Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week 12

[DFW HOYA]

One more week remains.

Lafayette (8-2, 4-1) at Lehigh (2-8, 1-4), the 159th meeting: 12:00 Noon
Georgetown (5-5, 3-2) at Holy Cross (6-4, 4-1), 12:00
Bucknell (3-7, 1-5) at Marist (4-6), 12:00
Fordham (6-4, 2-3) at Colgate (5-5, 3-2), 1:00

[bonarae]

Lafayette
Georgetown - toss-up
Marist
Fordham

[Pard4Life]

If Lehigh, Georgetown, Colgate win next week... Lafayette, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Colgate will all be tied for the Patriot League championship. That would about sum up the PL in the current era.

[Pard4Life]

Let's try to simulate this mess based on my understanding of the rules:

Football Tiebreaker Information
a. If a tie exists, the higher seed will go to the team that won the most head-to-head League contest(s) played against the other team(s) involved in the tie.
Lafayette: 2-1
Holy Cross: 1-2
Georgetown: 1-2
Colgate: 2-1
(So Colgate & Lafayette 'advance' from this scenario??)

b. If a tie still exists, a comparison of League records will be made between the tied institutions starting at the highest seed and continuing through the lowest seed, if necessary.
Colgate & Lafayette - both 2-1 against the first place teams, but Colgate would be 2-0 vs Fordham & Lehigh while Lafayette would be 1-1..
Colgate advances to the playoffs?

c. If a tie still exists, a comparison of records against common out-of-league opponents will be made.

d. If a tie still exists, a committee consisting of the athletics directors of each of the institutions not involved in the tie will make a final decision. The committee should consider various factors including, but not limited to, the following examples. Note: the examples are listed in no particular order:
1. strength of schedule
2. overall record
3. computer rankings
4. performance during second half of season The committee will meet immediately following the conclusion of the final game of the season’s final weekend. A majority vote of the members of the committee will be needed to determine the champion.

[CHIP72]

Good chance I'll attend Lafayette/Lehigh unless D2 East Stroudsburg hosts a first round playoff game (very unlikely) or plays at Kutztown in the first round (unlikely but possible). It looks like there are still a decent number of tickets for L-L 159 available.

[Pards Rule]

Good chance I'll attend Lafayette/Lehigh unless D2 East Stroudsburg hosts a first round playoff game (very unlikely) or plays at Kutztown in the first round (unlikely but possible). It looks like there are still a decent number of tickets for L-L 159 available.

I will be there with the leopard, Chip

[Go...gate]

Fordham-Colgate offers the Red Raiders an opportunity to salvage a winning season after an 0-4 start, including three routs at the hands of Syracuse, Villanova and Holy Cross. Fordham will be very tough, however.

[pardfan]

LC 35 Lehigh 7 That post-Fordham interview showed a determined Mr. C. Looked fit as a fiddle.
Bucknell
Fordham
HC

[ngineer]

Current forecast for Bethlehem is 'iffy' on precipitation..either late Friday or Saturday a.m. Nothing like the 'great equalizer' to raise its ugly head!

Earlier in the year, I would have taken Fordham in a convincing win. But the Red Raiders have certainly stabilized the boat and have very balanced attack. I am going with home field, although I don't know if 'gate gets much advantage on their own tundra. Only a few hundred people showed on Saturday. I think Lehigh had as many in the stands. Still, I was impressed with 'gate QB and RB. I think they control the ball better than the Rams. Raiders 31-27.

After such a gut wrenching loss, not sure how 'nell will approach the Foxes of Marist. Not a 'big' name opponent on the final game, so psyche will be a big player in this out come. Bison's new QB looks to be a weapon, so I am going to assume Cecchini gets his charges geared up and Bison finish on an up note 28-19.

Hoyas could really end the season with a bang by getting its 6th win against their Jesuit rival. 'sader's season is not ending in the fashion they envisioned in August, so the psych element is back in play. Physically, I don't see G'town able to match up with HC and eventually, expect the 'saders to win 38-28.

All eyes will be on Goodman Stadium as #159 has the championship on the line for Laughyette. Nothing can stoke a team more, other than playing for your own championship, than stopping your #1 rival from winning a championship on your field. Back up senior QB Perri is expected to lead the team and it sets the stage for getting payback from last year's loss at Fisher, where Lehigh outplayed the Leotards, but lost in one of the worst Rivalry games in recent memory as neither team seemed to want to win. This year will be much different. With the team from Easton having a major turnaround this year with some excellent skill players and a tough line, many are expecting a blowout as Lehigh has been struggling all year trying to find a streak of consistency to develop confidence. Laughyette's wins have not been blowouts, so if Lehigh can stay within spitting range, a turnover here or there, could spell the difference. Mountain Hawks have some skill people, but many are either freshmen or first year players. Hopefully, the stage lights won't be too bright and new Head Coach Cahill gets a boost for next season. There is an adage that "one learns more from losing, than winning." Lehigh should be well-educated this year and we shall see if they can put that knowledge to good use. One bright area for Lehigh this year has been Special teams...and, of course, both teams always seem to have a few trick plays specially designed for this game. Lehigh shocks the world...24-21! xdrunkyxxdrunkyx

[Pards Rule]

Fordham-Colgate offers the Red Raiders an opportunity to salvage a winning season after an 0-4 start, including three routs at the hands of Syracuse, Villanova and Holy Cross. Fordham will be very tough, however.

Great job Raiders. And congrats once again on the upset of Leopards. Truly great salvage. BTW Im 1-0 watching Pards at Andy Kerr, 2014. I may have to visit Hamilton next year? One thing I want to know before I pass, is what the hell is the story behind Dan Hunt?!

[Southsider]

U R DREAMING............

[Pards Rule]

U R DREAMING............

SSer, oh about the upset?

[gravalico]

Holy Cross

Bucknell

Fordham

LAFAYETTE!!! GO PARDS!

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[Colgate TD]

Great job Raiders. And congrats once again on the upset of Leopards. Truly great salvage. BTW Im 1-0 watching Pards at Andy Kerr, 2014. I may have to visit Hamilton next year? One thing I want to know before I pass, is what the hell is the story behind Dan Hunt?!

He was dismissed for violating school policies.

[Go...gate]

He was dismissed for violating school policies.

I always wondered what those "policies" were. I don't believe our former Athletic Director helped things.

[Ivytalk]

Lafayette
Holy Cross
Bucknell
Colgate

[Pards Rule]

Holy Cross

Bucknell

Fordham

LAFAYETTE!!! GO PARDS!

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Grav, will Fabish be retianed at Columbia?

[Pards Rule]

I always wondered what those "policies" were. I don't believe our former Athletic Director helped things.

Exactly. I bumped into a lady wearing Colgate shirt at Wawa here in Long Beach Island NJ and found out she had a son on team. This was summer after the Hunt debacle. She said it was so secret team didnt know!

[gravalico]

Grav, will Fabish be retianed at Columbia?I have no idea. Not too connected to other programs at all.

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[CHIP72]

Current forecast for Bethlehem is 'iffy' on precipitation..either late Friday or Saturday a.m. Nothing like the 'great equalizer' to raise its ugly head!

Right now, the predicted wind conditions (NW 10-15 MPH) and dropping temperatures will probably have a bigger impact on the game and the fans than the possible but not probable rain showers will.

[The Boogie Down]

Fordham-Colgate offers the Red Raiders an opportunity to salvage a winning season after an 0-4 start, including three routs at the hands of Syracuse, Villanova and Holy Cross. Fordham will be very tough, however.


Fordham has the talent to be very tough. Fordham has the coaching to be very easy.

[Pards Rule]

Right now, the predicted wind conditions (NW 10-15 MPH) and dropping temperatures will probably have a bigger impact on the game and the fans than the possible but not probable rain showers will.

Chip whats forecast for temp drop?

[IslandPard]

Lafayette - 48-17 xanim_chaix

Is there another game this week?

And I will not be attending another L-L until it's back at the nicer stadium.

[gravalico]

Lafayette - 48-17 xanim_chaix

Is there another game this week?

And I will not be attending another L-L until it's back at the nicer stadium.I'm with you on the stadium thing. I refuse to go slumming.

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[IslandPard]

I'm with you on the stadium thing. I refuse to go slumming.

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We're not only ones. Social media says tickets are still available.

[CHIP72]

Chip whats forecast for temp drop?
The high temperature on Saturday is projected to be in the upper 40s F with 10-20 MPH NW winds. (By contrast, the high temperature on Friday is expected to be in the low 60s F with the Saturday morning low temperature in the mid-40s F, only slightly lower than the projected high temperature later in the day.)

[CHIP72]

We're not only ones. Social media says tickets are still available.
Unfortunately the L-L game has not sold out at either Lehigh or Lafayette in recent years.

[Pards Rule]

Unfortunately the L-L game has not sold out at either Lehigh or Lafayette in recent years.

Sad but true...Im old enough to remember when they brought in temp stands in the four corners of end zone. When did that stop, anyone?

[gravalico]

Sad but true...Im old enough to remember when they brought in temp stands in the four corners of end zone. When did that stop, anyone?I suspect right around the time we started sucking. Hopefully we can back to a level of at least filling the stadium.

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[NY Crusader 2010]

Fordham-Colgate offers the Red Raiders an opportunity to salvage a winning season after an 0-4 start, including three routs at the hands of Syracuse, Villanova and Holy Cross. Fordham will be very tough, however.

You guys still have a mathematical shot at the auto-bid, I think. If Colgate beats Fordham, Lehigh beats Lafayette and Georgetown beats HC, I think you guys go to the playoffs.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Lafayette 31 Lehigh 17
Holy Cross 28 Georgetown 20
Bucknell 38 Marist 10
Colgate 34 Fordham 21

[Pards Rule]

Any spread yet on #159??

[The Cats]

Lafayette (8-2, 4-1) at Lehigh (2-8, 1-4)
Georgetown (5-5, 3-2) at Holy Cross (6-4, 4-1), 12:00
Bucknell (3-7, 1-5) at Marist (4-6), 12:00
Fordham (6-4, 2-3) at Colgate (5-5, 3-2), 1:00

[NY Crusader 2010]

Using Sagarin rating set, Lafayette would be 10-point favorites on the road in Bethlehem. His same set of ratings would have Holy Cross -23 against Georgetown in Worcester.

[DFW HOYA]

Using Sagarin rating set, Lafayette would be 10-point favorites on the road in Bethlehem. His same set of ratings would have Holy Cross -23 against Georgetown in Worcester.

For what it's worth, Massey had Georgetown opening up with a narrow win over Marist and then lose nine of its final 10, most by two or more touchdowns. Expectations have been exceeded.

[NY Crusader 2010]

For what it's worth, Massey had Georgetown opening up with a narrow win over Marist and then lose nine of its final 10, most by two or more touchdowns. Expectations have been exceeded.

Massey is trash IMO. But generally you're correct on Georgetown. If the actual posted spread were HC -23, betting on the Hoyas ATS should be easy money.

Sagarin has you guys basically even with Lehigh when it comes to ranking, which we all know is inaccurate. But ratings sets take into account margin of victory, so a result like 30-0 against Columbia probably hurts. As does losing to Stonehill. The way I see it, Georgetown had two bad games and otherwise is more or less on par with Colgate or Fordham.

[Colgate TD]

Lafayette 35, Lehigh 24
Holy Cross 27, G'town 18
Bucknell 21, Marist 10
Colgate 22, Fordham 17

[ngineer]

The high temperature on Saturday is projected to be in the upper 40s F with 10-20 MPH NW winds. (By contrast, the high temperature on Friday is expected to be in the low 60s F with the Saturday morning low temperature in the mid-40s F, only slightly lower than the projected high temperature later in the day.)

Looks like the wind gusts are projected to be around noon/early afternoon. Dissipating as the afternoon goes on, but temps dropping below 40F toward end of game..unless we go Double OT like 1987xsmiley_wix

[ngineer]

Unfortunately the L-L game has not sold out at either Lehigh or Lafayette in recent years.

I think there were barely 10,000 last year at Fissure. What was stunning was the empty seats on the Laughyette side between the 40 yard lines, plus I got to sit on the visitor side in the sun for a change. Years past, the LU alums had to sit on the Laughyette side in the shadows at Fissure.

[ngineer]

Lafayette - 48-17 xanim_chaix

Is there another game this week?

And I will not be attending another L-L until it's back at the nicer stadium.

The only thing nicer is the video board. Goodman has one of the best playing surfaces on the east coast..what the game should be played on-grass. Much more food selection/options, large restrooms that are heated and sufficient room, plenty of parking with plenty of room for tailgating. No question, the upgrades at Fissure have been a great improvement from the pit that preceded it, but not close.xbeerchugx

[gravalico]

The only thing nicer is the video board. Goodman has one of the best playing surfaces on the east coast..what the game should be played on-grass. Much more food selection/options, large restrooms that are heated and sufficient room, plenty of parking with plenty of room for tailgating. No question, the upgrades at Fissure have been a great improvement from the pit that preceded it, but not close.xbeerchugxThe Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

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[Pards Rule]

Looks like the wind gusts are projected to be around noon/early afternoon. Dissipating as the afternoon goes on, but temps dropping below 40F toward end of game..unless we go Double OT like 1987xsmiley_wix

Mi****?! Nginner you knoooow the only OT games were 1995 and 2009! I was at that 1987 game to the bitter (and it was) end. Do you recall any colder in your PLUS 9 years on me

[NY Crusader 2010]

Didn't college overtime start in 1996?

I know it wasn't 1995 because I remember watching an Army-Rice game that ended in a tie.

[pardfan]

The Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk That's all terrific and really matters. IMO though, having president of College, athletic director, and athletic coaching staff(s) on the same page for the first time in at least sixty years...really, REALLY, matters. Bergethon, Rothkopf, Weiss, Kollevoll, BRUCE,,,

Pards Rule That picture thing will have to wait.

[IslandPard]

The only thing nicer is the video board. Goodman has one of the best playing surfaces on the east coast..what the game should be played on-grass. Much more food selection/options, large restrooms that are heated and sufficient room, plenty of parking with plenty of room for tailgating. No question, the upgrades at Fissure have been a great improvement from the pit that preceded it, but not close.xbeerchugx

xflaggedxxflaggedxYou're kidding, right? Tailgating in the mud amidst 50 mph winds then sitting in stands 50 yards from the field are not my idea of "nice". But you guys do wear brown though.

[gravalico]

xflaggedxxflaggedxYou're kidding, right? Tailgating in the mud amidst 50 mph winds then sitting in stands 50 yards from the field are not my idea of "nice". But you guys do wear brown though.Seriously. I really don't think it's up for discussion anymore. Any objective person (not predetermined to argue the merits of turf vs. grass) would have to give the enthusiastic nod to Fisher Stadium. At least any fully sighted person. Goodman was the crown jewel 30 years ago when it opened. But even then...and going forward...its a bus ride away from the campus. The quality of the practice and training facilities has already been discussed. Lafayette wins. Asthetically...no comparison. Let's compare. I mean c'mon...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/21ce49443de99c10ec2dcc47551ba6b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/9b23602d80c145c9086f1daa6ad06c21.jpg

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[DFW HOYA]

The Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

Which PL schools have indoor football facilities?

Lafayette: Yes (Bourger)
Holy Cross: Yes (Luth)
Lehigh: Soon
Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham: Not yet
Georgetown: Not happening

[gravalico]

Oh and goodman has no lights. I repeat...goodman has no lights. Check mate.

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[Pards Rule]

Didn't college overtime start in 1996?

I know it wasn't 1995 because I remember watching an Army-Rice game that ended in a tie.

2010 that may have been D1? I know the 95 game was DOT...

[NY Crusader 2010]

2010 that may have been D1? I know the 95 game was DOT...

Either that or individual conferences adopted it in 1995 and NCAA adopted overall for the 1995 bowl season and 1996 regular season for Division I-A. I know the final ties in the record books occurred in 1995. Not counting suspended games that didn't resume, and things like that. Because of the NCAA playoff structure, overtime did exist to break ties in the postseason tournaments in I-AA, DII and DIII as early as the 1970's. I-A Bowl games up until 1995 would end in a tie. There was even a rule instituted by the early 1990's that would have allowed for the SEC, WAC or Big XII conference championship games to go to overtime, however that never happened until at least 1996 when the rule was already in place for all. The first DI-A overtime game took place in the 1995 Las Vegas Bowl. Would have to look it up and see if there were any ties across I-AA in 1995, because evidently the Patriot League had overtime instituted by that season.

See link below on the last tie in NCAA history, which took place a week after the Lehigh-Lafayette 2OT game in November of 1995.

The story on how Wisconsin Badgers and Illinois Fighting Illini played to college football's last tie - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18008384/the-story-how-wisconsin-badgers-illinois-fighting-illini-played-college-football-last-tie)

[NY Crusader 2010]

Seriously. I really don't think it's up for discussion anymore. Any objective person (not predetermined to argue the merits of turf vs. grass) would have to give the enthusiastic nod to Fisher Stadium. At least any fully sighted person. Goodman was the crown jewel 30 years ago when it opened. But even then...and going forward...its a bus ride away from the campus. The quality of the practice and training facilities has already been discussed. Lafayette wins. Asthetically...no comparison. Let's compare. I mean c'mon...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/21ce49443de99c10ec2dcc47551ba6b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/9b23602d80c145c9086f1daa6ad06c21.jpg

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The nod definitely goes to Fisher IMO if we're rating the stadium. But I definitely enjoy both venues and game day experiences. Doesn't work out every year but I always at least try to go to whichever Lehigh Valley opponent HC plays on the road. Very underrated day trip from metro NYC. The natural grass field and the concessions are wins for Goodman while the facility and location are wins for Fisher. Tailgating probably a little better in Bethlehem but there is at least one local bar in Easton that's very walkable as well. Both trips are both well worth making.

[ngineer]

The Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

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The question was s-t-a-d-i-u-m. No "state of the fart turf" is better than a well maintained grass field. Goodman is on campus...we just have a bigger one. And the deck holds how many cars?? Lehigh's was updated just two years ago, indeed added a second one on the east side so suites were constructed on west. Better record, yes. We'll see who's better on Saturday. Better coach? subjective at this point; depends on the metrics. GO LEHIGH!

- - - Updated - - -


The Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

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The question was s-t-a-d-i-u-m. No "state of the fart turf" is better than a well maintained grass field. Goodman is on campus...we just have a bigger one. And the deck holds how many cars?? Lehigh's was updated just two years ago, indeed added a second one on the east side so suites were constructed on west. Better record, yes. We'll see who's better on Saturday. Better coach? subjective at this point; depends on the metrics. GO LEHIGH!

- - - Updated - - -


The Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

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The question was s-t-a-d-i-u-m. No "state of the fart turf" is better than a well maintained grass field. Goodman is on campus...we just have a bigger one. And the deck holds how many cars?? Lehigh's was updated just two years ago, indeed added a second one on the east side so suites were constructed on west. Better record, yes. We'll see who's better on Saturday. Better coach? subjective at this point; depends on the metrics. GO LEHIGH!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Seriously. I really don't think it's up for discussion anymore. Any objective person (not predetermined to argue the merits of turf vs. grass) would have to give the enthusiastic nod to Fisher Stadium. At least any fully sighted person. Goodman was the crown jewel 30 years ago when it opened. But even then...and going forward...its a bus ride away from the campus. The quality of the practice and training facilities has already been discussed. Lafayette wins. Asthetically...no comparison. Let's compare. I mean c'mon...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/21ce49443de99c10ec2dcc47551ba6b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/9b23602d80c145c9086f1daa6ad06c21.jpg

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You can always frame things differently with photography...

https://www2.lehigh.edu/sites/www2/files/2021-12/Hulvat-2230.jpg

https://assets.simpleviewinc.com/simpleview/image/upload/c_fill,h_900,q_75,w_1200/v1/clients/discoverlehighvalley/lehigh_0c847eb9-3781-4966-8f23-118261c7216d.jpg


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww2.lehigh.edu%2Fnews%2Flehigh-partners-in-solar-array-project-to-power-goodman-campus&psig=AOvVaw0Kx-L4TPQckQa7pB2_-nLx&ust=1700250576220000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCOCXzo6lyYIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

[ngineer]

The Bourger Varsity House is among the nicest in fcs. Football only training facility. State of the art turf. On campus location. New parking deck. VIP/Family center. Updated press box. Better team. Better coach. Go Pards!

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The question was s-t-a-d-i-u-m. No "state of the fart turf" is better than a well maintained grass field. Goodman is on campus...we just have a bigger one. And the deck holds how many cars?? Lehigh's was updated just two years ago, indeed added a second one on the east side so suites were constructed on west. Better record, yes. We'll see who's better on Saturday. Better coach? subjective at this point; depends on the metrics. GO LEHIGH!

[gravalico]

The question was s-t-a-d-i-u-m. No "state of the fart turf" is better than a well maintained grass field. Goodman is on campus...we just have a bigger one. And the deck holds how many cars?? Lehigh's was updated just two years ago, indeed added a second one on the east side so suites were constructed on west. Better record, yes. We'll see who's better on Saturday. Better coach? subjective at this point; depends on the metrics. GO LEHIGH!Here's a picture of our facility at night, compared to Goodman... https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/bc4bb75e4a4288b7b03c5f0009d67d23.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/88ce808ab77abf5d9a7a5bf2c366d534.jpg

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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The nod definitely goes to Fisher IMO if we're rating the stadium. But I definitely enjoy both venues and game day experiences. Doesn't work out every year but I always at least try to go to whichever Lehigh Valley opponent HC plays on the road. Very underrated day trip from metro NYC. The natural grass field and the concessions are wins for Goodman while the facility and location are wins for Fisher. Tailgating probably a little better in Bethlehem but there is at least one local bar in Easton that's very walkable as well. Both trips are both well worth making.

Fisher always felt like a smaller version of J. Birney Crum Stadium in Allentown with the lopsided home and away sides (now I think Crum only has the "home side"), being built into a hill, on street parking, etc. It's nice and clean but it still has a "small", oversized high school stadium feel to it. I wish there were pics of Fisher before Kirby was built. At one time I believe it had about 25k seats?

[gravalico]

And Goodman always had a "Field of Dreams", out in the middle of nowhere, "build it and they will come" kind of vibe...except nobody came.

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[IslandPard]

I get it...you need to have a drone or do a fly over in order to appreciate Goodman as opposed to being in the stands of Fisher. Cool.

Shall we post pics of inside Bourger??? xsmiley_wix

[Pards Rule]

And Goodman always had a "Field of Dreams", out in the middle of nowhere, "build it and they will come" kind of vibe...except nobody came.

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Except the houses. Damn I recall going there first year it was open in 1989 - the game of a couple snow squalls. Anyways hardly any development out there at that time. Started noting I think the closest development beginning at 1993 game IIRC. I sat in stands in 1989 and looked at I-78 and realized I would never see it clear of cars again in person. 78 was opened I believe the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, definitely in 1989. Now developments have added quite a few developments to the Lower Saucon Valley in past 30 years.

[gravalico]

I get it...you need to have a drone or do a fly over in order to appreciate Goodman as opposed to being in the stands of Fisher. Cool.

Shall we post pics of inside Bourger??? xsmiley_wixNah, let them take a video tour and then they can tell us all about how, at Goodman, it's super convenient because their trainers can get actual dirt from their authentic grass field to rub on their players injuries...

https://vimeo.com/138573261



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[gravalico]

Behold the splendor! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/93852d46832abc9fe908a931a83176c1.jpg

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[Franks Tanks]

Fisher always felt like a smaller version of J. Birney Crum Stadium in Allentown with the lopsided home and away sides (now I think Crum only has the "home side"), being built into a hill, on street parking, etc. It's nice and clean but it still has a "small", oversized high school stadium feel to it. I wish there were pics of Fisher before Kirby was built. At one time I believe it had about 25k seats?

How many high school stadiums have 13k seats. Goodman is showing its age, and the stands are still 40 yards from the sideline for no reason at all.

[Franks Tanks]

https://ldr.lafayette.edu/concern/images/sn009z44h

Check here for a halfway decent shot of the old away stands at Fisher. I understand they were shaped like a sideways L. The stands in this picture did not extend all the way at that height, but went down to about 1/2. I think the highest capacity was 23k. I suppose they never finished the full construction of the old away stands as they realized adding a few k more seats weren’t needed.

[ngineer]

Behold the splendor! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231116/93852d46832abc9fe908a931a83176c1.jpg

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I thought it was a mausoleum...Why the deflection? the issue was stadium. When are they getting sanitary plumbing on the north side of the stadium?

[ngineer]

How many high school stadiums have 13k seats. Goodman is showing its age, and the stands are still 40 yards from the sideline for no reason at all.

Aren't we all? Fissure will, too. Stands are about 50 feet from the sideline...I agree that, that is the only criticism I have of Goodman. We were spoiled by Taylor being right on top of the players' bench about 20 feet from sideline. but there as a reason for wider dimensions, the stadium can also accommodate Olympic soccer field requirements. Over the years, the US Soccer program has held soccer 'preliminaries' and training at Goodman. In addition, I recall some engineering requirements based upon the slope of the natural bowl. It's where we (freshmen) played our games, and also where the Spring Game was held.

Also, I mistyped the year of the overtime..was thinking of the discussion occurring about the "freeze out" game of 1987. The "Game in the Gloaming" was '95. Too many concussions over the years I guess.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How many high school stadiums have 13k seats. Goodman is showing its age, and the stands are still 40 yards from the sideline for no reason at all.


The Lehigh Valley has always been lucky to have J. Birney Crum and BASD who were among the largest high school stadiums in the country at their peak. JBC held close to 30k at one point iirc while BASD had about 20k seats when there were bleachers in the end zones.

The reason the stands are removed at the 50 is the structure follows the natural contour of the "bowl" which then extends into the south end zone. Wallace Wade Stadium at Duke was built in a very similar manner. Wallace Wade is basically Goodman had Lehigh's digs been horseshoed. Which I always wonder if the school considered?

https://www.beckgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/EH_DukeU-WallaceWade_Ext_09-1600x533.jpg

Pre renovation...
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BK3BW0/duke-university-wallace-wade-stadium-home-to-duke-football-and-site-BK3BW0.jpg

[ngineer]

https://ldr.lafayette.edu/concern/images/sn009z44h

Check here for a halfway decent shot of the old away stands at Fisher. I understand they were shaped like a sideways L. The stands in this picture did not extend all the way at that height, but went down to about 1/2. I think the highest capacity was 23k. I suppose they never finished the full construction of the old away stands as they realized adding a few k more seats weren’t needed.

I clearly remember the old stands as I sat in them! The "tall" part of the "L" was at the western end. Back then both schools had baseball diamonds in their stadiums due to obvious lack of room on both campuses. Lehigh's Taylor had a big screen extending above the right field fence to make it more difficult to hit homers. The left field foul line went for over 400 feet! Lafayette's right field was even shorter and it was addressed by painting a red line about 2/3 the way up the stands. One had to clear the line for a homer. Hitting the line or below was a ground rule double.

My uncle, who played football for Delaware, also played baseball for the Blue Hens (teammate of Dallas Green). He told me he loved going to both Taylor and Fisher for baseball because he was a lefty and was a big tackle who could hit a baseball a long way. 6'2" 240 lbs in the mid-1950's was big. I was recruited at Lafayette by Harry Gamble and remember the tour..was track around the stadium as well. Great memories.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think the old Rutgers Stadium which was still used until the early 1990s, also helped serve as a template for Goodman.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Skv9BG8OAHI6o80pDPhD_LdfZVI=/0x0:931x641/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:931x641):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6930837/Stadium%20w%20Hale%20Center.jpg

[Franks Tanks]

I clearly remember the old stands as I sat in them! The "tall" part of the "L" was at the western end. Back then both schools had baseball diamonds in their stadiums due to obvious lack of room on both campuses. Lehigh's Taylor had a big screen extending above the right field fence to make it more difficult to hit homers. The left field foul line went for over 400 feet! Lafayette's right field was even shorter and it was addressed by painting a red line about 2/3 the way up the stands. One had to clear the line for a homer. Hitting the line or below was a ground rule double.

My uncle, who played football for Delaware, also played baseball for the Blue Hens (teammate of Dallas Green). He told me he loved going to both Taylor and Fisher for baseball because he was a lefty and was a big tackle who could hit a baseball a long way. 6'2" 240 lbs in the mid-1950's was big. I was recruited at Lafayette by Harry Gamble and remember the tour..was track around the stadium as well. Great memories.

Good stuff, I’ve seen partial pictures of the baseball set-up a Fisher, but not the full layout. The Lafayette digital archive is quite extensive, but titles and the search function are not very specific. One of these days I’ll have to sort through that archive more closely.

[Franks Tanks]

I think the old Rutgers Stadium which was still used until the early 1990s, also helped serve as a template for Goodman.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Skv9BG8OAHI6o80pDPhD_LdfZVI=/0x0:931x641/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:931x641):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6930837/Stadium%20w%20Hale%20Center.jpg

I was in Dallas about 5 years ago with some time to kill before my flight, and decided to check out SMU’s campus. The campus was sort of underwhelming given its reputation as school for very rich kids (the surrounding neighborhood was clearly quite wealthy though), especially compared with some of the historic campuses on the east coast. Ford stadium on campus is very nice, but not big at all, especially the exterior view. It’s partially built into the ground (with a horseshoe) and my first thought when seeing the stadium was “it looks like Goodman”.

[DFW HOYA]

I was in Dallas about 5 years ago with some time to kill before my flight, and decided to check out SMU’s campus. The campus was sort of underwhelming given its reputation as school for very rich kids (the surrounding neighborhood was clearly quite wealthy though), especially compared with some of the historic campuses on the east coast. Ford stadium on campus is very nice, but not big at all, especially the exterior view. It’s partially built into the ground (with a horseshoe) and my first thought when seeing the stadium was “it looks like Goodman”.

Ford Stadium is larger by capacity and more enclosed than Goodman; and, of course, not a mountain in sight:

https://www.shawsportsturf.com/ShawSportsTurf/media/Original-Project-Photos/resized/Southern-Methodist-University.jpg

[Pards Rule]

https://ldr.lafayette.edu/concern/images/sn009z44h

Check here for a halfway decent shot of the old away stands at Fisher. I understand they were shaped like a sideways L. The stands in this picture did not extend all the way at that height, but went down to about 1/2. I think the highest capacity was 23k. I suppose they never finished the full construction of the old away stands as they realized adding a few k more seats weren’t needed.

Wow amazing pic Tanks. Is that a coaches box on top? Never seen where coaches boxes and/or press boxes would be on both stands??!!

[Pards Rule]

The Lehigh Valley has always been lucky to have J. Birney Crum and BASD who were among the largest high school stadiums in the country at their peak. JBC held close to 30k at one point iirc while BASD had about 20k seats when there were bleachers in the end zones.

The reason the stands are removed at the 50 is the structure follows the natural contour of the "bowl" which then extends into the south end zone. Wallace Wade Stadium at Duke was built in a very similar manner. Wallace Wade is basically Goodman had Lehigh's digs been horseshoed. Which I always wonder if the school considered?

https://www.beckgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/EH_DukeU-WallaceWade_Ext_09-1600x533.jpg

Pre renovation...
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BK3BW0/duke-university-wallace-wade-stadium-home-to-duke-football-and-site-BK3BW0.jpg
Hey that stadium looks familiar! Yeah when I was there in early Sept noted how it was ensconced in a bowl. I do love bowl stadiums.

[gravalico]

I thought it was a mausoleum...Why the deflection? the issue was stadium. When are they getting sanitary plumbing on the north side of the stadium?If you're suggesting that is anything other than a gorgeous building that any Lehigh football player wouldn't give their left nut for, you're damaging your own credibility. As for the stadium question, I'm not sure what your point is. I'm speaking of the football facilities on the whole. What is your definition of stadium? Does the field count? Because we got you beat? The stands themselves? We win. The surrounding buildings? Check for Lafayette. The overall layout and location. Pards win in a landslide. So what's left? The internal tunnels and associated rest rooms? Fine, I will concede the point to Lehigh. Congratulations, you have nicer crappers.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[Pards Rule]

I think the old Rutgers Stadium which was still used until the early 1990s, also helped serve as a template for Goodman.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Skv9BG8OAHI6o80pDPhD_LdfZVI=/0x0:931x641/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:931x641):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6930837/Stadium%20w%20Hale%20Center.jpg
Love how they put New Jersey in one end zone...Yeah fans, Rutgers is in NJ

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Love how they put New Jersey in one end zone...Yeah fans, Rutgers is in NJ

They use to have it on their helmets! This is Rutgers I grew up with! Marco Battaglia was a beast of a TE.

https://advancelocal-adapter-image-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/image.nj.com/home/njo-media/width2048/img/rutgers_football/photo/22702250-standard.jpg

[DFW HOYA]

They use to have it on their helmets! This is Rutgers I grew up with! Marco Battaglia was a beast of a TE.


There was a failed effort to rename it the University of New Jersey.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

There was a failed effort to rename it the University of New Jersey.

When I was growing up, late 80s through mid 90s for conversation sake, it was still very much referenced as "The State University of New Jersey". Did this push to re-connect with the institution's roots relate to the school's move to the Big East? After all, it's the only flagship school not to incorporate the state into its current "branded" name; for better or worse.

[Bill]

When I was growing up, late 80s through mid 90s for conversation sake, it was still very much referenced as "The State University of New Jersey". Did this push to re-connect with the institution's roots relate to the school's move to the Big East? After all, it's the only flagship school not to incorporate the state into its current "branded" name; for better or worse.

I think some of it had to do with Rutgers' identity crisis then...and now. Don't forget the whole name change when "Trenton State College" became "The College of New Jersey"...and I always thought Rutgers and even Princeton were going to have some issues with it.

[Pard4Life]

Fisher Field was never finished. It was intended to evoke Archbold Stadium at Syracuse, with a horseshoe style (open on the current Boruger site). The south stands were supposed to be as high as the north stands - which is what you see in the old Fisher photos. One section was finished, and another half-started. You can also see where work was halted on the north end - there is a little stub 'half stand' on the hillside. They rushed to get it open for the 1926 season and ran out funds. The intent was to complete it, but then the Depression hit. Football was never the same. Pards had designs on the big-time. We were among the top 5 most successful teams in the 1920s so it made sense pursue the stadium.

[Go...gate]

Love how they put New Jersey in one end zone...Yeah fans, Rutgers is in NJ

I loved that old ballpark. Not nearly the same experience in the new place.

[Go...gate]

Lafayette 21, Lehigh 18

Georgetown 31, Holy Cross 30

Bucknell 27, Marist 13

Fordham 33, Colgate 28

Bonus Pick: Pennsylvania 24, Princeton 19

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross 42 Georgetown 24
Bucknell 35 Marist 16
Fordham 38 Colgate 27
Lafayette 31 Lehigh 17

[Leopard Loyalist]

Holy Cross 34 Georgetown 24
Bucknell 35 Marist 14
Fordham 28 Colgate 24
Lafayette 34 Lehigh 21

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 14 Fordham 0 End 3Q
Holy Cross 31 Georgetown 10 Final
Bucknell 38 Marist 21 Final

[Pards Rule]

Hey got to credit COLGATE - great turnaround folks. You should be most proud of your comeback season and yes you upset us cleanly in that too.

[Go...gate]

Hey got to credit COLGATE - great turnaround folks. You should be most proud of your comeback season and yes you upset us cleanly in that too.

Thanks!

Congratulations on your richly deserved championship!

[DFW HOYA]

Thanks!
Congratulations on your richly deserved championship!

Colgate is the FCS version of Michigan State basketball. They'll lose early but they're going to be nearly unstoppable down the stretch.

[gravalico]

Hey got to credit COLGATE - great turnaround folks. You should be most proud of your comeback season and yes you upset us cleanly in that too.I second this. Hell of a gutty finish to the season. Colgate should be in the mix going forward...damn it.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Just saw Sluka, Dobbs and I believe Coker entered the Portal. I think there's a good chance Chesney moves on. Syracuse? I thought that was possible last year had Babers been let go then.

[Franks Tanks]

Just saw Sluka, Dobbs and I believe Coker entered the Portal. I think there's a good chance Chesney moves on. Syracuse? I thought that was possible last year had Babers been let go then.

I think it makes sense for ‘Cuse. They need a super positive, high energy recruiter to build a culture.

Syracuse has really become one of the worst jobs in the P5. Mediocre facilities, no local talent, horrible weather and small budgets.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think it makes sense for ‘Cuse. They need a super positive, high energy recruiter to build a culture.

Syracuse has really become one of the worst jobs in the P5. Mediocre facilities, no local talent, horrible weather and small budgets.

I'm definitely biased as I have been a life-long supporter of 'Cuse athletics (went to several games under Babers including the 2017 win over Clemson). With that said, prior to 2003 when Boeheim finally won the national title and football was clearly eroding under Pasqualoni (he would be fired after the 2004 season) Syracuse was just as much a "football school" as a "basketball school". Since that time, Jimmy really asserted power and it became all about hoops. Hell, even the lax program started to fall off.

Syracuse still has tremendous support. The renovated Dome remains one of the cooler, more unique atmospheres to watch a football or hoops game. The region is full of non-alum fans who need something to divert their senses from the steel gray days of fall and the endless snow of winter and early spring. I think Chesney would have more success than Babers because of his background and infectious personality. The guys just knows how to win! Basically, a younger, healthier Jerry Kill.

Plus, Syracuse is very much an academic minded private institution. It's not a huge, over-populated public school. Not that K-State is big... ;)

[NY Crusader 2010]

I second this. Hell of a gutty finish to the season. Colgate should be in the mix going forward...damn it.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

Next year in the Patriot League should be a lot of fun. Colgate should be back to contender status.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm definitely biased as I have been a life-long supporter of 'Cuse athletics (went to several games under Babers including the 2017 win over Clemson). With that said, prior to 2003 when Boeheim finally won the national title and football was clearly eroding under Pasqualoni (he would be fired after the 2004 season) Syracuse was just as much a "football school" as a "basketball school". Since that time, Jimmy really asserted power and it became all about hoops. Hell, even the lax program started to fall off.

Syracuse still has tremendous support. The renovated Dome remains one of the cooler, more unique atmospheres to watch a football or hoops game. The region is full of non-alum fans who need something to divert their senses from the steel gray days of fall and the endless snow of winter and early spring. I think Chesney would have more success than Babers because of his background and infectious personality. The guys just knows how to win! Basically, a younger, healthier Jerry Kill.

Plus, Syracuse is very much an academic minded private institution. It's not a huge, over-populated public school. Not that K-State is big... ;)

I have no issue with Syracuse, and used to like watching them in the 90’s. They just seems to have no juice, and haven’t for some time. They used to recruit Jersey and Eastern PA very well, and we’re often the choice for guys who got passed over by PSU and Notre Dame.

[pardfan]

Looking forward to LC-Colgate game already. Colgate 25-1-2 (1930-1987 incl.). Eight straight shutouts at one point and an average score of 34-7. LC is 15-48-4 overall. Colgate deserves a thrashing.

[Wolffan]

I think it makes sense for ‘Cuse. They need a super positive, high energy recruiter to build a culture.

Syracuse has really become one of the worst jobs in the P5. Mediocre facilities, no local talent, horrible weather and small budgets.

I think it makes sense for Chesney in terms of timing as Holy Cross' undefeated regular season goes further into the rearview mirror - this year they had 4 losses, and next year (with the departure of Sluka, Coker, Dobbs...) could be even more challenging. So this off season might be his last chance in a while to move up. Money would be a BIG step up for Chesney.

Syracuse will perpetually have NLI and recruiting issues and the ACC is no picnic. I think it is a possible hire (meaning pure specualtion).

[gravalico]

Good timing for Chesney to depart as Holy Cross' undefeated regular season goes further into the rearview mirror - this year they had 4 losses, and next year (with the departure of Sluka, Coker, Dobbs...) could be even more challenging. So now might be his last chance in a while to move up. Money would be a BIG step up for Chesney.

Syracuse will perpetually have NLI and recruiting issues and the ACC is no picnic. I think it is a possible hire (meaning pure specualtion).Honesty this possibility has me feeling even better about the Troxell situation. I honestly believe he has no desire to climb the ladder beyond HC for the Lafayette. He's on the record saying as much. It's his dream job. Home town hero returned home. Could stupid money lure him away? Sure... I suppose. That being said, he was quite content to wait it out at F&M for 12 years for this job. I can't see him wanting to leave. He's also 52. That has to figure in.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

. I can't see him wanting to leave. He's also 52. That has to figure in.


Ages of PL coaches in 2023:

Cecchini (Bucknell): 52
Troxell (Lafayette): 52
Sgarlata (Georgetown): 51
Cahill (Lehigh); 48
Chesney (Holy Cross): 46
Conlin (Fordham): 44
Dakosty (Colgate): 40

[Go...gate]

I'm definitely biased as I have been a life-long supporter of 'Cuse athletics (went to several games under Babers including the 2017 win over Clemson). With that said, prior to 2003 when Boeheim finally won the national title and football was clearly eroding under Pasqualoni (he would be fired after the 2004 season) Syracuse was just as much a "football school" as a "basketball school". Since that time, Jimmy really asserted power and it became all about hoops. Hell, even the lax program started to fall off.

Syracuse still has tremendous support. The renovated Dome remains one of the cooler, more unique atmospheres to watch a football or hoops game. The region is full of non-alum fans who need something to divert their senses from the steel gray days of fall and the endless snow of winter and early spring. I think Chesney would have more success than Babers because of his background and infectious personality. The guys just knows how to win! Basically, a younger, healthier Jerry Kill.

Plus, Syracuse is very much an academic minded private institution. It's not a huge, over-populated public school. Not that K-State is big... ;)

I often disagree with you, but not here. SU knows it is a strong academic and athletic school and is unashamedly proud of it.

In the 40s and 50s, when the Ivy League was being brainstormed, Syracuse was one of the schools under consideration. Indeed, just as there was a "Big Three" comprised of Harvard, Princeton and Yale, there was an "Upstate New York Big Three" consisting of Colgate, Cornell and Syracuse. Not to mention that all three schools routinely played Columbia and Brown. I can remember seeing a couple of games in Archbold Stadium with my father in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Syracuse will be back before long.

[Franks Tanks]

I often disagree with you, but not here. SU knows it is a strong academic and athletic school and is unashamedly proud of it.

In the 40s and 50s, when the Ivy League was being brainstormed, Syracuse was one of the schools under consideration. Indeed, just as there was a "Big Three" comprised of Harvard, Princeton and Yale, there was an "Upstate New York Big Three" consisting of Colgate, Cornell and Syracuse. Not to mention that all three schools routinely played Columbia and Brown. I can remember seeing a couple of games in Archbold Stadium with my father in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Syracuse will be back before long.

Whether it was Babers or the program, they can’t recruit.

https://247sports.com/college/syracuse/Season/2023-Football/Commits/

Most of their kids have zero P5 offers other than Syracuse. Not sure of your definition of “back” but they will have a very hard time even being a perennial top 25 program moving forward I think.

[Pards Rule]

I'm definitely biased as I have been a life-long supporter of 'Cuse athletics (went to several games under Babers including the 2017 win over Clemson). With that said, prior to 2003 when Boeheim finally won the national title and football was clearly eroding under Pasqualoni (he would be fired after the 2004 season) Syracuse was just as much a "football school" as a "basketball school". Since that time, Jimmy really asserted power and it became all about hoops. Hell, even the lax program started to fall off.

Syracuse still has tremendous support. The renovated Dome remains one of the cooler, more unique atmospheres to watch a football or hoops game. The region is full of non-alum fans who need something to divert their senses from the steel gray days of fall and the endless snow of winter and early spring. I think Chesney would have more success than Babers because of his background and infectious personality. The guys just knows how to win! Basically, a younger, healthier Jerry Kill.

Plus, Syracuse is very much an academic minded private institution. It's not a huge, over-populated public school. Not that K-State is big... ;)

Good friend here on LBI played for Cuse with Tom Coughlin! Hes of course very good friends with his former teammate and a Giants fan.

[Go...gate]

Whether it was Babers or the program, they can’t recruit.

https://247sports.com/college/syracuse/Season/2023-Football/Commits/

Most of their kids have zero P5 offers other than Syracuse. Not sure of your definition of “back” but they will have a very hard time even being a perennial top 25 program moving forward I think.

If that is your only and rather narrow criteria, you are unrealistic. You could say the same thing about Notre Dame and others. You want SU to be Alabama? It never was and never will be.

And yes, Babers was a poor recruiter.

[Franks Tanks]

If that is your only and rather narrow criteria, you are unrealistic. You could say the same thing about Notre Dame and others. You want SU to be Alabama? It never was and never will be.

And yes, Babers was a poor recruiter.

What is success for SU? The have 4 winning seasons in the 19 years since Pasquolini got canned.

[Southsider]

If that is your only and rather narrow criteria, you are unrealistic. You could say the same thing about Notre Dame and others. You want SU to be Alabama? It never was and never will be.

And yes, Babers was a poor recruiter.

You mean like LU wanting to be YALE/HARVARD xcoffeex

[Sader87]

If Sluka avoids touching the side-line late in the 4th against BC, Chesney may very well be coaching in Chestnut Hill next year.

I still have a feeling that that is his next move.....hard to turn down P5 coaching $$$, but just don't think SU is a good fit for Chesney. We shall see.

[Franks Tanks]

If Sluka avoids touching the side-line late in the 4th against BC, Chesney may very well be coaching in Chestnut Hill next year.

I still have a feeling that that is his next move.....hard to turn down P5 coaching $$$, but just don't think SU is a good fit for Chesney. We shall see.

He’s not jumping to a better job than Syracuse immediately. He’s also 46, so if he has dreams of coaching at the “big time” he shouldn’t delay.

Football Scoop think Bob and Dan Mullen are the top candidates.

https://footballscoop.com/news/syracuse-coaching-search-gains-focus-bob-chesney-dan-mullen