More Impressive

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Michigan's win today over defending champion Florida should quiet all those out there that have down-played App State's victory over a "mediocre" Wolverine team --- WHAT A YEAR!!!

[AppStateold299]

I think Michigan has had quite a year. They have played a lot of hard teams as they always do and they have had a pretty good record. Everyone has given them crap for losing to Appalachian, but they are the 3 time champions now. I'm glad to see Carr go out on a high note after a few years of criticism. Great bookends to a season and I'm glad Michigan did have a good year so it makes us look better.

[Skjellyfetti]

My friend, I have been a Michigan fan for over 30 years. If you care to debate Michigan football, I will do so. Their team this year was easily the worst in the last 25 years.

xlolx xlolx

[smallcollegefbfan]

This probably helps ASU in the computer ratings in a big way. I would imagine that ASU jumps into the top 45-50 range in Sagarin.

[james_lawfirm]

I am not sure I agree with you all.

By that, I mean that even more impressive than the convoluted logic of "Michigan's success somehow reflects directly on App's success", is the numerous comments of the ESPN color commentators. They mentioned the ASU/Mich. game numerous times, and I did not detect a hint of derogatory comments aimed at Mich. The comments I heard were praise for ASU, and with one exception, Appalachian was correctly pronounced. If I remember correctly, I heard one direct comparison between Tebow and Edwards!!

Fact is, a school simply cannot buy that kind of publicity. And, the FCS schools as a whole gain as well.

Now, if ASU can just find someone to play next year ... xoopsx

[FCS Preview]

I am not sure I agree with you all.

By that, I mean that even more impressive than the convoluted logic of "Michigan's success somehow reflects directly on App's success", is the numerous comments of the ESPN color commentators.

Isn't that part of the premise of the GPI in MBB though? It's not just how well you do, but how well your opponents do, and how well your opponents opponents do...

[JohnStOnge]

I don't know about others but the last thing I said about Michigan is that they're clearly better than average but were also clearly over rated at #5 going in. I said that they're borderline top 25. And I think the final polls and power ratings will be consistent with that. I think they'll end up in the lower portion of or just outside the top 25 FBS teams in most of them.

Best I-A/FBS team ever beaten by a I-AA/FCS. Just not as good as people thought they were going to be going into the season.

I was pulling for Michigan today for a number of reasons. One is that the Wolverines probably will finish in the top 25 now and that to me is what really counts. I never have put much stock in the "they beat a top 25 team" thing until we see where that team that was beaten finishes. Now we'll probably be able to legitimately say that an FCS beat a top 25 FBS and not just one that was rated there early in the season but really wasn't top 25 in caliber.

Hopefully it won't be so long a wait until it happens again.

[BEAR]

Hey....another App. thread.......xcoffeex

Appygivensaturday.com<---------:D xlolx

[JohnStOnge]

Isn't that part of the premise of the GPI in MBB though? It's not just how well you do, but how well your opponents do, and how well your opponents opponents do...

I don't think that there's any doubt that how well Michigan did helped the perception of both App State in particular and FCS in general. If Michigan would've finished with a losing season I guarantee you that there would be a, "well, Michigan was just not very good" sentiment out there. And it'd be justifiable if that had happened. So it's good that it didn't, I think.

[JohnStOnge]

Hey....another App. thread.......xcoffeex

Appygivensaturday.com<---------:D xlolx

Hey, when you win three straight national championships and also beat a team from a program with Michigan's profile, you're going to get talked about.

And I think them beating Michigan, as well as Michigan turning out to be a solid BCS team, really was good for the whole FCS subdivision.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

And I think them beating Michigan, as well as Michigan turning out to be a solid BCS team, really was good for the whole FCS subdivision.

I agree!!! - and let's not forget that Michigan lost to APP, Oregon (who knows how high they would have risen if Dixon doesn't get hurt) at Wisconsin (who was ranked at high as #4 I believe) and against #2 Ohio St - people sometimes forget they ran off 8 straight wins, many against bowl teams - This UM was better than average ---

[Black and Gold Express]

Fact is, a school simply cannot buy that kind of publicity. And, the FCS schools as a whole gain as well.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the last part of that statement. I-AA gained nothing in general. ASU gained everything. About the only thing I-AA gained in the eyes of the general public was a consistent wondering of why we still were in that division.

Show me anything to prove that the division as a whole gained anything by this. When people talk of this game, do they mention anything other than ASU in terms of I-AA? Nowhere that I have seen.

Sure, I-A teams are choosing not to play us. But they're not running from I-AA teams as a whole. Didn't McNeese get picked up by an ACC school that refused to play us? That alone can lead one to suggest that it's been all about ASU, and not about the division. McNeese is a good I-AA team, a playoff team. That didn't deter a I-A school from playing them instead of us.

Sure some people will think they've been helped by this game by proxy, but the reality is that it is not the case. It's a delusional fantasy that should be put to bed.

[OL FU]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the last part of that statement. I-AA gained nothing in general. ASU gained everything. About the only thing I-AA gained in the eyes of the general public was a consistent wondering of why we still were in that division.

Show me anything to prove that the division as a whole gained anything by this. When people talk of this game, do they mention anything other than ASU in terms of I-AA? Nowhere that I have seen.

Sure, I-A teams are choosing not to play us. But they're not running from I-AA teams as a whole. Didn't McNeese get picked up by an ACC school that refused to play us? That alone can lead one to suggest that it's been all about ASU, and not about the division. McNeese is a good I-AA team, a playoff team. That didn't deter a I-A school from playing them instead of us.

Sure some people will think they've been helped by this game by proxy, but the reality is that it is not the case. It's a delusional fantasy that should be put to bed.


The one thing that it did for or against the remaining portion of FCS is that every time a BCS team plays an FCS team, the BCS coach will point to the UM/ASU game and say, "They are are in the same division as Appalachian, Don't over look them."xnodx

Of Course many, like Michigan did, will

[AppStsGr8]

Personally, I was glad to see Michigan win. It's nice to see Lloyd Carr go out on a high note and see Henne have a pretty good game. The win, in some very small ways, redeems the season for them. It was good, too, to see some of the same Michigan fans who were ready to lynch Carr after the App St loss waving signs and cheering Carr yesterday.

About the only mention I heard of App's win at Michigan was in the Auburn / Clemson game. It seems Auburn made some offensive changes prior to the bowl game. The announcer said that this new spread offense was the smae one App used to defeat Michigan. Other than that mention, the FBS club seems to have remained mostly silent about our beloved FCS.

OL FU, you're right. While FCS teams will probably never see the national media respect they deserve, they'll get respect from a much more important source - the coaches and players of FBS teams. I'd rather have the respect of someone who knows what's going on than the flippant ramblings of someone who makes a living as a talking head.

[ASUG8]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the last part of that statement. I-AA gained nothing in general. ASU gained everything. About the only thing I-AA gained in the eyes of the general public was a consistent wondering of why we still were in that division.

Show me anything to prove that the division as a whole gained anything by this. When people talk of this game, do they mention anything other than ASU in terms of I-AA? Nowhere that I have seen.

Sure, I-A teams are choosing not to play us. But they're not running from I-AA teams as a whole. Didn't McNeese get picked up by an ACC school that refused to play us? That alone can lead one to suggest that it's been all about ASU, and not about the division. McNeese is a good I-AA team, a playoff team. That didn't deter a I-A school from playing them instead of us.

Sure some people will think they've been helped by this game by proxy, but the reality is that it is not the case. It's a delusional fantasy that should be put to bed.

Listen to the Jim Grobe thread out there and tell me that FCS is not respected - let it buffer to the 7:30 mark and you'll hear why.

[citdog]

yawn

[OL FU]

yawn


Direct Quote from Mr. Schmecklebaumxnodx

[JohnStOnge]

During the aftermath of the App State win over Michigan, there was discussion of the fact that App State was a two time defending national champion. To me, that discussion did bring in the idea that teams at the top of FCS can be dangerous.

On the thing about North Carolina opting to play McNeese. Has North Carolina ever played a I-AA/FCS from the State of North Carolina? As far as I can tell they haven't. I don't know what the discussions were but I know of at least one school, LSU, that will not play an in state FCS. The only time it considered an exception was when McNeese was preparing to play for the 2002 national title. LSU suggested the Tigers might play the Cowboys to open 2003 if they won because it'd carry the extra novelty of playing the defending I-AA national champion.

North Carolina did not need the Appalacian State upset of Michigan to tell it top I-AA/FCS schools can be dangerous. The Tar Heels lost in 1999 to Furman in one of the most dominant wins a I-AA has ever had over a BCS league school. That didn't stop them from scheduling Furman again. And they almost got beaten again (45-42 in 2006).

Look, I realize that Michigan was the best team ever beaten by a I-AA/FCS but it's not the first time top teams have gotten indications that they could have problems with squads from the lower subdivision. In 1988Georgia Southern led a Florida State team that finished ranked 3rd in both major polls about halfway through the fourth quarter. That didn't stop the Seminoles from playing Georgia Southern again in 1990. Eastern Washington lost by two points in 2000 to an Oregon State team that finished 5th in both major polls. BCS league teams didn't stop scheduling the Eagles.

In one way, App State has an advantage over other FCS teams in that a game with App State is likely to generate more interest and sell more tickets. Meanwhile, at least next year, the coach doesn't have to worry about getting his players to focus and take the Mountaineers seriously.

I see this thing where small schools say bigger schools don't want to play them all the time. I saw it from Marshall fans back when they were winning after first leaving I-AA. I've seen it from others. I've always been skeptical of it. I think there are many reasons for why BCS league schools schedule the way they do and I don't think being worried about the possibility of an upset by even a championship caliber FCS team is high on the list for most of them.

[TheValleyRaider]

I see this thing where small schools say bigger schools don't want to play them all the time. I saw it from Marshall fans back when they were winning after first leaving I-AA. I've seen it from others. I've always been skeptical of it. I think there are many reasons for why BCS league schools schedule the way they do and I don't think being worried about the possibility of an upset by even a championship caliber FCS team is high on the list for most of them.

I think it's higher on the list in the North Carolina example w/ ASU compared to Furman. UNC is concerned about their standing within the state, and so refuses to play any NC based team. That includes Western Carolina, NC A&T and others along with App. State. North Carolina also struggles to be a consistently good football program. In 2003, LSU was in position to make a run at the National Title (which they ended up doing). Their legacy was secure, and they were significantly more talented than McNeese. They don't share the same concerns as a North Carolina.

I agree that it's not the only reason, and I'm certainly not saying they're afraid to schedule App. State, but in a case like UNC, that consideration plays a bigger role than it does with, say, LSU.

[JohnStOnge]

UNC is concerned about their standing within the state, and so refuses to play any NC based team. That includes Western Carolina, NC A&T and others along with App. State. .

To me what you're saying is that it's not because App had a great season, beat Michigan, etc., because you're saying they won't play any NC based FCS. I interpret that to mean they wouldn't play Appalachian State regardless.

That makes it sound more like they've taken an LSU-like posture of saying they won't play "in state" FCS teams. Believe me, McNeese fans don't like that. They'll play horrible Louisiana FBS squads like Louisiana Monroe (which McNeese beat in 2002) and Louisiana Lafayette (which McNeese beat this past season). They'll play out of State FCS teams if they need to fill a schedule spot. But they will not give McNeese a shot at the big payday because they have a strict policy of not playing "in state" FCS squads.

Course, as noted, they were at least willing to make an exception if McNeese had won the I-AA national title.

[ASUMountaineer]

Hey....another App. thread.......xcoffeex

Appygivensaturday.com<---------:D xlolx


I like your assessment. :D

[TheValleyRaider]

To me what you're saying is that it's not because App had a great season, beat Michigan, etc., because you're saying they won't play any NC based FCS. I interpret that to mean they wouldn't play Appalachian State regardless.

That makes it sound more like they've taken an LSU-like posture of saying they won't play "in state" FCS teams. Believe me, McNeese fans don't like that. They'll play horrible Louisiana FBS squads like Louisiana Monroe (which McNeese beat in 2002) and Louisiana Lafayette (which McNeese beat this past season). They'll play out of State FCS teams if they need to fill a schedule spot. But they will not give McNeese a shot at the big payday because they have a strict policy of not playing "in state" FCS squads.

Course, as noted, they were at least willing to make an exception if McNeese had won the I-AA national title.

That's of course, my guess, at least. LSU it appears does have the same policy, although even if they make the exception after 2002, it's only because they know they can sell the game in a decent way

[appstate38]

Unfortunately fellow AGS'ers it will be short lived. By next season the ESPN's and the rest of the FBS will have forgotten all about 2007, until another upstart FCS school rises up and bites them.

[JohnStOnge]

That's of course, my guess, at least. LSU it appears does have the same policy, although even if they make the exception after 2002, it's only because they know they can sell the game in a decent way

I think it's also because they could've had a reason for making an exception. LSU committed to playing the other three public FBS teams (La. Tech, ULM, ULL) on a rotating basis. They said they wouldn't play any in state I-AAs because there were too many of them (6 if I'm thinking right) and it wouldn't be fair to play favorites. McNeese winning the national title would've made it a "unique" situation.

[appchuck]

Unfortunately fellow AGS'ers it will be short lived. By next season the ESPN's and the rest of the FBS will have forgotten all about 2007, until another upstart FCS school rises up and bites them.

I believe you are correct, except when Michigan plays. Announcers might bring it up then, I feel it is sort of like the Doug Flutie pass and the Cal/Stanford game. I still hear about the Boise/OU game. (On the same lines beside JMU and ASU fans, you will hear nothing about the great game in the playoffs except among us on that weekend in September)