Odds of schools moving in/out of FCS

[aztecjim]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State
UT-San Antonio

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
West Gorgia
North Alabama
Indiana PA

[McTailGator]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA


As much as I would like to see UT-A bring back their FB program, it will not happen under the current AD and President who just squandered a large student assessment by dangling FB out as a carrot, but then switching and spending all the money on a Basketball Arena and Conference Center.

[Grizalltheway]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA

Err, why would a team that's a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Sky consider moving to FBS? xconfusedx

[TexasTerror]

USA adding football is a done deal...they will start in FCS before moving to the Sun Belt...

Lamar adding football is all pending a student vote in January. If that passes, it'll be clear sailing from there...

[ERASU2113]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA

Honestly, it would most likely after 2011. Granted peop;le want it to happen now. But with KBS getting expanded, and the moratorium (sp?) putting everything on hold. It will take longer than many would like. Moore wants us to stay in the FCS for now. I'd say there are a lot of factors that need to be in place before ASU considers a jump.

[FCS Preview]

Err, why would a team that's a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Sky consider moving to FBS? xconfusedx

Ask SUNY Buffalo...

[Cocky]

North Alabama is studing the move to FCS.

[Cocky]

Forgot to add West Georgia is looking at FCS too.

[Grizalltheway]

Ask SUNY Buffalo...

Prime example of why Suc St. shouldn't. xnodx

[Col Hogan]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass Pre-2010 0% Post-2010 - 25%
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA

You didn't give a time frame, so two answers....

[DFW HOYA]

No private schools on this list.

[grizband]

Seattle U. is reportedly moving up to DI; any chance they might add football?

[DFW HOYA]

Seattle U. is reportedly moving up to DI; any chance they might add football?

Almsot none. Seattle has no conference affiliation lined up (the West Coast declined their bid, despite the natural fit).

[Tealblood]

this is pointless without a timeframe

[Tealblood]

that being said if you say where in 10 years CCU will be studying hard if not moved
i would think that some sort of group based out of the following ga south, Appy, western Carolina, maybe a SC state, and some of the other big publics and a few privates with financing in order forming a new conference with decent travel--very few flights and the ability to continue and develop rivalries.

[slycat]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State - 50% the school has approved to back moving up. now its up to financial support, finding a conference, getting ncaa approval.
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA

utsa is also adding football.

[Casey_Orourke]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA

I may be a Portland State Alum and fan, but they would need a serious upgrade of their facilities. PGE Park is not the best football venue and the Stott Center is a woefully inadequate basketball arena for a major D-1 program

[Casey_Orourke]

utsa is also adding football.


When can we expect UTSA to move uo and do they still have plans to move into the FBS in less that 10 years?

[grizband]

Almsot none. Seattle has no conference affiliation lined up (the West Coast declined their bid, despite the natural fit).
I knew they were beginning as an Independent, but I didn't know they were turned down by the WCC; from what I heard they are definitely moving up. Wonder where they will end up? The Big West is comprised of all California schools, but would that be an option? The West Coast does make the most sense, its a shame Seattle was turned down by that conference.

[93henfan]

Can those of you in the know attached a percentage that the following schools will do the following based on actual knowledge and not wishful thinking?

Moving to FBS
Texas State
Jacksonville St.
UMass
Sacramento St.
Portland State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian St

Adding football
Georgia State
UNC-Charlotte
Lamar
UT-Arlington
South Alabama
E Tennessee State

Moving to FCS
Valdosta St.
Indiana PA

News: http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=12700&ATCLID=1283987

They've hired Dan Reeves as the consultant/face of the drive to raise funds to get their program going so they can be the 14th football team in the CAA after Old Dominion starts in 2009. Article states 2010 is the earliest the program could be ready.

Also, I don't know about Valdosta State's intentions, but their facility is certainly worthy of an immediate jump to FCS:

http://www.vstateblazers.com/images/sports/mfootball/football-field.jpg

[grizband]

News: http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=12700&ATCLID=1283987

They've hired Dan Reeves as the face of the drive to raise funds to get their program going so they can be the 14th football team in the CAA after Old Dominion starts in 2009. Article states 2010 is the earliest the program could be ready.
Geographically, Georgia State makes more sense in the SoCon; is there any reason they are going with the CAA instead?

[93henfan]

Geographically, Georgia State makes more sense in the SoCon; is there any reason they are going with the CAA instead?

Probably only because they are already CAA members. They may rethink their loyalties once they calculate the travel budget of a football team.

[FCS Preview]

Also, I don't know about Valdosta State's intentions, but their facility is certainly worthy of an immediate jump to FCS:

http://www.vstateblazers.com/images/sports/mfootball/football-field.jpg

Believe it or not, that's Bazemore-Hyder Stadium, home of the Valdosta Wildcats -- HIGH SCHOOL. Valdosta State is the Blazers.

Valdosta State plays their home games there. Bazemore-Hyder Stadium currently has seating capacity for 10,349 fans due to renovations in the west end zone. Once the renovations are completed, the capacity will return to 11,249 that includes 7749 reserved seats. It was expanded in 2004. It used to look like this:

http://www.valdostafootball.com/stadium_renovation/pre_demolition/images/11.jpg

[ChooChoo]

The athletic department is towing the party line at Georgia State right now:
Do we plan to stay in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA)?
Currently, our plan is to play at that level and establish competitive goals accordingly. We may change our goals and consider going to Division I-A, but we realize that might take some time.
This is straight from the FAQ sheet I use when calling alumni for contributions towards football.
However, as you can see, they have never said we won't move up. Being in Atlanta, with our talent rich market, the Georgia Dome at are disposal, and a large influx of traditional students, we will be prepared to move up if the fans, talent, and wins dictate it. After that the keys will be getting the alumni to pony up more money and finding a FBS conference home.
My guess and mine alone?
Launch in 2010
Begin CAA play in 2012
Begin FBS Transition in 2015
FBS in 2017

So there's a 10 year goal. This would be about the fastest track I could see possible. 10% chance it's that fast, but I'll say its 90% that Georgia State will eventually "move up". Of course that's assuming everthing stays as is in NCAA D-I. A LOT of things can and probably will change between now and then.

[furpal87]

Isn't Old Dominion adding football and soon (2009?)

[93henfan]

Isn't Old Dominion adding football and soon (2009?)

Yes, CAA in 2009.

[93henfan]

Believe it or not, that's Bazemore-Hyder Stadium, home of the Valdosta Wildcats -- HIGH SCHOOL. Valdosta State is the Blazers.

WOW! So Valdosta High School is ready for the FCS then.xbowx

[WUTNDITWAA]

WOW! So Valdosta High School is ready for the FCS then.xbowx

As are half the schools in Texas. xreadx

[Eaglesrus]

I feel that I am probably as knowledgeable about GSU's situation as at least 10% of our fans, and based on that knowledge I would say that there is a 90% chance that the question for us is when we will move rather than if we will move.

[FCS Preview]

I feel that I am probably as knowledgeable about GSU's situation as at least 10% of our fans, and based on that knowledge I would say that there is a 90% chance that the question for us is when we will move rather than if we will move.

...and where. You're not going to move up as an Independent. What conferences would accept the Eagles? Or do they try to convince 7 other teams to move up with them and create a new conference? And would it be a FB-only alliance, or all-sports?

...and would GSU faithful be happy with 6 NC titles from now through eternity?...

[Tealblood]

...and where. You're not going to move up as an Independent. What conferences would accept the Eagles? Or do they try to convince 7 other teams to move up with them and create a new conference? And would it be a FB-only alliance, or all-sports?

...and would GSU faithful be happy with 6 NC titles from now through eternity?...


forming a new conference and moving together is what I said a bunch of posts ago and within 10 years it will be very viable if not already done

[mrklean]

...and where. You're not going to move up as an Independent. What conferences would accept the Eagles? Or do they try to convince 7 other teams to move up with them and create a new conference? And would it be a FB-only alliance, or all-sports?

...and would GSU faithful be happy with 6 NC titles from now through eternity?...


And the Hate keeps on comming!!!!!

[FCS Preview]

And the Hate keeps on comming!!!!!

It isn't hatred, it's a legitimate question. Unless GSU gets admitted to a BCS conference, they will never win another title. Would their fans be happy playing in a bowl game with no title implications, after the successful history the school has had at this level?

[Eaglesrus]

...and where. You're not going to move up as an Independent. What conferences would accept the Eagles? Or do they try to convince 7 other teams to move up with them and create a new conference? And would it be a FB-only alliance, or all-sports?

...and would GSU faithful be happy with 6 NC titles from now through eternity?...

The where could certainly be a factor in the when, that being part of the reason that I didn't attach a time frame to my first response. I am not one of those that advocates moving to the FBS, at least not in the foreseeable future, but I appear to be part of a growing (or would that be shrinking?) minority among GSU fans. Will we be happy if we aren't as successful as we have been in the FCS? (I know and yes, I do remember 2006) I think the answer to that is of course not, but I guess some people won't see it that way until it happens.

[ab4app]

Honestly, it would most likely after 2011. Granted peop;le want it to happen now. But with KBS getting expanded, and the moratorium (sp?) putting everything on hold. It will take longer than many would like. Moore wants us to stay in the FCS for now. I'd say there are a lot of factors that need to be in place before ASU considers a jump.

lets stay where we are, what a great position we are at in college football. I for one have no desire to move our program up, why would that be better at all? Just my 2 centsxeyebrowx

[hapapp]

lets stay where we are, what a great position we are at in college football. I for one have no desire to move our program up, why would that be better at all? Just my 2 centsxeyebrowx

Of course, if the landscape around us changes that may necessitate a change. I certainly hope (and assume) that our athletic administration is keeping an eye open to the possibilities. I am not at all unhappy where we are currently, but things may change and we may need to explore other opportunities. There are some legitimate arguments for changing just as one can make a valid case for the status quo.

I have never seen this as necessarily an either or proposition.

[Cocky]

forming a new conference and moving together is what I said a bunch of posts ago and within 10 years it will be very viable if not already done

There will be a new conference. The number of teams that will probably move up in 2011 will almost require a new conference. Just in the South, Georgia Southern, South Alabama, Texas State, and Jacksonville State have announced studies. If other teams some say are considering moving App State, Georgia State, Kennesaw State, Eastern Kentucky, and Coastal Carolina do move there are plenty for a new conference or scheduling agreements.

[Cocky]

I have a question maybe someone can answer. If you form a new conference how long do have to wait before you are given an automatic berth in the basketball tournament?

[FCS Preview]

I have never seen this as necessarily an either or proposition.

xconfusedx

Either you stay in FCS or you move to FBS. There's no in between.

[FCS Preview]

I have a question maybe someone can answer. If you form a new conference how long do have to wait before you are given an automatic berth in the basketball tournament?

So you think they would move and form a new, all-sports conference? Rather than staying in their respective conferences for all sports but FB? Because of the MBB tournament, that might be unlikely. (I think it's a 6-year wait?

Also, that would necessitate the addition of another play-in game if they don't want to reduce the number of at-large berths available (34).

[asufan87]

xconfusedx

Either you stay in FCS or you move to FBS. There's no in between.

I believe he meant there are pros and cons both for moving up and for staying put.

[Cocky]

So you think they would move and form a new, all-sports conference? Rather than staying in their respective conferences for all sports but FB? Because of the MBB tournament, that might be unlikely. (I think it's a 6-year wait?

Also, that would necessitate the addition of another play-in game if they don't want to reduce the number of at-large berths available (34).

I'm sure most of the current conferences would not want to keep them. Some leagues like the A-Sun might take them or maybe they could add FBS football to the A-Sun.

[TexasTerror]

Would be nice if the Univ of New Orleans added football...

http://www.privateerfootball.com/

[slycat]

When can we expect UTSA to move uo and do they still have plans to move into the FBS in less that 10 years?

from what i understand they want to jump straight to fbs once to 4 year period is up. i know the students passed fees to back it. the slc doesnt want another school to use them as a stepping stone like la-monroe did.

if utsa and texas st moved up together they would make perfect rivals seeing that they are our top rival in sports other then football.

[hapapp]

xconfusedx

Either you stay in FCS or you move to FBS. There's no in between.

I meant that I didn't see it as one choice as being the right one and the other the wrong one. There strong arguments on both sides of the equation. I choose to remain open minded about this issue. I am happy in FCS but I could forsee a time when a move would be fortuitous.

[813Jag]

Would be nice if the Univ of New Orleans added football...

http://www.privateerfootball.com/
That would be interesting to see, I for one would love another football program in Louisiana.

[D1scout]

lets stay where we are, what a great position we are at in college football. I for one have no desire to move our program up, why would that be better at all? Just my 2 centsxeyebrowx

Does the fact that you refer to moving "our program up" give you a clue that you realize that D-1 FBC is a more valued commodity in American society and may be better!:)

[Kill'em]

While I think we are best served to stay in the FCS, the changing landscapre of D-I football might necessitate a move to the BS. If other schools in this region move, it might be foolish to not move. Personally, I love the opportunity of playing for a National Championship, something I wouldn't see again in my lifetime if we moved to the BS.

[Lionsrking]

Would be nice if the Univ of New Orleans added football...

http://www.privateerfootball.com/

You can never say never, but I think it's safe to say in the case of UNO, they'll "never" add football. Way too many obstacles, ranging from declining enrollment to an apathetic alumni base that could care less about athletics. Talk about a commuter school...UNO is the poster child.

[UCAMonkey]

You can never say never, but I think it's safe to say in the case of UNO, they'll "never" add football. Way too many obstacles, ranging from declining enrollment to an apathetic alumni base that could care less about athletics. Talk about a commuter school...UNO is the poster child.


Not to mention that they would have to compete with Tulane which already struggles to keep a good fan base.

[813Jag]

Not to mention that they would have to compete with Tulane which already struggles to keep a good fan base.
That's because they struggle to keep a good team.

[BloomHusky'01]

The president at IUP (Indiana University of PA) has stated publicly that they would like to move up to D1. He has even been so bold as to say their ultimate goal is to go to FBS, with a few years of transition in FCS. As far as I know, the University is still doing internal research on this. If they do want to move up, they have some serious fund raising to do. They are currently not able to fund the max number of scholarships permitted by the PSAC (currently 24, will be 36 beginning in 2008) and their facilities will need to be upgraded. Those of us that follow the PSAC keep hearing that IUP will be moving up, but based on where they are at right now I would have to say they are still 3-5 years away from doing it.

[Rekdiver]

It's been studied....and the answer is no.

here are some facts.

Stadium and enhancements are still not complete.
Booster club raised $1.0mm for the first time this past year.
Attendance averaged 27m for the 1st time. Need at least 30,000 and consistancy for several years.
Home games would drop to 5 and possibly 4. What big school wants to come to Boone? (Look at the trouble ECU and Marshall had)
the idea of the Motor City Bowl, The Humanitarian Bowl or playing in Birmingham, Ala shortly after Christmas doesn't appeal to App after playing for a NC.
Costs of travel and a new conference affiliation (mid major at best) doesn't get it right now.
Succession plan for Coach Moore? How many years are left for this iconic figure?

We can spend money on other programs...like getting our basketball program up to snuff.

[Hoyadestroya85]

I'd put Villanova at 1 in 30 due to the tie in with a BCS conference...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The president at IUP (Indiana University of PA) has stated publicly that they would like to move up to D1. He has even been so bold as to say their ultimate goal is to go to FBS, with a few years of transition in FCS. As far as I know, the University is still doing internal research on this. If they do want to move up, they have some serious fund raising to do. They are currently not able to fund the max number of scholarships permitted by the PSAC (currently 24, will be 36 beginning in 2008) and their facilities will need to be upgraded. Those of us that follow the PSAC keep hearing that IUP will be moving up, but based on where they are at right now I would have to say they are still 3-5 years away from doing it.

There is also a big question as to which conference they would go into - probably the NEC, though the CAA or even the Gateway could not be counted out entirely. If indeed FBS football is where they want to go, they'd be a MAC candidate.

As you pointed out, though, IUP is nowhere near the level it needs to be even at Division II before it could think about going to D-I, and the moratorium also doesn't help.

I even wonder if other PSAC teams may move to D-I....

[yosef1969]

It's been studied....and the answer is no.

here are some facts.

Stadium and enhancements are still not complete.
Booster club raised $1.0mm for the first time this past year.
Attendance averaged 27m for the 1st time. Need at least 30,000 and consistancy for several years.
Home games would drop to 5 and possibly 4. What big school wants to come to Boone? (Look at the trouble ECU and Marshall had)
the idea of the Motor City Bowl, The Humanitarian Bowl or playing in Birmingham, Ala shortly after Christmas doesn't appeal to App after playing for a NC.
Costs of travel and a new conference affiliation (mid major at best) doesn't get it right now.
Succession plan for Coach Moore? How many years are left for this iconic figure?

We can spend money on other programs...like getting our basketball program up to snuff.

If you're talking next year or the next you're correct.

But the facts are:

-there is a 4 year moratorium and ASU will be nearing readiness to make a move when it is lifted, if the opportunity presents itself.
- enhancements will be nearing completion when moratorium is lifted
- There is not a minimum attendance requirement any longer, 27000 is far better than many FBS programs, hell 20K is better than some.
- Coach Moore's successor has nothing to do with the move up. Most coaches do not survive the transition anyway
-When you say those bowls do not appeal to App after an NC, speak for yourself, they do appeal to very large percentage of the fan base.
-Fund raising efforts would be enhanced by offering a schedule of Marshall, ECU, Wake etc over one that brings in Lenoir Rhyne, Presby, and Mars Hill.
- A move will not happen over night, just a few years ago we had 5 home games at this level, with an improved schedule, I would say 5 home games is acceptable until the program has stablized and teams begin to agree to do home and home agreements.
- There is currently not a good "fit" in terms of conferences. However in 5 to 10 years their will be another wave of realignment. An opportunity will present itself if ASU is prepared.

I have said before that I'm not sure if it's the right thing for ASU but I think it is coming. Also very interested to see how the landscape changes coming out of the moratorium. I am inclined to think that the NCAA will impose more stingent requirements and that could change everything.

I think ideally for the programs that have fully committed to FCS, the best outcome would be a move to apply more concrete minimum requirements to both FBS and FCS. Possibly creating another tier within D-I. Separating non-playoff and non-schollies, moving scholarhips to 75 max 63 min. Not sure if that's realistic but I'd like to see it.

Then we could leave FBS to the BCS conferences.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Err, why would a team that's a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Sky consider moving to FBS? xconfusedx

I can't read his mind, but it might be because a couple years ago there was talk at Sac St. about upgrading and the WAC.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

I have a question maybe someone can answer. If you form a new conference how long do have to wait before you are given an automatic berth in the basketball tournament?

Possibly forever...or until the NCAA expands the tourney.

[FCS Preview]

-When you say those bowls do not appeal to App after an NC, speak for yourself, they do appeal to very large percentage of the fan base.

Really? A large percentage of the fan base would be happy with say, an (8-4) record and a berth in the Meineke Car Care Bowl or the Poinsettia Bowl?

[yosef1969]

Really? A large percentage of the fan base would be happy with say, an (8-4) record and a berth in the Meineke Car Care Bowl or the Poinsettia Bowl?
Yes

[BloomHusky'01]

There is also a big question as to which conference they would go into - probably the NEC, though the CAA or even the Gateway could not be counted out entirely. If indeed FBS football is where they want to go, they'd be a MAC candidate.

As you pointed out, though, IUP is nowhere near the level it needs to be even at Division II before it could think about going to D-I, and the moratorium also doesn't help.

I even wonder if other PSAC teams may move to D-I....

Extremely doubtful. IUP has a great football tradition and I think the potential is there to raise money for a move up but its going to be tough. California (Pa) has some major momentum in their program right now but their focus is exactly where it should be, which is on raising money and funding scholarships to win in D2. All of the other PA state schools are no where close to being FCS candidates and (as far as I know) none of them are interested. They belong where they are.

[FCS Preview]

Yes

So then go. xnodx

Many years ago I was at a basketball game, and was chatting with the SID and head FB coach. We were a I-AA Independent at the time, trying to either get into the Yankee Conference or Patriot League and I was asked if I would support seeing us move up to I-A. I said "Hell yeah! We could have Army, Syracuse and other schools come here for games!"

Now I realize how naive I was and am glad we stayed at this level.

For all I know the extent of the discussion about moving up was that night with the three of us at a basketball game.

[I-AA Fan]

IUP? Did I miss something there? How many remember West Chester tried to go I-AA in the 80's and failed, and they are close to a major city. The PSAC has some quality programs, and they did just expand to 14-teams with Mercyhurst, Gannon, and CW Post. However, I did not see any news of anyone leaving.

[yosef1969]

So then go. xnodx

Many years ago I was at a basketball game, and was chatting with the SID and head FB coach. We were a I-AA Independent at the time, trying to either get into the Yankee Conference or Patriot League and I was asked if I would support seeing us move up to I-A. I said "Hell yeah! We could have Army, Syracuse and other schools come here for games!"

Now I realize how naive I was and am glad we stayed at this level.

For all I know the extent of the discussion about moving up was that night with the three of us at a basketball game.

Thanks for teaching me up. I'm so naive just as is anyone else that would ever even consider the the notion that moving up is right for their alma mater. I Thank god I have your wisdom to show me the way. xrolleyesx

The question was whether or not a large percentage of the fan base would be just as happy with an 8-4 record and a bowl game as they would with an NC. Like it or not, the answer is still yes. I don't know if I agree with the opinion but it exist in large numbers.

Look, I get it, your mind is made up and you made an informed opinion but don't impose your values and perceptions onto everyone else. Just because an opinion differs with yours doesn't make it uninformed or naive. xnonox
There are cases to be made for both sides of the discussion. But I suppose since this is an FCS discussion board any alternate view must be suppressed.

Take your holy than thou condescension elsewhere.xwhistlex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

IUP? Did I miss something there? How many remember West Chester tried to go I-AA in the 80's and failed, and they are close to a major city. The PSAC has some quality programs, and they did just expand to 14-teams with Mercyhurst, Gannon, and CW Post. However, I did not see any news of anyone leaving.

One wonders if Mercyhurst, Gannon and CWP are going to be the replacements for West Chester, California (PA) and IUP moving to D-I... that's always been my (uninformed, admittedly) suspicion.

[FCS Preview]

Thanks for teaching me up. I'm so naive just as is anyone else that would ever even consider the the notion that moving up is right for their alma mater. I Thank god I have your wisdom to show me the way. xrolleyesx

The question was whether or not a large percentage of the fan base would be just as happy with an 8-4 record and a bowl game as they would with an NC. Like it or not, the answer is still yes. I don't know if I agree with the opinion but it exist in large numbers.

Look, I get it, your mind is made up and you made an informed opinion but don't impose your values and perceptions onto everyone else. Just because an opinion differs with yours doesn't make it uninformed or naive. xnonox
There are cases to be made for both sides of the discussion. But I suppose since this is an FCS discussion board any alternate view must be suppressed.

Take your holy than thou condescension elsewhere.xwhistlex

I only said I was naive...I didn't imply anyone else was. Going I-A sounded exciting that night. But in reality, we'd have ended up more like Akron and Buffalo than Boise State.

And as I said a couple of posts ago, if that (8-4) record and a trip to the Liberty Bowl makes ya all happy then go ahead. But don't confuse the excitement of being FBS-level with what the reality most likely has in store.

[yosef1969]

I only said I was naive...I didn't imply anyone else was. Going I-A sounded exciting that night. But in reality, we'd have ended up more like Akron and Buffalo than Boise State.

And as I said a couple of posts ago, if that (8-4) record and a trip to the Liberty Bowl makes ya all happy then go ahead. But don't confuse the excitement of being FBS-level with what the reality most likely has in store.

Good enough, sounded patronizing but must have misinterpreted.

[ab4app]

Really? A large percentage of the fan base would be happy with say, an (8-4) record and a berth in the Meineke Car Care Bowl or the Poinsettia Bowl?

Not this fan, While a move up may be hard to get around if the program continues to grow like this, We should atleast give it 10 years. I would not be happy with 8-4 and some .com bowl, that is for sure, we are in a great spot right now, I say stay put.xnonox

[yosef1969]

Not this fan, While a move up may be hard to get around if the program continues to grow like this, We should atleast give it 10 years. I would not be happy with 8-4 and some .com bowl, that is for sure, we are in a great spot right now, I say stay put.xnonox

Never said 100% of the fan base! xpeacex Large percentage is relative I suppose.

The Mountaineers are in a great spot right now, key words, right now. However ASU will not be able to sustain it's current level of success indefinitely.

I have waivered on this issue over the years. No doubt it is a risky proposition to move to FBS. IMHO unless the NCAA takes action coming out of the moratorium to shore up FCS by setting minimums for scholarships, attendance etc., ASU and other like minded programs should look to make a move.

If steps are taken to save FCS I am all for them remaining exactly where they are. If I could come up with a dream scenario it'd be creation of a additional division in D-I. Setting scholly levels at 75 or so, encouraging non-BCS programs to move to the new division and creating a BCS only division. It's a pipedream I know but one can dream.

I heard this argument earlier and I do find it interesting... If it is all about winning championships why not just move down to division II? ASU could continue football success and do much better in the other major sports, Technically if ASU were move to FBS they'd have a chance at an NC. They'd have just as good a realistic chance of winning a football championship as they currently have in basketball and baseball.;)

Currently the expectations of ASU in basketball is to hope for a winning season, conference tournament win, get to the NCAA tourney pray for a win or two or heaven forbid reach the final four. How's that different than 8-4 and Car Care Bowl?

[ab4app]

Lets give it 3 or 4 years, (since we have to) and see where we are then, maybe things will have changed in the fbs world by that point enough to entice us to make the move -- playoffs-- For now I love our brand of football. I could defntly see us being something like a boise st or usf if we did make the move, meaning we could be very successful in a short amount of time. Any who, before I talk my self out of my stance, I better shut upxrotatehx xlolx

[BigApp]

Err, why would a team that's a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Sky consider moving to FBS? xconfusedx


Ask SUNY Buffalo...

or UConn...

[FCS Preview]

or UConn...

UConn had very successful stretches in I-AA. They went (10-3) in their next-to-last season in I-AA (including a playoff berth), won or shared 15 Yankee/A-10 titles and still holds the record for most consecutive Yankee/A-10/CAA titles with 5.

Buffalo outright sucked as a D-III school and a I-AA school before moving up to I-A and sucking there too.

[BigApp]

ever been to Buffalo?

[FCS Preview]

ever been to Buffalo?

Me? Yes.

[BigApp]

then it shouldn't be too much of an issue to you why they moved up. You'd already know why.

[Saint3333]

UConn had very successful stretches in I-AA. They went (10-3) in their next-to-last season in I-AA (including a playoff berth), won or shared 15 Yankee/A-10 titles and still holds the record for most consecutive Yankee/A-10/CAA titles with 5.

Buffalo outright sucked as a D-III school and a I-AA school before moving up to I-A and sucking there too.

So could there be a correlation between successful 1-AA programs and success at the 1-A/FBS level? xnodx

I'm not saying it is absolute as I'm sure that will be your reply.

[BloomHusky'01]

One wonders if Mercyhurst, Gannon and CWP are going to be the replacements for West Chester, California (PA) and IUP moving to D-I... that's always been my (uninformed, admittedly) suspicion.

IUP is the only team in the PSAC that is even discussing a move to D1, and my (slightly) informed opinion is that they are still a long way from doing it. None of the others will be going anywhere any time soon. As for Gannon, Mercyhurst and Post, football is only a small part of why they were brought into the conference. The PSAC is still working hard to become competitive on the national level and thats what the schools need to be focusing on now. None of them would be good FCS candidates with the possible exceptions of IUP and Cal.

[Rekdiver]

What was better watched the ECU/BSU game, the Purdue Central Mich game or the FCS ASU Deleware game....I can tell you that me and my 100 tailgaters arent going to Birmingham, Detroit or some second tier bowl.

Yosef1969, we can agree to disagree, but I don't see ASU being able to afford a move to FBS without much more financial support and that is in my opinion 10 years off. UCONN completed a $1.0 BILLION campaign for improvements including a 40,000 seat stadium. I would like to see what the various schools including FBS and FCS booster clubs raise in comparison to ASU. The small cadre of "moving up" supporters while vocal speak more from emotion than sound financial planning. I can tell you that the YOSEF supporters that I talk to are at this time against a move by a 7-3 margin.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What was better watched the ECU/BSU game, the Purdue Central Mich game or the FCS ASU Deleware game....I can tell you that me and my 100 tailgaters arent going to Birmingham, Detroit or some second tier bowl.

Yosef1969, we can agree to disagree, but I don't see ASU being able to afford a move to FBS without much more financial support and that is in my opinion 10 years off. UCONN completed a $1.0 BILLION campaign for improvements including a 40,000 seat stadium. I would like to see what the various schools including FBS and FCS booster clubs raise in comparison to ASU. The small cadre of "moving up" supporters while vocal speak more from emotion than sound financial planning. I can tell you that the YOSEF supporters that I talk to are at this time against a move by a 7-3 margin.

UConn also had a once-in-a-lifetime open invitation to the Big East in football due to their achievements in men's and women's basketball. That cannot be underestimated here. If there was ever a time that all the planets aligned just right for a school to jump to BCS, it's UConn, and quite frankly I don't now, nor have ever, blamed them. State school, Big East bucks, national champions in basketball (men's and women's)... they were basically printing money and had an open invite to a BCS confernece, and bringing the football program to FBS was a logical step.

I am fairly sure Renschler (sp?) field was also partially paid for by that drunken sailor himself, Governor Rowland. Originally he was trying to lure the Patriots from Foxboro. The likelihood of ASU or GSU getting state support for their huge stadiums is next to zero.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Rentschler Field was built on 75 acres of land donated by the United Technologies Corporation in East Hartford, the former airport for Pratt & Whitney Aircraft. It was completely built by state money when the people of CT became convinced that not upgrading football was going to jeopardize the sacred cow called basketball. The $93 Million appropriation included the on campus indoor training facility as well. And yes the buffoon you call a drunken sailor was governor at the time.

And just for the record, Blue Hens' fans are going to love this, said ex-con ex-governor's alma mater is Villanova. xeekx

To the Storrs Sled Dog's credit, they have jumped on the football bandwagon and support the team unlike during their I-AA days. (I've never been to one of their games so I can't validate comments made about their fan's behavior.) They apparently have even sold all their tickets to this year's bowl game -- the George Foreman Muffler Soiree in Charlotte versus Wake Forest.

[yosef1969]

What was better watched the ECU/BSU game, the Purdue Central Mich game or the FCS ASU Deleware game....I can tell you that me and my 100 tailgaters arent going to Birmingham, Detroit or some second tier bowl.

Yosef1969, we can agree to disagree, but I don't see ASU being able to afford a move to FBS without much more financial support and that is in my opinion 10 years off. UCONN completed a $1.0 BILLION campaign for improvements including a 40,000 seat stadium. I would like to see what the various schools including FBS and FCS booster clubs raise in comparison to ASU. The small cadre of "moving up" supporters while vocal speak more from emotion than sound financial planning. I can tell you that the YOSEF supporters that I talk to are at this time against a move by a 7-3 margin.

Disagreeing is fine as long as everyone gets both sides of the story. I just don't think we should project the opinion of our groups as that of an entire fan base. I did say large percentage and I suppose that is a relative term. I have been a yosef contributor since graduaton many years ago and in our group of approximately 30 we discuss this topic often and the ratio is closer to 6-4 for a move. The bowl games are only a part of the deal. The biggest concern for those wanting the move tends to be the quality of the regular season schedule.

Money is the biggest hurdle no argument there. In my vocal emotional opinion ASU has never put forth the proper fundraising efforts. They have improved slightly in the past 3 yrs but they didn't even use email to recruit and communicate until a couple of years ago. The point system didn't exist until this year. Previous administrations did not value athletics the way the current leaders do so our record is questionable in that regard.

I don't have the exact numbers but I recall being told that an embarrassing percentage of ASU alums actually contribute to the YOSEF fund, less than 1 percent if I recall. Many of our alums contribute to UNC, NCSU, Duke and WFU rather than ASU. IMHO with improved fundraising efforts, promise of a better schedule, and the percieved value of FBS the money would come in at a far better rate.

10 yrs? maybe, maybe not but in terms of a football program that's not very long. It's been longer than that since Marshall and Boise State made the jump and we talk about them here as if they are recent departures.

Nothing wrong with preparing for the future now.

[ButlerGSU]

Really? A large percentage of the fan base would be happy with say, an (8-4) record and a berth in the Meineke Car Care Bowl or the Poinsettia Bowl?

Why wouldn't they?

[FCS Preview]

Why wouldn't they?

Why would they?

[Saint3333]

Based on the number of fans attending they are happy.xnodx

[FCS Preview]

Based on the number of fans attending they are happy.xnodx

Who's happy with what?

[Sly Fox]

FCS Preview - Lighten up, dude. There are people who have differing opinions than you. And when you have Liberty alumni telling you this it should have even greater impact. xprayx

Speaking of my alma mater, we are a private school that has publicly stated our intentions of moving up. And we are putting our money where our collectives mouths are by upgrading facilities.

As Tealblood mentioned earlier in the thread, a new league is likely the venue for most southeastern schools to step up. I'm surprising no one has mentioned JMU as well.

As for new FCS programs, A&M-Corpus Christi told the Southland they had intentions to start a football program as part of their bid to join the conference. I suspect we'll see them suiting up in the next decade.

[Saint3333]

Who's happy with what?

Let me introduce you to two of my friends whom you obviously haven't met: Logic and Reason.xcoffeex

[putter]

The problem I see with moving up, other than cost, is the illusion. Fans I listen to always talk about how moving to the FBS would allow them to (depending upon where your school is located) play USC, Florida etc. at home. Like it or not it will be years before any school that moved up would even be in a position to get a top FBS school to even consider a home and home with you. Most times you would get the same deal that you do as an FCS team, a road game with nothing in return.

The first few years of FBS participation your OOC would look the same as your conference schedule does now. You are playing "down" against teams that were your conference mates a year ago, but, you now have to pay them $150k or more for it.

[Saint3333]

Sure the first few years can be rough, but the regular season rewards down the line can be huge. The Sun Belt schools are beginning to get BCS programs in their stadiums.

It is painful trying fill out a schedule at ASU right now.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Sure the first few years can be rough, but the regular season rewards down the line can be huge. The Sun Belt schools are beginning to get BCS programs in their stadiums.

It is painful trying fill out a schedule at ASU right now.



Home schedule or away.xrulesx

[FCS Preview]

FAU had Minnesota and S. Florida at home.
FIU had Maryland
MTSU had Virginia
Troy had Oklahoma State

[fjblair]

The problem I see with moving up, other than cost, is the illusion. Fans I listen to always talk about how moving to the FBS would allow them to (depending upon where your school is located) play USC, Florida etc. at home. Like it or not it will be years before any school that moved up would even be in a position to get a top FBS school to even consider a home and home with you. Most times you would get the same deal that you do as an FCS team, a road game with nothing in return.

The first few years of FBS participation your OOC would look the same as your conference schedule does now. You are playing "down" against teams that were your conference mates a year ago, but, you now have to pay them $150k or more for it.


Exactly. Unless a team can move to real bcs conference(small market teams need not apply) it would seem that the quality of the regular season schedule doesn't really improve that much, if at all. It's not like all the heavy hitters are going to line up to play you just because you have moved to bcs. And if your team has the potential to upset the upper echelon teams, they aren't going to schedule you as an ooc opponent.

[yosef1969]

Exactly. Unless a team can move to real bcs conference(small market teams need not apply) it would seem that the quality of the regular season schedule doesn't really improve that much, if at all. It's not like all the heavy hitters are going to line up to play you just because you have moved to bcs. And if your team has the potential to upset the upper echelon teams, they aren't going to schedule you as an ooc opponent.
Doesn't necessarily have to be the heavy hitters. If ASU gets ECU, Wake, Marshall, any of the midatlantic ACC schools etc. It would make many folks very happy! BTW what is "real" BCS conference???xsmiley_wix Dreams of BCS aren't realistic for ASU. Even so, if the NCAA doesn't take steps to improve FCS I would be for them moving to FBS.xnodx

[DFW HOYA]

Even so, if the NCAA doesn't take steps to improve FCS I would be for them moving to FBS.

What steps are those?

[yosef1969]

What steps are those?
To start I'd recommend setting scholarship minimums and/or grants in aid, staffing minimums, and attendance requirements. Require the participation in the playoffs to be in the FCS (Football Championship Division).

This would of course create a third tier in D-I. FCS should be given all of the protections afforded FBS. The SWAC and IVY are rich in tradition and could add so much to the division but being in the championship division and not participating in the one thing that most distinguishes FCS is harmful to the division as a whole.

[UCAMonkey]

Doesn't necessarily have to be the heavy hitters. If ASU gets ECU, Wake, Marshall, any of the midatlantic ACC schools etc. It would make many folks very happy! BTW what is "real" BCS conference???xsmiley_wix Dreams of BCS aren't realistic for ASU. Even so, if the NCAA doesn't take steps to improve FCS I would be for them moving to FBS.xnodx


No BCS member is going to leave to start a non-BCS conference. Too much money involved.

[yosef1969]

No BCS member is going to leave to start a non-BCS conference. Too much money involved.

Agreed. I was talking about the prospect of getting those teams for OOC schedulingxnodx.

[FCS Preview]

To start I'd recommend setting scholarship minimums and/or grants in aid, staffing minimums, and attendance requirements. Require the participation in the playoffs to be in the FCS (Football Championship Division).

This would of course create a third tier in D-I. FCS should be given all of the protections afforded FBS. The SWAC and IVY are rich in tradition and could add so much to the division but being in the championship division and not participating in the one thing that most distinguishes FCS is harmful to the division as a whole.

You couldn't set attendance requirements, unless you set it ridiculously low so anyone could met them. If a school averages only 3000 fans a game, but is willing to field a full (63) scholarship program, why should they be relegated down? Do they then have to field a non- or limited-scholarship team in your model? And then what happens to conference schedules if say, Maine or Hofstra don't meet your attendance requirements?

And then would there be a playoff for the limited- or non-scholarship schools? And then what about the Ivies and SWAC, who still wouldn't be participating in the playoffs? So then why not just leave them where they are?

[fjblair]

Doesn't necessarily have to be the heavy hitters. If ASU gets ECU, Wake, Marshall, any of the midatlantic ACC schools etc. It would make many folks very happy! BTW what is "real" BCS conference???xsmiley_wix Dreams of BCS aren't realistic for ASU. Even so, if the NCAA doesn't take steps to improve FCS I would be for them moving to FBS.xnodx



"BTW what is "real" BCS conference???xsmiley_wix "

Kind of redundant, huh? I just don't think going to SunBelt/C-USA etc is all that attractive.

And you are right about NCAA. They could strengthen the division and help boost the image of the FCS.

[UCAMonkey]

As are half the schools in Texas. xreadx

My favorite high school stadium in Texas.
http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/index.html

http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/images/dsc00095.jpg
http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/images/dsc00129.jpg
http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/images/dsc00108.jpg

[yosef1969]

You couldn't set attendance requirements, unless you set it ridiculously low so anyone could met them. If a school averages only 3000 fans a game, but is willing to field a full (63) scholarship program, why should they be relegated down? Do they then have to field a non- or limited-scholarship team in your model? And then what happens to conference schedules if say, Maine or Hofstra don't meet your attendance requirements?

And then would there be a playoff for the limited- or non-scholarship schools? And then what about the Ivies and SWAC, who still wouldn't be participating in the playoffs? So then why not just leave them where they are?

Attendance requirements maybe unattainable, not sure but the idea is to keep programs from moving up until they can maintain certain levels. Perhaps it would require grandfathering existing programs.

And yes if a program chooses not meet minimum scholarship requirements or they choose not to participate in the playoff they should be relegated to another division. Having programs in a championship division that do not participate in the championship process is foolish.

The idea is that FCS deserves programs that make a real committment to fully participate in the division. It should not be, well they don't fit in FBS or D-II so let's stick them here. A product with a lot of potention is being diluted.

[FCS Preview]

And yes if a program chooses not meet minimum scholarship requirements or they choose not to participate in the playoff they should be relegated to another division. Having programs in a championship division that do not participate in the championship process is foolish.

So then what do you do with the Ivy and SWAC? Make them their own classification?

[yosef1969]

So then what do you do with the Ivy and SWAC? Make them their own classification?

Yes, all non-scholarship and non playoff participating programs should be designated as a separate division.

Alternative option would allow non-scholarship programs to participate in lower division in football but maintain D-I in other sports.

What is the benefit of designating non-playoff participants FCS?
Just put them in FBS, oh wait, they have a minimum requirement for scholarships. xrolleyesx

One more quick note after thinking about the previous suggestion of attendance minimums, I think maybe to serve the intended purpose that perhaps a minimum seating capacity should be set rather than actual attendance.

Obviously I don't have all the answers but just because there are sure to obstacles doesn't mean improvements shouldn't be made. Some would be left out sure but in many ways the two leagues we are discussing here have chosen to be excluded and that's fine. I wish they would participate in the playoffs under the current structure. History has shown that a separate but equal policy does not work.

[Cocky]

My favorite high school stadium in Texas.
http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/index.html

http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/images/dsc00095.jpg
http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/images/dsc00129.jpg
http://www.drumcorpstexas.org/BerryStadium-3/images/dsc00108.jpg

The house Sam built?

[FCS Preview]

Yes, all non-scholarship and non playoff participating programs should be designated as a separate division.

You missed my point.

Let's say the non/limited scholarship teams have their own division...with their own playoff. Do you put the Ivy and SWAC teams there? If you do, then why not leave them at the current FCS? Or do you have the SWAC and Ivy teams as their own league as they don't participate in the playoffs either way...

[ERASU2113]

You missed my point.

Let's say the non/limited scholarship teams have their own division...with their own playoff. Do you put the Ivy and SWAC teams there? If you do, then why not leave them at the current FCS? Or do you have the SWAC and Ivy teams as their own league as they don't participate in the playoffs either way...

I've always wondered why don't the SWAC and Ivy compete in the playoffs? They are I-AA/FCS right? I didn't know if it was the conference decision to not play or if there is/was another factor.

[yosef1969]

You missed my point.

Let's say the non/limited scholarship teams have their own division...with their own playoff. Do you put the Ivy and SWAC teams there? If you do, then why not leave them at the current FCS? Or do you have the SWAC and Ivy teams as their own league as they don't participate in the playoffs either way...

Sorry I understood but you're right I didn't articulate my response very well. xoopsx

IMO the new tier should be the "exception" subdivision. If a program chooses not to fully participate they would be designated or relegated to the tier composed of non/limited scolarship teams. They can just as easily choose not to participate in that subdivision playoff.

The reason I am opposed to them simply remaining put is more complicated but it is based on SOS. Not to go too deeply into this topic at this time but IMHO I think that SOS has to become more of a factor in the selection process or the selections legitimacy will become more of an issue, rightly or wrongly. Teams playing by different rules are impossible to compare with any accuracy, it's not perfect when they are on equal footing either but at least they are comparable.

The playoffs and selection process are whole different issues and that I don't want to go into here but while I agree the playoff model is superior to the bowl system, the current playoff structure could be improved as well.

[yosef1969]

I've always wondered why don't the SWAC and Ivy compete in the playoffs? They are I-AA/FCS right? I didn't know if it was the conference decision to not play or if there is/was another factor.

Both conferences choose not to participate for different reasons.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but the SWAC doesn't participate because the Bayou classic has always been played the same week as the first round of the playoffs and they also choose to have a conference championship. You can't really blame them, the tradition goes way back, the TV ratings and attendance for both are better than the FCS Championship game. It would still be great for them to bring all that tradition and pagentry to the playoffs.
For the IVY league it is an issue of the playoffs having a negative impact on academics. Again understandable but with the history, name recognition and tradition it would strengthen the playoffs if they were to participate.

[ERASU2113]

Both conferences choose not to participate for different reasons.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but the SWAC doesn't participate because the Bayou classic has always been played the same week as the first round of the playoffs and they also choose to have a conference championship. You can't really blame them, the tradition goes way back, the TV ratings and attendance for both are better than the FCS Championship game. It would still be great for them to bring all that tradition and pagentry to the playoffs.
For the IVY league it is an issue of the playoffs having a negative impact on academics. Again understandable but with the history, name recognition and tradition it would strengthen the playoffs if they were to participate.

That's what I thought of with the Ivy wasn't sure about the SWAC. Appreciate it xthumbsupx

[yosef1969]

No problem!

[AppGrad07]

I know That UNC-Charlotte is really pushing hard to add football. The only reason they haven't so far is that an older woman who donated millions of dollars every year to the school only did so if they promised not to have a football team. She has died now and they are really looking into adding one. No time has been set yet but they have been having a lot of meetings about it.

[813Jag]

Both conferences choose not to participate for different reasons.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but the SWAC doesn't participate because the Bayou classic has always been played the same week as the first round of the playoffs and they also choose to have a conference championship. You can't really blame them, the tradition goes way back, the TV ratings and attendance for both are better than the FCS Championship game. It would still be great for them to bring all that tradition and pagentry to the playoffs.
For the IVY league it is an issue of the playoffs having a negative impact on academics. Again understandable but with the history, name recognition and tradition it would strengthen the playoffs if they were to participate.
Here's the deal, Southern, Grambling, and Alabama State have not gone to the playoffs due their games on Thanksgiving (Turkey Day Classic: Alabama State and Tuskegee) and the Saturday after Thanksgiving (Bayou Classic:Southern and Grambling). Although Grambling did go to the playoffs a couple of times back in the day. The rest of the SWAC stopped going to the playoffs in 1999 when the SWAC championship game was created, giving us a postseason game (one that I don't think is necessary with the old nine game mandate) although if a division runner up (not named Grambling, Southern, or Alabama State) could go to the playoffs if their resume was impressive enough. Alabama A&M was considered this year, although I don't know how seriously they were considered.
Whew! It's kind of confusing and unneccessary. And after typing all of that I realized I kinda said the same thing you did. xlolx

[yosef1969]

I did forget about the Turkey Day Classic. Thanks for the clarification. I think that a third place team SWAC team would have a tough time getting serious playoff consideration but never say never I suppose. Never thought I see 5 teams from one conference either.

[813Jag]

I did forget about the Turkey Day Classic. Thanks for the clarification. I think that a third place team SWAC team would have a tough time getting serious playoff consideration but never say never I suppose. Never thought I see 5 teams from one conference either.
That's the main reason why I stated that I didn't know how seriously AAMU was considered for an at-large spot. I personally feel that the conference champ should represent in the playoffs, second place should only go if the champ has been selected.

[BigApp]

Both conferences choose not to participate for different reasons.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but the SWAC doesn't participate because the Bayou classic has always been played the same week as the first round of the playoffs and they also choose to have a conference championship. You can't really blame them, the tradition goes way back, the TV ratings and attendance for both are better than the FCS Championship game. It would still be great for them to bring all that tradition and pagentry to the playoffs.
For the IVY league it is an issue of the playoffs having a negative impact on academics. Again understandable but with the history, name recognition and tradition it would strengthen the playoffs if they were to participate.

take away their basketball money and those 2 tunes will change in a heartbeat!

[UCAMonkey]

The house Sam built?

Uncle Sam not Sam Houston St.

[WUTNDITWAA]

I know That UNC-Charlotte is really pushing hard to add football. The only reason they haven't so far is that an older woman who donated millions of dollars every year to the school only did so if they promised not to have a football team. She has died now and they are really looking into adding one. No time has been set yet but they have been having a lot of meetings about it.

That really needs to be a Snopes entry. None of it is true.

[appchuck]

That really needs to be a Snopes entry. None of it is true.

I do not know if it is true or not, but I heard the same thing several years ago, when this "lady" was still alive from an alumni. (She was actually attending UNCC at the time). She said that once this lady passed away they would get football but not until then. As I said just what I heard.

[asu7]

I do not know if it is true or not, but I heard the same thing several years ago, when this "lady" was still alive from an alumni. (She was actually attending UNCC at the time). She said that once this lady passed away they would get football but not until then. As I said just what I heard.


I also heard that from an ALUM ...

Seems the lady had a family member that was severly injurred playing football ... I am thinking grandson?

[yosef1969]

I also heard that from an ALUM ...

Seems the lady had a family member that was severly injurred playing football ... I am thinking grandson?

it's not true, just an urban legend...

[asu7]

it's not true, just an urban legend...

LOL DANG ALUMS THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING xlolx xlolx xlolx

o well we can't be right all the time can we ;)xnodx xrotatehx :D

[yosef1969]

LOL DANG ALUMS THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING xlolx xlolx xlolx

o well we can't be right all the time can we ;)xnodx xrotatehx :D

I shooting 50%. xnodx I heard the same rumor for years, guess they needed some other excuse besides chancellor and AD didn't want football.

[asu7]

I shooting 50%. xnodx I heard the same rumor for years, guess they needed some other excuse besides chancellor and AD didn't want football.

lol 50% is good ...

they should get football ... I bet they play their games at BOA stadium ... would love to see the APPS play there ...

[asu7]

as for the topic ... yes we will move but I don't know when ...

will it be for the best ... who knows?

will it be to a decent conference ... who knows?

A couple of things I do know is I will still back my neers ... and I will go to the games regardless ... Sun belt or CUSA I am there ... I was an APP fan before 2005 :)

[appfan2008]

I am definately against a move up today... 10 years I will be all for it... GO APPS

[Kill'em]

WUTNDITWAA, I love the signature! It is great that we are in the same company as the Yankees and Cowboys! Except for the absolute truth in the statement. xbawlingx

[ASU]

It would be interesting to know what percentage of such a move is probable.....and the things standing in the way of each.

xeekx

[WUTNDITWAA]

WUTNDITWAA, I love the signature! It is great that we are in the same company as the Yankees and Cowboys! Except for the absolute truth in the statement. xbawlingx


Thanks. Dang nice avatar.xnodx

[JMUDuke2002]

I am surprised that JMU has not been brought into this conversation, especially considering the stadium expansion plan announced and the future phases of increasing the size to 40,000. Virginia is ripe for another FBS school, since we only have two currently and we produce quite a bit of talent.

[asu7]

I am surprised that JMU has not been brought into this conversation, especially considering the stadium expansion plan announced and the future phases of increasing the size to 40,000. Virginia is ripe for another FBS school, since we only have two currently and we produce quite a bit of talent.


It would be cool if ...

JMU .. ASU ... GSU and some others could form a conference

[henfan]

I am surprised that JMU has not been brought into this conversation, especially considering the stadium expansion plan announced and the future phases of increasing the size to 40,000. Virginia is ripe for another FBS school, since we only have two currently and we produce quite a bit of talent.

JMU's CEO just said that JMU is not interested in FBS FB any time in the forseeable future. IMO, a lot has to fall JMU's way for them to be an FBS candidate in the next 15-20 years.

[JMUDuke2002]

JMU's CEO just said that JMU is not interested in FBS FB any time in the forseeable future. IMO, a lot has to fall JMU's way for them to be an FBS candidate in the next 15-20 years.


I doubt it is 15 to 20 years. The our president stated he would not be the one to do it. He is also in his mid-50s and isn't expected to stay more than 5 to 10 years. But, like I have said...you do not plan on 40K plus seats to be built and expect to be in FCS.

[AppMan]

I am definately against a move up today... 10 years I will be all for it... GO APPS

I am curious to know why ten years will change your mind.

[Pauly LB]

Err, why would a team that's a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Sky consider moving to FBS? xconfusedx

Is this not obvious -- moving to FBS (Division 1A) would allow them to lose at a higher level !!!xeyebrowx

[henfan]

I doubt it is 15 to 20 years. The our president stated he would not be the one to do it. He is also in his mid-50s and isn't expected to stay more than 5 to 10 years. But, like I have said...you do not plan on 40K plus seats to be built and expect to be in FCS.

I have no doubts whatsoever. 10-15 years was a conservative estimate, assuming everything falls JMU's way.

It's exciting that JMU has big plans for improving its athletic facilities but some people are getting more than a little carried away. Realistically, it's foolish to assume anything beyond JMU's immediate plans, which do not include FBS FB, 40K-seat expansion or any athletic affiliation beyond the CAA.

With all due respect, you seem to have little understanding of what it takes to reclassify an entire athletics department. It's an institutional committment that takes a lot of years and serious funding to pull off, assuming you want to do it right. There's a lot more to it than having blueprints for a 40K seat FB stadium. BTW, Delaware State also has blueprints for a 40K seat stadium and FBS FB.

And as much as some might ponder about new NCAA D-I conferences forming, when was the last time that happened? The way the D-I FB & hoops post-seasons are set-up, it's darn near impossible for new conferences to get immediate access to bids and revenue sharing. This stuff is fun for the purposes of message board speculation, but not good for much else really.

[GannonFan]

I have no doubts whatsoever. 10-15 years was a conservative estimate, assuming everything falls JMU's way.

It's exciting that JMU has big plans for improving its athletic facilities but some people are getting more than a little carried away. Realistically, it's foolish to assume anything beyond JMU's immediate plans, which do not include FBS FB, 40K-seat expansion or any athletic affiliation beyond the CAA.

With all due respect, you seem to have little understanding of what it takes to reclassify an entire athletics department. It's an institutional committment that takes a lot of years and serious funding to pull off, assuming you want to do it right. There's a lot more to it than having blueprints for a 40K seat FB stadium. BTW, Delaware State also has blueprints for a 40K seat stadium and FBS FB.

And as much as some might ponder about new NCAA D-I conferences forming, when was the last time that happened? The way the D-I FB & hoops post-seasons are set-up, it's darn near impossible for new conferences to get immediate access to bids and revenue sharing. This stuff is fun for the purposes of message board speculation, but not good for much else really.

Agreed, good post. xthumbsupx

[AppGrad06]

I for one am not opposed to ASU moving up to FBS nor am I 100% for it. Right now ASU is hot and attendance is through the roof as well as revenue. However, if we move up we will end up in some mid-major conference and go largely unnoticed by the FBS powerhouse schools when it comes to scheduling and and we will end up going though some lean years. The only way I could see to avoid this would be to build up other programs like basketball and stay hot in football so that we offer a more "total" package and possibly snagging a bid from a stronger conference like the ACC or Big East. Though I'm not terribly optimistic about that happening.

[yosef1969]

And as much as some might ponder about new NCAA D-I conferences forming, when was the last time that happened? The way the D-I FB & hoops post-seasons are set-up, it's darn near impossible for new conferences to get immediate access to bids and revenue sharing. This stuff is fun for the purposes of message board speculation, but not good for much else really.[/QUOTE]

I realize this response wasn't directed at my post but it illustrates a common occurence on this forum that I'd like to point out. It's a tone that comes across as condescending, suggesting that if a fan is a proponent of his program moving to D-IA he simply doesn't understand or isn't informed or to put it bluntly, he's ignorant. I don't intend to be argumentative or single out your post. As I stated I just wanted to make a point. Admittedly I don't have all of the answers but I am willing to venture a guess that no one on this message board does either. It just seems to me that if you don't agree with a post, simply reply with your opinion it is necessary to belittle the other posters opinion.

Regarding the prospect of formation of a new conference, FWIW, I don't think anyone said immediate anything and in my opinion given the right opportunity, taking a few lumps along the way is expected and okay. Maybe it never happens, but new conferences have continued to be formed in the past and they've needed programs to join.

But to answer your question (highlighted above), technically the last time a new D-IA conference was formed was 2001 with the Sun Belt. Prior to that it was the Mountain West in 1999, Conference USA in 1996 and the Big East in 1991.

To insinuate that the conference structure is set and that speculating on new conference alignments is pointless, is simply, well too simple. In fact IMHO we're overdue for a D-I conference realignment! xnodx

How much longer do you suspect that Conference USA will exist in it's current structure? The SunBelt? Or even the Big East? These conferences have genuine geographical issues that have put them in jeoparpy as they stand today.

I have no idea what the future hold for programs like ASU, JMU, GSU or UMASS where discussions regarding a move to FBS repeatedly surface. But to dismiss it as too difficult or all but an impossibility is like saying the debate on global warming is over.xnodx

[ASU]

And as much as some might ponder about new NCAA D-I conferences forming, when was the last time that happened? The way the D-I FB & hoops post-seasons are set-up, it's darn near impossible for new conferences to get immediate access to bids and revenue sharing. This stuff is fun for the purposes of message board speculation, but not good for much else really.

I realize this response wasn't directed at my post but it illustrates a common occurence on this forum that I'd like to point out. It's a tone that comes across as condescending, suggesting that if a fan is a proponent of his program moving to D-IA he simply doesn't understand or isn't informed or to put it bluntly, he's ignorant. I don't intend to be argumentative or single out your post. As I stated I just wanted to make a point. Admittedly I don't have all of the answers but I am willing to venture a guess that no one on this message board does either. It just seems to me that if you don't agree with a post, simply reply with your opinion it is necessary to belittle the other posters opinion.

Regarding the prospect of formation of a new conference, FWIW, I don't think anyone said immediate anything and in my opinion given the right opportunity, taking a few lumps along the way is expected and okay. Maybe it never happens, but new conferences have continued to be formed in the past and they've needed programs to join.

But to answer your question (highlighted above), technically the last time a new D-IA conference was formed was 2001 with the Sun Belt. Prior to that it was the Mountain West in 1999, Conference USA in 1996 and the Big East in 1991.

To insinuate that the conference structure is set and that speculating on new conference alignments is pointless, is simply, well too simple. In fact IMHO we're overdue for a D-I conference realignment! xnodx

How much longer do you suspect that Conference USA will exist in it's current structure? The SunBelt? Or even the Big East? These conferences have genuine geographical issues that have put them in jeoparpy as they stand today.

I have no idea what the future hold for programs like ASU, JMU, GSU or UMASS where discussions regarding a move to FBS repeatedly surface. But to dismiss it as too difficult or all but an impossibility is like saying the debate on global warming is over.xnodx[/QUOTE]

If anyone ever says never.....then that is when it happens.

[UDBlueLotFan]

I have no doubts whatsoever. 10-15 years was a conservative estimate, assuming everything falls JMU's way.

It's exciting that JMU has big plans for improving its athletic facilities but some people are getting more than a little carried away. Realistically, it's foolish to assume anything beyond JMU's immediate plans, which do not include FBS FB, 40K-seat expansion or any athletic affiliation beyond the CAA.

With all due respect, you seem to have little understanding of what it takes to reclassify an entire athletics department. It's an institutional committment that takes a lot of years and serious funding to pull off, assuming you want to do it right. There's a lot more to it than having blueprints for a 40K seat FB stadium. BTW, Delaware State also has blueprints for a 40K seat stadium and FBS FB.

And as much as some might ponder about new NCAA D-I conferences forming, when was the last time that happened? The way the D-I FB & hoops post-seasons are set-up, it's darn near impossible for new conferences to get immediate access to bids and revenue sharing. This stuff is fun for the purposes of message board speculation, but not good for much else really.

...and it will end up like FAMU's attempt. xnodx But, if not, get them on on schedule so we can chalk up a IA-win! xthumbsupx

[henfan]

Yosef'69, I didn't intend for my post to be condescending. I just wanted to interject a little sanity into the proceedings, especially as it relates to the formation of new conferences.

Often times on this message board, people throw stuff at the proverbial wall without putting too much thought behind it. It's easy to spot. Whenever someone begins discussing FB conference re-alignments & formations without considering many of the other factors that go into institutional affiliations, alarms should go off. Sorry if it seems like I'm peeing on the fire but I just find these types of discussions a huge bore.

If you look at recent conference formations, you'll understand they didn't happen in a vaccum and are indeed very, very rare occurances- not impossible, just rare. (BTW, the Sun Belt formed in 1976.) These rare events aren't driven exclusively by one sport and, more recently, were the result of groups of schools moving from one league to another (WAC schools to the MWC and Metro & Great Midwest schools to CUSA.) As you know, the situation with NCAA D-I Olympic sport autobids and FB bowls is much different than it was a decade ago.

So, if anyone wants to discuss potential new conferences forming down the line, let's talk about it. But let's also discuss and not completely ignore the other common sense elements that impact these type of decisions. What's the point otherwise?

[Chad4Life]

But to answer your question (highlighted above), technically the last time a new D-IA conference was formed was 2001 with the Sun Belt. Prior to that it was the Mountain West in 1999, Conference USA in 1996 and the Big East in 1991.
To insinuate that the conference structure is set and that speculating on new conference alignments is pointless, is simply, well too simple. In fact IMHO we're overdue for a D-I conference realignment! xnodx

How much longer do you suspect that Conference USA will exist in it's current structure? The SunBelt? Or even the Big East? These conferences have genuine geographical issues that have put them in jeoparpy as they stand today.

I have no idea what the future hold for programs like ASU, JMU, GSU or UMASS where discussions regarding a move to FBS repeatedly surface. But to dismiss it as too difficult or all but an impossibility is like saying the debate on global warming is over.xnodx[/QUOTE]

Technically, all of the conferences that you mentioned were either Basketball only conferences for a number of years and then football was added as a conference sport (Sun Belt, Big East, Great Midwest/Metro merger into CUSA) or a split off from an existing conference (16 team WAC divides into MWC and WAC.) And when the MWC became a seperate conference, there was some consternation with regard to the basketball auto-bid.

Does the basketball membership want a 32nd conference? Does the current FBS membership want another football conference? I do think that, as you insinuate, there may be further movement at the top (specifically the Big East and the division between the football/basketball and basketball only schools.) However, if a school is willing to move to the FBS without conference affiliation, is that school prepared to remain independent for a number of years? What effect would that have on their other sports? Can their other sports survive being an independent or would they have to join another conference? For example, would Georgia Southern be happy being a FBS independent and a member of the Atlantic Sun conference or would they be better off being FCS and staying in the Southern Conference? Would they be able to stay in the Southern Conference even if their football program wasn't a member?

[dbackjon]

But to answer your question (highlighted above), technically the last time a new D-IA conference was formed was 2001 with the Sun Belt. Prior to that it was the Mountain West in 1999, Conference USA in 1996 and the Big East in 1991.



The key is when did a brand new ALL-sports conference form?

ASU can't move to I-A and stay in the Southern. The other league members won't allow it - they will get the ETSU treatment. The SunBelt was an existing all-sports conference that added football as a conference sport. Mountain West was the result of a split of the WAC - and under NCAA rules at the time, only had to wait two years for an auto-bid to the NCAA basketball tournament. The Big East was an existing conference that added football. C-USA was formed in 1995 out of the ashes of the Metro confernce, and again, only had to wait for two years to get auto-bid to NCAA basketball tournament.

A conference like you are suggesting would have to wait 5 years in limbo before becoming eligible for the Big Dance, which makes the likelihood of this happening slim to none.

[I-AA Fan]

It is always non-football that sports that determine these things. Look at how UConn was able to muscle there way into not only IA, but a big-6 conference at that. It is a lot easier to to say that you are going to take your back-to-back women's national championship team, and last year's mens national champ (this was a few years ago) if you do not accept our football program. Which is exactly what they did.

[Husky Alum]

UConn didn't "muscle" anything. They had a I-AA program in the A-10 and as a member of the Big East, when they decided to upgrade their program to FBS, they were already a member and while they played an indy schedule for a couple of years, IIRC, they didn't have to "apply" to the Big East. Conference affiliation was never an issue with UConn. They were in the Big East, their invite was set.

I think Villanova, as one of the first members of the league as a similar "invitation". I'm not sure if a school like say Marquette, has a similar option (not saying MU is adding football, just using a recent example) - but Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's likely have that option - but they'll likely never use it.

Just as Georgia State, George Mason, Old Dominion, etc. won't have to "apply" to the CAA to play football.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

JMU is simply posturing to be in the position to move up should the opportunity arise. No time horizon and a lot of ambiguities from the people who run the athletics department of JMU.

JMU's greatest asset is its greatest barrier to moving up - the CAA. It's a great conference in many sports, dominant in some of the lesser known sports, and overall has many in-state rivalries and regional rivalries that bring with them years of history.

It's not about moving away from FCS to FBS, it's about alienating the rest of their sports from this otherwise perfect conference for JMU.

Beyond this, every CAA fan (JMU's fanbase included) will go on and on about how poor the alumni giving is at JMU and the typical too many females at the school reasons for this. In truth, JMU has many wealthy alumni, but the school has not figured out how to market itself effectively and tap into that wealth.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

UConn didn't "muscle" anything. They had a I-AA program in the A-10 and as a member of the Big East, when they decided to upgrade their program to FBS, they were already a member and while they played an indy schedule for a couple of years, IIRC, they didn't have to "apply" to the Big East. Conference affiliation was never an issue with UConn. They were in the Big East, their invite was set.

I think Villanova, as one of the first members of the league as a similar "invitation". I'm not sure if a school like say Marquette, has a similar option (not saying MU is adding football, just using a recent example) - but Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's likely have that option - but they'll likely never use it.

Just as Georgia State, George Mason, Old Dominion, etc. won't have to "apply" to the CAA to play football.

Yes. The Big East extended invitations to ALL of it's members: if you upgrade, you are in. Uconn took it while Nova, Georgetown, and St. Johns passed.

As for changes...

I think if the Sunbelt teams improve, you could see some shifting with the membership between them and CUSA. Since CUSA has made it's Texas shift, schools like ECU and Marshall are a bit out of place. This could lead to homes for the upgrades in texas, charlotte and potentially any socon upgrades.


Current CUSA:
East Carolina
Houston
Marshall
Memphis
Rice
Southern Methodist
Southern Miss
Tulane
Tulsa
UAB
UCF
UTEP


Current Sunbelt:
Arkansas State
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Middle Tennessee
North Texas
Troy

Wildcards:
Texas St.
Lamar
Charlotte
LA Tech - they want in CUSA and in all liklihood would get the invite if there were an opening (like UTEP to the MWC).

[ngineer]

Anyone out there hear anything about University of Detroit Mercy's plans for football? Their new stadium design seems to be planned for football in the near future? D-III or FCS?

[ngineer]

Noticing Indiana (PA) on the list...Has there been something written that they're looking to leave the PSC??

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

...and where. You're not going to move up as an Independent. What conferences would accept the Eagles? Or do they try to convince 7 other teams to move up with them and create a new conference? And would it be a FB-only alliance, or all-sports?

...and would GSU faithful be happy with 6 NC titles from now through eternity?...

I'm pretty sure the Sun Belt or Conference USA would take us. But personally, I'd take an FCS national championship over a conference championships in any conference except for the SEC, ACC, Big X, Big XII, and Pac 10. And I would much rather travel to a nationally televised FCS national championship than travel to watch my team play in a crappy, regionally televised bowl game at noon on a weekday.

[UAalum72]

Anyone out there hear anything about University of Detroit Mercy's plans for football? Their new stadium design seems to be planned for football in the near future? D-III or FCS?
Can't be D-III, UDM is Division I. PFL, maybe. Doesn't look like the soccer field has many seats.

[Franks Tanks]

Noticing Indiana (PA) on the list...Has there been something written that they're looking to leave the PSC??

I have only heard message board rumors, never any statement by the school or anyone connected to it

[nwFL Griz]

I'm pretty sure the Sun Belt or Conference USA would take us. But personally, I'd take an FCS national championship over a conference championships in any conference except for the SEC, ACC, Big X, Big XII, and Pac 10. And I would much rather travel to a nationally televised FCS national championship than travel to watch my team play in a crappy, regionally televised bowl game at noon on a weekday.

Only problem is, there are no regionally televised bowl games. Every bowl game is carried by a national network. Most are on ESPN or ESPN2. The only bowl games with limited television are the Texas Bowl and the Insight Bowl, which are on the NFL Network.

Also bowl games are not played during the day, except on weekends, Dec 31 and Jan 1. Specifically to allow fans to watch their teams.

However, I understand the point you were making, and I agree with the thought. Realistically, most of the FCS teams who could move up are looking at the New Orleans Bowl at best. Well, maybe the International Bowl!xlolx

[rufus]

BTW, Delaware State also has blueprints for a 40K seat stadium and FBS FB.
Has Delaware State hired a construction company to start the construction of their proposed stadium? JMU has recently solicited bids for construction of the stadium (all three phases up to 40k). The bidding has closed, but the contract has not yet been awarded. You can expect a construction firm to be selected by the end of April. The request of proposals is published on the Virgina procurement website.

https://vendor.epro.cgipdc.com/webapp/VSSAPPX/Advantage

I love that the default response from any Delaware fan is "look at Delaware State". Sure DSU has plans that will probably never come to fruition, but plenty of other schools develop plans and follow through. I guess we shall see for JMU.

[ericsaid]

Yeah i'm sure if Ga Southern or Appalachian moved up(the two most likely in the SoCon), that they wouldn't go to a non-BCS conference.