2024 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

[Gil Dobie]

Here are the Top 20 players on the Ballott, top 14 from last year and top 6 new additions. You can pick 10 or less

[smilo]

Todd Helton, Billy Wagner, and Adrian Beltre because they are highly deserving and could clog up the ballot if they don't get in (though might consider dropping my annual vote for Helton).

Gary Sheffield has the stats. Can't drop him in case of a miracle 10th year push - even though he won't get there.

Pettitte, Abreu, Rollins, Hunter, Utley and Mauer. Hunter is probably a little short but worth discussing. Rollins is very close call - surely in the Philadelphia Hall of Fame. I don't have many doubts on the other three being deserving even though they look like longshots. Mauer and Abreu probably get there eventually.

Had to drop K-Rod and Buehrle. I wasn't sold on them anyway, but they are worth a discussion down the road.
Also had to drop Beltran because he's not at risk or a likely inductee. Obviously would be in line ahead of Hunter.

[dbackjon]

Not a very impressive list.


And the most deserving one, A-Rod will struggle to get 40% of the ballots.

ManRam is probably the 2nd best player on the list, and he too won't come close

[bonarae]

Do you think those steroid era players will only get enshrined once the Committees elect them in? Or are they going to stay Hall-less like Pete Rose? xdontknowx

[dbackjon]

Do you think those steroid era players will only get enshrined once the Committees elect them in? Or are they going to stay Hall-less like Pete Rose? xdontknowx

Eventually they will get in.

They may be dead, but they will be in.

[OhioHen]

Not a very impressive list.


And the most deserving one, A-Rod will struggle to get 40% of the ballots.

ManRam is probably the 2nd best player on the list, and he too won't come close
Selected 2. Most of this list belongs in the "Hall of Pretty Good" category.

[Gil Dobie]

Jim Leyland elected by the Era Veterans Committee.

[Gil Dobie]

Beltre, Mauer, Helton and Wagner trending above required 75% with 95 confirmed votes and 7 unverified votes.

Followed by Sheffield, Beltran and Andruw Jones.

[OhioHen]

Beltre, Mauer, Helton and Wagner trending above required 75% with 95 confirmed votes and 7 unverified votes.

Welcome to the "Hall of better than average for a decade or longer" gentlemen.

[Bisonator]

Welcome to the "Hall of better than average for a decade or longer" gentlemen.
No kidding what a joke the HOF has become....

[Gil Dobie]

Welcome to the "Hall of better than average for a decade or longer" gentlemen.

All 4 of these players were great. One has 3000 hits, one with 3 batting titles as a catcher and highest average for games as a catcher, one with 2500 hits 300 hr and a .316 average, the other has 2.31 ERA and over 400 saves.

[Gil Dobie]

With 32% of the vote revealed Sheffield is sitting at the 75% needed. See how the other 2/3's of the vote goes.

[BisonFan02]

No kidding what a joke the HOF has become....

One way to fix it would be to enshrine the best players from the recent era....like Bonds, McGuire, Clemens.....

[Bisonator]

One way to fix it would be to enshrine the best players from the recent era....like Bonds, McGuire, Clemens.....
How about just burn it down instead?

[BisonFan02]

How about just burn it down instead?

I'm just somewhat explaining why the pickings are slim....

[Gil Dobie]

One way to fix it would be to enshrine the best players from the recent era....like Bonds, McGuire, Clemens.....

Cheaters are being punished, and the punishment is having to wait to get in the Hall. They will get in someday. At least they didn't lose their Gold Medal like Ben Johnson or the Russian doping teams.

Ken Griffey Jr was hurt by the steroid users. Great career over-shadowed by players with faster game to game recovery for the next game, putting up fantasy numbers. Griffey was in the 1998 HR chase until the end of August. McGwire and Sosa were fresh every day and continued the charge.

[caribbeanhen]

Cheaters are being punished, and the punishment is having to wait to get in the Hall. They will get in someday. At least they didn't lose their Gold Medal like Ben Johnson or the Russian doping teams.

Ken Griffey Jr was hurt by the steroid users. Great career over-shadowed by players with faster game to game recovery for the next game, putting up fantasy numbers. Griffey was in the 1998 HR chase until the end of August. McGwire and Sosa were fresh every day and continued the charge.

saw some Dominican pitchers grooving pitches for Sosa in 98

[OhioHen]

I'm just somewhat explaining why the pickings are slim....
The pickings are slim because only the cheaters are good enough?

[Gil Dobie]

The pickings are slim because only the cheaters are good enough?

The cheaters stats overshadow the clean players stats. The trending vote has players that are better than at least 20 current HOFers. Beltre 3000 hits, Mauer 3 batting titles and highest all time average as a catcher, Helton .316 average, Sheffield 500 Home runs, Wagner 400 saves. If they are elected, the all are deserving.

Sheffield has been associated with BALCO.

[Gil Dobie]

saw some Dominican pitchers grooving pitches for Sosa in 98

Question for you. Andruw Jones was a great centerfielder. I would have Torri Hunter up there close, but behind Jones. Why doesn't Hunter get any attention from voters?

[caribbeanhen]

Question for you. Andruw Jones was a great centerfielder. I would have Torri Hunter up there close, but behind Jones. Why doesn't Hunter get any attention from voters?

Because Andrew Jones was simply the best defensive centerfielder of all time, Torri Hunter was just another good one

[Gil Dobie]

Because Andrew Jones was simply the best defensive centerfielder of all time, Torri Hunter was just another good one

Did he get hurt or something? His last 5 years his defensive WAR was below zero, from age 31-35?

[MR. CHICKEN]

33270


......EVERAH SEE DYKSTRA.....CRASH INTA DUH FENCE.....TOP UH NINTH....WHIFF...PHILLY AHEAD BAH 7 RUNS?......ALWAYS WONDERED....HOW POSITION PLAYERS....FEEL......WHEN RELIEVERS COME IN...BLOW LEAD AN' LOSE GAME......AFTERAH DEY RISKED LIFE & LIMB....TA GET AN OUT........AWK!

[caribbeanhen]

Did he get hurt or something? His last 5 years his defensive WAR was below zero, from age 31-35?

kind of, he got fat

[ngineer]

Because Andrew Jones was simply the best defensive centerfielder of all time, Torri Hunter was just another good one

Dunno, Hen..I certainly think Jones was one of the greatest centerfielders to play, but no one takes centerfield ahead of Willie Mays in my book. The speed, the arm, the athleticism. He made so many hard plays look routine. He was the only reason my Dad would take me to Connie Mack Stadium in the 1950's and '60's because the Phils were so bad.

[caribbeanhen]

Dunno, Hen..I certainly think Jones was one of the greatest centerfielders to play, but no one takes centerfield ahead of Willie Mays in my book. The speed, the arm, the athleticism. He made so many hard plays look routine. He was the only reason my Dad would take me to Connie Mack Stadium in the 1950's and '60's because the Phils were so bad.

Mays is an icon… The say hey kid
1954 World Series with the famous back to home plate catch at the Polo Grounds, every young kid should see that picture and know his story. I made sure they did if they liked baseball. Mays was near the end of his career the few times I saw him play on TV and everyone considered him the best CF off all time.

If you had watched all the Braves games on TBS like I did back in the Jones era, I think you would be convinced about Andruw

it was 1997 when he started to play regularly for the Braves in centerfield, and he was already making plays I had never seen a CF make. That same year, I commented one day at work that Jones was a better CF than Willie Mays and got laughed at… haha

He had a spectacular 10 year run in Atlanta and played centerfield like baseball had never seen before. I’m convinced that he was better than Mays on defense. Particularly the aggressive way he came in on the ball. He flamed out early, and that’s the reason he’s not in the HOF … yet.

[caribbeanhen]

Did he get hurt or something? His last 5 years his defensive WAR was below zero, from age 31-35?

I’m not a big WAR guy but here you go, best of all time and it’s really not close.

The case for Andruw Jones

He was a generational talent, the modern-day Willie Mays with the combination of power and defense.
His 10 Gold Gloves and 434 home runs made him one of only four players to have won 10 Gold Gloves with 400 career home runs. The others are Mays, Mike Schmidt and Ken Griffey Jr. − all first-ballot Hall of Famers.


He's also one of six outfielders with 10 or more Gold Gloves. The others are Roberto Clemente and Mays (12 each), and Ken Griffey Jr., Al Kaline and Ichiro Suzuki (10 each).
Gold Gloves are nice. So are defensive analytics. The center fielder's career 24.4 defensive WAR, per Baseball Reference (https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml), is the most of any outfielder in MLB history, by 5.6.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/hallfame/2024/01/17/andruw-jones-baseball-hall-of-fame-case/72247340007/#

[Gil Dobie]

Jones is trending around 70%. Might get a late push this year or make it next year. Torri Hunter is trending off the ballot.

[caribbeanhen]

Jones is trending around 70%. Might get a late push this year or make it next year. Torri Hunter is trending off the ballot.

well if Scott Rolen is in, Andruw Jones should be just on his defense

Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson without the great glove are not HOF

[clenz]

Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson without the great glove are not HOF
Yeah, if you take away what made elite/HOF players elite/HOF players they aren't elite/HOF players.

What a ****ing revelation that is.

Take away Maddux's control and he isn't a HOF pitcher
Take away Ortiz's home runs (and how he gets away with the PED allegations no one else does is something else) and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Jeter's rings and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Mariano's cutter and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Thome's home runs and he isn't a HOF player
Take Torre or LaRussa's wins away and they aren't a HOF manager

That's a dumb ****ing argument to make about anyone

[caribbeanhen]

Yeah, if you take away what made elite/HOF players elite/HOF players they aren't elite/HOF players.

What a ****ing revelation that is.

Take away Maddux's control and he isn't a HOF pitcher
Take away Ortiz's home runs (and how he gets away with the PED allegations no one else does is something else) and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Jeter's rings and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Mariano's cutter and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Thome's home runs and he isn't a HOF player
Take Torre or LaRussa's wins away and they aren't a HOF manager

That's a dumb ****ing argument to make about anyone

I’m glad you support Andruw Jones immediate selection into the HOF

speaking of dumb, The point sailed right over your head

[clenz]

I have no issue with Jones in the HOF, at all.

[OhioHen]

Yeah, if you take away what made elite/HOF players elite/HOF players they aren't elite/HOF players.

What a ****ing revelation that is.

Take away Maddux's control and he isn't a HOF pitcher
Take away Ortiz's home runs (and how he gets away with the PED allegations no one else does is something else) and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Jeter's rings and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Mariano's cutter and he isn't a HOF player
Take away Thome's home runs and he isn't a HOF player
Take Torre or LaRussa's wins away and they aren't a HOF manager

That's a dumb ****ing argument to make about anyone
The better argument in support of Andruw Jones would have been that "Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson are HOFers because of their fielding," so why shouldn't that be enough for Jones?

[caribbeanhen]

The better argument in support of Andruw Jones would have been that "Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson are HOFers because of their fielding," so why shouldn't that be enough for Jones?

I had originally replied to ngineer with my opinion on why I think Jones was the best defensive CF of all time and the argument drifted over to HOF talk, ( the thread title:)
I always was of the opinion he flamed out to early but now, I fully support Jones being in HOF

[Gil Dobie]

I had originally replied to ngineer with my opinion on why I think Jones was the best defensive CF of all time and the argument drifted over to HOF talk, ( the thread title:)
I always was of the opinion he flamed out to early but now, I fully support Jones being in HOF

Jones gained a couple points yesterday on the trending list Not Mr Tibbs

[caribbeanhen]

Jones gained a couple points yesterday on the trending list Not Mr Tibbs


my instincts tell me you’ve had a change of heart on him Gil

meaning you agree he should be in … yes or no?

[ngineer]

No question Jones should be in the HOF imo both on defense and offense. He was a complete player.

[Gil Dobie]

my instincts tell me you’ve had a change of heart on him Gil

meaning you agree he should be in … yes or no?

Still not agreeing he was the best, as WAR is only one tool looking at a players greatness. His defensive WAR is phenomenal, Ozzie Smithesque. He belongs in the HOF.

[caribbeanhen]

Still not agreeing he was the best, as WAR is only one tool looking at a players greatness. His defensive WAR is phenomenal, Ozzie Smithesque. He belongs in the HOF.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N4S3jCCck1w

It’s ok, you’ll come around on him being better on D than Mays

routine play for Andruw

It seemed like he made a spectacular play every night and I don’t remember anyone playing OF aggressively as him. It makes you think part of the reason he flamed out early were all the diving catches.. they add up over a career. I don’t remember outfielders diving as much back in the 70’s. That show really took off with sports center in my opinion. I think Byron Buxton was a spectacular defensive player and his aggressiveness has taken a big toll on his body.

[POD Knows]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N4S3jCCck1w

It’s ok, you’ll come around on him being better on D than Mays

routine play for Andruw

It seemed like he made a spectacular play every night and I don’t remember anyone playing OF aggressively as him. It makes you think part of the reason he flamed out early were all the diving catches.. they add up over a career. I don’t remember outfielders diving as much back in the 70’s. That show really took off with sports center in my opinion. I think Byron Buxton was a spectacular defensive player and his aggressiveness has taken a big toll on his body.
He made that play look routine. Hilarious comment from the announcers that it was good he caught it caught or they would have scored it an error.

[caribbeanhen]

He made that play look routine. Hilarious comment from the announcers that it was good he caught it caught or they would have scored it an error.

haha I don’t bother with sound these days but that comment almost sounds tongue n cheek… pretty ridiculous if they were serious

[bonarae]

Beltre, Mauer, Helton and Leyland are your Cooperstown Class of 2024.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gil Dobie]

The pickings are slim because only the cheaters are good enough?

The cheaters played during Ken Griffey's Jr's era. Does anyone remember Griffey going back-to-back 56 home runs. Not many, because his greatness was overshadowed by PED users. Same with Thome, great player overshadowed by PED users. That is my biggest issue with PED users, made the clean stars look rather pedestrian. Beltre, Mauer and Helton all look average compared to the fantasy numbers the cheaters put up. The PED users will get in, the vets committee will deal with them.

[caribbeanhen]

The cheaters played during Ken Griffey's Jr's era. Does anyone remember Griffey going back-to-back 56 home runs. Not many, because his greatness was overshadowed by PED users. Same with Thome, great player overshadowed by PED users. That is my biggest issue with PED users, made the clean stars look rather pedestrian. Beltre, Mauer and Helton all look average compared to the fantasy numbers the cheaters put up. The PED users will get in, the vets committee will deal with them.

I remember Griffey very well

saw him play A ball in Everett, Washington in 1987, he even had to get his own snacks at the concession stand… remember his Daddy too

[Gil Dobie]

I remember Griffey very well

saw him play A ball in Everett, Washington in 1987, he even had to get his own snacks at the concession stand… remember his Daddy too

You know more about baseball than most. IMO, Griffey Jr was the better than anyone on the PED list, but the PED users stats overshadow his.

[caribbeanhen]

You know more about baseball than most. IMO, Griffey Jr was the better than anyone on the PED list, but the PED users stats overshadow his.

agree on Griffey

[Bisonator]

The cheaters played during Ken Griffey's Jr's era. Does anyone remember Griffey going back-to-back 56 home runs. Not many, because his greatness was overshadowed by PED users. Same with Thome, great player overshadowed by PED users. That is my biggest issue with PED users, made the clean stars look rather pedestrian. Beltre, Mauer and Helton all look average compared to the fantasy numbers the cheaters put up. The PED users will get in, the vets committee will deal with them.
Agree with all except the PED users getting in someday, I hope they never do! Lifetime ban for Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose so why should those cheats be allowed in too? **** them!

[Bisonoline]

You know more about baseball than most. IMO, Griffey Jr was the better than anyone on the PED list, but the PED users stats overshadow his.

Jr was great. His old man was pretty darn good also.

[OhioHen]

Jr was great. His old man was pretty darn good also.
Certainly one of the best father/son duos in Major League history. Okay baseball guys, discuss a top five father/son(s) list.