Sacred Heart - FCS Independent

[aceinthehole]

https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/1750611317730480500

[DFW HOYA]

Where do they land? Barring a major course correction from the MEAC, I'd guess....Big South/OVC.

This would leave the NEC at six:

Central Connecticut
Duquesne
LIU
St Francis
Stonehill
Wagner

[downbythebeach]

Sacred Heart has been raising their athletic profile. They certainly have better facilities and game days than some of the newer CAA teams. Check out their new hockey stadium on YouTube. But Merrimack is pretty crummy even for the NEC so I don’t know where they land. Like I can’t imagine the CAA would want them and they are in Mass so kind of geographically isolated.

[UNHWildcat18]

Their football facilities are awful and neither are capable of making them significantly nicer IMHO. I think its Big South or INDY for a longgggg time, unless the NEC allows them to come back as associates down the road.

[aceinthehole]

Where do they land? Barring a major course correction from the MEAC, I'd guess....Big South/OVC.

This would leave the NEC at six:

Central Connecticut
Duquesne
LIU
St Francis
Stonehill
Wagner

SHU and Merrimack will likely remain stuck as FCS Independents for at least a couple years, until there is a bigger shakeup in FCS (such as America East football). They likely aren't going to want to join the BigSouth/OVC without RMU and Bryant (Monmouth or SBU) there anymore.

The NEC will have 7 members going forward (Bobby Mo rejoins NEC football this fall). That's an even 6-game league slate for all members. Add FBS and D-II games, and you can schedule the remaining FCS games among the PL/Ivy/MEAC/CAA.

[taper]

Don't think it'll happen, but there's been surprisingly little news about how the Summit League has started the clock on the 2 year grace period for dropping below sponsorship requirements. Adding SHU and Merrimack as FB affiliates gets us to 6 and solves our problem. Creates some new problems, but that's something future us have to deal with.

[ST_Lawson]

Don't think it'll happen, but there's been surprisingly little news about how the Summit League has started the clock on the 2 year grace period for dropping below sponsorship requirements. Adding SHU and Merrimack as FB affiliates gets us to 6 and solves our problem. Creates some new problems, but that's something future us have to deal with.

Maybe I'm just confused about what you're saying. Summit League doesn't sponsor football, so you wouldn't be adding SHU and Merrimack as FB affiliates.

I think the CAA Football splitting up and adding SHU and Merrimack is more likely. That'd be 17 total football-playing teams. Split it into 8 and 9-team conferences.

[taper]

Maybe I'm just confused about what you're saying. Summit League doesn't sponsor football, so you wouldn't be adding SHU and Merrimack as FB affiliates.

I think the CAA Football splitting up and adding SHU and Merrimack is more likely. That'd be 17 total football-playing teams. Split it into 8 and 9-team conferences.
The whole point of this scenario is Summit adding football to get back to the required number of sponsored sports.

[Dane96]

Sacred Heart has been raising their athletic profile. They certainly have better facilities and game days than some of the newer CAA teams. Check out their new hockey stadium on YouTube. But Merrimack is pretty crummy even for the NEC so I don’t know where they land. Like I can’t imagine the CAA would want them and they are in Mass so kind of geographically isolated.

Agree they are raising their profile however, there isn't a single CAA football team that SHU's stadium would hold a candle to. Even Bryant's setup "pre-expansion" is light years better. If SHU built a stadium (not sure they have room) I can see maybe some interest if the CAA North ever broke up. MAYBE. That said, SHU wants the PL...it's not even a secret.

[Dane96]

Maybe I'm just confused about what you're saying. Summit League doesn't sponsor football, so you wouldn't be adding SHU and Merrimack as FB affiliates.

I think the CAA Football splitting up and adding SHU and Merrimack is more likely. That'd be 17 total football-playing teams. Split it into 8 and 9-team conferences.

There is ZERO interest from the five northern schools to adding SHU or Merrimack even if the breakup happens (heard it from direct, high place sources at four of the five schools...and I think the fifth would likely float the same way). Bryant is trying to separate itself from both Merrimack and SHU.

[Baron Sardonicus]

The NEC will have 7 members going forward (Bobby Mo rejoins NEC football this fall). That's an even 6-game league slate for all members. Add FBS and D-II games, and you can schedule the remaining FCS games among the PL/Ivy/MEAC/CAA.

Plus Chicago State in '25 or '26, if fundraising goes well.

[aceinthehole]

Plus Chicago State in '25 or '26, if fundraising goes well.

Yes, Chicago State is joining the NEC next year 2024-25 and that will bring the league to 8 basketball teams, including the 2 transitioning programs (Stonehill and Le Moyne). However, there is no expectation that Chicago State will play football in the NEC.

If CSU does start a team, I think they are going non-scholarship and will be seeking Pioneer membership. NEC has no issues with that outcome.

[Go...gate]

I have often wondered if the New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT} might sponsor Division I football. Unfortunately, the destruction of Newark's Bears and Eagles Stadium in 2019 eliminated the logical place to play.

[aceinthehole]

I have often wondered if the New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT} might sponsor Division I football. Unfortunately, the destruction of Newark's Bears and Eagles Stadium in 2019 eliminated the logical place to play.

Also very unlikely because NJIT has Title IX challenges (75% male enrollment). They already struggle to sponsor womens teams and football would put them further in the wrong direction on scholarships.

[KPSUL]

Both teams, Sacred Heart and Merrimack, should have stayed put in the NEC.

[crusader11]

How are they going to piece together a full schedule at this point?

Best of seven series against Merrimack?

[mainejeff]

Not sure what the big attraction of the MAAC is/was considering both schools have football and hockey....and both want their athletic programs to grow. To me the MAAC is a dead end. They could have stayed in the NEC and had a much easier path to NCAA men's basketball tourney bids. I don't think that Quinnpiac or Fairfield are very long for the MAAC either which will further erode that league.

[aceinthehole]

Not sure what the big attraction of the MAAC is/was considering both schools have football and hockey....and both want their athletic programs to grow. To me the MAAC is a dead end. They could have stayed in the NEC and had a much easier path to NCAA men's basketball tourney bids. I don't think that Quinnpiac or Fairfield are very long for the MAAC either which will further erode that league.

I agree the MAAC isn't great at all, but it's the same reason Monmouth, Quinnipiac, RMU, Mt. St. Mary's and Bryant left the league - NEC basketball is awful. Even if QU/FU leave, the MAAC is considered a step-up from the NEC. It not always about metrics, it is more about history and perception. They all rather play in a league with Iona and Siena than LIU and St. Francis.

Monmouth parlayed the MAAC into an eventual CAA invite. Bryant also left for a non-football conference and found a home as CAA Football. RMU joined the Horizon and was eventually invited back for NEC football.

Also, winning the NEC basketball AQ isn't that easy. Quinnipiac never did it. Either or both SHU/Merrimack will leave without winning (CCSU is the current favorite). Bryant won just once (in its final year), in a very down NEC.

Even I am begging and hoping for CCSU to get out of the NEC and join America East. I'm willing to park football as an Indy and work toward CAA or AE Football.

[UNHWildcat18]

There is ZERO interest from the five northern schools to adding SHU or Merrimack even if the breakup happens (heard it from direct, high place sources at four of the five schools...and I think the fifth would likely float the same way). Bryant is trying to separate itself from both Merrimack and SHU.

Couldn’t be happier to hear that. I Want nothing to do with either school in terms of being conference mates for football. I’d welcome MC to Durham as an OOC game as it’s good to support our HE brethren, other than that I’ll pass..

[JacksFan40]

The whole point of this scenario is Summit adding football to get back to the required number of sponsored sports.
I don’t think any of us want Summit League football with SHU and Merrimack, the MVFC is a far better fit.

[taper]

I don’t think any of us want Summit League football with SHU and Merrimack, the MVFC is a far better fit.
Obviously nobody on either side wants this, but right now the alternative is the Summit ceasing to exist and SHU/Merrimack struggling to fill a schedule. It's not like the SL hasn't been an island of misfits before.

[Go...gate]

Are Sacred Heart and Merrimack 45-scholarship programs?

[aceinthehole]

Are Sacred Heart and Merrimack 45-scholarship programs?

They are both "bowl counters," so they must have a 2-year average of at least 56.7 equivalencies, but I don't know their exact mix of schollys/grants.

My basic understanding of current NEC football guidelines are:

- No minimums
- Can offer a combo of scholarships and/or grants-in-aid
- NEC schollys max is 60, but up to NCAA max 63 equivalencies

[DFW HOYA]

They are both "bowl counters," so they must have a 2-year average of at least 56.7 equivalencies, but I don't know their exact mix of schollys/grants.

My basic understanding of current NEC football guidelines are:

- No minimums
- Can offer a combo of scholarships and/or grants-in-aid
- NEC schollys max is 60, but up to NCAA max 63 equivalencies


Are all NEC schools bowl counters?

[aceinthehole]

Are all NEC schools bowl counters?

Right now, everyone except Stonehill is a bowl counter, but they have already scheduled a FBS game for 2027 (Miami, OH)

SHU (UConn) and Merrimack (UMass) just played their first-ever FBS games this season (2023).

Wagner has been playing FBS games each season since 2012.

CCSU has played FBS teams annually since 2017 and was the first NEC team to play a FBS game in 2007 (as a non-counter).

Duquesne (2014); Robert Morris (2019); Saint Francis (2020); LIU (2021)


Most FBS games are vs. MAC and Independent opponents, but there have been some vs. P5 schools:

Wagner - Syracuse (2x), Boston College, Miami (FL)
CCSU - Syracuse, Miami (FL)
LIU - West Virginia, Baylor, TCU (2024)
Duquesne - TCU, Florida State, West Virgina, Boston College (2024)

[Go...gate]

They are both "bowl counters," so they must have a 2-year average of at least 56.7 equivalencies, but I don't know their exact mix of schollys/grants.

My basic understanding of current NEC football guidelines are:

- No minimums
- Can offer a combo of scholarships and/or grants-in-aid
- NEC schollys max is 60, but up to NCAA max 63 equivalencies

Thanks. I recall that they played Colgate in 2012.

[Bisonator]

Don't think it'll happen, but there's been surprisingly little news about how the Summit League has started the clock on the 2 year grace period for dropping below sponsorship requirements. Adding SHU and Merrimack as FB affiliates gets us to 6 and solves our problem. Creates some new problems, but that's something future us have to deal with.


Obviously nobody on either side wants this, but right now the alternative is the Summit ceasing to exist and SHU/Merrimack struggling to fill a schedule. It's not like the SL hasn't been an island of misfits before.

The SL is not adding SHU or Merrimack! That would be more then an island for ****s sakes! WTF have you been smoking?

[Sitting Bull]

I don’t understand why either would would exit the NEC. It is the perfect spot for their programs, particularly football. It’s not like they have better options waiting out there.

[mainejeff]

I don’t understand why either would would exit the NEC. It is the perfect spot for their programs, particularly football. It’s not like they have better options waiting out there.

Agreed. Hockey and football are the top 2 sports at these schools. Joining the MAAC does nothing for either sport. They could have grown their programs in the NEC and maybe eventually parlay their success and growth into something beyond the football-less MAAC.

[clenz]

The SL is not adding SHU or Merrimack! That would be more then an island for ****s sakes! WTF have you been smoking?
I could be wrong - but doesn't a league, at the FCS level, need 6 full time all sports members to qualify as a AQ sport for a league to use is as one of the AQ counters? The MVFC, CAA, Big-OVC, WACSUN etc. are all football only leagues so they can/do affiliate member all they want without having 6 from a single conference,

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD

Merrimack - Affiliate
SH - Affiliate


Which goes back to a question I've asked and been screamed at by SL fans for years about me just being scared of the Summit, who are you adding for those 3? I saw 3 because if you add 2 to get to 6 full, that is 11 total and that's a strange number to work with, though you could. You'd probably want to add 3 to get to 12. Who are those 3? If you add those 3 with football you then have no reason to add the east coast schools which defeats the entire purpose of the exercise about adding them as affiliates.

WIU is now gone gone from the idea of SLF that was out there before. They are OVC and not coming back. They seem to be adjusting to life there pretty well, and I think we'll see the same play out with football moving forward.

SUU?
UNC?
NAU?
UTU?
SFA?
UC Davis?
Weber?
UST has zero interest in scholarship football

I'd guess SUU, UNC, and NAU are your most likely targets, but I don't think they are in a big rush to leave the Big Sky, or WAC in SUU's and UTU case as they just joined it.

You aren't pulling Missouri State from the Valley - they are closer to SBC/AAC/MWC than they are Summit for moving. You aren't pulling UNI, ISUr, ISUb, SIU, Murray out of the Valley either - though the approach to Murray would be funny as hell given how they were treated by the Dakota admin and fans for joining the MVC/MVFC.

[Bisonator]

I could be wrong - but doesn't a league, at the FCS level, need 6 full time all sports members to qualify as a AQ sport for a league to use is as one of the AQ counters? The MVFC, CAA, Big-OVC, WACSUN etc. are all football only leagues so they can/do affiliate member all they want without having 6 from a single conference,

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD

Merrimack - Affiliate
SH - Affiliate


Which goes back to a question I've asked and been screamed at by SL fans for years about me just being scared of the Summit, who are you adding for those 3? I saw 3 because if you add 2 to get to 6 full, that is 11 total and that's a strange number to work with, though you could. You'd probably want to add 3 to get to 12. Who are those 3? If you add those 3 with football you then have no reason to add the east coast schools which defeats the entire purpose of the exercise about adding them as affiliates.

WIU is now gone gone from the idea of SLF that was out there before. They are OVC and not coming back. They seem to be adjusting to life there pretty well, and I think we'll see the same play out with football moving forward.

SUU?
UNC?
NAU?
UTU?
SFA?
UC Davis?
Weber?
UST has zero interest in scholarship football

I'd guess SUU, UNC, and NAU are your most likely targets, but I don't think they are in a big rush to leave the Big Sky, or WAC in SUU's and UTU case as they just joined it.

You aren't pulling Missouri State from the Valley - they are closer to SBC/AAC/MWC than they are Summit for moving. You aren't pulling UNI, ISUr, ISUb, SIU, Murray out of the Valley either - though the approach to Murray would be funny as hell given how they were treated by the Dakota admin and fans for joining the MVC/MVFC.
Don't know, don't care. Just responding to Taper's idiotic post about adding SHU/Merrimac. Frankly hoping we are out of the SL sooner rather than later but we sure as hell aren't supporting adding 2 schools from the east coast just to keep it alive! **** THAT!

[clenz]

Don't know, don't care. Just responding to Taper's idiotic post about adding SHU/Merrimac. Frankly hoping we are out of the SL sooner rather than later but we sure as hell aren't supporting adding 2 schools from the east coast just to keep it alive! **** THAT!
Right. I wasn't meaning to respond to you directly, per se. It was just you were the most recent post and had quoted both posts. I'm also 99% sure because everything the SLF idea comes up there is the idea the MVFC would die and I mention the Valley would be just fine and always use the "We existed before you, we will exist after you" line because with Murray we have 6 teams from the Valley and 1 from the Horizon so we still have an automatic bid even without the Summit schools, and we have the ability to affiliate out the others, and programs like Merrimack, SH, RMU, etc. are proof of that. Even WIU if the OVC deal goes sideways with football somehow and they need an affiliate home, they'd be welcomed back with massive smiles and hugs.

I also have to admit that it would be funny as hell for the Dakota 4 go to after programs like Sacred Heart and Merrimack after the absolute **** fits thrown by fans and admin about Murray State in terms of geography and "they suck, why are we adding **** programs"

I get there is some difference in Murray wasn't needed to survive, entirely, and those two would be a "we have to because the conference clock is literally ticking".

Ironically, if anything the SL schools trying it makes MVFC "better" for UNI. The Dakota 4 are gone but we are at 6 still (which doesn't matter for the MVFC) plus YSU at 7 so we keep the autobid as a standalone league anyway. We take on Merrimack and Sacred Heart for affiliates to get to 9, which is the best number to have anyway. Robert Morris has also had very very basic conversations with the MVFC to be an affiliate as well a few years back so we could still be at 10 as well.

The Northeast is just an absolutely cluster **** of schools, conferences, affiliations, etc. I don't think there is a good answer for any of them. Ironically the issues all exist because the CAAFC exists and was created to solve the issue of "these schools need a home since their league doesn't have football"

[mainejeff]

The Northeast is just an absolutely cluster **** of schools, conferences, affiliations, etc. I don't think there is a good answer for any of them. Ironically the issues all exist because the CAAFC exists and was created to solve the issue of "these schools need a home since their league doesn't have football"

There is a good answer for some. America East Football would bring together Maine, UNH, Albany & Bryant under 1 league and tight regional umbrella....affiliate possibilities are URI (likely), Villanova (possibly) and Richmond (unlikely). In addition AE currently stands at only 9 all-sport members....Stony Brook, Monmouth and Towson are possibilities as all sport adds. And of course Merrimack and Sacred Heart would pounce on this opportunity if they were offered football affiliation.

[taper]

Don't know, don't care. Just responding to Taper's idiotic post about adding SHU/Merrimac. Frankly hoping we are out of the SL sooner rather than later but we sure as hell aren't supporting adding 2 schools from the east coast just to keep it alive! **** THAT!
I don't get the hostility towards me. I openly said this probably wouldn't happen and nobody wants it, but the fact is all parties have a need the other fills. We're rapidly approaching the point where beggars can't be choosers. One of your other choices is Chicago St and Augustana, which I don't think are better. The Summit had several east coast affiliates until the late 90's so it's not unprecedented.
I hope you're not one of those people that think the reason we're not FBS is our AD is lazy and that if the Summit collapses the FBS conferences will be lining up with open arms.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I don’t understand why either would would exit the NEC. It is the perfect spot for their programs, particularly football. It’s not like they have better options waiting out there.

The NEC is that inept and mismanaged. It is a decaying conference that no school with any resemblance of ambition wishes to stay a member.

[aceinthehole]

There is a good answer for some. America East Football would bring together Maine, UNH, Albany & Bryant under 1 league and tight regional umbrella....affiliate possibilities are URI (likely), Villanova (possibly) and Richmond (unlikely). In addition AE currently stands at only 9 all-sport members....Stony Brook, Monmouth and Towson are possibilities as all sport adds. And of course Merrimack and Sacred Heart would pounce on this opportunity if they were offered football affiliation.

First, the AE should just add CCSU to get America East to 10 members (18-game basketball schedule). :)

Then the AE would have 5 football members (Albany, Bryant, CCSU, Maine, New Hampshire) + URI is a lock for #6.

At that point, you prioritize the regional schools available (SBU, Towson, 'Nova, Holy Cross, Fordham, Richmond, Merrimack, SHU) and invite more associates as needed.

[aceinthehole]

The NEC is that inept and mismanaged. It is a decaying conference that no school with any resemblance of ambition wishes to stay a member.


Yep. Doesn't everyone remember that Monmouth, RMU, and Bryant have all previously left the NEC for a non-football conference. This is a clear pattern and the schools are making the decision for reasons other than football. They know the consequences and don't care, because the NEC is just that bad.

The NEC is a transitional entry-level conference no different than the Big South. Any school with ambition is looking to move a step up on the ladder.

[WestCoastAggie]

First, the AE should just add CCSU to get America East to 10 members (18-game basketball schedule). :)

Then the AE would have 5 football members (Albany, Bryant, CCSU, Maine, New Hampshire) + URI is a lock for #6.

At that point, you prioritize the regional schools available (SBU, Towson, 'Nova, Holy Cross, Fordham, Richmond, Merrimack, SHU) and invite more associates as needed.

Does Central Conn. have the academic or economic profile that fits in with the America East?

Profile and academic fit is something that matters to these college Chancellors and Presidents, and is something that is holding the CAA together closely.

Both the AE and CAA are full of schools that are at least Carnegie R2 institutions, with many as R1, and have a strong shot in joining the AAU. Bryant was a stretch but they are showing they are serious in bolstering their academic standing.

Is that something current members in the NEC can say?

[aceinthehole]

Does Central Conn. have the academic or economic profile that fits in with the America East?

Profile and academic fit is something that matters to these college Chancellors and Presidents, and is something that is holding the CAA together closely.

Both the AE and CAA are full of schools that are at least Carnegie R2 institutions, with many as R1, and have a strong shot in joining the AAU. Bryant was a stretch but they are showing they are serious in bolstering their academic standing.

Is that something current members in the NEC can say?

Not really, and that's always been part of the problem. CCSU has no true academic peers in the region. The closest would-be Towson (but they are much larger) and the rest are in the Midwest, South, and even out West. We're a non-research comprehensive public, think Western Illinois, Southeastern Louisiana, Eastern Washington. There aren't any D-I like that in the Northeast. We would probably be considered a OVC-type program. Resources are another issue.

However, bottom line is we wouldn't be any worse than former member Hartford, have a similar budget than NJIT, and it's not like Bryant is a academic school anyone recognizes. We would "fit" in the AE fine athletically for sure. I've heard there has been informal discussion, and there may be opportunity in the future, but nothing is imminent.

The NEC is small, private, most Catholic colleges. The NEC is nearly identical profile to the MAAC and as a public school, CCSU has always been an outlier. Former members UMBC (NEC) and Army (MAAC) were the only other public in either league. MAAC is stronger basketball conference, but academically the 2 leagues aren't very different basically a wash. SFU is no better/worse than Canisius. That's why so many NEC schools (Marist, Rider, Monmouth, QU, MSM, SHU, Merrimack) joined the MAAC over the years.

I think LIU is the only Research university in the NEC/MAAC and they are not on anyone's radar academically.

All this being said, at some point in the future, I do see football "alliances" or conferences that will exist outside of basketball-focused leagues in this region. Fewer (mid-majors) schools are playing FCS in the region. At some point, with what we're seeing happen with travel, a new paradigm will emerge for football at this level.

[ST_Lawson]

...Even WIU if the OVC deal goes sideways with football somehow and they need an affiliate home, they'd be welcomed back with massive smiles and hugs...

Which, honestly, would have been my preferred scenario in the first place...MVFC for football, OVC for all other sports...but the OVC wasn't going to go for that in their current situation.

[aceinthehole]

There will be a total of just 5 D-I Independent football programs in 2024 and here are a few interesting notes:

- 4 are located in CT and MA (UConn, UMass, MC and SHU)

- 3 are Catholic universities (ND, MC, SHU)

- 2 are State Flagship, Land Grant universities from New England (UConn and UMass)

Connecticut (FBS)
Massachusetts (FBS)
Merrimack (FCS)
Notre Dame (FBS)
Sacred Heart (FCS)

[taper]

There will be a total of just 5 D-I Independent football programs in 2024 and here are a few interesting notes:

- 4 are located in CT and MA (UConn, UMass, MC and SHU)

- 3 are Catholic universities (ND, MC, SHU)

- 2 are State Flagship, Land Grant universities from New England (UConn and UMass)

Connecticut (FBS)
Massachusetts (FBS)
Merrimack (FCS)
Notre Dame (FBS)
Sacred Heart (FCS)
One of these things is not like the others...

[UNHWildcat18]

I don’t understand why either would would exit the NEC. It is the perfect spot for their programs, particularly football. It’s not like they have better options waiting out there.

I almost wonder if they just don't care about football enough to be Indy for say 3 seasons and then get potentially let back in the NEC. They are with "better" schools in the MAAC now, and can just suffer the loss of a football auto bid for a few seasons.

Does suck for current players though.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Yep. Doesn't everyone remember that Monmouth, RMU, and Bryant have all previously left the NEC for a non-football conference. This is a clear pattern and the schools are making the decision for reasons other than football. They know the consequences and don't care, because the NEC is just that bad.

The NEC is a transitional entry-level conference no different than the Big South. Any school with ambition is looking to move a step up on the ladder.

People saw the FDU upset and completely lost critical thinking. The conference remains terrible and in fact continues to weaken. It will become even more anemic after Merrimack and Sacred Heart depart. Look at the WBB standings. One team (SHU) has a WINNING record. The NEC is reduced to bringing in Chicago State as a mercenary. Ignore the high-sounding rhetoric they published about the decision. It was Chicago State or die.

So SHU football has to be independent. So Bryant football had to join the Big South. Those were necessary sacrifices to ensure escape from Noreen's rotting conference.

[bonarae]

People saw the FDU upset and completely lost critical thinking. The conference remains terrible and in fact continues to weaken. It will become even more anemic after Merrimack and Sacred Heart depart. Look at the WBB standings. One team (SHU) has a WINNING record. The NEC is reduced to bringing in Chicago State as a mercenary. Ignore the high-sounding rhetoric they published about the decision. It was Chicago State or die.

So SHU football has to be independent. So Bryant football had to join the Big South. Those were necessary sacrifices to ensure escape from Noreen's rotting conference.

Hmm, what other sports are the strong points of the NEC? Nothing anymore? xsmhx

We need to file a petition somewhere. Is change.org dead by now? xrolleyesx

[UNHWildcat18]

People saw the FDU upset and completely lost critical thinking. The conference remains terrible and in fact continues to weaken. It will become even more anemic after Merrimack and Sacred Heart depart. Look at the WBB standings. One team (SHU) has a WINNING record. The NEC is reduced to bringing in Chicago State as a mercenary. Ignore the high-sounding rhetoric they published about the decision. It was Chicago State or die.

So SHU football has to be independent. So Bryant football had to join the Big South. Those were necessary sacrifices to ensure escape from Noreen's rotting conference.

One almost begs the question if that the schools left in the NEC are just better off being in the NE-10....

[OhioHen]

One almost begs the question if that the schools left in the NEC are just better off being in the NE-10....
Does the NE-10 want them?

[UNHWildcat18]

Does the NE-10 want them?

Eh unsure, but between the NEC,MAAC, and honestly the NE-10. It's really quite the mess of schools who don't seem to know who they want to be in a conference with or where they should be.

With you guys leaving the AE/CAA/PL could see movement as well. The east coast really is a roller coaster for D1 schools.

[clenz]

Hmm, what other sports are the strong points of the NEC? Nothing anymore? xsmhx

We need to file a petition somewhere. Is change.org dead by now? xrolleyesx
Of the core sports that every/near every conference sponsors and the conference net/RPI rankings (most recent year rankings)

FB 16 of 17 in FCS - ahead of only Pioneer
MBB 31 of 33 - ahead of only MEAC and Patriot but only by .002 points. Behind 30th place Southland by .021 points so not reachable. Independent is 29th and involves only Chicago State
WBB 32 of 33 - ahead of only "Independent" which has one team - 0-24 Chicago State
VB 29 of 32 - ahead of only MAAC, MEAC, SWAC
SB 29 of 33 - ahead of Horizon, SWAC, Indy (Chicago St), MEAC
Baseball 29 of 31 - ahead of SWAC and Indy (Chicago St)
MSOC - 22 of 23 - ahead of OVC
WSOC - 30 of 32 - ahead of SWAC and Indy (Chicago St)

And Chicago State is going to become a member of the NEC so you can make most all of the rankings drop a spot in terms of how many they are ahead of.

The bottom of each and every sport seems to be pretty consistent - NEC, MEAC, MAAC, SWAC.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Hmm, what other sports are the strong points of the NEC? Nothing anymore? xsmhx

We need to file a petition somewhere. Is change.org dead by now? xrolleyesx

The NEC has the #1 worst commissioner!

The league is good at nothing but departures and poor decisions. It is a Division III leaguq masquerading as Division I for enrollment and March Madness money.

[Go...gate]

Wondering if Wagner might be a fit for the Patriot League. It certainly works geographically.

[aceinthehole]

Wondering if Wagner might be a fit for the Patriot League. It certainly works geographically.

I don't know about Wagner. They probably have the highest regarded academic profile of the remaining NEC members, but I doubt the PL would consider them for anything at all.

Also, not that I think it means anything, but a Merrimack podcast (mostly focused on ice hockey), mentioned the Patriot League for football ...

https://twitter.com/TheMackReports/status/1753253796749430850

Starts at 33:50 and the hosts casually mention the partial schedule football that was released to date may have "some teams on their schedule that could be potentially be future conference opponents in the Patriot League"

[UNHWildcat18]

I don't know about Wagner. They probably have the highest regarded academic profile of the remaining NEC members, but I doubt the PL would consider them for anything at all.

Also, not that I think it means anything, but a Merrimack podcast (mostly focused on ice hockey), mentioned the Patriot League for football ...

https://twitter.com/TheMackReports/status/1753253796749430850

Starts at 33:50 and the hosts casually mention the partial schedule football that was released to date may have "some teams on their schedule that could be potentially be future conference opponents in the Patriot League"

Wouldn’t that be something if MC got PL football over SHU…..

[aceinthehole]

Wouldn’t that be something if MC got PL football over SHU…..

Agreed. I wouldn't think either school has a realistic shot at PL football, but to pick Merrimack over SHU would be a statement.

My feeling is this is just wishful thinking from 2 guys on a podcast. Rumors were that MC was interested in the CAA Football and that door just isn't open right now.

Wondering what the real feelings are from the PL conference offices and the member schools on football expansion.

[aceinthehole]

Updated 2024 schedules. Each school has 8 known games, plus they will likely play each other (once or twice) for a total of 9 (or 10) games so far.

Shared open dates: 9/14 and 11/16

Sacred Heart (H-2; A-6)
09/21 - at Stonehill
09/28 - at Delaware
10/05 - Norfolk State
10/12 - at Central Connecticut
10/19 - at Lafayette
11/02 - at Duquesne
11/09 - LIU
11/23 - at Saint Francis U.

Merrimack (H-4; A-4)
08/31 - at Air Force
09/07 - at UConn
09/21 - Maine
09/28 - Dartmouth
10/19 - Stonehill
10/26 - Colgate
11/02 - at Robert Morris
11/23 - at Fordham

[NY Crusader 2010]

Wondering if Wagner might be a fit for the Patriot League. It certainly works geographically.

You've brought this up several times. What's the fixation with Wagner?

I'll keep an open mind but I don't see the fit.

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=NY Crusader 2010;3173878]You've brought this up several times. What's the fixation with Wagner?

I'll keep an open mind but I don't see the fit.[/QUOT

Yes, I have raised it in the past, just as I raised Hofstra, Monmouth , Northeastern and others.

Private, regional, northeastern footprint, good academics or an institutional commitment to get them there.

Don't know why HC would even care - it always seems to believe the grass is greener elsewhere.

[Go...gate]

Wouldn’t that be something if MC got PL football over SHU…..

Interesting....

[Dane96]

Merrimack’s academics are closer to a low end regional school than they are of anything remotely like the PL. If they are being considered for PL football expansion (same with SHU) that means W&M, Richmond, and Nova are a non starter. If the CAA football league breaks up, and I truly see no reason it will unless W&M and Richmond seek other pastures, then both of those schools likely head to a Southern based conference. Nova would have an interesting choice.

[mainejeff]

This^^^

[aceinthehole]

Merrimack’s academics are closer to low end regional school than they are of anything remotely like the PL. If they are being consider for PL football expansion (same with SHU) that means W&M, Richmond, and Nova are a non starter. If the CAA football league breaks up, and u truly see no reason it will unless W&M and Richmond seek other pastures, then it will be both of those schools to a Southern based conference. Nova would have an interesting choice.

Yep. I see this as the only realistic option for the PL - hope the CAA splits and try to bring the Main Line on board.

'Nova is tied to the Big East and if CAA Football were to splinter into a N/S setup, I could see them choosing to join Georgetown, Holy Cross, Fordham and the rest of the PL, rather than a New England/NY based public league or a Southern conference.

W&M will keep football in whatever league they are in for other sports - most likely a Mid-Atlantic/Southern-based league. If the PL can't pry them from the CAA in all sports, I doubt they join just for FB.

[DFW HOYA]

Repeating for effect:

1. Villanova should have no interest in the Patriot League: all the spend and none of the value.
2. Georgetown should have aspirations outside the Patriot League but is a prisoner of low expectations.
3. The Patriot League has no interest in NEC teams.

[Go...gate]

Merrimack’s academics are closer to low end regional school than they are of anything remotely like the PL. If they are being consider for PL football expansion (same with SHU) that means W&M, Richmond, and Nova are a non starter. If the CAA football league breaks up, and u truly see no reason it will unless W&M and Richmond seek other pastures, then it will be both of those schools to a Southern based conference. Nova would have an interesting choice.

Whatever happens, it is taking a while.

[Go...gate]

Repeating for effect:

1. Villanova should have no interest in the Patriot League: all the spend and none of the value.
2. Georgetown should have aspirations outside the Patriot League but is a prisoner of low expectations.
3. The Patriot League has no interest in NEC teams.

According to you.

[ngineer]

Agree they are raising their profile however, there isn't a single CAA football team that SHU's stadium would hold a candle to. Even Bryant's setup "pre-expansion" is light years better. If SHU built a stadium (not sure they have room) I can see maybe some interest if the CAA North ever broke up. MAYBE. That said, SHU wants the PL...it's not even a secret.

Never, ever going to happen. PL presidents won't allow it...unless there was an emergency situation to replace a sudden departure.

[DFW HOYA]

According to you.

Yes. I never said otherwise.

1. Villanova does not get anything out of the PL that it would not get in the CAA excepting lesser travel, but at the expense of at-large consideration. The #3 CAA school gets a look, the #3 PL school will not. Fair? No, but that's FCS.

2. I have long maintained that Georgetown does not seek opportunity outside the Patriot League because it lacks vision. It has kicked the can on competitive football for a generation.

3. The PL has long shown no real interest in schools that punch below its academic weight. Maybe that will change, I just haven't seen it.

[Go...gate]

I tried to post but my computer crashed.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I agree with the sentiment that the PL won't be adding anyone as a football affiliate unless we're forced to in order to cover a sudden departure.

The conference has only added members 3 times this century, most recently when Loyola and Boston U. joined for all sports in 2012. Prior to that, you'd have to go back to Georgetown joining for football in 2002 and American joining for all sports in 2001. Georgetown replaced Towson as a football affiliate when they went CAA in all sports (A-10 Football at the time) but I think there was a one or two-year overlap when both Towson and Georgetown were in the league. I guess league brass in the 1990's didn't mind having a regional state school in the conference. I don't think Towson's admission was related to needing a team for the auto-bid because at the time the PL wasn't even going to the playoffs.

[NY Crusader 2010]

[QUOTE=NY Crusader 2010;3173878]You've brought this up several times. What's the fixation with Wagner?

I'll keep an open mind but I don't see the fit.[/QUOT

Yes, I have raised it in the past, just as I raised Hofstra, Monmouth , Northeastern and others.

Private, regional, northeastern footprint, good academics or an institutional commitment to get them there.

Don't know why HC would even care - it always seems to believe the grass is greener elsewhere.

Where is Holy Cross going? Unless we somehow get invited to the Atlantic 10, we're not going anywhere.

[clenz]

[QUOTE=Go...gate;3174014]

Where is Holy Cross going? Unless we somehow get invited to the Atlantic 10, we're not going anywhere.
The A10 is at 15, outside of adding 1 more to get to 16 because "even number" they are so large I can't imagine they want to do too much expanding.

They are a 1, maybe 2, bid max, league if the committee wants to be part of the "other leagues deserve another bid more but the A10 name is the A10 name, and adding more mouths to feed off of that.

I'd also bet if any expansion was happening in the immediate future someone like Bradley or Drake would be the first approaches.

[aceinthehole]

Delaware State, D-II St. Anselm's, and Georgetown added to SHU 2024 schedule.

https://fbschedules.com/sacred-heart-announces-2024-football-schedule/

[DFW HOYA]

Delaware State, D-II St. Anselm's, and Georgetown added to SHU 2024 schedule.


No knock on SHU but Georgetown literally can't schedule anyone these days.

[Dane96]

Delaware State, D-II St. Anselm's, and Georgetown added to SHU 2024 schedule.

https://fbschedules.com/sacred-heart-announces-2024-football-schedule/

That is a "woof" of a schedule. Not likely to attract recruits if this is what it is looking like going forward.

[aceinthehole]

That is a "woof" of a schedule. Not likely to attract recruits if this is what it is looking like going forward.

Agree it's not a very attractive FCS schedule and it will not enhance recruiting, but it fits their current profile and predicament.

- They found 5 hope games, just 1 D-II opponent.
- 6 are Catholic schools; just 4 State schools (UD, DSU, CCSU, NSU)
- 5 NEC, 2 Patriot League, 2 MEAC, 1 CAA, fellow Indy Merrimack, and D-2

This isn't anywhere as good as what Merrimack has, but it's not much worse than a full NEC schedule. Their biggest problem is no AQ access and lack of any weekly award/player recognition - IMO that is going to kill recruiting more than the schedule.

[UNHWildcat18]

That is a "woof" of a schedule. Not likely to attract recruits if this is what it is looking like going forward.

They really should have just stayed in the NEC.... gonna be woof for a while unless the NEC invites them back.

[aceinthehole]

No knock on SHU but Georgetown literally can't schedule anyone these days.

Maybe not who you who want them to schedule - but this is exactly the games that Georgetown can schedule, if they wanted:

NEC teams (SFU, Wagner, Stonehill)
Indys (SHU and MC)
MEAC teams (Howard, Morgan St, Norfolk St)
CAA (road games for $$ - Towson, Nova, W&M)
D-II (buy a home game)

You likely won't get many CAA teams to agree for a home/home deal, and your not a "bowl counter" so expect to schedule like this.

[aceinthehole]

They really should have just stayed in the NEC.... gonna be woof for a while unless the NEC invites them back.

They wanted out of the NEC for all sports and are willing to leave football on the outside. The move to the MAAC was an upgrade for most every team, but football. That was a trade the AD was willing to make.

This isn't a great schedule, but not much worse than a full NEC schedule. They will likely have crappy schedules like this for a few years.

They aren't getting back into NEC football for a while unless the league loses more members (which is unlikely in the near term). Only if Wagner gets and invite to the MAAC or if Central gets invited to AE/CAA - both scenarios are extremely unlikely right now - do I think that SHU/MC will be invited back for football.

[DFW HOYA]

Maybe not who you who want them to schedule - but this is exactly the games that Georgetown can schedule, if they wanted:


NEC teams (SFU, Wagner, Stonehill)
Indys (SHU and MC)
MEAC teams (Howard, Morgan St, Norfolk St)
CAA (road games for $$ - Towson, Nova, W&M)
D-II (buy a home game)

You likely won't get many CAA teams to agree for a home/home deal, and your not a "bowl counter" so expect to schedule like this.

No one wants one a non-bowl counter at a playoff-eligible conference. It's a complete no-win situation.

[Go...gate]

Maybe not who you who want them to schedule - but this is exactly the games that Georgetown can schedule, if they wanted:

NEC teams (SFU, Wagner, Stonehill)
Indys (SHU and MC)
MEAC teams (Howard, Morgan St, Norfolk St)
CAA (road games for $$ - Towson, Nova, W&M)
D-II (buy a home game)

You likely won't get many CAA teams to agree for a home/home deal, and your not a "bowl counter" so expect to schedule like this.

Ivy and Pioneer.

[Mike296]

No one wants one a non-bowl counter at a playoff-eligible conference. It's a complete no-win situation.

Maybe somebody can enlighten me on the non-bowl counter thing? Why is that a thing? I’m not up to date on the situation hence me asking.

[DFW HOYA]

Maybe somebody can enlighten me on the non-bowl counter thing? Why is that a thing? I’m not up to date on the situation hence me asking.

FBS (the former I-A) schools need a minimum of six Division I wins for bowl consideration, of which one win can be applied from an FCS (I-AA) team offering up to 90 percent of the subdivision's available scholarship cap (63 x 90% = 56.7 scholarships or equivalent). Thus, to schedule nearly any FBS team, a school must offer 56.7 athletic scholarships or equivalent athletic aid ("equivalencies"). These schools then count towards the six win minimum and are called "bowl counter" opponents.

The Ivy and Pioneer do not offer any equivalencies as these schools do not offer athletic aid in admission. Those moving up from Division II are usually in the process of moving up and take a couple of years to get to 56.7 or to 63 overall, such as Merrimack or Lindenwood. Every other FCS school meets the 56.7 requirement and thus are sought for a bowl counter game early in the FBS season.

Then there's Georgetown, which does not share its equivalencies offered and has not committed to athletic scholarships after 23 years in the Patriot League, to which the other member schools went to 60 scholarships after 2013 and are presumed to be at 63 per recent comments from the league office. Put another way, no FBS school will schedule Georgetown because a win will not advance that school toward bowl eligibility.

Secondarily, many FCS schools will not schedule Georgetown because an early season game with Georgetown limits that school's own ability to schedule an FBS team at that time of the season.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

SHU managed to fill an independent schedule with 12 teams on short notice, but SFU can't fill a full schedule with years of planning.

Sigh.

[Go...gate]

FBS (the former I-A) schools need a minimum of six Division I wins for bowl consideration, of which one win can be applied from an FCS (I-AA) team offering up to 90 percent of the subdivision's available scholarship cap (63 x 90% = 56.7 scholarships or equivalent). Thus, to schedule nearly any FBS team, a school must offer 56.7 athletic scholarships or equivalent athletic aid ("equivalencies"). These schools then count towards the six win minimum and are called "bowl counter" opponents.

The Ivy and Pioneer do not offer any equivalencies as these schools do not offer athletic aid in admission. Those moving up from Division II are usually in the process of moving up and take a couple of years to get to 56.7 or to 63 overall, such as Merrimack or Lindenwood. Every other FCS school meets the 56.7 requirement and thus are sought for a bowl counter game early in the FBS season.

Then there's Georgetown, which does not share its equivalencies offered and has not committed to athletic scholarships after 23 years in the Patriot League, to which the other member schools went to 60 scholarships after 2013 and are presumed to be at 63 per recent comments from the league office. Put another way, no FBS school will schedule Georgetown because a win will not advance that school toward bowl eligibility.

Secondarily, many FCS schools will not schedule Georgetown because an early season game with Georgetown limits that school's own ability to schedule an FBS team at that time of the season.

Is GU's administration still intractably opposed to becoming a "counter"? I tried to raise this the other day when you mentioned that Villanova essentially had nothing to gain by joining the PL for football (my computer crashed). Having one member which does not line up with the others certainly does not help the situation. I honestly figured GU would eventually fall into line in this regard. I can recall when GU came on board in 2000 that they did not want to give scholarships or equivalencies (I had no idea they do not even share the information regarding equivalencies) but did not envision that the conference would continue to permit this all these years later.

[bonarae]

FBS (the former I-A) schools need a minimum of six Division I wins for bowl consideration, of which one win can be applied from an FCS (I-AA) team offering up to 90 percent of the subdivision's available scholarship cap (63 x 90% = 56.7 scholarships or equivalent). Thus, to schedule nearly any FBS team, a school must offer 56.7 athletic scholarships or equivalent athletic aid ("equivalencies"). These schools then count towards the six win minimum and are called "bowl counter" opponents.

The Ivy and Pioneer do not offer any equivalencies as these schools do not offer athletic aid in admission. Those moving up from Division II are usually in the process of moving up and take a couple of years to get to 56.7 or to 63 overall, such as Merrimack or Lindenwood. Every other FCS school meets the 56.7 requirement and thus are sought for a bowl counter game early in the FBS season.

Then there's Georgetown, which does not share its equivalencies offered and has not committed to athletic scholarships after 23 years in the Patriot League, to which the other member schools went to 60 scholarships after 2013 and are presumed to be at 63 per recent comments from the league office. Put another way, no FBS school will schedule Georgetown because a win will not advance that school toward bowl eligibility.

Secondarily, many FCS schools will not schedule Georgetown because an early season game with Georgetown limits that school's own ability to schedule an FBS team at that time of the season.

When do you think Georgetown's admin will call time on football and hang the cleats up? :(

[Dane96]

When do you think Georgetown's admin will call time on football and hang the cleats up? :(

THIS!!

Been wondering for awhile...

[DFW HOYA]

When do you think Georgetown's admin will call time on football and hang the cleats up? :(

This is the 150th anniversary year of Georgetown football. It may not thrive but it has a place.