New Coach Grace Periods

[yosef1969]

Recent coaching changes (such as Taylor at FAMU and Wagner at WCU) got me thinking, how long should a head coach be given at the controls before he is deemed "a bad fit"?

Fairly or Unfairly Van Gorder was pegged a failure by many early on in Statesboro. If he hadn't made a move on his own, how much longer would he have been given? Or some might ask instead, how much damage could he have inflicted to the program by now? In hindsight probably a great thing for GSU because Hatcher seems to have been an excellent hire. I'd love to get a GSU perspective on that.

So how long does Wagner get at WCU to turn things around and what is deemed a "turn around"? Does a proven guy like Taylor get more of a benefit of the doubt?

I am of the belief that it's only fair to give a coach 5 years, allow one signing class to cycle through the program. I would say that success is overall positive progression (perceived and real), winning seasons and post season appearances. It's risky and it takes a great deal discipline for the decision makers to have that much patience these days.

Obviously history and expectations are big factors as well.

Your thoughts?

[appchuck]

I think 5 years is good, but I would want to see strides being made in the mean time, so if a team a coach takes over is 2-9, and 3 years later they are 3-8, I would be thinking it is time to do something, because the coach has not shown much if any improvement. But if you go from 2-9 to a 6-5 program in 3 years, I feel he deserves the 5 years.

[WCU LawCat]

For Wagner I would say that he gets all 5 years on his contract to turn it around. I believe he will get things going in the right direction right away or in year 2. If he stinks it up or is still getting whipped in his 4th year he might be canned.

[gophoenix]

Recent coaching changes (such as Taylor at FAMU and Wagner at WCU) got me thinking, how long should a head coach be given at the controls before he is deemed "a bad fit"?

Fairly or Unfairly Van Gorder was pegged a failure by many early on in Statesboro. If he hadn't made a move on his own, how much longer would he have been given? Or some might ask instead, how much damage could he have inflicted to the program by now? In hindsight probably a great thing for GSU because Hatcher seems to have been an excellent hire. I'd love to get a GSU perspective on that.

So how long does Wagner get at WCU to turn things around and what is deemed a "turn around"? Does a proven guy like Taylor get more of a benefit of the doubt?

I am of the belief that it's only fair to give a coach 5 years, allow one signing class to cycle through the program. I would say that success is overall positive progression (perceived and real), winning seasons and post season appearances. It's risky and it takes a great deal discipline for the decision makers to have that much patience these days.

Obviously history and expectations are big factors as well.

Your thoughts?

You have to ask yourself, how many 3-8 seasons would you give a coach before your fans complain after Moore retires?

[AppStsGr8]

I'd hate to follow Jerry Moore ... or Joe Paterno or Bear Bryant or any successful coach. I think the difference we're talking about here is the time allowed for turning around a lackluster team / program. If you take a winning program and turn it into a losing program, you've not done too much. Wagner at WCU faces a much tougher road. I hope he's incredibly successful; I'd love to see the battle for the Old Mountain Jug be a real game.

[CSUBUCDAD]

May not always be feasable, but you need to give all the players that the previous coach recruited a chance to get out of the program and all the ones the new coach recruited in. This is the only way to allow the coach to run HIS system with HIS type of player.

[Ivytalk]

Who's she?xconfusedx


:p

[Cobblestone]

I like a lot of what CSUBUCDAD had to say.

A coach needs time to fully implement HIS game plans with HIS players which HE recruited. That being said, we have a new coach coming in next season and I have a three year plan for him.

First, I'm giving him a pass for his first season since he will have to clean up the mess that Stowers made. Darren Rizzi will have a totally different type of offense and will need a QB who can pass and not an option type QB. Basically it'll be a complete teardown of what we have in place right now. Stowers knew nothing about defense so Rizzi will have to bring in his own DC and build that from scratch. Here again, he's getting a pass from me for his first season, I don't expect anything better than 3-8 or 4-7.

His second season I would expect to see HIS players learning and developing with HIS game plans, I'll be looking for 6-5 or 5-6 that year; improvement from his first season.

Third year, he will have almost entirely his own players who will have a full year of his system under their belts. I will expect a serious run at the CAA Championship and at the least a playoff appearance.

I also agree that a 5 year plan (grace period) is reasonable. Bottom line, I sure do expect more that 1 winning season in 8 years.

[813Jag]

I like a lot of what CSUBUCDAD had to say.

A coach needs time to fully implement HIS game plans with HIS players which HE recruited. That being said, we have a new coach coming in next season and I have a three year plan for him.

First, I'm giving him a pass for his first season since he will have to clean up the mess that Stowers made. Darren Rizzi will have a totally different type of offense and will need a QB who can pass and not an option type QB. Basically it'll be a complete teardown of what we have in place right now. Stowers knew nothing about defense so Rizzi will have to bring in his own DC and build that from scratch. Here again, he's getting a pass from me for his first season, I don't expect anything better than 3-8 or 4-7.

His second season I would expect to see HIS players learning and developing with HIS game plans, I'll be looking for 6-5 or 5-6 that year; improvement from his first season.

Third year, he will have almost entirely his own players who will have a full year of his system under their belts. I will expect a serious run at the CAA Championship and at the least a playoff appearance.

I also agree that a 5 year plan (grace period) is reasonable. Bottom line, I sure do expect more that 1 winning season in 8 years.
I agree, you have to give a coach a chance to implement his system and get his recruits on the field. 4 to 5 years is good unless by year 3 you're worse off than when he started. Also, instant success can be bad as well, lots of coaches win with the previous players. Sometimes coaches keep it going and sometimes when they get their own players the teams fall off.

[appstate38]

I like what all have had to say on the subject.... My 2 cents is as follows. For Wagner or anybody else to be successful in this transfer period, he will have to get the current players to buy into what he is trying to accomplish while recruiting his players. If he can manage that then the change will be alot smoother. One thing for sure winning and losing are contagious.

[UNHWildCats]

I think if your coaching at a school that has been real bad for many years, you should get 5 years, because its not like you can just come in and turn everything around... first you gotta convince recruits that a turnaround is gonna happen and that may take a couple years to do.

This isnt FCS but I think 2008 is the year for Weis, if they struggle again he's done, but I think they will be very good, maybe not top 5 but definatly top 15.

[appstate38]

I think if your coaching at a school that has been real bad for many years, you should get 5 years, because its not like you can just come in and turn everything around... first you gotta convince recruits that a turnaround is gonna happen and that may take a couple years to do.

This isnt FCS but I think 2008 is the year for Weis, if they struggle again he's done, but I think they will be very good, maybe not top 5 but definatly top 15.

UNH, Who was that lady standing with Bill Clinton???xlolx

[The Moody1]

You have to ask yourself, how many 3-8 seasons would you give a coach before your fans complain after Moore retires?

Since 1960 we have only had two 8 loss seasons ('77,'79). I don't think we will see any 3-8 seasons anytime soon no matter who is coaching, especially if we remain in the SoCon. Just because coach Moore retires doesn't mean we will turn into a door mat.

[OldRef]

Boy, I remember suffering thru Mike Working! What a savior Mack Brown was!

The coach needs to show progress. As long as its moving forward give him the doubt. However, in our "what have you donr for me today" mind set you dont see coaches get the time to get their programs started. I Conversely the job hoppers and ladder climbers also keep the cycle ugly.


Remember Coach Moore had a lot of seasons when the Fan's called for his head early on

[Go...gate]

Mark Murphy, Colgate AD at the time, fired Mike Foley after five full years in 1992 and his replacement, Ed Sweeney after three in 1995. In retrospect it is clear that Foley was given every chance to succeed (even a couple of bad years), while Sweeney was let go when it became clear that he and Colgate were not a good fit.

Sweeney and Foley were good men with excellent football backgrounds that ended up being successful elsewhere (Foley actually came back to Colgate and is now at UConn, and I believe Sweeney is in the D-II ranks)

Bottom line is that you just never know.

[WCU LawCat]

I think for Wagner at Western he has more tallent available than people realize. He will win no less than 3 games. I believe personally that he will either win 4 or 5. He very well could win more. He has brought in a solid core of coaches already (grand valley state DC to name just one). The players WANTED a new HC and deffinately a new DC. They got both. They will buy into any new system defensively. Wagner will probably run some type of West Coast Offense. He could move Hearns to another skill position and run reshirt Freshman Zack Janes at QB or bring in a transfer. There are several capable tailbacks ready to go. The O-line (wagner's specialty) needs a little bit of work.

[catamount man]

I think for Wagner at Western he has more tallent available than people realize. He will win no less than 3 games. I believe personally that he will either win 4 or 5. He very well could win more. He has brought in a solid core of coaches already (grand valley state DC to name just one). The players WANTED a new HC and deffinately a new DC. They got both. They will buy into any new system defensively. Wagner will probably run some type of West Coast Offense. He could move Hearns to another skill position and run reshirt Freshman Zack Janes at QB or bring in a transfer. There are several capable tailbacks ready to go. The O-line (wagner's specialty) needs a little bit of work.

The press conference is available on the web tomorrow big guy. Talked to BR tonight at the Furman game and he was giddy just thinking about Wagner, as were other several folks from Cullowhee who made the trip to Furman for the bball game.xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[WCU LawCat]

Good to hear that from...BR? Really? Interesting.

[catamount man]

Good to hear that from...BR? Really? Interesting.

Chip was smiling from ear to ear.xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx