Delaware to CUSA

[atthewbon]

https://x.com/PeteThamel/status/1729163578639622538?s=20

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Was just about to post this! So many layers to this!

[atthewbon]

Yea, the landscape of the FCS is changing, as another big public school that invests heavily in football leaves. I think it could cause some more stirring out west. The Dakotas, Montanas, and a few other MVFC and Big Sky teams are slowly becoming the only big public schools that invest heavily in football left in the FCS

[atthewbon]

Yea, the landscape of the FCS is changing, as another big public school that invests heavily in football leaves. I think it could cause some more stirring out west. The Dakotas, Montanas, and a few other MVFC and Big Sky teams are slowly becoming the only big public schools that invest heavily in football left in the FCS

I think some combination of teams in the MVFC and Big Sky forming a conference and moving up to the FBS together would be both good for both the schools moving up, and the FCS as a whole, creating more parity. I doubt the current FBS would let it happen, but it would be an optimal outcome IMO.

[SeattleCat]

https://x.com/PeteThamel/status/1729163578639622538?s=20


All the good teams in the FCS should be looking for a home ahead of the realignment, its going to get crazy.

[Mocs123]

Does this mean Delaware had to pay the $5M buy-in to the FBS in addition to whatever their buyout was to the CAA? That's some serious coin.

The Dakota's, Montana's, etc probably need to be in FBS, but there isn't really anywhere for them to go. Obviously, the rest of the FCS can't compete.

For a school like Chattanooga, it does raise the question though - what does FCS look like in five years? In ten years? The same might be said for G5 though.

[caribbeanhen]

Does this mean Delaware had to pay the $5M buy-in to the FBS in addition to whatever their buyout was to the CAA? That's some serious coin.

The Dakota's, Montana's, etc probably need to be in FBS, but there isn't really anywhere for them to go. Obviously, the rest of the FCS can't compete.

For a school like Chattanooga, it does raise the question though - what does FCS look like in five years? In ten years? The same might be said for G5 though.

G5 will look like the FCS of 25 years ago, Delaware scrambled into the lifeboats as the iceberg is visible meaning you don’t want to be in FCS 5 years from now.

Personally, I’m not a fan of the move as FCS football is my home

[wapiti]

Does this mean Delaware had to pay the $5M buy-in to the FBS in addition to whatever their buyout was to the CAA? That's some serious coin.

The Dakota's, Montana's, etc probably need to be in FBS, but there isn't really anywhere for them to go. Obviously, the rest of the FCS can't compete.

For a school like Chattanooga, it does raise the question though - what does FCS look like in five years? In ten years? The same might be said for G5 though.

If Washington State and Oregon State raid the Mountain West to back fill the PAC 12, then that would open a prime opportunity for MSU, UM, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Idaho, Weber, NAU, UC Davis, Sac, CP to back fill the Mountain West.

[SeattleCat]

If Washington State and Oregon State raid the Mountain West to back fill the PAC 12, then that would open a prime opportunity for MSU, UM, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Idaho, Weber, NAU, UC Davis, Sac, CP to back fill the Mountain West.

Personally the "relegation" idea floated around by the Boise State AD is very interesting and I think could bring some excitement.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

IMO, UD basically deemphasized football after Keeler to the point they were longer capable of keeping up with the true elite of FCS. The move to CUSA allows the program to at least carry its weight financially while offering a bit more marketability. Unless there's a significant institutional culture change in Newark I don't see UD being a TRULY relevant FBS or G5 program. They're caught up too much in the I-95 wash for people to take them more seriously as a CUSA program than if they remained in FCS. In fact, weeknight games against UTEP, MTSU, FIU etc likely won't be the equivalent of a Saturday FCS matchup with URI or Stony Brook.

This is nothing more than justifying the cost/burden of the program imo.

[walliver]

Does this mean Delaware had to pay the $5M buy-in to the FBS in addition to whatever their buyout was to the CAA? That's some serious coin.

The Dakota's, Montana's, etc probably need to be in FBS, but there isn't really anywhere for them to go. Obviously, the rest of the FCS can't compete.

For a school like Chattanooga, it does raise the question though - what does FCS look like in five years? In ten years? The same might be said for G5 though.

When the ACC’s grant of rights expires we will have the B1G/SEC subdivision bring in big bucks, with everybody else scrambling for the leftovers. The Big 12 may have a viable future, but won’t have the TV markets of the Big Two.

I could see the private and military schools in the SoCon staying put, but Chatty, ETSU and Western may look to move on. On the other hand, I don’t think there is enough money in lower level G5 football to support all the new move-ups.

I’m afraid that in the next 10 years, many schools at most levels will re-evaluate the viability of football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

G5 will look like the FCS of 25 years ago, Delaware scrambled into the lifeboats as the iceberg is visible meaning you don’t want to be in FCS 5 years from now.

Personally, I’m not a fan of the move as FCS football is my home

I'm not sure if you want to be in the G5 5 years from now either. The AAC and CUSA are nightmares for programs like Temple and Delaware given the regional "I-95" culture.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

When the ACC’s grant of rights expires we will have the B1G/SEC subdivision bring in big bucks, with everybody else scrambling for the leftovers. The Big 12 may have a viable future, but won’t have the TV markets of the Big Two.

I could see the private and military schools in the SoCon staying put, but Chatty, ETSU and Western may look to move on. On the other hand, I don’t think there is enough money in lower level G5 football to support all the new move-ups.

I’m afraid that in the next 10 years, many schools at most levels will re-evaluate the viability of football.

I agree! It's time for a school like Temple (a former UD rival) to consider dropping the program imo. Maybe give it another 2-3 years but if the landscape of college football does not change for the better the it's time to pull the plug.

[Professor Chaos]

A few thoughts:

1) This shows how desperate Delaware was to get out of the CAA - maybe it was the lack of enthusiasm about new additions to the CAA or maybe they just wanted FBS at all costs but CUSA is a dumpster fire of an FBS conference
2) The CAA continues to wade further into mediocrity with this move - both stalwarts in JMU and Delaware now gone with no one even close to them in terms of stature available as a replacement
3) FCS as a whole continues to lose schools who are committed to football - I don't know about other MVFC/Big Sky schools but the pressure amps up even further on NDSU's athletic administration to address the loss of football peers at the FCS level and how they plan to keep NDSU from stagnating again like they did by staying in D2 for too long.

[wapiti]

Personally the "relegation" idea floated around by the Boise State AD is very interesting and I think could bring some excitement.

How does the number of Scholarships available and how they are used be worked around in this "relegation" idea? Plus a host of other rules that would cause headaches for teams bouncing between the 2 levels.

[Laker]

When Delaware played in Brookings for the playoffs they had the distinction of being the 50th state that I had seen play in person. Now it looks like they will be FBS. How many more FCS teams will make that move?

[centraljerseycat]

I had heard rumblings but now it's official. Damn.. First JMU, now the Blue Hens in '25 and with annual games against Richmond and William & Mary no longer guaranteed, it's time for the Cats to bolt the island of misfit toys known as the CAA. Time to form that new FCS football-only conference that's been discussed on AGS ad nauseum under the banner of the A-10 or America East. Or failing that time to join the Patriot League..

[MUHAWKS]

G5 will look like the FCS of 25 years ago, Delaware scrambled into the lifeboats as the iceberg is visible meaning you don’t want to be in FCS 5 years from now.

Personally, I’m not a fan of the move as FCS football is my home



gonna miss u and chicken!! can you elaborate on the bolded part pls?

[JacksFan40]

Can't blame Delaware for the move even if C-USA is not the ideal conference. Obviously the Sun Belt was likely the preferred spot with the MAC being next, but the Hens see the writing on the wall for the FCS. In just about a 10 year span the FCS has lost Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, James Madison, Jacksonville State, Sam Houston State, Kennesaw State, and now Delaware. All of these programs have had varying degrees of success in the FCS, and now all of them are gone. I may be missing some others as well but these were the notable ones.

I have always jumped back and forth on whether I want SDSU to move up, but it's becoming more and more prevalent that it may be a necessity if we want to continue growing the program.

The most ideal situation for a move-up was the PAC-2 grabbing a about 6 or so MWC teams and a few AAC teams to reload the conference, and the MWC backfilling with a mix of Big Sky/MVFC. But it sounds like the MWC may merge entirely with the PAC, meaning there may not be an MWC to join.

[Franks Tanks]

G5 will look like the FCS of 25 years ago, Delaware scrambled into the lifeboats as the iceberg is visible meaning you don’t want to be in FCS 5 years from now.

Personally, I’m not a fan of the move as FCS football is my home

Right on! A ton of programs that don’t belong in FBS have moved up ( I think Delaware belongs by the way), and have just watered down the subdivision. The Power 4 conferences will and have separated themselves to such a degree from the lower level G5 schools have nothing in common with the big boys and don’t belong in the same division. Which was the whole idea behind 1-AA in the first place. All this is doing is speeding up another complete reorganization of D1 football.

[Pards Rule]

Does this mean Delaware had to pay the $5M buy-in to the FBS in addition to whatever their buyout was to the CAA? That's some serious coin.

The Dakota's, Montana's, etc probably need to be in FBS, but there isn't really anywhere for them to go. Obviously, the rest of the FCS can't compete.

For a school like Chattanooga, it does raise the question though - what does FCS look like in five years? In ten years? The same might be said for G5 though.

Yes as reported on Hen board at www.gohens.net...thats a lot of money. And beware the issues of UMass and UConn in doing so. Grass not always greener!

[DFW HOYA]

I agree! It's time for a school like Temple (a former UD rival) to consider dropping the program imo. Maybe give it another 2-3 years but if the landscape of college football does not change for the better the it's time to pull the plug.

Can anyone name a single school that dropped football in the last 15-20 years that became a better program as a result? Certainly we haven't seen the rise of Hofstra, Northeastern, Iona, LaSalle, or Jacksonville.

[JacksFan40]

When Delaware played in Brookings for the playoffs they had the distinction of being the 50th state that I had seen play in person. Now it looks like they will be FBS. How many more FCS teams will make that move?
I know Tarleton was looking at an FBS move not long after moving up to D1, so they could be a C-USA target in the near future. Missouri State, Central Arkansas, and Eastern Kentucky are also programs I have seen be mentioned in either C-USA or Sun Belt expansion. I am sure there are some others who would be interested if the opportunity arises.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yes as reported on Hen board at www.gohens.net...thats (http://www.gohens.net...thats) a lot of money. And beware the issues of UMass and UConn in doing so. Grass not always greener!

I think UD has a lot in common with UMass at this point when considering where the Minutemen were when they made the transition. The big difference being, UD won't try to play home games 2 hours away from campus which instantly created a disconnect at UMass.

To me, this is nothing more than justifying the cost of the program at this point.

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Can anyone name a single school that dropped football in the last 15-20 years that became a better program as a result? Certainly we haven't seen the rise of Hofstra, Northeastern, Iona, LaSalle, or Jacksonville.

St. Mary's imo. Resource reallocation helped hoops. Iona had some good hoops teams too over the last 15-20 years. La Salle has a more recent Sweet 16 than Temple and arguably a better hoops coach..lol. It depends. What's occurring at Temple is not sustainable....

[TJT]

This will be the CUSA membership once the Blue Hens join:

Delaware
Liberty
Western Kentucky
Middle Tenn St
Kennesaw St
Jackson State
Florida International
La Tech
Sam Houston
UTEP
New Mexico

The football team along with all their other sports will certainly be road warriors. UD fans only had to travel to nearby DC for the CAA men's basketball tournament in 2023. Had they been in CUSA, they would have had to go to Frisco, TX.

[Mocs123]

Jacksonville State - not Jackson State.

[caribbeanhen]

I'm not sure if you want to be in the G5 5 years from now either. The AAC and CUSA are nightmares for programs like Temple and Delaware given the regional "I-95" culture.

Right I’ve seen lots of talk of CUSA being a stepping stone …

[WestCoastAggie]

When is the College of Charleston to the A-10 will be finalized?

[caribbeanhen]

This will be the CUSA membership once the Blue Hens join:

Delaware
Liberty
Western Kentucky
Middle Tenn St
Kennesaw St
Jackson State
Florida International
La Tech
Sam Houston
UTEP
New Mexico

The football team along with all their other sports will certainly be road warriors. UD fans only had to travel to nearby DC for the CAA men's basketball tournament in 2023. Had they been in CUSA, they would have had to go to Frisco, TX.

Delaware is undefeated vs those sad teams

6-0

[ccd494]

This will be the CUSA membership once the Blue Hens join:

Delaware
Liberty
Western Kentucky
Middle Tenn St
Kennesaw St
Jackson State
Florida International
La Tech
Sam Houston
UTEP
New Mexico

The football team along with all their other sports will certainly be road warriors. UD fans only had to travel to nearby DC for the CAA men's basketball tournament in 2023. Had they been in CUSA, they would have had to go to Frisco, TX.

It's Jacksonville State and New Mexico State, but the best part is you get to play them all on Tuesdays and Wednesdays!!!!

[UNHWildcat18]

Pretty sad day for the CAAFB….
I want UNH playing in a conference with the largest stadium/fan base/name brand institutions possible, because if we are going to be in the small pond of d1 football I’d rather be hanging with the biggest fish in it….losing UD sucks.

[Sitting Bull]

A few thoughts:

1) This shows how desperate Delaware was to get out of the CAA - maybe it was the lack of enthusiasm about new additions to the CAA or maybe they just wanted FBS at all costs but CUSA is a dumpster fire of an FBS conference
2) The CAA continues to wade further into mediocrity with this move - both stalwarts in JMU and Delaware now gone with no one even close to them in terms of stature available as a replacement
3) FCS as a whole continues to lose schools who are committed to football - I don't know about other MVFC/Big Sky schools but the pressure amps up even further on NDSU's athletic administration to address the loss of football peers at the FCS level and how they plan to keep NDSU from stagnating again like they did by staying in D2 for too long.

As much as some want to keep banging that drum, it’s not the CAAs fault that UD made this decision. How can you turn up your nose at Campbell and then join a league with Kennesaw.

The CAA will come out of this just fine. Delaware I wouldn’t bet on it.

[DFW HOYA]

St. Mary's imo. Resource reallocation helped hoops. Iona had some good hoops teams too over the last 15-20 years. La Salle has a more recent Sweet 16 than Temple and arguably a better hoops coach..lol. It depends. What's occurring at Temple is not sustainable....

St Mary's was good when they had football, but they're still a mid-major in the shadows of Gonzaga. The Eastern schools have cratered --if Fairfield had football today they'd be a PL team.

Temple 2023 is certainly more sustainable than a generation ago when they were drawing 4,900 a game at the Vet. The optics are not as good playing Rice and North Texas instead of Pitt and Syracuse, however.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Bad move. CUSA is a trash conference.

This move smells a lot more like UMass than it does JMU.

Delaware to the Sun Belt or American I would totally get it. Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.

Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Sad.

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Bad move. CUSA is a trash conference.

This move smells a lot more like UMass than it does JMU.

Delaware to the Sun Belt or American I would totally get it. Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.

Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Sad.

[TJT]

UD fans have historically traveled in large numbers to away football games along the east coast every season. With only Liberty being a reasonable distance, I would think that practice is about to soon come to an end in CUSA.

[ccd494]

UD fans have historically traveled in large numbers to away football games along the east coast every season. With only Liberty being a reasonable distance, I would think that practice is about to soon come to an end in CUSA.

Plus, the bulk of your conference schedule is on weeknights. No one is travelling to Louisiana Tech on a Tuesday.

[Mocs123]

What's going on in college athletics isn't sustainable, especially at the G5/FCS level. It's all driven by TV money, but what's the TV market for G5 or FCS football? Take the C-USA list above... how many people in Murfreesboro are MTSU fans - not many, they're UTK fans. How many people in Kennesaw are KSU fans - not many, they're UGA fans. How many people in Jacksonville are JSU fans? - They're Auburn or Bama fans. La- Tech - LSU fans, Sam Houston - Texas fans, etc. There has never been such a large disparity between the haves of the SEC and BIG and the have-nots. I mean Texas A&M just paid $76M for a coach - not to coach their football team. That would probably run Chattanooga's whole Athletic department for 3-4 years. The lower level G5 conferences have become a real mess - no longer geographically centered making it a real mess for all the non football sports. Can you imagine Delaware sending their Women's Soccer Team to New Mexico to play every year? I'm sure they'll develop a great rivalry with Florida International too.

Maybe the answer is football only conferences, or maybe football/basketball conferences, and let the rest of your sports play in a more geographically friendly conference.

[caribbeanhen]

A few thoughts:

1) This shows how desperate Delaware was to get out of the CAA - maybe it was the lack of enthusiasm about new additions to the CAA or maybe they just wanted FBS at all costs but CUSA is a dumpster fire of an FBS conference
2) The CAA continues to wade further into mediocrity with this move - both stalwarts in JMU and Delaware now gone with no one even close to them in terms of stature available as a replacement
3) FCS as a whole continues to lose schools who are committed to football - I don't know about other MVFC/Big Sky schools but the pressure amps up even further on NDSU's athletic administration to address the loss of football peers at the FCS level and how they plan to keep NDSU from stagnating again like they did by staying in D2 for too long.

professor, the funny thing is was nobody was talking FBS several years ago at least publicly, but as soon as the CAA started admitting and restructuring the conference, the opinion flipped overnight. It’s like Delaware caught a glimpse of the future and saw ghosts

I think you’re 100% correct when you say Delaware was desperate to get out of the CAA and CUSA is a dusty one horse town of sad El Paso songs, Ruston Belts, mud holes and aliens

[HensRock]

Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.


True, but they are not above adding CUSA programs.

[Mocs123]

Plus, the bulk of your conference schedule is on weeknights. No one is travelling to Louisiana Tech on a Tuesday.

True - We used to have a big rivalry with JSU, so when I saw them playing on TV a few times this year on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday I watched a bit. I wondered to myself it I'd be willing to play my games on weeknights for a national TV game, but in reality, I'd have a hard time going to games in person on weeknights. I have to be at work at 6:00am, I have two kids in sports (1 - MS, 1- HS) year round - I'd have a hard time getting to games myself.

[GannonFan]

This is a move Delaware had to make, and has been in the process for a few years. FCS football is just no longer sustainable. Delaware couldn't grow the fanbase at this level and would never do that. And don't get caught up in where we are landing - if the current FBS world has shown anything it's that nothing is permanent. Delaware had to move up into an existing conference per NCAA rules - they didn't have the Liberty religious exception to fight on and they likely didn't want to get caught up in a lawsuit, no matter the merits, with the NCAA by trying to reclassify as an independent. Unless CUSA changes significantly, this is likely a preparatory step for UD to ultimately find a better and longer lasting home. The FBS world is changing significantly, so where UD plays in 2025 will looks vastly different from where they are in 2030. But you can't get into those discussions and moves as an FCS school. This is about UD changing their moniker to be an FBS school and to be in the room when better options become available.

I've been a UD fan and season ticket holder basically since I've been in the womb so that's 50+ years - this is a good and necessary move for UD, and overdue at that. I've always prided UD playing at least at the second level of college football - it used to be DII, then it used to be I-AA, and for a little while it was FCS. But being in FBS, outside of the P5 or P2.5, is where that level is now. UD needs to be there. It's a good day to be a Blue Hen.

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True, but they are not above adding CUSA programs.

Absolutely on the mark.

[Mocs123]

True, but they are not above adding CUSA programs.

And that may be UD's end goal - it would certainly be a better fit for them. I'm not saying it was the wrong or right decision for UD to leave the CAA for C-USA, and I don't disagree that there are lots of problems with C-USA, but it's really the only FBS option now for anyone wanting to move up (maybe the Mountain West for those folks if the PAC12 raids them), so if the UD AD decided that FBS was what was best for the school, C-USA was really the only option.

[CHIP72]

I think some combination of teams in the MVFC and Big Sky forming a conference and moving up to the FBS together would be both good for both the schools moving up, and the FCS as a whole, creating more parity. I doubt the current FBS would let it happen, but it would be an optimal outcome IMO.

I concur. The only conference that might make sense for the Big Sky and Dakota/western MVFC schools is the Mountain West, and I don't see that conference taking them. Having a group of the stronger MVFC/Big Sky Conference teams, especially those that are their state's flagships (both North Dakota schools, both South Dakota schools, both Montana schools, Idaho), is the best pathway for those schools to move to FBS, if they want to move up.

[SonuvaHenx2]

UD fans have historically traveled in large numbers to away football games along the east coast every season. With only Liberty being a reasonable distance, I would think that practice is about to soon come to an end in CUSA.

I dunno, many of us who no longer live out east are looking at some much easier trips than before.

For me, at least:
Western Kentucky (4 hr drive)
Middle Tenn St (6)
Liberty (7)
Kennesaw St (7.5)
Jacksonville St (8)

All closer than getting to Newark.

Or comparing to the nearest few current CAA games:
Elon (7.5)
Towson (7.5)
Richmond (8)
Campbell (8.5)
William & Mary (9)

Compounds quickly for alums and fans more west and/or south
And likely further improves if CUSA is a temporary stopover

[CHIP72]

I agree! It's time for a school like Temple (a former UD rival) to consider dropping the program imo. Maybe give it another 2-3 years but if the landscape of college football does not change for the better the it's time to pull the plug.

I personally wouldn't be shocked if Temple drops football THIS YEAR, or at least whenever their lease at Lincoln Financial Field is up. The writing is on the wall, and Temple is fighting an uphill battle it cannot win.

I agree the most likely scenario for Temple in the next 5 years is for TU to drop football. Maybe they could also help form a conference with the left-outs from the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic (Connecticut, Massachusetts, Delaware, maybe Army and Navy).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is a move Delaware had to make, and has been in the process for a few years. FCS football is just no longer sustainable. Delaware couldn't grow the fanbase at this level and would never do that. And don't get caught up in where we are landing - if the current FBS world has shown anything it's that nothing is permanent. Delaware had to move up into an existing conference per NCAA rules - they didn't have the Liberty religious exception to fight on and they likely didn't want to get caught up in a lawsuit, no matter the merits, with the NCAA by trying to reclassify as an independent. Unless CUSA changes significantly, this is likely a preparatory step for UD to ultimately find a better and longer lasting home. The FBS world is changing significantly, so where UD plays in 2025 will looks vastly different from where they are in 2030. But you can't get into those discussions and moves as an FCS school. This is about UD changing their moniker to be an FBS school and to be in the room when better options become available.

I've been a UD fan and season ticket holder basically since I've been in the womb so that's 50+ years - this is a good and necessary move for UD, and overdue at that. I've always prided UD playing at least at the second level of college football - it used to be DII, then it used to be I-AA, and for a little while it was FCS. But being in FBS, outside of the P5 or P2.5, is where that level is now. UD needs to be there. It's a good day to be a Blue Hen.

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Absolutely on the mark.

You just have to accept that UD is in what amounts to the Pioneer Football League of FBS. You are at the VERY bottom of the subdivision, grouped in with schools "noone" respects and consider a drain. I just hope UD fans that mocked the NEC, PFL, MEAC, SWAC etc. while being in FCS realize they are entering a world where they are now part of that group at the FBS level.

[dbackjon]

Getting into FBS is step one.

Have to start somewhere. JMU diddled for 10 years before getting a ticket.


Doesn't mean Delaware will be in C-USA forever.

[CHIP72]

I definitely think it is not ideal for Delaware to join Conference USA if they are moving up to DI-A/FBS. The Sun Belt would be a more desirable target. Of course, C-USA may merely be a stepping stone for UD to get to the Sun Belt or another current DI-A/FBS G5 conference or future conference that contains the teams not included in the breakaway, super conference with most of the current/soon to be Big Ten, SEC, and some ACC (and maybe Big 12) schools.

[smilo]

So C-USA clearly going to be looking for a 12th member....is it Missouri State's time finally?

As for Delaware...they need the UMass deal with the A-10. And maybe Temple does too. I can't see how this goes any better than either of those programs. Their only hope is to play each other in the long run. Honestly, this sounds like a disaster. A decade of sacrifice.

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So C-USA clearly going to be looking for a 12th member....is it Missouri State's time finally?

As for Delaware...they need the UMass deal with the A-10. And maybe Temple does too. I can't see how this goes any better than either of those programs. Their only hope is to play each other in the long run. Honestly, this sounds like a disaster. A decade of sacrifice.

[DSUrocks07]

Getting into FBS is step one.

Have to start somewhere. JMU diddled for 10 years before getting a ticket.


Doesn't mean Delaware will be in C-USA forever.This is what people keep missing. Take your lumps, but once your foot is in the door your options expand rapidly.

Delaware should have done this back in 2012-2013 or after the title game run a few years later. Although with the pandemic, I'm sure they wanted to be certain that the fan support and success was still sustainable with another playoff run or two.

I'm sure the $5 million fee also played a role.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

Doesn't mean Delaware will be in C-USA forever.

Who else is calling?

[DSUrocks07]

Who else is calling?Better to be there already and ready to make a move than to be stuck in purgatory for three seasons until bowl eligibility kicks in.

Regionality is going to be the future of college football for sustainability, especially at the G5/G6 level.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

This is what people keep missing. Take your lumps, but once your foot is in the door your options expand rapidly.

Delaware should have done this back in 2012-2013 or after the title game run a few years later. Although with the pandemic, I'm sure they wanted to be certain that the fan support and success was still sustainable with another playoff run or two.

I'm sure the $5 million fee also played a role.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

they will be paying the 5 million

[MUHAWKS]

C-HEN- EXPLAIN in as best detail as possible why you said what you said about wont be good to be in FCS 5 years from now?

[DSUrocks07]

I dunno, many of us who no longer live out east are looking at some much easier trips than before.

For me, at least:
Western Kentucky (4 hr drive)
Middle Tenn St (6)
Liberty (7)
Kennesaw St (7.5)
Jacksonville St (8)

All closer than getting to Newark.

Or comparing to the nearest few current CAA games:
Elon (7.5)
Towson (7.5)
Richmond (8)
Campbell (8.5)
William & Mary (9)

Compounds quickly for alums and fans more west and/or south
And likely further improves if CUSA is a temporary stopoverNewark is a college town, but UD alums are all over the mid-atlantic/northeast region. I think the travel concerns are a bit overblown. It's not that they come to Newark and then go to the away games.

If UD is having a winning season, they will travel in force. But that's usually the case for 75% of the programs out there.

Would a more compact conference be preferable? Of course. But needs must. And being already at the FBS level puts UD in a position to navigate the changing landscape more so than staying at FCS.



Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

You just have to accept that UD is in what amounts to the Pioneer Football League of FBS. You are at the VERY bottom of the subdivision, grouped in with schools "noone" respects and consider a drain. I just hope UD fans that mocked the NEC, PFL, MEAC, SWAC etc. while being in FCS realize they are entering a world where they are now part of that group at the FBS level.

Wow - you are WAY off the mark. Would the Pioneer League beat the FCS equivalents of Auburn? C-USA isn't the top of the G5, for sure, but far above the level you are claiming.

Don't worry, if Temple hadn't gotten the golden Big East football ticket years ago, they'd be in the C-USA themselves. No one respects or wants Temple football.

[WileECoyote06]

It’s amazing that ten years ago similar criticisms were made of the sun belch. And now…

[ElCid]

Nothing more than being the occasional scalp bait. The best press they will get is when an FCS team beats them every once in a while. Given the current landscape, this smells of desperation hoping to get an FBS scrap every once in a while when it's dropped from the big boy table. But they will be as relevant as UMass, UConn, or GA So are. But you gotta think that they are thinking they will be a Boise St, to go back in time, or another JMU, recently. And even that may not last. You also have to wonder if they won't be a future Idaho. LOL. Best of luck with the travel budget to the deep south, Texas, and NM. And someone mentioned it, the cost is going to be hefty. I guess the students will pay the fees? A smarter decision would have been to wait and see what is going to happen to the whole sport given the big realignments. If the P5 breaks entirely away, a reorg of G5/FCS might be cheaper.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Wow - you are WAY off the mark. Would the Pioneer League beat the FCS equivalents of Auburn? C-USA isn't the top of the G5, for sure, but far above the level you are claiming.

Don't worry, if Temple hadn't gotten the golden Big East football ticket years ago, they'd be in the C-USA themselves. No one respects or wants Temple football.

People have tremendous respect for Jerry Kill, not NM State football and CUSA football. In the world of FBS football CUSA is the PFL. I'm sure I can find a situation where a PFL team beat a .500 or so FCS scholarship program (Auburn equivalent).

Temple football had value for a moment. However, constant coaching turnover and institutional instability due to leadership issues has created a serious problem on North Broad.

Found the PFL reference...San Diego beat #25 NAU 41-10 in the playoffs in 2017 and #21 Cal Poly 35-21 in 2016.

[dbackjon]

People have tremendous respect for Jerry Kill, not NM State football and CUSA football. In the world of FBS football CUSA is the PFL. I'm sure I can find a situation where a PFL team beat a .500 or so FCS scholarship program (Auburn equivalent).

Temple football had value for a moment. However, constant coaching turnover and institutional instability due to leadership issues has created a serious problem on North Broad.

Massey Composite averages for 2023 - C-USA is barely behind the AAC, and well ahead of the MAC

SBC .............. 78.17
MW ............... 80.58
AAC .............. 92.14
CUSA ............ 92.66
MAC .............. 98.03


I guess this means that Temple plays in the Pioneer League as well?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Massey Composite averages for 2023 - C-USA is barely behind the AAC, and well ahead of the MAC

SBC .............. 78.17
MW ............... 80.58
AAC .............. 92.14
CUSA ............ 92.66
MAC .............. 98.03


I guess this means that Temple plays in the Pioneer League as well?

The AAC stinks too! At least the MAC has the MACtion brand that ESPN emphasizes...

How about Northern Arizona's 41-10 loss to Pioneer Rep San Diego in the playoffs? Or the Toreros playoff win over Cal Poly?

[dbackjon]

The AAC stinks too! At least the MAC has the MACtion brand that ESPN emphasizes...

How about Northern Arizona's 41-10 loss to Pioneer Rep San Diego in the playoffs? Or the Toreros playoff win over Cal Poly?

Let's look at OOC records versus other FBS schools

Sun Belt 20-22 47.6%
MWC 14-23 37.8%
CUSA 10-19 34.5%
MAC 10-26 27.8%
AAC 11-31 26.2% (with Navy-Army still to go)

As for NAU - I'm not the one calling the C-USA a Pioneer League of FBS. So not really relevant. You, being an AAC fan, dismissing a conference that is at the same level as the AAC, is relevant.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Let's look at OOC records versus other FBS schools

Sun Belt 20-22 47.6%
MWC 14-23 37.8%
CUSA 10-19 34.5%
MAC 10-26 27.8%
AAC 11-31 26.2% (with Navy-Army still to go)

As for NAU - I'm not the one calling the C-USA a Pioneer League of FBS. So not really relevant. You, being an AAC fan, dismissing a conference that is at the same level as the AAC, is relevant.

The AAC still has a slightly higher ceiling because there's 3-4 programs/coaches who have their stuff together; however the rest is generally a mess. Plus, basketball wise AAC is still considerably better which carries significant weight especially from a Temple perspective given the fact we are very much a hoops schools historically.

[GannonFan]

You just have to accept that UD is in what amounts to the Pioneer Football League of FBS. You are at the VERY bottom of the subdivision, grouped in with schools "noone" respects and consider a drain. I just hope UD fans that mocked the NEC, PFL, MEAC, SWAC etc. while being in FCS realize they are entering a world where they are now part of that group at the FBS level.

You're just letting the sour grapes of being a fan of Lehigh football (they do still play football at Goodman, correct?) and Temple football taint your view of things. FCS is already the Pioneer Football League of FBS - that's what all of those "money" games are every year when FCS schools get to trek to some FBS school for a 99% chance of being grinded into submission. We're there now. The only way to improve is to move up to FBS. Existing FBS conferences, the better ones, aren't looking for FCS transition teams to fill their ranks - they're looking for teams already established in FBS. If Delaware is ever going to be the part of any discussions, they have to already be in FBS to do it. Moving the CUSA accomplishes that. And almost no one thinks this is the last move for the next 25 years (or even 10 years). But once the tables get rearranged, if you didn't already have a seat at the able (i.e. FCS) you weren't going to magically get one once the tables get rearranged.

And as for the competitive landscape, there are 5 teams currently from "lesser" FBS conferences that reside in the AP top 25 today (Liberty, Tulane, Toledo, JMU, and SMU) - the Pioneer never had that impact on FCS.

[CHIP72]

RE: AAC vs Conference USA, it should be noted the G5 NY6 bowl game representative this season will likely be an AAC team.

Additionally, since the "New Year's Six" was created after the 2014 season, the AAC has provided the representative in 7 of the 9 previous seasons, including the each of the last 6 seasons. Two of the last four seasons the NY6 AAC representative was a team that is still currently in the AAC.

[DFW HOYA]

And as for the competitive landscape, there are 5 teams currently from "lesser" FBS conferences that reside in the AP top 25 today (Liberty, Tulane, Toledo, JMU, and SMU) - the Pioneer never had that impact on FCS.

C-USA is the Pioneer League of FBS: geographically disperse and not aligned for long term success.

[dbackjon]

And four others (Troy, NMSU, Miami (O) and Memphis) receiving votes

[POD Knows]

You're just letting the sour grapes of being a fan of Lehigh football (they do still play football at Goodman, correct?) and Temple football taint your view of things. FCS is already the Pioneer Football League of FBS - that's what all of those "money" games are every year when FCS schools get to trek to some FBS school for a 99% chance of being grinded into submission. We're there now. The only way to improve is to move up to FBS. Existing FBS conferences, the better ones, aren't looking for FCS transition teams to fill their ranks - they're looking for teams already established in FBS. If Delaware is ever going to be the part of any discussions, they have to already be in FBS to do it. Moving the CUSA accomplishes that. And almost no one thinks this is the last move for the next 25 years (or even 10 years). But once the tables get rearranged, if you didn't already have a seat at the able (i.e. FCS) you weren't going to magically get one once the tables get rearranged.

And as for the competitive landscape, there are 5 teams currently from "lesser" FBS conferences that reside in the AP top 25 today (Liberty, Tulane, Toledo, JMU, and SMU) - the Pioneer never had that impact on FCS.
Speak for yourself on that one, I KNOW that the top halves of both the MVFC and the Big Sky DO NOT equate themselves as the PFL to the FBS.

[dbackjon]

RE: AAC vs Conference USA, it should be noted the G5 NY6 bowl game representative this season will likely be an AAC team.

Additionally, since the "New Year's Six" was created after the 2014 season, the AAC has provided the representative in 7 of the 9 previous seasons, including the each of the last 6 seasons. Two of the last four seasons the NY6 AAC representative was a team that is still currently in the AAC.

Top team doesn't mean best conference overall. And of those representatives, most have left the AAC.

[CHIP72]

And as for the competitive landscape, there are 5 teams currently from "lesser" FBS conferences that reside in the AP top 25 today (Liberty, Tulane, Toledo, JMU, and SMU) - the Pioneer never had that impact on FCS.

The DI-AA/FCS Pioneer Football League is one conference; the DI-A/FBS G5 conferences are FIVE conferences. Of course five conferences are going to have more top 25 representation than one conference.

If you want to make a comparison that is sort of apples to apples, you need to add conferences like the NEC, Patriot League, and Ivy League to the Pioneer League and THEN compare those five conferences as a group to the G5 conferences in terms of top 25 teams in the DI-AA/FCS rankings vs top 25 teams in the DI-A/FBS rankings.

[CHIP72]

Top team doesn't mean best conference overall. And of those representatives, most have left the AAC.
How many Conference USA teams have been selected for a NY6 bowl game in the first 9 years of the NY6's existence? ZERO. The NY6 bowl game is arguably the highest profile and largest TV audience game a G5 team can play in during a given season. That enhances the profile of whatever league does so. (You also seemed to miss my comment about two of the last four NY6 AAC representatives still being current members of the AAC.)

I don't think the current AAC is that much better than C-USA myself, but I do agree with GLTUOwl that Conference USA is probably the worst or at least attractive of the G5 conferences presently. (IMO it is probably a little bit of an overstatement to call C-USA the Pioneer Football League of DI-A/FBS because the gap between the PFL and the rest of FCS is probably larger than the gap between C-USA and the rest of FBS. Having said that, if I were a Delaware fan, I'd much rather see the Blue Hens move to the Sun Belt or even the AAC - which has some schools that have lengthy and somewhat notable major college football histories, plus Temple and Navy are located nearby - or the MAC - UD wouldn't be as much of a geographic outlier - than Conference USA.)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You're just letting the sour grapes of being a fan of Lehigh football (they do still play football at Goodman, correct?) and Temple football taint your view of things. FCS is already the Pioneer Football League of FBS - that's what all of those "money" games are every year when FCS schools get to trek to some FBS school for a 99% chance of being grinded into submission. We're there now. The only way to improve is to move up to FBS. Existing FBS conferences, the better ones, aren't looking for FCS transition teams to fill their ranks - they're looking for teams already established in FBS. If Delaware is ever going to be the part of any discussions, they have to already be in FBS to do it. Moving the CUSA accomplishes that. And almost no one thinks this is the last move for the next 25 years (or even 10 years). But once the tables get rearranged, if you didn't already have a seat at the able (i.e. FCS) you weren't going to magically get one once the tables get rearranged.

And as for the competitive landscape, there are 5 teams currently from "lesser" FBS conferences that reside in the AP top 25 today (Liberty, Tulane, Toledo, JMU, and SMU) - the Pioneer never had that impact on FCS.

I'm speaking as someone who has a foot in the higher education door while pursuing my phd in student development in higher education (I applied and got accepted to a program at UD). I speak/work with administrators and faculty quite often. My lens is that of cultural/geographical/political/financial etc forces on program and individual goal setting and attainment. In this case it would be UD football.

I have no problem with programs who cost the institution money. In fact, those are the ones I am hoping to work towards preserving in some capacity should college athletics move to an employee model. In your opinion should the programs at UD that lose money be cut? Are you ok with perhaps dozens of potential UD student-athletes lose the opportunity to compete because UD is forced to cut their programs in favor of football? I care just as much, if not more, about the golfer as I do the football player. I just hope this move benefits the entire Hen community.

San Diego definitely had an impact on FCS, hell Colin Coward was literally just talking about Harbaugh's time there. And then they won 2 playoffs games without him. In fact if you throw the lesser programs under the same blanket, the SWAC, gets tremendous exposure! They just had a game on NBC, the annual Grambling vs Southern grudge match. The Celebration Bowl will be well attended too. The Patriot League has had several Top 10 teams including a national finalist. The OVC has teams that have competed on a relevant stage.

[dbackjon]

How many Conference USA teams have been selected for a NY6 bowl game in the first 9 years of the NY6's existence? ZERO. The NY6 bowl game is arguably the highest profile and largest TV audience game a G5 team can play in during a given season. That enhances the profile of whatever league does so. (You also seemed to miss my comment about two of the last four NY6 AAC representatives still being current members of the AAC.)

I don't think the current AAC is that much better than C-USA myself, but I do agree with GLTUOwl that Conference USA is probably the worst or at least attractive of the G5 conferences presently. (IMO it is probably a little bit of an overstatement to call C-USA the Pioneer Football League of DI-A/FBS because the gap between the PFL and the rest of FCS is probably larger than the gap between C-USA and the rest of FBS. Having said that, if I were a Delaware fan, I'd much rather see the Blue Hens move to the Sun Belt or even the AAC - which has some schools that have lengthy and somewhat notable major college football histories, plus Temple and Navy are located nearby - or the MAC - UD wouldn't be as much of a geographic outlier - than Conference USA.)

Liberty is likely the 2nd best G5, maybe the best G5.

But the committee is over-ranking the AAC

And the AAC of today isn't anywhere near what it was last year and before. Different conference

[Paladin1aa]

I view this as a risky move. With conference realignment and moves underway , big money is at stake, both for the institutions and TV. The power programs are going to gobble it all up leaving little for the dwarfs. Playing games on Tuesday or Wednesday nights, traveling all over the country ? Expensive and not sure on your return money. Add in the other sports and it gets even more expensive. I’m not going to a mid week night game. Traveling expenses ? Not me.

I expect the Power guys to suck up all the TV money leaving little for the remainder of D-I. The PAC -12 and Big -12 are a mess and the bloodletting isn’t over. Add in there is a drop in enrollment numbers as students evaluate the need for a degree or going big time into debt for a degree.

Good luck. Dont let the door hit you.

[Mountaineer]

You're just letting the sour grapes...

A tale as old as time when it comes to some members here. xlolx Congrats Hens on the FBS invite. Y'all will do just fine.

[caribbeanhen]

Speak for yourself on that one, I KNOW that the top halves of both the MVFC and the Big Sky DO NOT equate themselves as the PFL to the FBS.

but what if the top halves of the Big Sky and MVFC go FBS ?

[GannonFan]

I'm speaking as someone who has a foot in the higher education door while pursuing my phd in student development in higher education (I applied and got accepted to a program at UD). I speak/work with administrators and faculty quite often. My lens is that of cultural/geographical/political/financial etc forces on program and individual goal setting and attainment. In this case it would be UD football.

I have no problem with programs who cost the institution money. In fact, those are the ones I am hoping to work towards preserving in some capacity should college athletics move to an employee model. In your opinion should the programs at UD that lose money be cut? Are you ok with perhaps dozens of potential UD student-athletes lose the opportunity to compete because UD is forced to cut their programs in favor of football? I care just as much, if not more, about the golfer as I do the football player. I just hope this move benefits the entire Hen community.

San Diego definitely had an impact on FCS, hell Colin Coward was literally just talking about Harbaugh's time there. And then they won 2 playoffs games without him. In fact if you throw the lesser programs under the same blanket, the SWAC, gets tremendous exposure! They just had a game on NBC, the annual Grambling vs Southern grudge match. The Celebration Bowl will be well attended too. The Patriot League has had several Top 10 teams including a national finalist. The OVC has teams that have competed on a relevant stage.

I've always been very consistent that colleges pay way too much time and money on sports, especially sports that don't bring in money or fans to the university. You bring up golf, and yes, I don't know why a school necessarily needs to sponsor a golf team. Football and basketball are the big sports - people come out to them in large numbers and they pay money to do so. They also bring students out in large numbers. Depending on the school, there are other sports that do that same (volleyball for schools like Nebraska, baseball for schools like LSU, wrestling for schools like even Lehigh, etc). But if you have sports that don't bring out a student audience, don't bring in any money, and just look like another four years of high schools sports with just parents in attendance, then I do question why schools spend so much money on that (or any money really - the reality is even at the D1 level very few kids even get any appreciable money to play their sport outside of the headcount sports). How is a school better off to have a golf team that no one knows about and no one follows? I just don't see that as necessary. So yes, I do care more about the football player than I do the golf player. The former is much more an ambassador, or part of the front porch, of the school than the golfer is. College, at the end of the day, is still about the education. Revenue sports support that. I don't see the same about non-revenue sports.

[Mocs123]

I've always been very consistent that colleges pay way too much time and money on sports, especially sports that don't bring in money or fans to the university. You bring up golf, and yes, I don't know why a school necessarily needs to sponsor a golf team. Football and basketball are the big sports - people come out to them in large numbers and they pay money to do so. They also bring students out in large numbers. Depending on the school, there are other sports that do that same (volleyball for schools like Nebraska, baseball for schools like LSU, wrestling for schools like even Lehigh, etc). But if you have sports that don't bring out a student audience, don't bring in any money, and just look like another four years of high schools sports with just parents in attendance, then I do question why schools spend so much money on that (or any money really - the reality is even at the D1 level very few kids even get any appreciable money to play their sport outside of the headcount sports). How is a school better off to have a golf team that no one knows about and no one follows? I just don't see that as necessary. So yes, I do care more about the football player than I do the golf player. The former is much more an ambassador, or part of the front porch, of the school than the golfer is. College, at the end of the day, is still about the education. Revenue sports support that. I don't see the same about non-revenue sports.

I believe there are NCAA minimums (number of sports) for D1 schools - that is why you have mens Olympic sports. For women's sports it's largely to offset football scholarships for Title IX.

[ST_Lawson]

How does the number of Scholarships available and how they are used be worked around in this "relegation" idea? Plus a host of other rules that would cause headaches for teams bouncing between the 2 levels.

Scholarships wouldn't change...both "levels" would still be FBS, but there'd be like a "P5 Level" and "G5 Level" with relegation between them. You could take WSU, OSU, plus the 12 in the Mountain West and split them into "upper" and "lower" division. Maybe every two years, the top team (or 2 teams) in the "lower" division switch with the bottom team(s) in the "upper" division. Determined by combined record of those two years.


Maybe the answer is football only conferences, or maybe football/basketball conferences, and let the rest of your sports play in a more geographically friendly conference.

After seeing the Pac 12 break up and some of their members en route to having to send their non-revenue sports across the country to places like New Jersey and Maryland, that was my thought too.
Completely separate the football and basketball conferences from all the other sports.
Oregon and Washington can join the "Big 10 Football Conference" and fly all over the place for games, meanwhile the "olympic" sports have their much more "regional" conference with WSU, OSU, and some of the others in the area. Stanford goes to play football in the ACC, but joins up with the Big West for most of the rest of their sports.


I concur. The only conference that might make sense for the Big Sky and Dakota/western MVFC schools is the Mountain West, and I don't see that conference taking them. Having a group of the stronger MVFC/Big Sky Conference teams, especially those that are their state's flagships (both North Dakota schools, both South Dakota schools, both Montana schools, Idaho), is the best pathway for those schools to move to FBS, if they want to move up.

I think it depends on how the Pac 12 situation shakes out...if WSU and OSU end up getting all the remaining "resources". If that's the case, they may just invite the top 6-8 of the current MWC members to join them in a new PAC, leaving the remaining 4-6 MWC to scramble to find replacements...which could end up being Montana and Dakota Schools and Idaho. If they don't keep the PAC 12 name and licenses, then they may just merge it with the current MWC, and not call up any FCS teams.

[DSUrocks07]

Glad to see the "crabs in a barrel" mentality is still running strong [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[SeattleCat]

How does the number of Scholarships available and how they are used be worked around in this "relegation" idea? Plus a host of other rules that would cause headaches for teams bouncing between the 2 levels.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the scholarships, both leagues would be FBS so it'd be the same. the 2 levels would just be G5 and P5 with the top 2 G5's getting into the championship league the next season and the bottom 2 p5's get demoted. I think the biggest problem is guaranteed money, everyone wants to know how much money they're getting before hand.

[ElCid]

I believe there are NCAA minimums (number of sports) for D1 schools - that is why you have mens Olympic sports. For women's sports it's largely to offset football scholarships for Title IX.

In other words it's driven by artificialities imposed by outside forces, and not a natural result of demand or popularity. Got it.

[unknown-swac]

Bad move. CUSA is a trash conference.

This move smells a lot more like UMass than it does JMU.

Delaware to the Sun Belt or American I would totally get it. Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.

Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Sad.

- - - Updated - - -

Bad move. CUSA is a trash conference.

This move smells a lot more like UMass than it does JMU.

Delaware to the Sun Belt or American I would totally get it. Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.

Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Sad.

You guys still really don't get the fact that even the worst FBS conference is still a better option than whatever conference in FCS huh? How it's not apparent at this point I have no clue.

[unknown-swac]

Nothing more than being the occasional scalp bait. The best press they will get is when an FCS team beats them every once in a while. Given the current landscape, this smells of desperation hoping to get an FBS scrap every once in a while when it's dropped from the big boy table. But they will be as relevant as UMass, UConn, or GA So are. But you gotta think that they are thinking they will be a Boise St, to go back in time, or another JMU, recently. And even that may not last. You also have to wonder if they won't be a future Idaho. LOL. Best of luck with the travel budget to the deep south, Texas, and NM. And someone mentioned it, the cost is going to be hefty. I guess the students will pay the fees? A smarter decision would have been to wait and see what is going to happen to the whole sport given the big realignments. If the P5 breaks entirely away, a reorg of G5/FCS might be cheaper.

And they still get more press than FCS so these arguments are just silly.

[POD Knows]

but what if the top halves of the Big Sky and MVFC go FBS ?How is that going to happen, the MVFC most likely to move up is Mo State and it is purely a geographic move, as are ALL of these FCS moves to FBS. Hell, Murray State will get an FBS invite before NDSU. Where in the hell are teams from ND/MT/SD supposed to go?

[Gangtackle11]

Good for the Blew Hens. If they think that CUSA is the best option for their sports programs then so be it. It was great playing them every season in their favorite sport & even though Nova has dominated the series for going on 2 decades it still was a fun game to circle on the calendar each season!

I’m not sure what college football will look like in a few years or how many of the non-P5 will profit from
a sport where its athletes will get more & more of the revenue. I suspect the big schools will cut deals and leave most of the current FBS schools to feed off the leftovers. I worry that schools like Rutgers, Northwestern, & Wake Forest will find a similar fate as Stanford in the new world. Thus any G5 school current or making the move will find it very difficult to make a profit especially when those $1-$2 million guaranteed games go away.

Good Luck to all of you who root for the University of New-ark! It was nice knowing you & beating the hell out of ya more times than not!!

xpeacex

[nodak651]

You guys still really don't get the fact that even the worst FBS conference is still a better option than whatever conference in FCS huh? How it's not apparent at this point I have no clue.

Move to CUSA and be forced to play weekday FB games for an entire month and lose the ability to broadcast all games locally (and for some teams lose that local tv revenue as well). Increase travel budget, lose regional rivalries that help to drive attendance, increase coaching and scholarship costs, add title IX costs, in exchange for what, 800K maybe and a few games on CBSSN and ESPN U and espn+ streaming only? Not to mention, nothing really to play for. Oh, it costs 5 million to make that move as well. For teams with actual fan bases and decent local media, there's more to consider than just whoring your program out for P5 scraps. The Deleware move makes sense though, considering how poorly the CAA has been managed.

[Wolffan]

Now that their football rival has departed CAA, any chance Villanova accepts an invitation to the Patriot League for football (alongside Catholic brethren Holy Cross, Fordham, and Georgetown and fellow PAers Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell)?

[NDSU1980]

Congratulations to Delaware. At least you have leaders that know how to get something done and then do it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Now that their football rival has departed CAA, any chance Villanova accepts an invitation to the Patriot League for football (alongside Catholic brethren Holy Cross, Fordham, and Georgetown and fellow PAers Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell)?

Many of us hope. They can happily bring 2 or 3 more imo. UNH? Maine? URI? Stony Brook?

[Sitting Bull]

You guys still really don't get the fact that even the worst FBS conference is still a better option than whatever conference in FCS huh? How it's not apparent at this point I have no clue.

You apparently don’t watch the midweek games these conferences are forced to play. FCS schools can still pack crowds on a Saturday - why move to a neighborhood where ESPN dictates when and sometimes who you play?

You think everyone wants or fits into FBS, worse the septic tank end of it. That’s probably the lamest opinion in the whole thread.

[KPSUL]

Bad move. CUSA is a trash conference.

This move smells a lot more like UMass than it does JMU.

Delaware to the Sun Belt or American I would totally get it. Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.

Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Sad.

- - - Updated - - -

Bad move. CUSA is a trash conference.

This move smells a lot more like UMass than it does JMU.

Delaware to the Sun Belt or American I would totally get it. Of course, the AAC likely still believes it's "above" adding FCS programs.

Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Sad.

I agree; and it was important enough to say it twice!

[ElCid]

You guys still really don't get the fact that even the worst FBS conference is still a better option than whatever conference in FCS huh? How it's not apparent at this point I have no clue.

Not even close. Maybe you believe it, or have been conditioned to think so, but that doesn't make it so. Yes, that's my opinion, but it's based on observation. I can guarantee you that there are lots of teams in FCS that are more well known nationally than a good portion of the G5. And I'm not just talking about the Ivy. They probably have more sound sports financials than some of the G5 as well. G5 is a joke, and it's getting worse each year. They are like little brothers trying to act like they belong with the big kids. It funny, and sad, to watch.

[KPSUL]

but what if the top halves of the Big Sky and MVFC go FBS ?

The PAC XX Conference needs 8 or 10 teams pronto. Saddle up boys, and go west to the big time! As Horace Greeley once said, "Go West Young Man" (Horace Greeley personally never left the Northeast)

[ElCid]

You apparently don’t watch the midweek games these conferences are forced to play. FCS schools can still pack crowds on a Saturday - why move to a neighborhood where ESPN dictates when and sometimes who you play?

You think everyone wants or fits into FBS, worse the septic tank end of it. That’s probably the lamest opinion in the whole thread.

Moving up is like the Holy Grail to some. It's like they are trying to buy respectability. We all know how that ends. Doesn't matter the conditions. Doesn't matter if nobody even knows who they are. Doesn't matter the cost. I was watching a game with my dad a few weeks ago and flipping games and he saw a score with Jacksonville St. He said he had never even heard of them. Lol. He doesn't know most of the teams in G5. When I started rattling off other names he said he didn't know they even played football.

[Gangtackle11]

Now that their football rival has departed CAA, any chance Villanova accepts an invitation to the Patriot League for football (alongside Catholic brethren Holy Cross, Fordham, and Georgetown and fellow PAers Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell)?

I bet it will be discussed in our Athletic Department to some degree. The changing faces of the CAA may bring this to the forefront. I’ll let you know if I hear anything. xpeacex

[smilo]

Not even close. Maybe you believe it, or have been conditioned to think so, but that doesn't make it so. Yes, that's my opinion, but it's based on observation. I can guarantee you that there are lots of teams in FCS that are more well known nationally than a good portion of the G5. And I'm not just talking about the Ivy. They probably have more sound sports financials than some of the G5 as well. G5 is a joke, and it's getting worse each year. They are like little brothers trying to act like they belong with the big kids. It funny, and sad, to watch.

All that matters is gambling. Every MACtion team has it beat. Only a couple in C-USA might be lower. But I'm sure more people know Sam Houston State (3-9) than the old Sam Houston State (11-1).

[DFW HOYA]

Moving up is like the Holy Grail to some. It's like they are trying to buy respectability. We all know how that ends. Doesn't matter the conditions. Doesn't matter if nobody even knows who they are. Doesn't matter the cost. .

Correct--this is an issue with what used to be called the "directional" schools (e.g., Southwest Louisiana, North Texas, East Carolina, etc.) but it's now popular among schools below this level that seek a bump in state funding for now being a "big-time" school (Sam Houston State, Utah Tech, Kennesaw State, etc.) Delaware is an outlier because it is a flagship, but it was part of an era when Northeastern state schools were decidedly modest in funding and in expectations for football.

That was even the case for Rutgers. Here is its 1973 schedule:

09/22: at Lehigh
09/29: at Princeton
10/06: UMass
10/13: Lafayette
10/20: Delaware
10/27: Columbia
11/03: at UConn
11/10: at Air Force
11/17: at Holy Cross
11/24: Colgate
12/01: at Tampa

[dbackjon]

The PAC XX Conference needs 8 or 10 teams pronto. Saddle up boys, and go west to the big time! As Horace Greeley once said, "Go West Young Man" (Horace Greeley personally never left the Northeast)


But he did get a city in Colorado named after him that now boasts an FCS school ;)

[Sitting Bull]

Correct--this is an issue with what used to be called the "directional" schools (e.g., Southwest Louisiana, North Texas, East Carolina, etc.) but it's now popular among schools below this level that seek a bump in state funding for now being a "big-time" school (Sam Houston State, Utah Tech, Kennesaw State, etc.) Delaware is an outlier because it is a flagship, but it was part of an era when Northeastern state schools were decidedly modest in funding and in expectations for football.

That was even the case for Rutgers. Here is its 1973 schedule:

09/22: at Lehigh
09/29: at Princeton
10/06: Princeton
10/13: Lafayette
10/20: Delaware
10/27: Columbia
11/03: at UConn
11/10: at Air Force
11/17: at Holy Cross
11/24: Colgate
12/01: at Tampa

Rutgers is one of the most populated states in the USA with a vibrant high school network. They were just in waiting to play FBS football.

Delaware is one of the smallest states in the country. It’s not growing or getting any bigger. They would be a directional school in Virginia or Ohio,

[bonarae]

Will UD be the last of the big-time Eastern FCS schools to leave? Maybe. Will FCS be more stable and have more parity after the current move-uppers become playoff eligible and the NCAA tightens restrictions and conditions on switching subdivisions/divisions? Probably.

[ElCid]

Correct--this is an issue with what used to be called the "directional" schools (e.g., Southwest Louisiana, North Texas, East Carolina, etc.) but it's now popular among schools below this level that seek a bump in state funding for now being a "big-time" school (Sam Houston State, Utah Tech, Kennesaw State, etc.) Delaware is an outlier because it is a flagship, but it was part of an era when Northeastern state schools were decidedly modest in funding and in expectations for football.

That was even the case for Rutgers. Here is its 1973 schedule:

09/22: at Lehigh
09/29: at Princeton
10/06: Princeton
10/13: Lafayette
10/20: Delaware
10/27: Columbia
11/03: at UConn
11/10: at Air Force
11/17: at Holy Cross
11/24: Colgate
12/01: at Tampa

All good observations. Interesting schedule, but to be fair in comparison, these were all Div I (no IA/IAA at the time) except maybe Delaware. I think they were Div II then. Not sure what Tampa was. Rutgers has always been a mystery to me. Hugely rich recruiting ground and they have, and continue to, languish as an afterthought in P5. They've had two winning seasons in the last ten years.

[apaladin]

The more teams move up the more it will force the top FBS conferences to breakaway which will not be good for anyone except those teams, imagine that. They are not going to continue to give away a piece of the pie. FBS is not what it used to be and is not the road to glory for 9 of 10 teams. When you have teams with 8,000 seat stadiums waving the FBS flag that is not good and the big boys are not going to put up with it,

[Raven Maniac]

If Washington State and Oregon State raid the Mountain West to back fill the PAC 12, then that would open a prime opportunity for MSU, UM, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Idaho, Weber, NAU, UC Davis, Sac, CP to back fill the Mountain West.

Remember the PAC2 has no TV contract.


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[Raven Maniac]

IMO, UD basically deemphasized football after Keeler to the point they were longer capable of keeping up with the true elite of FCS. The move to CUSA allows the program to at least carry its weight financially while offering a bit more marketability. Unless there's a significant institutional culture change in Newark I don't see UD being a TRULY relevant FBS or G5 program. They're caught up too much in the I-95 wash for people to take them more seriously as a CUSA program than if they remained in FCS. In fact, weeknight games against UTEP, MTSU, FIU etc likely won't be the equivalent of a Saturday FCS matchup with URI or Stony Brook.

This is nothing more than justifying the cost/burden of the program imo.

You need to consider television in the midweek audience.


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[OhioHen]

but what if the top halves of the Big Sky and MVFC go FBS ?
Immediately better than the current CUSA and the Sun Belt of five years ago.

[KPSUL]

Rutgers is one of the most populated states in the USA with a vibrant high school network. They were just in waiting to play FBS football.

Delaware is one of the smallest states in the country. It’s not growing or getting any bigger. They would be a directional school in Virginia or Ohio,

Does that mean William and Mary is a directional school ? Smaller in size, not getting bigger and publicly funded.

[Sitting Bull]

Does that mean William and Mary is a directional school ? Smaller in size, not getting bigger and publicly funded.

Not really since we gave birth to both VCU and ODU. So definitely statewide and nationally renowned along with a national history in education. As a statewide university, it’s also in a large, growing state.

[bulldog10jw]

Correct--this is an issue with what used to be called the "directional" schools (e.g., Southwest Louisiana, North Texas, East Carolina, etc.) but it's now popular among schools below this level that seek a bump in state funding for now being a "big-time" school (Sam Houston State, Utah Tech, Kennesaw State, etc.) Delaware is an outlier because it is a flagship, but it was part of an era when Northeastern state schools were decidedly modest in funding and in expectations for football.

That was even the case for Rutgers. Here is its 1973 schedule:

09/22: at Lehigh
09/29: at Princeton
10/06: Princeton
10/13: Lafayette
10/20: Delaware
10/27: Columbia
11/03: at UConn
11/10: at Air Force
11/17: at Holy Cross
11/24: Colgate
12/01: at Tampa

I'm guessing Princeton and Rutgers did not have a home and home in football back then. Especially since Princeton only had two OOC games total.

[DFW HOYA]

All good observations. Interesting schedule, but to be fair in comparison, these were all Div I (no IA/IAA at the time) except maybe Delaware. I think they were Div II then. Not sure what Tampa was. Rutgers has always been a mystery to me. Hugely rich recruiting ground and they have, and continue to, languish as an afterthought in P5. They've had two winning seasons in the last ten years.

Lehigh, Lafayette, UConn, UMass, and Delaware were Div. II, all others (including Tampa) were Division I.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/rutgers/1973-schedule.html

[Puddin Tane]

In 5 years, just might be -

todays P5 splits off from ncaa and goes to legal paying of and for players, todays G5 will be the P5, fcs schools with any money will be FBS G5. Poorer schools will remain FCS. Its madness and it sucks.

[ElCid]

In 5 years, just might be -

todays P5 splits off from ncaa and goes to legal paying of and for players, todays G5 will be the P5, fcs schools with any money will be FBS G5. Poorer schools will remain FCS. Its madness and it sucks.

Actually, if P5 does break away, shedding the also rans, bottom feeders in each conf, I think that Div I will reorganize. There may not be an FCS/FBS as it is today. The G5 will realize they were duped and were never going to be allowed to achieve equality. That may make them bitter, but with the P5 gone and no voting rights, the FCS will have more power. Something to ponder.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Wow - you are WAY off the mark. Would the Pioneer League beat the FCS equivalents of Auburn? C-USA isn't the top of the G5, for sure, but far above the level you are claiming.

Don't worry, if Temple hadn't gotten the golden Big East football ticket years ago, they'd be in the C-USA themselves. No one respects or wants Temple football.

To be fair, Temple did have to earn it to some degree. They were in the Big East for football only from 1991 until about 2004, when they were kicked out and effectively replaced by UConn. There was talk about dropping to the I-AA A-10 in football or dropping the program altogether. Ultimately, Temple joined the MAC and slowly built the program back up. Not sure if they won a title, but they became a contender in the MAC after a few years. Then, right before the whole Big East split was happening, they were invited back as an all-sports member. However, the split was finalized before they would play even one Big East game in basketball or football. They ended up on the AAC side of the split, as the Big East proper became comprised only of the true basketball schools. It's my understanding that the AAC is happier with Temple than Temple is happy with the AAC. Pretty sure they'd love to be in there for football only and go back to the A-10 in basketball.

[ngineer]

Mistake in my opinion. No tradition. No real rivalries. No fun.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Will UD be the last of the big-time Eastern FCS schools to leave? Maybe. Will FCS be more stable and have more parity after the current move-uppers become playoff eligible and the NCAA tightens restrictions and conditions on switching subdivisions/divisions? Probably.

I doubt it. Pretty sure this will lead to more "get-to-the-chopper-ism". Why not Towson to FBS at this point? Or Missouri State, Chattanooga, Jackson State or Florida A&M? Throw UT-Rio Grande in there as well.

[MR. CHICKEN]

You need to consider television in the midweek audience.


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...IFIN' IT'S 30 MINUTES....WHIFF DUH CONNORS...OR 3 1/2 HOURS......WHIFF DUH MAC/C-USA......7:30 TA 11:00.....WILL BE UH GREAT ENDIN'.....FO' DUH DAY........BRAWK!

ps.....NO ROOM ON MAH SET.....FO'ALL DUH SHOWS....WHIFF JUDGES......WHOM GIVE CONTESTANTS........MINUTE 30.......THEN HOG 2 1/2 FO' THEMSELVES.....DOODLE-DOO!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Mistake in my opinion. No tradition. No real rivalries. No fun.

Agreed. And people keep comparing this to JMU. JMU waited ten years to make the perfect move and then jumped on it. Delaware is joining a conference of warm bodies hoping to be picked to promote to whatever league becomes the 2nd worst. And this strategy hasn't always worked out. Ask MTSU and Western Kentucky how they feel now about having "stepped up" from the then FBS dungeon Sun Belt to the now laughingstock Conference USA.

The Delaware move smells a lot more like UMass than it does James Madison. Only thing they have going their way that UMass doesn't is that they don't have to worry about their football aspirations costing them membership to a prestigious basketball conference.

[Cocky]

Glad to have UD as a conference mate soon

Pioneer League, if so then all G5 is Pioneer League quality. I would call it FCS quality of a few years back.

G5 is what DII was in the 70s and FCS was in 90-10s. Just zero chance (or real close) to the ability to play for a NC.

According to Atlanta Journal Constitution article with the Kennesaw AD, the media money is a little over 2 million for CUSA members. Which is only behind AAC and MWC. Would assume adding UD was wanted by TV and will include an increase.

Hopefully the Dakotas and Montanas will get an opportunity to go FBS if that is their desire.

Missouri St, I think the SBC will invite them at some point. Not any CUSA or MAC teams wanting to move so most adds will have to be FCS for any conference EKU has stated a desire to move to FBS and maybe another option for a conference. Then the independents UMASS and UCONN, but basketball seems to be a problem.

Will not be long and all of these conferences will bust up and a few more opportunites will open up. And something has to give in the Pac2 situation at some point.

[Franks Tanks]

Actually, if P5 does break away, shedding the also rans, bottom feeders in each conf, I think that Div I will reorganize. There may not be an FCS/FBS as it is today. The G5 will realize they were duped and were never going to be allowed to achieve equality. That may make them bitter, but with the P5 gone and no voting rights, the FCS will have more power. Something to ponder.

Agree 100%. The vast majority of the current G5 schools will realize they will never have access to the big boy table. There are a few who made the move and may have a chance… a big money booster school like SMU, such as Tulane, or a state school that had grown by leaps and bounds…maybe a FAU or UTSA in a decade or two. The G5 will have a clear delineation from the big boys, and non-conference games for them the Power schools will become more and more limited. They will ask why are we playing conference games against schools 1,000 miles away that our fans don’t care about. Without the lure of being in the same division of Penn State and Notre Dame, what value will Delaware see in playing conference games against New Mexico State and LA Tech?

[Go...gate]

I had heard rumblings but now it's official. Damn.. First JMU, now the Blue Hens in '25 and with annual games against Richmond and William & Mary no longer guaranteed, it's time for the Cats to bolt the island of misfit toys known as the CAA. Time to form that new FCS football-only conference that's been discussed on AGS ad nauseum under the banner of the A-10 or America East. Or failing that time to join the Patriot League..

I hope Center Valley, PA is paying attention to this development.

[HootyHoo]

A lot of coping in this thread, all the talk of the P5 and G5 splitting up is nonsense. The expansion of the playoff to 12 teams is the first step in G5 access to the National Championship.

The FCS isn’t dying, it’s dead. The Dakota and Montana schools killed it; holding the division ransom and stacking the deck so much in their favor that where was no sense in any other serious football programs outside the region trying to compete.

If you can’t beat them, abandon them and leave them to whither in the wilderness.

[Go...gate]

Now that their football rival has departed CAA, any chance Villanova accepts an invitation to the Patriot League for football (alongside Catholic brethren Holy Cross, Fordham, and Georgetown and fellow PAers Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell)?

I'm thinking the same thing; in the alternative, I'm thinking Fordham will be heading to the CAA for football.

[GannonFan]

Mistake in my opinion. No tradition. No real rivalries. No fun.

Well, considering the schedule UD had this year (NC A&T, Dusquesne, Campbell, Elon, St Francis, and Hampton, and teams we didn't play like Monmouth and Bryant) we were already there with no tradition, no real rivalries, and no fun.

[Go...gate]

Correct--this is an issue with what used to be called the "directional" schools (e.g., Southwest Louisiana, North Texas, East Carolina, etc.) but it's now popular among schools below this level that seek a bump in state funding for now being a "big-time" school (Sam Houston State, Utah Tech, Kennesaw State, etc.) Delaware is an outlier because it is a flagship, but it was part of an era when Northeastern state schools were decidedly modest in funding and in expectations for football.

That was even the case for Rutgers. Here is its 1973 schedule:

09/22: at Lehigh
09/29: at Princeton
10/06: UMass
10/13: Lafayette
10/20: Delaware
10/27: Columbia
11/03: at UConn
11/10: at Air Force
11/17: at Holy Cross
11/24: Colgate
12/01: at Tampa


I attended many of those games. It was a very different world.

[bonarae]

St Mary's was good when they had football, but they're still a mid-major in the shadows of Gonzaga. The Eastern schools have cratered --if Fairfield had football today they'd be a PL team.

And all of them have totally moved on from football -- a la Wichita State, Pacific Tigers, etc.

[caribbeanhen]

How is that going to happen, the MVFC most likely to move up is Mo State and it is purely a geographic move, as are ALL of these FCS moves to FBS. Hell, Murray State will get an FBS invite before NDSU. Where in the hell are teams from ND/MT/SD supposed to go?

Well if Delaware can play in El Paso and Huntsville Texas, Ruston Louisiana and flipping New Mexico Why can’t The Dakotas?

[Bisonoline]

Well if Delaware can play in El Paso and Huntsville Texas, Ruston Louisiana and flipping New Mexico Why can’t The Dakotas?

You have to be invited to play there.

[caribbeanhen]

You have to be invited to play there.

True but do the Bison want an invitation ?

[Sitting Bull]

Well, considering the schedule UD had this year (NC A&T, Dusquesne, Campbell, Elon, St Francis, and Hampton, and teams we didn't play like Monmouth and Bryant) we were already there with no tradition, no real rivalries, and no fun.

Stop acting like Duquesne and St Francis are somehow FCS/CAA related. You blustering bozos set your own OOC schedules. You could have scheduled anyone you want. We know you don’t like MEAC schools and if you can’t live with Elon and Campbell, beat it,

[caribbeanhen]

I attended many of those games. It was a very different world.

sure was, students actually liked the football games back then

[Franks Tanks]

A lot of coping in this thread, all the talk of the P5 and G5 splitting up is nonsense. The expansion of the playoff to 12 teams is the first step in G5 access to the National Championship.

The FCS isn’t dying, it’s dead. The Dakota and Montana schools killed it; holding the division ransom and stacking the deck so much in their favor that where was no sense in any other serious football programs outside the region trying to compete.

If you can’t beat them, abandon them and leave them to whither in the wilderness.
In no time college football will be the Big 10, SEC, ACC and Big 12 playing all in conference games, save for maybe one or two yearly home game cupcakes. But, what I think will happen is the G5 will just about be completely shut out as networks will push for “marquee” non conference matchups for ratings. Schools won’t be so afraid to schedule another power school OOC with the 12 team playoff.

The 12 team playoff has nothing to do with the G5, and there may be one in per year as lip service, until the big boys decide it’s not even worth it.

G5 and FCS will only differ in the number of scholarships and bowl games vs. playoffs. Neither of us will have any access to playing the big programs. If your peers schools/long time rivals are G5, then yes it makes sense, but it’s not doing much for a program otherwise.

[TJT]

As a fan of a northern CAA football only affiliate, I would like to see the northern affiliates break away and reformulate a version of the original Yankee Conference. The new adds to the CAA have made the league far less attractive and lessens the reasons to stay.

[CHIP72]

In 5 years, just might be -

todays P5 splits off from ncaa and goes to legal paying of and for players, todays G5 will be the P5, fcs schools with any money will be FBS G5. Poorer schools will remain FCS. Its madness and it sucks.

If “legal paying of and for players” is over the table and considered “professional”, those P5 schools forming their own association outside the NCAA may be subject to (federal law) 15 U.S. Code Chapter 32, Section 1293, better known as a component of the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961.

That law, which the NFL lobbied for passage so it could have TV contracts covering the entire league and not have the contracts violate antitrust law, contains a provision that functionally prohibits pro football games (or more accurately, “a substantial part of any pro football game”) from being televised after 6 PM local time (functionally 6 PM Eastern Time) on Fridays and anytime on Saturdays between the second Friday in September and the second Saturday in December. It is the primary reason why the NFL does not play Friday night or (especially) Saturday games during most of its season (and for that matter is the reason why the league’s recent Black Friday game started at 3 PM ET).


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[Go Green]

As a fan of a northern CAA football only affiliate, I would like to see the northern affiliates break away and reformulate a version of the original Yankee Conference. The new adds to the CAA have made the league far less attractive and lessens the reasons to stay.

Why not just have the legacy Yankee Conference teams join the Patriot League? IHMO, that's a better fit than the newer northern members of the current CAA.

[GannonFan]

Stop acting like Duquesne and St Francis are somehow FCS/CAA related. You blustering bozos set your own OOC schedules. You could have scheduled anyone you want. We know you don’t like MEAC schools and if you can’t live with Elon and Campbell, beat it,

Hey, Duquesne and St Francis were the better ones on the schedule. And yes, MEAC throw-offs are not terribly good competition, and we didn't want to live with Campbell. We were there this year, nice complex, but just a step above high school facilities. That is why we are "beating" it. I'm sure we'll see W&M occasionally, in Newark only, as an OOC opponent so we'll see you guys from time to time.

[TJT]

Why not just have the legacy Yankee Conference teams join the Patriot League? IHMO, that's a better fit than the newer northern members of the current CAA.


You somehow missed the other similar type option of the legacy YC teams joining the Ivy League.

[GannonFan]

Why not just have the legacy Yankee Conference teams join the Patriot League? IHMO, that's a better fit than the newer northern members of the current CAA.

Would the Patriot even want them? Some of those schools are bigger state schools (Maine, UNH, URI) and others put more money into football than the current Patriot League (W&M, Richmond, nova). What's in it for the current Patriot League members to bring these schools in and have more competition for the auto-bid?

[Franks Tanks]

Would the Patriot even want them? Some of those schools are bigger state schools (Maine, UNH, URI) and others put more money into football than the current Patriot League (W&M, Richmond, nova). What's in it for the current Patriot League members to bring these schools in and have more competition for the auto-bid?

Last I saw, Fordham, Colgate and Lafayette were spending an obscene amount on football, with Holy Cross and Lehigh not far behind. Cross has likely increased a bunch recently too. Really, Bucknell and Georgetown are the only low spenders in the league and I’d venture to guess the 3 schools you mention have budgets in line with the bulk of the PL.

[ysubigred]

Bye Falicia,, can't win **** at this level.. mine as well go cheap toilet bowl conference..

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[LUHawker]

Last I saw, Fordham, Colgate and Lafayette were spending an obscene amount on football, with Holy Cross and Lehigh not far behind. Cross has likely increased a bunch recently too. Really, Bucknell and Georgetown are the only low spenders in the league and I’d venture to guess the 3 schools you mention have budgets in line with the bulk of the PL.

The reason the PL schools, in general, spend an obscene amount of money is because they are all private and all expensive, so the cost of scholarships is big $$$. It's generally not being spent on coaching staff salaries and the like. Compare that to NDSU, which is a state school, so tuition is much lower, but they are spending big bucks on staff and the program overall.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Stop acting like Duquesne and St Francis are somehow FCS/CAA related. You blustering bozos set your own OOC schedules. You could have scheduled anyone you want. We know you don’t like MEAC schools and if you can’t live with Elon and Campbell, beat it,

We get it. You hate G5 football. Like it or not, the FCS is a dying patient. Delaware understands that reality.

[Sitting Bull]

We get it. You hate G5 football. Like it or not, the FCS is a dying patient. Delaware understands that reality.

When FCS schools are forced to have to play their games on weeknights just to try and pay the bills and make it work, then I would be concerned.

[Sitting Bull]

Hey, Duquesne and St Francis were the better ones on the schedule. And yes, MEAC throw-offs are not terribly good competition, and we didn't want to live with Campbell. We were there this year, nice complex, but just a step above high school facilities. That is why we are "beating" it. I'm sure we'll see W&M occasionally, in Newark only, as an OOC opponent so we'll see you guys from time to time.

As long as we can play UVA, Navy, UNC, Stanford - all upcoming schedules - I don’t think you’ll be seeing the Tribe in Newark anytime soon.

I will miss the UD games in Williamsburg. The games were always good, exciting and always a nice contingent of Blue Hen fans.

[GannonFan]

As long as we can play UVA, Navy, UNC, Stanford - all upcoming schedules - I don’t think you’ll be seeing the Tribe in Newark anytime soon.

I will miss the UD games in Williamsburg. The games were always good, exciting and always a nice contingent of Blue Hen fans.

Heck, UD only had W&M on the schedule twice since 2017 - that was the growing problem with the CAA - too many games against the likes of NC A&T, Cambell, Monmouth, and Bryant coming into the fold, and less against the traditional rivals from back in the day. I'm not worried, we'll see you eventually.

[GannonFan]

The reason the PL schools, in general, spend an obscene amount of money is because they are all private and all expensive, so the cost of scholarships is big $$$. It's generally not being spent on coaching staff salaries and the like. Compare that to NDSU, which is a state school, so tuition is much lower, but they are spending big bucks on staff and the program overall.

That's up to the school. The marginal cost to a school for a football player is not the listed tuition cost for that school. The school is paying itself. How it wants to account for that bookkeeping is up to them, but it's not the real cost you're claiming here.

[ElCid]

Heck, UD only had W&M on the schedule twice since 2017 - that was the growing problem with the CAA - too many games against the likes of NC A&T, Cambell, Monmouth, and Bryant coming into the fold, and less against the traditional rivals from back in the day. I'm not worried, we'll see you eventually.

Hmm. Nothing like having games against lesser competition to increase your record come playoff time. The mega (size) conferences all know this. They know the general long-term strength of most schools and schedule accordingly. Having to play only half of the usual upper crust of a conference is just a way to get to 8-3 or 9-2 more easily. It's not like it is a secret. The Big Sky was the template and the CAA decided to follow suit. It's not as bad with the MVFC, but any conf where you can skip a team benefits.

[CHIP72]

When FCS schools are forced to have to play their games on weeknights just to try and pay the bills and make it work, then I would be concerned.

How many times was William & Mary broadcast on a national TV network (not a streaming service like ESPN+ or FloSports but an actual TV network) in 2023? How many times were the CAA teams as a group televised on such a network?

You can see the D1 (football) teams I follow over to the left (if you are posting on the AGS desktop site). The four DI-AA/FCS teams (Lehigh, Lafayette, Penn, Villanova) were on a national TV network one time combined (a Penn appearance on ESPNU in late October). By contrast, Temple, a below average G5 team coming off consecutive 3-9 seasons (and ultimately posting a 3rd straight 3-9 season), was televised on a national TV five times in 2023. Four of those five games were shown on either ESPN or ESPN2.

The much higher visibility that even G5 teams receive relative to FCS teams is a major reason why so many former DI-AA/FCS teams, especially FCS teams in non-isolated parts of the U.S., have made the move to DI-A/FBS in the last 10-15 years.


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[DFW HOYA]

The much higher visibility that even G5 teams receive relative to FCS teams is a major reason why so many former DI-AA/FCS teams, especially FCS teams in non-isolated parts of the U.S., have made the move to DI-A/FBS in the last 10-15 years.


With the exception of Liberty, every one of these moves has been from state-supported schools. There's a reason why Villanova, Richmond, Drake, or Georgetown aren't jumping at the same opportunity: there's no influx of state money to cover the shortfalls.

[POD Knows]

A lot of coping in this thread, all the talk of the P5 and G5 splitting up is nonsense. The expansion of the playoff to 12 teams is the first step in G5 access to the National Championship.

The FCS isn’t dying, it’s dead. The Dakota and Montana schools killed it; holding the division ransom and stacking the deck so much in their favor that where was no sense in any other serious football programs outside the region trying to compete.

If you can’t beat them, abandon them and leave them to whither in the wilderness.Your ****ty football team was basically irrelevant in FCS and you will just as obscure in the G5, the more things change, they more they remain the same. The 3 and 6 KSU, with no wins against D1's this past year. I am amazed you even show your face around here. :D Freaking clown show

[AshevilleApp2]

Congratulations to Delaware for the invite and pending move to FBS. I wouldn't be too concerned about the status of CUSA vs other G5 conferences. When App and Georgia Southern made the move, the same criticisms were made about the Sun Belt, and CUSA was the desired landing spot. Things change quickly.

[Sitting Bull]

Heck, UD only had W&M on the schedule twice since 2017 - that was the growing problem with the CAA - too many games against the likes of NC A&T, Cambell, Monmouth, and Bryant coming into the fold, and less against the traditional rivals from back in the day. I'm not worried, we'll see you eventually.

Very true. It should have been annual. Whenever the schedule was released and no Delaware, you just had to hope it was a one year thing.

I will say the Elon games they’ve kept annual for W&M have been good. Even though we have choked two years in a row. They’ve become a meaningful rival like UD. Not far, beautiful campus and they also bring growing number of fans to Williamsburg.

[Sitting Bull]

How many times was William & Mary broadcast on a national TV network (not a streaming service like ESPN+ or FloSports but an actual TV network) in 2023? How many times were the CAA teams as a group televised on such a network?

You can see the D1 (football) teams I follow over to the left (if you are posting on the AGS desktop site). The four DI-AA/FCS teams (Lehigh, Lafayette, Penn, Villanova) were on a national TV network one time combined (a Penn appearance on ESPNU in late October). By contrast, Temple, a below average G5 team coming off consecutive 3-9 seasons (and ultimately posting a 3rd straight 3-9 season), was televised on a national TV five times in 2023. Four of those five games were shown on either ESPN or ESPN2.

The much higher visibility that even G5 teams receive relative to FCS teams is a major reason why so many former DI-AA/FCS teams, especially FCS teams in non-isolated parts of the U.S., have made the move to DI-A/FBS in the last 10-15 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who cares is my point. If I’m going to watch college football on TV, I’ll watch the big games. I enjoy going to games over the weekend and don’t care if they’re on TV. W&M like most in FCS aren’t playing for exposure.

Trying to equate that with midweek football games to be relevant or for exposure is so different. The reality is these games aren’t scheduled for exposure, it’s for the money they need to float programs trying to compete at FBS levels. And if you ever watch most of these midweek games with empty stadiums and screaming ESPN announcers, you have to wonder if that’s the exposure you want,

[Franks Tanks]

The reason the PL schools, in general, spend an obscene amount of money is because they are all private and all expensive, so the cost of scholarships is big $$$. It's generally not being spent on coaching staff salaries and the like. Compare that to NDSU, which is a state school, so tuition is much lower, but they are spending big bucks on staff and the program overall.

I agree, but we were talking about Nova, Richmond and W&M in comparison to PL budgets. Nova and Richmond have similar tutition.

[rhowdyram]

I had heard rumblings but now it's official. Damn.. First JMU, now the Blue Hens in '25 and with annual games against Richmond and William & Mary no longer guaranteed, it's time for the Cats to bolt the island of misfit toys known as the CAA. Time to form that new FCS football-only conference that's been discussed on AGS ad nauseum under the banner of the A-10 or America East. Or failing that time to join the Patriot League..

It really is time for a split between:

CAA (Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Monmouth, North Carolina A&T, Stony Brook, Towson, William & Mary) and

"New Yankee" (Albany, Bryant, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Richmond, Villanova)

That creates smaller, more regional conferences that can play a round robin format for their conference championship. If you're worried that it creates a schedule that's too soft you can do a "challenge" the second to last week of the regular season where the top seed in the CAA plays the top seed in "New Yankee" and so on down the line.

[rhowdyram]

When is the College of Charleston to the A-10 will be finalized?

Lord willing, the day after the day the world ends. The A10 is already watered down way too much. We don't need more schools, we need to chop schools.

[rhowdyram]

So C-USA clearly going to be looking for a 12th member....is it Missouri State's time finally?

As for Delaware...they need the UMass deal with the A-10. And maybe Temple does too. I can't see how this goes any better than either of those programs. Their only hope is to play each other in the long run. Honestly, this sounds like a disaster. A decade of sacrifice.

- - - Updated - - -

So C-USA clearly going to be looking for a 12th member....is it Missouri State's time finally?

As for Delaware...they need the UMass deal with the A-10. And maybe Temple does too. I can't see how this goes any better than either of those programs. Their only hope is to play each other in the long run. Honestly, this sounds like a disaster. A decade of sacrifice.

Delaware doesn't bring nearly enough to the table in men's basketball for the A10 to allow them in as an all sports but football member. UMass has that deal because they've always been an A10 member. Temple has their own history with the A10 as well.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Who cares is my point. If I’m going to watch college football on TV, I’ll watch the big games. I enjoy going to games over the weekend and don’t care if they’re on TV. W&M like most in FCS aren’t playing for exposure.

Trying to equate that with midweek football games to be relevant or for exposure is so different. The reality is these games aren’t scheduled for exposure, it’s for the money they need to float programs trying to compete at FBS levels. And if you ever watch most of these midweek games with empty stadiums and screaming ESPN announcers, you have to wonder if that’s the exposure you want,

CAMERAS ARE SET UP....ON DUH HOME SIDE.....AIMED @ AWAY SIDE.......MAH DAUGHTER & FAMILY......LIVE IN CYPRESS TEXAS........HER & FAMILY & FRIENDS....WENT TA CINCINNATI/HOUSTON COUPLE WEEKS AGO......SHE CALLED FROM THE STADIUM...TO REMIND ME TA WATCH.......WAS ALREADY WATCHIN'....AN' AH SAID.....DOESN'T LOOK LIKE LOTTA FANS.....SHE SAID THE HOME SIDE IS PACKED......2003...DELAWARE WAS DEEMED HOME TEAM IN 'NOOGAH.......ESPN ASKED US TA SIT ON AWAY SIDE.....AS COLGATE MAY HAVE HAD 2,000 FANS.........AH WATCH GAMES DURIN' DUH WEEK.....'CAUSE AH LIKE FOOTBALL.....EVEN TA DUH POINT.....AH'M TUNED IN ON THURSDAY MEAC/SWAC GAMES.......JES' CHECK DUH SCORE THREAD.......AN' AH GOTTAH BELIEVE AH'M NOT ALONE..........SO WATCH DUH BIG GAMES.......BUT COME TUES/WEDS/THURS.......EXCITIN' GAMES DO EXIST......BRAWK!

[NHwildEcat]

It really is time for a split between:

CAA (Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Monmouth, North Carolina A&T, Stony Brook, Towson, William & Mary) and

"New Yankee" (Albany, Bryant, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Richmond, Villanova)

That creates smaller, more regional conferences that can play a round robin format for their conference championship. If you're worried that it creates a schedule that's too soft you can do a "challenge" the second to last week of the regular season where the top seed in the CAA plays the top seed in "New Yankee" and so on down the line.

Just need one more for the New Yankee conference. I love the idea though.

[Ridge1982]

When someone leaves someone else will rise and take their place. The FCS will survive.

[Sir William]

Asking this mainly of CAA and Patriot League fans (both of whom would be somewhat better in the know than the rest of us):

With UD on the move...
What's the true likelihood that Patriot invites Villanova for FB and Wildcats accept?
And if above were to happen, would Patriot also likely invite W&M for all sports, and would they accept?
And if above, where would that leave Richmond FB? More likely to stay in CAA or also make move to Patriot?

Is any of this plausible? Personally, I don't think the dust has settled in the CAA with the departures of JMU and now UD.

[FUBeAR]

It really is time for a split between:

CAA (Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Monmouth, North Carolina A&T, Stony Brook, Towson, William & Mary) and

"New Yankee" (Albany, Bryant, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Richmond, Villanova)

That creates smaller, more regional conferences that can play a round robin format for their conference championship. If you're worried that it creates a schedule that's too soft you can do a "challenge" the second to last week of the regular season where the top seed in the CAA plays the top seed in "New Yankee" and so on down the line.
You know where Richmond is located, right?

This is not the one in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, y'know.

Besides that...it's just wrong to have Richmond captured in something called "Yankee"

Swap Monmouth and Richmond...FUBeAR will sleep better.

[MR. CHICKEN]

xdontknowx
Asking this mainly of CAA and Patriot League fans (both of whom would be somewhat better in the know than the rest of us):

With UD on the move...
What's the true likelihood that Patriot invites Villanova for FB and Wildcats accept?
And if above were to happen, would Patriot also likely invite W&M for all sports, and would they accept?
And if above, where would that leave Richmond FB? More likely to stay in CAA or also make move to Patriot?

Is any of this plausible? Personally, I don't think the dust has settled in the CAA with the departures of JMU and now UD.



IFIN' DELAWARE DIDN'T WANT DUH MEACS/CAMPBELL/BRYANT.......STANDS TA REASON.....'NOVA/WM & MARY/RICHMOND WOODN'T EITHER......SO WHO VOTED....FOR....DIS CONGLOMERATE.......xdontknowx......BRAWK?

ps.......MAINE JEFF....NOT HAPPY......TAKIN' AWAYS....TA CAMPBELL.....DOODLE-DOO

[rhowdyram]

You know where Richmond is located, right?

This is not the one in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, y'know.

Besides that...it's just wrong to have Richmond captured in something called "Yankee"

Swap Monmouth and Richmond...FUBeAR will sleep better.

Boy howdy, do I have some info about their football conference affiliation from 1986 to 1996 that will blow your mind...

Honestly that's just a placeholder name. I'd prefer to form an independent football conference if rules allow then align under the America East or Atlantic 10 banners, because then you could up with a similar situation the CAA has now where if a conference member already has or adds football then you automatically have to add them to the league.

[ngineer]

Well, considering the schedule UD had this year (NC A&T, Dusquesne, Campbell, Elon, St Francis, and Hampton, and teams we didn't play like Monmouth and Bryant) we were already there with no tradition, no real rivalries, and no fun.


Don't disagree with the overall view; however, to me, the core of the CAA was the old Yankee Conference schools, which had developed rivalries of familiarity: Wm & Mary, Richmond, UNH, URI, ME and 'nova. I think 'nova could make a smooth transition to the Patriot in all sports, except Bball; similar to Army and Navy being all sports members, except for football.

[CHIP72]

Asking this mainly of CAA and Patriot League fans (both of whom would be somewhat better in the know than the rest of us):

With UD on the move...
What's the true likelihood that Patriot invites Villanova for FB and Wildcats accept?
And if above were to happen, would Patriot also likely invite W&M for all sports, and would they accept?
And if above, where would that leave Richmond FB? More likely to stay in CAA or also make move to Patriot?

Is any of this plausible? Personally, I don't think the dust has settled in the CAA with the departures of JMU and now UD.

I think Villanova moving to the Patriot League for football within the next 3-5 years is a reasonable possibility. Villanova fits academically with the PL and is within its geographic footprint. It would have nearby games with Lehigh and Lafayette, another relatively close in-state game with Bucknell, a fairly close potential rival in Fordham, and a historical, non-football rival in Georgetown (though VU would probably dominate any football series with GU). If VU is interested in making the move, I think the PL would welcome them with open arms. The question is more on Villanova's end.

With Richmond and William & Mary, those in the southeastern portion of Virginia may disagree, but I see them as a package deal; either they both come or neither comes. The biggest issue from a Patriot League point of view is they are outside the current PL footprint, and relatively far^ from the closest league members (Georgetown in football; American, Navy, and Loyola in other sports). I'm unsure if the Patriot League would be interested in taking them in or not.

^Anyone who has driven Interstate 95 between Washington, DC and Fredericksburg on a Friday through Sunday will tell you DC and Richmond are further apart than they appear on a map.

[Ivytalk]

Glad to see that UD has made this move. Congrats to the Hens!

[ngineer]

I think Villanova moving to the Patriot League for football within the next 3-5 years is a reasonable possibility. Villanova fits academically with the PL and is within its geographic footprint. It would have nearby games with Lehigh and Lafayette, another relatively close in-state game with Bucknell, a fairly close potential rival in Fordham, and a historical, non-football rival in Georgetown (though VU would probably dominate any football series with GU). If VU is interested in making the move, I think the PL would welcome them with open arms. The question is more on Villanova's end.

With Richmond and William & Mary, those in the southeastern portion of Virginia may disagree, but I see them as a package deal; either they both come or neither comes. The biggest issue from a Patriot League point of view is they are outside the current PL footprint, and relatively far^ from the closest league members (Georgetown in football; American, Navy, and Loyola in other sports). I'm unsure if the Patriot League would be interested in taking them in or not.

^Anyone who has driven Interstate 95 between Washington, DC and Fredericksburg on a Friday through Sunday will tell you DC and Richmond are further apart than they appear on a map.

That is the only drawback. Nice trips, though, for those who have the time.

[WestCoastAggie]

You know where Richmond is located, right?

This is not the one in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, y'know.

Besides that...it's just wrong to have Richmond captured in something called "Yankee"

Swap Monmouth and Richmond...FUBeAR will sleep better.Stony Brook, really.

But, I seriously suspect there’s a good shot that Rhode Island and the AEast schools could form their own thing and then reach out to Fordham to finally bring back the Yankee football conference.

Albany (AEast)
Bryant (AEast)
Fordham (A-10)
Maine (AEast)
New Hampshire (AEast)
Rhode Island (A-10)
Stony Brook (AEast)

That would leave the CAA full members + Richmond/Villanova:

A&T
Campbell
Elon
Hampton
Monmouth
Richmond (A-10)
Towson
Villanova (A-10)
W&M

[WestCoastAggie]

I think Villanova moving to the Patriot League for football within the next 3-5 years is a reasonable possibility. Villanova fits academically with the PL and is within its geographic footprint. It would have nearby games with Lehigh and Lafayette, another relatively close in-state game with Bucknell, a fairly close potential rival in Fordham, and a historical, non-football rival in Georgetown (though VU would probably dominate any football series with GU). If VU is interested in making the move, I think the PL would welcome them with open arms. The question is more on Villanova's end.

With Richmond and William & Mary, those in the southeastern portion of Virginia may disagree, but I see them as a package deal; either they both come or neither comes. The biggest issue from a Patriot League point of view is they are outside the current PL footprint, and relatively far^ from the closest league members (Georgetown in football; American, Navy, and Loyola in other sports). I'm unsure if the Patriot League would be interested in taking them in or not.

^Anyone who has driven Interstate 95 between Washington, DC and Fredericksburg on a Friday through Sunday will tell you DC and Richmond are further apart than they appear on a map.

I can also see the CAA scooping up Fordham from the PL. Just an opinion.

[dbackjon]

You know where Richmond is located, right?

This is not the one in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, y'know.

Besides that...it's just wrong to have Richmond captured in something called "Yankee"

Swap Monmouth and Richmond...FUBeAR will sleep better.

They should be used to being captured by Yankees by now.

April 3rd, 1865 - the liberation of Richmond :)

[CHIP72]

I can also see the CAA scooping up Fordham from the PL. Just an opinion.

I agree that is a possibility, especially if the Patriot League has some second thoughts about its now nearly 10 year experiment with athletic scholarships. (I do know if the league does or not; others on AGS may have a better idea about this.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Go...gate]

For the Patriot League and its football membership, important decisions lie ahead.

[JacksFan40]

Maybe it was mentioned previously but what is Delaware's plan for the 2024 season? I know they'll be ineligible for the playoffs, so will they still play a normal FCS schedule in the CAA or will they go independent for a year like Kennesaw just did? Just curious because it seems different schools handle this differently. I remember Coastal Carolina played as an independent in 2016 before moving up to the Sun Belt, while Georgia Southern and App State played in the SoCon in 2013 before moving up to the Sun Belt the next year. James Madison on the other hand just moved straight up and played in the Sun Belt for both years of the transition.

[UAalum72]

Stony Brook, really.

But, I seriously suspect there’s a good shot that Rhode Island and the AEast schools could form their own thing and then reach out to Fordham to finally bring back the Yankee football conference.

Albany (AEast)
Bryant (AEast)
Fordham (A-10)
Maine (AEast)
New Hampshire (AEast)
Rhode Island (A-10)
Stony Brook (AEast)

That would leave the CAA full members + Richmond/Villanova:

A&T
Campbell
Elon
Hampton
Monmouth
Richmond (A-10)
Towson
Villanova (A-10)
W&M
Have you forgotten that Stony Brook is now a full member of the CAA? I don't see them rejoining an America East league.

When driving to Florida we often took I-97 from Baltimore to US-301 down to Bowling Green and hook back into I-95 just above Richmond. Not really faster but less annoying.

[WestCoastAggie]

Have you forgotten that Stony Brook is now a full member of the CAA? I don't see them rejoining an America East league.

When driving to Florida we often took I-97 from Baltimore to US-301 down to Bowling Green and hook back into I-95 just above Richmond. Not really faster but less annoying.

Well, shoot. I forgot. Something told me to double back and confirm about that. LOL. But umm... yeah... There are some interesting possibilities with the associate members.

[smilo]

Stony Brook and Monmouth are good programs. Sad they will be stuck in this mess. Monmouth would have been better all around staying in the MAAC.

Sign me up for A-10/AmEast world immediately. Fordham and even Duquesne are welcome too for a nice round robin if they are committed to competing at the same level.

[NDSU1980]

It’s amazing that ten years ago similar criticisms were made of the sun belch. And now…
I've noticed a pretty consistent pattern, the people who put CUSA down as not worth joining are usually the people that don't want to move up to FBS at all.

[Daytripper]

Plus, the bulk of your conference schedule is on weeknights. No one is travelling to Louisiana Tech on a Tuesday.

The conference plays on weeknights one month per year. It is great for eyeballs on the television or streaming. Admittedly, not great for travel. Can't tell you how many of my family and friends that know I am a Sam Houston nut have texted me on a weeknight this October to tell me they watched the Bearkats on TV for the first time. So, there is some benefit.

[caribbeanhen]

Maybe it was mentioned previously but what is Delaware's plan for the 2024 season? I know they'll be ineligible for the playoffs, so will they still play a normal FCS schedule in the CAA or will they go independent for a year like Kennesaw just did? Just curious because it seems different schools handle this differently. I remember Coastal Carolina played as an independent in 2016 before moving up to the Sun Belt, while Georgia Southern and App State played in the SoCon in 2013 before moving up to the Sun Belt the next year. James Madison on the other hand just moved straight up and played in the Sun Belt for both years of the transition.

Today's press release states:

"All UD varsity programs will remain in the Coastal Athletic Association (CAA) through the 2024-2025 season, with all sports except football maintaining eligibility to compete for conference championships and NCAA postseason play."

and

"In the 2024 season, football will have an FCS schedule that will be announced in the coming months."

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

When FCS schools are forced to have to play their games on weeknights just to try and pay the bills and make it work, then I would be concerned.

FBS offers exposure and national TV slots. Something no FCS schools, outside of the Ivy and the SWAC, have.

[NY Crusader 2010]

It really is time for a split between:

CAA (Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Monmouth, North Carolina A&T, Stony Brook, Towson, William & Mary) and

"New Yankee" (Albany, Bryant, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Richmond, Villanova)

That creates smaller, more regional conferences that can play a round robin format for their conference championship. If you're worried that it creates a schedule that's too soft you can do a "challenge" the second to last week of the regular season where the top seed in the CAA plays the top seed in "New Yankee" and so on down the line.

The "New Yankee" might as well be America East Football. The following could easily happen:

UNH, Maine, Albany, Bryant, Rhode Island, Fordham, Merrimack, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart

The four in bold are already all-sports members. Invite Merrimack, HC and SHU as all-sports members and bring on URI and Fordham as football affiliates. And boom, you have a decent 9-team football conference, seven of whom would be all-sports members. Would prevent the CAA from poaching Albany and Bryant for all sports and I'm pretty sure Merrimack would cancel on the MAAC if this were to take place. Holy Cross could possibly be convinced if TPTB in America East could leverage getting us into Men's Hockey East.

[Go...gate]

Wondering what all the foregoing scenarios might mean for the "Core Four" of the Patriot League.

[Dane96]

That would not prevent the CAA from poaching Albany. The only thing preventing that is if Albany feels the CAA is unstable or if the AE proactively goes after CAA schools, plus a Fordham and/or Holy Cross football add. Albany’s AD would bring us to the FBS if we had the money to make it successful. He’s a southern guy and has put all of his eggs in the football basket.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Meanwhile, things are not good at Temple when it comes to athletics; not to mention campus safety. With EJ Warner in the portal and football seemingly nearing life support, hoops drawing about less than 3k fans I wonder what the future holds. Not sure if Temple football is around long enough to play UD again. I could see Temple eventually going the Wayne State route if things don't get better...


Football in particular has gotten so bleak that fans have even called to cut the program (https://twitter.com/uconn6thborough/status/1715558965273141696?s=46) on social media. While it’s a dramatic reaction, a team who made five straight bowl games from 2015-19 and won a conference championship just seven years ago shouldn’t be in this position.

https://temple-news.com/the-outcome-is-the-outcome-temple-athletics-struggles-to-financially-adapt/

[ElCid]

With the exception of Liberty, every one of these moves has been from state-supported schools. There's a reason why Villanova, Richmond, Drake, or Georgetown aren't jumping at the same opportunity: there's no influx of state money to cover the shortfalls.

One wonders what would/will happen when those funds dry up or are prioritized elsewhere. Hmm. "Some" of these schools who have jumped have fairly small endowments. There isn't a lot of cushion. Raising tuition isn't a viable option as competition will only get more intense as the culture of mandatory college attendance fades.

[DFW HOYA]

Meanwhile, things are not good at Temple when it comes to athletics; not to mention campus safety. With EJ Warner in the portal and football seemingly nearing life support, hoops drawing about less than 3k fans I wonder what the future holds. Not sure if Temple football is around long enough to play UD again. I could see Temple eventually going the Wayne State route if things don't get better...

Without football Temple would become a Division I orphan. There are no guarantees it would be welcomed back in what is now a collection of smaller schools in the A-10. However poor football is, that's $6-7 million a year in rights fees which prop up spending across the department and would go away.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Without football Temple would become a Division I orphan. There are no guarantees it would be welcomed back in what is now a collection of smaller schools in the A-10. However poor football is, that's $6-7 million a year in rights fees which prop up spending across the department and would go away.

But how much is the program costing Temple in negative equity given how in many ways athletics serves as a window into the institution? By having a university program that is poorly run, a consistent loser and has virtually zero support there is an inherent price to pay for such negative optics. We're just under two decades removed from the "vote" and the MAC throwing Temple a life saving line.

While I obviously love athletics, I do not support general incompetency that allows an institutionally supported program to wallow in despair indefinitely. Especially a highly visible one that eats up as many resources like football. Temple has had enough problems lately (drastic drop in enrollment, campus safety, leadership failures, graduate student strike, community relations) that spending time, money, and general capital to fix football ranges anywhere from being tone deaf (which is what they admit to anyway, just in a modestly different context) to being held in theoretical contempt for prioritizing football in any capacity ahead of the before mentioned issues facing the institution.

Temple already has a public Boston U. George Washington and/or Northeastern, type feel given the composition of its student body. For lack of a better term, it's a quirky, dare I say, weird university. If NYU and Wayne State had a child it would be Temple....

The only urban public institution I've spent time at that truly has a similar feel to Temple is the University of Illinois-Chicago.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread but this is related to institutional positioning which is also relevant to UD's move.

[Go...gate]

But how much is the program costing Temple in negative equity given how in many ways athletics serves as a window into the institution? By having a university program that is poorly run, a consistent loser and has virtually zero support there is an inherent price to pay for such negative optics. We're just under two decades removed from the "vote" and the MAC throwing Temple a life saving line.

While I obviously love athletics, I do not support general incompetency that allows an institutionally supported program to wallow in despair indefinitely. Especially a highly visible one that eats up as many resources like football. Temple has had enough problems lately (drastic drop in enrollment, campus safety, leadership failures, graduate student strike, community relations) that spending time, money, and general capital to fix football ranges anywhere from being tone deaf (which is what they admit to anyway, just in a modestly different context) to being held in theoretical contempt for prioritizing football in any capacity ahead of the before mentioned issues facing the institution.

Temple already has a public Boston U. George Washington and/or Northeastern, type feel given the composition of its student body. For lack of a better term, it's a quirky, dare I say, weird university. If NYU and Wayne State had a child it would be Temple....

The only urban public institution I've spent time at that truly has a similar feel to Temple is the University of Illinois-Chicago.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread but this is related to institutional positioning which is also relevant to UD's move.

Good and thoughtful post.

I was unaware that Temple was facing these difficulties.

[CHIP72]

Without football Temple would become a Division I orphan. There are no guarantees it would be welcomed back in what is now a collection of smaller schools in the A-10. However poor football is, that's $6-7 million a year in rights fees which prop up spending across the department and would go away.

I personally would be surprised if the Atlantic 10 didn't welcome Temple back into the fold if the university decides to drop football and/or chooses to play as an independent in football and go to another conference in other sports, ala what Connecticut has done with the Big East.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I personally would be surprised if the Atlantic 10 didn't welcome Temple back into the fold if the university decides to drop football and/or chooses to play as an independent in football and go to another conference in other sports, ala what Connecticut has done with the Big East.

Agreed, I think they'd be welcome back.

[MR. CHICKEN]

U OF D PRESS CONFERENCE 10AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9OmpbjGTNA

[OhioHen]

"In the 2024 season, football will have an FCS schedule that will be announced in the coming months."
A dream schedule, tying together history and modern "names" (assuming UD is a non-conference game for CAA teams):
Lehigh (long-time rival before Lehigh went PL)
at William & Mary (long history and well, Williamsburg)
North Dakota State (current relevance)
at Rhode Island (long history)
Maine (long history)
Holy Cross (history, current relevance)
at Furman (previous playoffs, current relevance)
New Hampshire (long history)
at Richmond (history)
Eastern Kentucky (old I-AA championship opponent)
at Villanova (rivalry)

If next year is a 12-game season, throw in Delaware State (a bone to our neighbors) which eliminates one required buyout.

[MR. CHICKEN]

A dream schedule, tying together history and modern "names" (assuming UD is a non-conference game for CAA teams):
Lehigh (long-time rival before Lehigh went PL)
at William & Mary (long history and well, Williamsburg)
North Dakota State (current relevance)
at Rhode Island (long history)
Maine (long history)
Holy Cross (history, current relevance)
at Furman (previous playoffs, current relevance)
New Hampshire (long history)
at Richmond (history)
Eastern Kentucky (old I-AA championship opponent)
at Villanova (rivalry)

If next year is a 12-game season, throw in Delaware State (a bone to our neighbors) which eliminates one required buyout.


DELAWARE STATE IS ON HENS SKED 2024 THRU 2027.....THEN AGAIN 2029.....AWK

NORFOLK STATE IS ON 2024 SKED TOO!

[FUBeAR]

DELAWARE GAMES WILL NOT COUNT IN DUH CAA STANDIN'S.....PER NJ..BRAWK!

SO BEGS DUH ?.......WILL FANS FLOCK NEXT SEASON...FOR FINAL CAA CONTESTS........OR......B-CAUSE IT DOESN'T COUNT.......STAY HOME.......BRAWK?OR...

Will YouDee pull a KayEssYou and blow off Coastal Atheltic Association Football entirely in '24 ... and just play a garbage 9 game (min req'd by NCAA) schedule in the SadChickens season of estrangement?

[MR. CHICKEN]

ANY ?'s......YOUSE HAVE MAY....VERAH WELL......GET ANSWERED...IN PRESS CONFERENCE.......AWK!

[OhioHen]

DELAWARE STATE IS ON HENS SKED 2024 THRU 2027.....THEN AGAIN 2029.....AWK

NORFOLK STATE IS ON 2024 SKED TOO!
These games are why I referenced eliminating a buyout if DSU was added to my dream schedule (only NSU would have to be bought out in that scenario).

[Go Green]

NORFOLK STATE IS ON 2024 SKED TOO!

A shame that Norfolk is scheduled to play Delaware on Sept 28. If Army drops Dartmouth in favor of AAC opponents (as expected), Dartmouth could have filled that opening with Delaware next season.

Perhaps with some creativity, it could still happen!

[MR. CHICKEN]

......C-USA CHAMPIONSHIP GAME IS FRIDAY NIGHT CBSSN 7 PM AH BELIEVE........NEW MEXICO STATE vs LIBERTY..........SO LET'S GET STARTED HENS.......AN' TUNE IN......AWK!

[dbackjon]

The conference plays on weeknights one month per year. It is great for eyeballs on the television or streaming. Admittedly, not great for travel. Can't tell you how many of my family and friends that know I am a Sam Houston nut have texted me on a weeknight this October to tell me they watched the Bearkats on TV for the first time. So, there is some benefit.


And better than weeknights in November (MACtion).

[Sitting Bull]

A dream schedule, tying together history and modern "names" (assuming UD is a non-conference game for CAA teams):
Lehigh (long-time rival before Lehigh went PL)
at William & Mary (long history and well, Williamsburg)
North Dakota State (current relevance)
at Rhode Island (long history)
Maine (long history)
Holy Cross (history, current relevance)
at Furman (previous playoffs, current relevance)
New Hampshire (long history)
at Richmond (history)
Eastern Kentucky (old I-AA championship opponent)
at Villanova (rivalry)

If next year is a 12-game season, throw in Delaware State (a bone to our neighbors) which eliminates one required buyout.

I would love to see the Hens on our schedule next year but we already have 4 OOC plugged (VMI, Wofford, Coastal Carolina, Furman) - so that only leaves 8 CAA games to fill.

[Sitting Bull]

So unless UD is going to be playing a CAA schedule next year, games counting as league games, it looks like most similar to W&M already have 4 OOC booked. Pickings would be slim.

[topher99]

So unless UD is going to be playing a CAA schedule next year, games counting as league games, it looks like most similar to W&M already have 4 OOC booked. Pickings would be slim.

Looks like they will play a CAA schedule next year:

STATEMENT FROM CAA COMMISSIONER JOE D’ANTONIO ON THE UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE’S DECISION TO WITHDRAW FROM THE CAA AND CAA FOOTBALL CONFERENCE

The CAA and the CAA Football Conference received official notification from the University of Delaware that it will be withdrawing as a member of both Conferences on June 30, 2025.

Per conference bylaws the following rules will apply:

Delaware will continue to compete as a member of the CAA during the 2023-24 and 2024-25 seasons and be eligible to participate in all conference championships and NCAA championships.



Delaware student-athletes and coaches will still be able to receive weekly and postseason awards.



Delaware will compete in the CAA Football Conference during the 2024 season, but pursuant to NCAA bylaws will not be able to participate in the FCS playoffs as it transitions to the FBS level. Games involving Delaware will count in the CAA Football Conference standings.


We would like to thank the University of Delaware for its contributions to the CAA and CAA Football Conference, and wish its student-athletes, coaches and administrators all the best during the transition process.

The CAA and CAA Football Conference have recently undergone a significant membership expansion initiative with the addition of Campbell University, Hampton University, Monmouth University, North Carolina A&T State University, Stony Brook University and Bryant University (football only). Both Conferences remain very strong and committed to working together to advance nationally competitive college athletic programs coupled with outstanding academic programs. Going forward both entities continue to be focused on making decisions that ensure a sustainable and competitive model that will allow its members to thrive within the challenges of the ever-changing Division I landscape.

[Sir William]

I would love to see the Hens on our schedule next year but we already have 4 OOC plugged (VMI, Wofford, Coastal Carolina, Furman) - so that only leaves 8 CAA games to fill.

Well heck, that's almost half a SoCon schedule right there.

Would love to see the Tribe come back home to the Southern! Now that JMU and UD are gone (and eventually 'Nova, IMO), it just makes more sense going forward than playing Bryant, Stony Brook and Monmouth, etc.

(And bring the boys from Richmond with ya!)

[rhowdyram]

Without football Temple would become a Division I orphan. There are no guarantees it would be welcomed back in what is now a collection of smaller schools in the A-10. However poor football is, that's $6-7 million a year in rights fees which prop up spending across the department and would go away.

Personally I would welcome Temple back in a cocaine heartbeat. Even better if we could dump the dreck like Fordham, Duquesne, La Salle, and Loyola Chicago at the same time.

[TJT]

You know where Richmond is located, right?

This is not the one in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, y'know.

Besides that...it's just wrong to have Richmond captured in something called "Yankee"

Swap Monmouth and Richmond...FUBeAR will sleep better.



Regarding knowing things - Richmond was already once in the then named old Yankee Conference from 1986 to 1996.

Besides, if a new version of the old Yankee Conference were to be created, it would not necessarily have the old name.

[mainejeff]

Regarding knowing things - Richmond was already once in the then named old Yankee Conference from 1986 to 1996.

Besides, if a new version of the old Yankee Conference were to be created, it would not necessarily have the old name.

Right...it would be called America East.

[Ridge1982]

Anyone who has driven Interstate 95 between Washington, DC and Fredericksburg on a Friday through Sunday will tell you DC and Richmond are further apart than they appear on a map.
can confirm

[The Boogie Down]

Asking this mainly of CAA and Patriot League fans (both of whom would be somewhat better in the know than the rest of us):

With UD on the move...
What's the true likelihood that Patriot invites Villanova for FB and Wildcats accept?
And if above were to happen, would Patriot also likely invite W&M for all sports, and would they accept?
And if above, where would that leave Richmond FB? More likely to stay in CAA or also make move to Patriot?

Is any of this plausible? Personally, I don't think the dust has settled in the CAA with the departures of JMU and now UD.


I think the Patsies and New CAA will simultaneously attempt to poach from each other. Pieces like Villanova, W&M and Richmond are attractive to the Patsies. Pieces like Fordham and HC are attractive to the New CAA. Not sure who wins in that scenario but it makes sense to guess that those attractive pieces will end up in a better league than what we currently have now.

[The Boogie Down]

xdontknowx
IFIN' DELAWARE DIDN'T WANT DUH MEACS/CAMPBELL/BRYANT.......STANDS TA REASON.....'NOVA/WM & MARY/RICHMOND WOODN'T EITHER......SO WHO VOTED....FOR....DIS CONGLOMERATE.......xdontknowx......BRAWK?


I said it at the time and said it on this forum. The New CAA is junk. Good for Delaware. It was a move that had to be made. Now let's see where the non-junk parts of the New CAA go and let's see if there's any mixing w/Fordham and Holy Cross. And, if so, on whose terms does the potential mixing happen?

[Wolffan]

I think the Patsies and New CAA will simultaneously attempt to poach from each other. Pieces like Villanova, W&M and Richmond are attractive to the Patsies. Pieces like Fordham and HC are attractive to the New CAA. Not sure who wins in that scenario but it makes sense to guess that those attractive pieces will end up in a better league than what we currently have now.
I think it is much simpler. Villanova would request to join PL football. HC, Fordham and Georgetown have much in common with their fellow Catholic school. Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell routinely play football versus nearby Villanova as it is. Nova is a better fit with the Patriot League v the new CAA. And Nova's football presence makes the PL a better league.

I don't see Richmond and W&M leaving CAA football.

[WestCoastAggie]

I said it at the time and said it on this forum. The New CAA is junk. Good for Delaware. It was a move that had to be made. Now let's see where the non-junk parts of the New CAA go and let's see if there's any mixing w/Fordham and Holy Cross. And, if so, on whose terms does the potential mixing happen?

Just out of curiosity, who are the junk programs in the CAA?

[Tribe4SF]

Just out of curiosity, who are the junk programs in the CAA?

Yeah, I'll be interested to see that response. Maybe he can add who the junk programs in the Patriot are.

[smilo]

Just out of curiosity, who are the junk programs in the CAA?

For me, it is Hampton and now Bryant (but at least Bryant is within region). Maybe Hampton was good once upon a time, but it's not within my 15 year frame of memory.
NC A+T has had recent success and Campbell might have potential - but I don't really care to play either regularly. I barely cared to play Elon and that's only cuz they recruit so hard up north.

My land is from Portland, ME to Virginia Beach, VA - and I'd say Pittsburgh is 'pushing it's out west. I'm not really interested in having standing associations outside that range.

Rhode Island may be a long time terrible program, but even these new additions have them a respectable middle of the pack team.

[mainejeff]

If things don't work out with the Patriot.....America East invites Towson and Monmouth as all sport members, Villanova and URI join as associate football members....and Fordham leaves the Patriot to join as an associate football member.

AE Football:

Maine
UNH
URI
Bryant
Albany
Fordham
Monmouth
Villanova
Towson

[caribbeanhen]

C-HEN- EXPLAIN in as best detail as possible why you said what you said about wont be good to be in FCS 5 years from now?

Flo Sports will be taking over all of FCS

which reminds me, I need to cancel

[GRIZ1948]

The BSC and MVFC schools/teams have continued to get better as the East Coast conferences have not.

[caribbeanhen]

The BSC and MVFC schools/teams have continued to get better as the East Coast conferences have not.

Who from the Big Sky is going CUSA ?

[UNHWildcat18]

The BSC and MVFC schools/teams have continued to get better as the East Coast conferences have not.


wow 3rd post ever in two years, thanks for such an insightful message random Montana poster….

[The Boogie Down]

Just out of curiosity, who are the junk programs in the CAA?

Yeah, I'll be interested to see that response. Maybe he can add who the junk programs in the Patriot are.

Whaddaya guys kidding me? Smilo pretty much already answered it except he forgot one. Either way, I can't believe a William & Mary fan doesn't already know. Seriously?

Depending on your age I'm guessing you've seen UMass, Delaware, JMU, Richmond and Villanova all win chips coming out of your once illustrious league. Yet you don't see the new batch of junk that's been piling of late? Really? Hint, it’s none of those proud teams. I kinda spelled it out a year and half ago in that “CAA is Great” thread or whatever that silly thing was called. So did others. So did others here on this thread (even before Smilo) when talking up Delaware’s reasons for peace-ing out. But you still need to hear it again? Alrighty, sure.

See all those schools the Formerly Proud CAA poached from the Not So Big South? That’s the junk! In London town they call it "rubbish." In Mexico City they call it "los no buenos."

To spell it out, and in chronological order, the list is made up of Monmouth, NC A&T, Hampton, Campbell and now Bryant too. All el stinko grandes. Combined, they have a grand total of 2 FCS playoff wins. Combined, that puts them in a tie with historic cellar-dweller, Rhodey. Combined! It’s also less than many Patsies, including Fordham. Combined, they have 0 FBS scalps. Also less than many Patsies, including Fordham. All together, there’s not a single academic power house on that stinky list. Even when it comes to endowments they combine to be less than each and every single Patsy, including Fordham. It’s a sad little list. Not sure why the CAA went in that direction to begin with.

At least Delaware escaped. Good for them! Let’s hope the other good pieces can break free too xpeacex

[UNHWildcat18]

Just out of curiosity, who are the junk programs in the CAA?

it’s not junk per say, there are a few irritating factors. The Yankee conference was solid and was forced into a conference A-10 then CAA years ago. The stupid ****ing CAA made it so if you joined the CAA for all sports you can automatically plop your football program into the FB conference. Stupid rule, also this allowed the CAA to just worry about basketball and use football as a selling point and we’ve added so many team who honestly no one cares to be in a conference with.

it’s like telling Georgia their conference slate next year includes JMU, UTSA, and UAB. It’s not that Georgia wants to insults those schools, just doesn’t really see the logistics.. like honestly what business does Campbell have being in a conference with Villanova and UNH….

Also it’s not that a conference can’t change and add people but so many that just don’t fit the profile so quick and basically telling the original members of the conference tough ****.. is getting old.

[The Boogie Down]

it’s not junk per say, there are a few irritating factors. The Yankee conference was solid and was forced into a conference A-10 then CAA years ago. The stupid ****ing CAA made it so if you joined the CAA for all sports you can automatically plop your football program into the FB conference. Stupid rule, also this allowed the CAA to just worry about basketball and use football as a selling point and we’ve added so many team who honestly no one cares to be in a conference with.

it’s like telling Georgia their conference slate next year includes JMU, UTSA, and UAB. It’s not that Georgia wants to insults those schools, just doesn’t really see the logistics.. like honestly what business does Campbell have being in a conference with Villanova and UNH….

Also it’s not that a conference can’t change and add people but so many that just don’t fit the profile so quick and basically telling the original members of the conference tough ****.. is getting old.

Some of the pieces are junkier than others but at the end of the day all five would make it into the Fred G. Sanford collection.

As for going from Yankee, to A-10, to essentially an A-10/Not So Big South hybrid, I think you expaliend it very well. Long story short the CAA was more interested in adding 2 sport teams than protecting the quality of what was once the single greatest FCS conference of ‘em all.

There have been other problems too. Eastern football as a whole has dropped (especially the Patsies but even the NEC, which had been trending upwards, has fallen off considerably) over the past 10-15 years. Losing JMU (and UMass way before that) hasn't helped. To me tho, this is the tipping point.*

I’ve read, here and on the Fordham board, of my alma mater jumping to the CAA but no way would I want in on what’s left of these spare parts. No offense to the solid remaining pieces here but I’d rather see those schools in the PL. Or, like I’ve been saying for a while now, merging some of those good pieces into a new A-10 football conference.
---------------------------------
* - Tipping point for AGS too as we'd be losing lots of haha's from the many Chicken fans here.

[unknown-swac]

What's going to be funny is when The PAC 2 take a bunch of MWC teams and they look to backfill with MVFC teams. Gonna see how many are super anti FBS then in lieu of staying FCS.

[WestCoastAggie]

Whaddaya guys kidding me? Smilo pretty much already answered it except he forgot one. Either way, I can't believe a William & Mary fan doesn't already know. Seriously?

Depending on your age I'm guessing you've seen UMass, Delaware, JMU, Richmond and Villanova all win chips coming out of your once illustrious league. Yet you don't see the new batch of junk that's been piling of late? Really? Hint, it’s none of those proud teams. I kinda spelled it out a year and half ago in that “CAA is Great” thread or whatever that silly thing was called. So did others. So did others here on this thread (even before Smilo) when talking up Delaware’s reasons for peace-ing out. But you still need to hear it again? Alrighty, sure.

See all those schools the Formerly Proud CAA poached from the Not So Big South? That’s the junk! In London town they call it "rubbish." In Mexico City they call it "los no buenos."

To spell it out, and in chronological order, the list is made up of Monmouth, NC A&T, Hampton, Campbell and now Bryant too. All el stinko grandes. Combined, they have a grand total of 2 FCS playoff wins. Combined, that puts them in a tie with historic cellar-dweller, Rhodey. Combined! It’s also less than many Patsies, including Fordham. Combined, they have 0 FBS scalps. Also less than many Patsies, including Fordham. All together, there’s not a single academic power house on that stinky list. Even when it comes to endowments they combine to be less than each and every single Patsy, including Fordham. It’s a sad little list. Not sure why the CAA went in that direction to begin with.

At least Delaware escaped. Good for them! Let’s hope the other good pieces can break free too xpeacex

I wanted to see specific names. Because of the touchiness of having A&T and Hampton involved now, I am glad to see this spelled out by a detractor of the additions in a public space. Plus, you spelled out your reasonings for your opinion which don’t seem malicious in nature. It’s pretty cut and dry. The ones who have won Nattys in the CAA, sans ‘Nova and Richmond are gone.

We’re left with programs that gotta get their budgets up to snuff in order to fill the shoes of those that departed the conference.

From my understanding, the CAA additions were a defensive mechanism to keep them from going the way of the Big South. It was an aggressive proposition to poach teams from the AEast, Big South, MAAC, SoCon, and attempt to grab Howard from the MEAC.

All have shown promise to upgrade their athletic departments and my Alma mater’s enrollment is booming. Not to mention, we’re generating over $150 million in research revenue on the academic side in our quest for R1 status, a first for a 1890 Land Grant HBCU.

But this is very uncomfortable. It’s uncomfortable for people like you, who feel adding A&T, Hampton, and other Big South programs, believing we’re dragging down the value of the conference. Meanwhile, A&T and Hampton are getting flack from those in the HBCU community, with some even calling us sellouts.

But, I’m in the minority and have been behind the scenes pushing for us to leave the MEAC and pushing our BOT members to vote to approve the CAA membership. We just gotta finally get our $100 million Athletics Capital Campaign off the ground in 2024 (and its plans for the BOT to finally approve it this Feb). We got goals to renovate Truist Stadium, locker rooms, and build a new 8,000 seat convocation center by 2035, or sooner (hopefully). We also are in progress of adding an additional $4 million to our budget and hire more athletic department admins, albeit that’s a slow process, slower than some Alumni can stomach.

Hampton, believe it or not, and Campbell also have athletic upgrades in progress or complete in an effort to compete in the CAA.

If things go well, sooner than later, A&T can help continue the legacy of excellent success in the playoffs. We may need it if we hope to keep this large group of “misfit toys” together.

And BTW: thanks for not saying something along the lines of “There goes the neighborhood,” as a UD beat writer did, angering the entire HBCU sector.

[Gangtackle11]

The movement up by JMU & Delaware will certainly have Villanova once again deciding if the current construct of the CAA is the best fit for a football program that has its detractors from a good portion of its alum.

The closer proximity of the Patriot League schools, some are like Catholic institutions of learning, and the academic emphasis placed on student-athletes all line up for Villanova football. A CAA with Delaware, JMU, UNH, Richmond, W&M, Maine, Rhody was steeped with tradition & at most times the highest level of competition.

Due to the changing college sports landscape the names of our competition has changed dramatically the past decade or so. Nothing against Campbell, Monmouth, NC A&T, Hampton, Elon, SB, or Albany, but when its compared to Holy Cross, Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Fordham, & Georgetown most Villanova fans will tell you those names are probably where our football program fits best now with the departures of Delaware & JMU.

The Patriot League plays by a few different rules (Academic Index/Redshirts) that may have Nova take a pass, but with the movement of teams now it may not be the stumbling block any longer.

As others move up……Nova may align their football based more on the academic profile & proximity of their conference mates. Time will tell.

xpeacex

[Tribe4SF]

Whaddaya guys kidding me? Smilo pretty much already answered it except he forgot one. Either way, I can't believe a William & Mary fan doesn't already know. Seriously?

Depending on your age I'm guessing you've seen UMass, Delaware, JMU, Richmond and Villanova all win chips coming out of your once illustrious league. Yet you don't see the new batch of junk that's been piling of late? Really? Hint, it’s none of those proud teams. I kinda spelled it out a year and half ago in that “CAA is Great” thread or whatever that silly thing was called. So did others. So did others here on this thread (even before Smilo) when talking up Delaware’s reasons for peace-ing out. But you still need to hear it again? Alrighty, sure.

See all those schools the Formerly Proud CAA poached from the Not So Big South? That’s the junk! In London town they call it "rubbish." In Mexico City they call it "los no buenos."

To spell it out, and in chronological order, the list is made up of Monmouth, NC A&T, Hampton, Campbell and now Bryant too. All el stinko grandes. Combined, they have a grand total of 2 FCS playoff wins. Combined, that puts them in a tie with historic cellar-dweller, Rhodey. Combined! It’s also less than many Patsies, including Fordham. Combined, they have 0 FBS scalps. Also less than many Patsies, including Fordham. All together, there’s not a single academic power house on that stinky list. Even when it comes to endowments they combine to be less than each and every single Patsy, including Fordham. It’s a sad little list. Not sure why the CAA went in that direction to begin with.

At least Delaware escaped. Good for them! Let’s hope the other good pieces can break free too xpeacex

Your homework is lacking. Check NC A&T history over the past 10 years. Included in that stretch are 3 consecutive years with FBS wins and a 12-0 undefeated season. Their recent issues will get turned around and they will be competitive again having hired the right coach for 2023.

You also haven't addressed if there's any junk in the Patriot. You have a non-scholarship team that plays in a middle school stadium who managed to finish dead in the middle of your conference this year and managed a win over your team.

Denigrating other schools football programs and telling me that my team should flee from them is a pitiful effort. All of the new CAA football members are investing in their programs and categorizing them as "junk" is despicable.

Delaware is moving on and I will miss having them in our league. A move like this takes time and planning and they clearly decided some time ago that it was right for them. How much changes in the CAA had to do with their decision is unknown but I doubt it was a primary factor.

[OhioHen]

I wanted to see specific names.
For me, the "junk" CAA football league wasn't about specific teams. It was about the loss of continuity and disregard of traditional football matchups (not all qualify as rivalries).

UD playing W&M/Richmond/UNH/Maine once every two or three years, rather than every year (or at least three out of four) to add games against teams that would have been sometimes-not-so-welcome additions to the non-conference schedule is "junk." Not all of the teams added would have been unwelcome additions to OOC. For example, in recent years, NCA&TSU would have been a great add to the schedule (better football and MUCH better band show than many of the other schools UD played).

[Milktruck74]

I get it. I'm an FCS guy and I love my SoCon rivalries...but...If my Mocs had an AD in place back when the SunBelt came calling back in 2014, there would have only been a single season in the last 10 years that the Mocs would not have been bowl eligible. I love the FCS playoff system, but there have been several 6 and 7 win seasons that seemed like a failure since the Mocs didn't get in...It does make me wonder. Also, there is the revenue for FBS schools...hell, you get $300k just for having your kids pass classes (APR kicker)....FCS schools have to schedule a beat down from a P5 school to get that payout ($500k minus expenses)...then you also get a shot at $1MM payout for P5 games instead of half that...and you get a payday from a crappy bowl that is going to be near or above 7 figures...Add to that a shot at getting in a higher tier MBB conference that has more than one bid to March Madness and add on that payout potential...I'm not advocating for my Mocs to move up, but I do understand the economics of doing so. And as for the $5MM to bump up...I'd bet there are a few folks in the ADs rolodex that have already said that money if they want to make the jump. I know it is only a phone call away in Chattanooga.

[NY Crusader 2010]

What's going to be funny is when The PAC 2 take a bunch of MWC teams and they look to backfill with MVFC teams. Gonna see how many are super anti FBS then in lieu of staying FCS.

I wonder how that goes down though. Given the sheer lack of numbers (2 schools!!), wouldn't WSU and OSU basically have to invite almost the entire Mountain West to fill out a conference? So, instead of there being a PAC 12 and a MWC, you would essentially have MWC re-branded as Pac 12 but with WSU and OSU being the 2 lead dogs at the table.

[Sitting Bull]

To my eye - the knocking of new CAA members by PL fans is shaded more in just ignorance than anything else. Especially from a Fordham fan whose school is still playing in gym right out of Hoosiers. Their football stadium has been surpassed by UAlbany and soon even Bryant.

The overall facilities and investments at PL schools are just dormant other than an indoor facility at HC. They operate like the Ivys. No need for updates. The CAA - even with newer members - reinforce and expect facility upgrades upon their members. Only Villanova seems content with no upgrades on their football stadium - maybe they are better suited in a PL world.

Campbell’s arena looks like a palace compared to most in the PL. Same with Elon. W&M is pumping $25m into Kaplan. URI is upgrading their football stadium. Bryant announced stadium upgrades just after they signed on. Monmouth has nice facilities but a bit small

I like all the PL schools but face it, they are spending nothing in upgrades or facilities of any magnitude. Their strategy is to tread water. At least the CAA members are committed to ongoing improvements. It’s also why Fairfield and High Point are high on the add list. Check out the plans and conditions of their facilities.

[mainejeff]

I think any Patriot fan knocking CAA Football members is pretty rich.

I know that almost everyone on here disses Maine for one reason or another but they are investing $20-$30 million into their football facilities....new offices, locker rooms, weight room, film room not to mention Alfond Stadium itself which will have the track removed, new bleachers on the "visiting" side, a new scoreboard and an end zone enclosed by new club level seating as part of the new basketball arena.



Some of the pieces are junkier than others but at the end of the day all five would make it into the Fred G. Sanford collection.

As for going from Yankee, to A-10, to essentially an A-10/Not So Big South hybrid, I think you expaliend it very well. Long story short the CAA was more interested in adding 2 sport teams than protecting the quality of what was once the single greatest FCS conference of ‘em all.

There have been other problems too. Eastern football as a whole has dropped (especially the Patsies but even the NEC, which had been trending upwards, has fallen off considerably) over the past 10-15 years. Losing JMU (and UMass way before that) hasn't helped. To me tho, this is the tipping point.*

I’ve read, here and on the Fordham board, of my alma mater jumping to the CAA but no way would I want in on what’s left of these spare parts. No offense to the solid remaining pieces here but I’d rather see those schools in the PL. Or, like I’ve been saying for a while now, merging some of those good pieces into a new A-10 football conference.
---------------------------------
* - Tipping point for AGS too as we'd be losing lots of haha's from the many Chicken fans here.

How would you feel about this?

AE Football:

Maine
UNH
URI
Bryant
Albany
Fordham
Monmouth
Villanova
Towson

[dbackjon]

Who from the Big Sky is going CUSA ?

If Montana/Montana State/Idaho/UC Davis etc wanted to go FBS, CUSA would have taken them in a heartbeat.

[Dane96]

To my eye - the knocking of new CAA members by PL fans is shaded more in just ignorance than anything else. Especially from a Fordham fan whose school is still playing in gym right out of Hoosiers. Their football stadium has been surpassed by UAlbany and soon even Bryant.

The overall facilities and investments at PL schools are just dormant other than an indoor facility at HC. They operate like the Ivys. No need for updates. The CAA - even with newer members - reinforce and expect facility upgrades upon their members. Only Villanova seems content with no upgrades on their football stadium - maybe they are better suited in a PL world.

Campbell’s arena looks like a palace compared to most in the PL. Same with Elon. W&M is pumping $25m into Kaplan. URI is upgrading their football stadium. Bryant announced stadium upgrades just after they signed on. Monmouth has nice facilities but a bit small

I like all the PL schools but face it, they are spending nothing in upgrades or facilities of any magnitude. Their strategy is to tread water. At least the CAA members are committed to ongoing improvements. It’s also why Fairfield and High Point are high on the add list. Check out the plans and conditions of their facilities.

Well stated. And while I don't know if Albany indeed will get or accept a full invite by the CAA, things like new facilities have been VERY much preached by the CAA leadership for entry. It is one of the reasons we pushed the arena renovation, which was just completed...and are pushing forward on the total rebuild of the PE building (Phase 1 is almost complete with the new practice facility for basketball and the updated volleyball pavilion, will build an indoor facility, and will likely move a host of baseball games to Bruno Field (the minor league park). Albany had our soft opening for the arena last night, official opener on Saturday. Financially, Holy Cross is the only school to make any sort of significant investments in its sports department, while BU actually move their basketball team back into Case.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAIMvFYXUAE6zFn?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[DSUrocks07]

I wonder how that goes down though. Given the sheer lack of numbers (2 schools!!), wouldn't WSU and OSU basically have to invite almost the entire Mountain West to fill out a conference? So, instead of there being a PAC 12 and a MWC, you would essentially have MWC re-branded as Pac 12 but with WSU and OSU being the 2 lead dogs at the table.I think that what is likely going to end up happening is a full merger into the "Pacific-Mountain West Conference" with a later split into an east - west division (or more extreme, a full conference separation with new names). Which would then open the door for Big Sky and MVFC teams to look to move up if they were interested.

Eventually the end goal is for 16-team conference alliances to be established as a form of tier system at the FBS level

Big Ten-SEC
ACC-Big 12
Pac-Mountain
SunBelt-CUSA
AAC-MAC

And if the WAC-ASun hodgepodge pulls off their plan then they would be the lowest tier.

And FCS would remain for the schools that don't want to commit financially to their football programs (in comparison to FBS school) and the conference tiers would shake out based on on-the-field success and who the real penny pinchers are.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

I think that what is likely going to end up happening is a full merger into the "Pacific-Mountain West Conference" with a later split into an east - west division (or more extreme, a full conference separation with new names). Which would then open the door for Big Sky and MVFC teams to look to move up if they were interested.

Eventually the end goal is for 16-team conference alliances to be established as a form of tier system at the FBS level

Big Ten-SEC
ACC-Big 12
Pac-Mountain
SunBelt-CUSA
AAC-MAC

And if the WAC-ASun hodgepodge pulls off their plan then they would be the lowest tier.

And FCS would remain for the schools that don't want to commit financially to their football programs (in comparison to FBS school) and the conference tiers would shake out based on on-the-field success and who the real penny pinchers are.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

The real Penny pinchers are the ones that end up with all the money 💰

[DSUrocks07]

And all of this talk about schools jumping up to chase FBS money and how it's a fool's errand, I wonder if this same conversation is being had at the D2 level when it comes to basketball programs. [emoji848]

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[NY Crusader 2010]

Albany to the CAA in all sports has been a long time coming. It's almost weird how long it's taken for that move to take place. IMO that would be a heist for the league. Between football and basketball, Albany could definitely come at least close to being what the Hens were overall --without the worry that they'll look to move up to FBS. Not to mention, solid lacrosse! And maybe, just maybe, an excuse to hold the CAA tournament in the Empire State in the near future.

Another thing -- out of all the schools remaining in the CAA, both for all sports or as football affiliates, the league is getting past the point of having to worry about schools leaving to go FBS in football. The only schools that would even think about that in the next 10 years IMO are Towson and maybe Villanova. The latter highly unlikely unless Temple drops football.

[UNHWildcat18]

Albany to the CAA in all sports has been a long time coming. It's almost weird how long it's taken for that move to take place. IMO that would be a heist for the league. Between football and basketball, Albany could definitely come at least close to being what the Hens were overall --without the worry that they'll look to move up to FBS. Not to mention, solid lacrosse! And maybe, just maybe, an excuse to hold the CAA tournament in the Empire State in the near future.

Another thing -- out of all the schools remaining in the CAA, both for all sports or as football affiliates, the league is getting past the point of having to worry about schools leaving to go FBS in football. The only schools that would even think about that in the next 10 years IMO are Towson and maybe Villanova. The latter highly unlikely unless Temple drops football.

You know they declined multiple times right? I don't see how "hey Albany we just lost Delaware, going to lose CofC and might lose another school soon. Please spend more money to come join our conference" no benefit to joining for all sports and they are already in the football league. I don't see a great argument. They had to beg SBU to join, and honestly if you read their board SBU fans aren't happy.

[WestCoastAggie]

You know they declined multiple times right? I don't see how "hey Albany we just lost Delaware, going to lose CofC and might lose another school soon. Please spend more money to come join our conference" no benefit to joining for all sports and they are already in the football league. I don't see a great argument. They had to beg SBU to join, and honestly if you read their board SBU fans aren't happy.

Hmm... Right now, I think the Football affiliate is a higher priority until CoC announces their move to the A-10.

[mainejeff]

You know they declined multiple times right? I don't see how "hey Albany we just lost Delaware, going to lose CofC and might lose another school soon. Please spend more money to come join our conference" no benefit to joining for all sports and they are already in the football league. I don't see a great argument. They had to beg SBU to join, and honestly if you read their board SBU fans aren't happy.

Albany moving all of their sports to the CAA wouldn't surprise me though. The CAA has been a magnet for anyone remotely interested in progressing their athletic program.....it has name cache and maybe most importantly, access to a new student recruitment base in the mid-South. That being said.....not every school that has joined has enjoyed or seen success that they had hoped for but that may be more of an individual school problem than the league that they joined. Lack of investment in facilities, stagnant coaching salaries and in some cases a de-emphasis on athletics seems to be an issue with some current CAA athletic programs.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Hmm... Right now, I think the Football affiliate is a higher priority until CoC announces their move to the A-10.

Why does the CAA need football affiliates? Even with Delaware leaving, its down to I think 14 teams. I can't even keep count.

CofC to the A-10 may happen but that league is already super bloated. Don't think they need Charleston now. Unlike we see in the power football conferences, there's no major incentive for the Big East to undergo a big round of expansion. Therefore, I don't see the A-10 getting raided heavily anytime soon. Unless you count UMass possibly bringing all sports to CUSA, which they honestly should just solider up and do at this point.

[Dane96]

Why does the CAA need football affiliates? Even with Delaware leaving, its down to I think 14 teams. I can't even keep count.

CofC to the A-10 may happen but that league is already super bloated. Don't think they need Charleston now. Unlike we see in the power football conferences, there's no major incentive for the Big East to undergo a big round of expansion. Therefore, I don't see the A-10 getting raided heavily anytime soon. Unless you count UMass possibly bringing all sports to CUSA, which they honestly should just solider up and do at this point.

15, with Bryant coming on. I tend to agree that football isn't going to be the first factor. If Charleston does leave, I presume they will fill two spots irrespective of football right now. That said, they can also stand pat and do nothing, stay at 14...see what pans out. This is the more likely scenario though I have been told from many, many sources that I trust that Hofstra is a flight risk and the Northern schools want both Albany and Fairfield or Albany and Quinnipiac, while the Southern schools want High Point...and the Northern schools absolutely do not want High Point. All hearsay, of course. I do think the Northern contingent has a bit more sway as the departure of 2-3 Northern schools would reek havoc on the league.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to be clear...I am not sold on an Albany move this time. I have been told from at least 3 Northern school sources (highly placed) that if they had access to an auto-bid they would start the breakaway process.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

To my eye - the knocking of new CAA members by PL fans is shaded more in just ignorance than anything else. Especially from a Fordham fan whose school is still playing in gym right out of Hoosiers. Their football stadium has been surpassed by UAlbany and soon even Bryant.

The overall facilities and investments at PL schools are just dormant other than an indoor facility at HC. They operate like the Ivys. No need for updates. The CAA - even with newer members - reinforce and expect facility upgrades upon their members. Only Villanova seems content with no upgrades on their football stadium - maybe they are better suited in a PL world.

Campbell’s arena looks like a palace compared to most in the PL. Same with Elon. W&M is pumping $25m into Kaplan. URI is upgrading their football stadium. Bryant announced stadium upgrades just after they signed on. Monmouth has nice facilities but a bit small

I like all the PL schools but face it, they are spending nothing in upgrades or facilities of any magnitude. Their strategy is to tread water. At least the CAA members are committed to ongoing improvements. It’s also why Fairfield and High Point are high on the add list. Check out the plans and conditions of their facilities.

Lehigh has invested heavily in the facilities the last 10-15 years! The only thing that needs to be addressed is the locker room at Goodman. Literally stuck in the late 1980s. Otherwise, their infrastructure is G5 good. Lehigh was one of the first non-major state U's to have a designated athletic complex anywhere. There's a new indoor practice facility coming and ancillary renovations to the field house. Now the programs need to elevate their success....

https://lehighsports.com/images/2019/10/4/LehighUnivertsity_MapsAndDirections_GoodmanCampus_ 0.jpg?width=1000&height=563&mode=crop


https://lehighsports.com/images/2018/3/5/Stabler_wideshot.jpg

[gophoenix]

High Point? omg.

[The Boogie Down]

I wanted to see specific names. Because of the touchiness of having A&T and Hampton involved now, I am glad to see this spelled out by a detractor of the additions in a public space. Plus, you spelled out your reasonings for your opinion which don’t seem malicious in nature. It’s pretty cut and dry. The ones who have won Nattys in the CAA, sans ‘Nova and Richmond are gone.

We’re left with programs that gotta get their budgets up to snuff in order to fill the shoes of those that departed the conference.

From my understanding, the CAA additions were a defensive mechanism to keep them from going the way of the Big South. It was an aggressive proposition to poach teams from the AEast, Big South, MAAC, SoCon, and attempt to grab Howard from the MEAC.

All have shown promise to upgrade their athletic departments and my Alma mater’s enrollment is booming. Not to mention, we’re generating over $150 million in research revenue on the academic side in our quest for R1 status, a first for a 1890 Land Grant HBCU.

But this is very uncomfortable. It’s uncomfortable for people like you, who feel adding A&T, Hampton, and other Big South programs, believing we’re dragging down the value of the conference. Meanwhile, A&T and Hampton are getting flack from those in the HBCU community, with some even calling us sellouts.

But, I’m in the minority and have been behind the scenes pushing for us to leave the MEAC and pushing our BOT members to vote to approve the CAA membership. We just gotta finally get our $100 million Athletics Capital Campaign off the ground in 2024 (and its plans for the BOT to finally approve it this Feb). We got goals to renovate Truist Stadium, locker rooms, and build a new 8,000 seat convocation center by 2035, or sooner (hopefully). We also are in progress of adding an additional $4 million to our budget and hire more athletic department admins, albeit that’s a slow process, slower than some Alumni can stomach.

Hampton, believe it or not, and Campbell also have athletic upgrades in progress or complete in an effort to compete in the CAA.

If things go well, sooner than later, A&T can help continue the legacy of excellent success in the playoffs. We may need it if we hope to keep this large group of “misfit toys” together.

And BTW: thanks for not saying something along the lines of “There goes the neighborhood,” as a UD beat writer did, angering the entire HBCU sector.


First off, my apologies if you thought that I thought NC A&T and Hampton stunk b/c they’re HBCU’s. In actuality I thought they stunk because they stink. Just so there’s no confusion, you can throw in the three predominantly white schools too.

To be less of a dick tho, I do see why the CAA expanded, I just don’t think it was the right move. As I’ve said on other threads, to me, as a Fordham guy, the CAA (in all of its previous names & forms) was always where we wanted to be. Beating other Patsies was fine, but beating a CAA team? That’s when we knew we were legit. So yeah, I wasn’t cool with watering down a powerful football product in order to keep the league filled with (a bunch of not so good) all-sport teams.

Maybe years from now I’ll be shocked by how well each of the 5 new editions succeeded? Right now tho, I doubt it. Even with the NC A&T upgrades, at the end of the day, and contrary to what some W&M posters may think, we’re all upgrading. Fordham recently got an 8 figure gift from a fairly famous football alumnus for our football facilities. Okay, but big deal. It’s still just about keeping up w/the Joneses. To go back to W&M, apparently they have a gym that isn’t straight out of Hoosiers. Apparently their gym is 3 x bigger than the one at Fordham. From what I hear, they've even had upgrades. Whoaaa! But wait, how many banners does that gym have again? Oh yeah, bupkis. Zero. Nada. Zilch. So that’s what I think about facilities and upgrades. Yeah, it’s nice, but winning is the only thing that counts and I haven't seen much of that from these five new additions.

I will admit tho that part of that was b/c I wasn’t looking correctly. I had no idea NC A&T had pulled off three straight FBS scalps between 2016-2018. My bad for not knowing that. Sincere thanks to the other W&M guy for the correction!

Oh and at the risk of sounding just like that white dude who, after insulting black people, tries explaining how he really does have a black friend, I also wanna add that I did hope the PL would bring in Howard for all sports. This was back when it appeared as if they were also joining the CAA. My reaction was they didn’t belong in the CAA because they sucked even worse than the other (at the time) four newbies. But I also added they'd be a great fit w/the PL because of their academic reputation. Plus it would expand the league's footprint into DC where even the Ivies don’t have a member. On top of that, they coulda helped build a buzz with Georgetown. And maybe even push the Hoyas into doing more with their football product.

So yeah, Howard in the PL woulda been a pretty big "get" for us. At the same time I can see why they stayed in the MEAC and held on to their tradition. For what it’s worth I can also imagine how things might feel uncomfortable when caught between fans who think NC A&T is watering down the CAA and HBCU fans who think leaving for the CAA is selling out to begin with. All I can say to that is winning (like beating 3 FBS schools in a row!) makes for the best comeback.

[gophoenix]

I could see a lot of scenarios playing out. What's left in the CAA doesn't seem cohesive enough to stick together.

1) Charleston very well goes A-10
2) W&M, Elon, Campbell, UNCW are sort of a package that have been
3) Monmouth, Towson is sort of an oddball in the middle
4) A&T wants to go FBS
5) Maine, URI, UNH, Stony Brook
6) Richmond and Villanova are odd programs out in the scheme of the membership
7) Bryant seems like the Elon of that area 20 years ago
8) Drexel, Northeastern, Hofstra fit even less now. You have to wonder would Northeastern and Hofstra even be here if they didn't have football at the beginning

Towson, Elon, W&M, A&T, Campbell, UNCW, Richmond for football maybe Monmouth to SoCon would kind of split the baby and shore up the SoCon to be what the CAA was trying to be. I once thought that Elon burned the bridge, but given that Elon has been on schedules in all sports, many of the ADs and Presidents are gone, the SoCon Commish has changed. A lot of fan impressions may no longer be the case behind the scenes in a business sense.

I see the east coast and the dire condition of the A-Sun, Big South, OVC, MEAC and see the Patriot (love or hate it), SoCon and NEC with relative stability, you then have to question what makes sense given this new world of conference silliness. Something has to give and it might as well be the CAA that let's go.

[WestCoastAggie]

15, with Bryant coming on. I tend to agree that football isn't going to be the first factor. If Charleston does leave, I presume they will fill two spots irrespective of football right now. That said, they can also stand pat and do nothing, stay at 14...see what pans out. This is the more likely scenario though I have been told from many, many sources that I trust that Hofstra is a flight risk and the Northern schools want both Albany and Fairfield or Albany and Quinnipiac, while the Southern schools want High Point...and the Northern schools absolutely do not want High Point. All hearsay, of course. I do think the Northern contingent has a bit more sway as the departure of 2-3 Northern schools would reek havoc on the league.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to be clear...I am not sold on an Albany move this time. I have been told from at least 3 Northern school sources (highly placed) that if they had access to an auto-bid they would start the breakaway process.

Is Hofstra a candidate for the A-10 along with CoC?

[Southsider]

Lehigh has invested heavily in the facilities the last 10-15 years! The only thing that needs to be addressed is the locker room at Goodman. Literally stuck in the late 1980s. Otherwise, their infrastructure is G5 good. Lehigh was one of the first non-major state U's to have a designated athletic complex anywhere. There's a new indoor practice facility coming and ancillary renovations to the field house. Now the programs need to elevate their success....

https://lehighsports.com/images/2019/10/4/LehighUnivertsity_MapsAndDirections_GoodmanCampus_ 0.jpg?width=1000&height=563&mode=crop


https://lehighsports.com/images/2018/3/5/Stabler_wideshot.jpg

Spot on Owl! And Fisher Stadium at Lafayette is also a fabulous facility. FCS FB needs to stop being about wannabe FBS and get back to regional competition so fans can enjoy more good FB closer to home. After all, at the end of the day nobody outside your school’s fan base gives a s**t

[Catbooster]

Lehigh has invested heavily in the facilities the last 10-15 years! The only thing that needs to be addressed is the locker room at Goodman. Literally stuck in the late 1980s. Otherwise, their infrastructure is G5 good. Lehigh was one of the first non-major state U's to have a designated athletic complex anywhere. There's a new indoor practice facility coming and ancillary renovations to the field house. Now the programs need to elevate their success....

https://lehighsports.com/images/2019/10/4/LehighUnivertsity_MapsAndDirections_GoodmanCampus_ 0.jpg?width=1000&height=563&mode=crop


https://lehighsports.com/images/2018/3/5/Stabler_wideshot.jpg
What kind of a fieldhouse is that? I don't see how you'd fit a rodeo in there.

:D

[Gangtackle11]

Albany to the CAA in all sports has been a long time coming. It's almost weird how long it's taken for that move to take place. IMO that would be a heist for the league. Between football and basketball, Albany could definitely come at least close to being what the Hens were overall --without the worry that they'll look to move up to FBS. Not to mention, solid lacrosse! And maybe, just maybe, an excuse to hold the CAA tournament in the Empire State in the near future.

Another thing -- out of all the schools remaining in the CAA, both for all sports or as football affiliates, the league is getting past the point of having to worry about schools leaving to go FBS in football. The only schools that would even think about that in the next 10 years IMO are Towson and maybe Villanova. The latter highly unlikely unless Temple drops football.

Nova is going nowhere near FBS football. That ship sailed when the Big East Football teams took off in 2011-12. Nova was serious then, but when they had time to study FBS football at the G5 level it was a hard pass back then. They were coming off a Natty FCS title just 2 years prior too.

Villanova’s appetite for football lies in the souls of about 1000 -2000 fans or so. Many are well-heeled ex-players who have kept the pressure on with significant donations. The powers that be at Villanova probably would shut it down if they could & definitely will look at less expensive options when the situation arises. This may be one of those situations now.

I would love Villanova to compete with the best. Hopefully, louder & stronger voices than mine will keep Villanova in that position. Interesting times for sure.

xpeacex

[NY Crusader 2010]

Is Hofstra a candidate for the A-10 along with CoC?

How many schools do people think the A-10 is expanding to? 30?