Delaware to CUSA

[NY Crusader 2010]

I could see a lot of scenarios playing out. What's left in the CAA doesn't seem cohesive enough to stick together.

1) Charleston very well goes A-10
2) W&M, Elon, Campbell, UNCW are sort of a package that have been
3) Monmouth, Towson is sort of an oddball in the middle
4) A&T wants to go FBS
5) Maine, URI, UNH, Stony Brook
6) Richmond and Villanova are odd programs out in the scheme of the membership
7) Bryant seems like the Elon of that area 20 years ago
8) Drexel, Northeastern, Hofstra fit even less now. You have to wonder would Northeastern and Hofstra even be here if they didn't have football at the beginning

Towson, Elon, W&M, A&T, Campbell, UNCW, Richmond for football maybe Monmouth to SoCon would kind of split the baby and shore up the SoCon to be what the CAA was trying to be. I once thought that Elon burned the bridge, but given that Elon has been on schedules in all sports, many of the ADs and Presidents are gone, the SoCon Commish has changed. A lot of fan impressions may no longer be the case behind the scenes in a business sense.

I see the east coast and the dire condition of the A-Sun, Big South, OVC, MEAC and see the Patriot (love or hate it), SoCon and NEC with relative stability, you then have to question what makes sense given this new world of conference silliness. Something has to give and it might as well be the CAA that let's go.

Both dopped football in 2009. 2/3 of their tenure in the CAA has been post-football at this point. One would assume that all parties are happy where they're at. I've said for a while now that the CAA could use a school somewhere in between NYC and Boston. Albany and Fairfield would fit that bill.

[NY Crusader 2010]

15, with Bryant coming on. I tend to agree that football isn't going to be the first factor. If Charleston does leave, I presume they will fill two spots irrespective of football right now. That said, they can also stand pat and do nothing, stay at 14...see what pans out. This is the more likely scenario though I have been told from many, many sources that I trust that Hofstra is a flight risk and the Northern schools want both Albany and Fairfield or Albany and Quinnipiac, while the Southern schools want High Point...and the Northern schools absolutely do not want High Point. All hearsay, of course. I do think the Northern contingent has a bit more sway as the departure of 2-3 Northern schools would reek havoc on the league.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to be clear...I am not sold on an Albany move this time. I have been told from at least 3 Northern school sources (highly placed) that if they had access to an auto-bid they would start the breakaway process.

If that's the case, why not get the ball rolling on America East Football now?

[UAalum72]

I could see a lot of scenarios playing out. What's left in the CAA doesn't seem cohesive enough to stick together.

1) Charleston very well goes A-10
2) W&M, Elon, Campbell, UNCW are sort of a package that have been
3) Monmouth, Towson is sort of an oddball in the middle
4) A&T wants to go FBS
5) Maine, URI, UNH, Stony Brook
6) Richmond and Villanova are odd programs out in the scheme of the membership
7) Bryant seems like the Elon of that area 20 years ago
8) Drexel, Northeastern, Hofstra fit even less now. You have to wonder would Northeastern and Hofstra even be here if they didn't have football at the beginning

Missed one.

[gophoenix]

Missed one.

It was less all-inclusive and more a demonstration of the disjointed nature of what is left.

[Dane96]

Is Hofstra a candidate for the A-10 along with CoC?

From what I am hearing, the are quietly discussing the MAAC.

[Dane96]

If that's the case, why not get the ball rolling on America East Football now?

My understanding is the AE is actually being proactive. It would not shock me to see Albany in the CAA due to the AE not helping on the football front. It also would not shock me to see 3 up to 5 of the following teams joining the AE: SBU (if it doesn't go FBS) Hofstra, Drexel, Towson, Monmouth, and NU...with AE football featuring Albany, Maine, UNH, Rhode Island, Bryant, Towson, Monmouth, SBU, and Villanova...with Fordham plucked for football.

Things are going to get really, really weird as the facts of college finance (overall) and the P5 breakaway start coming to reality.

BTW, that football league would be very good.

[iBOsbu]

My understanding is the AE is actually being proactive. It would not shock me to see Albany in the CAA due to the AE not helping on the football front. It also would not shock me to see 3 up to 5 of the following teams joining the AE: SBU (if it doesn't go FBS) Hofstra, Drexel, Towson, Monmouth, and NU...with AE football featuring Albany, Maine, UNH, Rhode Island, Bryant, Towson, Monmouth, SBU, and Villanova...with Fordham plucked for football.

Things are going to get really, really weird as the facts of college finance (overall) and the P5 breakaway start coming to reality.

BTW, that football league would be very good.

Are you talking about the same 0-10 SBU? :D

I hope Albany replaces Delaware and that’s it. If Charleston leaves then add Fairfield or Quinny. I would prefer northern CAA breakup and add Albany and Fairfield/Quinny, but I guess it’s not realistic due to autobid.

[mainejeff]

My understanding is the AE is actually being proactive. It would not shock me to see Albany in the CAA due to the AE not helping on the football front. It also would not shock me to see 3 up to 5 of the following teams joining the AE: SBU (if it doesn't go FBS) Hofstra, Drexel, Towson, Monmouth, and NU...with AE football featuring Albany, Maine, UNH, Rhode Island, Bryant, Towson, Monmouth, SBU, and Villanova...with Fordham plucked for football.

Things are going to get really, really weird as the facts of college finance (overall) and the P5 breakaway start coming to reality.

BTW, that football league would be very good.

This would solve a lot of issues for multiple schools. The Southern flank of the CAA would survive one way or another.

[ncspiderfan]

Missed one.


Hampton?

[BigGreenTruck]

To be fair, Temple did have to earn it to some degree. They were in the Big East for football only from 1991 until about 2004, when they were kicked out and effectively replaced by UConn. There was talk about dropping to the I-AA A-10 in football or dropping the program altogether. Ultimately, Temple joined the MAC and slowly built the program back up. Not sure if they won a title, but they became a contender in the MAC after a few years. Then, right before the whole Big East split was happening, they were invited back as an all-sports member. However, the split was finalized before they would play even one Big East game in basketball or football. They ended up on the AAC side of the split, as the Big East proper became comprised only of the true basketball schools. It's my understanding that the AAC is happier with Temple than Temple is happy with the AAC. Pretty sure they'd love to be in there for football only and go back to the A-10 in basketball.

When Temple joined the MAC from 2007-11 they never beat a MAC team with a winning record. When Al Golden left to take the Miami job he was still 10 games under .500. Temple wasn't the burning dumpster they were in the BE but they were far from good.

[JSUSoutherner]

Looks like they will play a CAA schedule next year:

STATEMENT FROM CAA COMMISSIONER JOE D’ANTONIO ON THE UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE’S DECISION TO WITHDRAW FROM THE CAA AND CAA FOOTBALL CONFERENCE

The CAA and the CAA Football Conference received official notification from the University of Delaware that it will be withdrawing as a member of both Conferences on June 30, 2025.

Per conference bylaws the following rules will apply:

Delaware will continue to compete as a member of the CAA during the 2023-24 and 2024-25 seasons and be eligible to participate in all conference championships and NCAA championships.



Delaware student-athletes and coaches will still be able to receive weekly and postseason awards.



Delaware will compete in the CAA Football Conference during the 2024 season, but pursuant to NCAA bylaws will not be able to participate in the FCS playoffs as it transitions to the FBS level. Games involving Delaware will count in the CAA Football Conference standings.


We would like to thank the University of Delaware for its contributions to the CAA and CAA Football Conference, and wish its student-athletes, coaches and administrators all the best during the transition process.

The CAA and CAA Football Conference have recently undergone a significant membership expansion initiative with the addition of Campbell University, Hampton University, Monmouth University, North Carolina A&T State University, Stony Brook University and Bryant University (football only). Both Conferences remain very strong and committed to working together to advance nationally competitive college athletic programs coupled with outstanding academic programs. Going forward both entities continue to be focused on making decisions that ensure a sustainable and competitive model that will allow its members to thrive within the challenges of the ever-changing Division I landscape.
We were told we were eligible for the ASUN championship last year.

Until we absolutely steamrolled #10 SFA.

Then suddenly the conference decided we weren't eligible for the championship.

Don't be surprised if the CAA changes it's mind.

[Go...gate]

THIS Patriot fan is not knocking CAA facilities. Be careful of painting all of us with too broad a brush.

[Go...gate]

Lehigh has invested heavily in the facilities the last 10-15 years! The only thing that needs to be addressed is the locker room at Goodman. Literally stuck in the late 1980s. Otherwise, their infrastructure is G5 good. Lehigh was one of the first non-major state U's to have a designated athletic complex anywhere. There's a new indoor practice facility coming and ancillary renovations to the field house. Now the programs need to elevate their success....


https://lehighsports.com/images/2019/10/4/LehighUnivertsity_MapsAndDirections_GoodmanCampus_ 0.jpg?width=1000&height=563&mode=crop


https://lehighsports.com/images/2018/3/5/Stabler_wideshot.jpg

Agreed. PL schools are spending more than many realize.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Agreed. PL schools are spending more than many realize.

Colgate recently built a new hockey arena! Do people know the costs associated with m/w hockey?!?! I don't think so. They also did an extensive renovation to Seven Oaks! One of the best collegiate courses in the country! As a former member, it's fantasic!

To suggest the PL program's facilities don't stack up is a bit crazy imo. I can see from the basketball side a bit but...isn't Colgate getting a new place? Outside of Stabler, Alumni at Navy, Sojka, Christl, and maybe the Hart Center most of the places are pretty meh....

[Go...gate]

First off, my apologies if you thought that I thought NC A&T and Hampton stunk b/c they’re HBCU’s. In actuality I thought they stunk because they stink. Just so there’s no confusion, you can throw in the three predominantly white schools too.

To be less of a dick tho, I do see why the CAA expanded, I just don’t think it was the right move. As I’ve said on other threads, to me, as a Fordham guy, the CAA (in all of its previous names & forms) was always where we wanted to be. Beating other Patsies was fine, but beating a CAA team? That’s when we knew we were legit. So yeah, I wasn’t cool with watering down a powerful football product in order to keep the league filled with (a bunch of not so good) all-sport teams.

Maybe years from now I’ll be shocked by how well each of the 5 new editions succeeded? Right now tho, I doubt it. Even with the NC A&T upgrades, at the end of the day, and contrary to what some W&M posters may think, we’re all upgrading. Fordham recently got an 8 figure gift from a fairly famous football alumnus for our football facilities. Okay, but big deal. It’s still just about keeping up w/the Joneses. To go back to W&M, apparently they have a gym that isn’t straight out of Hoosiers. Apparently their gym is 3 x bigger than the one at Fordham. From what I hear, they've even had upgrades. Whoaaa! But wait, how many banners does that gym have again? Oh yeah, bupkis. Zero. Nada. Zilch. So that’s what I think about facilities and upgrades. Yeah, it’s nice, but winning is the only thing that counts and I haven't seen much of that from these five new additions.

I will admit tho that part of that was b/c I wasn’t looking correctly. I had no idea NC A&T had pulled off three straight FBS scalps between 2016-2018. My bad for not knowing that. Sincere thanks to the other W&M guy for the correction!

Oh and at the risk of sounding just like that white dude who, after insulting black people, tries explaining how he really does have a black friend, I also wanna add that I did hope the PL would bring in Howard for all sports. This was back when it appeared as if they were also joining the CAA. My reaction was they didn’t belong in the CAA because they sucked even worse than the other (at the time) four newbies. But I also added they'd be a great fit w/the PL because of their academic reputation. Plus it would expand the league's footprint into DC where even the Ivies don’t have a member. On top of that, they coulda helped build a buzz with Georgetown. And maybe even push the Hoyas into doing more with their football product.

So yeah, Howard in the PL woulda been a pretty big "get" for us. At the same time I can see why they stayed in the MEAC and held on to their tradition. For what it’s worth I can also imagine how things might feel uncomfortable when caught between fans who think NC A&T is watering down the CAA and HBCU fans who think leaving for the CAA is selling out to begin with. All I can say to that is winning (like beating 3 FBS schools in a row!) makes for the best comeback.

You are not alone.

[Go...gate]

Colgate recently built a new hockey arena! Do people know the costs associated with m/w hockey?!?! I don't think so. They also did an extensive renovation to Seven Oaks! One of the best collegiate courses in the country! As a former member, it's fantasic!

Just approved a major renovation to Cotterell Court, too.

[Tribe4SF]

What kind of a fieldhouse is that? I don't see how you'd fit a rodeo in there.

:D

It's Patriot League rodeo!

https://i.imgur.com/Z4lUk3t.jpg

[CHIP72]

Spot on Owl! And Fisher Stadium at Lafayette is also a fabulous facility. FCS FB needs to stop being about wannabe FBS and get back to regional competition so fans can enjoy more good FB closer to home. After all, at the end of the day nobody outside your school’s fan base gives a s**t

Hey, getting away from that is what killed major (DI-A/FBS) Eastern college football, to everyone's detriment IMO.

[gophoenix]

This would solve a lot of issues for multiple schools. The Southern flank of the CAA would survive one way or another.

America East: Albany, Maine, UNH, Bryant Stony Brook, URI, (Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra)
Toss-Up: Towson, Monmouth, Villanova
CAA South: Elon, Campbell, A&T, Hampton, W&M, Richmond (UNCW, Charleston?)

In my opinion, if the bulk breaks off then the CAA south doesn't survive. The problem for Monmouth and Stony Brook will be the fees that they just paid to get in, then fee to get out, and fee to get in somewhere else. This is why I think that the only way anything happens is if the whole conference disbands which is probably unlikely.

You end up with a core that looks something like this hot mess:
CAA Core: W&M, Towson, Elon, Campbell, Towson, Monmouth, A&T, Hampton, Stony Brook (UNCW, Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, Charleston?)

I look at that and don't see a cohesive unit of schools with a consistent target of athletics, academics, funding, or ambition. The SoCon had a big identity crisis when App, GSU, Charleston, Davidson and Elon left. Despite all odds, they powered through it and look at the conference now, it is stable where many thought it wouldn't be and consistent. I'm honestly impressed.

The CAA on the other hand has lost VCU, ODU, GMU, GSU, JMU, Delaware in a matter of 12 years. Hofstra/Drexel/Northeastern didn't live up to hype. As much as it pains me to say Elon, Campbell, Charleston, A&T and Monmouth were pretty poor replacements for that group 1 to 1. Although each have potential in their own way. Bryant and Hampton are unimpressive replacements altogether.

Fairfield and High Point. No thank you.

Either CAA makes it through making smarter decisions, or we need to see some conference consolidation on the East Coast.

[mainejeff]

America East: Albany, Maine, UNH, Bryant Stony Brook, URI, (Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra)
Toss-Up: Towson, Monmouth, Villanova
CAA South: Elon, Campbell, A&T, Hampton, W&M, Richmond (UNCW, Charleston?)

In my opinion, if the bulk breaks off then the CAA south doesn't survive. The problem for Monmouth and Stony Brook will be the fees that they just paid to get in, then fee to get out, and fee to get in somewhere else. This is why I think that the only way anything happens is if the whole conference disbands which is probably unlikely.

You end up with a core that looks something like this hot mess:
CAA Core: W&M, Towson, Elon, Campbell, Towson, Monmouth, A&T, Hampton, Stony Brook (UNCW, Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, Charleston?)

I look at that and don't see a cohesive unit of schools with a consistent target of athletics, academics, funding, or ambition. The SoCon had a big identity crisis when App, GSU, Charleston, Davidson and Elon left. Despite all odds, they powered through it and look at the conference now, it is stable where many thought it wouldn't be and consistent. I'm honestly impressed.

The CAA on the other hand has lost VCU, ODU, GMU, GSU, JMU, Delaware in a matter of 12 years. Hofstra/Drexel/Northeastern didn't live up to hype. As much as it pains me to say Elon, Campbell, Charleston, A&T and Monmouth were pretty poor replacements for that group 1 to 1. Although each have potential in their own way. Bryant and Hampton are unimpressive replacements altogether.

Fairfield and High Point. No thank you.

Either CAA makes it through making smarter decisions, or we need to see some conference consolidation on the East Coast.

Bryant has made a lot of strides since they moved up to D1.....they have been investing and have some pretty impressive plans on the drawing board. Considering they are a smallish private in Rhode Island....I'd say they are pulling their weight and look like they have a heck of a lot more potential than many D1 schools in their geographic footprint.

Scroll through to page 28 for athletics upgrades....

https://vision2030.bryant.edu/sites/vision2030/files/content/Bryant%20University_Campus%20Master%20Plan%20Repor t_Final_102423_sm2.pdf


Also....good points about Stony Brook and Monmouth having to spend more money if they leave.....neither probably has an appetite to do that for a lateral move (AE). And Stony Brook probably has their sights set on FBS eventually as weird as that seems considering their struggles in the CAA. I don't think that their location is conducive to sponsoring FBS football but maybe in a couple of decades it will be.

If AE hangs on to Albany.....maybe the only tings that happen are Fairfield joins the CAA and Quinnipiac possibly joins AE....and we are done. Or the **** could hit the fan and it becomes a huge game of musical chairs.

[rhowdyram]

Is Hofstra a candidate for the A-10 along with CoC?

I've heard of CoC being a candidate, not Hofstra. Neither one should be a candidate.

[DFW HOYA]

Oh and at the risk of sounding just like that white dude who, after insulting black people, tries explaining how he really does have a black friend, I also wanna add that I did hope the PL would bring in Howard for all sports. This was back when it appeared as if they were also joining the CAA. My reaction was they didn’t belong in the CAA because they sucked even worse than the other (at the time) four newbies. But I also added they'd be a great fit w/the PL because of their academic reputation. Plus it would expand the league's footprint into DC where even the Ivies don’t have a member. On top of that, they coulda helped build a buzz with Georgetown. And maybe even push the Hoyas into doing more with their football product.


Outside of offering free tuition and getting interest from better non-conference opponents, Georgetown has done as much as it can (including beating Fordham this year) within the often needless academic and athletic barriers the PL puts up for its members...and that's the issue. CAA schools don't see the PL as a viable pivot and won't consider it.

[WestCoastAggie]

Colgate recently built a new hockey arena! Do people know the costs associated with m/w hockey?!?! I don't think so. They also did an extensive renovation to Seven Oaks! One of the best collegiate courses in the country! As a former member, it's fantasic!

To suggest the PL program's facilities don't stack up is a bit crazy imo. I can see from the basketball side a bit but...isn't Colgate getting a new place? Outside of Stabler, Alumni at Navy, Sojka, Christl, and maybe the Hart Center most of the places are pretty meh....

The PL also have just about as many sports offered as Ivy League schools. the sports number has to be kept in mind.

[smilo]

I've heard of CoC being a candidate, not Hofstra. Neither one should be a candidate.

I have to think, much like CAA Football (and all sports?), the A-10 is stronger as two or three separate conference than whatever it is now. Zero identity other than some but inconsistent basketball history.

The midwestern privates should just team up with other impressive midwestern private schools. Whoever considers themselves the south should align with the CAA legacy members. And the northeast has no shortage of good mid-major programs.

[rhowdyram]

The A10 would be fine as is if we got rid of Fordham, Duquesne, La Salle, and probably Loyola Chicago. It's a little bit more expansive than you'd like, but really it's the teams that never make the tournament and don't invest in basketball that are hurting us. Beat one of those first three teams and your metrics go in the tank. Lose to one of those teams and your season is done. And I've never been half as optimistic as many about Loyola Chicago's long term prospects. They were a complete non-factor from the late 60's until a brief spell under Porter Moser. I'm not optimistic they can keep things going without Moser.

[GannonFan]

Lehigh has invested heavily in the facilities the last 10-15 years! The only thing that needs to be addressed is the locker room at Goodman. Literally stuck in the late 1980s. Otherwise, their infrastructure is G5 good. Lehigh was one of the first non-major state U's to have a designated athletic complex anywhere. There's a new indoor practice facility coming and ancillary renovations to the field house. Now the programs need to elevate their success....

https://lehighsports.com/images/2019/10/4/LehighUnivertsity_MapsAndDirections_GoodmanCampus_ 0.jpg?width=1000&height=563&mode=crop


https://lehighsports.com/images/2018/3/5/Stabler_wideshot.jpg

When was the last time you were in those facilities? Goodman is pretty, but it's also seeing its age - chairbacks aren't terribly comfortable, and the bleacher seating needs to be redone. That and the concessions around the stadium aren't anything to write home about. And that's not even getting into the field and it's distance from the stands, even without a track. And I have to bring up Stabler - that place is kind of a dump. There's nothing special about attending a basketball game there. That place could surely use a redo.

[smilo]

The A10 would be fine as is if we got rid of Fordham, Duquesne, La Salle, and probably Loyola Chicago. It's a little bit more expansive than you'd like, but really it's the teams that never make the tournament and don't invest in basketball that are hurting us. Beat one of those first three teams and your metrics go in the tank. Lose to one of those teams and your season is done. And I've never been half as optimistic as many about Loyola Chicago's long term prospects. They were a complete non-factor from the late 60's until a brief spell under Porter Moser. I'm not optimistic they can keep things going without Moser.

Agree on Loyola, but Duquesne is suddenly competitive these days and looks respectable. I thought they were getting their act together GW seems to be a bigger problem of late. Staring down three failed coaching eras in a row.
UMass is in the gutter too. Maybe Martin can fix it. I think the conference geography doesn't help, but maybe the state of football is a worse problem.

[Southsider]

When was the last time you were in those facilities? Goodman is pretty, but it's also seeing its age - chairbacks aren't terribly comfortable, and the bleacher seating needs to be redone. That and the concessions around the stadium aren't anything to write home about. And that's not even getting into the field and its haidistance from the stands, even without a track. And I have to bring up Stabler - that place is kind of a dump. There's nothing special about attending a basketball game there. That place could surely use a redo.

Chairbacks are uncomfortable? Did you ever have the chance to sit for a game in Taylor Stadium? Goodman is just fine as is. And, I’d prefer LU invest in upgrading the team, not Goodman. However, I agree with you on Stabler.

[GannonFan]

Chairbacks are uncomfortable? Did you ever have the chance to sit for a game in Taylor Stadium? Goodman is just fine as is. And, I’d prefer LU invest in upgrading the team, not Goodman. However, I agree with you on Stabler.

I never had a chairback for a game, just for the awards ceremony after one of the high school district cross country races they hold there. They do that in the stadium. And yes, given a choice, I'd pick the football team to improve over the stadium - I'm a low frill guy anyway so the stadium is at least pretty. Stabler just seems old, and those seats closest to the floor must be the pushback ones because everything down there is wobbly.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

When was the last time you were in those facilities? Goodman is pretty, but it's also seeing its age - chairbacks aren't terribly comfortable, and the bleacher seating needs to be redone. That and the concessions around the stadium aren't anything to write home about. And that's not even getting into the field and it's distance from the stands, even without a track. And I have to bring up Stabler - that place is kind of a dump. There's nothing special about attending a basketball game there. That place could surely use a redo.

If Stabler is a dump than so is UD's Arena. What is wrong either with either facility given the purpose they service? As it is, both facilities are perfectly fine. Hell, they're nearly identical!

Goodman once again is a great facility! The new press box, renovated suites is something no other PL stadium offers. The distance from the field is not that big of the deal relative other stadiums (Wallace-Wade comes to mind) that are built in a similar bowl. The only issue infrastructure wise is the locker rooms....

UD's Arena Bob Carpenter Center...

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/1c8368_90c2f535ae1f400cab60dea59814e698~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1887,h_1415,al_c,q_90/1c8368_90c2f535ae1f400cab60dea59814e698~mv2.webp

[mainejeff]

Those look like roomy seats.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Biggest issue with Goodman is how far the grandstand is from the playing field, especially given there is no track there. Everything else about the experience is solid. Love the concessions, the grassy areas behind the end zones, the ease of getting to the stadium off the highway. Easy to tailgate.

I don't mind Stabler either. The problem with Stabler is that no one shows up to fill it, unless you guys are either playing Lafayette or hosting the Patriot League Championship Game. IIRC, the HC-Lehigh game in 2016 was the highest attended Patriot League tournament game ever.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The A10 would be fine as is if we got rid of Fordham, Duquesne, La Salle, and probably Loyola Chicago. It's a little bit more expansive than you'd like, but really it's the teams that never make the tournament and don't invest in basketball that are hurting us. Beat one of those first three teams and your metrics go in the tank. Lose to one of those teams and your season is done. And I've never been half as optimistic as many about Loyola Chicago's long term prospects. They were a complete non-factor from the late 60's until a brief spell under Porter Moser. I'm not optimistic they can keep things going without Moser.

Agree on Loyola but hope I'm wrong. All the DI programs located in or right outside of Chicago have been historically not good in Men's Basketball -- look at DePaul and Northwestern over the years. Crazy when you consider how much talent comes out of that city. La Salle would be the other school that the A-10 definitely doesn't need, but that school will probably close down before they get booted from the conference. Duquesne I actually like in the conference and, as frustrating as Fordham has been as a program the last 25 years, having a footprint in NYC I think means something. The entire Lombardi Center complex needs to be completely torn down and rebuilt. Don't know if that's ever feasible, especially since renovations just got finished at Rose Hill. Basically a facelift. Pretty front entrance but the actual gym is exactly the same.

[ngineer]

Biggest issue with Goodman is how far the grandstand is from the playing field, especially given there is no track there. Everything else about the experience is solid. Love the concessions, the grassy areas behind the end zones, the ease of getting to the stadium off the highway. Easy to tailgate.

I don't mind Stabler either. The problem with Stabler is that no one shows up to fill it, unless you guys are either playing Lafayette or hosting the Patriot League Championship Game. IIRC, the HC-Lehigh game in 2016 was the highest attended Patriot League tournament game ever.

I will agree that after having lived in Taylor stadium, the difference is significant, but Taylor was so close it wouldn't be allowed today. Holy Cross's stadium reminds me of Taylor with closeness to the sideline, though not as severe. However, though there is no track at Goodman, the additional width, which is probably only about 20-30 feet more than many others, allows for a soccer, for which Goodman has hosted Olympic tryouts and other soccer games. Years ago, a professional soccer team used the stadium as well. However, the best thing about Goodman is the playing surface. GRASS. Moreover, it drains well is well manicured. I, also, have never seen a PL football stadium have as much diverse food offerings as Goodman. And, from a comfort standpoint, the rest rooms are large and heated. With the South Endzone grass horseshoe, the stadium can accommodate 20,000. While some age issues, as with any structure 40 years old, some aesthetic touch ups are in line.

[The Boogie Down]

FIFY:


Outside of offering athletic scholarships, the way every single Division I school outside of the Ivies and PFL does, and thus gaining an ability to schedule FBS teams, Georgetown has done as much as it can (including beating Fordham this year) within the often needless academic and athletic barriers the PL puts up for its members...and that's the issue. CAA schools don't see the PL as a viable pivot and won't consider it.

Your last sentence may very well be true but I was speaking about Howard joining us, not New CAA schools.

[The Boogie Down]

Agree on Loyola but hope I'm wrong. All the DI programs located in or right outside of Chicago have been historically not good in Men's Basketball -- look at DePaul and Northwestern over the years. Crazy when you consider how much talent comes out of that city. La Salle would be the other school that the A-10 definitely doesn't need, but that school will probably close down before they get booted from the conference. Duquesne I actually like in the conference and, as frustrating as Fordham has been as a program the last 25 years, having a footprint in NYC I think means something. The entire Lombardi Center complex needs to be completely torn down and rebuilt. Don't know if that's ever feasible, especially since renovations just got finished at Rose Hill. Basically a facelift. Pretty front entrance but the actual gym is exactly the same.

DePaul was historically very good in men's basketball up until the mid '90s or so. Two Final Fours, an NIT chip, and tons of appearances into both tournaments since the early days of men's hoops. Unfortunately for them, the Blue Demons were best known for early upset exits. Even so they were a consistent regular season power for 50-60 years before things went south.

Historic Rose Hill Gymnasium is only exactly the same if you forget that every single seat in the building is new, the floor is new, the video boards are new and even the lockers have been redone. It is small venue and lacks an ability to add capacity but it has its charm.

[Milktruck74]

America East: Albany, Maine, UNH, Bryant Stony Brook, URI, (Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra)
Toss-Up: Towson, Monmouth, Villanova
CAA South: Elon, Campbell, A&T, Hampton, W&M, Richmond (UNCW, Charleston?)

In my opinion, if the bulk breaks off then the CAA south doesn't survive. The problem for Monmouth and Stony Brook will be the fees that they just paid to get in, then fee to get out, and fee to get in somewhere else. This is why I think that the only way anything happens is if the whole conference disbands which is probably unlikely.

You end up with a core that looks something like this hot mess:
CAA Core: W&M, Towson, Elon, Campbell, Towson, Monmouth, A&T, Hampton, Stony Brook (UNCW, Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, Charleston?)

I look at that and don't see a cohesive unit of schools with a consistent target of athletics, academics, funding, or ambition. The SoCon had a big identity crisis when App, GSU, Charleston, Davidson and Elon left. Despite all odds, they powered through it and look at the conference now, it is stable where many thought it wouldn't be and consistent. I'm honestly impressed.

The CAA on the other hand has lost VCU, ODU, GMU, GSU, JMU, Delaware in a matter of 12 years. Hofstra/Drexel/Northeastern didn't live up to hype. As much as it pains me to say Elon, Campbell, Charleston, A&T and Monmouth were pretty poor replacements for that group 1 to 1. Although each have potential in their own way. Bryant and Hampton are unimpressive replacements altogether.

Fairfield and High Point. No thank you.

Either CAA makes it through making smarter decisions, or we need to see some conference consolidation on the East Coast.

I see a crazy scenario where the Southern arm of the CAA and the toss ups add a few of the SoCon teams that don't feel like they fit into the current SoCon Model. Or a second one where a few of those Southern Arm teams break off and Join the SoCon to build the league up to 12 teams. Maybe!!!

[caribbeanhen]

I see a crazy scenario where the Southern arm of the CAA and the toss ups add a few of the SoCon teams that don't feel like they fit into the current SoCon Model. Or a second one where a few of those Southern Arm teams break off and Join the SoCon to build the league up to 12 teams. Maybe!!!

and they knew Delaware was going FBS and that’s why they did the CAA estate planning by adding so many teams

[Sitting Bull]

and they knew Delaware was going FBS and that’s why they did the CAA estate planning by adding so many teams

I think the estate planning had more to do with increasing the all sports core members and helping the deeper southern members with future stability and expenses. Mission accomplished.

Like JMU, most knew Delaware was a potential risk depending on their football aspirations.

The only real flight risks I see at this point are football affiliates, primarily New England members. The CAA can easily live without them / though would prefer not / and I’m not sure any of them would turn down an all sports invite.

Beyond that - others are openly willing to join with an invite. Fairfield, High Point among them.

On the So Con, I think they blew it when the CAA added Campbell and NC A&T. The CAA has more members now in a rapidly growing market like North Carolina than the So Con does.

[rhowdyram]

Rhode Island would absolutely turn down a CAA all sports invite, and that's even with the A10 being the worst it's ever been.

[WestCoastAggie]

I think the estate planning had more to do with increasing the all sports core members and helping the deeper southern members with future stability and expenses. Mission accomplished.

Like JMU, most knew Delaware was a potential risk depending on their football aspirations.

The only real flight risks I see at this point are football affiliates, primarily New England members. The CAA can easily live without them / though would prefer not / and I’m not sure any of them would turn down an all sports invite.

Beyond that - others are openly willing to join with an invite. Fairfield, High Point among them.

On the So Con, I think they blew it when the CAA added Campbell and NC A&T. The CAA has more members now in a rapidly growing market like North Carolina than the So Con does.

I don't think the SoCon wanted to have a 10-12 team conference aside from the benefit of adding Richmond and W&M.

[KPSUL]

I think the estate planning had more to do with increasing the all sports core members and helping the deeper southern members with future stability and expenses. Mission accomplished.

Like JMU, most knew Delaware was a potential risk depending on their football aspirations.

The only real flight risks I see at this point are football affiliates, primarily New England members. The CAA can easily live without them / though would prefer not / and I’m not sure any of them would turn down an all sports invite.

Beyond that - others are openly willing to join with an invite. Fairfield, High Point among them.

On the So Con, I think they blew it when the CAA added Campbell and NC A&T. The CAA has more members now in a rapidly growing market like North Carolina than the So Con does.

I'm fairly certain UNH is not, and would not be, interested in all sports CAA membership. Just guestimating, but I don't think Maine would be interested either for most of the same reasons as UNH.

[caribbeanhen]

Is UMass joining CUSA?

[Sitting Bull]

Rhode Island would absolutely turn down a CAA all sports invite, and that's even with the A10 being the worst it's ever been.

I would understand that. At the same time, the CAA would absolutely be fine if you wanted to play football elsewhere.

[rhowdyram]

I would understand that. At the same time, the CAA would absolutely be fine if you wanted to play football elsewhere.

I concur. Frankly I was always surprised the CAA didn't make us follow through with the move to NEC when we announced that back in like 2012.

I still think the best way forward with Delaware leaving is for two football conferences with some kind of out of conference scheduling agreement between the CAA schools and the others.

[Libertine]

Is UMass joining CUSA?

If that was going to happen, it probably already would have and, frankly, that's for the best. From a football perspective, even with all the FCS call-ups in CUSA, bringing in UMass would still be subtraction by addition. For their part, UMass has apparently decided that they're a basketball school -- which is reasonable -- and the A10 is typically a top 10-15 conference in terms of NET rating while the CUSA is sitting at #17 right now. Unless UMass decides to put some kind of emphasis on football or provide the program with any sense of direction at all, they and CUSA are better off apart.

[caribbeanhen]

If that was going to happen, it probably already would have and, frankly, that's for the best. From a football perspective, even with all the FCS call-ups in CUSA, bringing in UMass would still be subtraction by addition. For their part, UMass has apparently decided that they're a basketball school -- which is reasonable -- and the A10 is typically a top 10-15 conference in terms of NET rating while the CUSA is sitting at #17 right now. Unless UMass decides to put some kind of emphasis on football or provide the program with any sense of direction at all, they and CUSA are better off apart.

You make a ton of sense but just know a few Delaware and Massachusetts fans that want to rekindle an old East Coast rivalry and are trying to keep the dream alive

[The Yo Show]

Did everyone see the NCAA president's recommendation allowing for a new subdivision of the FBS to pay their players directly?

The P5/P4 and G5 split happening as predicted... makes Delaware's move seem even dumber IMO. Inevitable recombining of G5 / some FCS into a new FBS tier inbound.

[The Yo Show]

https://x.com/SamHerderFCS/status/1732051220318093349?s=20

[Libertine]

You make a ton of sense but just know a few Delaware and Massachusetts fans that want to rekindle an old East Coast rivalry and are trying to keep the dream alive

I don't know what the scheduling model will look like at that point but there should be ample OOC leeway for the two of you to get together. FBSSchedules.com (https://fbschedules.com/football-bowl-subdivision/) is, of course, not official but shows plenty of space in both your calendars starting in 2026.

[Libertine]

Did everyone see the NCAA president's recommendation allowing for a new subdivision of the FBS to pay their players directly?

The P5/P4 and G5 split happening as predicted... makes Delaware's move seem even dumber IMO. Inevitable recombining of G5 / some FCS into a new FBS tier inbound.

Actually, I think quite the opposite, this makes UD's move all the more prescient. The proposal doesn't limit schools' future designations by their current designation and, as proposed would only require that the university invest a minimum of $30K into NIL. In terms of scale, $30K as an NIL fund is peanuts even at the FCS level and the notion that this is somehow going to separate the wheat from the chaff is laughable. There would be some schools who can't or won't create such a fund and there's no shame in that but, at the D1 level, I don't know what schools couldn't find $30K if it meant they would be otherwise "relegated" to a lower division. If that school exists in D1, they probably shouldn't be D1 in the first place. Again, no shame in that but D1 is what D1 is.

However, for UD, making the move to FBS now is better in terms of building their program to that end. There's no guarantee that this proposal will ever get off the ground with the NCAA membership; there have been plenty of things proposed by the NCAA that never went anywhere -- remember instant replay on the sidelines, anyone? -- and, by the time it might eventually be approved, there's no guarantee that $30K will be the magical arbitrary cutoff number either. Still, UD jumping into FBS now gives them a head start on the logistics of large-scale NIL and allows them to build fundraising momentum that might be necessary.

Should this proposal pass, athletic departments around the country -- especially at the FCS level -- would be having internal conversations with their campus administrators and with their alumni about whether funding NIL is worth the cost. At $30K, that conversation would probably be pretty quick and quiet. But, for example, let's say that the cutoff number ends up at $500K or $1 million and, suddenly, that conversation might become longer and more heated. But, for UD, probably not because they would have already adapted to a different financial reality.

[smilo]

Actually, I think quite the opposite, this makes UD's move all the more prescient. The proposal doesn't limit schools' future designations by their current designation and, as proposed would only require that the university invest a minimum of $30K into NIL. In terms of scale, $30K as an NIL fund is peanuts even at the FCS level and the notion that this is somehow going to separate the wheat from the chaff is laughable. There would be some schools who can't or won't create such a fund and there's no shame in that but, at the D1 level, I don't know what schools couldn't find $30K if it meant they would be otherwise "relegated" to a lower division. If that school exists in D1, they probably shouldn't be D1 in the first place. Again, no shame in that but D1 is what D1 is.


$30k per athlete per year, including women's sports. That's got to be an eight figure investment.

[The Yo Show]

30k per year per athlete minimum... lol. And since this is a competition, theres nothing saying it won't ever increase.

[Sitting Bull]

Actually, I think quite the opposite, this makes UD's move all the more prescient. The proposal doesn't limit schools' future designations by their current designation and, as proposed would only require that the university invest a minimum of $30K into NIL. In terms of scale, $30K as an NIL fund is peanuts even at the FCS level and the notion that this is somehow going to separate the wheat from the chaff is laughable. There would be some schools who can't or won't create such a fund and there's no shame in that but, at the D1 level, I don't know what schools couldn't find $30K if it meant they would be otherwise "relegated" to a lower division. If that school exists in D1, they probably shouldn't be D1 in the first place. Again, no shame in that but D1 is what D1 is.

However, for UD, making the move to FBS now is better in terms of building their program to that end. There's no guarantee that this proposal will ever get off the ground with the NCAA membership; there have been plenty of things proposed by the NCAA that never went anywhere -- remember instant replay on the sidelines, anyone? -- and, by the time it might eventually be approved, there's no guarantee that $30K will be the magical arbitrary cutoff number either. Still, UD jumping into FBS now gives them a head start on the logistics of large-scale NIL and allows them to build fundraising momentum that might be necessary.

Should this proposal pass, athletic departments around the country -- especially at the FCS level -- would be having internal conversations with their campus administrators and with their alumni about whether funding NIL is worth the cost. At $30K, that conversation would probably be pretty quick and quiet. But, for example, let's say that the cutoff number ends up at $500K or $1 million and, suddenly, that conversation might become longer and more heated. But, for UD, probably not because they would have already adapted to a different financial reality.

Have no idea but the timing just seems more absurd given the additional $5m shelled out - now the step up much of this was rationalized upon seems suspect now.

You could end up where the lower division will now include G5 and FCS. If they are now one in same stature, I wonder if hens would still prefer to be playing these new rivals.

[unknown-swac]

I wonder does Liberty wish that they were still FCS right now considering they're about to play in the Fiesta Bowl.

[The Boogie Down]

You make a ton of sense but just know a few Delaware and Massachusetts fans that want to rekindle an old East Coast rivalry and are trying to keep the dream alive

Libertine does make sense but from what I hear it's not just the fans dreaming up a UMass to the CUSA move.

[gophoenix]

if the P5 breakaway, which seems likely to pay players. The rest of what's left in the FBS and some of the FCS would end up together. You'd essentially be left with 3 divisions in D1. There's no way the the rest of FBS would be ok with a merger of everything given the mass of money that they invested to move just to end up back in essentially what is the FCS. There's enough political clout from those schools that that wouldn't happen. But then again, a lot of money dries up if the P5 break away too.

It is funny, in this massively socialist leaning world that something like the NCAA becoming more exclusionary is seen as a net good. The NCAA doesn't even really operate on free market principals.

[Libertine]

30k per year per athlete minimum... lol.

xembarrassedx xembarrassedx

Oops. The article I read left the "per athlete" part out. Kind of an important detail.

Still, as it pertains to UD, the logic of the FBS move remains the same.

[MR. CHICKEN]

THOUGHT AH HEARD ON GMA DIS AM......SKOOLS...OWNLY HALFTA INCLUDE....@ LEAST.....HALF UH ALL AFFLETES...........T/F?......AWQ?

[DFW HOYA]

Charlie Baker's proposal isn't a rule and will get its share of changes. But how is the $30K defined for an "eligible" athlete?

At UD, there are 634 student athletes. If all are "eligible", the 50% minimum funding would be $9.5 million a year.

Is "eligible" merely scholarship athletes? If only scholarship athletes are "eligible", the funding for would be $3 million a year.

[caribbeanhen]

University freezes hiring and travel amidst “significant financial pressure”

https://udreview.com/university-freezes-hiring-and-travel-amidst-significant-financial-pressure/

“The university is under significant financial pressure from multiple sources this year,” Assanis told the JFC on Feb. 1. “High inflation rates have driven up prices for all the goods and services that the university needs to continue to operate.
“Most importantly, higher personnel costs, especially for health care, have made it more expensive for UD to attract and retain the excellent faculty and staff members who are essential to providing our students with great educational opportunities.”

[Sitting Bull]

University freezes hiring and travel amidst “significant financial pressure”

https://udreview.com/university-freezes-hiring-and-travel-amidst-significant-financial-pressure/

“The university is under significant financial pressure from multiple sources this year,” Assanis told the JFC on Feb. 1. “High inflation rates have driven up prices for all the goods and services that the university needs to continue to operate.
“Most importantly, higher personnel costs, especially for health care, have made it more expensive for UD to attract and retain the excellent faculty and staff members who are essential to providing our students with great educational opportunities.”

That sounds alarming though to what degree is anyone’s guess. The AD said the move was all about money and marketing growth so she must have sold it well internally.

I don’t think it would make any difference though to Blowendope, Hens pick 2 numbers or much of the other cast members at GoHens.

[MR. CHICKEN]

33289


.....THERE'S UH SEASON TICKET PROMO...GOIN' ON DIS MONTH....IFFIN' YA GET 'UM BY FEB 29TH......THEN NEXT YEARS TICKETS... (CONF USA).......WILL BE SAME PRICE....AS DIS SEASON.........
.....SO......DOESN'T SEEM TA BE UH 911....IN DUH AFFLETIC DEPT..................DOODLE-DOO!

ps....HOWEVERAH.....DERE'S UH MORATORIUM......ON BEAR CLAWS & [email protected] MEETIN'S...&..UH...HIRIN' FREEZE...TA BOOT........ -$$$$$....AWK$

[caribbeanhen]

That sounds alarming though to what degree is anyone’s guess. The AD said the move was all about money and marketing growth so she must have sold it well internally.

I don’t think it would make any difference though to Blowendope, Hens pick 2 numbers or much of the other cast members at GoHens.

This problem is just not a UD problem is the bigger point. How many other colleges are experiencing these economic realities ?

what will be the impact on colleges that play football at the FCS level?

Maybe the article is actually telling us why UD thought it was suddenly imperative to make the jump to FBS

[mainejeff]

This problem is just not a UD problem is the bigger point. How many other colleges are experiencing these economic realities ?

what will be the impact on colleges that play football at the FCS level?

Maybe the article is actually telling us why UD thought it was suddenly imperative to make the jump to FBS

Sure Jan.

[MR. CHICKEN]

University freezes hiring and travel amidst “significant financial pressure”

https://udreview.com/university-freezes-hiring-and-travel-amidst-significant-financial-pressure/

“The university is under significant financial pressure from multiple sources this year,” Assanis told the JFC on Feb. 1. “High inflation rates have driven up prices for all the goods and services that the university needs to continue to operate.
“Most importantly, higher personnel costs, especially for health care, have made it more expensive for UD to attract and retain the excellent faculty and staff members who are essential to providing our students with great educational opportunities.”


33295

....U. of DELAWARE WORKERS R CONSIDERED STATE EMPLOYEES.......THE STATE'S ASKIN' FO'..... 27% INCREASE IN HEALTH CARE PREMIUM COSTS......FO' BOTH STATE/EMPLOYEE.....SHARES.....HENRIETTAH....IS RETIRED UD.....THEY'RE TRYIN' TA SWITCH MED. COVERAGE TO MANAGED CARE.....WHICH IS CURRENTLAH....TIED UP IN COURTS............BRAWK!

[Sitting Bull]

This problem is just not a UD problem is the bigger point. How many other colleges are experiencing these economic realities ?

what will be the impact on colleges that play football at the FCS level?

Maybe the article is actually telling us why UD thought it was suddenly imperative to make the jump to FBS

If they were joining the ACC, sure. Im not convinced CUSA is going to suddenly explode new dollars into the University during the period of Bidenomics (the irony).

Wrong place, wrong time. That’s just how it looks .

[MR. CHICKEN]

If they were joining the ACC, sure. Im not convinced CUSA is going to suddenly explode new dollars into the University during the period of Bidenomics (the irony).

Wrong place, wrong time. That’s just how it looks .

....HENS GET...TRIPLE DUH TV DUCATS.....THAT FLO........FUNNELS......TA NEWARK!......💰.....BAWK!

....WALL STREET'S...IN DUH STRATUS.........WHAT'S DAT BOOK...'BOUT ALL DOSE PIGGIES?.........AWK!

[mainejeff]

If they were joining the ACC, sure. Im not convinced CUSA is going to suddenly explode new dollars into the University during the period of Bidenomics (the irony).

Wrong place, wrong time. That’s just how it looks .

The CAA sure wasn't the place for them either. In fact right now the CAA isn't a good place for most of the football playing schools. I'm sure that Hampton and Bryant are happy though.

[Sitting Bull]

....HENS GET...TRIPLE DUH TV DUCATS.....THAT FLO........FUNNELS......TA NEWARK!......💰.....BAWK!

I’m sure but suddenly having league games in El Paso and Ruston Louisiana will have more than triple expenses. If I were a UD fan, I would be more concerned with the impact on the fanbase if you start losing in a league of schools with zero interest. I know the whole argument about the excitement from younger fans on the move but time will tell if Middle Tennessee and Kennesaw are the new schools they associate with the “big time”. Especially when you have blank Saturday slates in October.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I’m sure but suddenly having league games in El Paso and Ruston Louisiana will have more than triple expenses. If I were a UD fan, I would be more concerned with the impact on the fanbase if you start losing in a league of schools with zero interest. I know the whole argument about the excitement from younger fans on the move but time will tell if Middle Tennessee and Kennesaw are the new schools they associate with the “big time”. Especially when you have blank Saturday slates in October.


.....GAMES WHIFF COLORADO- VIRGINIA -WAKE FOREST-PENN STATE....... ETC.......SHOOD COVER SOME BILLS.........AN' A'LL....GET MAH LEAVES UP....ON DUH WEEKEND........OR GO BACK TA HIGHSKOOL GAMES LIKE AH USED TA......AWK!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I wrote about this back in December, and I pretty much still feel the same about it. It's a seismic event for the CAA, mostly, that leaves everyone poorer.

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/opinion-delaware-is-reportedly-on-their-way-to-conference-usa-what-does-that-mean-for-east-coast-fcs-football/


(https://www.college-sports-journal.com/opinion-delaware-is-reportedly-on-their-way-to-conference-usa-what-does-that-mean-for-east-coast-fcs-football/)
Though its membership has always been fluid – James Madison, Old Dominion and Georgia State at various times have been members, as well as VCU in basketball – the loss of Delaware is one that cuts much deeper than those.

That’s because Delaware has always felt like one of the foundational blocks of the football side of the house and appear to have been one of the architects of shifting the conference’s affiliation to the CAA from the Atlantic 10. “We are pleased to be able to have all of our sports teams under the banner of one conference for the first time since 1970,” Delaware Director of Athletics Edgar Johnson said at the time. (http://www1.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2005/mar/caa050505.html) “The CAA is an outstanding conference and having all of our sports there will be a plus for both the University of Delaware and the CAA. We are now able to brand our athletics program with one conference logo.”

It's really the end of an era - the end of nurturing and caring for a special regional Rivalry like Delaware/Villanova. I'm not here to judge Delaware's move and what they felt they needed to do to keep their football team relevant, but losing Delaware/Villanova has cut the heart out of CAA football. Villanova can't just replace Delaware with Towson or even Richmond or William and Mary. It's just not the same.

[caribbeanhen]

Sure Jan.

have you seen my frisbee Jeffery?

what does the Brady Bunch have to with this

[NY Crusader 2010]

I wrote about this back in December, and I pretty much still feel the same about it. It's a seismic event for the CAA, mostly, that leaves everyone poorer.

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/opinion-delaware-is-reportedly-on-their-way-to-conference-usa-what-does-that-mean-for-east-coast-fcs-football/


(https://www.college-sports-journal.com/opinion-delaware-is-reportedly-on-their-way-to-conference-usa-what-does-that-mean-for-east-coast-fcs-football/)

It's really the end of an era - the end of nurturing and caring for a special regional Rivalry like Delaware/Villanova. I'm not here to judge Delaware's move and what they felt they needed to do to keep their football team relevant, but losing Delaware/Villanova has cut the heart out of CAA football. Villanova can't just replace Delaware with Towson or even Richmond or William and Mary. It's just not the same.

Agree. Perhaps, since the CAA Football membership sits at an odd number of 15 teams, Villanova could adopt Georgetown as its rivalry week opponent. This would allow both the CAA AND the PL to have a clean rivalry week to close season:

W&M-Richmond
Elon-Campbell
Towson-Monmouth
Albany-Stony Brook
Hampton-A&T
Maine-UNH
Bryant-URI
Villanova-Georgetown
Holy Cross-Fordham
Lehigh-Lafayette
Colgate-Bucknell

You're welcome.

And maybe 4 or 5 straight whoopings by their institutional arch-rival in football would get some momentum going at Georgetown as far as scholarship funding.

[Sader87]

Agree. Perhaps, since the CAA Football membership sits at an odd number of 15 teams, Villanova could adopt Georgetown as its rivalry week opponent. This would allow both the CAA AND the PL to have a clean rivalry week to close season:

W&M-Richmond
Elon-Campbell
Towson-Monmouth
Albany-Stony Brook
Hampton-A&T
Maine-UNH
Bryant-URI
Villanova-Georgetown
Holy Cross-Fordham
Lehigh-Lafayette
Colgate-Bucknell

You're welcome.

And maybe 4 or 5 straight whoopings by their institutional arch-rival in football would get some momentum going at Georgetown as far as scholarship funding.

We really need to make Fordham (or someone else, Colgate?) a yearly end of the regular season game.

So many seasons since we dropped the BC series just seem to end with a whimper instead of a bang. (Years we don't go to the playoffs anyway)

[DFW HOYA]

We really need to make Fordham (or someone else, Colgate?) a yearly end of the regular season game.


The PL has had years of ignoring rivalries outside of Lehigh-Lafayette. The last week of the season should include:

Lehigh-Lafayette
Holy Cross-Fordham
Bucknell-Colgate

[Go...gate]

The PL has had years of ignoring rivalries outside of Lehigh-Lafayette. The last week of the season should include:

Lehigh-Lafayette
Holy Cross-Fordham
Bucknell-Colgate

Georgetown-Villanova?

[caribbeanhen]

Georgetown-Villanova?

reading that made me think Villanova might be thinking about shutting it down again

or

moving out of the CAA

It seems such a waste of time
if that’s what it’s all about
good luck moving up
Cause I’m….
moving out

Billy Joel

[NY Crusader 2010]

Georgetown-Villanova?

Yes!

[Sader87]

I think if Villanova were evah to go to the PL as a football-affiliate, it might be soon.

The CAA has evolved into such a disparate group of schools today, Villanova has much more in common institutionally and geographically with the PL now than with the CAA.

[mainejeff]

I think if Villanova were evah to go to the PL as a football-affiliate, it might be soon.

The CAA has evolved into such a disparate group of schools today, Villanova has much more in common institutionally and geographically with the PL now than with the CAA.

And if that happens.....America East makes a play for Stony Brook, Monmouth and Towson.

Maine
UNH
*URI
Bryant
Albany
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Towson

*Merrimack or Sacred Heart for #9 football affiliation only.

*Football affiliate

[clenz]

33289


.....THERE'S UH SEASON TICKET PROMO...GOIN' ON DIS MONTH....IFFIN' YA GET 'UM BY FEB 29TH......THEN NEXT YEARS TICKETS... (CONF USA).......WILL BE SAME PRICE....AS DIS SEASON.........
.....SO......DOESN'T SEEM TA BE UH 911....IN DUH AFFLETIC DEPT..................DOODLE-DOO!

ps....HOWEVERAH.....DERE'S UH MORATORIUM......ON BEAR CLAWS & [email protected] MEETIN'S...&..UH...HIRIN' FREEZE...TA BOOT........ -$$$$$....AWK$What that promo tells me is that FBS move didn't generate the burst of interest and sales that you'd think would come with such a move

[caribbeanhen]

What that promo tells me is that FBS move didn't generate the burst of interest and sales that you'd think would come with such a move

Next years schedule is not good and compounded by no playoff eligibility doesn’t help… a dead year

Ive heard reports that people who stopped going along time ago are at least showing interest again

we will see but truthfully, I’m skeptical as well

[Go...gate]

I think if Villanova were evah to go to the PL as a football-affiliate, it might be soon.

The CAA has evolved into such a disparate group of schools today, Villanova has much more in common institutionally and geographically with the PL now than with the CAA.

Georgetown would help itself with some revision in its grant-in-aid policies.

[MR. CHICKEN]

What that promo tells me is that FBS move didn't generate the burst of interest and sales that you'd think would come with such a move


33297


.....DELAWARE'S MOVE TA CONF-USA........IS PRIMARILY ABOUT.....BRAND/LOGO RECOGNITION.....ACROSS THE COUNTRY.....AS PRESIDENT ASSANIS....IS ANTICIPATIN'......DROP-OFF IN STUDENT INTEREST FO' COLLEGE ED.......IN YEARS TO COME....THE X-TRA COST FO' SPORTS WILL BE PICKED UP BAH C-USA TV CONTRACT....(TRIPLE CURRENT FLO SPORTS)...ESPN VIEWERSHIP/FBS GAMES.....WHIFF LIKES UH COLORADO/PENN STATE.......WE COODN'T GET DECENT CROWD FO' NORFF DAKOTA STATE.....NO REAL REASON C-USA VISITORS......WOOD BE ANY BETTER.......IT'S 'BOUT ASSES IN CLASSES........BRAWK!

[caribbeanhen]

33297


.....DELAWARE'S MOVE TA CONF-USA........IS PRIMARILY ABOUT.....BRAND/LOGO RECOGNITION.....ACROSS THE COUNTRY.....AS PRESIDENT ASSANIS....IS ANTICIPATIN'......DROP-OFF IN STUDENT INTEREST FO' COLLEGE ED.......IN YEARS TO COME....THE X-TRA COST FO' SPORTS WILL BE PICKED UP BAH C-USA TV CONTRACT....(TRIPLE CURRENT FLO SPORTS)...ESPN VIEWERSHIP/FBS GAMES.....WHIFF LIKES UH COLORADO/PENN STATE.......WE COODN'T GET DECENT CROWD FO' NORFF DAKOTA STATE.....NO REAL REASON C-USA VISITORS......WOOD BE ANY BETTER.......IT'S 'BOUT ASSES IN CLASSES........BRAWK!

Mr Chicken don’t need any sage cause he got it

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Who will visit the "FBS Tub" first, Lehigh or Temple? Initial logic might suggest Temple, however, I am honestly not sure if they will have a program in 3-5 years so the clock might already be ticking. Lehigh last played a regular season game in Newark in 2005. Interestingly, Temple's most recent game at UD was 20 years prior to that, 1985. Delaware won both of those games.

The 2005 OT win over Lehigh was especially crushing for the Mountain Hawks. LU blew a big 4th quarter lead then lost in OT on a missed XP. That was a precursor of the things to come that year. All 3 losses were in rather epic fashion....

[caribbeanhen]

Who will visit the "FBS Tub" first, Lehigh or Temple? Initial logic might suggest Temple, however, I am honestly not sure if they will have a program in 3-5 years so the clock might already be ticking. Lehigh last played a regular season game in Newark in 2005. Interestingly, Temple's most recent game at UD was 20 years prior to that, 1985. Delaware won both of those games.

The 2005 OT win over Lehigh was especially crushing for the Mountain Hawks. LU blew a big 4th quarter lead then lost in OT on a missed XP. That was a precursor of the things to come that year. All 3 losses were in rather epic fashion....

I remember that 2005 Lehigh game, Omar Cuff was a joy to watch and he was at his best that night if memory serves.

* 2007 at the Burg

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I remember that 2005 Lehigh game, Omar Cuff was a joy to watch and he was at his best that night if memory serves.

* 2007 at the Burg

Just dug this gem up. I drove down from Temple (I was still a student there) to meet my family at the game after watching ND beat Michigan in Ann Arbor to start the day. Still can't believe Lehigh lost that game....

Not sure about the stain, or recall what I did upon returning to Temple that night...
https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/428052485_7630619316970433_1690088994136944327_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=ZaFZxlyp5LEAX_btzod&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAINmDbx7VYpcu0T-h19lZlNz05YsjGc_0CkzHrB7U24g&oe=65CF64D4

[The Boogie Down]

Who will visit the "FBS Tub" first, Lehigh or Temple? Initial logic might suggest Temple, however, I am honestly not sure if they will have a program in 3-5 years so the clock might already be ticking. Lehigh last played a regular season game in Newark in 2005. Interestingly, Temple's most recent game at UD was 20 years prior to that, 1985. Delaware won both of those games.

The 2005 OT win over Lehigh was especially crushing for the Mountain Hawks. LU blew a big 4th quarter lead then lost in OT on a missed XP. That was a precursor of the things to come that year. All 3 losses were in rather epic fashion....


Lehigh/Delaware today is quite the mismatch. Aside from nostalgia, not sure why going forward that would offer much of a pull? Maybe you meant Lehigh/Delaware State? xsmiley_wix

I keed, I keed... Seriously though, I can def see Temple/Delaware becoming a thing. Maybe even a trophy game. Doubt Villanova fans would be too happy but I can see it being bigger than UConn/UMass or other G-5 rivalries like, FAU/FIU.

[caribbeanhen]

Just dug this gem up. I drove down from Temple (I was still a student there) to meet my family at the game after watching ND beat Michigan in Ann Arbor to start the day. Still can't believe Lehigh lost that game....

Not sure about the stain, or recall what I did upon returning to Temple that night...
https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/428052485_7630619316970433_1690088994136944327_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=ZaFZxlyp5LEAX_btzod&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAINmDbx7VYpcu0T-h19lZlNz05YsjGc_0CkzHrB7U24g&oe=65CF64D4

good memories and only $18 bucks

[NY Crusader 2010]

Next years schedule is not good and compounded by no playoff eligibility doesn’t help… a dead year

Ive heard reports that people who stopped going along time ago are at least showing interest again

we will see but truthfully, I’m skeptical as well

Hopefully Delaware ends up in the AAC or Sun Belt sooner rather than later. Those home schedules would definitely get fannies back in the seats. CUSA is an FBS incubator conference at this point. Put yourself on the map and wait for the next move.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Just dug this gem up. I drove down from Temple (I was still a student there) to meet my family at the game after watching ND beat Michigan in Ann Arbor to start the day. Still can't believe Lehigh lost that game....

Not sure about the stain, or recall what I did upon returning to Temple that night...
https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/428052485_7630619316970433_1690088994136944327_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=ZaFZxlyp5LEAX_btzod&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAINmDbx7VYpcu0T-h19lZlNz05YsjGc_0CkzHrB7U24g&oe=65CF64D4


..............DUH CONCOCTION...TA "WASH" CHECKS......??.................BRAWK?

[MR. CHICKEN]

33298

...WHILE... LOOKIN'....FO'....DUH DELAWARE PRESS CONFERENCE...(EXPLAININ' UD's MOVE)......WHIFF DR. ASSANIS/CHRISSI/C-USA COMMISIONER.....AH FOUND......CHRISSI.....&....UH VERAH OPTIMISTIC.....&......POSSIBLY INEBRIATED...xdrunkyx.....TOUCHDOWN CLUB.....LEADER.....:D....AWK

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/delaware-conference-usa/3706726/

[caribbeanhen]

Hopefully Delaware ends up in the AAC or Sun Belt sooner rather than later. Those home schedules would definitely get fannies back in the seats. CUSA is an FBS incubator conference at this point. Put yourself on the map and wait for the next move.

totally agree and like your incubator reference for CUSA

Delaware plays no FBS games in 2024

plays at Monmouth
at North Carolina A&T
at Richmond
at Villanova

hosts Bryant, Penn and Sacred Heart

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....WONDER HOW CARTY.....MIGHT.....MANAGE DUH ROSTER.......(LET STUDS SIT OUT DUH SEASON...FO' ELIGIBILITY NEXT YEAR...FO' EXAMPLE).....AWQ!

....TREZZ....MENTIONED 'WHILE BACK......YOU-DEE IS OPEN TO UH 12th GAME...DON'T KNOW 'BOUT FBS'ers......BUT THERE ARE SOME 11 GAME FCS'ers....OUT THERE......BUT WHAA WOOD BE DUH POINT.......AWK?

[caribbeanhen]

.....WONDER HOW CARTY.....MIGHT.....MANAGE DUH ROSTER.......(LET STUDS SIT OUT DUH SEASON...FO' ELIGIBILITY NEXT YEAR...FO' EXAMPLE).....AWQ!

....TREZZ....MENTIONED 'WHILE BACK......YOU-DEE IS OPEN TO UH 12th GAME...DON'T KNOW 'BOUT FBS'ers......BUT THERE ARE SOME 11 GAME FCS'ers....OUT THERE......BUT WHAA WOOD BE DUH POINT.......AWK?

from what I hear, Carty will not redshirt everybody like his Daddy Keeler did at Sammy

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh/Delaware today is quite the mismatch. Aside from nostalgia, not sure why going forward that would offer much of a pull? Maybe you meant Lehigh/Delaware State? xsmiley_wix

I keed, I keed... Seriously though, I can def see Temple/Delaware becoming a thing. Maybe even a trophy game. Doubt Villanova fans would be too happy but I can see it being bigger than UConn/UMass or other G-5 rivalries like, FAU/FIU.

No doubt that's true but it's more about the nostalgia for a genuine rivalry between the schools over the last 50ish years. Ask Joe Biden.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....DELAWARE ANNOUNCED H/H UCONN.....@ UD 9/13/2025....@ UCONN 11/27/2027

YOU DEES 2025 NON-CONFERENCE SLATE;

8/28 DELAWARE STATE
9/6 @ COLORADO
9/13 UCONN
9/27 @ WAKE FOREST

[Go...gate]

....DELAWARE ANNOUNCED H/H UCONN.....@ UD 9/13/2025....@ UCONN 11/27/2027

YOU DEES 2025 NON-CONFERENCE SLATE;

8/28 DELAWARE STATE
9/6 @ COLORADO
9/13 UCONN
9/27 @ WAKE FOREST

No more games with Colgate, I guess.

[bonarae]

....DELAWARE ANNOUNCED H/H UCONN.....@ UD 9/13/2025....@ UCONN 11/27/2027

YOU DEES 2025 NON-CONFERENCE SLATE;

8/28 DELAWARE STATE
9/6 @ COLORADO
9/13 UCONN
9/27 @ WAKE FOREST

UD's totally moved on from FCS competition for the time being. I hope they'll be a Northeast version of Marshall than UMass or even Georgia Southern. xprayx

[DFW HOYA]

Who's the next Northeastern school to jump?

I'll throw this one out for discussion... Stony Brook.

[aceinthehole]

Who's the next Northeastern school to jump?

I'll throw this one out for discussion... Stony Brook.

They are the only program reasonably capable and just crazy enough to consider it.

Just don't see any way a small private school would ever consider it, but only Holy Cross could probably attempt to make a case.

BTW - Outside of Liberty, has any private school made the jump up to I-A/FBS post-1981?

[Sader87]

They are the only program reasonably capable and just crazy enough to consider it.

Just don't see any way a small private school would ever consider it, but only Holy Cross could probably attempt to make a case.

BTW - Outside of Liberty, has any private school made the jump up to I-A/FBS post-1981?

I don't see HC leaving the PL anytime soon. The school has become wedded to the league overall athletically for the most part.

The only way I could envision HC going back to the FBS-level is if they were included in some sort of academic football league with the likes of BC, Duke, Wake, Northwestern et. al. that's created from the fall-out of the NIL/transfer portal changes at the highest level of the power conferences.

I can't think of a private school (other than Liberty) that has made the jump to FBS....the only ones that conceivably could do it are probably the Ivy League in toto. They obviously have the resources to do so but they really have no need to do so brand-wise, enrollment-wise etc

[Wolffan]

They are the only program reasonably capable and just crazy enough to consider it.

Just don't see any way a small private school would ever consider it, but only Holy Cross could probably attempt to make a case.

BTW - Outside of Liberty, has any private school made the jump up to I-A/FBS post-1981?

Stony Brook's student body and administration is so disinterested in football they could make the move to some wacky and faraway FBS conference and nobody would know or care.

Were it not for their past experience, Villanova would be a private school candidate to make the move in Delaware's wake.

[caribbeanhen]

Stony Brook's student body and administration is so disinterested in football they could make the move to some wacky and faraway FBS conference and nobody would know or care.

Were it not for their past experience, Villanova would be a private school candidate to make the move in Delaware's wake.


First paragraph is balls on!

[Sitting Bull]

....HENS GET...TRIPLE DUH TV DUCATS.....THAT FLO........FUNNELS......TA NEWARK!......💰.....BAWK!

....WALL STREET'S...IN DUH STRATUS.........WHAT'S DAT BOOK...'BOUT ALL DOSE PIGGIES?.........AWK!


Stony Brook's student body and administration is so disinterested in football they could make the move to some wacky and faraway FBS conference and nobody would know or care.
.

Wacky and faraway FBS conference? Isn’t that the very conference we’re talking about, CUSA?

I like these games UD is announcing but I think this has gotten a bit off track. These are OOC games. They don’t require moving your entire sports program to CUSA, you could do it as many already do in FCS. UD has always chosen to go the lower route on OOC. The majority of UDs football will revolve now around weeknight games, Kennesaw State, Jax State in Alabama, Sam Houston, Middle Tennessee etc.

[Libertine]

BTW - Outside of Liberty, has any private school made the jump up to I-A/FBS post-1981?

No.


Stony Brook's student body and administration is so disinterested in football they could make the move to some wacky and faraway FBS conference and nobody would know or care.

QFT. SBU could just as easily decide to join the Canadian U Sports league and play the University of Guelph every year and I doubt their fanbase would be in any way surprised, disappointed or intrigued.

[NDSU1980]

Stony Brook's student body and administration is so disinterested in football they could make the move to some wacky and faraway FBS conference and nobody would know or care.

Were it not for their past experience, Villanova would be a private school candidate to make the move in Delaware's wake.
I doubt Stoney Brooks administration could be any more disinterested or disorganized about going FBS than NDSU's is. All we hear from our AD is "we're waiting for an opportunity". And of course we have our share of fans that don't want to move up too, unfortunately, or they come up with totally unrealistic scenarios as the only way to move up.

I'm pulling for Delaware to make this work. At least some schools have the balls to move up and don't care what conference they go to, just find a home.

[Sitting Bull]

[QUOTE=NDSU1980;3176402 At least some schools have the balls to move up and don't care what conference they go to, just find a home.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure I’d credit Idaho or UMass with the balls to move up. They both seemed idiotic and remain so.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Wacky and faraway FBS conference? Isn’t that the very conference we’re talking about, CUSA?

I like these games UD is announcing but I think this has gotten a bit off track. These are OOC games. They don’t require moving your entire sports program to CUSA, you could do it as many already do in FCS. UD has always chosen to go the lower route on OOC. The majority of UDs football will revolve now around weeknight games, Kennesaw State, Jax State in Alabama, Sam Houston, Middle Tennessee etc.


33304

.....AH'M NOT ON DUH UD MARKETIN' TEAM.....YOUSE EITHER BUY C-USA...OR YA DON'T......AWK!

....LIKE DUH MAC.....C-USA PLAYS COUPLE GAMES..FO' COUPLE WEEKS....ON ESPN....MID-WEEK.......MAJORITY OF GAMES....ARE SATURDAYS....LIKE EVERAH BODAH ELSE......ESPN SHOWS MID-WEEK GAMES....'CAUSE PEOPLE WATCH....(ACCORDIN' TA AD CHRISSI RAWAK..... 40X FLO'S REACH)........IFIN' IT'S UH COLD DAMP NIGHT IN NEW-ARK.....COME TUESDAY.......PROP MAH TALONS....BAH DUH FIRE......AN' TUNE IN.......AH'M OLD.....AH'VE SAT THRU.....DUH ELEMENTS FO' YEARS.....LIKE....SNOW PLAY-OFF WHIFF NORFFERN IOWA.....TWO INCHES ON DUH SEATS.......AN' ICE FO' YER FOOTIN'............AH GOT NO SHAME......STAYIN' HOME.........DOODLE-DOO!

.....AS FAR AS...FCS OOC'S.....IFIN' NORFF DAKOTA STATE CAN PLAY DRAKE......UD....IS ENTITLED DUQUESNE.....BAWK!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Stony Brook's student body and administration is so disinterested in football they could make the move to some wacky and faraway FBS conference and nobody would know or care.

Were it not for their past experience, Villanova would be a private school candidate to make the move in Delaware's wake.

Best opportunity for Villanova to revisit FBS is when the ACC inevitably experiences a Big East-esque split. Then you could see 'Nova aligned in a conference with the likes of BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Duke, Pitt and Georgia Tech. Perhaps UConn and Temple too.

[taper]

Best opportunity for Villanova to revisit FBS is when the ACC inevitably experiences a Big East-esque split. Then you could see 'Nova aligned in a conference with the likes of BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Duke, Pitt and Georgia Tech. Perhaps UConn and Temple too.
My tea leaves point to consolidation, not a split. Right now FBS has a P5 and G5, but the collapse of the PAC is taking that down to P4. Florida State is most definitely leaving the ACC, only question is when and how much money. I expect more to follow once those numbers are known. ACC will backfill from AAC and Sunbelt, who in turn will backfill. With the trend towards large conferences I see one of the G5 disappearing, leaving us with P4 and G4.

[DFW HOYA]

Best opportunity for Villanova to revisit FBS is when the ACC inevitably experiences a Big East-esque split. Then you could see 'Nova aligned in a conference with the likes of BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Duke, Pitt and Georgia Tech. Perhaps UConn and Temple too.

What, you didn't add Holy Cross?

A nine-win Villanova team averaged 4,248 a game in 2023. Explain how that sells to BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Duke, Pitt and Georgia Tech.

[NDSU1980]

I’m not sure I’d credit Idaho or UMass with the balls to move up. They both seemed idiotic and remain so.

That's when you need an extra big set. At least they are trying something. When you do nothing you turn off fans and donors.

[caribbeanhen]

I doubt Stoney Brooks administration could be any more disinterested or disorganized about going FBS than NDSU's is. All we hear from our AD is "we're waiting for an opportunity". And of course we have our share of fans that don't want to move up too, unfortunately, or they come up with totally unrealistic scenarios as the only way to move up.

I'm pulling for Delaware to make this work. At least some schools have the balls to move up and don't care what conference they go to, just find a home.

Didn’t necessarily take balls to fight for one of the lifeboats on the FCS Titantic, Delaware saw the future and got spooked and as luck would have it, made it into one of the lifeboats. Now they will be adrift for several years waiting to be rescued by a better FBS Conference. CUSA keeps em alive while FCS breaks in two and slips below the surface while Williamsburg plays the violin

[taper]

That's when you need an extra big set. At least they are trying something. When you do nothing you turn off fans and donors.
Right. Because their FBS move motivated donors so much both have a smaller FB stadium and lower attendance than NDSU.

[NDSU1980]

Right. Because their FBS move motivated donors so much both have a smaller FB stadium and lower attendance than NDSU.
Well watch NDSU have lower attendance too now. It's sad.

[Sitting Bull]

Didn’t necessarily take balls to fight for one of the lifeboats on the FCS Titantic, Delaware saw the future and got spooked and as luck would have it, made it into one of the lifeboats. Now they will be adrift for several years waiting to be rescued by a better FBS Conference. CUSA keeps em alive while FCS breaks in two and slips below the surface while Williamsburg plays the violin

Sorry Carib but I think FCS will survive without Delaware. At least we’re still playing traditional rivals and violins on Saturday vs a bunch of made up schools in a conference covering three time zones.

These are individual decisions. If Delaware thinks this is their best move go for it. The arrogance that somehow FCS is paying the bigger price for this stupid decision is laughable.

[caribbeanhen]

Sorry Carib but I think FCS will survive without Delaware. At least we’re still playing traditional rivals and violins on Saturday vs a bunch of made up schools in a conference covering three time zones.

These are individual decisions. If Delaware thinks this is their best move go for it. The arrogance that somehow FCS is paying the bigger price for this stupid decision is laughable.

just admit it

you liked that sea story didn’t you :)

[NY Crusader 2010]

What, you didn't add Holy Cross?

A nine-win Villanova team averaged 4,248 a game in 2023. Explain how that sells to BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Duke, Pitt and Georgia Tech.

Villanova football to the Big East was happening prior to the split. They apparently sold that to Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia at the time. The plan was to play at the Philadelphia Union soccer stadium.

Again, it's a long shot that 'Nova would revisit this. I'm just saying that an ACC split would be their best and probably only opportunity to do so.

[DFW HOYA]

Villanova football to the Big East was happening prior to the split. They apparently sold that to Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia at the time. The plan was to play at the Philadelphia Union soccer stadium. Again, it's a long shot that 'Nova would revisit this. I'm just saying that an ACC split would be their best and probably only opportunity to do so.

"Happening" may be a stretch. There was a trustees vote scheduled on the plan a week after Pitt and Syracuse announced its move. There was a school of thought that Pitt pushed for an early acceptance by the ACC in advance of any vote by Villanova which might draw away public consensus that it needed to leave.

I have always questioned the line of thinking by some that Villanova is FBS ready, often from the some of the same voices who would have Georgetown forced out of Division I. Georgetown doesn't have scholarships (a long and needlessly complicated situation), but it has access to something Villanova does not: an NFL stadium without a college tenant. A team playing at the Redskins/Commanders' new domed stadium would have immediate advantages that playing at an MLS park in Chester would never have.

That said, neither has the practice fields or S&C facilities needed to adequately recruit at a G5 level or above.

[NY Crusader 2010]

"Happening" may be a stretch. There was a trustees vote scheduled on the plan a week after Pitt and Syracuse announced its move. There was a school of thought that Pitt pushed for an early acceptance by the ACC in advance of any vote by Villanova which might draw away public consensus that it needed to leave.

I have always questioned the line of thinking by some that Villanova is FBS ready, often from the some of the same voices who would have Georgetown forced out of Division I. Georgetown doesn't have scholarships (a long and needlessly complicated situation), but it has access to something Villanova does not: an NFL stadium without a college tenant. A team playing at the Redskins/Commanders' new domed stadium would have immediate advantages that playing at an MLS park in Chester would never have.

That said, neither has the practice fields or S&C facilities needed to adequately recruit at a G5 level or above.

It's also funny that the ACC currently isn't represented in either of the DC or Philly metros. But, chances are the ACC in 5 years will be a shell of what is now. I expect a Big East-like schism.

[Go Green]

Villanova football to the Big East was happening prior to the split. They apparently sold that to Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia at the time. The plan was to play at the Philadelphia Union soccer stadium.

Not sure Pitt was ever on board with Nova joining the BE in football....

Why the last-minute problems with Villanova's proposed entry into Big East Conference for football? - syracuse.com (https://www.syracuse.com/sports/2011/04/what_went_wrong_with_villanova.html)

[NY Crusader 2010]

Not sure Pitt was ever on board with Nova joining the BE in football....

Why the last-minute problems with Villanova's proposed entry into Big East Conference for football? - syracuse.com (https://www.syracuse.com/sports/2011/04/what_went_wrong_with_villanova.html)

The last couple years of the "old" Big East, right before the split, were a whirlwind for sure.

[DFW HOYA]

The last couple years of the "old" Big East, right before the split, were a whirlwind for sure.

It was a whirlwind... of distrust. College presidents were openly pledging unity while actively working behind the scenes on new deals. I remember the quote from then-Miami president Donna Shalala: "We're committed to the Big East. You have our word."... WHILE they were seeking an offer from the ACC. Or the Pitt chancellor who argued not to accept a deal from NBC Sports while he was "allegedly" having information sessions with ESPN. The conference office was seeking or accepting bids from any school with a pulse, including, for those unaware, TCU, Central Florida, BYU, Air Force, Navy, and Boise State.

What the Big East has now is a unity of purpose. Sure, UConn may have other ideas, but the others aren't getting a call from the Big 10 or SEC. (Georgetown's odd combination of big time basketball before 4,000 a game and a marginal-budget Div. I football team wouldn't get a call from any conference right now.) A common purpose and common direction is a valuable, if rare thing in college sports right now. As a columnist at the Cincinnati Enquirer wrote a decade ago, "At this point, only a few things are certain: trust and integrity among college athletics officials are in short supply, replaced by greed and an every-school-for-itself mentality."

[mainejeff]

UMass won’t be joining Delaware….they are going to the MAC.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UMass won’t be joining Delaware….they are going to the MAC.

And now the MAC has an uneven 13 members. Maybe Delaware gets the next call.

[DFW HOYA]

And now the MAC has an uneven 13 members. Maybe Delaware gets the next call.

Delaware has already committed to Conference USA.

Does Holy Cross make a call to the A-10? If not now, when?

[Wolffan]

UMass won’t be joining Delaware….they are going to the MAC.

From reading the Delaware message board now and again it seems at least some Delaware fans preferred the MAC and saw it as a better ‘fit’.

UMass is going to be MAC in all sports (I think it was just football last time they were in the MAC).

[WestCoastAggie]

Why in the world wasn't Delaware also considered for MAC membership?

And also, that Charleston to the A-10 rumor is about to heat up!

[clenz]

WKU will be the 14th MAC school

It will be the conference that it should have been for the last decade but neither UMASS nor WKU was willing to admit it was their best home.

Also, this will move the already bloated A10 to a 14-team league and actually be good for them. They are a 1, 2 bid max, league at this point with how everything is moving and feeding another mouth for the uneven schedule makes no sense.

[ST_Lawson]

Delaware has already committed to Conference USA.

I was wondering if they might see the MAC reach out to another decently large public school in CAA football...Albany, New Hampshire, Stony Brook...someone along those lines.
All of them would be close enough to be decent travel partners with UMass.

[Wolffan]

Maybe UConn will enter the MAC as football only.

Delaware may be a bit steamed right now.

[Sitting Bull]

Maybe UConn will enter the MAC as football only.

Delaware may be a bit steamed right now.

Steamed? Maybe embarrassed. The MAC isn’t perfect but for a Northern/mid Atlantic university, it sure makes a lot more sense than CUSA. I wouldn’t mind if W&M made a run if an open spot. But they won’t.

Western Kentucky appears to have the inside track for the 14th spot if the MAC further expands.

[The Boogie Down]

Who's the next Northeastern school to jump?

I'll throw this one out for discussion... Stony Brook.

Despite other comments here I think Stony Brook has a decent fan base. No ancient history, not much recent history, not much media coverage AND playing FCS in what's clearly a pro-sports market? That's alotta strikes against them and yet they still outdraw every other FCS in the NYC area. Change FCS to FBS and I see those crowds drawing 3, maybe even 4 fold.

Now that UMass is in the MAC I can def see Albany (for geographic reasons) being a candidate to move up. If that were to happen Stony Brook would look to make the jump as well.


BTW - Outside of Liberty, has any private school made the jump up to I-A/FBS post-1981?

No but to continue the trickle down... If Albany got a call from the MAC and Stony Brook tried getting in on things too, THEN I think Fordham gives the FBS some serious consideration. To be clear,,, I'm NOT saying anyone at Rose Hill is considering FBS now. Nor am I saying they'd want to follow even if Albany and Stony Brook both made the jump. But there would be a debate and a case for could be made.

Even while playing off-campus at some future MLS stadium (which unfortunately seems to be planned for Queens, by the Mets instead of the Bronx, by the Yanks), Fordham would have NYC all to themselves. That's a pretty big plus. Comparatively, Villanova and Holy Cross have obviously been better at the FCS levels but they both have bigger strikes against them. The Wildcats would at best be Philly's second FBS team (I can see more from the area driving to State College for Penn State than Delco for Villanova) while the Crusaders don't seem big enough to support FBS football.


Does Holy Cross make a call to the A-10? If not now, when?

Doubt Cross to the FBS ever happens but Cross to the A-10 would be awesome! Along w/URI, Fordham, Duquesne and Richmond, Holy Cross would get the A-10 one step closer to its own football league.

[Sader87]

Who knows in this evah changing musical chairs landscape....but I highly doubt HC leaves the PL. It's not a football or basketball thing but more of a PL branding that TPTB at HC seem to like about the PL overall. About 25% of students at HC are currently playing varsity sports at HC....it's become sort of interwoven into HC's DNA today.

[caribbeanhen]

From reading the Delaware message board now and again it seems at least some Delaware fans preferred the MAC and saw it as a better ‘fit’.

UMass is going to be MAC in all sports (I think it was just football last time they were in the MAC).

a few were ok with FCS as well

[NY Crusader 2010]

Delaware has already committed to Conference USA.

Does Holy Cross make a call to the A-10? If not now, when?

Well, we turned down the A-10 in the 1990's I think. I believe it was the same time Fordham left the Patriot and joined.

1-0 record against the Big East this season aside, I have a difficult time seeing HC being seriously considered given the absolutely desolate 15 years of Men's Basketball we're coming off of. And that's if the HC admin is even interested. That being said, IF the A-10 decides to backfill UMass, there aren't too many 5-star fits left out there. The thin pool of candidates for the A-10 would probably include the following and roughly in this order:

College of Charleston, Drake, Belmont, UNC Wilmington, William & Mary, Hofstra, Siena, Holy Cross, Fairfield

Wild card: Would the A-10 consider going after a midwestern state school like Northern Iowa? Would UNI make that move if invited?

[NY Crusader 2010]

I was wondering if they might see the MAC reach out to another decently large public school in CAA football...Albany, New Hampshire, Stony Brook...someone along those lines.
All of them would be close enough to be decent travel partners with UMass.

Profile-wise, I actually think Towson is the most likely remaining CAA member to make a run at FBS. The MAC isn't inviting them but maybe C-USA will sooner rather than later.

Albany, SBU and UNH aren't looking to move up, I don't think. Although the MAC does already have a SUNY connection with UB, so who knows what could happen in 10 years.

[Wolffan]

Since Stony Brook’s administration and student body are thoroughly disinterested in football and the football program is struggling mightily to be competitive in FCS (2-19 over the last two years), one might see a move to the FBS MAC as a no-go from the get-go. (Given SBU’s academic reputation and size, I could see why the MAC might at least inquire.)

The MAC will find an FBS football program to add (if that is what they are looking for). Feel bad for Delaware but the timing for their FBS move may have been just a bit off in regards to MAC possibilities.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Despite other comments here I think Stony Brook has a decent fan base. No ancient history, not much recent history, not much media coverage AND playing FCS in what's clearly a pro-sports market? That's alotta strikes against them and yet they still outdraw every other FCS in the NYC area. Change FCS to FBS and I see those crowds drawing 3, maybe even 4 fold.

Now that UMass is in the MAC I can def see Albany (for geographic reasons) being a candidate to move up. If that were to happen Stony Brook would look to make the jump as well.



No but to continue the trickle down... If Albany got a call from the MAC and Stony Brook tried getting in on things too, THEN I think Fordham gives the FBS some serious consideration. To be clear,,, I'm NOT saying anyone at Rose Hill is considering FBS now. Nor am I saying they'd want to follow even if Albany and Stony Brook both made the jump. But there would be a debate and a case for could be made.

Even while playing off-campus at some future MLS stadium (which unfortunately seems to be planned for Queens, by the Mets instead of the Bronx, by the Yanks), Fordham would have NYC all to themselves. That's a pretty big plus. Comparatively, Villanova and Holy Cross have obviously been better at the FCS levels but they both have bigger strikes against them. The Wildcats would at best be Philly's second FBS team (I can see more from the area driving to State College for Penn State than Delco for Villanova) while the Crusaders don't seem big enough to support FBS football.



Doubt Cross to the FBS ever happens but Cross to the A-10 would be awesome! Along w/URI, Fordham, Duquesne and Richmond, Holy Cross would get the A-10 one step closer to its own football league.

I don't think we'll ever see Albany and/or SBU get invited to the MAC or look to move up to FBS. I know fellow SUNY school Buffalo made the move 25 years ago, but I don't see it. Out of all the CAA programs left, I see Towson as by far the most likely to look to make some kind of jump. Maybe as a travel partner to UD in CUSA.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Since Stony Brook’s administration and student body are thoroughly disinterested in football and the football program is struggling mightily to be competitive in FCS (2-19 over the last two years), one might see a move to the FBS MAC as a no-go from the get-go. With a new coach and the school’s high academic profile they may turn it around to .500 in the next few years.

The MAC will find an FBS football program to add (if that is what they are looking for).

Most likely candidates would be Western Kentucky or Middle Tennessee, both of whom supposedly approached the MAC 2 years ago when CUSA was on brink of collapse. UConn as a temporary football affiliate also possible as several have mentioned.

[clenz]

Wild card: Would the A-10 consider going after a midwestern state school like Northern Iowa? Would UNI make that move if invited?
Highly doubt. We have good rivalries in the MVC that are strong because of the MVC. We have no history with anyone in the A10 outside of LUC from their few years in the Valley. They Valley is a fantastic league. I think the uncertainty of what we can/would do with football while in the A10 moving forward would be a hold up. Also, it's a pretty damn lateral move at this point. The A10 is 8th in conference net, the Valley is 9th by just fractions of a point. Both are 1 bid leagues most years with the possibility of a 2nd if everything goes right. Given that being in a league with 15 to 16 mouths to feed off of that vs 12 in the MVC it's a losing proposition, especially because we aren't just sending MBB to the east coast. It's every sport. Also the NET for WBB is similar to MBB where the average of both conferences is something like 9-10 the last 4 years. Valley has been higher twice, A10 higher twice. Both are extremely high end "mid-major" ball. The MVC is significantly better in Volleyball and UNI is the standard of MVC volleyball. Top 25 every single year, NCAA tournaments, etc. UNI/Dayton this past season would ahve been one hell of a match. Valley softball is also significantly higher in NET. Tends to sit between 12-15 most years, and UNI is at the top of that with all of our titles/conference titles recently (just took down top 25 Auburn at Auburn this past weekend). The A10 is mid 20s-ish on average it looks like.

It would be leaving the Valley for the Valley - best case scenario - with 10x the travel costs and zero rivalry/history with any of the programs. Also regional, directional, public, teacher/business school isn't exactly the A10 demo. Though out of any regional, public, etc. university UNI is the closest thing to the A10 that exists at this point outside of the football issue.

If anyone from the Valley gets a call it would be Bradley, but they are going through some SIGNIFICANT issues right now financially, or Belmont. Extreme outside shot Drake would be a Midwest school, but that's getting pretty far west. If the A10 doesn't sit at 14 - which I think they do - I'd guess their first calls are CoC and Belmont

If we had a competent AD the last decade, I would be willing to make a case for UNI being the western offset for UMASS in the MAC - in fact about 09-11 UNI and the MAC were in the final stages of consummating that relationship but it didn't happen for one reason or another.

However, our previous AD was a gigantic failure all around in literally every single way possible as an AD. I could write War and Peace on his tenure. We are now so much worse off than we were in 2015, just before he took over.

We don't have a full time AD right now. Won't until probably late April/early May and an AD isn't going to move conferences in their first year. We are 2 years away from even talking to any conference should that ever be an option...emergency situations requiring a move not-withstanding.

Then again, our interim AD is Bob Bowlsby who I would trust to make a move more than pretty much anyone we could possibly hire.

[WestCoastAggie]

Profile-wise, I actually think Towson is the most likely remaining CAA member to make a run at FBS. The MAC isn't inviting them but maybe C-USA will sooner rather than later.

Albany, SBU and UNH aren't looking to move up, I don't think. Although the MAC does already have a SUNY connection with UB, so who knows what could happen in 10 years.


Don't laugh but A&T is a school that will make an FBS jump if the offer is compelling enough to do it.

[caribbeanhen]

Don't laugh but A&T is a school that will make an FBS jump if the offer is compelling enough to do it.

hopefully CUSA…..

[UNAPride]

Don't laugh but A&T is a school that will make an FBS jump if the offer is compelling enough to do it.

There needs to be at least one HBCU in FBS. Why not y'all?

But, tell me about A&T's football attendance. It was similar to UNA's this past season at about 9,500. Was it more when y'all were in the MEAC playing other HBCUs regularly?

UNA's has declined a bit since transitioning from D2, which has been sad to watch. I know attendance isn't what moving to FBS is all about but Jackson State and even Alabama State have better attendance than several MAC and CUSA schools.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There needs to be at least one HBCU in FBS. Why not y'all?

But, tell me about A&T's football attendance. It was similar to UNA's this past season at about 9,500. Was it more when y'all were in the MEAC playing other HBCUs regularly?

UNA's has declined a bit since transitioning from D2, which has been sad to watch. I know attendance isn't what moving to FBS is all about but Jackson State and even Alabama State have better attendance than several MAC and CUSA schools.

Possibly the case study that is Florida A&M. They tried to move up around 2003, I think they were slated to go into the OLD Conference USA and the move was a total flop. That debacle, followed by the hazing scandal a few years later set the program back 15 years. It's only the last couple years they've started to return to the level they were at during the 80's and 90's.

I would like to see an HBCU in FBS too and I think if anyone it would be Jackson State. Relative to neighboring Alabama and Louisiana, the state of Mississippi is somewhat under-saturated with just three existing FBS programs. NC A&T an outside possibility too. FBS aside, I'm of the belief that the HBCU schools are stronger together. Hampton and A&T would be better off back in the MEAC and going all in on the Celebration Bowl IMO.

[NY Crusader 2010]

hopefully CUSA…..

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see CUSA go on a mass invite blitz and bring in Missouri State, Towson, A&T and Jackson State. Why not at this point? Nothing to lose.

[UNAPride]

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see CUSA go on a mass invite blitz and bring in Missouri State, Towson, A&T and Jackson State. Why not at this point? Nothing to lose.

Rumors are Missouri State, then possibly EKU and Tarleton. So, taking two UAC schools. The latter two, mainly if WKU leaves. Otherwise, just Missouri State.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Highly doubt. We have good rivalries in the MVC that are strong because of the MVC. We have no history with anyone in the A10 outside of LUC from their few years in the Valley. They Valley is a fantastic league. I think the uncertainty of what we can/would do with football while in the A10 moving forward would be a hold up. Also, it's a pretty damn lateral move at this point. The A10 is 8th in conference net, the Valley is 9th by just fractions of a point. Both are 1 bid leagues most years with the possibility of a 2nd if everything goes right. Given that being in a league with 15 to 16 mouths to feed off of that vs 12 in the MVC it's a losing proposition, especially because we aren't just sending MBB to the east coast. It's every sport. Also the NET for WBB is similar to MBB where the average of both conferences is something like 9-10 the last 4 years. Valley has been higher twice, A10 higher twice. Both are extremely high end "mid-major" ball. The MVC is significantly better in Volleyball and UNI is the standard of MVC volleyball. Top 25 every single year, NCAA tournaments, etc. UNI/Dayton this past season would ahve been one hell of a match. Valley softball is also significantly higher in NET. Tends to sit between 12-15 most years, and UNI is at the top of that with all of our titles/conference titles recently (just took down top 25 Auburn at Auburn this past weekend). The A10 is mid 20s-ish on average it looks like.

It would be leaving the Valley for the Valley - best case scenario - with 10x the travel costs and zero rivalry/history with any of the programs. Also regional, directional, public, teacher/business school isn't exactly the A10 demo. Though out of any regional, public, etc. university UNI is the closest thing to the A10 that exists at this point outside of the football issue.

If anyone from the Valley gets a call it would be Bradley, but they are going through some SIGNIFICANT issues right now financially, or Belmont. Extreme outside shot Drake would be a Midwest school, but that's getting pretty far west. If the A10 doesn't sit at 14 - which I think they do - I'd guess their first calls are CoC and Belmont

If we had a competent AD the last decade, I would be willing to make a case for UNI being the western offset for UMASS in the MAC - in fact about 09-11 UNI and the MAC were in the final stages of consummating that relationship but it didn't happen for one reason or another.

However, our previous AD was a gigantic failure all around in literally every single way possible as an AD. I could write War and Peace on his tenure. We are now so much worse off than we were in 2015, just before he took over.

We don't have a full time AD right now. Won't until probably late April/early May and an AD isn't going to move conferences in their first year. We are 2 years away from even talking to any conference should that ever be an option...emergency situations requiring a move not-withstanding.

Then again, our interim AD is Bob Bowlsby who I would trust to make a move more than pretty much anyone we could possibly hire.

The A-10 was indeed a 1-bid league last year. However, that was the first year since 2004 that the league failed to earn at least one at large bid. The women's hoops league in the A-10 is very much a one-bidder.

I like the Missouri Valley and it's a league I would like to see continue to do well. A shade down from where it was in the 2000's obviously with Wichita and Creighton gone. St. Louis belongs in the Valley, they'd be a huge addition if they ever came to their senses and moved back out to you guys. I'm sure they're still holding out for Big East expansion.

[smilo]

I reiterate that the A-10 really needs to split into two (or even three) separate conferences because that is their best hope of more current teams getting bids than the status quo and will reduce costs. Unfortunately UMass leaving isn't going to inspire it because the group of five - now four - northeastern schools include the two that everyone ought to want to get away from in La Salle and Fordham. Thus, the eastern schools are in no rush to lose the little access to quality competition and tv deals that they have. In the case of Rhode Island, no options really exist since America East is a significant downgrade, although perfect for football. Fordham should be in no rush to hug the Patriot League if they aren't forced to. St. Joseph's and La Salle have zero incentive to move anywhere.

However, the five southern schools have two perfect candidates in Charleston and Wilmington, and another 2-4 feasible candidates that would form a superior and tight-knit conference, where the bid doesn't require knocking off Dayton to get one of them in.
The five private midwestern schools going off alone is not equally as obvious, but they certainly could have 4-6 regional midwestern privates with at least as much success as any of the eastern schools (not that they should force it if they can't peel off the best ones). They schools need all the quality win opportunities they can get and could really push for two locks before the conference tournament is underway.

[WestCoastAggie]

There needs to be at least one HBCU in FBS. Why not y'all?

But, tell me about A&T's football attendance. It was similar to UNA's this past season at about 9,500. Was it more when y'all were in the MEAC playing other HBCUs regularly?

UNA's has declined a bit since transitioning from D2, which has been sad to watch. I know attendance isn't what moving to FBS is all about but Jackson State and even Alabama State have better attendance than several MAC and CUSA schools.

Our formula is simple:

Winning + GHOE + NCCU or Winston Salem State + warm, dry games in September = 12,000 - 15,000 average. Winning the most important part. And contrary to popular belief, some our highest attended home games were against PWIs in September, and regardless of record, A&T is lucky to get over 10,000 people to games in November when it gets colder. October is a crap shoot due to Fall Break and Alumni gearing up for Homecoming (GHOE)

It'll be interesting to see how a home playoff run would go for us. Of course, we gotta win first.

And regarding sellouts, 1999 was the last time A&T sold out a game that wasn't GHOE, NCCU, or WSSU.

[mainejeff]

In the case of Rhode Island, no options really exist since America East is a significant downgrade, although perfect for football.

URI IS an America East program....playing in a Big East facility. AE is not a downgrade outside the strength of the top of the A-10.....and a much better fit for all other sports including travel.

[clenz]

The A-10 was indeed a 1-bid league last year. However, that was the first year since 2004 that the league failed to earn at least one at large bid. The women's hoops league in the A-10 is very much a one-bidder.

I like the Missouri Valley and it's a league I would like to see continue to do well. A shade down from where it was in the 2000's obviously with Wichita and Creighton gone. St. Louis belongs in the Valley, they'd be a huge addition if they ever came to their senses and moved back out to you guys. I'm sure they're still holding out for Big East expansion.
Moving forward both are in the same position. Both leagues are extremely good at the top, the middle makes or breaks the league, and the bottom is...well...the bottom.

Both are going to be between 8-11 in the NET in any given year moving forward. Both will have 5-7 teams in the top 100-120. However, the way the bids are moving, the way the metrics work and will be tweaked to favor the big boys even more, the way the NIT has been changed, etc. both are going to be 1 bid with a second on a weak bubble that may or may not burst.

The A10 put off losing that second bid a bit longer than the Valley but the time has come. Even without WSU and Creighton the Valley has had multiple bids multiple times (and lost a 2-bid year because of Covid) and when we get teams in the win games.

I'd love to see an A10/Valley type set up.

St Louis makes too much sense for the Valley, which is why it will never happen. That's a topic that's been beat to death a million times over by Valley fans. They are convinced they are next in line for the Big East, who has no reason to expand with how their TV deal is set up. They are hoping that being "marginally close" to Creighton and Marquette makes them look good, but it doesn't.

If Missouri State leaves for CUSA (I highly doubt it, but rumors and whatever) I'd love to see a full press put on for St Louis to replace them but who knows what that then causes with Belmont and Bradley and the A10. Though I'd guess St. Thomas gets a call from the Valley at that point.

So many "what ifs" that lead to a billion other "what ifs".

[TJT]

URI IS an America East program....playing in a Big East facility. AE is not a downgrade outside the strength of the top of the A-10.....and a much better fit for all other sports including travel.



Wrong. URI basketball spends far more and attracts many more fans than any AE program. While the last few seasons have been tough, it typically is better than all AE schools on the court most seasons.

Men's Basketball is why URI is not in AE. As long it has better options for this sport, it will remain that way.

[NY Crusader 2010]

URI IS an America East program....playing in a Big East facility. AE is not a downgrade outside the strength of the top of the A-10.....and a much better fit for all other sports including travel.

While I believe there is ZERO chance URI would consider the A-East anytime soon, I will give you this:

Right now, the MAC, which UMass just left the A-10 for, is rated BELOW the America East. So, UMass-Amherst could be playing in a worse basketball league than UMass-Lowell. I'm sure that's a temporary anomaly but pretty funny nonetheless.

[mainejeff]

Wrong. URI basketball spends far more and attracts many more fans than any AE program. While the last few seasons have been tough, it typically is better than all AE schools on the court most seasons.

Men's Basketball is why URI is not in AE. As long it has better options for this sport, it will remain that way.

That is incorrect. Vermont has been better than URI for 2 decades.

[TJT]

That is incorrect. Vermont has been better than URI for 2 decades.


Not per the NET and RPI rankings in most seasons. Not per postseason tournament wins wins since 2000. The two teams have also played a few times in that span and URI has won every game.

[clenz]

While I believe there is ZERO chance URI would consider the A-East anytime soon, I will give you this:

Right now, the MAC, which UMass just left the A-10 for, is rated BELOW the America East. So, UMass-Amherst could be playing in a worse basketball league than UMass-Lowell. I'm sure that's a temporary anomaly but pretty funny nonetheless.
A bit of a blip this year.

Year-MAC-AE conference rating
24-24-21
23-19-25
22-20-26
21-15-19
20-12-23
19-9-26

It's clear the MAC has slid pretty ahrd the last few years, but the AE is pretty solidly a 21-25 conference. The MAC traditionally between 15-20. I don't expect the MAC to stay on the downslide and in the 20s for long. Especially with UMASS and likely WKU coming in.

[NY Crusader 2010]

A bit of a blip this year.

Year-MAC-AE conference rating
24-24-21
23-19-25
22-20-26
21-15-19
20-12-23
19-9-26

It's clear the MAC has slid pretty ahrd the last few years, but the AE is pretty solidly a 21-25 conference. The MAC traditionally between 15-20. I don't expect the MAC to stay on the downslide and in the 20s for long. Especially with UMASS and likely WKU coming in.

The MAC taking in WKU should be a no brainer. The Colonels shot themselves in the foot when they "promoted" from the Sun Belt to C-USA. Supposedly, both MTSU and WKU approached the MAC in October 2021 when C-USA was on the total brink of collapse and the MAC decided to stand pat. Surprising IMO, given that those two schools would've been significant basketball upgrades AND would provide a southern footprint when it comes to football recruiting.

[clenz]

The MAC taking in WKU should be a no brainer. The Colonels shot themselves in the foot when they "promoted" from the Sun Belt to C-USA. Supposedly, both MTSU and WKU approached the MAC in October 2021 when C-USA was on the total brink of collapse and the MAC decided to stand pat. Surprising IMO, given that those two schools would've been significant basketball upgrades AND would provide a southern footprint when it comes to football recruiting.
WKU has been chasing the laser since they moved in 06 and they are going to end up where they should have been from the start.

IIRC both WKU and MTSU were essentially a done deal to the MAC but MTSU wasn't as committed and didn't say yes fast enough so they offer was pulled for both. The MAC wanted both and it would have been a homerun. They also didn't want an odd number so they pulled it from both.

UMASS joining means there is 100% another move coming, and there's no chance it isn't WKU. It makes too much sense.

The question is do they sit at 14 or do 16. I've read some that they want 16 and to just add to their existing pods/geography.

If they go 16 You'd see both MTSU and WKU, I'd think, it's that final team that becomes a bit of a guessing game.

You'd have

West
Toledo
NIU
EMU
CMU
WMU
BSU
WKU
MTSU

East
Miami
Ohio
BGSU
UB
Akron
KSU
UMASS
16th school

Unless they find one more in the west (say Illinois State just for ****s and gigs and more rumors) and shift Miami to the west. I'd think theyd actually want to find one more to the east though to go with UMASS for a pod. Which is where we get into "how committed to CUSA is UD and can they financially pull out of CUSA and head to the MAC".

If I were UD and WKU/MTSU are gone from CUSA you 10000% have to do everything you can to go to the MAC with them.

[NY Crusader 2010]

WKU has been chasing the laser since they moved in 06 and they are going to end up where they should have been from the start.

IIRC both WKU and MTSU were essentially a done deal to the MAC but MTSU wasn't as committed and didn't say yes fast enough so they offer was pulled for both. The MAC wanted both and it would have been a homerun. They also didn't want an odd number so they pulled it from both.

UMASS joining means there is 100% another move coming, and there's no chance it isn't WKU. It makes too much sense.

The question is do they sit at 14 or do 16. I've read some that they want 16 and to just add to their existing pods/geography.

If they go 16 You'd see both MTSU and WKU, I'd think, it's that final team that becomes a bit of a guessing game.

You'd have

West
Toledo
NIU
EMU
CMU
WMU
BSU
WKU
MTSU

East
Miami
Ohio
BGSU
UB
Akron
KSU
UMASS
16th school

Unless they find one more in the west (say Illinois State just for ****s and gigs and more rumors) and shift Miami to the west. I'd think theyd actually want to find one more to the east though to go with UMASS for a pod. Which is where we get into "how committed to CUSA is UD and can they financially pull out of CUSA and head to the MAC".

If I were UD and WKU/MTSU are gone from CUSA you 10000% have to do everything you can to go to the MAC with them.

100%

[The Boogie Down]

I 1000% concur w/NY Crusader 2010's 100% agreement w/Clenz that Delaware has to 10000% do everything they can to get in the MAC if WKU/MTSU decide to join the MAC themselves. Hell, if I were UD I woulda picked the MAC over C-USA from the get. I even said so here. But, now that all the exact percentages have been verified, wouldn't adding more Eastern teams make Delaware even more inclined to join the MAC? Also, wouldn't expanding east simply make more sense for the MAC too?

Originally I thought Albany/Stony Brook, but thinking bigger, wouldn't Temple/UConn (the Huskies as a FB only) make for a bigger splash to the MAC than WKU/MTSU? Specifically wouldn't adding those old rivals better excite what is now an apathetic UMass fan base? Wouldn't Temple/UConn also make the MAC way more attractive to UD?

Thinking bigger still... What about Army/Navy for all sports? Army might put in some good years in AAC football as Navy already has, but neither would be competitive when it comes to the AAC's olympic sports. The MAC however allows the academies to be competitive in all sports while also elevating each program from the not-so-good PL. Finally, it would give the MAC at least some national exposure.

My question for UD fans is:
1) If you could get a do-over, would you guys now prefer the MAC over C-USA?

And the 100000G Q for all fans:
2) If doable (would Army/Navy or Temple/UConn football have any interest in the MAC to begin with?), shouldn't the MAC go all in when it comes to the East?

[caribbeanhen]

I 1000% concur w/NY Crusader 2010's 100% agreement w/Clenz that Delaware has to 10000% do everything they can to get in the MAC if WKU/MTSU decide to join the MAC themselves. Hell, if I were UD I woulda picked the MAC over C-USA from the get. I even said so here. But, now that all the exact percentages have been verified, wouldn't adding more Eastern teams make Delaware even more inclined to join the MAC? Also, wouldn't expanding east simply make more sense for the MAC too?

Originally I thought Albany/Stony Brook, but thinking bigger, wouldn't Temple/UConn (the Huskies as a FB only) make for a bigger splash to the MAC than WKU/MTSU? Specifically wouldn't adding those old rivals better excite what is now an apathetic UMass fan base? Wouldn't Temple/UConn also make the MAC way more attractive to UD?

Thinking bigger still... What about Army/Navy for all sports? Army might put in some good years in AAC football as Navy already has, but neither would be competitive when it comes to the AAC's olympic sports. The MAC however allows the academies to be competitive in all sports while also elevating each program from the not-so-good PL. Finally, it would give the MAC at least some national exposure.

My question for UD fans is:
1) If you could get a do-over, would you guys now prefer the MAC over C-USA?

And the 100000G Q for all fans:
2) If doable (would Army/Navy or Temple/UConn football have any interest in the MAC to begin with?), shouldn't the MAC go all in when it comes to the East?

At least one UD fans interest level has taken a hit and he just don’t care.

The bigger question for me is how is college football at the G5 and FCS level going to grow fans?

Tremendous roster turnover… used to be you could watch a player get a scholarship out of HS and follow his progression…. That’s what fans do

You would know the players without a scorecard … real fans know

Now, you have to worry about your studs getting sucked up to FBS

A conveyer belt roster playing in a conveyer belt conference … FCS head coaches taking clipboard duty at FBS for twice the money

AA baseball… Here today gone tomorrow

[MR. CHICKEN]

At least one UD fans interest level has taken a hit and he just don’t care.

The bigger question for me is how is college football at the G5 and FCS level going to grow fans?

Tremendous roster turnover… used to be you could watch a player get a scholarship out of HS and follow his progression…. That’s what fans do

You would know the players without a scorecard … real fans know

Now, you have to worry about your studs getting sucked up to FBS

A conveyer belt roster playing in a conveyer belt conference … FCS head coaches taking clipboard duty at FBS for twice the money

AA baseball... Here today gone tomorrow




....EGG-ZAKLY!......BRAWK!

....SAME #'s ON BOTH SIDES UH BALL......NOW 2X AS HARD TA REMEMBER......DOODLE-DOO!




https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Go Lehigh TU owl https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=3162965#post3162965)
People have tremendous respect for Jerry Kill, not NM State football and CUSA football. In the world of FBS football CUSA is the PFL. I'm sure I can find a situation where a PFL team beat a .500 or so FCS scholarship program (Auburn equivalent).

Temple football had value for a moment. However, constant coaching turnover and institutional instability due to leadership issues has created a serious problem on North Broad.



Massey Composite averages for 2023 - C-USA is barely behind the AAC, and well ahead of the MAC

SBC .............. 78.17
MW ............... 80.58
AAC .............. 92.14
CUSA ............ 92.66
MAC .............. 98.03

....JES' SAYIN'......AWK!



...IT'S HARD TA BELIEVE UD DIDN'T DISCUSS...WHIFF MAC......PRIOR TA C-USA.......PROLLY COOD LIST...LOTS UH MAYBE'S......LIKE MAYBE.....MAC WASN'T READY FO' EXPANSION @ DUH TIME..AN' NOW ARE......WHO KNOWS?

[mainejeff]

It's too bad that ODU/JMU/UMass/Delaware weren't on the same page at the same time.....opportunities lost.

Had the future been known at the time.....the CAA should have attempted to go FBS as a conference back before they allowed every Tom, Dick and Hampton into the league. If the Maines and URIs didn't want to or couldn't go FBS.....then so be it. They would have had to find another FCS league to be associated with.

[NY Crusader 2010]

It's too bad that ODU/JMU/UMass/Delaware weren't on the same page at the same time.....opportunities lost.

Had the future been known at the time.....the CAA should have attempted to go FBS as a conference back before they allowed every Tom, Dick and Hampton into the league. If the Maines and URIs didn't want to or couldn't go FBS.....then so be it. They would have had to find another FCS league to be associated with.

I'm sure it would have, if that were allowed. Since the split, I don't think a conference has ever been allowed to "move up" from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS. The last two FBS conferences to be created were the AAC, which spawned form the Big East in 2013, and the Sun Belt, took over stewardship of the Big West sometime around 2001.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm sure it would have, if that were allowed. Since the split, I don't think a conference has ever been allowed to "move up" from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS. The last two FBS conferences to be created were the AAC, which spawned form the Big East in 2013, and the Sun Belt, took over stewardship of the Big West sometime around 2001.

There are no NCAA bylaws that prevent this; more often, the conferences do not have a critical mass of entrants that all qualify for I-A status. The WAC is a good case with this.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There are no NCAA bylaws that prevent this; more often, the conferences do not have a critical mass of entrants that all qualify for I-A status. The WAC is a good case with this.

Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Entire conferences in FCS have never been able to just "declare" themselves FBS -- there are barriers to entry. For the longest time, the only way for a school to jump to FBS, an invite to an FBS conference was required. Liberty exception to the rule.

[taper]

Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Entire conferences in FCS have never been able to just "declare" themselves FBS -- there are barriers to entry. For the longest time, the only way for a school to jump to FBS, an invite to an FBS conference was required. Liberty exception to the rule.
NCAA bylaws mean nothing when they violate federal anti-trust statutes.
Schools can't go FBS without an invite, yet Liberty did anyway.
UAC lost their petition to be a FB only conf, yet they did it anyway.
NCAA banned NIL, yet schools did it anyway and the NCAA received a 9-0 beat down at SCOTUS trying to enforce it.

[DFW HOYA]

Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Entire conferences in FCS have never been able to just "declare" themselves FBS -- there are barriers to entry. For the longest time, the only way for a school to jump to FBS, an invite to an FBS conference was required. Liberty exception to the rule.

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8838

[mainejeff]

So could they do it or not? The only barrier I see is ponying up $5 million each.

[Keeper]

So could they do it or not? The only barrier I see is ponying up $5 million each.

20.6.2.1.1 Eligibility for Reclassification. Before a Football Championship Subdivision institution may apply for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the institution must receive a bona fide invitation for membership from a Football Bowl Subdivision conference or a conference that previously met the definition of a Football Bowl Subdivision conference (see Bylaw 20.02.9 (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9013)). (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.6.2.1.5 Waivers. The Council, by a two-thirds majority of its members present and voting, may grant waivers of the requirements for reclassification from the Football Championship Subdivision to the Football Bowl Subdivision. (Adopted: 4/25/18)

Where's my lawyer?

I read this as the WAC previously met definition of a FBS conference, right? OR: does the two year grace period expel the WAC for good?
besides number of sports, are FBS teams required to maintain a minimum amount of scholarships? I dunno.
The easiest route would be C-USA invites, plain and simple. Will be end of the decade before the Power-4/ND take their goodies and split off from the NCAA, forcing a reclassification for the leftovers.

[Cocky]

The MAC taking in WKU should be a no brainer. The Colonels shot themselves in the foot when they "promoted" from the Sun Belt to C-USA. Supposedly, both MTSU and WKU approached the MAC in October 2021 when C-USA was on the total brink of collapse and the MAC decided to stand pat. Surprising IMO, given that those two schools would've been significant basketball upgrades AND would provide a southern footprint when it comes to football recruiting.


MTSU was the one who put a stop to it, not the MAC.

[NY Crusader 2010]

MTSU was the one who put a stop to it, not the MAC.

Thanks, a couple other posters also said something similar. I had no idea that was the case as, on the surface, it would seem absurd for a school like MTSU to not have taken that lifeboat. Did they think they had left the Sun Belt amicably enough to get invited back there?

[NY Crusader 2010]

20.6.2.1.1 Eligibility for Reclassification. Before a Football Championship Subdivision institution may apply for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the institution must receive a bona fide invitation for membership from a Football Bowl Subdivision conference or a conference that previously met the definition of a Football Bowl Subdivision conference (see Bylaw 20.02.9 (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9013)). (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.6.2.1.5 Waivers. The Council, by a two-thirds majority of its members present and voting, may grant waivers of the requirements for reclassification from the Football Championship Subdivision to the Football Bowl Subdivision. (Adopted: 4/25/18)

Where's my lawyer?

I read this as the WAC previously met definition of a FBS conference, right? OR: does the two year grace period expel the WAC for good?
besides number of sports, are FBS teams required to maintain a minimum amount of scholarships? I dunno.
The easiest route would be C-USA invites, plain and simple. Will be end of the decade before the Power-4/ND take their goodies and split off from the NCAA, forcing a reclassification for the leftovers.

Truth. C-USA right now is the conference for any warm bodies aspiring to jump to the "second level" of college football before the pending "Great Reset" that you describe. Will probably be P3 and not P4 by that point, if I were to guess. Wonder what handful of FCS schools C-USA goes after next. I could see schools like Missouri State and Towson possibly getting calls.

[caribbeanhen]

EF Hen says……. Missouri State is next up

[Bill]

EF Hen says……. Missouri State is next up
If that's a reference to the old EF Hutton ads...well done!xthumbsupx

[KPSUL]

Truth. C-USA right now is the conference for any warm bodies aspiring to jump to the "second level" of college football before the pending "Great Reset" that you describe. Will probably be P3 and not P4 by that point, if I were to guess. Wonder what handful of FCS schools C-USA goes after next. I could see schools like Missouri State and Towson possibly getting calls.

So, why Towson? They have a nice FCS Stadium, that seats 12,000. There is probably room for expansion there, but what would motivate them to do it? They've had one excellent year at the FCS level - 2013 when they lost ot NDSU in the National Championship game. Other than that, only one other FCS Tournament team I recall, and a couple others when they had very competitve teams that coulda, shoulda, woulda made it.

[NY Crusader 2010]

So, why Towson? They have a nice FCS Stadium, that seats 12,000. There is probably room for expansion there, but what would motivate them to do it? They've had one excellent year at the FCS level - 2013 when they lost ot NDSU in the National Championship game. Other than that, only one other FCS Tournament team I recall, and a couple others when they had very competitve teams that coulda, shoulda, woulda made it.

There IS room for expansion at Johnny Unitas Stadium.

Motivation? To play at the same level as peer institutions Delaware and JMU. Opportunity to be 2nd state school in MD to go FBS. DMV certainly has the talent pool to support another FBS program in the area. CUSA may want access to that market as far as recruiting. And perhaps the MAC would one day down the line as well.

As you know, there is often very little correlation between on-field success and ability to move up to FBS.

[NDSU1980]

Truth. C-USA right now is the conference for any warm bodies aspiring to jump to the "second level" of college football before the pending "Great Reset" that you describe. Will probably be P3 and not P4 by that point, if I were to guess. Wonder what handful of FCS schools C-USA goes after next. I could see schools like Missouri State and Towson possibly getting calls. I agree entirely. It's too bad that NDSU has an AD and a few fans that would rather stay FCS forever rather than start with CUSA and then move up when something better comes along. Gotta start somewhere.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I agree entirely. It's too bad that NDSU has an AD and a few fans that would rather stay FCS forever rather than start with CUSA and then move up when something better comes along. Gotta start somewhere.

You guys are better off staying out of that sewage dump of an FBS conference. Two years ago, when CUSA was down to like 3 schools, I actually proposed that CUSA could've created a Mountain West Division with UTEP, Sam Houston, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, NDSU and SDSU. Then you could have an East Division with Delaware, MTSU, WKU, Liberty, Kennesaw, La Tech, FIU and Jax State. That's 16 teams, so when the league inevitably gets poached, you still might have remotely healthy membership #s.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile, EKU may be stuck in the FCS for the time being as WKU doesn't want to move to the MAC...

https://flywareagle.com/posts/western-kentucky-not-anxious-leave-c-usa-mac-eastern-kentucky-stuck-fcs

[taper]

I agree entirely. It's too bad that NDSU has an AD and a few fans that would rather stay FCS forever rather than start with CUSA and then move up when something better comes along. Gotta start somewhere.
You're right in that there's few NDSU fans that would rather stay in FCS. Few to none. CUSA is not a stepping stone, it's a downgrade in every single way.

[caribbeanhen]

You're right in that there's few NDSU fans that would rather stay in FCS. Few to none. CUSA is not a stepping stone, it's a downgrade in every single way.

of course it’s a stepping stone

[MR. CHICKEN]

You guys are better off staying out of that sewage dump of an FBS conference. Two years ago, when CUSA was down to like 3 schools, I actually proposed that CUSA could've created a Mountain West Division with UTEP, Sam Houston, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, NDSU and SDSU. Then you could have an East Division with Delaware, MTSU, WKU, Liberty, Kennesaw, La Tech, FIU and Jax State. That's 16 teams, so when the league inevitably gets poached, you still might have remotely healthy membership #s.

Massey Composite averages for 2023 - C-USA is barely behind the AAC, and well ahead of the MAC

SBC .............. 78.17
MW ............... 80.58
AAC .............. 92.14
CUSA ............ 92.66
MAC .............. 98.03

[Sitting Bull]

There IS room for expansion at Johnny Unitas Stadium.

Motivation? To play at the same level as peer institutions Delaware and JMU. Opportunity to be 2nd state school in MD to go FBS. DMV certainly has the talent pool to support another FBS program in the area. CUSA may want access to that market as far as recruiting. And perhaps the MAC would one day down the line as well.

As you know, there is often very little correlation between on-field success and ability to move up to FBS.

The problem with Towson is a fan base, or lack there-of. They typically average about 5,000 per game. Despite the FBS attendance requirement being dismissed, no level headed administrator is going to accept making an economic leap in this era when you can’t even bring in average FCS crowds - even when playing close by rivals like Delaware, Villanova and W&M. And no FBS league is going to pine for a new member with such a weak fan base.

I agree their facilities are very nice. They are excellent for growing and competing within the CAA.

Baltimore, like most Northeast cities, isn’t a college town.

[NDSU1980]

of course it’s a stepping stone

You need to understand, they don't want a stepping stone. Certain people only want to move up through an unobtainable way.

When NDSU moved up from D2 we were in the Great West Conference which was a nothing conference, only had 4 or 5 members, but it was the pathway to greatness in the Gateway Conference AKA the MVFC.

[caribbeanhen]

You need to understand, they don't want a stepping stone. Certain people only want to move up through an unobtainable way.

When NDSU moved up from D2 we were in the Great West Conference which was a nothing conference, only had 4 or 5 members, but it was the pathway to greatness in the Gateway Conference AKA the MVFC.

Ok

I was saying it’s a stepping stone for Delaware

North Dakota State has no business in FCS for football at this point, bring a few more MVFC teams and I’ll work on Williamsburg, Richmond and Nova into CUSA Super FCS Conference …

Agree with Sitting Bull on Towson, they have no fan support

[atthewbon]

The problem with Towson is a fan base, or lack there-of. They typically average about 5,000 per game. Despite the FBS attendance requirement being dismissed, no level headed administrator is going to accept making an economic leap in this era when you can’t even bring in average FCS crowds - even when playing close by rivals like Delaware, Villanova and W&M. And no FBS league is going to pine for a new member with such a weak fan base.

I agree their facilities are very nice. They are excellent for growing and competing within the CAA.

Baltimore, like most Northeast cities, isn’t a college town.

This. Growing up in Maryland and knowing people who have gone to Towson, the football team is an afterthought for almost everyone. They have many of the other characteristics of a team that could move up, but I just don't know if the fan support is there. I think most Towson students I know who have even been to a home football game was the first game of 2021 vs NDSU and they were there for a half... Based on Towson's attendance numbers I'd assume there were probably more Towson students at the game at UMD than go to their home games. Things can change quickly, look at SHSU, and I'd imagine there is a desire for it after Towson has seen peer institutions Delaware and JMU move up but I don't see it right now.

[DFW HOYA]

This. Growing up in Maryland and knowing people who have gone to Towson, the football team is an afterthought for almost everyone. They have many of the other characteristics of a team that could move up, but I just don't know if the fan support is there. I think most Towson students I know who have even been to a home football game was the first game of 2021 vs NDSU and they were there for a half... Based on Towson's attendance numbers I'd assume there were probably more Towson students at the game at UMD than go to their home games. Things can change quickly, look at SHSU, and I'd imagine there is a desire for it after Towson has seen peer institutions Delaware and JMU move up but I don't see it right now.

Still wondering why Towson (or Villanova) can't/won't schedule Georgetown. DC is literally an hour from Towson's campus.

[Go...gate]

I believe UD might have been better served had it jumped to the MAC. Just my two cents.

[Cocky]

Thanks, a couple other posters also said something similar. I had no idea that was the case as, on the surface, it would seem absurd for a school like MTSU to not have taken that lifeboat. Did they think they had left the Sun Belt amicably enough to get invited back there?

Not thought CUSA was the better conference to be a member.

[Cocky]

Truth. C-USA right now is the conference for any warm bodies aspiring to jump to the "second level" of college football before the pending "Great Reset" that you describe. Will probably be P3 and not P4 by that point, if I were to guess. Wonder what handful of FCS schools C-USA goes after next. I could see schools like Missouri State and Towson possibly getting calls.

Dont be surprised to see the SBC or MAC take a FCS team. The SBC has just taken JMU from the FCS ranks. Could come down to who moves next or which conference has desirable teams? If the MAC or SBC have teams more desirable than CUSA then those conferences will be the ones looking.

[Cocky]

I agree entirely. It's too bad that NDSU has an AD and a few fans that would rather stay FCS forever rather than start with CUSA and then move up when something better comes along. Gotta start somewhere.


I was under the understanding NDSUs AD let CUSA know of their desire to consider FBS but CUSA didnt offer an invite. Lot of space between the member schools and NDSU.

[Cocky]

I believe UD might have been better served had it jumped to the MAC. Just my two cents.

From my understanding Delaware desired to be associated to a region of the nation growing than one losing population. More potential students in CUSA areas than the MACs. In recruiting, students not athletes, having exposure in the Texas and ATL plus VA has to be a huge advantage for CUSA. Exposure will be limited as G5 get just a little more than a FCS school but not much but its better to have it in a growing market.

[caribbeanhen]

I believe UD might have been better served had it jumped to the MAC. Just my two cents.

The MAC is the Hotel California conference…. You can check in anytime you like but you can never leave

[NDSU1980]

I was under the understanding NDSUs AD let CUSA know of their desire to consider FBS but CUSA didnt offer an invite. Lot of space between the member schools and NDSU.NDSU AD was quoted in the Fargo paper as saying they've had zero contact with CUSA. That would tell me he didn't even lobby to get in. Larsen has been quoted more than once saying "We're waiting for an opportunity". That's all the ambition he has.

[caribbeanhen]

NDSU AD was quoted in the Fargo paper as saying they've had zero contact with CUSA. That would tell me he didn't even lobby to get in. Larsen has been quoted more than once saying "We're waiting for an opportunity". That's all the ambition he has.

he had an opportunity

not necessarily CUSA

[Sitting Bull]

From my understanding Delaware desired to be associated to a region of the nation growing than one losing population. More potential students in CUSA areas than the MACs. In recruiting, students not athletes, having exposure in the Texas and ATL plus VA has to be a huge advantage for CUSA. Exposure will be limited as G5 get just a little more than a FCS school but not much but its better to have it in a growing market.

I don’t agree with that. UD fans and press mocked the CAA expansion into North Carolina. So you have issues with Campbell and NC A&T but fine with Kennesaw and Jax state? Not buying their desire for southern exposure. Most of their fans mock it. Oh well.

The MAC would have been a much better fit, particularly with UMass joining. But UDs transition just looked rushed and a bit delusional to me.

[caribbeanhen]

I don’t agree with that. UD fans and press mocked the CAA expansion into North Carolina. So you have issues with Campbell and NC A&T but fine with Kennesaw and Jax state? Not buying their desire for southern exposure. Most of their fans mock it. Oh well.

The MAC would have been a much better fit, particularly with UMass joining. But UDs transition just looked rushed and a bit delusional to me.

Again, the MAC is the Hotel California

[Wolffan]

At this point, given the fact they somehow missed on an upcoming MAC opening, UD fans can choose to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. In other words, pretend C-USA is a better fit than MAC. Some other fans are admitting MAC is a better fit but stressing that the timing wasn’t right. Others are suggesting MAC was only eyeballing UMass (once UMass agreed to bring hoops with it) and wasn’t interested in UD.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I don’t agree with that. UD fans and press mocked the CAA expansion into North Carolina. So you have issues with Campbell and NC A&T but fine with Kennesaw and Jax state? Not buying their desire for southern exposure. Most of their fans mock it. Oh well.

The MAC would have been a much better fit, particularly with UMass joining. But UDs transition just looked rushed and a bit delusional to me.

....WHO PUT DUH TACK......ON SPREADIN' BULLS CHAIR......📌......AWK?

[NY Crusader 2010]

At this point, given the fact they somehow missed on an upcoming MAC opening, UD fans can choose to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. In other words, pretend C-USA is a better fit than MAC. Some other fans are admitting MAC is a better fit but stressing that the timing wasn’t right. Others are suggesting MAC was only eyeballing UMass (once UMass agreed to bring hoops with it) and wasn’t interested in UD.

Who knows? The MAC still hasn't brought in anyone else...YET. Were they stonewalled again by WKU and/or MTSU? Will they stay at 13 for now with uneven divisions in football? We'll find out if there even is/was a "MAC opening". The UMass situation for all we know was the school coming back to the league, hat in hand this time, and caving on MBB and bringing all sports.

[Sitting Bull]

....WHO PUT DUH TACK......ON SPREADIN' BULLS CHAIR......📌......AWK?

This isn’t Gohens.net where you have to tow the narrative or get attacked. Between Tresolini and GoHens, you can’t pretend the attitude toward southern schools wasn’t mocked. It’s there for anyone to read. Now it’s your world.

[caribbeanhen]

This isn’t Gohens.net where you have to tow the narrative or get attacked. Between Tresolini and GoHens, you can’t pretend the attitude toward southern schools wasn’t mocked. It’s there for anyone to read. Now it’s your world.

somewhat true, but hey Newark is a college town. I’ve noticed a lot of disparaging comments about the south on there.

however, Richmond and William & Mary, both Southern teams, never seemed to be mocked and were actually highly respected. Hampton and Campbell were mocked and it seemed like when Bryant was announced … that was like the tipping point when most fans on gohens went vocal about wanting out of the new and not necessary improved CAA.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Again, the MAC is the Hotel California

And C-USA could be the old WAC 2.0. Let's be real and admit that the reason UD is in C-USA is because they wanted FBS and that's the FBS conference that invited them.

Also, programs HAVE moved upward from the MAC => UCF, Marshall & Temple to name three. The MAC is never going to get poached heavily by another league. C-USA could and literally every program in that conference would jump if the AAC and/or Sun Belt came calling. That being said, C-USA does have a large portion of members that are in similar straights, in the sense that they are hungry, up-and-comers from FCS and largely in the south. It has Liberty, which is inching to become BYU "East" and doesn't seem to have suitors at the moment as far as a path to a better conference. So as far as THE FOOTBALL, it is a better league than the MAC and should be going forward as long as it's able to have a core group willing to stay in it together. I mean, WKU and MTSU allegedly turned down the MAC to stay there, so maybe there's something to that?

[Cocky]

Why would we move to the SBC for less money? MTSU, WKU and Kennesaw are as close to us as any SBC not named Georgia State.

[Sitting Bull]

somewhat true, but hey Newark is a college town. I’ve noticed a lot of disparaging comments about the south on there.

however, Richmond and William & Mary, both Southern teams, never seemed to be mocked and were actually highly respected. Hampton and Campbell were mocked and it seemed like when Bryant was announced … that was like the tipping point when most fans on gohens went vocal about wanting out of the new and not necessary improved CAA.

Agree, nothing but respect for Virginia schools which is certainly reciprocated toward UD. My point was the distaste for Campbell as example while then joining a league with Kennesaw / come on.

[caribbeanhen]

Agree, nothing but respect for Virginia schools which is certainly reciprocated toward UD. My point was the distaste for Campbell as example while then joining a league with Kennesaw / come on.

They see it as game combined with vacation destination

Atlanta vs Sheets Creek, NC ….

don’t worry… I’ve made my Ruston, Louisiana and El Paso jokes on gohens….

[Cocky]

They see it as game combined with vacation destination

Atlanta vs Sheets Creek, NC ….

don’t worry… I’ve made my Ruston, Louisiana and El Paso jokes on gohens….

Glad to hear Jacksonville did not qualify for the jokes.

[Sitting Bull]

They see it as game combined with vacation destination

Atlanta vs Sheets Creek, NC ….

don’t worry… I’ve made my Ruston, Louisiana and El Paso jokes on gohens….

Campbell is closer to Raleigh than Kennesaw to Atlanta.

I’ve seen your jokes and like them. You keep them light over there.

[WestCoastAggie]

Campbell is closer to Raleigh than Kennesaw to Atlanta.

I’ve seen your jokes and like them. You keep them light over there.

But people seemingly feel Kennesaw is part of Atlanta. I don't know if Buies Creek feels part of Raleigh.

[caribbeanhen]

Glad to hear Jacksonville did not qualify for the jokes.

haha

You know Alabama will always hold a special place in my heart

[caribbeanhen]

But people seemingly feel Kennesaw is part of Atlanta. I don't know if Buies Creek feels part of Raleigh.

Well yes they do and the Atlanta Braves play right next to Kennesaw don’t they

[atthewbon]

Still wondering why Towson (or Villanova) can't/won't schedule Georgetown. DC is literally an hour from Towson's campus.

It would make a ton of sense. Towson does seemingly play Morgan State every year so that probably satisfies their desire for an annual local non conference game. Would be a cool local matchup though.

[etiger]

Towson already plays one patsy (Morgan State - we are 22-6 vs them all time) each year. Playing Georgetown would do nothing for us.

[Sader87]

Too bad Delaware posters won't post here anymore......somewhere Tubby Raymond sheds a tear

[WestCoastAggie]

Towson already plays one patsy (Morgan State - we are 22-6 vs them all time) each year. Playing Georgetown would do nothing for us.

It's a darn shame how the Battle of Baltimore is so one-sided. SMH.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Georgetown and Howard should be an annual game. Villanova and Penn should be as well.

Would be cool if 'Nova started a series with the Hoyas now that their end-of-season rival is moving to FBS. The CAA has an odd # of teams right now so would help the league for rivalry week purposes if someone played outside the conference. Not to mention the Patriot League has an odd # too.

[WestCoastAggie]

Georgetown and Howard should be an annual game. Villanova and Penn should be as well.

Would be cool if 'Nova started a series with the Hoyas now that their end-of-season rival is moving to FBS. The CAA has an odd # of teams right now so would help the league for rivalry week purposes if someone played outside the conference. Not to mention the Patriot League has an odd # too.

I don't believe there's much of an appetite for a Georgetown vs Howard annual game. There's more of a desire for Hampton vs. Howard than that GU/HU one.

[Wolffan]

Georgetown and Howard should be an annual game. Villanova and Penn should be as well.

Would be cool if 'Nova started a series with the Hoyas now that their end-of-season rival is moving to FBS. The CAA has an odd # of teams right now so would help the league for rivalry week purposes if someone played outside the conference. Not to mention the Patriot League has an odd # too.

Holy Cross v Merrimack is a good football rivalry between two Catholic FCS Massachusetts teams that should continue.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross v Merrimack is a good football rivalry between two Catholic FCS Massachusetts teams that should continue.

Meh....every few years maybe, not annually.

[DFW HOYA]

I don't believe there's much of an appetite for a Georgetown vs Howard annual game. There's more of a desire for Hampton vs. Howard than that GU/HU one.

As for Howard, the culture of the Mecca does not look outward and losing to Georgetown is not well received there.

[caribbeanhen]

As for Howard, the culture of the Mecca does not look outward and losing to Georgetown is not well received there.

Hey, I don’t think Macca has ever played the National Mall

[Laker]

Delaware is joining the Summit!




In men's soccer. Delaware set to join Summit League for Men’s Soccer in 2025 - The Summit League (https://thesummitleague.org/news/2024/4/3/delaware-set-to-join-summit-league-for-mens-soccer-in-2025.aspx)

[OhioHen]

Delaware is joining the Summit!

In men's soccer. Delaware set to join Summit League for Men’s Soccer in 2025 - The Summit League (https://thesummitleague.org/news/2024/4/3/delaware-set-to-join-summit-league-for-mens-soccer-in-2025.aspx)
Fantastic geographic fit! xnonono2x

[Laker]

Fantastic geographic fit! xnonono2x

None of the people involved in making up these conference memberships ever took my geography class.

[OhioHen]

None of the people involved in making up these conference memberships ever took my geography class.
At a mere 1100 miles driving distance on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and I-70, UMKC is UD's closest conference mate for men's soccer.
For flights, UST in Minneapolis will be the least inconvenient (around 3 hours each way with 5 non-stops daily between MSP and PHL). Denver is an hour-plus farther, KC only has one non-stop daily, and the two Nebraska cities require connections.

[Sitting Bull]

Part of the collateral damage of this absurd conference shift. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just cut the program. Unless their football program immediately wins into top 25 status, hard to see how even the most ardent fans will not tire from this insanity,

[caribbeanhen]

As the illustrious Mr. Chicken has told us multiple times, This story confirms what the major driver for the University of Delaware moving to CUSA.

hmmm maybe Mr C is the President of UD? Who knew


BY DANIEL STEENKAMER (https://udreview.com/?s=Daniel+Steenkamer)
Managing Sports Editor


https://udreview.com/assanis-conference-usa-move-to-help-university-get-in-front-of-enrollments-demographic-cliff/

“It allows us to recruit students to the university from many more regions of the country, not just from the Northeast, where we’re facing a demographic cliff (https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/looming-enrollment-cliff-poses-serious-threat-to-colleges/), but literally from all over the U.S.,” Assanis said Saturday at the Wells Fargo Center. “Florida, Texas, other centers of growing population with underrepresented communities, different socioeconomic backgrounds.”

[MR. CHICKEN]

33310



.......DO YA'S THINK.......SPREADIN' BULL.......WILL PUT UH CORK IN IT....NOW.....:D.....BRAWK???

[MR. CHICKEN]

At a mere 1100 miles driving distance on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and I-70, UMKC is UD's closest conference mate for men's soccer.
For flights, UST in Minneapolis will be the least inconvenient (around 3 hours each way with 5 non-stops daily between MSP and PHL). Denver is an hour-plus farther, KC only has one non-stop daily, and the two Nebraska cities require connections.


...IT'S 'BOUT....ASSES IN CLASSES.......'NOTHERAH MARKET..........TA MINE............DOODLE-DOO!

[Sitting Bull]

Your AD said it was about money ( which you seem to be running short) and marketing. Delaware was also one of the most outspoken against the CAA’s adds into North Carolina. Someone needs to get their story straight.

So if you think you will be gaining exposure playing the schools below, it again just shows how ridiculous this is. This is actually worse than the Idaho, UMass and ODU moves - and you actually had the time to study it.

Kennesaw State
New Mexico State
Louisiana Tech
Sam Houston
Middle Tennessee
UTEP
Florida International
Nebraska/Omaha
Denver
Western Kentucky
St Thomas
UM Kansas City
Jacksonville State
On deck; Tarleton State

Good luck convincing your fanbase this is either smart or a big time move. It’s a shame that the admin at UD played along with this. It’s a joke.

[Sitting Bull]

I don’t mean to pick any of the UD fans here. I just think it’s part of what’s wrong with college athletics today and a huge mistake at a respected rival. I can’t believe anyone with a map and calculator would approve such a decision.

[caribbeanhen]

I don’t mean to pick any of the UD fans here. I just think it’s part of what’s wrong with college athletics today and a huge mistake at a respected rival. I can’t believe anyone with a map and calculator would approve such a decision.

honestly the move does nothing for me personally, but it seems I’m in a distinct minority on gohens. I know you know this

I agree with them that Flosports is doing next to nothing good for CAA football, heck 80 % of the fans voting in the AGS poll had never even seen them play the past few years. That’s not good

[MR. CHICKEN]

xsmhx
Your AD said it was about money ( which you seem to be running short) and marketing. Delaware was also one of the most outspoken against the CAA’s adds into North Carolina. Someone needs to get their story straight.

So if you think you will be gaining exposure playing the schools below, it again just shows how ridiculous this is. This is actually worse than the Idaho, UMass and ODU moves - and you actually had the time to study it.

Kennesaw State
New Mexico State
Louisiana Tech
Sam Houston
Middle Tennessee
UTEP
Florida International
Nebraska/Omaha
Denver
Western Kentucky
St Thomas
UM Kansas City
Jacksonville State
On deck; Tarleton State

Good luck convincing your fanbase this is either smart or a big time move. It’s a shame that the admin at UD played along with this. It’s a joke.



.......DO YA'S THINK.......SPREADIN' BULL.......WILL PUT UH CORK IN IT....NOW.....:D.....BRAWK???

......GNAW.......DIDN'T THINK SO........xsighx......AWK!

......NEED TA RE-READ CARIB'S ARTICLE.....NOT 'BOUT SPORTS ......IT'S SHOWIN' POTENTIAL STUDENTS.....DUH MAGIC UH NEW-ARK!..........BAWK!

......LIBERTY IS DUH.....ALABAMA UH C-USA.......BUT HENS COOD BE 2nd FIDDLE REAL QUIK..........ER.....UMM.......BUK BUK BUK....BRAWK!

[Sitting Bull]

This isn’t GoHens where alternate views are not allowed. It sounds to me it’s your Prez and AD are the ones spreadin bull.

[Sitting Bull]

xsmhx



.......DO YA'S THINK.......SPREADIN' BULL.......WILL PUT UH CORK IN IT....NOW.....:D.....BRAWK???

......GNAW.......DIDN'T THINK SO........xsighx......AWK!

......NEED TA RE-READ CARIB'S ARTICLE.....NOT 'BOUT SPORTS ......IT'S SHOWIN' POTENTIAL STUDENTS.....DUH MAGIC UH NEW-ARK!..........BAWK!

......LIBERTY IS DUH.....ALABAMA UH C-USA.......BUT HENS COOD BE 2nd FIDDLE REAL QUIK..........ER.....UMM.......BUK BUK BUK....BRAWK!

I did read it and thought the premise was ludicrous - that joining this confederation of schools was somehow going to raise the interest of potential students in Florida and Texas - as if those states don’t already have dozens of schools to pick from. It’s not like you’re linked with the top schools in either state, not even the top 10. The way you pull in a larger base from out state is through academics, not a softball game or Tuesday night football in empty stadiums.

It was hard to read that rationale and buy into it. It came across as CYA by someone who is trying to justify this mess.

I’m sorry for you guys but maybe it will work out.

[KPSUL]

I couldn't care less about Delaware's move from the CAA to C-USA - not on my radar. However, reading the comments from Delaware officials meant to justify their decisions rings pretty hollow to me, unless they are looking at it like the pretty 8th grader who brings several less attractive girls with her to the dance. I don't see how Delaware is now going to attract more of the type students they want by being in a conference that is comprised of schools inferior academically to the CAA. They will be judged by the company they are keeping and that company does not compare well to the elite private, top HBCU and flagship state schools that make-up much of the CAA.

[bonarae]

I couldn't care less about Delaware's move from the CAA to C-USA - not on my radar. However, reading the comments from Delaware officials meant to justify their decisions rings pretty hollow to me, unless they are looking at it like the pretty 8th grader who brings several less attractive girls with her to the dance. I don't see how Delaware is now going to attract more of the type students they want by being in a conference that is comprised of schools inferior academically to the CAA. They will be judged by the company they are keeping and that company does not compare well to the elite private, top HBCU and flagship state schools that make-up much of the CAA.

Meanwhile, will the fans regret the move as time goes on? xsighx

[caribbeanhen]

I couldn't care less about Delaware's move from the CAA to C-USA - not on my radar. However, reading the comments from Delaware officials meant to justify their decisions rings pretty hollow to me, unless they are looking at it like the pretty 8th grader who brings several less attractive girls with her to the dance. I don't see how Delaware is now going to attract more of the type students they want by being in a conference that is comprised of schools inferior academically to the CAA. They will be judged by the company they are keeping and that company does not compare well to the elite private, top HBCU and flagship state schools that make-up much of the CAA.

sure

[Go...gate]

I couldn't care less about Delaware's move from the CAA to C-USA - not on my radar. However, reading the comments from Delaware officials meant to justify their decisions rings pretty hollow to me, unless they are looking at it like the pretty 8th grader who brings several less attractive girls with her to the dance. I don't see how Delaware is now going to attract more of the type students they want by being in a conference that is comprised of schools inferior academically to the CAA. They will be judged by the company they are keeping and that company does not compare well to the elite private, top HBCU and flagship state schools that make-up much of the CAA.

This.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I couldn't care less about Delaware's move from the CAA to C-USA - not on my radar. However, reading the comments from Delaware officials meant to justify their decisions rings pretty hollow to me, unless they are looking at it like the pretty 8th grader who brings several less attractive girls with her to the dance. I don't see how Delaware is now going to attract more of the type students they want by being in a conference that is comprised of schools inferior academically to the CAA. They will be judged by the company they are keeping and that company does not compare well to the elite private, top HBCU and flagship state schools that make-up much of the CAA.

Meh, with the exception of the Ivy League, I don't think the general student population looks at athletic conference affiliation in determining where to attend university. Delaware will land wherever it lands in the academic profile rankings regardless of football league.

Where they may have issues is in retaining fan interest in football IF they are not regularly competing for bowl games or bringing in big-ticket FBS games to Newark for home dates. It will also be challenging for students, alum and fans to maintain interest in Men's Basketball if the team isn't consistently winning 20+ games, given no more games against local opponents and no longer having their league's conference tournament played within a few hours drive of the state.

C-USA is a stepping stone. If they're successful there, UD probably ends up in either AAC or Sun Belt and the move is a home run. And if they're not successful, then it's UMass 2.0 but at least you're not slumming it as an independent.

[DFW HOYA]

I couldn't care less about Delaware's move from the CAA to C-USA - not on my radar. However, reading the comments from Delaware officials meant to justify their decisions rings pretty hollow to me, unless they are looking at it like the pretty 8th grader who brings several less attractive girls with her to the dance. I don't see how Delaware is now going to attract more of the type students they want by being in a conference that is comprised of schools inferior academically to the CAA. They will be judged by the company they are keeping and that company does not compare well to the elite private, top HBCU and flagship state schools that make-up much of the CAA.

Excepting W&M, I'm not sure any of the CAA full members are that elite, and UD is the only flagship of the bunch.

[Sitting Bull]

Excepting W&M, I'm not sure any of the CAA full members are that elite, and UD is the only flagship of the bunch.

Not sure how everyone defines elite but the CAA has 6 members that rank in the top 100 or close of national universities from latest rankings:
W&M
Northeastern
Elon
Stony Brook
Delaware
Drexel

That’s better than the majority of mid major conferences and certainly well above any of the G5 leagues. I don’t think the CUSA or Sunbelt as examples have any member even close, for what it’s worth.

[DFW HOYA]

It's all about definition, of course. I tend to associate elite with exclusive, and many of these schools are not altogether exclusive:

Elon: 74%
Stony Brook: 49%
Delaware: 73%
Drexel: 79%

Northeastern is an anomaly because they flood the zone with applications: a 5 percent admission rate but they accept a lot early, forcing the regular rates way down. Nothing against NU, but it's not more elite than Amherst (10%), Tufts (10%), BU (10%), or BC (15%).

[WestCoastAggie]

Not sure how everyone defines elite but the CAA has 6 members that rank in the top 100 or close of national universities from latest rankings:
W&M
Northeastern
Elon
Stony Brook
Delaware
Drexel

That’s better than the majority of mid major conferences and certainly well above any of the G5 leagues. I don’t think the CUSA or Sunbelt as examples have any member even close, for what it’s worth.

Not to mention, A&T now meets the current standards for R1 Classification (70+ PhDs conferred, over $5 million in research expenditures, almost $200 million in research revenue in 23/24).

[NY Crusader 2010]

It's all about definition, of course. I tend to associate elite with exclusive, and many of these schools are not altogether exclusive:

Elon: 74%
Stony Brook: 49%
Delaware: 73%
Drexel: 79%

Northeastern is an anomaly because they flood the zone with applications: a 5 percent admission rate but they accept a lot early, forcing the regular rates way down. Nothing against NU, but it's not more elite than Amherst (10%), Tufts (10%), BU (10%), or BC (15%).

I don't study academic rankings at all, nor do I care that much. While they might gerrymander the acceptance rate, Northeastern I'm fairly certain has indeed grown tremendously in the rankings and as far as average scores needed to get in. When I was in college, Northeastern absolutely would've been a safety school for Holy Cross. Today, I believe it's more competitive to get into Northeastern as an undergrad than HC.

One tactic some schools use is to intentionally send mailings out to students who are unlikely to get in. Typically, it's the opposite -- prospective applicants get majority of mail and postcards from schools that have SAT ranges below your score on record (I think it's the junior year PSAT they base this off of -- I may be dating myself). But, when I was a junior in HS the majority of mail I got was from places like McDaniel, Goucher College, Sacred Heart, Rutgers, UConn, St. Joe's (PA) and The College of New Jersey. I wasn't getting solicited via mail from the like of Georgetown, Amherst or Middlebury. I've heard some of the middle-of-the road private schools are sending mail to kids whose SAT ranges fall in a lower profile, to entice them to apply. If the kid doesn't get in, the school still benefits from the application fee and the lower acceptance rate, which factors into all the fugazi rankings that everyone drools over.