

James Madison’s $52 million plan to renovate Bridgeforth Stadium does not mean the school is considering a move to Division I-A football, university officials said Monday.

“Absolutely not,” JMU vice president Charlie King said. “We wanted to have, if not the best, one of the best I-AA football facilities in America.”

Yea right!

Fresno St. Alum

January 18th, 2008, 03:10 AM

If no FBS conferences split the only way for the FCS schools thinking about moving up is go Indy or have enough schools from the CAA and or the SoCon split and form an all sports conference where they would only lose their auto-bid for basketball for a year like when the WAC split in the late 90's.

UMass
JMU
Richmond
Delaware
App St.
Georgia So.
Furman
Chattanooga
Jacksonville St.
Charlotte (if they add football)

I know not all of these have interest in moving up now but if more leave they might. This conference I came up with is better than the Sun Belt & MAC. Troy, FAU, CMU, Bowling Green could hang but over this new one is better.

Texas St. too far southwest for this. pray for the Sun Belt to take them.

Monarch Nation

January 18th, 2008, 07:58 AM

Couldn't a majority of the CAA move up, and just play in the A-10? I know the A-10 is a basketball conference but isn't a majority of the schools in CAA play b-ball there? It may not happen now, but when/if UNCC eventually creates a football team and already planning to make the jump to FBS, and in the A-10, make it feasable to move up to the A-10?

I mean that's only constant with A-10 basketball having CAA football schools. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't UMass, ODU, Richmond and so on in the A-10?

ODU has been invited to the A-10 (twice , I believe) and turned it down. We play all sports in the CAA except for those sports the CAA doesn't sponsor (sailing immediately comes to mind).

henfan

January 18th, 2008, 11:18 AM

ERASU2113, A-10 FB is dead, now and forever. It isn't being revived.

Half of CAA FB teams (Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware, Towson, W&M, & JMU) play all sports in the CAA. ODU will make 7 when they come on board.

Here is where CAA affiliate FB members compete for Olympic sports (minus ice hockey):

Villanova (Big East; CAA for MLAX)
Richmond (A-10; CAA for WGolf)
UMass (A-10)
URI (A-10)
UNH (America East)
UMaine (America East)

Appinator

January 18th, 2008, 11:32 AM

I'm just happy that a peer institution is getting the resources that it needs to compete. Congrats either way on a great looking facility.

What I think is going on is much more than what we think. This type of moratorium could be to save institutions big $$$$ from making the move to FBS and then having the NCAA create new higher standards that schools can't meet, forcing them back to a lower division. Statistically, all schools will grow over time due to population demands, and until we have every university with enrollment at 50,000 plus, there is a need to equalize competition on different levels. If JMU or App or whoever's population grows to the point of the small FBS schools, that doesn't warrant an eventual move up, because there are more people at the larger institutions as well. It only makes sense that one FCS school would lead the way in preparing for more students to attend it's games, it's not matter what their division or sub-division, maybe it's good old fashion practicality

henfan

January 18th, 2008, 12:40 PM

I'm just happy that a peer institution is getting the resources that it needs to compete. Congrats either way on a great looking facility.

Now that's something I agree with completely. Congrats to JMU!

Sir William

January 18th, 2008, 02:56 PM

UMass
JMU
Richmond
Delaware
App St.
Georgia So.
Furman
Chattanooga
Jacksonville St.
Charlotte (if they add football)

I know not all of these have interest in moving up now but if more leave they might. This conference I came up with is better than the Sun Belt & MAC. Troy, FAU, CMU, Bowling Green could hang but over this new one is better.

You can take the Paladins out of the quotient. We aren't moving to FBS anytime in the foreseeable future. Why be Duke?

JMU2K_DukeDawg

January 18th, 2008, 03:27 PM

If JMU or App or whoever's population grows to the point of the small FBS schools, that doesn't warrant an eventual move up, because there are more people at the larger institutions as well. It only makes sense that one FCS school would lead the way in preparing for more students to attend it's games, it's not matter what their division or sub-division, maybe it's good old fashion practicality

School population is in no way synonymous with FBS. UVA is a small school with only about 10,000 undergraduates. I believe Wake Forrest and Duke are fairly small as well. Some schools just have decades and decades of alumni who have been giving that have created giant endowments. One of the biggest hurdles for JMU is its endowment.

Slowly JMU is growing its grad programs, which is a key element to being included among the nation's leading universities, but it is one of the state's largest undergraduate schools along with VT, VCU and GMU. Neither VCU nor GMU are heading in the football direction. I'm sure other states have similar disparities between student populations and athletic programs.

Bottom line, it takes money, lots and lots of money. JMU is no where near there financially, but they are making the right moves in the right direction, FCS or FBS.

Appinator

January 18th, 2008, 03:49 PM

School population is in no way synonymous with FBS. UVA is a small school with only about 10,000 undergraduates. I believe Wake Forrest and Duke are fairly small as well. Some schools just have decades and decades of alumni who have been giving that have created giant endowments. One of the biggest hurdles for JMU is its endowment.

Slowly JMU is growing its grad programs, which is a key element to being included among the nation's leading universities, but it is one of the state's largest undergraduate schools along with VT, VCU and GMU. Neither VCU nor GMU are heading in the football direction. I'm sure other states have similar disparities between student populations and athletic programs.

Bottom line, it takes money, lots and lots of money. JMU is no where near there financially, but they are making the right moves in the right direction, FCS or FBS.

That is exactly what I said. Everyone has been discussing how it is obvious that JMU is making a push towards FBS with their growth and these enhancements. There are larger schools in FCS and smaller schools in FBS (the ones that you mentioned) that are there because of their financial situations (others too), and compete accordingly. There is nothing wrong with either.

hapapp

January 18th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Not to dispute the arguments about size but UVA has 15,000 undergrads.

http://www.schev.edu/Reportstats/EnrollmentReportApp/InstProfiles2007/UVA.pdf

Longhorn

January 20th, 2008, 05:09 PM

Not to dispute the arguments about size but UVA has 15,000 undergrads.

http://www.schev.edu/Reportstats/EnrollmentReportApp/InstProfiles2007/UVA.pdf

xscanx Sorry, but technically the first poster was correct. UVA enrolls 14,548 undergrads. UVA has NEVER enrolled 15k undergrads in their history. Which (to use a very recent measuring stick in the news) is why UVA is ranked as a "small school" relative to the number of students enlisting in the Peace Corp. ("Small schools" in the Peace Corp listing are defined as schools enrolling fewer than 15k undergrads).

But to quell any objections I'll play along and stipulate UVA has "almost 15k" undergrads. xsmiley_wix Yet, UVA has no plans to grow their undergraduate student body, not now, nor do they ever. What undergrad enrollment growth UVA has experienced over the past 20 years is due solely to "enrollment creep"...not a purposeful plan to enlarge the undergraduate population.

All this just goes to prove (once again) that the size of an institution's enrollment, undergraduate or graduate, really has nothing to do with supporting FBS FB. Undergrads at UVA don't fill (or pay for) Scott Stadium in Charlotteville anymore than the 35k+ undergrads at Texas fill (and pay for) Memorial Stadium in Austin. ;)

ERASU2113

January 20th, 2008, 07:13 PM

You could look at Wake Forest for an example of how a school's size doesn't reflect FBS feasability

ERASU2113

January 20th, 2008, 10:41 PM

BDKJMU

January 21st, 2008, 01:39 AM

BDKJMU

January 21st, 2008, 01:48 AM

School population is in no way synonymous with FBS. UVA is a small school with only about 10,000 undergraduates. I believe Wake Forrest and Duke are fairly small as well. Some schools just have decades and decades of alumni who have been giving that have created giant endowments. One of the biggest hurdles for JMU is its endowment.

Slowly JMU is growing its grad programs, which is a key element to being included among the nation's leading universities, but it is one of the state's largest undergraduate schools along with VT, VCU and GMU. Neither VCU nor GMU are heading in the football direction. I'm sure other states have similar disparities between student populations and athletic programs.

Bottom line, it takes money, lots and lots of money. JMU is no where near there financially, but they are making the right moves in the right direction, FCS or FBS.

For the 06'-07' school year UVA had 13,353 undergrad enrollment. Where did you get only 10k from?
http://www.virginia.edu/Facts/Glance_Enrollment.html

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 10:39 AM

Of course the question is, where would they, along with ODU, being going to? Do they aspire to be East Carolina? It's not a bad thing, but LSU it ain't. East Coast non-BCS schools don't really have a MWC or a WAC to fall back on, unless you count CUSA, and while that's not a terrible place to be, it's not all that glamorous.

You could aspire to much worse IMO than a school that can pull decade long home & home's with programs like Virginia Tech or average 42k fans at $50 bucks a ticket this year, which is why that's possible.

Playing ECU is all fine and well, but going into CUSA means you're also playing UTEP and Houston and the like - not exactly a big step up in terms of competition. .

Our SOS was in the low 60's officially by the NCAA before the bowl. We have current home & home's with Virginia Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina, Virginia, NC State, Navy, and North Carolina Those are the only teams we play OOC for the next decade and balance being out being in CUSA. They may never get those home deals in D1a but they certainly won't now and you got to start paying your dues at somepoint for better. They could still play better opponents with 4 OOC games. As far as CUSA west, we play 3 games a year out of 12 games, that's more than manageable.

I foresee an alignment of ASU, JMU, ODU, ECU, GA Southern, Marshall, Middle Tenn., and other middle to larger public institutions in the SE (Troy, WKU, EKU, TN-Chatty, Jax State, GA State, etc.). .

I'd stay with CUSA. Schools like Houston, UTEP, Tulsa, and SMU have better national names and more resources. CUSA also has the best TV deal and Bowl line up than any non-AQ and much better than any start up like that could pull. Being outside the BCS isn't even that big of a deal anymore. Hawaii proved a team could go to a BCS bowl with the worst possible SOS in the nation this year. If you deserve to go to the BCS you go, heck now if you don't deserve to but schedule sisters of the poor you can go and get embarrassed. TCU would have went in 2005 even with a loss to 5 win SMU under these new rules. Easier than trying to go from the SEC and you get as much or more attention with Cinderella status and respect if you earn it. The way we schedule OOC, in years like this one hypothetically if we had won out with wins over the ACC and Big East Champs on the road, I think reasonable people would have a hard time putting 2 loss LSU in the title game over us.

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 11:14 AM

Of course the question is, where would they, along with ODU, being going to? Do they aspire to be East Carolina? It's not a bad thing, but LSU it ain't. East Coast non-BCS schools don't really have a MWC or a WAC to fall back on, unless you count CUSA, and while that's not a terrible place to be, it's not all that glamorous.

You could aspire to much worse IMO than a school that can pull decade long home & home's with programs like Virginia Tech or average 42k fans at $50 bucks a ticket this year, which is why that's possible. What's the alternative aspiration? To be Delaware? We are closer to LSU if that's your standard.

Playing ECU is all fine and well, but going into CUSA means you're also playing UTEP and Houston and the like - not exactly a big step up in terms of competition. .

Our SOS was in the low 60's officially by the NCAA before the bowl. We have current home & home's with Virginia Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina, Virginia, NC State, Navy, and North Carolina Those are the only teams we play OOC for the next decade and 4 a year help balance being out being in CUSA. They may never get those home deals in D1a but they certainly won't now, you got to start paying your dues sometime. They could still upgrade their SOS with 4 OOC games. As far as CUSA west, we play 3 games a year out of 12 games, that's more than manageable.

I foresee an alignment of ASU, JMU, ODU, ECU, GA Southern, Marshall, Middle Tenn., and other middle to larger public institutions in the SE (Troy, WKU, EKU, TN-Chatty, Jax State, GA State, etc.). .

I'd stay with CUSA. Schools like Houston, UTEP, Tulsa, and SMU have better national names and more resources. CUSA also has the best TV deal and Bowl line up than any non-AQ and much better than any start up like that could pull. Being outside the BCS isn't even that big of a deal anymore. Hawaii proved a team could go to a BCS bowl with the worst possible SOS in the nation this year. If you deserve to go to the BCS you go, heck now if you don't deserve to but schedule sisters of the poor you can go and then get embarrassed. TCU would have went in 2005 even with a loss to 5 win SMU under these new rules. Easier than trying to go from the SEC and you get as much or more attention with Cinderella status and respect if you earn it. The way we schedule OOC, in years like this one hypothetically if we had won out with wins over the ACC and Big East Champs on the road, I think reasonable people would have a hard time putting 2 loss LSU in the title game over us.

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 11:29 AM

Of course the question is, where would they, along with ODU, being going to? Do they aspire to be East Carolina? It's not a bad thing, but LSU it ain't. East Coast non-BCS schools don't really have a MWC or a WAC to fall back on, unless you count CUSA, and while that's not a terrible place to be, it's not all that glamorous.

You could aspire to much worse IMO than a school that can pull decade long home & home's with programs like Virginia Tech or average 42k fans at $50 bucks a ticket this year, which is why that's possible. What's the alternative aspiration? To be Delaware? We are closer to LSU if that's your standard.

Playing ECU is all fine and well, but going into CUSA means you're also playing UTEP and Houston and the like - not exactly a big step up in terms of competition. .

Our SOS was in the low 60's officially by the NCAA before the bowl. We have current home & home's with Virginia Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina, Virginia, NC State, Navy, and North Carolina Those are the only teams we play OOC for the next decade and 4 a year help balance being out being in CUSA. They may never get those home deals in D1a but they certainly won't now, you got to start paying your dues sometime. They could still upgrade their SOS with 4 OOC games. As far as CUSA west, we play 3 games a year out of 12 games, that's more than manageable.

I foresee an alignment of ASU, JMU, ODU, ECU, GA Southern, Marshall, Middle Tenn., and other middle to larger public institutions in the SE (Troy, WKU, EKU, TN-Chatty, Jax State, GA State, etc.). .

I'd stay with CUSA. Schools like Houston, UTEP, Tulsa, and SMU have better national names and more resources. CUSA also has the best TV deal and Bowl line up than any non-AQ and much better than any start up like that could pull. Being outside the BCS isn't even that big of a deal anymore. Hawaii proved a team could go to a BCS bowl with the worst possible SOS in the nation this year. If you deserve to go to the BCS you go, heck now if you don't deserve to but schedule sisters of the poor you can go and then get embarrassed. TCU would have went in 2005 even with a loss to 5 win SMU under these new rules. Easier than trying to go from the SEC and you get as much or more attention with Cinderella status and respect if you earn it. The way we schedule OOC, in years like this one hypothetically if we had won out with wins over the ACC and Big East Champs on the road, I think reasonable people would have a hard time putting 2 loss LSU in the title game over us.

GannonFan

January 24th, 2008, 11:46 AM

You could aspire to much worse IMO than a school that can pull decade long home & home's with programs like Virginia Tech or average 42k fans at $50 bucks a ticket this year, which is why that's possible. What's the alternative aspiration? To be Delaware? We are closer to LSU if that's your standard.

Our SOS was in the low 60's officially by the NCAA before the bowl. We have current home & home's with Virginia Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina, Virginia, NC State, Navy, and North Carolina Those are the only teams we play OOC for the next decade and 4 a year help balance being out being in CUSA. They may never get those home deals in D1a but they certainly won't now, you got to start paying your dues sometime. They could still upgrade their SOS with 4 OOC games. As far as CUSA west, we play 3 games a year out of 12 games, that's more than manageable.

I'd stay with CUSA. Schools like Houston, UTEP, Tulsa, and SMU have better national names and more resources. CUSA also has the best TV deal and Bowl line up than any non-AQ and much better than any start up like that could pull. Being outside the BCS isn't even that big of a deal anymore. Hawaii proved a team could go to a BCS bowl with the worst possible SOS in the nation this year. If you deserve to go to the BCS you go, heck now if you don't deserve to but schedule sisters of the poor you can go and then get embarrassed. TCU would have went in 2005 even with a loss to 5 win SMU under these new rules. Easier than trying to go from the SEC and you get as much or more attention with Cinderella status and respect if you earn it. The way we schedule OOC, in years like this one hypothetically if we had won out with wins over the ACC and Big East Champs on the road, I think reasonable people would have a hard time putting 2 loss LSU in the title game over us.

Hey, I love that you love ECU so much, but you have to be silly to think that ECU would've been in the title game over a 2 loss LSU team. You could've just started the whole post with that and saved me all the reading! xlolx

No non-BCS team will be in the championship game, ever. Ever. It's their party and while a team may and will get invited to a BCS bowl, they will never get the shot at the naitonal title. So by that standard, UD and ECU are even in that UD will never get a shot at the BCS title either.

Hey, ECU is what it is - a decent IA team that plays a decent schedule and has pretty good attendance. But they've been that way for decades and the BCS conferences aren't coming calling and probably never will. That means occasional lower level bowl games and maybe once every 2 or 3 decades an invite to a BCS bowl, but not the national championship. The Big East ain't calling, the ACC and SEC aren't calling, and CUSA will never be at those levels (especially since the basketball conference turned into Memphis and everyone else, and that's assuming Memphis stays). It's fine, but it's not the BCS nor will it ever be. That's all I was saying.

henfan

January 24th, 2008, 12:17 PM

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 01:14 PM

ECU FB is a heck of a lot closer to UD & JMU than to LSU.

LSU: FR revenues/expenses ($48.1M/$16.4M); Avg. Attendance (92.7K); Power Rating (93.39/1st)

ECU: $6.7M/$6.9M; 41.5K; 71.37/64th

UD: $5.5M/$4.0M; 21.5K; 68.64/73rd

The bottom line is that JMU is doing quite well with FCS FB and doesn't see any real incentive to dump loads of cash into an FBS FB program when there is little prospect for positive rewards.

Hey, if it works for ECU and fits with their institutional mission, that's dandy. Low level FBS FB isn't for everyone.

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow or even a sufficent program. It's pointless to try to compare anyway without all the data or possible different accounting practices. Our pirate club raised over $5 million this year for instance. I think JMU are yet to break a million, App just broke a million, doubt you guys can't be all that much higher. The obvious and clear number though is we average twice your attendance.

As far as rankings you can believe whatever poll you want. Sagarin is just one of 6 BCS polls and there are other equal BCS polls that factor in D1aa's that have us ranked about 40 spot higher than you this year. Most don't even bother because the sample size between the number of games each division plays against each other is so small anyway it's ridiculous to intermingle them with accuracy.

Hey, I love that you love ECU so much, but you have to be silly to think that ECU would've been in the title game over a 2 loss LSU team. You could've just started the whole post with that and saved me all the reading! xlolx

No non-BCS team will be in the championship game, ever. Ever. It's their party and while a team may and will get invited to a BCS bowl, they will never get the shot at the national title. So by that standard, UD and ECU are even in that UD will never get a shot at the BCS title either.

Hey, ECU is what it is - a decent IA team that plays a decent schedule and has pretty good attendance. But they've been that way for decades and the BCS conferences aren't coming calling and probably never will. That means occasional lower level bowl games and maybe once every 2 or 3 decades an invite to a BCS bowl, but not the national championship. The Big East ain't calling, the ACC and SEC aren't calling, and CUSA will never be at those levels (especially since the basketball conference turned into Memphis and everyone else, and that's assuming Memphis stays). It's fine, but it's not the BCS nor will it ever be. That's all I was saying.

If we had beat the ACC champ and Big East champ, both BCS representatives of their conferences, on the road as well as the two other BCS teams we played, along with three CUSA top 40 BCS teams in the final BCS polls (Houston, UCF and Tulsa) there would have certainly been a strong case over a 2 loss LSU. Ohio St's official SOS was only about 15 spots better than ours without playing Tulsa in the CUSA title game.

Under the right circumstances there are chances if you schedule strong regardless if you want to admit it. It's clear why you don't though. You want use that as a crutch and excuse to make you feel better about not progressing your program when you could have move up a decade ago. If you just want to win lower level national championships my advice is go D3, you could probably win most years.

As far as your assumptions on our potential for the BCS in the future I'm sure you had USF as a shoe in 5 years after they broke ground on their program and were running it out of double wide trailers. Our program has been in conferences with schools like West Virginia, Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, Depaul etc. already It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 01:41 PM

ECU FB is a heck of a lot closer to UD & JMU than to LSU.

LSU: FR revenues/expenses ($48.1M/$16.4M); Avg. Attendance (92.7K); Power Rating (93.39/1st)

ECU: $6.7M/$6.9M; 41.5K; 71.37/64th

UD: $5.5M/$4.0M; 21.5K; 68.64/73rd

The bottom line is that JMU is doing quite well with FCS FB and doesn't see any real incentive to dump loads of cash into an FBS FB program when there is little prospect for positive rewards.

Hey, if it works for ECU and fits with their institutional mission, that's dandy. Low level FBS FB isn't for everyone.

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow for them or even a sufficent program. It's pointless to try to compare anyway without all the data or possible different accounting practices. Our pirate club raised over $5 million this year for instance. I think JMU is yet to break a million, App just broke a million, doubt you guys can't be all that much higher. That kind of blows your numbers up regardless. The obvious and clear number though is we average twice your attendance, hard to spin that.

As far as rankings you can believe whatever poll you want. Sagarin is just one of 6 BCS polls and there are other equal BCS polls that factor in D1aa's that have us ranked about 40 spot higher than you this year. Most don't even bother because the sample size between the number of games each division plays against each other is so small anyway it's ridiculous to try intermingle them with accuracy.

Hey, I love that you love ECU so much, but you have to be silly to think that ECU would've been in the title game over a 2 loss LSU team. You could've just started the whole post with that and saved me all the reading! xlolx

No non-BCS team will be in the championship game, ever. Ever. It's their party and while a team may and will get invited to a BCS bowl, they will never get the shot at the national title. So by that standard, UD and ECU are even in that UD will never get a shot at the BCS title either.

Hey, ECU is what it is - a decent IA team that plays a decent schedule and has pretty good attendance. But they've been that way for decades and the BCS conferences aren't coming calling and probably never will. That means occasional lower level bowl games and maybe once every 2 or 3 decades an invite to a BCS bowl, but not the national championship. The Big East ain't calling, the ACC and SEC aren't calling, and CUSA will never be at those levels (especially since the basketball conference turned into Memphis and everyone else, and that's assuming Memphis stays). It's fine, but it's not the BCS nor will it ever be. That's all I was saying.

If we had beat the ACC champ and Big East champ, both BCS representatives of their conferences, on the road as well as the two other BCS teams we played, along with three CUSA top 40 BCS teams in the final BCS polls (Houston, UCF and Tulsa) there would have certainly been a strong case over a 2 loss LSU. Ohio St's official SOS was only about 15 spots better than ours without playing Tulsa in the CUSA title game.

Under the right circumstances there are chances if you schedule strong regardless if you want to admit it. It's clear why you don't though. You want use that as a crutch and excuse to make you feel better about not moving up. If you just want to win lower level national championships my advice is go D3, you could probably win most years.

As far as your assumptions on our potential for the Big East in the future I'm sure you had USF as a shoe in 5 years after they broke ground on their program and were running it out of double wide trailers. Our program has been in conferences with schools like West Virginia, Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, Depaul etc. already It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't matter though if we never get there, we have the ability to schedule of teams we want to play and at home and can get to major bowl games.

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 02:16 PM

ECU FB is a heck of a lot closer to UD & JMU than to LSU.

LSU: FR revenues/expenses ($48.1M/$16.4M); Avg. Attendance (92.7K); Power Rating (93.39/1st)

ECU: $6.7M/$6.9M; 41.5K; 71.37/64th

UD: $5.5M/$4.0M; 21.5K; 68.64/73rd

The bottom line is that JMU is doing quite well with FCS FB and doesn't see any real incentive to dump loads of cash into an FBS FB program when there is little prospect for positive rewards.

Hey, if it works for ECU and fits with their institutional mission, that's dandy. Low level FBS FB isn't for everyone.

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow for them or even a sufficent program. It's pointless to try to compare anyway without the data or possible different accounting practices. Our pirate club raised over $5 million this year because of football excitment. I think JMU is yet to break a million, App just broke a million, doubt you guys can be all that much higher. That kind of blows your numbers up regardless. The obvious and clear number though is we average twice your attendance, hard to spin that.

As far as rankings you can believe whatever poll you want. Sagarin is just one of 6 BCS polls and there are other equal BCS polls that factor in D1aa's that have us ranked about 40 spot higher than you this year. Most don't even bother because the sample size between the number of games each division plays against each other is so small anyway it's ridiculous to try intermingle them with accuracy.

Hey, I love that you love ECU so much, but you have to be silly to think that ECU would've been in the title game over a 2 loss LSU team. You could've just started the whole post with that and saved me all the reading! xlolx

No non-BCS team will be in the championship game, ever. Ever. It's their party and while a team may and will get invited to a BCS bowl, they will never get the shot at the national title. So by that standard, UD and ECU are even in that UD will never get a shot at the BCS title either.

Hey, ECU is what it is - a decent IA team that plays a decent schedule and has pretty good attendance. But they've been that way for decades and the BCS conferences aren't coming calling and probably never will. That means occasional lower level bowl games and maybe once every 2 or 3 decades an invite to a BCS bowl, but not the national championship. The Big East ain't calling, the ACC and SEC aren't calling, and CUSA will never be at those levels (especially since the basketball conference turned into Memphis and everyone else, and that's assuming Memphis stays). It's fine, but it's not the BCS nor will it ever be. That's all I was saying.

If we had beat the ACC champ and Big East champ, both BCS representatives of their conferences, on the road as well as the two other BCS teams we played, along with three CUSA top 40 BCS teams in the final BCS poll there would have certainly been a strong case over a 2 loss LSU. Ohio St's official SOS was already only about 15 spots better than ours without playing Tulsa in the CUSA title game.

Under the right circumstances there are chances if you schedule strong regardless if you want to admit it. You want use that as a crutch an excuse to make you feel better about not moving up. Hey if you just want to win lower level national championships my advice is go D3, you could probably win most years, if that is all that matters in your mind.

As far as your assumptions on our potential for the Big East in the future I'm sure you had USF as a shoe in 5 years after they broke ground on their program and were running it out of double wide trailers. Our program has been in conferences with schools like West Virginia, Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, Depaul etc. already It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't matter though if we never get there, we have the ability to schedule the teams really we want to play at home and can get to major bowl games and I'll take it over your alternative.

GannonFan

January 24th, 2008, 02:56 PM

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow for them or even a sufficent program. It's pointless to try to compare anyway without the data or possible different accounting practices. Our pirate club raised over $5 million this year because of football excitment. I think JMU is yet to break a million, App just broke a million, doubt you guys can be all that much higher. That kind of blows your numbers up regardless. The obvious and clear number though is we average twice your attendance, hard to spin that.

As far as rankings you can believe whatever poll you want. Sagarin is just one of 6 BCS polls and there are other equal BCS polls that factor in D1aa's that have us ranked about 40 spot higher than you this year. Most don't even bother because the sample size between the number of games each division plays against each other is so small anyway it's ridiculous to try intermingle them with accuracy.

If we had beat the ACC champ and Big East champ, both BCS representatives of their conferences, on the road as well as the two other BCS teams we played, along with three CUSA top 40 BCS teams in the final BCS poll there would have certainly been a strong case over a 2 loss LSU. Ohio St's official SOS was already only about 15 spots better than ours without playing Tulsa in the CUSA title game.

Under the right circumstances there are chances if you schedule strong regardless if you want to admit it. You want use that as a crutch and excuse to make you feel better about not moving up. Hey if you just want to win lower level national championships my advice is go D3, you could probably win most years, if that is all that matters.

As far as your assumptions on our potential for the Big East in the future I'm sure you had USF as a shoe in 5 years after they broke ground on their program and were running it out of double wide trailers. Our program has been in conferences with schools like West Virginia, Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, Depaul etc. already It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't matter though if we never get there, we have the ability to schedule the teams really we want to play at home and can get to major bowl games.

Try to spin it anyway you want, but there is no scenario that will ever have a undefeated non-BCS team playing for the title - it just won't happen. And it's not a crutch on our end for not moving up, it's just that there really isn't much difference between playing for a lower level national title or playing for a non-BCS bowl game - both mean you aren't going to win the BCS national title.

As for the Big East, yup, no one had USF moving into the Big East. But no one had Miami moving out either. But trying to use a Florida footprint issue as a reason why you can never say never with ECU is silly - if ECU was in Florida, you'd guys would already be in a BCS conference. However, unless there's a huge demographic change that makes the eastern part of North Carolina both a media and recruit hotbed, ECU isn't going anywhere, no matter what happens to the Big East. And you're right, if playing some of these teams at home and getting to play in bowl games is your thing, no one's knocking it. Just don't knock those who play at the FCS level as in reality, we're both just as far from the BCS title and the big paydays associated with BCS football. xthumbsupx

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 02:58 PM

ECU FB is a heck of a lot closer to UD & JMU than to LSU.

LSU: FR revenues/expenses ($48.1M/$16.4M); Avg. Attendance (92.7K); Power Rating (93.39/1st)

ECU: $6.7M/$6.9M; 41.5K; 71.37/64th

UD: $5.5M/$4.0M; 21.5K; 68.64/73rd

The bottom line is that JMU is doing quite well with FCS FB and doesn't see any real incentive to dump loads of cash into an FBS FB program when there is little prospect for positive rewards.

Hey, if it works for ECU and fits with their institutional mission, that's dandy. Low level FBS FB isn't for everyone.

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow for them or even a efficient program. It's pointless to try to compare anyway without the data or possible different accounting practices. Our pirate club raised over $5 million this year. I think JMU is yet to break a million in a year, App just broke a million, doubt you guys can be all that much higher. That kind of blows your numbers up regardless. The obvious and clear number though is we average twice your attendance, hard to spin that.

As far as rankings you can believe whatever poll you want. Sagarin is just one of 6 BCS polls and there are other equal BCS polls that factor in D1aa's that have us ranked about 40 spot higher than you this year. Most don't even bother because the sample size between the number of games each division plays against each other is so small anyway it's ridiculous to try intermingle them with accuracy.

Hey, I love that you love ECU so much, but you have to be silly to think that ECU would've been in the title game over a 2 loss LSU team. You could've just started the whole post with that and saved me all the reading! xlolx

No non-BCS team will be in the championship game, ever. Ever. It's their party and while a team may and will get invited to a BCS bowl, they will never get the shot at the national title. So by that standard, UD and ECU are even in that UD will never get a shot at the BCS title either.

Hey, ECU is what it is - a decent IA team that plays a decent schedule and has pretty good attendance. But they've been that way for decades and the BCS conferences aren't coming calling and probably never will. That means occasional lower level bowl games and maybe once every 2 or 3 decades an invite to a BCS bowl, but not the national championship. The Big East ain't calling, the ACC and SEC aren't calling, and CUSA will never be at those levels (especially since the basketball conference turned into Memphis and everyone else, and that's assuming Memphis stays). It's fine, but it's not the BCS nor will it ever be. That's all I was saying.

If we had beat the ACC champ and Big East champ, both BCS representatives of their conferences, on the road as well as the two other BCS teams we played, along with three CUSA top 40 BCS teams in the final BCS poll there would have certainly been a strong case over a 2 loss LSU. Ohio St's official SOS was already only about 15 spots better than ours without playing Tulsa in the CUSA title game.

Under the right circumstances there are chances if you schedule strong regardless if you want to admit it. You want use that as a crutch an excuse to make you feel better about not moving up. Hey if you just want to win lower level national championships my advice is go D3, you could probably win most years, if that is all that matters in your mind.

As far as your assumptions on our potential for the Big East in the future I'm sure you had USF as a shoe in 5 years after they broke ground on their program and were running it out of double wide trailers. Our program has been in conferences with schools like West Virginia, Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, Depaul etc. already It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't matter though if we never get there, we have the ability to schedule the teams really we want to play at home and can get to major bowl games and I'll take it over your alternative.

GannonFan

January 24th, 2008, 03:01 PM

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow for them or even a sufficent program. It's pointless to try to compare anyway without the data or possible different accounting practices. Our pirate club raised over $5 million this year because of football excitment. I think JMU is yet to break a million, App just broke a million, doubt you guys can be all that much higher. That kind of blows your numbers up regardless. The obvious and clear number though is we average twice your attendance, hard to spin that.

As far as rankings you can believe whatever poll you want. Sagarin is just one of 6 BCS polls and there are other equal BCS polls that factor in D1aa's that have us ranked about 40 spot higher than you this year. Most don't even bother because the sample size between the number of games each division plays against each other is so small anyway it's ridiculous to try intermingle them with accuracy.

If we had beat the ACC champ and Big East champ, both BCS representatives of their conferences, on the road as well as the two other BCS teams we played, along with three CUSA top 40 BCS teams in the final BCS poll there would have certainly been a strong case over a 2 loss LSU. Ohio St's official SOS was already only about 15 spots better than ours without playing Tulsa in the CUSA title game.

Under the right circumstances there are chances if you schedule strong regardless if you want to admit it. You want use that as a crutch an excuse to make you feel better about not moving up. Hey if you just want to win lower level national championships my advice is go D3, you could probably win most years, if that is all that matters in your mind.

As far as your assumptions on our potential for the Big East in the future I'm sure you had USF as a shoe in 5 years after they broke ground on their program and were running it out of double wide trailers. Our program has been in conferences with schools like West Virginia, Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, Depaul etc. already It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't matter though if we never get there, we have the ability to schedule the teams really we want to play at home and can get to major bowl games and I'll take it over your alternative.

Try to spin it anyway you want, but there is no scenario that will ever have a undefeated non-BCS team playing for the title - it just won't happen. And it's not a crutch on our end for not moving up, it's just that there really isn't much difference between playing for a lower level national title or playing for a non-BCS bowl game - both mean you aren't going to win the BCS national title.

As for the Big East, yup, no one had USF moving into the Big East. But no one had Miami moving out either. But trying to use a Florida footprint issue as a reason why you can never say never with ECU is silly - if ECU was in Florida, you'd guys would already be in a BCS conference. However, unless there's a huge demographic change that makes the eastern part of North Carolina both a media and recruit hotbed, ECU isn't going anywhere, no matter what happens to the Big East. And you're right, if playing some of these teams at home and getting to play in bowl games is your thing, no one's knocking it. Just don't knock those who play at the FCS level as in reality, we're both just as far from the BCS title and the big paydays associated with BCS football.

Appinator

January 24th, 2008, 03:25 PM

I have to agree with GannonFan, ECU will never win a BCS NC while in C-USA. They couldn't even beat a terrible NC State team this year.

This is kind of like saying, if App played four BCS teams as their OOC, won them all and then beat all of their conference opponents by like 70, then they could play for the BCS title, after being voted #1 in the AP poll (which is possible, the poll part at least). With a quick run through the playoffs, they would end the season with a Miami Dolphins like record of 17-0 after beating whatever ill-fated school who played them in the BCS Championship game.xlolx xlolx

StillJonesin

January 24th, 2008, 03:52 PM

I have to agree with GannonFan, ECU will never win a BCS NC while in C-USA. They couldn't even beat a terrible NC State team this year.

Never said we would, I just said hypothetically it's not impossible. As far as NCSU they were 5-7 this year and beat a Wofford team you lost to. While you're at it remember last year's terrible NCSU team was 3-9 team and beat your team on a "title" run but couldn't beat us. I wouldn't be talking. The chances of any of us winning a national title are non-existant even if they had a 32 team playoff but it's hardly a reason not to move up if you want better competition and to grow your program.

If ECU was in Florida, you'd guys would already be in a BCS conference. However, unless there's a huge demographic change that makes the eastern part of North Carolina both a media and recruit hotbed, ECU isn't going anywhere, no matter what happens to the Big East.

Before Virginia Tech moved to the Big East in the early 90's as a "football only" we beat them most of the time and averaged as many fans. Potiental is there to do something similar. We are still the closest D1a to the tidewater VA and NC produced 88 D1a prospects (with 48 going out of state) last year in a top 10 population state an hour from Raliegh. As far as your media market hype, people said the same when we got a TV deal with ESPN as an indy. Our program was good enough to get us a TV deal this year with a major regional network out of DC/Baltimore.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/2007-07-17_234737.png

Truth is it doesn't mean jack if no one cares about you in your market, otherwise the Big East wouldn't have booted Temple when they needed teams. When JMU, App, GSU and others move on like the upper tier of the past.. Marshall, Boise, Troy did before them you can tell the next generation that replaces them.. "do you just want apire to be ECU, its not glamourous"..as well. Still doesn't seem to slow their aspirations or goals like it has yours.

henfan

January 24th, 2008, 03:54 PM

Not sure of where you are getting your numbers or that they are even apples to apples with what is behind them. For instance student fee's at JMU are 90% of their total revenue. Doesn't mean football is a cash cow for them or even a sufficent program.

These aren't my numbers; they are the numbers reported by each school to the US Dept. of Ed.

Granted, EADA figures won't necessarily result in an apples to apples comparisons, but it is the best data available. Regardless of the accounting practices used, unless ECU has vastly understated its FB finances to the feds (unlikely), they are much closer to the JMUs and UDs than they are D-I major college FB programs like LSU, Michigan and USC. That was the original point.

Can't speak directly for JMU but, if the following article is accurate, $1.7M of their revs come from activity fees and $1.2M from ticket sales, guarantees, contributions, royalties, sponsorships & adverts. $1.7M, while fairly significant, is far less than 90% by my accounting.
http://www.harrisonburgnews.com/sports_details.php?AID=6442CHID=3

And while ECU does indeed report avg. attendance at twice as many fans as UD, ECU's expenses & overhead are also higher. ECU is forced to pay out higher guarantees to their opposition. They offer 22 more scholarships (which translates in 44 total schollies spread out across the entire AD.) In the far flung CUSA, their travel costs are much higher. With avg. attendance as high as ECU's and with revenues as low as $6.7M, it begs the question how many of those 41K tickets are promos, giveaways, reduced price packages or just plain fudged numbers? Are ECU's season ticket numbers closer to UD's 12K or LSU's 67K? UD nets about $2M on FB alone each season (and, no, UD has no student fees for athletics.) Seems there would be nothing wrong with aspiring to being like UD, if that was the intent of any program.

As I suggested, there's nothing wrong with ECU making the decisions they've made with FB. I completely respect that. They seem to be happy where they are in much the same way JMU and UD are happy where they are. The path each program is taking seems to be working pretty well for them. We sure don't mind appearing on ESPN networks four consecutive weeks in Nov/Dec, plus the six games we had broadcast on CSN/CN8.

Appinator

January 24th, 2008, 04:15 PM

Never said we would, I just said hypothetically it's not impossible. As far as NCSU they were 5-7 this year and beat a Wofford team you lost to. While you're at it remember last year's terrible NCSU team was 3-9 team and beat your team on a "title" run but couldn't beat us. I wouldn't be talking.

Aah I do like that kind of logic actually.

We beat Michigan, who beat Florida, who beat Kentucky, who beat LSU. Sorry, looks like we don't have to join the FBS ranks to win it all.

As, for NCSU, we only had Armanti in for the 4th quarter in his first game as a true freshman (our eventual backup played the beginning of the game), and we still lost by less than you did. Maybe you shouldn't be defending that loss as hard as you are.

Touchdown Yosef

January 24th, 2008, 05:03 PM

[QUOTE=StillJonesin;843002]Never said we would, I just said hypothetically it's not impossible. As far as NCSU they were 5-7 this year and beat a Wofford team you lost to. While you're at it remember last year's terrible NCSU team was 3-9 team and beat your team on a "title" run but couldn't beat us. I wouldn't be talking. The chances of any of us winning a national title are non-existant even if they had a 32 team playoff but it's hardly a reason not to move up if you want better competition and to grow your program.

Yes, your logic is flawed and we can grow our program just fine in FCS and I believe we are quite happy with the level of competition in FCS. I think this year more than ever was an example of how FCS teams can compete with and beat strong FBS teams. And mind you that this is with less scholarships. As far as NCSU I don't think anyone can dispute that they were a horrible team this year, and last. We got off to a rough start against them and had some bad plays that cost us the game but we don't need to turn this into recap of another app game. That being said had we played 3 or 4 weeks later in the season I honestly believe the game would not have even been close and I mean that. ECU had a great Bowl win this year but you are still forever stuck playing in bowl games that essentially mean nothing other than corporate gift packs and an extra game on tv. In your best years, you honestly will never compete for an NC and I would rather compete in FCS for an NC than be religated to eternal mediocrity in FBS. Our best can hang with the FBS and if we continue to improve the overall level of play, FCS will stay as attractive as it is for those of us who appreciate it. Many of us do not take the approach that C-USA is football holy land, simply because it is not.

Congrats JMU on your stadium, the plans look great and I hope that you can sell out every game every year. I look forward to making the trip up this year and hope that we can continue the matchup.

th0m

January 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM

An annual ASU-JMU matchup would be great, especially after both schools will have upgraded their facilities (you guys have a headstart ;))

StillJonesin

January 25th, 2008, 01:04 PM

These aren't my numbers; they are the numbers reported by each school to the US Dept. of Ed.

Granted, EADA figures won't necessarily result in an apples to apples comparisons, but it is the best data available. Regardless of the accounting practices used, unless ECU has vastly understated its FB finances to the feds (unlikely), they are much closer to the JMUs and UDs than they are D-I major college FB programs like LSU, Michigan and USC. That was the original point.
Nope I said we are a closer to LSU than Delaware is to LSU, since that was the standard your guy set. Our stadium is twice as large, we averaged twice as many fans, we compete in the same division, and can, have had, and will have SEC schools in our stadium.

Can't speak directly for JMU but, if the following article is accurate, $1.7M of their revs come from activity fees and $1.2M from ticket sales, guarantees, contributions, royalties, sponsorships & adverts. $1.7M, while fairly significant, is far less than 90% by my accounting.
http://www.harrisonburgnews.com/sports_details.php?AID=6442CHID=3
Student fee's are 90% of JMU's athletic budget, over $19 million student fee's. JMU counts that as revenue, but who even know what the other breakdowns were. That was just an example to show you see nothing behind these numbers or if it's even apples and apples in the way they are expended or received or where they place the money which could be different as well and makes your numbers pretty worthless. Page 23..

http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwexa/news/download/GeorgiaStateFootballStudy2006.pdf

Also on that link you can view some of what's behind your budget and it says $6 million from University grants (??), $2.7 million from actual gates, $1.76 million from donations (our was 5) and 900k for promotions.

ECU's and with revenues as low as $6.7M, it begs the question how many of those 41K tickets are promos, giveaways, reduced price packages or just plain fudged numbers? Are ECU's season ticket numbers closer to UD's 12K or LSU's 67K? UD nets about $2M on FB alone each season (and, no, UD has no student fees for athletics.) Seems there would be nothing wrong with aspiring to being like UD, if that was the intent of any program.
Believe what you want but we sold out all 22k season tickets (students not included) before the season started or more than your stadium holds. The few thousand opponents allotted tickets that were returned and sold as single game tickets had face values between $40-$50. Also we have luxury seating which you don't. Regardless this whole finances spin is ridiculous even if your numbers were apples to apple or correct, which I doubt. You are saying you are staying on your level to get RICH, but I don't see anyone jumping back down and it hasn't manifested it self into vast improvements or stadium expansions I can see. Yet programs you seem to think are bleeding money are still expanding or in our case doubling our coaches salary to close to a million a year. Doesn't add up.

We sure don't mind appearing on ESPN networks four consecutive weeks in Nov/Dec, plus the six games we had broadcast on CSN/CN8.
You had to get to the postseason to get on ESPN and advance to get those game(s). The others deals are conference deals which CUSA has too with ESPN/CSTV. I was just giving your buddy an example of an individual side deal we had in a large market something UCF or no other team could deliver for CUSA and kind of blew up his myth. Some of those MASN carried were ESPN games simulcast, but every game was on TV. CN8 is that the Ocho?

Appinator

January 25th, 2008, 01:49 PM

Nope I said we are a closer to LSU than Delaware is to LSU, since that was the standard your guy set. Our stadium is twice as large, we averaged twice as many fans, we compete in the same division, and can, have had, and will have SEC schools in our stadium.
Student fee's are 90% of JMU's athletic budget, over $19 million student fee's, next closest nationally was UCF at $12 million but they have 45k students or 3 times more. JMU counts that as revenue in the numbers you gave and like I said you see nothing behind these numbers or if it's even apples and apples or the correct totals in the way they are expended or received which makes your numbers worthless. Page 23..

http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwexa/news/download/GeorgiaStateFootballStudy2006.pdf

Also on that link you can view some of what's behind your budget and it says $6 million from University grants (??), $2.7 million from actual gates, $1.76 million from donations (our was 5) and 900k for promotions.

Believe what you want but we sold out all 22k season tickets (students not included) before the season started or more than your stadium holds. The few thousand opponents allotted tickets that were returned and sold as single game tickets had face values between $40-$50. Also we have luxury seating which you don't. Regardless this whole finances spin is ridiculous even if your numbers were apples to apple and correct, which I doubt. You are saying you are staying on your level to get RICH, but I don't see anyone jumping back down and it hasn't manifested it self into vast improvements or stadium expansions I can see. Yet programs you seem to think are bleeding money are still expanding or in our case doubling our coaches salary to close to a million a year. Doesn't add up.

Difference is you have to get to the postseason to get on ESPN and advance to get those game(s). The others deals are conference deals which CUSA has too with ESPN/CSTV. I was just giving your buddy an example of an individual side deal we had in a large market something UCF or no other team could deliver for CUSA and kind of blew up his myth. Some of those MASN carried were ESPN games simulcast, but every game was on TV. CN8, the Ocho?

That is wonderful!!! I would love to have my school's fans come to a home game where I am completely out matched and get our brains beat out. 5 and 17 against SEC teams is a great recruiting tool right? Ummm, no? Well how about your record against ACC teams, not as big and bright, but it has to be better! 25 and 59? I guess not. Well by the way you make the Pirates sound, they have to be the pride of the conference correct? Well I don't think a leagues premier team is allowed to have a losing record (45-46 all time) against its other members, is it.

Well you have to be beating someone. Congratulations on having a one game over .500 winning percentage versus the Sun Belt (8-7).

I know what your thinking, so don't even bother looking it up. ECU is 10-19 against the Mountaineers, the only team you have lost more games to historically is Southern Miss.

Last time I checked, this was an FCS board. I'm sure there is some place that you can brag about ECU's awesome MASN line-up that wasn't even broadcast in most of NC because even Time Warner Cable thought it was a waste of time.

I look forward to playing JMU at their fine new facility.

Touchdown Yosef

January 25th, 2008, 02:25 PM

An annual ASU-JMU matchup would be great, especially after both schools will have upgraded their facilities (you guys have a headstart ;))

yes I look forward to it, I was drving 81 last week but couldn't stop but looking forward to spending some time there this fall.

Touchdown Yosef

January 25th, 2008, 02:30 PM

Nope I said we are a closer to LSU than Delaware is to LSU, since that was the standard your guy set. Our stadium is twice as large, we averaged twice as many fans, we compete in the same division, and can, have had, and will have SEC schools in our stadium.

Student fee's are 90% of JMU's athletic budget, over $19 million student fee's. JMU counts that as revenue, but who even know what the other breakdowns were. That was just an example to show you see nothing behind these numbers or if it's even apples and apples in the way they are expended or received or where they place the money which could be different as well and makes your numbers pretty worthless. Page 23..

http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwexa/news/download/GeorgiaStateFootballStudy2006.pdf

Also on that link you can view some of what's behind your budget and it says $6 million from University grants (??), $2.7 million from actual gates, $1.76 million from donations (our was 5) and 900k for promotions.

Believe what you want but we sold out all 22k season tickets (students not included) before the season started or more than your stadium holds. The few thousand opponents allotted tickets that were returned and sold as single game tickets had face values between $40-$50. Also we have luxury seating which you don't. Regardless this whole finances spin is ridiculous even if your numbers were apples to apple or correct, which I doubt. You are saying you are staying on your level to get RICH, but I don't see anyone jumping back down and it hasn't manifested it self into vast improvements or stadium expansions I can see. Yet programs you seem to think are bleeding money are still expanding or in our case doubling our coaches salary to close to a million a year. Doesn't add up.

You had to get to the postseason to get on ESPN and advance to get those game(s). The others deals are conference deals which CUSA has too with ESPN/CSTV. I was just giving your buddy an example of an individual side deal we had in a large market something UCF or no other team could deliver for CUSA and kind of blew up his myth. Some of those MASN carried were ESPN games simulcast, but every game was on TV. CN8 is that the Ocho?

I don't think you have earned the FCS advocate tag below you name. Why are you touting the accomplishments of ECU again? Perhaps you are confused or maybe just laughed off the FBS boards I don't know.

StillJonesin

January 25th, 2008, 02:42 PM

That is wonderful!!! I would love to have my school's fans come to a home game where I am completely out matched and get our brains beat out.

No non-BCS program has beaten as many BCS schools as we have the last 10-15 years and 20 it's not even close.

http://www.blocku.com/story/2007/6/27/3124/14028

Well I don't think a leagues premier team is allowed to have a losing record (45-46 all time) against its other members, is it.

No clue where you are getting the numbers but it isn't the numbers while we are in CUSA. I guess you are including when we played USM in the 70's.

Well you have to be beating someone. Congratulations on having a one game over .500 winning percentage versus the Sun Belt (8-7).

We have never lost to a Sun Belt team. We lost to once to UL-M in 1966 and UL-L 6 times the last being in 1988 . They were pretty solid then and a D1a from the start.

I know what your thinking, so don't even bother looking it up. ECU is 10-19 against the Mountaineers
All but 2 of your wins are in the 1932-1961 when were a level below you. Once we got to the 70's and we were in the same conference it was a different story. Not that any of it is really relevant today.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/appalachian_state/opponents_records.php?teamid=982

Last time I checked, this was an FCS board.
Just lurking reading about my buddy's at JMU and decided to repond to a remark made. Points made, I'm done unless you guys really want to continue.

Congrats on the stadium JMU, I think your AD's blowing smoke.

henfan

January 25th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Jonesy, the only myths you're successfully blowing up are those in your mind.

Appinator

January 25th, 2008, 03:15 PM

No non-BCS program has beaten as many BCS schools as we have the last 10-15 years and 20 it's not even close.

http://www.blocku.com/story/2007/6/27/3124/14028

No clue where you are getting the numbers but it isn't the numbers while we are in CUSA. I guess you are including when we played USM in the 70's.

We have never lost to a Sun Belt team. We lost to UL-L 6 times the last being in 1988. They were pretty solid and a D1a from the start. We are 38-2 vs D1aa since the division split with the only two loses in the 2 years after however.

All but 2 of your wins are in the 1930-1960 when were a level below you. Once we got to the 70's and we were in the same conference it was a different story. Not that any of it is really relevant today.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/appalachian_state/opponents_records.php?teamid=982

Just lurking around and commenting on a remark made and the subsequent trying to compare our program to Delaware's by the individual. Points made, and I'm done.

Just commenting on everything as it is stated in your media guide (Page 180). If you have a problem on how your own University is portraying itself, you might want to contact your alumni association. While you are on the phone, I would love to make our head to head records relevant again by your standards. Please leave a message for your AD to let him know that we currently have an open date on September 13th. You still have an opening as well. I'd love for our team to get a paid trip to a win, I mean the beach.

Touchdown Yosef

January 25th, 2008, 04:41 PM

No non-BCS program has beaten as many BCS schools as we have the last 10-15 years and 20 it's not even close.

http://www.blocku.com/story/2007/6/27/3124/14028

No clue where you are getting the numbers but it isn't the numbers while we are in CUSA. I guess you are including when we played USM in the 70's.

We have never lost to a Sun Belt team. We lost to once to UL-M in 1966 and UL-L 6 times the last being in 1988 . They were pretty solid then and a D1a from the start.

All but 2 of your wins are in the 1932-1961 when were a level below you. Once we got to the 70's and we were in the same conference it was a different story. Not that any of it is really relevant today.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/appalachian_state/opponents_records.php?teamid=982

Just lurking reading about my buddy's at JMU and decided to repond to a remark made. Points made, I'm done unless you guys really want to continue.

Congrats on the stadium JMU, I think your AD's blowing smoke.

sure why not. Just for the record ECU finished 64th in the Saragrin, UNI was 62 and ASU was 44. I'm not sure but I don't think I saw your name in the final AP poll either.

henfan

January 25th, 2008, 05:07 PM

CN8 is that the Ocho?

Compared to CNOcho, MASN is MASNueve. MASN reaches only 5.2M viewers, compared with CN8's 9M. That's why the CAA cut a deal with CN8 and not MASN for FB. Why limit yourself to the DC, VA & Carolinas, when you can have those areas plus Pittsburgh, New York, Boston, Philly and areas in between?

But, of course, UD also had several games simulcast on MASN, along with their games on CSN & the ESPN networks. Yeah, that FCS thing isn't working out too well for us.xlolx

StillJonesin

January 25th, 2008, 08:55 PM

Compared to CNOcho, MASN is MASNueve. MASN reaches only 5.2M viewers, compared with CN8's 9M. That's why the CAA cut a deal with CN8 and not MASN for FB. Why limit yourself to the DC, VA & Carolinas, when you can have those areas plus Pittsburgh, New York, Boston, Philly and areas in between?

But, of course, UD also had several games simulcast on MASN, along with their games on CSN & the ESPN networks. Yeah, that FCS thing isn't working out too well for us.xlolx

Difference was we are talking an individual deal with them in which they produced and broadcast some of our games as well, not just a feed reshowing from another network. They did some of that too but also broadcast some of our games and we were the first and only football team they did according to their announcers. It was an individual deal which not a lot of schools have. I could pump up our conference deals with national stations like ESPN / CSTV where 9 of our games were also broadcast nationwide too. That's apples to apples when you bring up your conf deals which you have a hard time getting. You just better hope you get to the postseason and deep in it if you want national games.

sure why not. Just for the record ECU finished 64th in the Saragrin, UNI was 62 and ASU was 44. I'm not sure but I don't think I saw your name in the final AP poll either.
That's just one BCS computer poll champ. There are 6 and only one other tries to intermingle the divisions into some kind of ranking. Most don't bother because there is such a small sample of games that are played between the divisions it's pointless to try to compare or rank with accuracy. The other is Peter Wolfe. His poll said..

ECU #52
App #69

http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/ratings.htm#first

As far as your AP votes I read where they all came from one voter (I think out in NM) ranking you about 20 and that was the only one in hundreds that voted for you. Who knows what this writers credentials were. We did get some votes in the Masters Coaches poll and their voting panel are guys like, Vince Dooley, Georgia;LaVell Edwards, BYU; Don Nehlen, West Virginia; Tom Osborne, Nebraska. Hall of Famers that know football.

http://www.mcspoll.com/poll.htm

StillJonesin

January 25th, 2008, 09:20 PM

Compared to CNOcho, MASN is MASNueve. MASN reaches only 5.2M viewers, compared with CN8's 9M. That's why the CAA cut a deal with CN8 and not MASN for FB. Why limit yourself to the DC, VA & Carolinas, when you can have those areas plus Pittsburgh, New York, Boston, Philly and areas in between?

But, of course, UD also had several games simulcast on MASN, along with their games on CSN & the ESPN networks. Yeah, that FCS thing isn't working out too well for us.xlolx

Difference was we are talking an individual deal with them in which they produced and broadcast some of our games as well, not just a feed reshowing from another network. They did some of that too but also broadcast some of our games and we were the first and only football team they did according to their announcers. It was an individual deal which not a lot of schools have. I could pump up our conference deals with national stations like ESPN / CSTV where 9 of our games were also broadcast nationwide too. That's apples to apples when you bring up your conf deals which you have a hard time getting the difference. You just better hope you get to the postseason and deep in it if you want any national games. xthumbsupx

sure why not. Just for the record ECU finished 64th in the Saragrin, UNI was 62 and ASU was 44. I'm not sure but I don't think I saw your name in the final AP poll either.
That's just one BCS computer poll champ. There are 6 and only one other tries to intermingle the divisions into some kind of ranking. Most don't bother because there is such a small sample of games that are played between the divisions it's pointless to try to compare or rank with accuracy. The other is Peter Wolfe. His poll said..

ECU #52
App #69

http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/ratings.htm#first

As far as your AP votes I read where they all came from one voter (I think out in NM) ranking you about 20 and that was the only one in hundreds that voted. Who knows what this writers credentials were. We did get some votes in the Masters Coaches poll and their voting panel are guys like, Vince Dooley, Georgia;LaVell Edwards, BYU; Don Nehlen, West Virginia; Tom Osborne, Nebraska. Hall of Famers that know football.

http://www.mcspoll.com/poll.htm

Appinator

January 26th, 2008, 02:12 PM

As far as your AP votes I read where they all came from one voter (I think out in NM) ranking you about 20 and that was the only one in hundreds that voted. Who knows what this writers credentials were. We did get some votes in the Masters Coaches poll and their voting panel are guys like, Vince Dooley, Georgia;LaVell Edwards, BYU; Don Nehlen, West Virginia; Tom Osborne, Nebraska. Hall of Famers that know football.

http://www.mcspoll.com/poll.htm

Yes the AP poll that has crowned decades of National Champions. I guess that isn't too big of a deal compared to, what the "Masters Coaching Poll"? Which one do I want to put more stock in, the AP poll, or one that was created only 3 years ago with no legitimate history of accuracy or relevancy. Going to go with the AP, champ.

As for the Sarragin, I would go with the poll that has the most experience there as well. He's been giving ratings since 1985 on not only football, but numerous other sports. My main problem with the Wolfe poll is the placement of a 4-9 Washington team 3 spots ahead of ASU, but I would see where you wouldn't like the Sarrigan, as you are a solid 8 spots behind that same Husky team.

Lets just take an average of both like the BCS does. That would put App at 56.5, and we'll spot you and say we're at 57. The average of your two relative rankings is 58 on the nose. Sorry pall, the Pirates lose again.