2007 Playoffs: What we learned

[bench]

With all the debate over conference supremacy, seedings, and playoff predictions back in November, I thought it would be interesting to see exactly how things shook out:

* They Got HOW MANY?: Much was made of the CAA's record five selections, and whether or not they deserved all five (or which team received the fifth invite), they acquitted themselves well. UNH took the top seed to the limit, JMU took the eventual champion to the limit, Richmond knocked off the SoCon co-champ, and Delaware swept the Gateway. The only possible underperformer was UMass, who I expected to have a stronger showing.

* O-ver-ra-ted: McNeese State. Key injuries definitely played a factor, but to get smoked by four scores in a loss to Eastern Washington as the second seed is fairly damning. Third-seeded Montana can be considered a disappointment, and maybe hopes were a little too high, but they weren't overrated. There's no shame in losing on a last-second field goal attempt to Wofford, the SoCon co-champ who knocked off eventual national champion Appalachian State earlier in the season. The Gateway and their pair of seeded representatives weren't overrated, per se, but they didn't perform up to expectations, either.

* Surprises Aplenty: Besides the two and three seeds falling in the first round as mentioned in the previous item, Northern Iowa was the consensus team to beat as the top seed with home-field throughout, but didn't even make it out of the quarterfinals. Delaware, the team that knocked the Panthers out of the playoffs, limped into the postseason with consecutive losses to Richmond and Villanova, then surprisingly ripped off three straight wins, two of them against seeded teams on the road. Eastern Washington was unheralded as the second representative out of the Big Sky, but they thrashed McNeese and came up just short against ASU.

* Fumbles from Heaven: There's no sense in rehashing the defining play of the postseason, but if you haven't already, it's time to cut Mickey Matthews some slack. The last two crucial decisions he made went against him, but his aggressive yet risky strategy was what kept the Dukes in the game to begin with. A punt or field goal attempt on any of the four previous fourth-downs they ended up converting would have completely changed the course of the game. They failed to convert the fifth, but that calculated risk still gave them the ball last and an opportunity to win, which brings us to yet another "Miracle on the Mountain" in Appalachian's favor. Running a play to kill some more clock and center the ball for the field goal attempt or punch it in for six wasn't a particularly dangerous or unorthodox call, it just happened to turn out badly. If you're going to fault him for anything, fault him for taking the ball out of Landers' hands, but don't blame him for having faith in his players and managing the game accordingly. His gameplan was masterful, well-executed, and gave his team their best possible chance of beating the Mountaineers. The only coach I saw this year that has the massive stones Mickey does is Les Miles.

* From Coronary to Coronation: This year's Mountaineer team wasn't the wrecking crew from last year. Nothing came easily - injuries, defensive woes, last-second heroics - for the Cardiac Apps. You'd need both hands to count the figurative heart attacks they gave their fans over the course of the season, but the literal heart the team showed in overcoming adversity was immeasurable. They finally got healthy down the stretch, they got a huge break when they needed it, and from there it was deja vu, all over again.

* Armanti Edwards is a Badass: Yes. Yes he is.

Let us know what else we learned, or you can even let me know that what I learned was lies.

[WMTribe90]

Good post, I agree with all of that. The CAA did prove itself worthy of 5 teams. I don't think it'll happen again anytime soon, but the committee should feel vindicated in their 2007 selections and not be afraid to do the same again if needed.

I agree Mickey should get credit for taking chances and trying to pull an upset on the road by keeping the ASU offense off the field. I do think he deserves some blame for attempting a handoff in that situation. If the goal is simply to chew up some clock before attempting a game winner, than keep the ball in Landers hands and let him take a knee. The criticism has been disprportionate to the scale of the blunder, but an error IMO.

Overall, a great playoff that once again proved that between the lines in the only place to decide a national champion!

[appstate38]

Coach Matthews and the Dukes have nothing to be ashamed of.... Big plays were made by all on both sides of the ball... Great Post!

[james_lawfirm]

I would add one more point. What I learned was that speed really has been the deciding factor on the field, especially for ASU. The two Ls might be described as a loss to faster teams, at least the teams on the field those days.

And that brings me to my second point. I have been watching, not as enthusiastically as I watch FCS football, but watching nonetheless, the bowl games. Did anyone else out there watch Arizona State play Texas last night? And did both teams seem like they were mired in quicksand all night long? It sure did to me. I came away thinking, and it was a really poorly played and poorly executed game, that App could beat either of them with their team speed. I kept expecting to see Az.State put in some faster backs or at least someone who could turn the corner on the Texas DEs. Never happened.

Here's my point. Sooner or later, these FBS teams will figure out that speed is the answer. Here in the FCS, especially the SoCon, we know this. The days of big, fat boys playing football is over, at least on winning teams. Michigan might just have a head start on some others. Ya' reckon?

[appstate38]

I would add one more point. What I learned was that speed really has been the deciding factor on the field, especially for ASU. The two Ls might be described as a loss to faster teams, at least the teams on the field those days.

And that brings me to my second point. I have been watching, not as enthusiastically as I watch FCS football, but watching nonetheless, the bowl games. Did anyone else out there watch Arizona State play Texas last night? And did both teams seem like they were mired in quicksand all night long? It sure did to me. I came away thinking, and it was a really poorly played and poorly executed game, that App could beat either of them with their team speed. I kept expecting to see Az.State put in some faster backs or at least someone who could turn the corner on the Texas DEs. Never happened.

Here's my point. Sooner or later, these FBS teams will figure out that speed is the answer. Here in the FCS, especially the SoCon, we know this. The days of big, fat boys playing football is over, at least on winning teams. Michigan might just have a head start on some others. Ya' reckon?

The speed factor really reared its head when Florida took down Ohio State last year. It seems that the SEC is considered in most circles as the conference that has the market cornered on speed.

[james_lawfirm]

The speed factor really reared its head when Florida took down Ohio State last year. It seems that the SEC is considered in most circles as the conference that has the market cornered on speed.

Yep, I noticed that one too. It seems that most football guys were surprised by that one - I don't think I heard anyone pick Florida. Most predicted an OSU blowout. (Kinda like ASU's game on 9/1/07!) OSU looked like they were treading water the entire game. I predict they are getting ready for deja vu all over again with LSU.

Question is: How long will it take before most coaches figure this out? Don't know, but I bet a bunch that don't get it get fired before they catch on.

And, Michigan might just be the first Big 10 school to emphasize speed. At least that is what I am guessing their new coach will do.

[appstate38]

Yep, I noticed that one too. It seems that most football guys were surprised by that one - I don't think I heard anyone pick Florida. Most predicted an OSU blowout. (Kinda like ASU's game on 9/1/07!) OSU looked like they were treading water the entire game. I predict they are getting ready for deja vu all over again with LSU.

Question is: How long will it take before most coaches figure this out? Don't know, but I bet a bunch that don't get it get fired before they catch on.

And, Michigan might just be the first Big 10 school to emphasize speed. At least that is what I am guessing their new coach will do.

I agree, the only thing is that he does not have the horses yet to run past people yet... It may take 2-3 years to get the athletes necessary to do it.

[DetroitFlyer]

The 2007 field was a complete joke. Five teams from one conference CLEARLY demonstrated the FBS like corruption that has permeated FCS. Dayton was clearly a playoff caliber team and yet had to sit home and watch the OVC teams, two of them lose in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to watch the vaunted MEAC champion get dismantled in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to sit home and watch Fordham participate in the playoffs. A team Dayton defeated at Fordham in 2007.

The 2007 championship was partially decided on the field. Until the FBS corruption is purged from the FCS playoff selection process, FCS will be only marginally better than FBS.

Follow the FBS corruption, follow the money that the NCAA covets, and the faults in the current process become very clear for anyone with courage to look the process square in the eye.

Lesson learned? Probably not for most here, and that my friends is sad indeed.

[Ud1Hens]

The 2007 field was a complete joke. Five teams from one conference CLEARLY demonstrated the FBS like corruption that has permeated FCS. Dayton was clearly a playoff caliber team and yet had to sit home and watch the OVC teams, two of them lose in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to watch the vaunted MEAC champion get dismantled in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to sit home and watch Fordham participate in the playoffs. A team Dayton defeated at Fordham in 2007.

The 2007 championship was partially decided on the field. Until the FBS corruption is purged from the FCS playoff selection process, FCS will be only marginally better than FBS.

Follow the FBS corruption, follow the money that the NCAA covets, and the faults in the current process become very clear for anyone with courage to look the process square in the eye.

Lesson learned? Probably not for most here, and that my friends is sad indeed.

All year we have heard the same thing from Dayton. Your lost to Morehead St. hurt you bad. If a team from the Pioneer wants to get a bid, lose the fake Championship game and challenge yourself out of conference. Calling the entire FCS Playoff Field a joke is not a way to gain credibility. I would have taken a few teams over Dayton (if all had 7 D-1 wins)...Villanova and Georgia Southern off the top of my head.

[APP91]

I agree, the only thing is that he does not have the horses yet to run past people yet... It may take 2-3 years to get the athletes necessary to do it.

See: Illinois vs. Ohio State, 2007

[bench]

I agree, the only thing is that [Rodriguez] does not have the horses yet to run past people yet... It may take 2-3 years to get the athletes necessary to do it.

He's running the spread, and all you really need is a quarterback. A QB who fits the system immediately makes everyone else better. The line doesn't have to be great, because the quarterback's elusiveness can overcome a missed blocking assignment. The running back doesn't have to be great, since the defense has to key so heavily on the QB. The wide receivers don't have to be great, since spreading the field and the threat of the quarterback taking off will increase their chances of getting open.

APP91 is right. Wasn't Illinois 3-9 or something like that last year? Insert Juice Williams and they're going to the Rose Bowl. The spread combined with a quarterback who can run the offense turned the program around in just a year.

[Mountaineer#96]

The 2007 field was a complete joke. Five teams from one conference CLEARLY demonstrated the FBS like corruption that has permeated FCS. Dayton was clearly a playoff caliber team and yet had to sit home and watch the OVC teams, two of them lose in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to watch the vaunted MEAC champion get dismantled in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to sit home and watch Fordham participate in the playoffs. A team Dayton defeated at Fordham in 2007.

The 2007 championship was partially decided on the field. Until the FBS corruption is purged from the FCS playoff selection process, FCS will be only marginally better than FBS.

Follow the FBS corruption, follow the money that the NCAA covets, and the faults in the current process become very clear for anyone with courage to look the process square in the eye.

Lesson learned? Probably not for most here, and that my friends is sad indeed.

Are you so sure?

Dayton at App State in 2008 then? Tell your AD to contact ours, maybe if you guys win the FCS selection process might give you a look next year if you don't lose to a Morehead State. If you guys get blown out which very well likely would happen, then you guys will know that all the San Diego's/Dayton's of the world need to figure out that playing in the PFL doesn't give you respect or a chance at the Title. Beating up on NAIA's and Butler all year long doesn't give you a shot.

The biggest change I would want to see is a play in game for a PFL/Big South/ or other at large teams...

[eagle1]

Surprise:
App State is that good and finds a way to win.

Disappointment:
Northern Iowa loss at home to Delaware

Up and comer:
EWU xnodx which beat McNeese State at home and then lost to eventual national champion App State by 3 points

[Tribe4SF]

The 2007 field was a complete joke. Five teams from one conference CLEARLY demonstrated the FBS like corruption that has permeated FCS. Dayton was clearly a playoff caliber team and yet had to sit home and watch the OVC teams, two of them lose in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to watch the vaunted MEAC champion get dismantled in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to sit home and watch Fordham participate in the playoffs. A team Dayton defeated at Fordham in 2007.

The 2007 championship was partially decided on the field. Until the FBS corruption is purged from the FCS playoff selection process, FCS will be only marginally better than FBS.

Follow the FBS corruption, follow the money that the NCAA covets, and the faults in the current process become very clear for anyone with courage to look the process square in the eye.

Lesson learned? Probably not for most here, and that my friends is sad indeed.

Dayton certainly had a case for consideration, but that case wasn't really bolstered til the win over Albany. The problems with the Dayton resume are obvious, and the PFL schools have always known the realities of their league.

Throwing around terms like "corruption", and "courage" may help you vent your frustration, but they won't help you learn any lessons. If you "look the process square in the eye" you'll see a New Hampshire team that went into Huntington, WV and won a game that eventually got them a playoff berth. So get the Dayton AD to schedule a trip to the Thundering Herd, and maybe that square-eyed view will have the Flyers in focus next time.

[blueballs]

Dear Dayton, San Diego, and all the other "mid majors" who consider themselves playoff worthy:

Play a SoCon or CAA schedule, while mixing in a road game against a FBS, then get back to us.

Sincerely:

Blueballs

[mountaineertider]

What I learned this playoff season:

- Speed kills
- Never count a team out that has a killer offense (and I'm talking EWU, not ASU)
- The CAA actually might have deserved the five spots they got.
- Dayton and SD will expect to make the playoffs with a schedule that Guilford College would find easy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
- Armanti Edwards is the man.
- Richmond will be a pesky team in the CAA the next two years. They will win the CAA one year.
- James Madison's streamer things are really annoying and I hope I don't get them thrown at me or anything next season.
- App's defense might be pretty stout next season.

[mrklean]

Jayson Foster never got to get on the field. Now thats a shame. Knowing what we know now, GSU would have gotten deep deep into the playoffs!!!!

GATA!

[Eight Legger]

What I learned is what I already knew: the CAA and SoCon are far and away the best conferences in FCS, and all our teams represented themselves accordingly. Meanwhile the undefeated frauds bit the dust early, again, as expected by everyone except the fools who seeded them in the first place. And the same thing will no doubt happen next year too.

Those who can't remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

[Mountaineer#96]

Dear Dayton, San Diego, and all the other "mid majors" who consider themselves playoff worthy:

Play a SoCon or CAA schedule, while mixing in a road game against a FBS, then get back to us.

Sincerely:

Blueballs

Bump x2 xrulesx

beating up on NAIA's doesn't make you look good......

[Mountaineer#96]

Dayton 2007 schedule
Sept. 1 Robert Morris
Sept. 8 Urbana 6-5 NAIA xsmhx
Sept. 15 Central State 5-6 DII :(
Sept. 22 Fordham
Sept. 29 Morehead State*
Oct. 6 Jacksonville*
Oct. 13 Davidson*
Oct. 20 Valparaiso*
Oct. 27 San Diego*
Nov. 3 Butler*
Nov. 10 Drake

[udchuck]

Are you so sure?

Dayton at App State in 2008 then? Tell your AD to contact ours, maybe if you guys win the FCS selection process might give you a look next year if you don't lose to a Morehead State. If you guys get blown out which very well likely would happen, then you guys will know that all the San Diego's/Dayton's of the world need to figure out that playing in the PFL doesn't give you respect or a chance at the Title. Beating up on NAIA's and Butler all year long doesn't give you a shot.

The biggest change I would want to see is a play in game for a PFL/Big South/ or other at large teams...

Big Deal,App State got lucky,beat Michigan looking ahead. I would love to have seen Dayton play that overrated team ( App State )
even tho Dayton being a Non Scolly team.[The whole PFL is non Scolly] just in case you just woke up.--
Every one complains that UD lost to Morehead State,another big deal If that game was a win and Dayton goes undefeated the new remarks would be [Look at the weak schedule, Dayton can't play with the big boys.]
I hope App State plays Michigan again [BIG money too be made]. better yet, lets see who App State plays next year.I just can't wait,you will be taken down off that cloud your riding.--providing of course you play a Team the quality of Michigan.;)

[mountaineertider]

Big Deal,App State got lucky,beat Michigan looking ahead. I would love to have seen Dayton play that overrated team ( App State )
even tho Dayton being a Non Scolly team.[The whole PFL is non Scolly] just in case you just woke up.--
Every one complains that UD lost to Morehead State,another big deal If that game was a win and Dayton goes undefeated the new remarks would be [Look at the weak schedule, Dayton can't play with the big boys.]
I hope App State plays Michigan again [BIG money too be made]. better yet, lets see who App State plays next year.I just can't wait,you will be taken down off that cloud your riding.--providing of course you play a Team the quality of Michigan.;)

Well, we would, but ya know since we played the big boys and won, they are kinda trepid to play us.

And I bet if you ask anyone that knows football, they will say App beat Michigan, we weren't lucky.

[DetroitFlyer]

Corruption is rampant in the FCS playoff selection process. It is all about money. Dayton did not spend enough on football to buy a playoff bid. Apparently, the OVC did, the MEAC did and the PL did. If you choose not to see this, you are caught up in the corruption yourself. The corrupt powers that be would prefer to give five bids to a conference that has purchased the bids, while leaving a deserving Dayton at home. Winning the PFL should warrant a bid period. Oh, so you want to talk about conference rankings do you? The OVC was ranked about the same as the PFL and got two freakin teams in.... You pay your money and you buy your bid!!!!!!!!! The process is corrupt and driven by the almighty dollar. Same as FBS.

Keep your heads in the sand if it makes you feel better, but do not even think about hammering FBS.... I have heard that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[phillyAPP]

Corruption is rampant in the FCS playoff selection process. It is all about money. Dayton did not spend enough on football to buy a playoff bid. Apparently, the OVC did, the MEAC did and the PL did. If you choose not to see this, you are caught up in the corruption yourself. The corrupt powers that be would prefer to give five bids to a conference that has purchased the bids, while leaving a deserving Dayton at home. Winning the PFL should warrant a bid period. Oh, so you want to talk about conference rankings do you? The OVC was ranked about the same as the PFL and got two freakin teams in.... You pay your money and you buy your bid!!!!!!!!! The process is corrupt and driven by the almighty dollar. Same as FBS.

Keep your heads in the sand if it makes you feel better, but do not even think about hammering FBS.... I have heard that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.



YOU PEOPLE (PFL) ARE PITYFULL xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx

PLAY AND BEAT A GOOD TEAM OUTSIDE OF CONFERENCE AND THEN YOU CAN CONPLAIN.

AGAIN, APP IS LOOKING FOR 2 GAMES. MAKE THE CALL. WE WOULD PROBIBLY PAY YOU TO COME TO BOONE. MAKE THE COMMITMENT, WIN THE GAME, AND THEN BRAG AND COMPLAIN.

PS- don't pick on APP, we earned every win and lose.

[grizband]

Corruption is rampant in the FCS playoff selection process. It is all about money. Dayton did not spend enough on football to buy a playoff bid. Apparently, the OVC did, the MEAC did and the PL did. If you choose not to see this, you are caught up in the corruption yourself. The corrupt powers that be would prefer to give five bids to a conference that has purchased the bids, while leaving a deserving Dayton at home. Winning the PFL should warrant a bid period. Oh, so you want to talk about conference rankings do you? The OVC was ranked about the same as the PFL and got two freakin teams in.... You pay your money and you buy your bid!!!!!!!!! The process is corrupt and driven by the almighty dollar. Same as FBS.

Keep your heads in the sand if it makes you feel better, but do not even think about hammering FBS.... I have heard that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Your non-conference schedule included an NAIA (Urbana) and a DII (Central State); granted you did beat a playoff team in Fordham. Playing in the PFL will not earn Dayton much respect from the selection committee, you must earn your berth through a formidable non-conference schedule. Schedule games against other FCS schools in the region, beat them, and then you will be a more attractive option for selection.

[SeattleGriz]

Speed on the offense is what won the championship for App this year.

The ability of App to score pretty much at will negated the fact Apps Defense and Special teams weren't that great against playoff teams.

By the way, because App scored so many points, it really gave your D a chance to face one dimensional teams.

Simply amazing what that offense did to other teams.

[Eight Legger]

I don't like bashing one of our fellow A-10 basketball schools, but you Dayton people are making it hard not to. What do you think your record would have been in the CAA or the SoCon? Honestly? I would venture to say that you could pick any of the teams from those two leagues that made the playoffs this year and they'd go undefeated in your league. You'd be lucky to play .500 ball in either one of ours. That's just a fact.

I don't think you need to go to Boone and get creamed to make a point, but you should play some games at Villanova, Elon, Rhode Island -- SOMEONE from one of our conferences that will at least allow the committee to see how you measure up. If you beat those upper mid level teams in the best leagues, then your own league record looks a lot better. It's nice that you beat Fordham, but that's not exactly a great argument for why you should make the playoffs. Schedule better!!

[bench]

The corrupt powers that be would prefer to give five bids to a conference that has purchased the bids, while leaving a deserving Dayton at home.

You really think corruption is holding the Flyers back? No amount of money would change the fact that Dayton had a grand total of one okay win and one horrible loss. Deserving teams don't lose to D-II opponents. You expect us to believe your first-round game wouldn't have been a squash?

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF167-Punch_Bout.gif

[downbythebeach]

Despite what people on this board say the CAA in no way deserved 5 bids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eight Legger]

Despite what people on this board say the CAA in no way deserved 5 bids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a pretty solid argument there. I especially liked the way you supported it with facts.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

You really think corruption is holding the Flyers back? No amount of money would change the fact that Dayton had a grand total of one okay win and one horrible loss. Deserving teams don't lose to D-II opponents. You expect us to believe your first-round game wouldn't have been a squash?

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF167-Punch_Bout.gif



I loved Punchout.....my sons and nephews still have a tourny every summer.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

On a system that's older then they are.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Big Deal,App State got lucky,beat Michigan looking ahead. I would love to have seen Dayton play that overrated team ( App State )
even tho Dayton being a Non Scolly team.[The whole PFL is non Scolly] just in case you just woke up.--
Every one complains that UD lost to Morehead State,another big deal If that game was a win and Dayton goes undefeated the new remarks would be [Look at the weak schedule, Dayton can't play with the big boys.]
I hope App State plays Michigan again [BIG money too be made]. better yet, lets see who App State plays next year.I just can't wait,you will be taken down off that cloud your riding.--providing of course you play a Team the quality of Michigan.;)

It really would be great to play another team like Michigan. It won't happen, and not because we wouldn't love to do it. Rumor has it Florida and LSU both want to write us a check not to play them. As far as luck goes, watch the game before you make an asinine comment like that. We got lucky, and so did Michigan. In all honesty Michigan was very lucky that the score was not worse. I also am dreading what our OOC schedule will look like. I really cannot wait for the JMU game but outside of that we won't get many quality games. We offered nearly everyone a game last year and were one of the very last teams to complete their schedules. I believe we were even offering home and homes offering to play the first game away. My guess is that UD would not take that offer. I would love for it to be wrong but I doubt it. I would very much like to see a home and home with NDSU.

So what have we learned? If you don't play in the Socon, CAA, Gateway, or Big Sky schedule some quality OOC games with top FCS teams.

[JohnStOnge]

The speed factor really reared its head when Florida took down Ohio State last year. It seems that the SEC is considered in most circles as the conference that has the market cornered on speed.

Kind of off topic but I think that's kind of a myth. I think Florida beat Ohio State because the Gators were more ready to play and had a better game plan. I looked at the last five NFL drafts. Florida had 28 players taken; three in the first round. Ohio State had 39 players taken, 10 in the first round. A team that doesn't have speed doesn't have those kinds of numbers taken in the NFL draft.

Last year Florida had 9 players taken and Ohio State 8. Each had two taken in the first round. At least according to one site of NFL draft prospects (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=719772 ), Ohio State has five of the top 100 draft prospects this season. Florida has one.

Again, nobody would be saying that if Ohio State didn't have some players that have good speed for their positions. Additionally, I saw an article the other day indicating that 13 Ohio State underclassmen are going to be filing paperwork to see where they'd go in the draft.

Thinking that Florida had way more speed than Ohio State because of wat happened in that one game is like thinking that Nebraska had way more speed than Florida because of what happened after the 1995 season. Sometimes everything just comes together and a real good team can have its head handed to it.

After the 2002 season everyone was saying Miami was way too fast for Ohio State. They obviously weren't. I just watched a replay yesterday and their defensive line got penetration and put pressure on Miami's QB all day. He'd only been sacked something like 8 games all season but got nailed 4 times and hit a bunch more times.

I guess since I mentioned that Miami game I'm obligated to mention that though the officials helped Ohio State in overtime the officials also helped Miami to get IN to overtime by failing to call obvious defensive holding then calling a pass an Ohio State guy caught for a first down incomplete on Ohio STate's last third down of regulation. If the officials don't screw Ohio State on that play the Buckeyes have first down, Miami has one timeout left, and there's only 2:18 on the clock instead of having a situation where they're having to punt and have Miami return it into field goal range.

Last year they played at Texas, a team made up of the top players from a State that's every bit as much a "speed" state as Florida, in Austin and crushed them. And they did it before Texas' quarterback started having his injury problems (that injury is probably the reason Boise State was playing OU instead of the Longhorns in the BCS bowl...remember, with their QB healthy Texas dominated the Sooners in 2006 ).

Since Ohio State's playing LSU I'll mention that the Tigers had 26 players drafted over the past five years, 7 in the first round. Like Ohio State, they have five players among the top 100 NFL draft prospects according to the opinion of the site linked above.

I haven't run the numbers myself but I also heard it said on TV at the beginning of bowl season that there are more players in the NFL from Ohio State than from any other program except USC.

Anyway, the point is, the idea that Ohio State doesn't have plenty of talent and speed is absurd. A team that doesn't have speed doesn't have as many players taken in the first round over the past five years as LSU and Florida put together...including having both its wide recievers taken in the first round last time. In recent years, that program has been absolutely loaded with NFL prospect caliber talent and I don't think this year is any different.

[JohnStOnge]

We got lucky, and so did Michigan. In all honesty Michigan was very lucky that the score was not worse.

I think that's kind of getting carried away. I watched replays of the game and it looked like, overall...when the whole game was considered...Michigan was able to move the ball better.

The stats are consistent with what I think I saw. Michigan had a pretty solid edge in the statistics. Not as much as one would've expected going in but pretty solid. The Wolverines averaged 6.2 per rush and even if you take out the 54 yard TD it was 4.9.

I think to say that Michigan was "very lucky" the score was not worse is a bit of a stretch.

[udchuck]

It really would be great to play another team like Michigan. It won't happen, and not because we wouldn't love to do it. Rumor has it Florida and LSU both want to write us a check not to play them. As far as luck goes, watch the game before you make an asinine comment like that. We got lucky, and so did Michigan. In all honesty Michigan was very lucky that the score was not worse. I also am dreading what our OOC schedule will look like. I really cannot wait for the JMU game but outside of that we won't get many quality games. We offered nearly everyone a game last year and were one of the very last teams to complete their schedules. I believe we were even offering home and homes offering to play the first game away. My guess is that UD would not take that offer. I would love for it to be wrong but I doubt it. I would very much like to see a home and home with NDSU.

So what have we learned? If you don't play in the Socon, CAA, Gateway, or Big Sky schedule some quality OOC games with top FCS teams.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx After about 10 solid minutes of laughter,I must give you credit for making me laugh the most of my life.---Now let me get this straight.xlolx xlolx Florida and LSU want to write App State a check so they will not have to play App State xlolx xlolx .
Speaking of asinine statements ,that is at the Top. And YES I did see the game.Mich. was flat as a new born baby.xlolx Got to go now, my sides hurt too much.

[james_lawfirm]

Corruption is rampant in the FCS playoff selection process. It is all about money. Dayton did not spend enough on football to buy a playoff bid. Apparently, the OVC did, the MEAC did and the PL did. If you choose not to see this, you are caught up in the corruption yourself. The corrupt powers that be would prefer to give five bids to a conference that has purchased the bids, while leaving a deserving Dayton at home. Winning the PFL should warrant a bid period. Oh, so you want to talk about conference rankings do you? The OVC was ranked about the same as the PFL and got two freakin teams in.... You pay your money and you buy your bid!!!!!!!!! The process is corrupt and driven by the almighty dollar. Same as FBS.

Keep your heads in the sand if it makes you feel better, but do not even think about hammering FBS.... I have heard that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.


I cannot disagree with you more. Please make an effort to understand the process before you criticize it with calls of "corruption." First, teams do not purchase bids. Teams bid on hosting the home games if they are selected in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks the NCAA should conduct the playoffs for free would have loved the now defunct socialist societies of eastern Europe. And yes, schools with higher attendances can bid more than schools with lower attendance averages. And, you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. There was a time when ASU drew less than 5,000 to its playoff games (I was there.) The ASU admin. has had to work pretty hard on improving that, and its work has paid off.

Actually, the selection process itself has very little to do with money. The committee has done a pretty good job of selecting the top 16 teams, year after year. Of course, the bubble teams will complain if they don't make it - hollering that they were "Woff-ed". Fair enough. But, when was the last time a team from a conference outside the SoCon, CAA, Gateway or Big Sky made a deep run into the playoffs? I cannot even think of any - Hampton of '05 is a good example. Although I did not agree this year with included 5 teams from the CAA, those five acquitted themselves well in the playoffs.

With all due respect to the PFL & the MEAC & the SWAC & the Big South all other conferences hollering that they deserve an auto-bid, first prove yourself by scheduling tough OOC games, win more than you lose, and then get back with us.

I'll even be more specific. App. State needs to fill its schedule next year on Aug. 31, Sept. 6, & Sept. 13. Have your AD call ours. It'll be your first step in the right direction. 'Course, it may not help your 7-win requirement.

[ERASU2113]

If ASU was "lucky" to beat Michigan....then any FCS team is "lucky" to beat a FBS team. Just because ASU went into Ann Arbor and beat the then-#5 team doesn't mean they couldn't do it again. Any given Saturday anything can happen. 9/1/07 is one of those days.

[james_lawfirm]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx After about 10 solid minutes of laughter,I must give you credit for making me laugh the most of my life.---Now let me get this straight.xlolx xlolx Florida and LSU want to write App State a check so they will not have to play App State xlolx xlolx .
Speaking of asinine statements ,that is at the Top. And YES I did see the game.Mich. was flat as a new born baby.xlolx Got to go now, my sides hurt too much.


Actually, Florida rescheduled ASU from 2008 to 2010. Not sure why - my guess is so they won't face Armanti. Not sure about LSU.

But I do know that UNC-Chapel Hill and Wake Forest have both refused to play App anytime soon.

I was at the Mich. game. They were not flat - they were just slow. Big difference.

[ERASU2113]

Actually, Florida rescheduled ASU from 2008 to 2010. Not sure why - my guess is so they won't face Armanti. Not sure about LSU.

But I do know that UNC-Chapel Hill and Wake Forest have both refused to play App anytime soon.

I was at the Mich. game. They were not flat - they were just slow. Big difference.

Rumor is that UNC was scheduled to play ASU for their first game. Apparently backed out before it was finalized and scheduled McNeese instead

[james_lawfirm]

Kind of off topic but I think that's kind of a myth. I think Florida beat Ohio State because the Gators were more ready to play and had a better game plan. I looked at the last five NFL drafts. Florida had 28 players taken; three in the first round. Ohio State had 39 players taken, 10 in the first round. A team that doesn't have speed doesn't have those kinds of numbers taken in the NFL draft.

...

Anyway, the point is, the idea that Ohio State doesn't have plenty of talent and speed is absurd. A team that doesn't have speed doesn't have as many players taken in the first round over the past five years as LSU and Florida put together...including having both its wide recievers taken in the first round last time. In recent years, that program has been absolutely loaded with NFL prospect caliber talent and I don't think this year is any different.


I think you are making a connection that does not deserve to be made. Speed and NFL draft picks are completely different factors in terms of the overall quality of a college football team. It seems to me that those coaches who discount the value of speed will soon have to hunt for other employment. They will be losing games to faster/quicker teams - and rationalizing it by saying that the other team had a better game plan and was more ready to play. I have been watching these bowl games this holiday season after watching App State's speed at all positions. I keep wanting to turn up the speed button and help some of these guys out. The Ariz. State - Texas game was in such slow motion, I just about could not stand it.

I have not watched Florida at all this year. Assuming they have speed equal to what they showed in the Ohio State game last year, Michigan is going to lose again. That is my prediction.

[udchuck]

Rumor is that UNC was scheduled to play ASU for their first game. Apparently backed out before it was finalized and scheduled McNeese instead

xlolx Rumor has it that ASU and the NFL Colts wanted to have practice game in that Bye week of the playoffs. But INDY pulled out.they didn't want to get beat. I understand a check is in the mail.xcoolx xwhistlex

[slostang]

Corruption is rampant in the FCS playoff selection process. It is all about money. Dayton did not spend enough on football to buy a playoff bid. Apparently, the OVC did, the MEAC did and the PL did. If you choose not to see this, you are caught up in the corruption yourself. The corrupt powers that be would prefer to give five bids to a conference that has purchased the bids, while leaving a deserving Dayton at home. Winning the PFL should warrant a bid period. Oh, so you want to talk about conference rankings do you? The OVC was ranked about the same as the PFL and got two freakin teams in.... You pay your money and you buy your bid!!!!!!!!! The process is corrupt and driven by the almighty dollar. Same as FBS.

Keep your heads in the sand if it makes you feel better, but do not even think about hammering FBS.... I have heard that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Instead of crying about the playoff selection process, get on the phone to your AD and get him to schedule the toughest OOC games he can get. By that I mean top teams from the SoCon, CAA, Gateway, Big Sky, Southland ... Notice I said top teams. You should take out your frustration on your AD, not the selection process.xeyebrowx

[mountaineertider]

While you criticize, please call Dayton's AD and tell him to schedule any team from a major conference. Whether it be ASU, Western Carolina, Montana, Northern Arizona...anyone, and tell him to drop y'all's NAIA game.

If Dayton can win that game, and get seven D-I wins, I might give them an ounce of sympathy if they don't make the playoffs.

ps: Cobb is the name you'll want to look for in the White Pages when you want to call Boone.

[JohnStOnge]

I've been trying to avoid saying this but I've got to say it again...I did watch the replay of App State and Michigan and I do not think App had an overall team speed advantage. I think they were faster at the QB position and probably their fastest wide receiver was faster than Michigan's fastest wide receiver. We'll find out more about that when the NFL times people.
But if someone was to say they were going to line up all of Michigan's starters position by comparable position against App State's starters and let them run 40 yard races I'd bet Michigan's players would win the majority of the races.

I used the list at http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=719772 above and I refer to it again. There are 6 Michigan players among this particular list of the top 100 NFL draft prospects. Both wide receivers are listed along with a linebacker, and a running back. Maybe the guy who put the list together is a little off but I can just about guarantee you that, barring injury, all of those guys are going to be drafted in the early rounds.

Nobody's going to be calling a college running back, wide receiver, or linebacker a top 100 NFL draft pick if they are slow for their position. And, frankly, the offensive lineman wouldn't be on the list either if he didn't have good feet.

I don't see any Appalacian State guys on the list.

Edwards is probably quicker than any starter in the Big 10 and that did give Michigan problems. He also was very efficient throwing the ball. But I do not think Appalachian State had more overall team speed than Michigan. We had this conversation early before I watched the replay and I watched the replay with an eye towards looking at that...how the linebackers, linemen, etc., on each side looked running. And I think you guys are focusing on certain positions without looking at the rest of the guys. And I don't think you noticed some of the plays where Michigan skill people made App defenders look really, really slow.

[ERASU2113]

Moore said it in the press conference after the last championship game.

They recruit guys for speed, not size. The guys that fit their program and will excel in it. A majority will not move on to the NFL.....half could play at a major school, but would have to walk on - be stuck at the bottom of the depth chart.

ASU beat Michigan because UM had no answer to the spread offense. ASU was a smaller team that was athletic and could make up for the size. Michigan was bigger, stronger, and faster. ASU knew the weaknesses to exploit....it's as simple as that.

[JohnStOnge]

Since I said the thing about Michigan skill people making App defenders look slow, take a look at the play about 45 seconds into this Youtube highlight set:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prlxc1qaaLY

I'm talking about the Michigan touchdown pass from about the 10 to #13. Look at the angle the App defender has. In fact, look at the two App defenders. Look at how easily the #13 beats them. Look at how slow they look.

[ERASU2113]

Since I said the thing about Michigan skill people making App defenders look slow, take a look at the play about 45 seconds into this Youtube highlight set:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prlxc1qaaLY

I'm talking about the Michigan touchdown pass from about the 10 to #13. Look at the angle the App defender has. In fact, look at the two App defenders. Look at how easily the #13 beats them. Look at how slow they look.

At the same time if you watch the two TD Dexter Jackson has....he made UM look slow too :D

[udchuck]

Moore said it in the press conference after the last championship game.



ASU beat Michigan because UM had no answer to the spread offense. ASU was a smaller team that was athletic and could make up for the size. Michigan was bigger, stronger, and faster. ASU knew the weaknesses to exploit....it's as simple as that.
xthumbsupx Now here is a man that knows what he's talking about.UM HAD NO ANSWER FOR THE SPREAD OFFENSE. Yes I agree 100 %xthumbsupx

[JohnStOnge]

* O-ver-ra-ted: McNeese State. Key injuries definitely played a factor, but to get smoked by four scores in a loss to Eastern Washington as the second seed is fairly damning. .

That kind of reaction is exactly why I am so disappointed in the magnitude of the egg McNeese laid. On one hand, I wrote before the playoffs started that I would not have made McNeese a seed. On the other hand, I think they were capable of far better than what they showed in that game...even given the losses of some very important players to injury.

But there's nothing a fan can do to defend what his team does when it puts up a stinker like that.

[JohnStOnge]

At the same time if you watch the two TD Dexter Jackson has....he made UM look slow too :D

Not really, especially considering that he's a conference 200 meter champion. There was at least one Michigan player...the guy that is farthest to the right and closest at the end...who was not losing ground to him. They couldn't catch him from behind but it wasn't a thing like them having a great angle and not being able to close. If any of those Michigan secondary guys shown on that play would've had the kind of angle the App State guy had on that TD by #13, they'd have gotten him.

And on that #13 play again...note that he didn't even have to really press to beat that angle. He loped.

[ERASU2113]

xthumbsupx Now here is a man that knows what he's talking about.UM HAD NO ANSWER FOR THE SPREAD OFFENSE. Yes I agree 100 %xthumbsupx

Just to clarify....Moore didn't say that. I did. My opinion after watching the game. :D xreadx xcoffeex xthumbsupx

[JohnStOnge]

I think you are making a connection that does not deserve to be made. Speed and NFL draft picks are completely different factors in terms of the overall quality of a college football team. It seems to me that those coaches who discount the value of speed will soon have to hunt for other employment. They will be losing games to faster/quicker teams - and rationalizing it by saying that the other team had a better game plan and was more ready to play. I have been watching these bowl games this holiday season after watching App State's speed at all positions. I keep wanting to turn up the speed button and help some of these guys out. The Ariz. State - Texas game was in such slow motion, I just about could not stand it.

I have not watched Florida at all this year. Assuming they have speed equal to what they showed in the Ohio State game last year, Michigan is going to lose again. That is my prediction.

With all due respect, I think you are misgauging relative team speeds. I really don't think App State has as much team speed as either Texas or Arizona State. Again, I think you guys are getting carried away.

And Big 10 coaches do not discount the value of speed. That's why teams like Ohio State and Michigan put so many players into the NFL.

[ERASU2113]

Not really, especially considering that he's a conference 200 meter champion. There was at least one Michigan player...the guy that is farthest to the right and closest at the end...who was not losing ground to him. They couldn't catch him from behind but it wasn't a thing like them having a great angle and not being able to close. If any of those Michigan secondary guys shown on that play would've had the kind of angle the App State guy had on that TD by #13, they'd have gotten him.

And on that #13 play again...note that he didn't even have to really press to beat that angle. He loped.

Yea I know, it was primarily hitting a guy in the open field when guys are out of position. Not to mention the 4.2ish speed Jackson has doesn't hurt :D.

As far as #13...you're right of course. You can even look at Hart's 50+ yard TD he had to put UM back up 32-31. He made Woazeah look silly, just by a quick move by his hips, while still moving pretty fast

[74AppState]

A good measuring stick---------Davidson dropped out of SoCon Football to join the Pioneer because they simply were not competetive in SoCon football. Period. Year after year---not competetive.

[james_lawfirm]

I've been trying to avoid saying this but I've got to say it again...I did watch the replay of App State and Michigan and I do not think App had an overall team speed advantage. I think they were faster at the QB position and probably their fastest wide receiver was faster than Michigan's fastest wide receiver. We'll find out more about that when the NFL times people.
But if someone was to say they were going to line up all of Michigan's starters position by comparable position against App State's starters and let them run 40 yard races I'd bet Michigan's players would win the majority of the races.

I used the list at http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=719772 above and I refer to it again. There are 6 Michigan players among this particular list of the top 100 NFL draft prospects. Both wide receivers are listed along with a linebacker, and a running back. Maybe the guy who put the list together is a little off but I can just about guarantee you that, barring injury, all of those guys are going to be drafted in the early rounds.

Nobody's going to be calling a college running back, wide receiver, or linebacker a top 100 NFL draft pick if they are slow for their position. And, frankly, the offensive lineman wouldn't be on the list either if he didn't have good feet.

I don't see any Appalacian State guys on the list.

Edwards is probably quicker than any starter in the Big 10 and that did give Michigan problems. He also was very efficient throwing the ball. But I do not think Appalachian State had more overall team speed than Michigan. We had this conversation early before I watched the replay and I watched the replay with an eye towards looking at that...how the linebackers, linemen, etc., on each side looked running. And I think you guys are focusing on certain positions without looking at the rest of the guys. And I don't think you noticed some of the plays where Michigan skill people made App defenders look really, really slow.


Michigan's Coach Lloyd Carr hisself said before the game that Appalachian was the fastest team he had ever seen.

I guess we must just agree to disagree about App's speed.

[UAalum72]

A good measuring stick---------Davidson dropped out of SoCon Football to join the Pioneer because they simply were not competetive in SoCon football. Period. Year after year---not competetive.
Davidson left the SoCon more than twenty years ago. The Pioneer wasn't formed until seven years after that. Are you really trying to evaluate Davidson's quality now by what happened before most of today's players were born?

[Touchdown Yosef]

I think that's kind of getting carried away. I watched replays of the game and it looked like, overall...when the whole game was considered...Michigan was able to move the ball better.

The stats are consistent with what I think I saw. Michigan had a pretty solid edge in the statistics. Not as much as one would've expected going in but pretty solid. The Wolverines averaged 6.2 per rush and even if you take out the 54 yard TD it was 4.9.

I think to say that Michigan was "very lucky" the score was not worse is a bit of a stretch.

In every football game there is usually luck that can be had for either team. As far as Michigan being lucky the score wasn't worse how bout a dropped TD pass, a missed field goal, and Corey Lynch cramping up on the five yard line. So lets say Michigan 32 App 48; or Michigan 32 App 41. Or App 48 Michigan 38. All very likely possibilities.

I really don't feel that Michigan moved the ball better overall. Yes please call me a Homer I make no apologies for it and I know what the stats say. But we were able to stop them and we had 2 interceptions in the second half that didn't end up hurting us. Of course they were able to run on us, everyone but Delaware and Richmond ran all over us. See Wofford and G. South. When we had the lead our offense got very conservative, classic Jerry Moore. When we had to move the ball we did. All in all Hart was a beast and ran all over our poor run defense, he will be a great NFL running back.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by udchuck View Post
After about 10 solid minutes of laughter,I must give you credit for making me laugh the most of my life.---Now let me get this straight. Florida and LSU want to write App State a check so they will not have to play App State .
Speaking of asinine statements ,that is at the Top. And YES I did see the game.Mich. was flat as a new born baby. Got to go now, my sides hurt too much.


Actually, Florida rescheduled ASU from 2008 to 2010. Not sure why - my guess is so they won't face Armanti. Not sure about LSU.

But I do know that UNC-Chapel Hill and Wake Forest have both refused to play App anytime soon.

I was at the Mich. game. They were not flat - they were just slow. Big difference.


Don't be surprised if it happens. Something along the lines of not wanting their shot at an NC ruined in the first week of the season. You think they are itching to play us? As stated on this thread no one is, we can't get games scheduled. Glad I could make you laugh, the info isn't made up. Get back to me when these games either don't happen or happen years down the road. Oh and UD chuck as stated before I'm sure we would be more than willing to play you all, would you be willing to play us?

[appstate38]

With all due respect, I think you are misgauging relative team speeds. I really don't think App State has as much team speed as either Texas or Arizona State. Again, I think you guys are getting carried away.

And Big 10 coaches do not discount the value of speed. That's why teams like Ohio State and Michigan put so many players into the NFL.

While you are fully entitled to your opinion on the matter, I thought I would point out after watching the selected youtube video again that you provided. First the play that you point to has an example on Michigan great speed is nothing more than a crossing route inside the 20 yard line against a guy who lost his starting position to a faster freshman. How you use that to gauge their speed is beyond me when you consider if UM was that much faster especially at the WR position then we should have seen more highlights to that effect but we didn't. Second the 1st TD by Jackson he left a guy who was on him but ended up having to dive at him to attempt the tackle. App was as fast if not faster than UM on that day.

Whether we can run with the Long Horns or the Sun Devils remains to be seen. But we wouldn't get beat because we were slow... That much is certain.

[The Moody1]

I think to say that Michigan was "very lucky" the score was not worse is a bit of a stretch.

I guess you missed our dropped touchdown pass and are the two badly thrown balls that were intercepted in the second half. We catch that TD and don't make the bad throws and we probably win by at least 10 points. I really doubt you watched this game.

[SeattleGriz]

All I know is, I was simply impressed at how many times App took back that game in the last couple of minutes. Michigan tried to win it, but App would not be denied.

[ASU88]

I guess you missed our dropped touchdown pass and are the two badly thrown balls that were intercepted in the second half. We catch that TD and don't make the bad throws and we probably win by at least 10 points. I really doubt you watched this game.
Not to mention Lynch being run down by a kicker on the final play, which would have been another 6 points had he not cramped up.

[JohnStOnge]

Michigan's Coach Lloyd Carr hisself said before the game that Appalachian was the fastest team he had ever seen.

I guess we must just agree to disagree about App's speed.

Yes. And if Carr really said that with all the teams Michigan has played over the years...like for instance USC last year, Texas the year before the Longhorns won the national title, USC the year before that when there was that controversy over the polls, Florida the year before that, etc...I think that is one of the most "roll my eyes" bits of coachspeak I've ever seen.

Appalachian State is a fast FCS team. But the Mountaineers, I think, would be average at best in terms of overall team speed in the context of the world of the BCS leagues.

[james_lawfirm]

Yes. And if Carr really said that with all the teams Michigan has played over the years...like for instance USC last year, Texas the year before the Longhorns won the national title, USC the year before that when there was that controversy over the polls, Florida the year before that, etc...I think that is one of the most "roll my eyes" bits of coachspeak I've ever seen.

Appalachian State is a fast FCS team. But the Mountaineers, I think, would be average at best in terms of overall team speed in the context of the world of the BCS leagues.


Coach speak, maybe. And yet, I heard him say it during his own TV show the week before Sept. 1, apparently in response to an interviewer's questioning. So, there. Phbthpbth.

[JohnStOnge]

Not to mention Lynch being run down by a kicker on the final play, which would have been another 6 points had he not cramped up.

I don't know if he cramped up or if so, when he did. But guys, Lynch is not a fast safety. It says at http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=25454 that he's basically a mid 4.6s guy in the 40. Frankly, having watched him play, I'm skeptical about that. He looks slower than that to me.

[JohnStOnge]

Coach speak, maybe. And yet, I heard him say it during his own TV show the week before Sept. 1, apparently in response to an interviewer's questioning. So, there. Phbthpbth.

Ok. I'll leave it to each to decide whether or not, given the kinds of teams Michigan has played in both the recent and long term past, they believe Appalachian State had the best overall team speed of any team the Wolverines have ever played.

And you could also ask Corey Lynch about how the Mountaineers compare to Michigan in terms of overall team speed. After the game he said, ""They have bigger players, faster players and stronger players." (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2007-09-02-appalachian-state_N.htm ).

Fair enough if you want to call it "player speak." But he said that just like Carr said what he said.

[JohnStOnge]

I guess you missed our dropped touchdown pass and are the two badly thrown balls that were intercepted in the second half. We catch that TD and don't make the bad throws and we probably win by at least 10 points. I really doubt you watched this game.

Yes, I watched the game. I saw and was aware of the dropped TD pass.

[89Hen]

The 2007 field was a complete joke. Five teams from one conference CLEARLY demonstrated the FBS like corruption that has permeated FCS. Dayton was clearly a playoff caliber team and yet had to sit home and watch the OVC teams, two of them lose in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to watch the vaunted MEAC champion get dismantled in the first round AGAIN. Dayton also had to sit home and watch Fordham participate in the playoffs. A team Dayton defeated at Fordham in 2007.

The 2007 championship was partially decided on the field. Until the FBS corruption is purged from the FCS playoff selection process, FCS will be only marginally better than FBS.

Follow the FBS corruption, follow the money that the NCAA covets, and the faults in the current process become very clear for anyone with courage to look the process square in the eye.

Lesson learned? Probably not for most here, and that my friends is sad indeed.
Dayton would have lost by 50+ to over half the field. They could have even provided the OVC and/or MEAC with a rare playoff win.

[JohnStOnge]

I guess you missed our dropped touchdown pass and are the two badly thrown balls that were intercepted in the second half. We catch that TD and don't make the bad throws and we probably win by at least 10 points. I really doubt you watched this game.

Yes, I watched the game. I saw and was aware of the dropped TD pass.

But instead of relying on memory I'll use some examples of things you can pick up by watching that highlight video I linked. Michigan dropped the snap on a two point conversion attempt. Also, they had a first and 10 at the App 20 but first had a five yard penalty then threw and interception to kill the drive.

They had the field goals blocked. If you're an App State fan you say, "great plays by App." If you're a Michigan fan you say, "No way that should happen."

I'm sure if I watched the game again and made notes of all the mistakes and missed opportunities each team made I could come up with plenty.

Notice I didn't say App was lucky either. It was a close game that could have gone either way. Both teams missed opportunties to score. Both teams missed opportunities to keep drives alive. App ended up with more points and it was a remarkable effort.

[JohnStOnge]

On the Florida/LSU playing App State thing:

I don't know about Florida, but I know LSU fans don't want to play FCS teams no matter what. It doesn't really have anything to do with worrying about losing. They think...mistakenly I think...that playing an FCS automatically hurts BCS rankings more than playing a FBS does. Never mind that they played a I-AA in 2003 and ended up in the BCS title game.

I've seen it reported before...a number of times...that LSU will not schedule a I-AA and now FCS unless it absolutely has to. And it has nothing to do about worrying about risk of loss. It has to do with selling tickets. It frustrates me that LSU fans would rather see LSU play...say...Louisiana Tech than a top FCS team. But that's the reality.

Another thing: What happened between App State and Michigan was not an instance of a FCS team beating a FBS with a realistic shot at a BCS championship. It may not have been a FCS beating a top 25 caliber team.

Anybody that's "known" me over the years on various message boards knows that I've been consistent in saying that where a team is ranked when you play them is not important. It's where they end up. Michigan was ranked as a "top 5" FBS going into the season but it is now clear that the Wolverines were way over rated.

It is a good FBS team. Clearly better than average. But Wolverines are going to finish either 9-4 or 8-5. If I had to bet, I'd bet it's going to be 8-5. It's very possible that, when it's all said and done, it's still going to be the case that no I-AA/FCS has ever beaten a I-A/FBS that finished in the top 25. If Michigan does finish in the FBS top 25...it's going to be close. It's a borderline top 25 FBS at best.

For sure, it's still going to be the case that no I-AA/FCS has ever beaten a team that otherwise would've had a shot at the I-A/FBS "national title."

I really don't think LSU and/or Florida are concerned about a loss to App State costing them a spot in the BCS championship game. If they change their scheduling, I don't think that's why they're doing it.

[FCSFAN]

Michigan was ranked as a "top 5" FBS going into the season but it is now clear that the Wolverines were way over rated.

it's still going to be the case that no I-AA/FCS has ever beaten a I-A/FBS that finished in the top 25.

it's still going to be the case that no I-AA/FCS has ever beaten a team that otherwise would've had a shot at the I-A/FBS "national title."Careful, your mealy mouth App envy is showing. Instead of thinking up new ways to downplay App, why don't you go watch your Sugar Daddy Diaper Bowl? Maybe it will have a team with a shot at your "I-A/FBS national title."

[McNeese75]

Rumor is that UNC was scheduled to play ASU for their first game. Apparently backed out before it was finalized and scheduled McNeese instead

Funny, I heard the same thing about LSU playing ASU so they did not have to schedule McNeesexlolx

[ERASU2113]

Lynch cramped up, no one came in for him. Playing against a team like Michigan in the first game of the season, and playing that much...I'd say he did cramp up.

This is off topic but sort of related to what Carr said prior to the Michigan game. In 2005, LSU radio announcers and some coaches said Richie Williams was the best/fastest QB they had seen in a long time, and the best that season. Now think of LSU played in '05.

It's really no big deal honestly. Everyone has their own opinion. A coach may say one thing that you don't agree with and so on. It just happens.

[ERASU2113]

Funny, I heard the same thing about LSU playing ASU so they did not have to schedule McNeesexlolx

Guess schools just want to dodge ASU and McNeese eh? xlolx xthumbsupx

[paward]

Getting back to the original post. I've learned that not matter who gets picked, there will always be teams that feel they were left off.

[grizband]

Getting back to the original post. I've learned that not matter who gets picked, there will always be teams that feel they were left off.
This statement couldn't be more true. If the playoffs are expanded to 18 or 24 teams, this will not quell the amount of complaints of teams who feel they were overlooked by the selection committee; someone will always be left out. However, I cannot imagine a scenario in which a possible champion will be left out of the field entirely.

[Grabholdofyosef]

Getting back to the original post. I've learned that not matter who gets picked, there will always be teams that feel they were left off.
Simple but excellent post.

Anytime there is a line or cutoff, the ones close to it will feel they deserve to be on the other side.

The only way to avoid that is to let every team in : )

[Col Hogan]

Simple but excellent post.

Anytime there is a line or cutoff, the ones close to it will feel they deserve to be on the other side.

The only way to avoid that is to let every team in : )

Isn't that what we call the regular season???:D

But you're right...cutoffs will always leave someone who FEELS they are deserving on the outside...

That why we don't give participation medals to everyone...

[JohnStOnge]

This statement couldn't be more true. If the playoffs are expanded to 18 or 24 teams, this will not quell the amount of complaints of teams who feel they were overlooked by the selection committee; someone will always be left out. However, I cannot imagine a scenario in which a possible champion will be left out of the field entirely.

I think your last statement hits the nail on the head. I think it's very unlikely that a team good enough to have a realistic shot at winning the tournament would be left out of a 16 team field. I once looked at that and the lowest ranked team...in a particular poll anyway...to ever win the national title since they went to a 16 team format was Youngstown State in 1991 when the NCAA did a poll and the Penguins went in ranked at #13.

I don't have the final regular season polls for recent years. But the only othe other team I can think of that may have been ranked outside the top 10 going in was Western Kentucky in 2002...and I don't think the Hilltoppers were ranked far outside of the top 10 if they weren't in it.

To me the historical outcomes make 16 look like a pretty good point to cut the tournament off in terms of capturing all the teams that would have a realistic shot to win four straight games against playoff-caliber opponents.

I'd still expand the field though just to stick to the principle of having as many teams as possible control their own destinies. I'd establish clear, concise criteria for being FCS and for being a FCS conference. Then, I'd say that every FCS conference champion gets an automatic bid. That way every team in a conference knowns going in that it controls its own destiny.

Then, if you get left out, the response is that YOU knew what you had to do to get in and make it a situation such that you didn't have to rely on a selection committee to get an at large berth.

Of course another thing I'd do is eliminate the selection committee as the means of selecting at large teams. I'd pick a power rating system assessed as being the best...or at least as good as any...and everybody would know going in that the top X teams according to that power rating system that didn't get at large bids would get in. That way there's no "after the fact" bias. Everybody would know ahead of time the kinds of things a team would have to do to maximize its power rating and it'd be up to each team to do it.

[paward]

The simplicity of it all is..........Win the games that you should win. The Division II games should be won, your conference games should be won. When this happens you eliminate committee guess work. With that said there is a valid arguement for Georgia Southern. But go back the missed fieldgoal. It it had been made they were in, no doubt. Heck we (Spiders) were 29 seconds from a seed. No way we should have given up that touchdown. But the reality of it we did and we had to hit the road. We controlled our destiny. Nature of the beast.

[Black and Gold Express]

And DetriotFlyer still somehow has avoided answering the numerous posts asking his team to set up a game with ASU. But yet still no end to his whining that his D-III caliber team is worthy of the playoffs...

We're still waiting for you to admit you'd like to see this game happen, Flyer. Judging by your posts though, even you know the truth that you'd be embarrased in that game before halftime even hit.

Better to talk a big game with no backup, eh?

[UAalum72]

I'd establish clear, concise criteria for being FCS and for being a FCS conference. Then, I'd say that every FCS conference champion gets an automatic bid.
There ARE clear, concise criteria. It's just the opinion of some on these boards that they aren't stringent enough.

An FCS conference must have a minimum of six eligible Division I members who have played together for at least two years. All Division I football-playing colleges must play at least half of their games against other Division I teams.

If you want a minimum number of scholarships offered, give me a clear, objective reason why you pick THAT number for a minimum. None of this spew about lower-equivalent schools 'detracting from the playoff experience' that the OVC put in its proposal to the NCAA.

If a minimum number of scholarships is to be used because you think it makes a team reasonably competitive, don't use a dollar minimum as an alternative; if the dollars don't get you as many players, then by your own reasoning a team won't be competitive no matter how much per player it spends.

And let's make the number offered by every school public so we know exactly who we're talking about here.

If you want a minimum average attendance of 10,000, you'd better reduce the playoff field to four so you can maintain your precious ratio of playoff teams / eligible teams - there are only about 35 teams at that level of attendance - and a quarter of THEM are in the Ivy and SWAC.

[PaladinFan]

I just want a little more respect for the SoCon in the playoffs. Heck, there were four SoCon teams that gave App a better game than Deleware.

[TheValleyRaider]

I'd still expand the field though just to stick to the principle of having as many teams as possible control their own destinies. I'd establish clear, concise criteria for being FCS and for being a FCS conference. Then, I'd say that every FCS conference champion gets an automatic bid. That way every team in a conference knowns going in that it controls its own destiny.

Then, if you get left out, the response is that YOU knew what you had to do to get in and make it a situation such that you didn't have to rely on a selection committee to get an at large berth.

Of course another thing I'd do is eliminate the selection committee as the means of selecting at large teams. I'd pick a power rating system assessed as being the best...or at least as good as any...and everybody would know going in that the top X teams according to that power rating system that didn't get at large bids would get in. That way there's no "after the fact" bias. Everybody would know ahead of time the kinds of things a team would have to do to maximize its power rating and it'd be up to each team to do it.

Sounds like a college hockey fan to me xnodx

[OL FU]

What we learned................If you want to be in the playoffs, win your conference or have at least 7 DI winsxnodx

[I-AA Fan]

With all the debate over conference supremacy, seedings, and playoff predictions back in November, I thought it would be interesting to see exactly how things shook out:

* They Got HOW MANY?: Much was made of the CAA's record five selections, and whether or not they deserved all five (or which team received the fifth invite), they acquitted themselves well. UNH took the top seed to the limit, JMU took the eventual champion to the limit, Richmond knocked off the SoCon co-champ, and Delaware swept the Gateway. The only possible underperformer was UMass, who I expected to have a stronger showing.

* O-ver-ra-ted: McNeese State. Key injuries definitely played a factor, but to get smoked by four scores in a loss to Eastern Washington as the second seed is fairly damning. Third-seeded Montana can be considered a disappointment, and maybe hopes were a little too high, but they weren't overrated. There's no shame in losing on a last-second field goal attempt to Wofford, the SoCon co-champ who knocked off eventual national champion Appalachian State earlier in the season. The Gateway and their pair of seeded representatives weren't overrated, per se, but they didn't perform up to expectations, either.

* Surprises Aplenty: Besides the two and three seeds falling in the first round as mentioned in the previous item, Northern Iowa was the consensus team to beat as the top seed with home-field throughout, but didn't even make it out of the quarterfinals. Delaware, the team that knocked the Panthers out of the playoffs, limped into the postseason with consecutive losses to Richmond and Villanova, then surprisingly ripped off three straight wins, two of them against seeded teams on the road. Eastern Washington was unheralded as the second representative out of the Big Sky, but they thrashed McNeese and came up just short against ASU.

* Fumbles from Heaven: There's no sense in rehashing the defining play of the postseason, but if you haven't already, it's time to cut Mickey Matthews some slack. The last two crucial decisions he made went against him, but his aggressive yet risky strategy was what kept the Dukes in the game to begin with. A punt or field goal attempt on any of the four previous fourth-downs they ended up converting would have completely changed the course of the game. They failed to convert the fifth, but that calculated risk still gave them the ball last and an opportunity to win, which brings us to yet another "Miracle on the Mountain" in Appalachian's favor. Running a play to kill some more clock and center the ball for the field goal attempt or punch it in for six wasn't a particularly dangerous or unorthodox call, it just happened to turn out badly. If you're going to fault him for anything, fault him for taking the ball out of Landers' hands, but don't blame him for having faith in his players and managing the game accordingly. His gameplan was masterful, well-executed, and gave his team their best possible chance of beating the Mountaineers. The only coach I saw this year that has the massive stones Mickey does is Les Miles.

* From Coronary to Coronation: This year's Mountaineer team wasn't the wrecking crew from last year. Nothing came easily - injuries, defensive woes, last-second heroics - for the Cardiac Apps. You'd need both hands to count the figurative heart attacks they gave their fans over the course of the season, but the literal heart the team showed in overcoming adversity was immeasurable. They finally got healthy down the stretch, they got a huge break when they needed it, and from there it was deja vu, all over again.

* Armanti Edwards is a Badass: Yes. Yes he is.

Let us know what else we learned, or you can even let me know that what I learned was lies.

Grasping a bit are we not? Give it up. No conference deserves 5 ...EVER. Not even 4. Your conferences team that made the final gave the worst showing against App State, of any team. Your best team (UMass) gave just as poor of a performance as UNI, if not worse considering the levels of first-round opposition. They lost to the #2 GFC club in SIU. Both of your teams that should not have been in the post-season lost in the first round; proving they should not have been there. App State cut through both of your best remaining teams like a hot knife through butter ...and calling ASU 'badasses' is not a reason, poor performance by the Hens and Spiders is the reason. ASU should have lost to both EWU and JMU The CAA did not even come close to demonstrating some hypothetical "worthiness". This was bad year for I-AA ball, a poor post-season, and a predictably-poor final.

[AshevilleApp2]

Grasping a bit are we not? Give it up. No conference deserves 5 ...EVER. Not even 4. Your conferences team that made the final gave the worst showing against App State, of any team. Your best team (UMass) gave just as poor of a performance as UNI, if not worse considering the levels of first-round opposition. They lost to the #2 GFC club in SIU. Both of your teams that should not have been in the post-season lost in the first round; proving they should not have been there. App State cut through both of your best remaining teams like a hot knife through butter ...and calling ASU 'badasses' is not a reason, poor performance by the Hens and Spiders is the reason. ASU should have lost to both EWU and JMU The CAA did not even come close to demonstrating some hypothetical "worthiness". This was bad year for I-AA ball, a poor post-season, and a predictably-poor final.

App should have lost to EWU? Not a chance. Take away special teams mistakes and the game was a blowout. And why was this a bad year for 1-AA ball?

[Touchdown Yosef]

Grasping a bit are we not? Give it up. No conference deserves 5 ...EVER. Not even 4. Your conferences team that made the final gave the worst showing against App State, of any team. Your best team (UMass) gave just as poor of a performance as UNI, if not worse considering the levels of first-round opposition. They lost to the #2 GFC club in SIU. Both of your teams that should not have been in the post-season lost in the first round; proving they should not have been there. App State cut through both of your best remaining teams like a hot knife through butter ...and calling ASU 'badasses' is not a reason, poor performance by the Hens and Spiders is the reason. ASU should have lost to both EWU and JMU The CAA did not even come close to demonstrating some hypothetical "worthiness". This was bad year for I-AA ball, a poor post-season, and a predictably-poor final.

What then would have been your playoff field and your seeds? How would you have made these playoffs better than they were? And of course if App State is not the champion in your bracket who then is the best team in FCS, EWU or JMU?

[bench]

Grasping a bit are we not? Give it up. No conference deserves 5 ...EVER. Not even 4. Your conferences team that made the final gave the worst showing against App State, of any team. Your best team (UMass) gave just as poor of a performance as UNI, if not worse considering the levels of first-round opposition. They lost to the #2 GFC club in SIU. Both of your teams that should not have been in the post-season lost in the first round; proving they should not have been there. App State cut through both of your best remaining teams like a hot knife through butter ...and calling ASU 'badasses' is not a reason, poor performance by the Hens and Spiders is the reason. ASU should have lost to both EWU and JMU The CAA did not even come close to demonstrating some hypothetical "worthiness". This was bad year for I-AA ball, a poor post-season, and a predictably-poor final.

Not my conference. I'm an App grad.

Wait, you're trying to tell me that both CAA teams that lost in the first round didn't belong because they got beat by better teams on last second plays, and I'm the one grasping at straws?

App shouldn't have lost to anyone, and what's more, they didn't.

[ASUMountaineer]

Grasping a bit are we not? Give it up. No conference deserves 5 ...EVER. Not even 4. Your conferences team that made the final gave the worst showing against App State, of any team. Your best team (UMass) gave just as poor of a performance as UNI, if not worse considering the levels of first-round opposition. They lost to the #2 GFC club in SIU. Both of your teams that should not have been in the post-season lost in the first round; proving they should not have been there. App State cut through both of your best remaining teams like a hot knife through butter ...and calling ASU 'badasses' is not a reason, poor performance by the Hens and Spiders is the reason. ASU should have lost to both EWU and JMU The CAA did not even come close to demonstrating some hypothetical "worthiness". This was bad year for I-AA ball, a poor post-season, and a predictably-poor final.

When the champion is decided on the field, it's a good year. No conference should ever get 4 in? Who would you have filled those spots with? Teams with only 7 wins some against D-II schools? Teams that lost to 2-9 Chattanooga (sorry GSU fans)? I am not defending the NCAA's decision to put 5 teams from the CAA in, but if you clearly have 4 (or 5) teams that are in the best 16 teams in the country, they should play. You can argue if the CAA teams truly were, but if they were, they should get their shot. It's ok to be bitter, but do you really think EKU or JMU should be champions? It's not a smart argument to argue JMU is better than Delaware because they played ASU closer. Under your argument ASU should be playing for the BCS National Championship.

ASU is clearly better than Michigan (ASU beat UM)
Michigan is clearly better than Illinois (UM beat Ill)
Illinois is clearly better than Ohio State (Ill beat OSU)

Even I would argue not.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

CAA - 5 teams - there is one reason and that is the non-round robin schedule used by the CAA (I understand a round-round is not feasible) UMass did not play Del, JMU, Rich in the regular season - If they had played there would be 3 more losses for someone - just about any combinations of those 3 losses would have knocked at least 2 teams out - maybe three --- Of course, that would only be relevant if the committee HAD NOT said up front that less than 6 wins WOULD ELIMINATE those teams --- There is the problem - the committee made that ruling instead of following the guidelines set forth thus playing right into the hands of the CAA ---

[TheValleyRaider]

Grasping a bit are we not?

Likewise, my friend


Both of your teams that should not have been in the post-season lost in the first round; proving they should not have been there.

You mean like that UNH team that was thisclose to knocking off #1-UNI and that JMU team that was thisclose to beating your beloved Mounties? xrolleyesx


App State cut through both of your best remaining teams like a hot knife through butter ...and calling ASU 'badasses' is not a reason, poor performance by the Hens and Spiders is the reason.

Fine, ASU isn't very good at all. You happy now? xoopsx


ASU should have lost to ... JMU.

Who is a full-fleged member of (you guessed it) the CAA xdohx


Give it up.

Ditto xcoffeex


Of course, that would only be relevant if the committee HAD NOT said up front that less than 6 wins WOULD ELIMINATE those teams --- There is the problem - the committee made that ruling instead of following the guidelines set forth thus playing right into the hands of the CAA ---

This is just getting ridiculous. Since the NCAA went to the 7-win rule for at-large bids, name me one team that's recieved an at-large with less than 6 D-I wins. Go ahead and try. Here, I'll help: the answer is none. It's never happened, and this pie-in-the-sky idea that somehow this was going to be the year it would, especially for a GSU team that lsot to 2-9 Chattanooga and 2-10 Colorado State was going to be the team that broke in because of it is just absurd. Save yourself some sanity (and tinfoil) over this non-issue. You've all cried your river, now build a bridge and get over it.

[udchuck]

While you criticize, please call Dayton's AD and tell him to schedule any team from a major conference. Whether it be ASU, Western Carolina, Montana, Northern Arizona...anyone, and tell him to drop y'all's NAIA game.

If Dayton can win that game, and get seven D-I wins, I might give them an ounce of sympathy if they don't make the playoffs.

ps: Cobb is the name you'll want to look for in the White Pages when you want to call Boone.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Touchdown Yosef]

xxxxxxxxxx

wow, i really didn't think it was that bad considering some of what you have been slinging. But just in case, http://www.whitepages.com/white-pages/Boone-NC/

[udchuck]

wow, i really didn't think it was that bad considering some of what you have been slinging. But just in case, http://www.whitepages.com/white-pages/Boone-NC/

Another one
Stop and think about it, Your team got lucky,beat Mich.looking ahead. BIG upset. Put ASU on the news. Before that game no one ever heard of ASU other than the people in the mountains.
Now all of a sudden you're world beaters,You will take on LSU, ( I forgot,LSU is afraid of you and sent a check,not to playxlolx ).xcoffeex

[Touchdown Yosef]

Another one
Stop and think about it, Your team got lucky,beat Mich.looking ahead. BIG upset. Put ASU on the news. Before that game no one ever heard of ASU other than the people in the mountains.
Now all of a sudden you're world beaters,You will take on LSU, ( I forgot,LSU is afraid of you and sent a check,not to playxlolx ).xcoffeex

Wow, this has become borderline smack. Congrats on another educated post. Looking back to the the first time we played LSU we were down 14-0 going into the 4th quarter and we pulled our starters before they did. We also had a missed FG and dropped TD pass, on seperate drives. Go look at some of the post game messages for that game.

When you get a free minute check this out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7kMG4yijVY

right about 1:12

[Touchdown Yosef]

As far as playing LSU or any FBS team with a shot at a NC, it is more of a risk reward issue. The risk of getting beat by a very good and dangerous FCS team does not outweigh the reward of beating them. Should a ranked FBS team handle an FCS team? Of course, but it doesn't mean that a good FCS team can't compete and put itself in a position to win a game. I personally don't think it makes sense for a major FBS team to play App State right now. I would love to keep getting those paychecks and oppertunities but the reality is we probably won't see many more games like that, although we have heard rumors. I do think it makes sense for a smaller FBS team to schedule us simply because the publicity of being the next FBS team to play the "giant killers" would be huge.

[paward]

Again I say we are off the subject. This is not a thread to boost how great the Mountaineers are. They won the NC and it speaks for itself. We all know they beat Michigan. One more thing I have learned in the playoffs...........The CAA did get five teams in. They did deserve it. SoCon is still the conference to dethrone.

[AppStsGr8]

What I've learned -
- FCS playoff system is entirely superior to FBS bowl system. Sure, some teams will argue they should've been in and others will play like they should've been out. The selection committee, no doubt, has strong reasons for the selection of each team.
-If we played with press clippings, App St would not have been this year's champion. That's why the game is played on the field with whatever team members are able to play on that day.
-You can argue all you want that "if JimBobBubba had been healthy, then ..."; "If BillyEd hadn't fumbled on their 2 yard line, then ..."; "If BobbyDan hadn't blocked that field goal, then ..."; "If we hadn't had such horrible refs, then ..." The bottom line remains that two teams show up at game time and the players on the field do what they can do with what they've got and the instructions they're given, and the one with the most points when no time remains is the winner. There is no requirement that the winner win by a certain number of points or that the winner get straight 10's (even from the Russian judge) for play execution.
- Fans can make a huge difference at home or away. Every team has some great fans and some lousy ones. Odds are you'll see some of both at every game.
- Once the playoffs start, everyone is 0-0-0 and playing for keeps.
- I can't think of an FCS team I wouldn't pull for in a contest against an FBS team.

[asu7]

What I've learned -
- FCS playoff system is entirely superior to FBS bowl system. Sure, some teams will argue they should've been in and others will play like they should've been out. The selection committee, no doubt, has strong reasons for the selection of each team.
-If we played with press clippings, App St would not have been this year's champion. That's why the game is played on the field with whatever team members are able to play on that day.
-You can argue all you want that "if JimBobBubba had been healthy, then ..."; "If BillyEd hadn't fumbled on their 2 yard line, then ..."; "If BobbyDan hadn't blocked that field goal, then ..."; "If we hadn't had such horrible refs, then ..." The bottom line remains that two teams show up at game time and the players on the field do what they can do with what they've got and the instructions they're given, and the one with the most points when no time remains is the winner. There is no requirement that the winner win by a certain number of points or that the winner get straight 10's (even from the Russian judge) for play execution.
- Fans can make a huge difference at home or away. Every team has some great fans and some lousy ones. Odds are you'll see some of both at every game.
- Once the playoffs start, everyone is 0-0-0 and playing for keeps.
- I can't think of an FCS team I wouldn't pull for in a contest against an FBS team.

AMEN!!!!xbowx xnodx

[hapapp]

As far as playing LSU or any FBS team with a shot at a NC, it is more of a risk reward issue. The risk of getting beat by a very good and dangerous FCS team does not outweigh the reward of beating them. Should a ranked FBS team handle an FCS team? Of course, but it doesn't mean that a good FCS team can't compete and put itself in a position to win a game. I personally don't think it makes sense for a major FBS team to play App State right now. I would love to keep getting those paychecks and oppertunities but the reality is we probably won't see many more games like that, although we have heard rumors. I do think it makes sense for a smaller FBS team to schedule us simply because the publicity of being the next FBS team to play the "giant killers" would be huge.

As I recall, the reason LSU dropped us this year had nothing to do with their being afraid of losing to us but rather it was an ESPN tv situation. They changed their schedule to accommodate TV.

I certainly think a lot of FBS/BCS teams won't schedule good FCS teams because they have nothing to gain and much to lose. I think Michigan demonstrated that this year. I dare say after some of the FCS wins this year, no FBS/BCS teams will take their FCS opponent lightly.

I think one thing ASU fans need to avoid is developing the notion that we can knock off a top FBS/BCS every time we play them. Remember, that was our first FBS/BCS win in a while.

[JohnStOnge]

I just want a little more respect for the SoCon in the playoffs. Heck, there were four SoCon teams that gave App a better game than Deleware.

We all know how those things can go though. I'm painfully aware of it since McNeese blew out Portland State then Portland State beat Eastern Washington. Eastern Washington also struggled with Northern Colorado and Sacramento State. I've got to believe McNeese was better than either of those teams. The few Portland State fans I talked to on line thought, naturally enough, that McNeese was better. But Eastern Washington blew McNeese out.

In the case of Delaware; the Blue Hens beat JMU. JMU played App State very tough and in fact I'd bet people around that program are smarting over losing a game they think they should've won against the eventual national champion.

Another one: Wofford beat Appalachian State. Richmond had a pretty solid win over Wofford. Then Appalachian State handled Richmond.

Ohio State got completely blown out by Florida last year. South Carolina was a blocked field goal from beating the Gators. Do you think South Carolina was better than Ohio State? I sure don't. You're talking about a team (Ohio State) that had eight players taken in last year's NFL draft and probably a similar number...maybe more... who weren't ready for the draft then but will be taken this year. Probably somewhere close to 20 future NFL draft picks getting playing time. Two were taken in the first round last year and they'll probably have at least one taken in the first round this time. But on that day, all that talent got whacked.

You just never know what's going to happen. I wouldn't say comparing scores is of no value whatsoever. The power rating systems that compare all scores in a comprehensive way do pretty well at predicting winners overall. But there's still a whole lot of uncertainty.

[89Hen]

CAA - 5 teams - there is one reason and that is the non-round robin schedule used by the CAA (I understand a round-round is not feasible) UMass did not play Del, JMU, Rich in the regular season - If they had played there would be 3 more losses for someone - just about any combinations of those 3 losses would have knocked at least 2 teams out - maybe three --- Of course, that would only be relevant if the committee HAD NOT said up front that less than 6 wins WOULD ELIMINATE those teams --- There is the problem - the committee made that ruling instead of following the guidelines set forth thus playing right into the hands of the CAA ---
What do you suggest? The CAA has 12 teams. No other conference has to play 11 conference games.

[Homegrown Hillbilly]

Another one
Stop and think about it, Your team got lucky,beat Mich.looking ahead. BIG upset. Put ASU on the news. Before that game no one ever heard of ASU other than the people in the mountains.
Now all of a sudden you're world beaters,You will take on LSU, ( I forgot,LSU is afraid of you and sent a check,not to playxlolx ).xcoffeex

I'll be honest. I have been sitting here for about 15 minutes trying to decide how to respond without getting hammered by the mod.

I don't post that much, but I do read nearly every post on every thread. I enjoy reading educated and fact based debate, and am very disappointed when I sign on and read derelict and insulting posts like this.

My Alma Mater is a fine university that happens to have a top shelf football team, and I will have words with anyone who says otherwise. Appalachian State has always been well known, and has had a lofty reputation in the south east. Our university has been fortunate enough to receive great publicity through our success on the football field. Interest and applications are at an all time high which directly translates to higher admission standards and better academics. Even before the "3 Peat", when I was accepted to ASU in 2000, it was tough to get in. I had personal friends from my high school class that attended NC State and East Carolina (both fine schools), because they were denied admission to ASU.

Do us all a favor and don't insult our school. Especially one with alumni that are as passionate as our's.

Lets face the facts, Chuck. Each and every day of your life, you wake up and wish that your team and school (a fine institution I'm sure) was walking in the same shoes and enjoying the same success as my beloved Alma Mater in the hills, THE APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY. xtwocentsx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

What do you suggest? The CAA has 12 teams. No other conference has to play 11 conference games.

I suggest it was a quirk in scheduling that allowed 5 CAA teams to get it - not saying they didn't deserve 5, just that if UMass had played the other 3 this season there would be 3 more losses on someone record - I truly understand there is no way to have a true round-robin in the CAA, I really do! - I just think it was one of those years where an unbalanced schedule aided many teams, that's all - My real problem continues to be teams given too much credit for playing weak schedules - this won't happen in the CAA or the SoCon because of the quality of teams within the conference ---

[udchuck]

I'll be honest. I have been sitting here for about 15 minutes trying to decide how to respond without getting hammered by the mod.

I don't post that much, but I do read nearly every post on every thread. I enjoy reading educated and fact based debate, and am very disappointed when I sign on and read derelict and insulting posts like this.

My Alma Mater is a fine university that happens to have a top shelf football team, and I will have words with anyone who says otherwise. Appalachian State has always been well known, and has had a lofty reputation in the south east. Our university has been fortunate enough to receive great publicity through our success on the football field. Interest and applications are at an all time high which directly translates to higher admission standards and better academics. Even before the "3 Peat", when I was accepted to ASU in 2000, it was tough to get in. I had personal friends from my high school class that attended NC State and East Carolina (both fine schools), because they were denied admission to ASU.

Do us all a favor and don't insult our school. Especially one with alumni that are as passionate as our's.

Lets face the facts, Chuck. Each and every day of your life, you wake up and wish that your team and school (a fine institution I'm sure) was walking in the same shoes and enjoying the same success as my beloved Alma Mater in the hills, THE APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY. xtwocentsx

Sir, You are absolutely right,the Post was uncalled for. I must have had Brain freeze that day of the post.I do apologize and I hope you and the Good people at AppState forgive me.Good luck in the Future and have a Super,and prosperous New Year----Chuckxpeacex

[citdog]

I'll be honest. I have been sitting here for about 15 minutes trying to decide how to respond without getting hammered by the mod.

I don't post that much, but I do read nearly every post on every thread. I enjoy reading educated and fact based debate, and am very disappointed when I sign on and read derelict and insulting posts like this.

My Alma Mater is a fine university that happens to have a top shelf football team, and I will have words with anyone who says otherwise. Appalachian State has always been well known, and has had a lofty reputation in the south east. Our university has been fortunate enough to receive great publicity through our success on the football field. Interest and applications are at an all time high which directly translates to higher admission standards and better academics. Even before the "3 Peat", when I was accepted to ASU in 2000, it was tough to get in. I had personal friends from my high school class that attended NC State and East Carolina (both fine schools), because they were denied admission to ASU.

Do us all a favor and don't insult our school. Especially one with alumni that are as passionate as our's.

Lets face the facts, Chuck. Each and every day of your life, you wake up and wish that your team and school (a fine institution I'm sure) was walking in the same shoes and enjoying the same success as my beloved Alma Mater in the hills, THE APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY. xtwocentsx


So ASU is "Harvard in the Ahole of America" xlolx xlolx

ASU until about 1990 was a freaking diploma mill. Good academic schools left the SoCon when you were admitted because your admission requirements were a pulse and some money.

I never once wished The Citadel would be lumped together with App State in anything.

[The Moody1]

I never once wished The Citadel would be lumped together with App State in anything.


I feel the same way about tha' citadel.

[proasu89]

So ASU is "Harvard in the Ahole of America" xlolx xlolx

ASU until about 1990 was a freaking diploma mill. Good academic schools left the SoCon when you were admitted because your admission requirements were a pulse and some money.

I never once wished The Citadel would be lumped together with App State in anything.



Dayum, so you're saying that I could have bought my diploma in 1989. Sure wished I had known that 19 years ago.xlolx

[walliver]

I think that what we should have learned form the 2007 play-offs is that some years there are more than 8 deserving at-large teams, some years there are less than eight. In 2007 the CAA shouldn't have getten five bids and the OVC shouldn't have gotten two, IMHO, but, there weren't any other playoff-"eligible" and playoff-"worthy" teams out there. Personally, I think a win over a good D-II team should count more than a win over a bad non-scholarship D-I. Teams have lost D-II games and gone on to do very well in the play-offs. Georgia Southern probably should have gotten in before a fifth CAA team, but, guidelines are guidelines, and GSU knew about them before their 2007 schedule was made.

I think the NCAA should adopt an FBS type rule allowing FCS teams to count one D-II win as long as certain restrictions are met (something similar to FCS "counters" toward FBS bowl eligibility).

[DetroitFlyer]

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1univmas_s_brief.php

According to our friends at US News and World Reports, App State is ranked slightly below the Citadel. Both are considered Tier 1, Masters Universities in the South. App is in the selective catagory for admissions as is the Citadel....

Both appear to be good southern schools. Neither can hold a candle to Dayton academically, however....:D

[appstate38]

I never once wished The Citadel would be lumped together with App State in anything.

So I guess that includes winning National Championships!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx

[citdog]

So I guess that includes winning National Championships!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx


xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx


TOOK YOU AN HOUR TO COME UP WITH THAT DIDN'T IT SCHLEPROCK!

[appstate38]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx


TOOK YOU AN HOUR TO COME UP WITH THAT DIDN'T IT SCLEPROCK!

Just got online actually but thanks for the complement....


BTW I am still waiting to see the pics of you in an ASU t-shirt from the playoff game that you attended this year..... What gives????

[citdog]

Just got online actually but thanks for the complement....


BTW I am still waiting to see the pics of you in an ASU t-shirt from the playoff game that you attended this year..... What gives????


GONNA BE WAITING FOR A LONG TIME TO SEE THAT. IT NEVER HAPPENED. I DID HOWEVER CHEER FOR YOSEF AT THE NC GAME.

[appfan2008]

thank you for that citdog

[Homegrown Hillbilly]

So ASU is "Harvard in the Ahole of America" xlolx xlolx

ASU until about 1990 was a freaking diploma mill. Good academic schools left the SoCon when you were admitted because your admission requirements were a pulse and some money.

I never once wished The Citadel would be lumped together with App State in anything.

I never said ASU was the best school in the country. I think so, but that is my oppinion (as well as the oppinion of many others xthumbsupx ). My whole point was that I was mildly insulted by Chucky's comment that before the Michigan victory, nobody had ever heard of our podunk university.

As far as your Ahole of America remark; GET REAL. Chucktown is a fine city in which I have enjoyed many good times. But, you can keep your pine trees, swamps, water moccasins, 5 lb. mosquitoes, 95 degrees, 200%humidity, ETC. I'll take my mountains on a cool October Saturday with 28,000 of my best friends and route my Mounties on to another victory. xhurrayx

[citdog]

I never said ASU was the best school in the country. I think so, but that is my oppinion (as well as the oppinion of many others xthumbsupx ). My whole point was that I was mildly insulted by Chucky's comment that before the Michigan victory, nobody had ever heard of our podunk university.

As far as your Ahole of America remark; GET REAL. Chucktown is a fine city in which I have enjoyed many good times. But, you can keep your pine trees, swamps, water moccasins, 5 lb. mosquitoes, 95 degrees, 200%humidity, ETC.




I'll take my mountains on a cool October Saturday with 28,000 of my best friends [B[/B]and route my Mounties on to another victory. xhurrayx



YOU MOUNTAIN FOLK HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A QUEER LOT! YOU ACTUALLY PREFER THE BACKWOODS! STRANGE!

[appstate38]

Glad to see Citdog is starting off the new year right where he left off....

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

I agree, the only thing is that he does not have the horses yet to run past people yet... It may take 2-3 years to get the athletes necessary to do it.

Well, for one game at least, the BIG 10 proved that big, strong athletes can compete with the SEC thoroughbreds. A certain Heisman trophy- winning QB was made to look just like the good, not great, sophomore in college that he is. Take away his TE-like running skills like Michigan managed to do and put some pressure on him with the DL and blitzes and he is a pretty average signal caller. Give me Armanti Edwards running that Gator offense and I would have competed for the national championship this year instead of suffering 4 losses.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Dayum, so you're saying that I could have bought my diploma in 1989. Sure wished I had known that 19 years ago.xlolx

Holy Smokes! I thought Mike Vick proved to the nation that dog fighting is illegal, ....xsmiley_wix

Even ZooMass and UNH don't go after each other like that...

[AppStsGr8]

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1univmas_s_brief.php

According to our friends at US News and World Reports, App State is ranked slightly below the Citadel. Both are considered Tier 1, Masters Universities in the South. App is in the selective catagory for admissions as is the Citadel....

Both appear to be good southern schools. Neither can hold a candle to Dayton academically, however....:D

Except that Appalachian has the highest pass rate in the country (even if you throw in Dayton and other Harvard caliber schools) on the CPA exam. Not a CPA? Never taken the exam? Give it a try. xsmiley_wix

[Touchdown Yosef]

YOU MOUNTAIN FOLK HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A QUEER LOT! YOU ACTUALLY PREFER THE BACKWOODS! STRANGE!

Yea if I could do my job from the mountains and have the same opportunity for advancement I'd move back in a heartbeat. Wouldn't want too many people to feel that way though, might start getting even more crowded up there.

[D1scout]

Despite what people on this board say the CAA in no way deserved 5 bids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it did!:)

[Jerbearasu]

You can put 15 CAA teams in the playoff field but year after year the SoCon has proven that it will have the last team standing...

[GannonFan]

You can put 15 CAA teams in the playoff field but year after year the SoCon has proven that it will have the last team standing...

Yes, with the exceptions over the past 10 years of 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004. So yeah, in the past 10 years that's been true half the time. Bravo. :)

[Saint3333]

Yes, with the exceptions over the past 10 years of 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004. So yeah, in the past 10 years that's been true half the time. Bravo. :)

One conference (with only 8-9 members) makes up 1/2 of the past ten championships that IS pretty impressive.xnodx

[Monarch History]

Yes, with the exceptions over the past 10 years of 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004. So yeah, in the past 10 years that's been true half the time. Bravo. :)

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Jerbearasu]

Joke all you want but the championship has been won a total of 12 times by a team from the SoCon (I think that is double any other conference). Four different SoCon teams have won the event (3 different teams have won it multiple times). Twenty-one times a SoCon team has been in the championship game (5 different teams). And I believe every team has at least been to the quarterfinals sans Chatty and Elon... This from a conference with 8-9 teams in it.

[D1scout]

Joke all you want but the championship has been won a total of 12 times by a team from the SoCon (I think that is double any other conference). Four different SoCon teams have won the event (3 different teams have won it multiple times). Twenty-one times a SoCon team has been in the championship game (5 different teams). And I believe every team has at least been to the quarterfinals sans Chatty and Elon... This from a conference with 8-9 teams in it.

You're right about the strength of the SoCon especially with the size factored in and the number of different teams earning the title. But, things can and do change over time and I believe the CAA and the Gateway conferences, team for team, would more than hold their own in conference matchups with the SoCon. Incidently, more of which I would love to see as OOC oponents. Let's make the FCS more exciting with more App State verses James Madison type of matches. Next year, Delaware will be playing Richmond, UMass, and James Madison as well UMass be playing all three. Now that's what I call exciting matchups. I can't wait to see top programs like NDSU, SDSU, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, and Youngstown lock horns in the regular season as well. I think 2008 is going to be a banner year for the FCS internally.:)

[Umass74]

You're right about the strength of the SoCon especially with the size factored in and the number of different teams earning the title. But, things can and do change over time and I believe the CAA and the Gateway conferences, team for team, would more than hold their own in conference matchups with the SoCon. Incidently, more of which I would love to see as OOC oponents. Let's make the FCS more exciting with more App State verses James Madison type of matches. Next year, Delaware will be playing Richmond, UMass, and James Madison as well UMass be playing all three. Now that's what I call exciting matchups. I can't wait to see top programs like NDSU, SDSU, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, and Youngstown lock horns in the regular season as well. I think 2008 is going to be a banner year for the FCS internally

How about this string for UMass?

09/13 @ JMU
09/20 @ Texas Tech
10/04 Delaware
10/11 @ Northeastern
10/18 Richmond

And we still have to play New Hampshire. xrotatehx

[Big Al]

To take a slightly different tack:

Since the members of the PFL are required to play in FCS by the NCAA, the NCAA should grant their conference champ a berth in the playoffs.

Period. End of story.

And we should still hammer on Dayton for their weak schedule. Just like Montana.

I think any conference recognized by the NCAA with at least 8 teams should automatically get a berth if they want it, which everyone but the Ivys and the Southland do.

[TheValleyRaider]

To take a slightly different tack:

Since the members of the PFL are required to play in FCS by the NCAA, the NCAA should grant their conference champ a berth in the playoffs.

Period. End of story.

And we should still hammer on Dayton for their weak schedule. Just like Montana.

I think any conference recognized by the NCAA with at least 8 teams should automatically get a berth if they want it, which everyone but the Ivys and the Southland do.

Nice idea, but the PFL would still have to ask for an autobid first

NCAA minimum for an autobid is 6 teams together for 2 years. The only conference that has that, and has asked for an autobid without recieving one is the NEC

The NCAA would also have to expand the playoff field, as they require that at least half the field be open to at-larges

Oh, and it's the SWAC, not the Southland, that lacks an autobid

I do agree that I'd like to see all conferences that apply get autobids though. Welcome aboard Big Al xthumbsupx

[YoUDeeMan]

But, when was the last time a team from a conference outside the SoCon, CAA, Gateway or Big Sky made a deep run into the playoffs? I cannot even think of any - Hampton of '05 is a good example.

Wow, you'd have to go aaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the way back to....uhhh...Colgate being in Chatty in......2003. xnodx Four years. Whew! xwhistlex

xpeacex

[Big Al]

Ah, the SWAC. Too many "South" conferences for me to keep track of.

Why does half the field need to be open? I don't get that. Right now, there are 15 FCS conferences. Two don't participate in the playoffs by choice (Ivy & SWAC) and three that are too small to qualify (Big, South, MAAC & Great West). That would still leave 6 at-large spots in a playoff.

I think that is more than fair. Of course, I'm just one guy with an opinion and we all know what opinions are good for...

[danefan]

Ah, the SWAC. Too many "South" conferences for me to keep track of.

Why does half the field need to be open? I don't get that. Right now, there are 15 FCS conferences. Two don't participate in the playoffs by choice (Ivy & SWAC) and three that are too small to qualify (Big, South, MAAC & Great West). That would still leave 6 at-large spots in a playoff.

I think that is more than fair. Of course, I'm just one guy with an opinion and we all know what opinions are good for...

Half the field needs to be open because the NCAA mandates it in all sports where conferences receive auto-bids.

[D1scout]

Nice idea, but the PFL would still have to ask for an autobid first

NCAA minimum for an autobid is 6 teams together for 2 years. The only conference that has that, and has asked for an autobid without recieving one is the NEC

The NCAA would also have to expand the playoff field, as they require that at least half the field be open to at-larges

Oh, and it's the SWAC, not the Southland, that lacks an autobid

I do agree that I'd like to see all conferences that apply get autobids though. Welcome aboard Big Al xthumbsupx

According to this (I'd like to see all conferences that apply get autobids though), then any six "weak-sisters-of-the-poor" who want to form a FCS conference would get an automatic bid to play for the Championship in two years!

[UAalum72]

According to this (I'd like to see all conferences that apply get autobids though), then any six "weak-sisters-of-the-poor" who want to form a FCS conference would get an automatic bid to play for the Championship in two years!
As is true in ALL other NCAA sports (except possibly basketball, which may have a longer waiting period). Of course if too many weak sisters pulled out of existing conferences, those might fall below the six-team minimum.

Further reading of NCAA proposals tells me that no new single-sport or multisport conferences may apply for Division I status under the current four-year moratorium. Not sure if this applies to a new football league formed under the umbrella of an existing D-I conference.
https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBi.LSDBi_LP_Search.D1_DisplayProposal?p_ID=2181&p_HeadFoot=1&p_CallCount=1&p_BylawTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDuplic ated&p_IntentTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDupli cated&p_RationaleTerms=ThisIsADummyPhraseThatWillNotBeDu plicated