AGS Poll Results 2023 Wk9

[AGSPoll]

10/30/2023




Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1225
49


2
Furman Paladins
1142



3
Idaho Vandals
1085



4
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
1055



5
Montana State Bobcats
1013



6
Montana Grizzlies
987



7
Sac State Hornets
952



8
South Dakota Coyotes
820



9
Southern Illinois Salukis
760



10
Incarnate Word Cardinals
754



11
North Dakota State Bison
694



12
Chattanooga Mocs
585



13
North Carolina Central Eagles
581



14
Villanova Wildcats
480



15T
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
451



15T
Western Carolina Catamounts
451



17
Youngstown State Penguins
432



18
Albany Great Danes
381



19
Northern Iowa Panthers
352



20
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
345



21
Lafayette Leopards
342



22
Austin Peay Governors
304



23
Mercer Bears
248



24
Florida A&M Rattlers
215



25
Harvard Crimson
75
















ORV:




26
Holy Cross Crusaders
63



27
Central Arkansas Bears
38



28
Richmond Spiders
37



29
William & Mary Tribe
25



30
Tarleton Texans
11



31
Eastern Illinois Panthers
8



32
Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
6



33
Elon Phoenix
3



34
Eastern Kentucky Colonels
2



35
Tennessee State Tigers
2



36
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
1



37





38





39





40


















Most Significant Win:
Idaho Vandals






Most Significant Loss:
Montana State Bobcats

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: South Dakota Coyotes
9: Incarnate Word Cardinals
10: North Carolina Central Eagles
11: Youngstown State Penguins
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: Southern Illinois Salukis
14: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
15: Albany Great Danes
16: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: North Dakota State Bison
19: Mercer Bears
20: Lafayette Leopards
21: Western Carolina Catamounts
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Richmond Spiders
25: Harvard Crimson

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Western Carolina Catamounts
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

[clenz]

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/images/ZmxfbG9zc3k=/egicdgxkawdm2zu3ulx6/fans-react-to-icarly-revival-embracing-interesting-meme.jpeg.jpeg

[crusader11]

My take.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Idaho Vandals
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: North Dakota State Bison
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
16: Lafayette Leopards
17: Incarnate Word Cardinals
18: Albany Great Danes
19: Mercer Bears
20: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Austin Peay Governors
23: Harvard Crimson
24: Holy Cross Crusaders
25: Florida A&M Rattlers

[VandalBasher]

That was an epic game. Hats off to the kicker. He was put in a bad position to begin with.

The Vandals are now showing they will be in the Top 25 for a very long time. Go Vandals!

[atthewbon]

Here is my ballot. I found 2-6 difficult this week, I can see an argument for almost any order. I don't understand how Chattanooga is so much higher than Austin Peay.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Furman Paladins
5: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Sac State Hornets
8: South Dakota Coyotes
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: Incarnate Word Cardinals
11: North Carolina Central Eagles
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: North Dakota State Bison
15: Mercer Bears
16: Western Carolina Catamounts
17: Austin Peay Governors
18: Chattanooga Mocs
19: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
20: Florida A&M Rattlers
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
23: Lafayette Leopards
24: Villanova Wildcats
25: Harvard Crimson

[Professor Chaos]

This week's poll article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-5/

Pretty strange to see 4 teams from one conference (Big Sky) in the top 7 and 7 teams from another conference (MVFC) in the top 19 this late in the season. Speaking of that I still think UNI is under-ranked at #19 even though they got a nice bump this week. Looking at the point totals we could've just called it the top 24 this week as there's a big drop off between FAMU and Harvard.

[Chalupa Batman]

For your viewing pleasure:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Idaho Vandals
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: Sac State Hornets
9: North Dakota State Bison
10: South Dakota Coyotes
11: Albany Great Danes
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: Lafayette Leopards
15: Mercer Bears
16: North Carolina Central Eagles
17: Western Carolina Catamounts
18: Northern Iowa Panthers
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: Austin Peay Governors
22: Harvard Crimson
23: Florida A&M Rattlers
24: Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
25: Tarleton Texans

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Montana State Bobcats

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This week's poll article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-5/

Pretty strange to see 4 teams from one conference (Big Sky) in the top 7 and 7 teams from another conference (MVFC) in the top 19 this late in the season. Speaking of that I still think UNI is under-ranked at #19 even though they got a nice bump this week. Looking at the point totals we could've just called it the top 24 this week as there's a big drop off between FAMU and Harvard.

Nailed every single thought I had while working on it behind the scenes.xlolx

[Christiank22]

This week's poll article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-5/

Pretty strange to see 4 teams from one conference (Big Sky) in the top 7 and 7 teams from another conference (MVFC) in the top 19 this late in the season. Speaking of that I still think UNI is under-ranked at #19 even though they got a nice bump this week. Looking at the point totals we could've just called it the top 24 this week as there's a big drop off between FAMU and Harvard.

It’s interesting because I honestly feel like this is the weakest as a whole the MVFC has been in a long time. I feel all of FCS has taken a bit of a step back with the transfer portal + NIL

[Professor Chaos]

My shot at it this week:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Furman Paladins
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Delaware Fightin Blue Hens
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Incarnate Word Cardinals
9: North Carolina Central Eagles
10: Chattanooga Mocs
11: South Dakota Coyotes
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: Albany Great Danes
15: Southern Illinois Salukis
16: North Dakota State Bison
17: Mercer Bears
18: Western Carolina Catamounts
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Lafayette Leopards
21: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
22: Harvard Crimson
23: Holy Cross Crusaders
24: Austin Peay Governors
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

[clenz]

This week's poll article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-5/

Pretty strange to see 4 teams from one conference (Big Sky) in the top 7 and 7 teams from another conference (MVFC) in the top 19 this late in the season. Speaking of that I still think UNI is under-ranked at #19 even though they got a nice bump this week. Looking at the point totals we could've just called it the top 24 this week as there's a big drop off between FAMU and Harvard.UNI struggled with Indiana State. Can't rank a team that struggles with ISUb highly....unless you have Dakota in the name apparently.

We had a long discussion last week, and you know I respect your takes, but everything I said would happen absolutely happened. It was the best/worst case scenario to prove my points from last week when I talked about lazy voting, slot voting, applying double standards.

UNI got slammed for getting devastated by SDSU. USD? Holds on a seed to line for a similar loss. That's not even taking into account USD played them at home and UNI was on the road for Hobo Day.

UNI got slammed for struggling with ISUb on the road. We talked about the USD game last week and how it was seen as gutting out a road win in the Valley compared to UNI "struggling". Now UND has ISUB at home and needs a last second FG to force OT to get the win and it's also apparently being spun, just like the USD win, as gutting out a victory at home against a Valley team while still ignoring that just the week before they were shut out 27-0 by UNI.

You told me I was wrong, and things would change and would work itself out and whatever else. It's comical how predictable it is.

My question this week to track exactly the same thing: Does UNI get a massive bump for thumping WIU? They shouldn't, but it's clearly propping up programs like NDSU and UND. Hell, SIU got a 3 spot bump to the top 10 after beating WIU who was on a 20 game losing streak. Does UNI get the same bump or is it seen as "They just beat a bad team. Big deal". Should UNI "struggle" and not blow WIU out by 4+ scores does it give voters reason to drop them down even further behind UND and YSU? I'm going to bet yes.

[Professor Chaos]

It’s interesting because I honestly feel like this is the weakest as a whole the MVFC has been in a long time. I feel all of FCS has taken a bit of a step back with the transfer portal + NIL
Well part of it has to do with the CAA being very average (or at least perceived as very average) and the Big Sky being very top heavy this year. I've looks like only 2-4 of the 15 teams in the CAA will get to 8+ wins and only 4 of the 12 teams Big Sky teams will get to 7+ wins. Somebody has to fill that vacuum and it looks like it'll primarily be the MVFC this year with some help from the SOCON.

[atthewbon]

We struggled with Indiana State. Can't rank a team that struggles with ISU highly....unless you have Dakota in the name apparently.

We had a long discussion last week, and you know I respect your takes, but everything I said would happen absolutely happened. It was the best/worst case scenario to prove my points from last week when I talked about lazy voting, slot voting, applying double standards.

UNI got slammed for getting devastated by SDSU. USD? Holds on a seed to line for a similar loss. That's not even taking into account USD played them at home and UNI was on the road for Hobo Day.

UNI got slammed for struggling with ISUb on the road. We talked about the USD game last week and how it was seen as gutting out a road win in the Valley compared to UNI "struggling". Now UND has ISUB at home and needs a last second FG to force OT to get the win and it's also apparently being spun, just like the USD win, as gutting out a victory at home against a Valley team while still ignoring that just the week before they were shut out 27-0 by UNI.

You told me I was wrong, and things would change and would work itself out and whatever else. It's comical how predictable it is.

My question this week to track exactly the same thing: Does UNI get a massive bump for thumping WIU? They shouldn't, but it's clearly propping up programs like NDSU and UND. Does UNI get the same bump or is it seen as "They just beat a bad team. Big deal". Should UNI "struggle" and not blow WIU out by 4+ scores does it give voters reason to drop them down even further behind UND and YSU? I'm going to bet yes.

After the last two weeks I don't see how you can have UND over UNI. USD does only have 1 fcs loss and it seemed equivalent to how UNI lost to SDSU so I think they are still ahead. For reference I had USD 8, UNI 12, and UND 19

[clenz]

After the last two weeks I don't see how you can have UND over UNI. USD does only have 1 fcs loss and it seemed equivalent to how UNI lost to SDSU so I think they are still ahead. For reference I had USD 8, UNI 12, and UND 19
I'm not arging UNI ahead of USD. USD "catches strays" in this discussion because of how I see the narrative spun. I have nothing against USD this year. They are having a fantastic season.

UNI has one extra loss in the FCS than USD does, and it's not a great loss by any stretch. No question or argument. I guess I would ask is beating a PFL team worth that much of an extra bump over a loss to WSU in week 2?

But again, as far as USD is concerned, I couldn't give a whole lot less care than I currently do beyond pointing out narrative and double standards.

[Professor Chaos]

UNI struggled with Indiana State. Can't rank a team that struggles with ISUb highly....unless you have Dakota in the name apparently.

We had a long discussion last week, and you know I respect your takes, but everything I said would happen absolutely happened. It was the best/worst case scenario to prove my points from last week when I talked about lazy voting, slot voting, applying double standards.

UNI got slammed for getting devastated by SDSU. USD? Holds on a seed to line for a similar loss. That's not even taking into account USD played them at home and UNI was on the road for Hobo Day.

UNI got slammed for struggling with ISUb on the road. We talked about the USD game last week and how it was seen as gutting out a road win in the Valley compared to UNI "struggling". Now UND has ISUB at home and needs a last second FG to force OT to get the win and it's also apparently being spun, just like the USD win, as gutting out a victory at home against a Valley team while still ignoring that just the week before they were shut out 27-0 by UNI.

You told me I was wrong, and things would change and would work itself out and whatever else. It's comical how predictable it is.

My question this week to track exactly the same thing: Does UNI get a massive bump for thumping WIU? They shouldn't, but it's clearly propping up programs like NDSU and UND. Does UNI get the same bump or is it seen as "They just beat a bad team. Big deal". Should UNI "struggle" and not blow WIU out by 4+ scores does it give voters reason to drop them down even further behind UND and YSU? I'm going to bet yes.
I never disagreed that the pollsters would get/are getting it wrong - I contended that the selection committee would see the strength of UNI's resume in relation to other teams with similar records.

You're also exaggerating UNI's hits they're taking. They actually moved up from #32 to #27 in the AGS Poll after beating Indiana St. Then they dropped from #27 to #34 after losing to SDSU which only represented a 79 point drop (much less than the 200 point drop USD took this week).

I agree that NDSU is being over-ranked on reputation right now - but they aren't going to be able to hide behind bad opponents these last 3 weeks so they'll prove it or they won't. I also agree that UND is too high - it's pretty clear they're getting more credit for their win over NDSU than UNI is getting for their win over UND. It's wrong and it's worth pointing out on threads like this so voters can re-evaluate if they need to.

[clenz]

I never disagreed that the pollsters would get/are getting it wrong - I contended that the selection committee would see the strength of UNI's resume in relation to other teams with similar records.

You're also exaggerating UNI's hits they're taking. They actually moved up from #32 to #27 in the AGS Poll after beating Indiana St. Then they dropped from #27 to #34 after losing to SDSU which only represented a 79 point drop (much less than the 200 point drop USD took this week).

I agree that NDSU is being over-ranked on reputation right now - but they aren't going to be able to hide behind bad opponents these last 3 weeks so they'll prove it or they won't. I also agree that UND is too high - it's pretty clear they're getting more credit for their win over NDSU than UNI is getting for their win over UND. It's wrong and it's worth pointing out on threads like this so voters can re-evaluate if they need to.
How many extra points did SIU get for beating WIU?

UNI went from 52 to 83 points for beating Indiana State.
UNI didn't have the points to lose like USD did. What % of points were lost? A 79 point drop when you have 82 to lose is far greater punishment than losing 200 if you have about 1100 the week before

"Only dropped 79 points" is a creative way to spin "literally every single voter dropped them completely outside of like 2.

[Professor Chaos]

How many extra points did SIU get for beating WIU?

UNI didn't have the points to lose like USD did. What % of points were lost? A 79 point drop if you only have 150 points to lose is far greater punishment than losing 200 if you have about 1100 the week before
It doesn't happen in a vacuum - SIU's jump this week had more to do with UTM and WCU being upset who were right in front of them last week.

Going by percent of points lost is just a silly argument. One spot up or down in each pollster's ballot means the same whether it's moving a team from #1 to #2 or from #25 to out.

[atthewbon]

I'm not arging UNI ahead of USD. USD "catches strays" in this discussion because of how I see the narrative spun. I have nothing against USD this year. They are having a fantastic season.

UNI has one extra loss in the FCS than USD does, and it's not a great loss by any stretch. No question or argument. I guess I would ask is beating a PFL team worth that much of an extra bump over a loss to WSU in week 2?

But again, as far as USD is concerned, I couldn't give a whole lot less care than I currently do beyond pointing out narrative and double standards.

I think we mostly agree here. I would say I don't see it as an extra bump for USD beating a PFL team but a knock on UNI for losing to what is now a 3-5 Weber St team. It's tough for UNI because they could have scheduled a PFL team and probably won, but they didn't... and it's just too hard to ignore what is looking like a worse and worse loss.

[KPSUL]

I don't think Villanova being ahead of Albany by 4 positions makes any sense. They both are 4-1 in the conference with no discernable difference in strength of conference schedule to this point. Albany has one more loss due to playing two FBS opponents - both competitive games. They also played arguably 2 tougher FCS OOC opponents than Nova. Now here's the decisive hole card - Albany beat Villanova 31 - 10.

[Professor Chaos]

I think we mostly agree here. I would say I don't see it as an extra bump for USD beating a PFL team but a knock on UNI for losing to what is now a 3-5 Weber St team. It's tough for UNI because they could have scheduled a PFL team and probably won, but they didn't... and it's just too hard to ignore what is looking like a worse and worse loss.
I'm not saying UNI's loss to Weber St should be discounted completely but voters don't seem to be having much issue with forgetting about Montana's loss to 3-5 Northern Arizona or Chattanooga's loss to 3-6 North Alabama.

[clenz]

It doesn't happen in a vacuum - SIU's jump this week had more to do with UTM and WCU being upset who were right in front of them last week.

Going by percent of points lost is just a silly argument. One spot up or down in each pollster's ballot means the same whether it's moving a team from #1 to #2 or from #25 to out.
But as I pointed out in an edit that was happening as you replied so you didn't see it

It wasn't just "same number of poitns" and it absoutely matters.

You say "UNI went from 34 to 27 after beating ISUB. They got 31 extra points for that win. When you're in that part of the poll "jumping a bunch of teams" is quite easy with just even 4 or 5 extra points.

Then "only lost 79 points". UNI only had 83 points. So losing 79 is absolutely a catastrophic loss of points, especially compared to the USD loss of 200. It means that all but 2ish voters dropped them completely. There is absolutely reason to look at % of points lost in relation to someone else with the exact same result to the exact same team. UNI was absolutely disproportionately impacted by that loss compared to USD - and slot voting is 1000% the reason why. "USD was high we can't actually punish them"

[F'N Hawks]

UNI is BIG MAD xlolx

[clenz]

UNI is BIG MAD xlolx
Oh look - the team that got shut the **** out by UNI is trying to talk.

Go back to crying about your equipment staff packing the wrong shoes or how you can't win games unti you properly fund the program even though you have the third highest budget in the Valley and spend 2 million more than UNI.

[F'N Hawks]

Oh look - the team that got shut the **** out by UNI is trying to talk.

Go back to crying about your equipment staff packing the wrong shoes.

only one person on this site crying. BIG CRYING.

[clenz]

It could be crying - or it could be pointing out voters have gotten lazy.

You weren't involved in the disucssion between Professor and I last week, but I spent most of that discussion talking about how I could take this same energy towards a lot of the rankings but I don't know those programs/schedules well enough to do it. It's a symptom I see for some many schools in the rankings here, with STATS, with the coaches, etc.

I've said many times I don't care if/where you want to rank UNI. I don't give a **** about the number next to the name. My issue, and again it applies across the board, if you are going to use a specific logic/criterion to rank UNI (or any team) where you do and you think ignore, go against, or spin that criteria to justify ranking another team higher, or lower, you deserve to have that called hypocrisy called out.

Again, I'm willing to take the same battle up for other teams - and I have in the past. I just happen to only really be following UNI/the Valley this year as opposed to national view as I have in past years because my weekends are taken up by my kids' soccer and football games.

[caribbeanhen]

I don't think Villanova being ahead of Albany by 4 positions makes any sense. They both are 4-1 in the conference with no discernable difference in strength of conference schedule to this point. Albany has one more loss due to playing two FBS opponents - both competitive games. They also played arguably 2 tougher FCS OOC opponents than Nova. Now here's the decisive hole card - Albany beat Villanova 31 - 10.

Good post, was wondering when you were going to get to the final score

[F'N Hawks]

Week 9 rankings do not matter whatsoever. End of story. In two weeks it will all be different and the teams battling for 10-17 are all at-larges anyway. The committee will then screw over those they don't like (UND) and give home games to teams they do like (UM). Rinse, repeat.

[Houndawg]

Week 9 rankings do not matter whatsoever. End of story. In two weeks it will all be different and the teams battling for 10-17 are all at-larges anyway. The committee will then screw over those they don't like (UND) and give home games to teams they do like (UM). Rinse, repeat.

xbawlingx

[caribbeanhen]

My shot at it this week:

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Idaho Vandals
3: Furman Paladins
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Delaware Fightin Blue Hens
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Incarnate Word Cardinals
9: North Carolina Central Eagles
10: Chattanooga Mocs
11: South Dakota Coyotes
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: Albany Great Danes
15: Southern Illinois Salukis
16: North Dakota State Bison
17: Mercer Bears
18: Western Carolina Catamounts
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Lafayette Leopards
21: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
22: Harvard Crimson
23: Holy Cross Crusaders
24: Austin Peay Governors
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

Professor
Why are you so low on Southern Illinois ?

[atthewbon]

I'm not saying UNI's loss to Weber St should be discounted completely but voters don't seem to be having much issue with forgetting about Montana's loss to 3-5 Northern Arizona or Chattanooga's loss to 3-6 North Alabama.

Completely true. I think voters are being harsh on UNI, and easy on Montana and particularly Chattanooga. As I mentioned IDK how Chattanooga is so much higher than Austin Peay, both have two losses (UNA and WCU) and (SIU and Tennessee) respectively. Chattanooga has a better win in Mercer. But Austin Peay beat the common opponent Chattanooga lost to (UNA).

[F'N Hawks]

xbawlingx

You alright?

[POD Knows]

My poll was dog**** this week, not gonna post it. I do have Villanova at 23, which is about right, I have Ball Sac State to high and I have a big deviation on Florida A&M. I still have HC in my top 25, they won a game without a starting QB, for what that is worth.

Anyway, as they say, there is always next week. If any of these ****ing teams, outside of SDSU and Furman, would show any consistency, this process would be easier.

[ElCid]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: South Dakota Coyotes
9: Incarnate Word Cardinals
10: North Carolina Central Eagles
11: Youngstown State Penguins
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: Southern Illinois Salukis
14: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
15: Albany Great Danes
16: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: North Dakota State Bison
19: Mercer Bears
20: Lafayette Leopards
21: Western Carolina Catamounts
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Richmond Spiders
25: Harvard Crimson

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Western Carolina Catamounts
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

I'm just curious how you justify NCCU at 10 and Lafayette at 20. Same record. Both with weaker schedules than average, but NCCU with the weaker of the two. Not by a huge amount, but still weaker. Like I said, just curious as to your justification.

I'll add, it just ain't you. Goes for anyone ranking them as such. Makes zero sense to me. Am I missing something?

[F'N Hawks]

Another reason why rankings are never truly accurate is some teams haven't played the best yet. USD was somehow #4 in the country but hadn't played SDSU, which was a guaranteed loss. UNI and UND had already played them and taken their L. NDSU gets their L this weekend. So records are skewed. Now it will all even out over the next couple weeks.

[crusader11]

My poll was dog**** this week, not gonna post it.

Candyass. xdrunkyx

[Professor Chaos]

Professor
Why are you so low on Southern Illinois ?
Mainly because they got stomped by Youngstown St. They've got nice wins over Austin Peay and Northern Illinois but I want to see them do it against good MVFC teams. My MVFC pecking order right now is SDSU, USD/UNI (in whatever order), YSU, SIU/NDSU (in whatever order), UND - so when I've got to put 4 MVFC teams above them they get knocked down a ways.

[caribbeanhen]

Mainly because they got stomped by Youngstown St. They've got nice wins over Austin Peay and Northern Illinois but I want to see them do it against good MVFC teams. My MVFC pecking order right now is SDSU, USD/UNI (in whatever order), YSU, SIU/NDSU (in whatever order), UND - so when I've got to put 4 MVFC teams above them they get knocked down a ways.

I see, well I’ve only caught a glimpse of them but something about them I liked

[Preferred Walk-On]

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/29/2023 5:42:49

Your vote is listed below.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: Mercer Bears
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: North Dakota State Bison
16: Austin Peay Governors
17: Incarnate Word Cardinals
18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
19: North Carolina Central Eagles
20: Albany Great Danes
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Holy Cross Crusaders
25: Florida A&M Rattlers

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[MSUBobcat]

UNI struggled with Indiana State. Can't rank a team that struggles with ISUb highly....unless you have Dakota in the name apparently.

We had a long discussion last week, and you know I respect your takes, but everything I said would happen absolutely happened. It was the best/worst case scenario to prove my points from last week when I talked about lazy voting, slot voting, applying double standards.

UNI got slammed for getting devastated by SDSU. USD? Holds on a seed to line for a similar loss. That's not even taking into account USD played them at home and UNI was on the road for Hobo Day.

UNI got slammed for struggling with ISUb on the road. We talked about the USD game last week and how it was seen as gutting out a road win in the Valley compared to UNI "struggling". Now UND has ISUB at home and needs a last second FG to force OT to get the win and it's also apparently being spun, just like the USD win, as gutting out a victory at home against a Valley team while still ignoring that just the week before they were shut out 27-0 by UNI.

You told me I was wrong, and things would change and would work itself out and whatever else. It's comical how predictable it is.

My question this week to track exactly the same thing: Does UNI get a massive bump for thumping WIU? They shouldn't, but it's clearly propping up programs like NDSU and UND. Hell, SIU got a 3 spot bump to the top 10 after beating WIU who was on a 20 game losing streak. Does UNI get the same bump or is it seen as "They just beat a bad team. Big deal". Should UNI "struggle" and not blow WIU out by 4+ scores does it give voters reason to drop them down even further behind UND and YSU? I'm going to bet yes.

I posted in agreement on the STATS poll thread. A UND fan made a comment last week about how UND is 2 teams: home UND and road UND. Well... this weekend proved otherwise, as "home UND" should have trucked ISU-b. They should have been punished much more, but they're still getting miles out of beating NDSU while UNI is getting held back for the loss to Weber.

[SpreadTheWord]

Hello SpreadTheWord,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/30/2023 9:05:45

Your vote is listed below.


1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
3: Montana Grizzlies
4: Idaho Vandals
5: Montana State Bobcats
6: Furman Paladins
7: Sac State Hornets
8: South Dakota Coyotes
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: North Dakota State Bison
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: North Carolina Central Eagles
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Austin Peay Governors
17: Northern Iowa Panthers
18: Villanova Wildcats
19: Mercer Bears
20: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
21: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Richmond Spiders
24: Central Arkansas Bears
25: Lafayette Leopards

SpreadTheWord

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Montana State Bobcats
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southland Conference

[caribbeanhen]

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/29/2023 5:42:49

Your vote is listed below.

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: Mercer Bears
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: North Dakota State Bison
16: Austin Peay Governors
17: Incarnate Word Cardinals
18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
19: North Carolina Central Eagles
20: Albany Great Danes
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Holy Cross Crusaders
25: Florida A&M Rattlers

The Most Significant Win: Mercer Bears
The Most Significant Loss: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Villanova would roll the Rattlers

[Vandal03]

This week's poll article: https://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-5/

Pretty strange to see 4 teams from one conference (Big Sky) in the top 7 and 7 teams from another conference (MVFC) in the top 19 this late in the season. Speaking of that I still think UNI is under-ranked at #19 even though they got a nice bump this week. Looking at the point totals we could've just called it the top 24 this week as there's a big drop off between FAMU and Harvard.

I find it amazing that all four of the Big Sky’s top teams will play each other this season. Makes it easier to determine who will get the auto bid.

[caribbeanhen]

Hello SpreadTheWord,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/30/2023 9:05:45

Your vote is listed below.


1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
3: Montana Grizzlies
4: Idaho Vandals
5: Montana State Bobcats
6: Furman Paladins
7: Sac State Hornets
8: South Dakota Coyotes
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: North Dakota State Bison
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: North Carolina Central Eagles
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Incarnate Word Cardinals
16: Austin Peay Governors
17: Northern Iowa Panthers
18: Villanova Wildcats
19: Mercer Bears
20: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
21: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Richmond Spiders
24: Central Arkansas Bears
25: Lafayette Leopards

SpreadTheWord

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Montana State Bobcats
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southland Conference

Albany beat Villanova 31-10

[F'N Hawks]

I posted in agreement on the STATS poll thread. A UND fan made a comment last week about how UND is 2 teams: home UND and road UND. Well... this weekend proved otherwise, as "home UND" should have trucked ISU-b. They should have been punished much more, but they're still getting miles out of beating NDSU while UNI is getting held back for the loss to Weber.

That's surface level. USD didn't truck them. UNI didn't truck them. Both had a very hard time with ISU-B but people don't want to have that convo. Sure UND isn't playing well after the big NDSU ass-kicking but there are three games left. I am far from worried about them. They are a 7-4 or 8-3 team as we all expected.

[jacksfan29!]

After the last two weeks I don't see how you can have UND over UNI. USD does only have 1 fcs loss and it seemed equivalent to how UNI lost to SDSU so I think they are still ahead. For reference I had USD 8, UNI 12, and UND 19

UND are living off one win, NDSU. Still have not figured that one out.

[SpreadTheWord]

Albany beat Villanova 31-10

Oh, ok.

[MSUBobcat]

My poll was dog**** this week, not gonna post it. I do have Villanova at 23, which is about right, I have Ball Sac State to high and I have a big deviation on Florida A&M. I still have HC in my top 25, they won a game without a starting QB, for what that is worth.

Anyway, as they say, there is always next week. If any of these ****ing teams, outside of SDSU and Furman, would show any consistency, this process would be easier.

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xnodxxnodx xthumbsupx

[POD Knows]

UND are living off one win, NDSU. Still have not figured that one out.Yea, and the NDSU win is barely a quality win either, NDSU has beaten no one really, the wins over UCA and EWU look worse by the week.

[F'N Hawks]

UND are living off one win, NDSU. Still have not figured that one out.

What is USD living off of?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm just curious how you justify NCCU at 10 and Lafayette at 20. Same record. Both with weaker schedules than average, but NCCU with the weaker of the two. Not by a huge amount, but still weaker. Like I said, just curious as to your justification.

I'll add, it just ain't you. Goes for anyone ranking them as such. Makes zero sense to me. Am I missing something?

NCCU has been doing it for two years at a high-level. Their ability to operate this year with the target on their back really impresses me. There's an added level of mental fortitude you acquire with expectation/success.

The 'Pards are just starting to feel the pressure. They'll move up accordingly if they take care of business. I mentioned their seed viability in another thread should they finish 10-1.

[Chalupa Batman]

What is USD living off of?

They also beat Youngstown. But yes they were living way too much of that NDSU win also.

[F'N Hawks]

They also beat Youngstown. But yes they were living way too much of that NDSU win also.

True. As far as UND goes the only game they could've won & didn't is UNI and they got killed. So whatevs. They are a 14-18 ranked team imo but it will sort itself out. UND needs to beat the Yotes on the road to justify any high ranking.

[Grizalltheway]

Week 9 rankings do not matter whatsoever. End of story. In two weeks it will all be different and the teams battling for 10-17 are all at-larges anyway. The committee will then screw over those they don't like (UND) and give home games to teams they do like (UM). Rinse, repeat.

UM gets home games because they're based on bids, and they out-bid every single team in FCS. Do we really have to do this EVERY year?

[clenz]

That's surface level. USD didn't truck them. UNI didn't truck them. Both had a very hard time with ISU-B but people don't want to have that convo. Sure UND isn't playing well after the big NDSU ass-kicking but there are three games left. I am far from worried about them. They are a 7-4 or 8-3 team as we all expected.
No one wants to? I've been trying to have that conversation for over a week now. I've mentioned it multiple times in this thread alone.

UNI did struggle and won on the road by 7
USD wasn't convinced but won on the road by 10
UND won at home by 3 in OT despite being as close to losing as humanly possible without taking the L.

None of them did what they *should* have to ISUb. There are legitimate reasons to hold that against all 3. The difference is one had the game at home, and needed a last second FG to even get to OT. On the flip side the national story around all 3 have been different as well. USD was largely ignored as having a close game and if it was mentioned at all it was gritty out a road Valley win. UND does seem to have some pushback on the close win, though not as much as I'd have expected, as seen by keeping the rankings they had. UNI had a national talking point of "lucky to get out of there", which could be true but they aren't alone in that. UND has a chance to beat USD and flip that narrative completely yet and settle out some of the debate.

[MSUBobcat]

That's surface level. USD didn't truck them. UNI didn't truck them. Both had a very hard time with ISU-B but people don't want to have that convo. Sure UND isn't playing well after the big NDSU ass-kicking but there are three games left. I am far from worried about them. They are a 7-4 or 8-3 team as we all expected.

You sure about that, Clark? USD came around and beat them pretty convincingly (could have been by 17-21 easily, given they were on the 8 yard line at the end of the game) and yes, UNI only won by 7, but it was in regulation and both were in Terre Haute (long bus trip for UNI or charter flight?). UND needed a last minute drive to get into FG range to send it to OT at home. One could say the Sycamores were closer to getting a W at UND than at Murray State. Let me repeat that... MURRAY STATE had the game more in hand than UND....

As for being 7-4 or 8-3... given the last 2 weeks, I wouldn't count your chicken hawks before they hatch. @USD should be penciled in as a loss until proven otherwise, which means 8-3 is out the window. That last game against Ill State won't be a gimme either, as it'll be a play-in game for both teams if sitting at 6-4.

[Chalupa Batman]

No one wants to? I've been trying to have that conversation for over a week now. I've mentioned it multiple times in this thread alone.

UNI did struggle and won on the road by 7
USD wasn't convinced but won on the road by 10
UND won at home by 3 in OT despite being as close to losing as humanly possible without taking the L.

None of them did what they *should* have to ISUb. There are legitimate reasons to hold that against all 3. The difference is one had the game at home, and needed a last second FG to even get to OT. On the flip side the national story around all 3 have been different as well. USD was largely ignored as having a close game and if it was mentioned at all it was gritty out a road Valley win. UND does seem to have some pushback on the close win, though not as much as I'd have expected, as seen by keeping the rankings they had. UNI had a national talking point of "lucky to get out of there", which could be true but they aren't alone in that. UND has a chance to beat USD and flip that narrative completely yet and settle out some of the debate.

I honestly didn't hear too much narrative about the USD-ISUb game, but I viewed it more as looking ahead to their game with SDSU along with being distracted by all the rumors about College Gameday being at that game. Still not a free pass by any means but a little different narrative than "a gritty road win" in the Valley.

[MSUBobcat]

UM gets home games because they're based on bids, and they out-bid every single team in FCS. Do we really have to do this EVERY year?

Wellllllllll...... there may have been some evidence that UND got hosed last year outbidding BBQ but getting sent to Ogden, presumably because the Grills would have objectively been the higher ranked team (9-2 with FBS win vs 7-4)

[clenz]

Also I want to point out the massive hypocricy it is for a UND fan to talk about me (or UNI fan) complaining about rankings - again note, I've never once complained about the number by UNI's name - when UND's forum has spawned a drinking game amounts a group of people for everytime the bitch have bitched out UNI's ranking the last 4 or 5 years.

I went to their forum and they have a thread called "Polls" that was started last year and continues this year. The first post in the thread, on their forum, talking about rankings is


Uni moves yo to .17 with a quality loss to hbd

The first 5 psots are all UNI related

UNI 25th with 153 votes
UND 41 votes and behind USD with their quality loss.

We move to 23
uni moves out of the top 25

Neither team will be ranked but will receive votes

UNI to 15.......UND at 25
Then we get 3 posts without mentioning UNI and then

Massey:- UND: beat UNI and move down 2
- UNI: lose to UND and move down 19!
Why'd UND move down in Massey? Weber, Incarnate, Delaware, and Chattanooga all made monster steps up. Good for them. < shrug >

I don't know...it's going to be hard to leapfrog UNI with that quality loss to UND they have

20 was better than what I thought it would be
northern Iowa stays at 22 in this poll

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/stats-perform-fcs-top-25?utm_campaign=links-bundle-asset#22 ?
with northern Arizona and northern Iowa getting votes

That's just in the first 10-15 posts of that thread which has 428 replies at this point. I'd bet if I kept going UNI gets mentioned about 20-30% of the thread. It's actually hilarious to stalk their forum to see how often UNI gets mentioned out of nowhere in threads. As I said, it's become a bit of a running game between a handful of friends and I.

[ElCid]

NCCU has been doing it for two years at a high-level. Their ability to operate this year with the target on their back really impresses me. There's an added level of mental fortitude you acquire with expectation/success.

The 'Pards are just starting to feel the pressure. They'll move up accordingly if they take care of business. I mentioned their seed viability in another thread should they finish 10-1.

Ok. I guess by this time of the season I give previous seasons 0.00 weight when it comes to ranking for this season. But that is a legit argument to make. But the weakness of their schedule really limits their ceiling for me. 89 of 128 per Massey. 228 of 261 per Sagarin.

[clenz]

I honestly didn't hear too much narrative about the USD-ISUb game, but I viewed it more as looking ahead to their game with SDSU along with being distracted by all the rumors about College Gameday being at that game. Still not a free pass by any means but a little different narrative than "a gritty road win" in the Valley.
And that is 100% valid. I'm not suggesting anyone should have knocked USD for the win or tried to spin a narrative around it. I'm just pointing out things I see/read nationally around those games.

You're right there wasn't much said, at all, about the USD/ISU game. Wasn't much to say. USD did what they needed to do to win. That's all that needed to be known about that game. Just like UNI.

UNI and USD had damn near the exact same number of yards of offense. UNI gave up more yards, most of which can be attributed to a broken coverage play that went for 60 for the Trees while the long USD gave up was 30. UNI held ISU to 96 rushing yards on 2.5 per carry and USD had them 3.4 ypc for 136 yards.

Very similar games that just had like 3 plays break differently for scoring, really.

I don't want anything I've said to be seen as a slight to USD in anyway. It's not. They are catching strays that their fans/program hasn't done anything to deserve this year. It's all from a "national" perspective and some voters. I think USD has played great this year, in general, and have been impressed with what they've done

[Preferred Walk-On]

Villanova would roll the Rattlers

As always, I am thrilled when someone picks on my 25th ranked team. ;)

[Preferred Walk-On]

They also beat Youngstown. But yes they were living way too much of that NDSU win also.

Do you mean the 5 pt USD win where NDSU's offense acted like they were up three scores at home and just trying to salt the game away. You mean that one? ;)

That said, I will admit I am a USD offender to an extent, but except for SDSU (and Missouri), where is their other loss? THAT is why I (and others) might have them a tad too high.

[Chalupa Batman]

Do you mean the 5 pt USD win where NDSU's offense acted like they were up three scores at home and just trying to salt the game away. You mean that one? ;)

That said, I will admit I am a USD offender to an extent, but except for SDSU (and Missouri), where is their other loss? THAT is why I (and others) might have them a tad too high.

I had them at 10 and you had them at 9 so I think we are about right. I had them at 4 I think last week though when they probably should've been 6 or 7.

[Preferred Walk-On]

UM gets home games because they're based on bids, and they out-bid every single team in FCS. Do we really have to do this EVERY year?

This is likely why a 2-1 (possibly an 1-2) November for NDSU: (A) still gets them in at 7-4, AND (B) they host a home playoff game on Thanksgiving weekend.

The only way I don't see them in is if after SDSU absolutely dismantles them, they decide to not respond and get "slaughtered" (MTfan4life's words) by both SIU and UNI. Unfortunately, with this team, I am not exactly sure that won't happen.

I see we are talking about a (some) 6-5 possibilities, and if NDSU is 6-5 (and respectable in both losses to SIU and UNI), I think they might still be in, given the bid process. I don't think they would deserve it, but I do think it is a distinct possibility.

[SeattleCat]

I believe the parity this year in FCS is very close amongst all FCS teams not named SDSU, however they are not invincible. The playoffs will be very interesting this year.

[clenz]

This is likely why a 2-1 (possibly an 1-2) November for NDSU: (A) still gets them in at 7-4, AND (B) they host a home playoff game on Thanksgiving weekend.

The only way I don't see them in is if after SDSU absolutely dismantles them, they decide to not respond and get "slaughtered" (MTfan4life's words) by both SIU and UNI. Unfortunately, with this team, I am not exactly sure that won't happen.

I see we are talking about a (some) 6-5 possibilities, and if NDSU is 6-5 (and respectable in both losses to SIU and UNI), I think they might still be in, given the bid process. I don't think they would deserve it, but I do think it is a distinct possibility.
It's been long enough since UNI beat NDSU that I have little confidence in that game.

Though should UNI get to 7-3 (6-1) heading into that game and NDSU is very much on the bubble at 6-4 there would be little that would have ever made me feel more petty glee than absolutely drubbing NDSU in that game...though that situation is about a .02% chance of happening

[nodak651]

You sure about that, Clark? USD came around and beat them pretty convincingly (could have been by 17-21 easily, given they were on the 8 yard line at the end of the game) and yes, UNI only won by 7, but it was in regulation and both were in Terre Haute (long bus trip for UNI or charter flight?). UND needed a last minute drive to get into FG range to send it to OT at home. One could say the Sycamores were closer to getting a W at UND than at Murray State. Let me repeat that... MURRAY STATE had the game more in hand than UND....

As for being 7-4 or 8-3... given the last 2 weeks, I wouldn't count your chicken hawks before they hatch. @USD should be penciled in as a loss until proven otherwise, which means 8-3 is out the window. That last game against Ill State won't be a gimme either, as it'll be a play-in game for both teams if sitting at 6-4.

At the same time, let's ignore Montana's loss to NAU, SAC's 1 point win vs NAU at home, and UND's dismantling of NAU.

[Houndawg]

You alright?

xthumbsupx

[Houndawg]

Mainly because they got stomped by Youngstown St. They've got nice wins over Austin Peay and Northern Illinois but I want to see them do it against good MVFC teams. My MVFC pecking order right now is SDSU, USD/UNI (in whatever order), YSU, SIU/NDSU (in whatever order), UND - so when I've got to put 4 MVFC teams above them they get knocked down a ways.

It was a complete no show and the question was whether it was just one of those games that happen every so often or if they were overrated and exposed. They played much better against SDSU so I think YSU was just a flat week emotionally for them; 'yotes better not be half-stepping this week.... ;)

[TheKingpin28]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Idaho Vandals
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Incarnate Word Cardinals
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: South Dakota Coyotes
11: North Dakota State Bison
12: North Carolina Central Eagles
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: Chattanooga Mocs
15: Villanova Wildcats
16: Northern Iowa Panthers
17: Youngstown State Penguins
18: Mercer Bears
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Albany Great Danes
21: Lafayette Leopards
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Austin Peay Governors
25: Holy Cross Crusaders

I double checked it and meant to have Harvard instead of HC. Other than that, only ones I am "off" on are Mercer and WCU.

[F'N Hawks]

It was a complete no show and the question was whether it was just one of those games that happen every so often or if they were overrated and exposed. They played much better against SDSU so I think YSU was just a flat week emotionally for them; 'yotes better not be half-stepping this week.... ;)


wait a minute - flat week emotionally counts now? Cause when UND lost 27-0 at UNI the week after destroying NDSU for 60 straight minutes we were told it's cause they are no good. Confused!!! xlolx

[Houndawg]

wait a minute - flat week emotionally counts now? Cause when UND lost 27-0 at UNI the week after destroying NDSU for 60 straight minutes we were told it's cause they are no good. Confused!!! xlolx

I didn't say anything about it "counting", I was saying that the SDSU game showed me that SIU's debacle at YSU was due more to emotional let down than to being overrated.

[MSUBobcat]

At the same time, let's ignore Montana's loss to NAU, SAC's 1 point win vs NAU at home, and UND's dismantling of NAU.

At the same time, let's ignore that UND played NAU with Kai Millner at QB, who was benched in the UTU game, and that UM was still playing Vidlak at QB, when McDowell is head and shoulders better than Vidlak. Both teams are improved with the change at the crucial QB position. As much as I hate to admit it, the Griz went from overrated in the upper teens to appropriately ranked in the 4-8 range, all by changing out a bad QB with a good one. Don't worry, Montana still has Sac State this weekend and the Brawl to get knocked down a few pegs. xsmiley_wix

[clenz]

wait a minute - flat week emotionally counts now? Cause when UND lost 27-0 at UNI the week after destroying NDSU for 60 straight minutes we were told it's cause they are no good. Confused!!! xlolx
I think the difference in looking at both as no shows but trying to figure out which is more out of the norm is that UND at home is so vastly different than UND on the road and that kind on if inconsistent play is hard to rank. SIU had the big ass let down, but in general has been more consistent. Maybe my thinking is a bit skewed, and I haven't looked at it close enough. However, knowing UND is something like 5-20 in their last 25 road games makes easier to look at them and go "The NDSU win is big, but was it an issue of a big rivalry game at home where they gave the best they could offer and what happened in the 2 weeks after is closer to the mean"? I don't know, but it's a thought one could have at this point.

[F'N Hawks]

I didn't say anything about it "counting", I was saying that the SDSU game showed me that SIU's debacle at YSU was due more to emotional let down than to being overrated.

Tends to happen in sports, some teams more than others

[F'N Hawks]

At the same time, let's ignore that UND played NAU with Kai Millner at QB, who was benched in the UTU game, and that UM was still playing Vidlak at QB, when McDowell is head and shoulders better than Vidlak. Both teams are improved with the change at the crucial QB position. As much as I hate to admit it, the Griz went from overrated in the upper teens to appropriately ranked in the 4-8 range, all by changing out a bad QB with a good one. Don't worry, Montana still has Sac State this weekend and the Brawl to get knocked down a few pegs. xsmiley_wix

I don't care who was playing QB, UND kicked the crap out of them on both sides of the ball. It was 37-9 when NAU scored vs the backups at the end.

[Mike296]

Hello Mike296,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/29/2023 20:47:51

Your vote is listed below.


1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Montana State Bobcats
6: Sac State Hornets
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Incarnate Word Cardinals
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: North Carolina Central Eagles
11: South Dakota Coyotes
12: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
13: North Dakota State Bison
14: Mercer Bears
15: Chattanooga Mocs
16: Lafayette Leopards
17: Austin Peay Governors
18: Western Carolina Catamounts
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Youngstown State Penguins
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Florida A&M Rattlers
25: William & Mary Tribe

Mike296

The Most Significant Win: Idaho Vandals
The Most Significant Loss: Western Carolina Catamounts
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Atlantic Sun Conference

[caribbeanhen]

As always, I am thrilled when someone picks on my 25th ranked team. ;)

Do you think Florida A&M would beat Villanova?

[smilo]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Idaho Vandals
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Furman Paladins
7: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
8: South Dakota Coyotes
9: Albany Great Danes
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Southern Illinois Salukis
12: Mercer Bears
13: Villanova Wildcats
14: Chattanooga Mocs
15: Western Carolina Catamounts
16: Northern Iowa Panthers
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: North Dakota State Bison
19: Incarnate Word Cardinals
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Florida A&M Rattlers
22: North Carolina Central Eagles
23: Lafayette Leopards
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: Harvard Crimson

[MSUBobcat]

I don't care who was playing QB, UND kicked the crap out of them on both sides of the ball. It was 37-9 when NAU scored vs the backups at the end.

And??? Who was talking about NAU, besides you? And, is that because NAU is UND's 2nd best win? Does UND even beat Murray this weekend? Inquiring minds want to know.

[F'N Hawks]

And??? Who was talking about NAU, besides you?

Ummm you? I mean wtf is going on here

[MSUBobcat]

Ummm you? I mean wtf is going on here

Only in response to YOU bringing them up when talking about "let's ignore". JFC. I just added context to why NAU beat UM. QB's matter. NAU had changed theirs, UM had not when they played.

[nodak651]

Only in response to YOU bringing them up when talking about "let's ignore". JFC. I just added context to why NAU beat UM. QB's matter. NAU had changed theirs, UM had not when they played.
I brought it up because people are looking at the ISUb games under a microscope. It's not like UND or UNI or South Dakota lost. Point is that this is a stupid ass discussion when teams like Montana are ranked where they are and actual losses are ignored or justified for some bs reason. Montana should have beat NAU no matter who their QB was. UND beating ISUb close is seemingly worse than Montana's loss to NAU! Excuses about who was or wasn't playing are stupid when there are so many players and teams to account for across the country... wins and losses matter. Does UND get bonus points for their RB getting hurt during the UNI game and having him out for the ISUb game? No. Does Montana get credit for who was or wasn't playing? I don't know... seems so, but they shouldn't get special treatment.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Do you think Florida A&M would beat Villanova?

Probably depends on where played, but yeah I do think it is possible. When a 25 vs. a 26-27 team play, it seems entirely plausible to me that it is a toss-up. Please tell me why Villanova is infinitely better than Florida A&M (whose only loss is to an FBS). One would have to argue that the CAA is just so much better (and Villanova's schedule to this point in the CAA has been "average"?; no Delaware yet, and their best CAA opponent, Albany, absolutely owned them), and that perhaps this CAA vs. SWAC discrepancy is a bit more difficult sell this year, wouldn't you say? I'm not saying it is not there, I am just saying it cannot be the driving force of any argument, let alone one regarding teams at the bottom of the 25.

There, I have just spent more time on a 25 team (and just outside of 25 team) than warranted. But I appreciate no problems with the part of the rankings that matters. ;)

[Preferred Walk-On]

It's been long enough since UNI beat NDSU that I have little confidence in that game.

Though should UNI get to 7-3 (6-1) heading into that game and NDSU is very much on the bubble at 6-4 there would be little that would have ever made me feel more petty glee than absolutely drubbing NDSU in that game...though that situation is about a .02% chance of happening

Unfortunately, I think there is a better chance of that happening than you think. Of course, I have been called an NDSU contrarian within an analogous poll results thread before...for ranking them #6...just before they lost to USD...at home. So why stop now?

[SeattleCat]

I brought it up because people are looking at the ISUb games under a microscope. It's not like UND or UNI or South Dakota lost. Point is that this is a stupid ass discussion when teams like Montana are ranked where they are and actual losses are ignored or justified for some bs reason. Montana should have beat NAU no matter who their QB was. UND beating ISUb close is seemingly worse than Montana's loss to NAU! Excuses about who was or wasn't playing are stupid when there are so many players and teams to account for across the country... wins and losses matter. Does UND get bonus points for their RB getting hurt during the UNI game and having him out for the ISUb game? No. Does Montana get credit for who was or wasn't playing? I don't know... seems so, but they shouldn't get special treatment.

Apparently you've never seen Vidak play... he's not good and personally from the griz's first game it was obvious who should be the QB, the fact it took them so long to change was mind blowing.

[nodak651]

Apparently you've never seen Vidak play... he's not good and personally from the griz's first game it was obvious who should be the QB, the fact it took them so long to change was mind blowing.

So it was a bad coaching decision. The games happened. Should we look back, with the benefit of hindsight, and guess how other games may have ended differently had the coaches made different decisions? Sounds pretty stupid.

[MSUBobcat]

I brought it up because people are looking at the ISUb games under a microscope. It's not like UND or UNI or South Dakota lost. Point is that this is a stupid ass discussion when teams like Montana are ranked where they are and actual losses are ignored or justified for some bs reason. Montana should have beat NAU no matter who their QB was. UND beating ISUb close is seemingly worse than Montana's loss to NAU! Excuses about who was or wasn't playing are stupid when there are so many players and teams to account for across the country... wins and losses matter. Does UND get bonus points for their RB getting hurt during the UNI game and having him out for the ISUb game? No. Does Montana get credit for who was or wasn't playing? I don't know... seems so, but they shouldn't get special treatment.

We're just using that team as a common opponent, which suggests that UNI should be ranked above UND. I don't feel like USD struggled much other than the 1st half. Looking at the box score/play-by-play, they were pretty successful in the 2nd half. UNI didn't fare as well as USD, but better than UND. Both were at least on the road. UND at home was the closest ISU-b came to a W so far this year. UND has the 1 nice win over an in-state rival, at home, followed by a dismantling @UNI which could be looked at as a let-down after the big win over a hated rival. But then the following week is a major struggle against a pretty weak team. So as clenz mentioned a while back, they won a game that really surprised people, but then followed with 2 stinkers that has people wondering, which is the real UND team. Was the NDSU game the outlier and the last 2 they are regressing back to their mean? I'm penciling in losses @USD and vs. Ill State and being on the outside looking in for UND at this point. And that's not bias. If anything, I'm a closet UND fan, growing up in Mandan. My dad pitched for them back in the day and I'm still a huge supporter of the hockey program. I would very likely be a UND alum if my parents hadn't moved me to MT in my junior year of HS which caused me to lose ND residency and gain MT residency.

[MSUBobcat]

Apparently you've never seen Vidak play... he's not good and personally from the griz's first game it was obvious who should be the QB, the fact it took them so long to change was mind blowing.

I was really hoping to repeat last year's Brawl in their house. Sadly, with the change, I think it's going to be a dogfight.


So it was a bad coaching decision. The games happened. Should we look back, with the benefit of hindsight, and guess how other games may have ended differently had the coaches made different decisions? Sounds pretty stupid.

Who said anything about ignoring it? People are just acknowledging that the Jizz (I can't keep propping them up without SOME KIND of derogatory term) as they are currently playing, are a pretty formidable opponent. If we were ignoring it, they'd be 7-0 with a win over Idaho and they'd be ranked #2, not #6. If we were guessing how games would have ended with different decisions... well, I'd like to redo some decisions from the SDSU game as well as the UI game......xbangx

[nodak651]

I was really hoping to repeat last year's Brawl in their house. Sadly, with the change, I think it's going to be a dogfight.



Who said anything about ignoring it? People are just acknowledging that the Jizz (I can't keep propping them up without SOME KIND of derogatory term) as they are currently playing, are a pretty formidable opponent. If we were ignoring it, they'd be 7-0 with a win over Idaho and they'd be ranked #2, not #6. If we were guessing how games would have ended with different decisions... well, I'd like to redo some decisions from the SDSU game as well as the UI game......xbangx

It's being ignored in the context that it doesn't count as a decent win for UND, because Montana chose to play the wrong qb and the assumption is they would have otherwise won. With that said, I'm not complaining about UNDs ranking. Just the talking points.

[MSUBobcat]

It's being ignored in the context that it doesn't count as a decent win for UND, because Montana chose to play the wrong qb and the assumption is they would have otherwise won. With that said, I'm not complaining about UNDs ranking. Just the talking points.

I mean.... I literally called NAU the Hawks' 2nd best win. If you read that to mean it wasn't a decent win, that doesn't say much about UND's resume.

[clenz]

It's being ignored in the context that it doesn't count as a decent win for UND, because Montana chose to play the wrong qb and the assumption is they would have otherwise won. With that said, I'm not complaining about UNDs ranking. Just the talking points.
I don't have a dog in this portion of the debate but to put a UNI spin on it because it has to be all about me...:D

Montana made a change at QB to Clifton saved their season and made them near unstoppable? Has it or has the schedule been nice and Montana got a similar result to UND against NDSU?

It wasn't Vidlak that managed to get a killer 1 score win over Idaho State at home. A win is a win just as UNI's win vs ISUb is a win. But UNI named their score on Idaho State in Idaho. Clifton went 13-20 for 160 yards to get a 28-20 win. He as a sub 60% competion rate.

Is he a better fit and does he allow Montana to do more things on offense? Yes. No doubt but he has also faced

1-7 Idaho State - 8 point win - 222 total yards of offense created
4-4 Davis - 8 point win - 270 total yards of offense created
6-2 Idaho - 2 points win and was a great win - he was 11-18 for 176 with 38 yards rushing - 214 total yards of offense created
0-8 Northern Colorado - 151 yards of offense created and was 7-14 passing. Looks like someone else had more passing attempts, I'm assuming score related and he was pulled, and it wasn't injury or performance related.

Looks like he really only led 1 scoring drive against Idaho, which was capped by an 8 yard TD run and a WR broke a 76 yard TD run after catch on another - which means the rest of the game he was 10-17 for 98 yards.

I get stats don't tell the full story, and it's clear Montana is playing better. I'm not going to say they are bad or anything near it. Thought I don't fault anyone for still having questions. Their "style points", which is where rankings get a lot of their push from traditionally, isn't great. 15 points over a bad PFL team, did beat up on a horrible Utah Tech, struggled with a D2, 8 point win over 1 win Idaho State, 8 point win over 9th place Davis, and then UNC being bad got what UNC deserves. But there is also that Idaho win, on the road at that.

Montana is a conundrum to me, from my limited non-voting research. You have all the the reason to actually doubt them and question if they are as good as their record based on strength of record, BUT they are winning and did pass the one actual test they had. So, credit where it's due for them at this point. Beat Sac State this weekend and any questions should go away.

[MSUBobcat]

I don't have a dog in this portion of the debate but to put a UNI spin on it because it has to be all about me...:D

Montana made a change at QB to Clifton saved their season and made them near unstoppable? Has it or has the schedule been nice and Montana got a similar result to UND against NDSU?

It wasn't Vidlak that managed to get a killer 1 score win over Idaho State at home. A win is a win just as UNI's win vs ISUb is a win. But UNI named their score on Idaho State in Idaho. Clifton went 13-20 for 160 yards to get a 28-20 win. He as a sub 60% competion rate.

Is he a better fit and does he allow Montana to do more things on offense? Yes. No doubt but he has also faced

1-7 Idaho State - 8 point win - 222 total yards of offense created
4-4 Davis - 8 point win - 270 total yards of offense created
6-2 Idaho - 2 points win and was a great win - he was 11-18 for 176 with 38 yards rushing - 214 total yards of offense created
0-8 Northern Colorado - 151 yards of offense created and was 7-14 passing. Looks like someone else had more passing attempts, I'm assuming score related and he was pulled, and it wasn't injury or performance related.

Looks like he really only led 1 scoring drive against Idaho, which was capped by an 8 yard TD run and a WR broke a 76 yard TD run after catch on another - which means the rest of the game he was 10-17 for 98 yards.

I get stats don't tell the full story, and it's clear Montana is playing better. I'm not going to say they are bad or anything near it. Thought I don't fault anyone for still having questions. Their "style points", which is where rankings get a lot of their push from traditionally, isn't great. 15 points over a bad PFL team, did beat up on a horrible Utah Tech, struggled with a D2, 8 point win over 1 win Idaho State, 8 point win over 9th place Davis, and then UNC being bad got what UNC deserves. But there is also that Idaho win, on the road at that.

Montana is a conundrum to me, from my limited non-voting research. You have all the the reason to actually doubt them and question if they are as good as their record based on strength of record, BUT they are winning and did pass the one actual test they had. So, credit where it's due for them at this point. Beat Sac State this weekend and any questions should go away.

I'm not saying McDowell is Tom Brady. He's just not Vidlak, who is about as good at QB as MSU's Hall is at kicking FGs.... dUMb IS a conundrum still. Lacking the beatdowns that you want to see over some bad teams, even if they threw me out there at QB. As you say, McDowell did enough to survive Idaho's 2nd half push, but that's about it. This weekend will tell a lot about them, IMO. MSU eventually pulled away from BallSac and on the road to boot, so I would want to see them to do at least as well being in one of the harder FCS stadiums for road teams.

Also, Idaho State is 3-5 and 3-3 vs. FCS, not sure where you're getting 1-7. They aren't your typical Bungles team and UNI should definitely be getting more credit for boatracing them. Idaho State may even end up above .500 vs. FCS opponents if they can hold serve at home against BBQ and Davis (they aren't beating UI in Moscow...). I do kinda want to see them thump the Grills just for the ISU-o>WSU>UNI>ISU-o circle it would create.

[nodak651]

Just gonna say I love the FCS because we get to look forward to all of this being settled where it should, on the field!

[MSUBobcat]

Just gonna say I love the FCS because we get to look forward to all of this being settled where it should, on the field!

Amen!

But to REALLY stir **** up, if SDSU could lose to NDSU and Furman lose to Chatty so we have even more A beats B who beats C who beats A, that'd be great.

[caribbeanhen]

Probably depends on where played, but yeah I do think it is possible. When a 25 vs. a 26-27 team play, it seems entirely plausible to me that it is a toss-up. Please tell me why Villanova is infinitely better than Florida A&M (whose only loss is to an FBS). One would have to argue that the CAA is just so much better (and Villanova's schedule to this point in the CAA has been "average"?; no Delaware yet, and their best CAA opponent, Albany, absolutely owned them), and that perhaps this CAA vs. SWAC discrepancy is a bit more difficult sell this year, wouldn't you say? I'm not saying it is not there, I am just saying it cannot be the driving force of any argument, let alone one regarding teams at the bottom of the 25.

There, I have just spent more time on a 25 team (and just outside of 25 team) than warranted. But I appreciate no problems with the part of the rankings that matters. ;)

Waste of time? Yes, because unfortunately we will never see this game. On those rare instances like 2021 where we do see Florida A&M play outside of their bubble, they got beat bad by Southeastern Louisiana Just as history said they would

Doesn’t matter where played according to Massey

Villanova wins by eight points in Tallahassee

have you even watched any CAA games this year? Or Florida A&M games?

eye test goes to Nova

The SWAC is horrible

[Preferred Walk-On]

Waste of time? Yes, because unfortunately we will never see this game. On those rare instances like 2021 where we do see Florida A&M play outside of their bubble, they got beat bad by Southeastern Louisiana Just as history said they would

Doesn’t matter where played according to Massey

Villanova wins by eight points in Tallahassee

have you even watched any CAA games this year? Or Florida A&M games?

eye test goes to Nova

The SWAC is horrible

2021 is not this year. I believe that point has been discussed a number of times within this forum when discussing where to rank teams (e.g., Incarnate Word). Also, Southeastern Louisiana was #17 and Florida A&M was #27, according to AGS, so 24 pt victory is not really that surprising.

I am guessing they pass Massey's eye-test?...sorry, had to. ;)

No they don't. They are predicted to win by 8 pt. That's why they don't play the games on paper.

YouTube highlights for CAA and a couple of SWAC games (not Florida A&M specifically).

Tell me that the CAA isn't. Or alternatively, tell me why the CAA is so much better than the SWAC, and if you say eye-test, then I would say for at least one pair of eyes. It really is unfortunate that we don't get to see the SWAC's best come FCS playoff time.

[caribbeanhen]

2021 is not this year. I believe that point has been discussed a number of times within this forum when discussing where to rank teams (e.g., Incarnate Word). Also, Southeastern Louisiana was #17 and Florida A&M was #27, according to AGS, so 24 pt victory is not really that surprising.

I am guessing they pass Massey's eye-test?...sorry, had to. ;)

No they don't. They are predicted to win by 8 pt. That's why they don't play the games on paper.

YouTube highlights for CAA and a couple of SWAC games (not Florida A&M specifically).

Tell me that the CAA isn't. Or alternatively, tell me why the CAA is so much better than the SWAC, and if you say eye-test, then I would say for at least one pair of eyes. It really is unfortunate that we don't get to see the SWAC's best come FCS playoff time.

2021 is not this year but historically SWAC teams have not performed well outside the SWAC

There’s really no right or wrong way to do a poll. It doesn’t matter how many times it has been discussed. Hot air

So you’re telling me it’s really not that surprising that the 17th ranked team beat the 27th ranked team by 24 points? 👎

Massey is a Datapoint that is used frequently on this site, and actually not having a set of eyes might actually help. It just depends who’s watching. 😆

why is the CAA so much better than the SWAC? Well pathetic Hampton beat Grambling but that’s not really the reason

i’m not even sure if that’s a serious question

[Preferred Walk-On]

why is the CAA so much better than the SWAC? Well pathetic Hampton beat Grambling but that’s not really the reason

i’m not even sure if that’s a serious question

That is ONE data point...one. I know it is not a SWAC, but Morgan State (near bottom of MEAC, at least in overall record) beat Richmond (who, BTW, AGS voters are ranking...see top 30). Since best of MEAC plays SWAC, I am using this as somewhat equivalent. Also, Hampton beat Richmond (worse than they beat Grambling, so...).

Oh, and it wasn't really. Just wanted to point out that preconceived notions about a conference do not necessarily make that conference good (or bad) in any one given year.

[robsnotes4u]

UND are living off one win, NDSU. Still have not figured that one out.

There are other teams in the same boat and have a bad loss. I went to UND and I agree with you.


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[robsnotes4u]

UM gets home games because they're based on bids, and they out-bid every single team in FCS. Do we really have to do this EVERY year?

That wasn't the case last year. Weber/UND


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[robsnotes4u]

At the same time, let's ignore that UND played NAU with Kai Millner at QB, who was benched in the UTU game, and that UM was still playing Vidlak at QB, when McDowell is head and shoulders better than Vidlak. Both teams are improved with the change at the crucial QB position. As much as I hate to admit it, the Griz went from overrated in the upper teens to appropriately ranked in the 4-8 range, all by changing out a bad QB with a good one. Don't worry, Montana still has Sac State this weekend and the Brawl to get knocked down a few pegs. xsmiley_wix

Don't forget PSU, they will not go quietly


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[SeattleCat]

That wasn't the case last year. Weber/UND


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Highest bidder doesn't automatically win, depends on how many butts can be put in seats to make money off ticket sales.

This is known.

[robsnotes4u]

We're just using that team as a common opponent, which suggests that UNI should be ranked above UND. I don't feel like USD struggled much other than the 1st half. Looking at the box score/play-by-play, they were pretty successful in the 2nd half. UNI didn't fare as well as USD, but better than UND. Both were at least on the road. UND at home was the closest ISU-b came to a W so far this year. UND has the 1 nice win over an in-state rival, at home, followed by a dismantling @UNI which could be looked at as a let-down after the big win over a hated rival. But then the following week is a major struggle against a pretty weak team. So as clenz mentioned a while back, they won a game that really surprised people, but then followed with 2 stinkers that has people wondering, which is the real UND team. Was the NDSU game the outlier and the last 2 they are regressing back to their mean? I'm penciling in losses @USD and vs. Ill State and being on the outside looking in for UND at this point. And that's not bias. If anything, I'm a closet UND fan, growing up in Mandan. My dad pitched for them back in the day and I'm still a huge supporter of the hockey program. I would very likely be a UND alum if my parents hadn't moved me to MT in my junior year of HS which caused me to lose ND residency and gain MT residency.

In the 80’s a lot of Montana kids came to UND as it was cheaper. Sioux Hockey is looking good!


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[robsnotes4u]

I don't have a dog in this portion of the debate but to put a UNI spin on it because it has to be all about me...:D

Montana made a change at QB to Clifton saved their season and made them near unstoppable? Has it or has the schedule been nice and Montana got a similar result to UND against NDSU?

It wasn't Vidlak that managed to get a killer 1 score win over Idaho State at home. A win is a win just as UNI's win vs ISUb is a win. But UNI named their score on Idaho State in Idaho. Clifton went 13-20 for 160 yards to get a 28-20 win. He as a sub 60% competion rate.

Is he a better fit and does he allow Montana to do more things on offense? Yes. No doubt but he has also faced

1-7 Idaho State - 8 point win - 222 total yards of offense created
4-4 Davis - 8 point win - 270 total yards of offense created
6-2 Idaho - 2 points win and was a great win - he was 11-18 for 176 with 38 yards rushing - 214 total yards of offense created
0-8 Northern Colorado - 151 yards of offense created and was 7-14 passing. Looks like someone else had more passing attempts, I'm assuming score related and he was pulled, and it wasn't injury or performance related.

Looks like he really only led 1 scoring drive against Idaho, which was capped by an 8 yard TD run and a WR broke a 76 yard TD run after catch on another - which means the rest of the game he was 10-17 for 98 yards.

I get stats don't tell the full story, and it's clear Montana is playing better. I'm not going to say they are bad or anything near it. Thought I don't fault anyone for still having questions. Their "style points", which is where rankings get a lot of their push from traditionally, isn't great. 15 points over a bad PFL team, did beat up on a horrible Utah Tech, struggled with a D2, 8 point win over 1 win Idaho State, 8 point win over 9th place Davis, and then UNC being bad got what UNC deserves. But there is also that Idaho win, on the road at that.

Montana is a conundrum to me, from my limited non-voting research. You have all the the reason to actually doubt them and question if they are as good as their record based on strength of record, BUT they are winning and did pass the one actual test they had. So, credit where it's due for them at this point. Beat Sac State this weekend and any questions should go away.

Great post


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[POD Knows]

In the 80’s a lot of Montana kids came to UND as it was cheaper. Sioux Hockey is looking good!


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One Natty since they built the Ralph. They are the most underperforming and overrated hockey program in D1. They have EVERY possible advantage and don’t seem to be getting it done since the Vegas blood money rolled in there.

[smilo]

That is ONE data point...one. I know it is not a SWAC, but Morgan State (near bottom of MEAC, at least in overall record) beat Richmond (who, BTW, AGS voters are ranking...see top 30). Since best of MEAC plays SWAC, I am using this as somewhat equivalent. Also, Hampton beat Richmond (worse than they beat Grambling, so...).

Oh, and it wasn't really. Just wanted to point out that preconceived notions about a conference do not necessarily make that conference good (or bad) in any one given year.


Zero problem with your ballot - respect your take, even though I do believe Albany is quite good and Nova is 'mid' and probably a tad overrated due to their results. I do believe the MVFC is getting a bad rap by beating each other, and may indeed be better than all of the CAA and SoCon, minus Furman (and especially better than Incarnate Word).

But this post is laughably naive or disingenuous. Morgan State is clearly a respectable football program that lost to an FBS team by 3 and two of your ranked teams by 6. Despite drawing three road games against the similarly mediocre teams in their conference, they still have a very good chance to finish 2nd or 3rd. You cannot unironically be taking record from severely unbalanced schedules. You are the one rejecting an amalgamation of data points in favor of a single data point.

The SWAC has four of the five worst full scholarship conferences in D1 (non-Pioneer/NEC) and 7 of the bottom 20. The 8th worst team has a bad D2 loss. Basically, every team would go 0-8, 1-7, maaaaaaybe with a lucky draw 2-6 except Jackson State (probably 3-5) and FAMU.

The CAA is bad, but the difference between most of your teams being ranked 30-60 in the sub-division vs. 100-120 is not remotely comparable - your eyes are off if you think the CAA is closer to the SWAC than to the MVFC. The 2023 CAA is going to be whacked in the playoffs (again), but you can't begin to imagine the fight that FAMU and co would put up.

Rank FAMU 25 over Nova, not a big deal and clearly supportable. But your defense of it is clearly based on a false premise.

[nodak651]

Highest bidder doesn't automatically win, depends on how many butts can be put in seats to make money off ticket sales.

This is known.

Weber budgeted 6,082 in attendance and $117,120 in ticket revenue. Guaranteed $41,683 to NCAA
UND budgeted 9,250 in attendance and $251,250 in ticket revenue. Guaranteed $127,500 to NCAA
Weber's actual attendance was 4,495 which means they didn't send the NCAA a penny more than their already low guarantee of $41,683.

Don't give the Thanksgiving excuse either, because UND drew 11,470 for it's hockey game vs Bemidji that same evening.

14:40 Patty Viverito straight up called NDSU's athletic director incompetent for allowing UND to be sent to Weber.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-youngstown-penguin-footbal-116925821/episode/conference-commissioner-patty-viverito-joins-the-119278173/

[mvemjsunpx]

I don't have a dog in this portion of the debate but to put a UNI spin on it because it has to be all about me...:D

Montana made a change at QB to Clifton saved their season and made them near unstoppable? Has it or has the schedule been nice and Montana got a similar result to UND against NDSU?

It wasn't Vidlak that managed to get a killer 1 score win over Idaho State at home. A win is a win just as UNI's win vs ISUb is a win. But UNI named their score on Idaho State in Idaho. Clifton went 13-20 for 160 yards to get a 28-20 win. He as a sub 60% competion rate.

Is he a better fit and does he allow Montana to do more things on offense? Yes. No doubt but he has also faced

1-7 Idaho State - 8 point win - 222 total yards of offense created
4-4 Davis - 8 point win - 270 total yards of offense created
6-2 Idaho - 2 points win and was a great win - he was 11-18 for 176 with 38 yards rushing - 214 total yards of offense created
0-8 Northern Colorado - 151 yards of offense created and was 7-14 passing. Looks like someone else had more passing attempts, I'm assuming score related and he was pulled, and it wasn't injury or performance related.

Looks like he really only led 1 scoring drive against Idaho, which was capped by an 8 yard TD run and a WR broke a 76 yard TD run after catch on another - which means the rest of the game he was 10-17 for 98 yards.

I get stats don't tell the full story, and it's clear Montana is playing better. I'm not going to say they are bad or anything near it. Thought I don't fault anyone for still having questions. Their "style points", which is where rankings get a lot of their push from traditionally, isn't great. 15 points over a bad PFL team, did beat up on a horrible Utah Tech, struggled with a D2, 8 point win over 1 win Idaho State, 8 point win over 9th place Davis, and then UNC being bad got what UNC deserves. But there is also that Idaho win, on the road at that.

Montana is a conundrum to me, from my limited non-voting research. You have all the the reason to actually doubt them and question if they are as good as their record based on strength of record, BUT they are winning and did pass the one actual test they had. So, credit where it's due for them at this point. Beat Sac State this weekend and any questions should go away.

The other QB is Keali'i Ah Yat, son of Griz 1996-98 starting QB Brian Ah Yat. Ah Yat's a true freshman, and—with the new rule about playoff games not counting toward the 4 free games for redshirting freshmen—he was worked in intermittently with McDowell since there's no longer a possible penalty for doing so. Some posts on eGriz have said that he's effectively passed Vidlak & Brown on the depth chart, as well (Vidlak came in for the kneeldowns, but nothing else). McDowell also took a few unnecessary sacks early, which may be why Ah Yat first came in when he did. Ah Yat looked decent, but NoCo also had no pass rush whatsoever so he didn't exactly face a difficult situation.

It's an interesting matchup with Sac State this week since they also put in a freshman QB that had never played before when they beat ISU. That guy threw for 235 and 3 TDs on just 21 attempts.

[mvemjsunpx]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. South Dakota St. (1)
2. Idaho (6)
3. Furman (4)
4. Delaware (5)
5. Southern Illinois (9)
6. Albany (7)
7. Montana St. (2)
8. South Dakota (3)
9. Montana (10)
10. Villanova (12)
11. Sacramento St. (17)
12. Youngstown St. (13)
13. North Dakota St. (11)
14. Lafayette (14)
15. NC Central (16)
16. Austin Peay (20)
17. Western Carolina (8)
18. Harvard (23)
19. Holy Cross (24)
20. Tennessee-Martin (15)
21. Northern Iowa (25)
22. Incarnate Word (21)
23. Florida A&M (22)
24. Eastern Kentucky (NR)
25. Tennessee-Chattanooga (NR)

Dropped - Central Arkansas (18), New Hampshire (19)


W - South Dakota St.
L - Central Arkansas

[robsnotes4u]

One Natty since they built the Ralph. They are the most underperforming and overrated hockey program in D1. They have EVERY possible advantage and don’t seem to be getting it done since the Vegas blood money rolled in there.

The money was coming in from Raplh in the 80s, my college days when the they named the old arena Englestad. Nice try. Now talk football


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[POD Knows]

The money was coming in from Raplh in the 80s, my college days when the they named the old arena Englestad. Nice try. Now talk football


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Lmao. That was petty cash dude. It is a fact that UND has won one Natty since the opulence of the new Ralph was built. The place is cursed. 😄. I wasn’t the one that brought up hockey in this thread but that comment was a compliment so you let it slide. Anyway back to football.

[F'N Hawks]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. South Dakota St. (1)
2. Idaho (6)
3. Furman (4)
4. Delaware (5)
5. Southern Illinois (9)
6. Albany (7)
7. Montana St. (2)
8. South Dakota (3)
9. Montana (10)
10. Villanova (12)
11. Sacramento St. (17)
12. Youngstown St. (13)
13. North Dakota St. (11)
14. Lafayette (14)
15. NC Central (16)
16. Austin Peay (20)
17. Western Carolina (8)
18. Harvard (23)
19. Holy Cross (24)
20. Tennessee-Martin (15)
21. Northern Iowa (25)
22. Incarnate Word (21)
23. Florida A&M (22)
24. Eastern Kentucky (NR)
25. Tennessee-Chattanooga (NR)

Dropped - Central Arkansas (18), New Hampshire (19)


W - South Dakota St.
L - Central Arkansas

Tough crowd

[clenz]

Also, Idaho State is 3-5 and 3-3 vs. FCS, not sure where you're getting 1-7. They aren't your typical Bungles team and UNI should definitely be getting more credit for boatracing them. Idaho State may even end up above .500 vs. FCS opponents if they can hold serve at home against BBQ and Davis (they aren't beating UI in Moscow...). I do kinda want to see them thump the Grills just for the ISU-o>WSU>UNI>ISU-o circle it would create.
Fair enough on the record. They were 1-4 as of the Montana game, and I'll admit I was too lazy to go look at who they played and how it went after that. I watched them play UNI and parts of their other games through Montana. I made an assumption because it's Idaho State. I was wrong, but my larger point stands.

I do still have to "take issue" with the idea that this isn't your "typical Idaho State team". That's like a MVFC team trying to say "WIU or ISUb won a couple games, so they aren't your normal Trees or Necks". Sure, but they still are bad. Their wins are
0-8 Northern Colorado
3-5 EWU
3-4 against D1 Portland State who has all of their games against teams at least 2 games under .500

I tend to point this point every year when looking at the strength of record and strength of victory with the Big Sky because of how large their conference is and how they set their schedules up. The top teams rarely play other top teams, or at most 2 of them. So they get to go "We beat this top team" to boost the resume. Then they beat up on the bottom of the league, while going "But these bottom teams had 4 or 5 wins" and you look at those 4 or 5 wins and it's just a gigantic circle of the bottom 5 teams all beating each other.

It largely can come down to semantics, but if I'm going to be consistent, I need to point out that teams that are getting passes - or even credit - for struggling with bad teams because it was "early" while others don't get that same benefit. Montana seems to be one of them, though I've already stated the Idaho wins offsets a decent amount of that.

[MSUBobcat]

One Natty since they built the Ralph. They are the most underperforming and overrated hockey program in D1. They have EVERY possible advantage and don’t seem to be getting it done since the Vegas blood money rolled in there.

Not to derail the thread, but the most underperforming hockey program in D1 is Michigan and it's not even close. They do less with the most talent than any other program, with their last chipper being in 1998 even though they are consistently stacked with first round draft picks. Minny is a close 2nd over the last 20 years, but not necessarily since the Ralph opened in 2001 (2 championships to 1, though I firmly believe they would have won in 2020 if the season hadn't been cancelled, having an insane 26-5-4 record). They also won in 2000, so the opening of the Ralph is a very arbitrary cutoff.

Now back to your regularly scheduled FCS football programming.

[nodak651]

The argument for games not mattering as much at the beginning of the season as the end really gets to me. The season only has 11 games and all of the non conference games are at the beginning of the season. The sample size is already small enough as it is. Why devalue any game when it counts equally towards the W-L record? Not every team has the fan base or media to assign an asterisk to any particular game either. Wins and losses should matter equally no matter when they are played and rankings should be made based on resume. It's not a power ranking.

In regard to hockey talk. It's also important to note that the parity and the "chance" in hockey means that the best teams don't always win. Evidence is Providence, Yale, and Union winning their national championships recently and the multiple first round losses by #1 seeds. UND made it and lost in 8 frozen fours between their 2001 and 2016 championships. That was an unprecedented run and not winning in 8 straight appearances is pretty crazy as well. Had there been a best of 3 or 5 or 7 series like in college baseball, the results would likely have been much different. Nowhere near as predictable as football.

[MSUBobcat]

Fair enough on the record. They were 1-4 as of the Montana game, and I'll admit I was too lazy to go look at who they played and how it went after that. I watched them play UNI and parts of their other games through Montana. I made an assumption because it's Idaho State. I was wrong, but my larger point stands.

I do still have to "take issue" with the idea that this isn't your "typical Idaho State team". That's like a MVFC team trying to say "WIU or ISUb won a couple games, so they aren't your normal Trees or Necks". Sure, but they still are bad. Their wins are
0-8 Northern Colorado
3-5 EWU
3-4 against D1 Portland State who has all of their games against teams at least 2 games under .500

I tend to point this point every year when looking at the strength of record and strength of victory with the Big Sky because of how large their conference is and how they set their schedules up. The top teams rarely play other top teams, or at most 2 of them. So they get to go "We beat this top team" to boost the resume. Then they beat up on the bottom of the league, while going "But these bottom teams had 4 or 5 wins" and you look at those 4 or 5 wins and it's just a gigantic circle of the bottom 5 teams all beating each other.

It largely can come down to semantics, but if I'm going to be consistent, I need to point out that teams that are getting passes - or even credit - for struggling with bad teams because it was "early" while others don't get that same benefit. Montana seems to be one of them, though I've already stated the Idaho wins offsets a decent amount of that.

I didn't say the Bungles were GOOD, but the typical ISU team of recent years is TERRIBLE. Yes, they beat a really bad NoCo team. But they also beat EWU and PSU teams that at least beat BBQ xsmiley_wix (had to).

Also.... isn't the MVFC the exact same size as the Big Sky (12 teams) this year? Both have a pretty poor bottom of the conference (UNI got 3 of the 4 bottom feeders). This year, the middle of the Big Sky isn't as good as they have been in other years, with EWU, Weber and Davis taking a step back.

[POD Knows]

Not to derail the thread, but the most underperforming hockey program in D1 is Michigan and it's not even close. They do less with the most talent than any other program, with their last chipper being in 1998 even though they are consistently stacked with first round draft picks. Minny is a close 2nd over the last 20 years, but not necessarily since the Ralph opened in 2001 (2 championships to 1, though I firmly believe they would have won in 2020 if the season hadn't been cancelled, having an insane 26-5-4 record). They also won in 2000, so the opening of the Ralph is a very arbitrary cutoff.

Now back to your regularly scheduled FCS football programming.
Nope.

[MSUBobcat]

The argument for games not mattering as much at the beginning of the season as the end really gets to me. The season only has 11 games and all of the non conference games are at the beginning of the season. The sample size is already small enough as it is. Why devalue any game when it counts equally towards the W-L record? Not every team has the fan base or media to assign an asterisk to any particular game either. Wins and losses should matter equally no matter when they are played and rankings should be made based on resume. It's not a power ranking.

I don't think devalue is the correct term. The games all matter the same, but you learn more about the teams from early on as the season progresses. For instance, I would assert that UNI's loss to Weber is hurting them in the current polls much more than back when it happened. People thought they would be the Weber of previous years when we come to find out that they are a far cry from the 10-3 team from last year. Good wins turn to meh wins, or vice versa. Bad losses turn to okay losses, and vice versa.

Another factor as the season progresses is teams do improve or regress, in reality or perception (this may be the "devaluing" you are referencing). It is reasonable to look at how 2 teams are playing NOW and say team A is better than team B, even though team B has the H2H victory earlier in the season (see current poll for examples, including NDSU ranked higher than your Hawks).

- - - Updated - - -


Nope.

Good post....

[clenz]

I didn't say the Bungles were GOOD, but the typical ISU team of recent years is TERRIBLE. Yes, they beat a really bad NoCo team. But they also beat EWU and PSU teams that at least beat BBQ xsmiley_wix (had to).

Also.... isn't the MVFC the exact same size as the Big Sky (12 teams) this year? Both have a pretty poor bottom of the conference (UNI got 3 of the 4 bottom feeders). This year, the middle of the Big Sky isn't as good as they have been in other years, with EWU, Weber and Davis taking a step back.
I've said traditionally.

UNI does get 3 of the bottom four while schools like UND/USD get all 4 which gives them a record boost - and thus ratings boost - over UNI but that's not something I need to get into.

UNI also has the #1 SoS in Massey and it's not particularly close to second place.
You'll notice the majority of other teams at the top of the SoS are bottom half Big Sky teams becuase they get fed to the top half - NAU is 2, EWU 3, ISUO, 6, WSU 9, UNC 10

2022 UNI was 6th in SoS nationally - yet somehow was 5th in the Valley...and 3 other Valley schools were in the top 10. So 8 of the top 10 toughest schedules were Valley teams with all 11 Valley teams in the top 21.
2021 UNI was #2 in SOS - YSU was 1, SIU 3, WIU 4, SDSU 5, MOSU 7 UND 8 USD 9 ISUb10 ISUr12 NDSU 15...yep all 11 in the top 15
Skipping 2020 because covid makes it impossible to figure out
2019 UNI had the #1 SOS
2018 UNI had the #2 SOS
2017 UNI had the #3 SOS
2016 UNI had the #1 SOS
2015 UNI had the #3 SOS
2014 UNI had the #5 SOS
2013 UNI had the #8 SOS
2012 UNI had the #5 SOS
2011 UNI had the #4 SOS

There are plenty of teams to bag on about SOS and inflating records against bad teams. I'm not sure UNI is the team you want to take that argument up with.

[MSUBobcat]

I've said traditionally.

UNI does get 3 of the bottom four while schools like UND/USD get all 4 which gives them a record boost - and thus ratings boost - over UNI but that's not something I need to get into.

UNI also has the #1 SoS in Massey and it's not particularly close to second place.
You'll notice the majority of other teams at the top of the SoS are bottom half Big Sky teams becuase they get fed to the top half - NAU is 2, EWU 3, ISUO, 6, WSU 9, UNC 10

2022 UNI was 6th in SoS nationally - yet somehow was 5th in the Valley...and 3 other Valley schools were in the top 10. So 8 of the top 10 toughest schedules were Valley teams with all 11 Valley teams in the top 21.
2021 UNI was #2 in SOS - YSU was 1, SIU 3, WIU 4, SDSU 5, MOSU 7 UND 8 USD 9 ISUb10 ISUr12 NDSU 15...yep all 11 in the top 15
Skipping 2020 because covid makes it impossible to figure out
2019 UNI had the #1 SOS
2018 UNI had the #2 SOS
2017 UNI had the #3 SOS
2016 UNI had the #1 SOS
2015 UNI had the #3 SOS
2014 UNI had the #5 SOS
2013 UNI had the #8 SOS
2012 UNI had the #5 SOS
2011 UNI had the #4 SOS

There are plenty of teams to bag on about SOS and inflating records against bad teams. I'm not sure UNI is the team you want to take that argument up with.

I wasn't taking up a team-specific SOS argument as much as bringing up the fact that the conferences are the same (this year) or similar (other years) size. I even highlighted that portion of your comment that I was replying to. So your assertion about the Big Sky that "The top teams rarely play other top teams, or at most 2 of them. So they get to go "We beat this top team" to boost the resume. Then they beat up on the bottom of the league, while going "But these bottom teams had 4 or 5 wins" and you look at those 4 or 5 wins and it's just a gigantic circle of the bottom 5 teams all beating each other." applies about equally to both conferences. I just mentioned UNI's lower tier opponents because you're a UNI fan.

[BEAR]

I told you not to rank UCA. xlolx I've never seen a team as talented as those players continue to get coached by D2 coaches and their easy to figure out plays. Ugh. I quit posting on this site a looooong time ago because all I was saying was we were wasting talent and calling D2 type plays. I'm back on it and guess what....same thing. Small minded administration for game day activities and even smaller play calling coaches. Good guys but seriously not division I coaches. xcoffeex

[Preferred Walk-On]

Zero problem with your ballot - respect your take, even though I do believe Albany is quite good and Nova is 'mid' and probably a tad overrated due to their results. I do believe the MVFC is getting a bad rap by beating each other, and may indeed be better than all of the CAA and SoCon, minus Furman (and especially better than Incarnate Word).

But this post is laughably naive or disingenuous. Morgan State is clearly a respectable football program that lost to an FBS team by 3 and two of your ranked teams by 6. Despite drawing three road games against the similarly mediocre teams in their conference, they still have a very good chance to finish 2nd or 3rd. You cannot unironically be taking record from severely unbalanced schedules. You are the one rejecting an amalgamation of data points in favor of a single data point.

The SWAC has four of the five worst full scholarship conferences in D1 (non-Pioneer/NEC) and 7 of the bottom 20. The 8th worst team has a bad D2 loss. Basically, every team would go 0-8, 1-7, maaaaaaybe with a lucky draw 2-6 except Jackson State (probably 3-5) and FAMU.

The CAA is bad, but the difference between most of your teams being ranked 30-60 in the sub-division vs. 100-120 is not remotely comparable - your eyes are off if you think the CAA is closer to the SWAC than to the MVFC. The 2023 CAA is going to be whacked in the playoffs (again), but you can't begin to imagine the fight that FAMU and co would put up.

Rank FAMU 25 over Nova, not a big deal and clearly supportable. But your defense of it is clearly based on a false premise.

For the record, I don't think the SWAC is as competitive as the CAA. I just don't think you (or anyone else) can definitively say that Villanova waxes Florida A&M. That is all. Of course, UND waxed NDSU, and we still have the Bison ranked above them, so is the question "Do you think Team X would beat Team Y?" as justification for why Person A's vs. Person B's rankings are wrong at the 25th spot really the right question?

OK, I am now done talking about #25. Practice...We talkin' 'bout practice?

[mvemjsunpx]

Tough crowd

The NDSU win was great, but the rest of UND's resume isn't all that good… and the last couple weeks were pretty awful. They're lost in a sea of marginally good bubble teams right now, IMO.

[F'N Hawks]

The NDSU win was great, but the rest of UND's resume isn't all that good… and the last couple weeks were pretty awful. They're lost in a sea of marginally good bubble teams right now, IMO.

OK. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?

Yet, you have NDSU ranked #13. What impressed you about their resume?

[mvemjsunpx]

OK. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?

Yet, you have NDSU ranked #13. What impressed you about their resume?

NDSU's resume doesn't impress me that much, hence why they're only #13, but it's still at least a tier above UND's now. The Bison only have one bad performance (UND), convincingly beating UCA qualifies as a good win, and all their other wins are blowouts. UND has multiple iffy/bad performances, and recent momentum isn't in their favor since they've looked bad the last 2 weeks. I also think UND has to be behind UNI since they lost to UNI, their resume isn't any better than UNI's, and they don't have a common-opponent result to counter UNI's H2H advantage.

[SDFS]

NDSU's resume doesn't impress me that much, hence why they're only #13, but it's still at least a tier above UND's now. The Bison only have one bad performance (UND), convincingly beating UCA qualifies as a good win, and all their other wins are blowouts. UND has multiple iffy/bad performances, and recent momentum isn't in their favor since they've looked bad the last 2 weeks. I also think UND has to be behind UNI since they lost to UNI, their resume isn't any better than UNI's, and they don't have a common-opponent result to counter UNI's H2H advantage.

I think the next couple of weeks with straighten out the pretenders from contenders in the MVFC. But, I think you have SIU way too high, USD, YSU, NDSU no problems, maybe UNI a bit low. UND controls thier own destiny. They have three weeks to get it together.

#4 SIU best wins are #16 Austin Peavy and N. Ill
#8 USD best wins are #13 NDSU and #12 YSU
#12 YSU best wins are #4 SIU and NR Missouri St. NOTE: YSU boat raced SIU 31 to 3.
#13 NDSU best wins are UCA and EWU
#21 UNI best win are NR UND and #12 YSU
NR - UND best wins are #13 NDSU and NAU (Massey Rating 30).

FYI - you have Austin Peavy at #16 and they have not beaten a team with a winning record yet this year. Team records: ETSU 2-6, SFA 3-5 win by 2, Lidenwood 3-5, Gardner Webb 4-4, SUU 3-5 win by 3 in OT, North Alabama 3-6. The Massey Ratings for the wins - 63, 32, 52, 90, 48, 70.

[Houndawg]

I think the next couple of weeks with straighten out the pretenders from contenders in the MVFC. But, I think you have SIU way too high, USD, YSU, NDSU no problems, maybe UNI a bit low. UND controls thier own destiny. They have three weeks to get it together.

#4 SIU best wins are #16 Austin Peavy and N. Ill
#8 USD best wins are #13 NDSU and #12 YSU
#12 YSU best wins are #4 SIU and NR Missouri St. NOTE: YSU boat raced SIU 31 to 3.
#13 NDSU best wins are UCA and EWU
#21 UNI best win are NR UND and #12 YSU
NR - UND best wins are #13 NDSU and NAU (Massey Rating 30).

FYI - you have Austin Peavy at #16 and they have not beaten a team with a winning record yet this year. Team records: ETSU 2-6, SFA 3-5 win by 2, Lidenwood 3-5, Gardner Webb 4-4, SUU 3-5 win by 3 in OT, North Alabama 3-6. The Massey Ratings for the wins - 63, 32, 52, 90, 48, 70.

yep, total no-show by the Dawgs- either that or UND is going to have a big surprise for SDSU.

[ysubigred]

I think the next couple of weeks with straighten out the pretenders from contenders in the MVFC. But, I think you have SIU way too high, USD, YSU, NDSU no problems, maybe UNI a bit low. UND controls thier own destiny. They have three weeks to get it together.

#4 SIU best wins are #16 Austin Peavy and N. Ill
#8 USD best wins are #13 NDSU and #12 YSU
#12 YSU best wins are #4 SIU and NR Missouri St. NOTE: YSU boat raced SIU 31 to 3.
#13 NDSU best wins are UCA and EWU
#21 UNI best win are NR UND and #12 YSU
NR - UND best wins are #13 NDSU and NAU (Massey Rating 30).

FYI - you have Austin Peavy at #16 and they have not beaten a team with a winning record yet this year. Team records: ETSU 2-6, SFA 3-5 win by 2, Lidenwood 3-5, Gardner Webb 4-4, SUU 3-5 win by 3 in OT, North Alabama 3-6. The Massey Ratings for the wins - 63, 32, 52, 90, 48, 70.You missed #12 YSU beat #21 at the time ISU Red.

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[caribbeanhen]

1: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2: Furman Paladins
3: Montana Grizzlies
4: Idaho Vandals
5: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
6: Southern Illinois Salukis
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Sac State Hornets
9: South Dakota Coyotes
10: Harvard Crimson
11: Northern Iowa Panthers
12: North Carolina Central Eagles
13: Austin Peay Governors
14: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
15: North Dakota State Bison
16: Chattanooga Mocs
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: Western Carolina Catamounts
19: Incarnate Word Cardinals
20: Lafayette Leopards
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Villanova Wildcats
23: Youngstown State Penguins
24: Holy Cross Crusaders
25: Mercer Bears

Caribbeanhen