Richmond to join the Patriot League in 2025

[Pards Rule]

We'll see what happens now. W&M hired away their coach Brian Earl.

WHO happens to be a graduate of my high school (with his brother Danny) Shawnee High School in Medford NJ! Go Renegades

[The Boogie Down]

The Richmond Spiders’ Patriot League Tale, Part Two: The CFA Splits College Football, And Splits Two Rivals


https://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-richmond-spiders-patriot-league-tale-part-two-the-cfa-splits-college-football-and-splits-two-rivals/

(https://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-richmond-spiders-patriot-league-tale-part-two-the-cfa-splits-college-football-and-splits-two-rivals/)

Random Q for LFN and anyone else who remembers the pre I-AA/FCS days. In terms of talent how would the Ivies, SoCon & MAC rank during the early/mid 1970s. Also, was the MAC drawing significantly better at that time? (Or at least better enough to legitimately stay at the I-A/FBS level.)

[Sader87]

Random Q for LFN and anyone else who remembers the pre I-AA/FCS days. In terms of talent how would the Ivies, SoCon & MAC rank during the early/mid 1970s. Also, was the MAC drawing significantly better at that time? (Or at least better enough to legitimately stay at the I-A/FBS level.)

I can't really speak for the SoCon and/or the MAC but the Ivies were still drawing pretty well through the early/mid 1970s. I know Holy Cross games at Harvard, Dartmouth and even Brown then were always in the 15-25K range. Yale drew very well then though we (HC) didn't play them in the 1970s. But I know they routinely drew in the 20-30K range.

Dartmouth was a Top 20 team in 1970. I know Toledo during that same era (late 60s/early70s) were also in that same Top 20 range as they won like 30 something regular season games in a row in that era....I don't know how well the Rockets drew then though.

I would guess that schools like Furman and The Citadel drew fairly well then too (15-20K) but I'm not entirely sure.

[FUBeAR]

I can't really speak for the SoCon and/or the MAC but the Ivies were still drawing pretty well through the early/mid 1970s. I know Holy Cross games at Harvard, Dartmouth and even Brown then were always in the 15-25K range. Yale drew very well then though we (HC) didn't play them in the 1970s. But I know they routinely drew in the 20-30K range.

Dartmouth was a Top 20 team in 1970. I know Toledo during that same era (late 60s/early70s) were also in that same Top 20 range as they won like 30 something regular season games in a row in that era....I don't know how well the Rockets drew then though.

I would guess that schools like Furman and The Citadel drew fairly well then too (15-20K) but I'm not entirely sure.About 13k in the FUBeAR Era
https://i.postimg.cc/W4tP3qSB/IMG-2957.jpg

[Go...gate]

Random Q for LFN and anyone else who remembers the pre I-AA/FCS days. In terms of talent how would the Ivies, SoCon & MAC rank during the early/mid 1970s. Also, was the MAC drawing significantly better at that time? (Or at least better enough to legitimately stay at the I-A/FBS level.)

I recall that all three conferences still had a pretty solid talent level. Can't say much about attendance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Random Q for LFN and anyone else who remembers the pre I-AA/FCS days. In terms of talent how would the Ivies, SoCon & MAC rank during the early/mid 1970s. Also, was the MAC drawing significantly better at that time? (Or at least better enough to legitimately stay at the I-A/FBS level.)

I think the talent level varied a lot. Broadly speaking the MAC and SoCon generally played in the Tangerine Bowl and generally speaking the MAC teams won, but just like today MAC and SoCon teams would periodically upset CFA schools. Notably William & Mary and Richmond qualified for the Tangerine Bowl at least once apiece in the early 1970s with losing records overall but winning records in the SoCon.

The Ivy League had some schools in the AP/Coaches' Top 25 and had some great individual talent, but they were never title contenders and Penn State almost never played Ivies (my general feeling, uncorroborated by documentary evidence, is that Joe Paterno hated the Ivies' guts). I would have put the Ivy's top teams at the level of Army and Navy, perhaps, at the time, with occasional AP presence.

Personally I would classify things as pre-1973 (when the NCAA was split in divisions) and post-1973. Almost overnight things changed. The CFA schools would gradually take over, mostly play themselves, get top rankings and marginalize everyone else over the next decade. It was then when the first proposal for stadium size/average attendance was floated for membership in Division I football, an invented criteria devised by CFA members to include only themselves and the schools they wanted.

On the other side of this invented criteria was everyone - the Ivies, MAC, SoCon, Missouri Valley, Big Sky - everybody. More accurately, though, some schools made the criteria for stadium size/attendance and others did not (for example, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Penn could have qualified, and others like Columbia, Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth could not). Many of them had smaller stadiums that averaged about 15,000 and could sometimes net more, which I believe also included the MAC schools. The MAC schools didn't draw especially well but furiously worked towards meeting the arbitrary criteria, sometimes creatively. Up until the 1981 deadline the MAC was very close to being force-classified to I-AA. So the answer to your question is sort of nuanced. I don't think their attendance was all that much significantly better than the MVFC or SoCon, but their schools and conference leadership were hell bent on making the criteria, and by hook or by crook they made it happen, so they made "enough" numbers to remain I-A as a group.

[DFW HOYA]

The Ivy League had some schools in the AP/Coaches' Top 25 and had some great individual talent, but they were never title contenders and Penn State almost never played Ivies (my general feeling, uncorroborated by documentary evidence, is that Joe Paterno hated the Ivies' guts). I would have put the Ivy's top teams at the level of Army and Navy, perhaps, at the time, with occasional AP presence.


Joe Paterno was a Brown grad and got his start there. It's probably less that he hated the Ivies but that was he was such a competitor that he hated any Eastern school that threatened his program-- he certainly scheduled that way.

This was not unique, of course. Knute Rockne famously avoided scheduling Catholic teams in the East (Fordham, Georgetown, Detroit, Holy Cross). When asked why, Rockne basically said he didn't want to share the spotlight with any other Catholic program.

[Sitting Bull]

I think the talent level varied a lot. Broadly speaking the MAC and SoCon generally played in the Tangerine Bowl and generally speaking the MAC teams won, but just like today MAC and SoCon teams would periodically upset CFA schools. Notably William & Mary and Richmond qualified for the Tangerine Bowl at least once apiece in the early 1970s with losing records overall but winning records in the SoCon.

The Ivy League had some schools in the AP/Coaches' Top 25 and had some great individual talent, but they were never title contenders and Penn State almost never played Ivies (my general feeling, uncorroborated by documentary evidence, is that Joe Paterno hated the Ivies' guts). I would have put the Ivy's top teams at the level of Army and Navy, perhaps, at the time, with occasional AP presence.

Personally I would classify things as pre-1973 (when the NCAA was split in divisions) and post-1973. Almost overnight things changed. The CFA schools would gradually take over, mostly play themselves, get top rankings and marginalize everyone else over the next decade. It was then when the first proposal for stadium size/average attendance was floated for membership in Division I football, an invented criteria devised by CFA members to include only themselves and the schools they wanted.

On the other side of this invented criteria was everyone - the Ivies, MAC, SoCon, Missouri Valley, Big Sky - everybody. More accurately, though, some schools made the criteria for stadium size/attendance and others did not (for example, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Penn could have qualified, and others like Columbia, Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth could not). Many of them had smaller stadiums that averaged about 15,000 and could sometimes net more, which I believe also included the MAC schools. The MAC schools didn't draw especially well but furiously worked towards meeting the arbitrary criteria, sometimes creatively. Up until the 1981 deadline the MAC was very close to being force-classified to I-AA. So the answer to your question is sort of nuanced. I don't think their attendance was all that much significantly better than the MVFC or SoCon, but their schools and conference leadership were hell bent on making the criteria, and by hook or by crook they made it happen, so they made "enough" numbers to remain I-A as a group.

That’s how I remember it. The MAC I think only had to clear half the members meeting requirements and they could bring the others along. I also remember Ohio U hosted Richmond in the transition period and they played at Ohio State in front of “20,000”, all geared to help gin up the numbers.

Back in these days, hardly anyone reported actual attendance. It was was all estimates, most of them very generous.

[bulldog10jw]

Joe Paterno was a Brown grad and got his start there. It's probably less that he hated the Ivies but that was he was such a competitor that he hated any Eastern school that threatened his program-- he certainly scheduled that way.


I think Paterno, despite being an Ivy Leaguer, felt like many of us did then and do now, that the Ivy League has gone too far in the other direction with respect to de-emphasis and especially regarding football. Football was, and still is, the root of all evil that must be regulated. I think Paterno's thoughts were, I live in the real world the Ivy League does not.

Trivia. Joe Paterno was offered the Yale head coaching position when John Pont stepped down after the 1964 season. Paterno was, I believe, an assistant at Penn State at the time. He turned Yale down and Yale promoted Carm Cozza for the 1965 season. Cozza was ready to accept the head coaching position at New Hampshire.

[DFW HOYA]

Trivia. Joe Paterno was offered the Yale head coaching position when John Pont stepped down after the 1964 season. Paterno was, I believe, an assistant at Penn State at the time. He turned Yale down and Yale promoted Carm Cozza for the 1965 season. Cozza was ready to accept the head coaching position at New Hampshire.

Paterno followed Rip Engle from Brown to Penn State and I wonder if Paterno knew Engle was coming to the end of his coaching run. Engle retired the next season with Paterno as coach in waiting.

[Franks Tanks]

I think Paterno, despite being an Ivy Leaguer, felt like many of us did then and do now, that the Ivy League has gone too far in the other direction with respect to de-emphasis and especially regarding football. Football was, and still is, the root of all evil that must be regulated. I think Paterno's thoughts were, I live in the real world the Ivy League does not.

Trivia. Joe Paterno was offered the Yale head coaching position when John Pont stepped down after the 1964 season. Paterno was, I believe, an assistant at Penn State at the time. He turned Yale down and Yale promoted Carm Cozza for the 1965 season. Cozza was ready to accept the head coaching position at New Hampshire.

I think this is most likely. Maybe early in Joe’s days as an assistant at PSU, he may have recruited in the same pool as the ivies, but by the late 60’s, PSU was a budding national power recruiting a different type of athlete.


Joe also spoke about feeling out of place at Brown. An Italian New Yorker rubbing shoulders with the “old” New England WASP families.

PSU played Brown in 1982, which I believe was their only game against an Ivy during Joe’s tenure.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think this is most likely. Maybe early in Joe’s days as an assistant at PSU, he may have recruited in the same pool as the ivies, but by the late 60’s, PSU was a budding national power recruiting a different type of athlete.


Joe also spoke about feeling out of place at Brown. An Italian New Yorker rubbing shoulders with the “old” New England WASP families.

PSU played Brown in 1982, which I believe was their only game against an Ivy during Joe’s tenure.

Penn State played Brown a year later in 1983. The Bears put up a great effort against a Top 20 PSU team losing 38-21.

In general, Penn State's schedules in the 1980s were awesome! Steady dose of regional institutions with some awesome intersectional games sprinkled in. The 1980s and early 90s were also the peak of the PSU-ND rivalry.

[ngineer]

Jim Hofher had a pretty good run, relatively speaking.

Where have you gone Marinaro...

[ngineer]

While no dates have been confirmed, supposedly there has been a commitment by Pitt to host Lehigh in the next 4-5 years...New coach said upon his arrival he wanted to schedule an FBS school about every two years; so, it looks like wheels in motion to get the program back to relevancy.

[DFW HOYA]

While no dates have been confirmed, supposedly there has been a commitment by Pitt to host Lehigh in the next 4-5 years...New coach said upon his arrival he wanted to schedule an FBS school about every two years; so, it looks like wheels in motion to get the program back to relevancy.

Good for the Engineers.

With the visible exception of Georgetown, which apparently can't/won't schedule opponents of substance, the PL teams are definitely raising the bar on scheduling.

[bonarae]

With the visible exception of Georgetown, which apparently can't/won't schedule opponents of substance, the PL teams are definitely raising the bar on scheduling.

The PL football teams' scheduling is trending in opposite directions... sigh can Georgetown schedule H&H games with PFL teams west of the Mississippi River and/or south of the Heartland? I think cross-regional games are the last straw on casual fans' relevance of the FCS. xsighx

[bonarae]

While no dates have been confirmed, supposedly there has been a commitment by Pitt to host Lehigh in the next 4-5 years...New coach said upon his arrival he wanted to schedule an FBS school about every two years; so, it looks like wheels in motion to get the program back to relevancy.

OK, can the PL finally convince the Trojan Horses (USC) to play an FCS? They're the last FBS to hold out on scheduling FCS... xrulesx

[DFW HOYA]

The PL football teams' scheduling is trending in opposite directions... sigh can Georgetown schedule H&H games with PFL teams west of the Mississippi River and/or south of the Heartland?

Can Georgetown aim above the Pioneer and the NEC? Yes.

Do they?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

While no dates have been confirmed, supposedly there has been a commitment by Pitt to host Lehigh in the next 4-5 years...New coach said upon his arrival he wanted to schedule an FBS school about every two years; so, it looks like wheels in motion to get the program back to relevancy.

If the Mountain Hawks are indeed trending towards national relevancy (I think next year will REALLY tell the tale) then Pitt is a great FBS get. The Panthers have had several close calls over the years with 1-AA/FCS teams.

I have never understood why Lehigh has not scheduled more games in Western PA and Eastern Ohio. It's a hotbed for recruiting and home to a strong alumni base. Duquesne, Pitt, Robert Morris, Kent State, Youngstown State, Akron, and Ohio are all practical FCS/FBS opponents.

[Go...gate]

In Paterno's books (I believe there are three), he recounts bad experiences at Brown because of his Italian heritage.

[MUHAWKS]

While no dates have been confirmed, supposedly there has been a commitment by Pitt to host Lehigh in the next 4-5 years...New coach said upon his arrival he wanted to schedule an FBS school about every two years; so, it looks like wheels in motion to get the program back to relevancy.


this would be awesome

[Franks Tanks]

In Paterno's books (I believe there are three), he recounts bad experiences at Brown because of his Italian heritage.

This is correct, and perhaps he was holding on to decades old animosity.

Funny, is that Joe tried to portray his program as an academically superior among the power programs. In some ways, I think he achieved that over the first 15 years or so of his tenure, and had some really amazing students come through the program. By the 90’s, PSU maintained better than average grad rates, but were mostly indiscernible from other major programs. PSU had plenty of dummies who didn’t care much about school come through the program.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is correct, and perhaps he was holding on to decades old animosity.

Funny, is that Joe tried to portray his program as an academically superior among the power programs. In some ways, I think he achieved that over the first 15 years or so of his tenure, and had some really amazing students come through the program. By the 90’s, PSU maintained better than average grad rates, but were mostly indiscernible from other major programs. PSU had plenty of dummies who didn’t care much about school come through the program.

By most accounts Kerry Collins' alcoholism became clear when he was at Penn State yet his behavior was ignored. There are some pretty "legendary" stories about him partying the night before games, showing up to pregame meals still drunk, playing hungover etc. The night before (Homecoming Weekend) the 1994 Ohio State game seems to be one of Kerry's most famous "performances".

Paterno also willingly recruited Gus Felder when his baggage came to light. That was a huge story in Northeast PA and signaled the beginning of the end of Berwick football as a national power.

[Franks Tanks]

By most accounts Kerry Collins' alcoholism became clear when he was at Penn State yet his behavior was ignored. There are some pretty "legendary" stories about him partying the night before games, showing up to pregame meals still drunk, playing hungover etc. The night before (Homecoming Weekend) the 1994 Ohio State game seems to be one of Kerry's most famous "performances".

Paterno also willingly recruited Gus Felder when his baggage came to light. That was a huge story in Northeast PA and signaled the beginning of the end of Berwick football as a national power.

I remember old Gus, and he’s doing well for himself.

https://huskers.com/staff/gus-felder

He is actually a Paterno success story.

By the time Joe was old, player behavior became an embarrassment at PSU. Dan Connor was harassing “special assistant” Joe Serra, who was at that point losing his mental faculties. This riled PSU fans big time as Joe was by all accounts a great guy (he was also a longtime assistant at Lafayette prior to PSU).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Excited that Lehigh is scheduling Pitt, if true, and can't wait to go there!

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Joe Paterno was a Brown grad and got his start there. It's probably less that he hated the Ivies but that was he was such a competitor that he hated any Eastern school that threatened his program-- he certainly scheduled that way.

This was not unique, of course. Knute Rockne famously avoided scheduling Catholic teams in the East (Fordham, Georgetown, Detroit, Holy Cross). When asked why, Rockne basically said he didn't want to share the spotlight with any other Catholic program.

More like that Paterno didn't need to schedule the Ivies. There were enough Eastern independents and occasional non-regional opponents to fill out the PSU slate. Besides, the Ivies were isolating themselves from major football. They chose to leave the club.

[Go...gate]

This is correct, and perhaps he was holding on to decades old animosity.

Funny, is that Joe tried to portray his program as an academically superior among the power programs. In some ways, I think he achieved that over the first 15 years or so of his tenure, and had some really amazing students come through the program. By the 90’s, PSU maintained better than average grad rates, but were mostly indiscernible from other major programs. PSU had plenty of dummies who didn’t care much about school come through the program.

After the second National Championship in 1986, things began to go downhill. There were a lot of academic casualties on the 1988 and 1989 teams.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I remember old Gus, and he’s doing well for himself.

https://huskers.com/staff/gus-felder

He is actually a Paterno success story.

By the time Joe was old, player behavior became an embarrassment at PSU. Dan Connor was harassing “special assistant” Joe Serra, who was at that point losing his mental faculties. This riled PSU fans big time as Joe was by all accounts a great guy (he was also a longtime assistant at Lafayette prior to PSU).

Great to see Felder had a successful outcome! When his scandal came to light it hurt both Curry's and Paterno's reputations. Obviously, more so Curry's.

[Pards Rule]

Reading? Yes.
Posting? Haven't in a long time. For now, this thread is pleanty of time-wasting entertainment.

Hey, look! A post from a Bucknell fan.

Hey BBAL I will be in Lewisburg later this month for our annual golf trip to BGC. Parents BU 61 and brother 86. We have basically been doing this since 1977! We used to stay at MODs now they are demoed. So is Country Cupboard - boo! A Wawa is coming to Rt 15 just next to Aldi! I found my tuxedo male cat Siete in a tree on the left side of #7 hole at BGC (hence his name) in 2017. Put him in golf cart for final couple holes (we play 9 first day after driving up) and he never attempted to get out! Hes here with me now on Long Beach Island NJ. Ray Bucknell! I will stop folks here walking on LBI with BU shirts to chat! And of course Lafayette shirts!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

More like that Paterno didn't need to schedule the Ivies. There were enough Eastern independents and occasional non-regional opponents to fill out the PSU slate. Besides, the Ivies were isolating themselves from major football. They chose to leave the club.

The Ivies didn't exactly have a lot of out-of-conference slots to spare. I think they had 9 game schedules and 2 OOC games that were generally reserved for YankCon opponents. But you're right, being an Eastern independent was very doable in the 1970s. And the Ivies made few friends, especially with the power programs.

[DFW HOYA]

The Ivies didn't exactly have a lot of out-of-conference slots to spare. I think they had 9 game schedules and 2 OOC games that were generally reserved for YankCon opponents. But you're right, being an Eastern independent was very doable in the 1970s. And the Ivies made few friends, especially with the power programs.

They also didn't schedule beyond their region. The 1978 Harvard schedule had seven home games...in a nine game schedule. At that point, Harvard hadn't played west of Pennsylvania since the 1940s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Harvard_Crimson_football_team

[Sitting Bull]

They also didn't schedule beyond their region. The 1978 Harvard schedule had seven home games...in a nine game schedule. At that point, Harvard hadn't played west of Pennsylvania since the 1940s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Harvard_Crimson_football_team

W&M began adding Ivy opponents in 1980 starting with a 4 game series with Dartmouth. I recall the excitement of the first game in Williamsburg, Jack Kemps son was the Dartmouth QB. The game was sold out and there were a couple thousand Dartmouth fans in attendance - it was noted I think that Dartmouth had not played near or south of DC in years, if ever. They heavily promoted the game. The Tribe won that game 17-14 and swept the following three games as well, all were within a TD.

W&M also hosted Harvard in 1981, Brown in 1982 and “hosted” Yale in the 1983 Oyster Bowl in Norfolk. Also played H/H vs Princeton and Penn in the late 80s. Since this flurry of games vs the Ivies in the 80s, W&M did host Harvard in 1993 for W&Ms 300th centennial and then a couple games with Penn about 10 years ago.

With our new ADs background playing at Dartmouth, I’m hoping he starts to add a few more Ivy games in the future. Harvard would be the biggest draw. Princeton would be as well,

[DFW HOYA]

W&M began adding Ivy opponents in 1980 starting with a 4 game series with Dartmouth. I recall the excitement of the first game in Williamsburg, Jack Kemps son was the Dartmouth QB. The game was sold out and there were a couple thousand Dartmouth fans in attendance - it was noted I think that Dartmouth had not played near or south of DC in years, if ever.

As with many FCS teams, distance and ESPN+ has curtailed the migration of road fans to games such as these. Fewer Ivy fans make the trip to DC; yes, the poor stadium amenities don't help, but it's not the social event it once was.

I can remember when Georgetown chartered a fan bus to Worcester. Now, it's parents of the players and little else.

[bulldog10jw]

“hosted” Yale in the 1983 Oyster Bowl in Norfolk.

If nothing else that game was famous for both teams showing up in their white uniforms.

[The Boogie Down]

I think the talent level varied a lot. Broadly speaking the MAC and SoCon generally played in the Tangerine Bowl and generally speaking the MAC teams won, but just like today MAC and SoCon teams would periodically upset CFA schools.... [The Ivy League had some schools in the AP/Coaches' Top 25 and had some great individual talent,]....



The reason I asked about MAC/SoCon/Ivy talent is b/c from your well written article, the CFA looked at attendance to decide on who stayed up and who was demoted into the I-AA/FCS ranks. And from what I understand, the MAC has been fudging gate numbers for decades. To be clear, all teams in all sports fudge attendance figures and when it comes to in-house numbers, few outside sources can argue differently. But, it's been rumored (to me at least) that the MAC is more creative than most.

Here's a random 2011 article I found on EMU: https://www.annarbor.com/news/eastern-michigan-university-struggles-to-increase-football-attendance/?cmpid=RSS_link_news

Seems like, even when going by their own books, they only averaged about 6,000 or so per game. During "NCAA counts" years those numbers went up dramatically but only after "selling" group tix to sponsors, like in their case, Pepsi.

So, to go back many decades earlier... Maybe back in the 1970s, the MAC simply lied their way to keep themselves from being demoted?

Or, maybe their overall talent level was sooo much better than the Ivies and SoCon that the CFA simply looked the other way in terms of attendance?

[Franks Tanks]

The reason I asked about MAC/SoCon/Ivy talent is b/c from your well written article, the CFA looked at attendance to decide on who stayed up and who was demoted into the I-AA/FCS ranks. And from what I understand, the MAC has been fudging gate numbers for decades. To be clear, all teams in all sports fudge attendance figures and when it comes to in-house numbers, few outside sources can argue differently. But, it's been rumored (to me at least) that the MAC is more creative than most.

Here's a random 2011 article I found on EMU: https://www.annarbor.com/news/eastern-michigan-university-struggles-to-increase-football-attendance/?cmpid=RSS_link_news

Seems like, even when going by their own books, they only averaged about 6,000 or so per game. During "NCAA counts" years those numbers went up dramatically but only after "selling" group tix to sponsors, like in their case, Pepsi.

So, to go back many decades earlier... Maybe back in the 1970s, the MAC simply lied their way to keep themselves from being demoted?

Or, maybe their overall talent level was sooo much better than the Ivies and SoCon that the CFA simply looked the other way in terms of attendance?

Having trouble finding the evidence, but I believe the MAC was forced down to 1-AA in 1981, and somehow regained 1-A status in 1982. Something like only 3 of their member schools met the 1-A criteria. Lawsuits may have been involved.

I can’t speak to the MAC’s reputation as a football conference in those days, but my assumption is that they were very much out of the spotlight and considered not part of big time college football.

[The Boogie Down]

OK, can the PL finally convince the Trojan Horses (USC) to play an FCS? They're the last FBS to hold out on scheduling FCS... xrulesx

The LA Times suggested a Fordham-USC game 10 years ago. This was back when we had Mike Nebrich, Tebucky Jones Jr. and an incoming freshman named Chase Edmonds on our squad. I think we coulda played with them (for a half). Here's the link: https://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-usc-ucla-college-football-fordham-20140603-story.html

On a personal note, I was in LA for work at the time and saw that in its print version. I nearly fell off my seat!!! Kinda slipping off now in realizing that was all 10 years ago!

[bonarae]

The LA Times suggested a Fordham-USC game 10 years ago. This was back when we had Mike Nebrich, Tebucky Jones Jr. and an incoming freshman named Chase Edmonds on our squad. I think we coulda played with them (for a half). Here's the link: https://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-usc-ucla-college-football-fordham-20140603-story.html

On a personal note, I was in LA for work at the time and saw that in its print version. I nearly fell off my seat!!! Kinda slipping off now in realizing that was all 10 years ago!

The Trojan Horses had UC Davis on the schedule several years ago but the former pulled out; the latter replacing them with Tulsa, resulting in a scalp for the FCS.

[Sader87]

They also didn't schedule beyond their region. The 1978 Harvard schedule had seven home games...in a nine game schedule. At that point, Harvard hadn't played west of Pennsylvania since the 1940s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Harvard_Crimson_football_team

Dartmouth won the Ivy title that year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Dartmouth_Big_Green_football_team

There were 22K at Fitton for the Dartmouth game that year.....a 35-0 W for the Saders who started out that season with wins over Army and Air Force.

I remember the late Buddy Teevans being knocked out of the game.....brutal hit alongside the Dartmouth bench.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Dartmouth won the Ivy title that year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Dartmouth_Big_Green_football_team

There were 22K at Fitton for the Dartmouth game that year.....a 35-0 W for the Saders who started out that season with wins over Army and Air Force.

I remember the late Buddy Teevans being knocked out of the game.....brutal hit alongside the Dartmouth bench.

Your post made me look up some of Lehigh's schedules in the 1970s. Their 1975 is probably the most interesting. Lehigh was damn good, 9-3 and Lambert Cup Champions (when it was a big deal)

Biggest crowd at Taylor in 1975 was for Penn (19,000) NOT Lafayette (17,300). This is the only documented time I found where Lafayette was not the highest attended home game.

Lehigh beat then longstanding rival Rutgers 34-20 at Taylor but only 11,500 attended. My guess is weather contributed to the small figure?

[The Boogie Down]

The Trojan Horses had UC Davis on the schedule several years ago but the former pulled out; the latter replacing them with Tulsa, resulting in a scalp for the FCS.

Until recently, the last remaining FBS schools to have not played FCS competition were USC rivals, UCLA and Notre Dame. Both chose to schedule HBCU's. Surprised USC hasn't done the same. Aside from that, UC Davis did make sense in a SoCal/NorCal type way. Sac State could have made some sense too but "UC" schools carry way more weight. Surprised UC Davis pulled out although I'm sure getting a scalp at Tulsa was better than getting pasted at the Coliseum.

As for Fordham however, I'd take the pasting! I guess I woulda liked our chances a wee bit more in 2014, and of course much more in 1941, but at the very least it would get our name out there. Especially the NY vs LA angle.

[Southsider]

Your post made me look up some of Lehigh's schedules in the 1970s. Their 1975 is probably the most interesting. Lehigh was damn good, 9-3 and Lambert Cup Champions (when it was a big deal)

Biggest crowd at Taylor in 1975 was for Penn (19,000) NOT Lafayette (17,300). This is the only documented time I found where Lafayette was not the highest attended home game.

Lehigh beat then longstanding rival Rutgers 34-20 at Taylor but only 11,500 attended. My guess is weather contributed to the small figure?


I believe that was the first time Penn visited Taylor. IIRC the goalposts came down! Not sure Rutgers was at Taylor, but pretty sure they were in 1976. Close game and Mark Weaver from Salisbury dropped a sure TD that may have won the game. Long time ago so memory s bit sketchy.........

[caribbeanhen]

I believe that was the first time Penn visited Taylor. IIRC the goalposts came down! Not sure Rutgers was at Taylor, but pretty sure they were in 1976. Close game and Mark Weaver from Salisbury dropped a sure TD that may have won the game. Long time ago so memory s bit sketchy.........

https://masseyratings.com/cf1976/4024

Rutgers at Lehigh 1976 …

good ole days

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

https://masseyratings.com/cf1976/4024

Rutgers at Lehigh 1976 …

good ole days

According to Wiki, Rutgers played at Taylor in 1975 and 1976. Lehigh won in 1975, Rutgers got their revenge the following season....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Lehigh_Engineers_football_team

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Until recently, the last remaining FBS schools to have not played FCS competition were USC rivals, UCLA and Notre Dame. Both chose to schedule HBCU's. Surprised USC hasn't done the same. Aside from that, UC Davis did make sense in a SoCal/NorCal type way. Sac State could have made some sense too but "UC" schools carry way more weight. Surprised UC Davis pulled out although I'm sure getting a scalp at Tulsa was better than getting pasted at the Coliseum.

As for Fordham however, I'd take the pasting! I guess I woulda liked our chances a wee bit more in 2014, and of course much more in 1941, but at the very least it would get our name out there. Especially the NY vs LA angle.

Notre Dame should have scheduled a Catholic school to break their FCS seal.

[Go...gate]

The Ivies didn't exactly have a lot of out-of-conference slots to spare. I think they had 9 game schedules and 2 OOC games that were generally reserved for YankCon opponents. But you're right, being an Eastern independent was very doable in the 1970s. And the Ivies made few friends, especially with the power programs.


Nine game schedules until 1980, ten game schedules since.

[UNHWildcat18]

From Richmond to PL to a bunch of old farts talking about historical PL games…Classic

[bonarae]

Meanwhile... putting the original topic back into discussion...

Will Richmond setting off to the PL put an end to the PL expansion story?

[Wolffan]

Villanova was the dream member for PL football but things are very quiet on that front. I'd say it is even odds of an arrival v a departure over the next five years.

[RichH2]

Meanwhile... putting the original topic back into discussion...

Will Richmond setting off to the PL put an end to the PL expansion story?

Settle it. ?? 🤣😅🏈 No,this is merely the ending of a chapter not the book.Now we pick up the Nova tale from Ch. 1.
Destroy FCS. Don't think so. If anything it may help more of FCS than it damages. NIL money doesn't change the annual talent pools. It will heavily weight the top talent. They will get the bulk of the available funding.Individual amounts will shrink substantially the further down the prospect pool you go.The FCS power leagues will be able to compete for the kids they get now