NIL Legislation Dashed Because of desire to remove HBCUs from Div-1???

[WestCoastAggie]

https://hbcusports.com/2023/10/19/potential-nil-bill-negotiations-fell-apart-after-senate-committee-members-wanted-to-jettison-hbcus/


But a potential deal fell apart when, according to Cantwell, “a lot of people wanted to jettison the HBCUs from Division I.”“We didn’t think that was such a good idea,” Cantwell said. “And we weren’t for that for a bunch of different reasons. And so the negotiations fell apart over that issue.”
Cantwell, however, didn’t explain why some members wanted to drop HBCUs as it related to NIL legislation.




xcoffeex

[ElCid]

https://hbcusports.com/2023/10/19/potential-nil-bill-negotiations-fell-apart-after-senate-committee-members-wanted-to-jettison-hbcus/



xcoffeex

The issue may have come up for HBCUs, for whatever reason, but the same can be said of dozens of other non-HBCU schools. The impact of called student athletes employees would impact most schools without a billion dollar endowment.

[WestCoastAggie]

The issue may have come up for HBCUs, for whatever reason, but the same can be said of dozens of other non-HBCU schools. The impact of called student athletes employees would impact most schools without a billion dollar endowment.

Agreed. This is an issue where I can see both sides having compelling points and a decision either way will have unintended consequences.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://twitter.com/HBCUSports/status/1715079204344152558

[Bisonoline]

https://hbcusports.com/2023/10/19/potential-nil-bill-negotiations-fell-apart-after-senate-committee-members-wanted-to-jettison-hbcus/



xcoffeex

Thats interesting. Another example of those that have dont want the same for others even thou its feasible. Any legislation should be for the betterment and protection of the student athlete.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/heres-one-compromise-nil-bill-never-happened



The staffers told me that the previous bill discussions included “requirements that Division I schools provide a baseline of health, safety, and scholarship protections for college athletes”, not too dissimilar from the work of the NCAA Transformation Committee. Those requirements, which would have included provisions like expanded health care post-eligibility, would have increased costs, and many lower-resourced D-I schools, including HBCUs, would not have been able to afford those costs.


The staffers told me that Sen. Cantwell and other Democrats examined various ways that larger budget institutions would subsidize those expenses for lower-resourced schools (potentially at the NCAA, conference, or school level). But “the SEC indicated they would not support that idea”, and given that many lawmakers didn’t want to directly oppose the SEC, the bill ultimately fell apart.

[ElCid]

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/heres-one-compromise-nil-bill-never-happened

Well I kind of have to agree with the SEC. And at least they clarified that is wasn't "just" HBCUs, but a bunch of lower resources schools. They were just using the HBCUs as the poster children for a much much bigger problem. This type of political action, and it is purely political as the government feels like they need to be involved, is a recipe for political intrigue. If I was the SEC I would have said no as well. That's like asking Microsoft to subsidize Joe's startup software company by paying his employee's health insurance. Never going to happen. I'm not sure this was ever a very serious initiative. It sounds like theater for consumption by the constituent masses more than anything.

[McCowboys]

Well I kind of have to agree with the SEC. And at least they clarified that is wasn't "just" HBCUs, but a bunch of lower resources schools. They were just using the HBCUs as the poster children for a much much bigger problem. This type of political action, and it is purely political as the government feels like they need to be involved, is a recipe for political intrigue. If I was the SEC I would have said no as well. That's like asking Microsoft to subsidize Joe's startup software company by paying his employee's health insurance. Never going to happen. I'm not sure this was ever a very serious initiative. It sounds like theater for consumption by the constituent masses more than anything.

Give me Name Image and Likeness, and I'll ask for the moon!

[DFW HOYA]

This is bigger than the HBCU's. As much as a quarter of Division I is comprised of new or severely underfunded programs (Chicago State, Purdue-Ft. Wayne, UMass-Lowell, Green Bay, Coppin St., etc.) who are asking to be subsidized for Division I membership. Division I wasn't meant for everyone, but now people think that it is.

[POD Knows]

This is bigger than the HBCU's. As much as a quarter of Division I is comprised of new or severely underfunded programs (Chicago State, Purdue-Ft. Wayne, UMass-Lowell, Green Bay, Coppin St., etc.) who are asking to be subsidized for Division I membership. Division I wasn't meant for everyone, but now people think that it is.
This is balls on.

[SDFS]

This is bigger than the HBCU's. As much as a quarter of Division I is comprised of new or severely underfunded programs (Chicago State, Purdue-Ft. Wayne, UMass-Lowell, Green Bay, Coppin St., etc.) who are asking to be subsidized for Division I membership. Division I wasn't meant for everyone, but now people think that it is.

Exactly, if you cannot support the requirements of the division then you should not be in the Division. There are other solutions, they can move to Division II or Division III. And this impacts far more schools than just the HBCU's.

[caribbeanhen]

This is bigger than the HBCU's. As much as a quarter of Division I is comprised of new or severely underfunded programs (Chicago State, Purdue-Ft. Wayne, UMass-Lowell, Green Bay, Coppin St., etc.) who are asking to be subsidized for Division I membership. Division I wasn't meant for everyone, but now people think that it is.

Just like college is not for everyone, but they tell ya you just have to go …

[DFW HOYA]

Mississippi Valley State is trying to run a full Division I athletic department on $4,040,915 a year. Howard spends more money on football alone.

[WestCoastAggie]

So what should the budget floor be for Division 1 athletics? Should these expanded protections apply to just D1 athletes or apply to FBS?

[taper]

Mississippi Valley State is trying to run a full Division I athletic department on $4,040,915 a year. Howard spends more money on football alone.
$4M would only pay Nick Saban's salary for four months. There are a lot of schools that aren't in the division that's most appropriate for them.

[JacksFan40]

This is bigger than the HBCU's. As much as a quarter of Division I is comprised of new or severely underfunded programs (Chicago State, Purdue-Ft. Wayne, UMass-Lowell, Green Bay, Coppin St., etc.) who are asking to be subsidized for Division I membership. Division I wasn't meant for everyone, but now people think that it is.
The best thing that can happen is schools that shouldn't be D1 get sent to the level that is appropriate for them. It's not Alabama's responsibility to fund athletics for schools who can't do it themselves. Of those schools you listed, have any of them had any serious success in D1? I remember IPFW had a solid stretch of years in basketball, but nothing special.

[JacksFan40]

So what should the budget floor be for Division 1 athletics? Should these expanded protections apply to just D1 athletes or apply to FBS?

Is there some sort of budget requirement for D1? I would imagine there is, but I guess I'm not sure. The NCAA should set a budget minimum for membership in D1, and if a school cannot reach it after so many years they should be pushed down to D2.

[DFW HOYA]

The $4 million figure for MVSU is apparently overstated. See page 10 of its 2021-22 financial statements...

$2,884,874.

https://www.mvsu.edu/sites/default/files/financial_report_2021-2022.pdf

[UAalum72]

Is there some sort of budget requirement for D1? I would imagine there is, but I guess I'm not sure. The NCAA should set a budget minimum for membership in D1, and if a school cannot reach it after so many years they should be pushed down to D2.
There’s a minimum number of sponsored sports and scholarships but I don’t think there’s a dollar amount.

[kdinva]

The $4 million figure for MVSU is apparently overstated. See page 10 of its 2021-22 financial statements...

$2,884,874.

https://www.mvsu.edu/sites/default/files/financial_report_2021-2022.pdf

Paging Jerry Rice......... to lead a campaign.

[taper]

There’s a minimum number is sponsored sports and scholarships but I don’t think there’s a dollar amount.
FBS football is the only sport with scholarship minimums. Ivy gives 0 athletic scholarships in total and is D1.

[UAalum72]

FBS football is the only sport with scholarship minimums. Ivy gives 0 athletic scholarships in total and is D1.
OK, not scholarships but "institutional financial assistance", and there are dollar amounts. I had to look it up

20.10.3.2 Minimum Awards. A member of Division I that is not a member of the Football Bowl Subdivision (for FBS
financial aid requirements, see Bylaw 20.10.9.4) shall provide institutional financial assistance that equals one of the
following: (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 9/1/94, 1/10/95, 1/9/96, 1/14/97 effective 9/1/97, 4/15/97 effective 8/1/98, 10/27/98
effective 8/1/99, 4/13/99, 4/11/00, 4/10/01, 8/14/02, 4/28/05, 4/27/06, 6/11/07, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08, 8/7/14, 10/4/17,
10/4/23)
(a) A minimum of 50 percent of the maximum allowable grants in 14 sports, at least seven of which must be women's
sports. If an institution uses indoor track and field, outdoor track and field and cross country to meet the financial aid
criterion, it must award the equivalent of at least 80 percent of the full grants for men and 80 percent of the full grants
for women in those sports. If the institution counts two of those three sports to meet the financial aid criterion, it must
award the equivalent of at least 70 percent of the full grants for men and 70 percent of the full grants for women. If the
institution counts indoor and outdoor track and field as one sport, it must award the equivalent of at least 50 percent
of the full grants for men and 50 percent of the full grants for women;
(b) Financial aid representing a minimum aggregate expenditure of $1,799,140 in 2022-23 (with at least $899,571 in
women’s sports) and $1,835,123 (with at least $917,562 in women’s sports) exclusive of grants in football and men's
and women's basketball, provided the aggregate grant value is not less than the equivalent of 38 full grants, with at least
19 full grants for women. The Strategic Vision and Planning Committee shall adjust the minimum aggregate figure
annually to reflect inflation, based on changes in average national tuition charges for regionally accredited institutions.
The committee shall announce the revised figure in the fall each year for the following academic year. If the institution
does not sponsor men's or women's basketball, the minimum aggregate expenditure must be $1,187,801 in 2022-23
and $1,211,557 in 2023-24 for the gender without the basketball program, but in no case fewer than the equivalent of
29 full grants for that gender;
(c) A minimum of the equivalent of 50 full grants (at least 25 full grants in women's sports), exclusive of grants awarded in
football and men's and women's basketball. If the member institution does not provide men's or women's basketball, it
shall sponsor a minimum of 35 full grants in the sports program for the gender without the basketball program; or
(d) A minimum of one-half of the required grants or aggregate expenditures cited in (a), (b) or (c) above, for institutions
that depend on exceptional amounts of federal assistance to meet students' financial needs. This provision shall be
applicable to an institution in a given year if the average per-student allotment of Pell Grant dollars for undergraduates
reported to the U.S. Department of Education the previous September is more than one standard deviation above the
mean for all reporting Division I member institutions that year. If an institution does not qualify under this provision
after having been able to do so the previous year, the institution may continue to use this alternative for one year and
shall not be required to meet the provisions of (a), (b) or (c) above until the following year. This provision shall be
applicable only to institutions that were members of Division I on September 1, 1990.

[uni88]

The best thing that can happen is schools that shouldn't be D1 get sent to the level that is appropriate for them. It's not Alabama's responsibility to fund athletics for schools who can't do it themselves. Of those schools you listed, have any of them had any serious success in D1? I remember IPFW had a solid stretch of years in basketball, but nothing special.

Green Bay has been more successful than IPFW. 5 trips to the NCAA Tournament including a 1st round upset. Dick Bennett got his Div 1 coaching start there including coaching his son Tony (now the head coach at Virginia) before moving on to Wisconsin.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/VQprzwdON74qJzEAyE1tmw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTI0MDA7aD0yMzcwO2NmPXdlYn A-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/green-bay-press-gazette/74727e699f91e5ea7895711d937f4f8e

[aceinthehole]

As a supporter of a low resource, non-HBCU school, I do think the NCAA should look at a luxury tax like MLB and revenue sharing model like the NFL.

We already, get revenue sharing from the NCAA MBB Tourney and I would like to see the formula tweaked to provide more funding to lower revenue programs.

And I have no issue that Ohio State can spend as much as they want. But this is also supposed to competitive athletic. I would like to explore proposals for a "luxury tax" on certain types of athletic spending above a certain amount.

The major would still have an advantage as facilities and salaries could be exempt from the formula, but set a luxury tax for certain operating costs and NIL, etc.

[ElCid]

There’s a minimum number of sponsored sports and scholarships but I don’t think there’s a dollar amount.

And there shouldn't be a $ limit. Some schools are more frugal than others. Everyone always equates money with success. They sometimes coincide, maybe more often than not, but it isn't guaranteed either way. Attaching a dollar sign to membership is a real bad idea. Requiring a minimum number of sports, sure. But lots of people and organizations in all sorts of activities succeed with minimal outlays. Football is no different.

[Bisonoline]

As a supporter of a low resource, non-HBCU school, I do think the NCAA should look at a luxury tax like MLB and revenue sharing model like the NFL.

We already, get revenue sharing from the NCAA MBB Tourney and I would like to see the formula tweaked to provide more funding to lower revenue programs.

And I have no issue that Ohio State can spend as much as they want. But this is also supposed to competitive athletic. I would like to explore proposals for a "luxury tax" on certain types of athletic spending above a certain amount.

The major would still have an advantage as facilities and salaries could be exempt from the formula, but set a luxury tax for certain operating costs and NIL, etc.

If they were compelled to direct money to the less fortunate programs I would want the money going to athletes insurance and healthcare.