Valpo staying away from scholarship I-AAs

[henfan]

Valparaiso director of athletics Mark LaBarbera said the Crusaders’ football team likely will no longer play Division I-AA scholarship teams...

LaBarbera said the I-AA scholarship teams are too big, quick and talented for the Crusaders, who do not offer scholarships. He said the Crusaders were pondering placing 1-AA scholarship teams on their 2006 schedule, but LaBarbera said the two big losses have changed his mind.

http://home.socal.rr.com/coder/crybaby.jpg

http://www.post-trib.com/cgi-bin/pto-story/sports/z1/09-13-05_z1_spor_05.html

[NoCoDanny]

They should be in D III

[Hansel]

looks like a pair of Dakota beatdowns was more than they could take ;)

[89rabbit]

Highlights from a NW Indiana Times story:

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2005/09/11/sports/college_sports/bfd413d25af961248625707900138dff.txt

Crusaders crushed in South Dakota

Times Staff Report

COLLEGE FOOTBALL

South Dakota State 69, Valparaiso 6


BROOKINGS, S.D. | Stepping up a couple notches in competition historically hasn't been a good idea for Valparaiso.

The Division I-AA non-scholarship Crusaders left town at 5:30 a.m. Saturday to travel to South Dakota State, a former Division II power now making the transition to full-scholarship I-AA.

By halftime, the Crusaders were ready to turn around and come back.

The Jackrabbits racked up a 45-6 halftime advantage on their way to a 69-6 victory. . . . (read more)

[henfan]

This attitude is one of the elements that really irks me about the I-AA classification. I totally understand the desire to control FB costs, while maintaining a D-I AD; however, cost containment has got to be tempered with some common sense.

If a school decides that the D-I classification suits its institutional mission- and that it's quite a broad classification as it is- it should feel compelled to at least make an honest effort to be a good citizen by competing with other members of the division.

If a school chooses not to do that for competitive or financial reasons, maybe it's time to re-evaluate its D-I classification. Instead, there seems to be a willingness for schools like Valpo to extract FB from the context of its entire AD and treat the sport differently. Of course, the NCAA could fix this by amending D-I Bylaws but they just aren't interested.

[89Hen]

Agreed henfan. Even though I don't really like 'em, them are the rules, either live by them or change your athletic agenda.

[Ivytalk]

Agreed henfan. Even though I don't really like 'em, them are the rules, either live by them or change your athletic agenda.

Ditto for me.

Jeez, Valpo is a basketball school anyway. Who'd miss 'em?

[henfan]

Oh yeah, no doubt. It appears to be all about hoops for Valpo, which is fine, however... If there's little institutional commitment towards FB, why not just eliminate sponsorship altogether and re-classify the AD as I-AAA? If there's some interest in FB and a D-I AD is still desired, offer FB as a club sport.

[Stang Fever]

i hate the fact that there is this I-AA non scholarship crap....That is DIII ball all the way...Just drop the sport...what are you competing for..Mid Major National Champ...LOL i would respect you more if you won the DIII title year in and year out....I am willing the bet that the best DIII team can beat the best Mid Major (or at least make it a game) cause come on whats the difference

[rcny46]

i hate the fact that there is this I-AA non scholarship crap....That is DIII ball all the way...Just drop the sport...what are you competing for..Mid Major National Champ...LOL i would respect you more if you won the DIII title year in and year out....I am willing the bet that the best DIII team can beat the best Mid Major (or at least make it a game) cause come on whats the difference


AMEN!

[Marcus Garvey]

Valpo can't be D-III because of NCAA rules that require basketball and football to both be D-I (I-A or I-AA for football).

As for "club" football... Club football is dying faster than D-II. Because it's not sponsored by the school, the players are on their own for health insurance. This is true of all club sports, but football injuries tend to be more severe than other sports. Football is particularly tough to sponsor on the club level because of the high costs of equipment and facilities. Also, there are liability issues. The school may not sponsor the team as an NCAA sport, but club teams are still affiliated with some department of the school (Student Activities or something like that). That means the school has to take on some sort of liability. In our lawsuit happy society, that makes club football a hot potato.

[Stang Fever]

i know the rule...but that doesnt mean i agree or like it

[henfan]

Oh please do not wish football being cut. Siena Alums can't even get their school to let them have a club team now.

I wouldn't and didn't wish that at all for any school. If anything, I'd prefer that Valpo act like their I-AA brethren by supporting FB to a greater degree and playing I-AA counterparts of all stripes.

I'm just not certain I understand the philosophy of a school who chooses to compete with D-I schools for Olympic but desires to isolate its FB program from D-I competition. Makes no sense at all. Guess that was the point of my original & subsequent posts.

[catamount man]

Any reason WHY Valpo doesn't offer scholarships? GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[bkrownd]

i hate the fact that there is this I-AA non scholarship crap....That is DIII ball all the way...Just drop the sport...what are you competing for..

What a bunch of arrogant crap. Who are you to say who can play ball and how they have to do it? As far as I'm concerned anybody who wants to field a team should be proud to put on the uniform and give it all they've got. "What are they competing for?" For the thrill of being able to do so, I'd imagine. :bang:

Just for that I'm changing my helmet to Valpo for a week. :cool:

[bkrownd]

As for "club" football... Club football is dying faster than D-II. Because it's not sponsored by the school, the players are on their own for health insurance. This is true of all club sports...

Club lacrosse is thriving. The club leagues are bigger than the NCAA, and many of them compete well against NCAA teams. Of course the lack of opportunity due to Title IX and bloated football programs is what makes it possible. Fun to watch them, all the same. As far as club football...I'd go for rugby, myself.

[blukeys]

The problem was caused by the NCAA when they required these schools to compete in D-I in football if they wanted to play D-I basketball. Dayton was perfectly happy to win D-III championships and still play D-I basketball. I still feel this is the better strategy. They are not offering any equivalencies yet are in the same category as schools offering 63. This is a much wider range than one sees in any other division I-A, D-II, or D-III.

I don't want to see any school drop football. But we are stuck with a situation where schools are basically competing at the D-III level and they are labeled I-AA. The solution would be scolly/equivalency standards for I-AA and removing the basketball - football lingkage for D-I. But the NCAA is either unwilling or unable to enforce minimal attendance standards for I-A. Does anyone think they are going to re think standards for I-AA?

For now I-AA is the dumping grounds for schools who want to play basketball at the highest level and still have a football team at the lowest cost. From all I have read the politics of the situation will not change. This is sad as most of these football players would be able to compete for a NC at the D-III level where these schools were not so long ago.

[blukeys]

Club lacrosse is thriving. The club leagues are bigger than the NCAA, and many of them compete well against NCAA teams. Of course the lack of opportunity due to Title IX and bloated football programs is what makes it possible. Fun to watch them, all the same. As far as club football...I'd go for rugby, myself.

Agree totally. UD has some excellent club teams and we already sponsor 23 varsity teams. Our club hockey team is typically nationally ranked, we have a solid men's volleyball club team. What truly irks me though is Title IX cost us a proud though probably not significant wrestling team. UD hosts the Beast of the East High School wrestling tournament but has no wrestling team. How embarassing. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[WUTNDITWAA]

This is sad as most of these football players would be able to compete for a NC at the D-III level where these schools were not so long ago.

That's not fair to the D-III folks. No need to let a school that receives D-I basketball tournament money rule the roost in D-III football. The best solution is to create a D1-AAa non-scholarship level that has a national championship tournament and champion. Only thing is that it makes too much sense for those educators at the NCAA to ever come up with it. :bang:

[bkrownd]

I think there's room for more than one competitive philosophy in I-AA. The variety makes things more interesting.

[WUTNDITWAA]

I think there's room for more than one competitive philosophy in I-AA. The variety makes things more interesting.

Then the non- or low-schollies shouldn't bitch about not getting into the tournament or a low seeding. I don't care if they're 11-0, the truth is that for the most part (some of the Patriot teams excluded) they play what essentially is a mid-tier Division III schedule.

[henfan]

I think there's room for more than one competitive philosophy in I-AA. The variety makes things more interesting.

I've got to disagree in a big way. Schools that will not schedule an overwhelming majority of the division don't appear to have a competitive philosophy at all, at least not as it relates to college football. The NCAA's created an environment that's allowed them to employ their selfish, myopic approach to D-I college athletics.

Clearly, Valpo is doing the very minimum to keep its football boosters placated while they devote a majority of their institutional resources to D-I Olympic sports, namely men's basketball. How does that reflect on their I-AA counterparts, many of whom struggle mightily with trying to maintain thecompetitive/financial balance across their entire ADs? Where's the fairness there?

Further, the lack of a unified competitive philosophy is exactly what has and what will continue to keep I-AA so fractured. You can't build brand identity when you don't know what or who you are. The lack of identity is part of what has caused schools to want to reclassify as I-A and has led to the general misunderstanding about what it means to be I-AA.

I understand some people only want to focus on football and that's all well and good. It's not realistic though. Yeah, it's nice to sing the praises of pie-in-the-sky 'variety', but not when it contributes to an unlevel playing field across other D-I sports and prevents the football sub-division from moving forward in a unified way.

[Bub]

Oh my, here we go again! I have several thoughts on this topic, some of which I've shared before. I'll try not to rehash.

I agree with the conclusion that the non schollies are generally not on the same level as the fully funded programs. However this is not an unusual senario.

The football programs at Michigan and Iowa, for example, are far superior to the programs at Ball State or Central Michigan, for example. Yet they're all I-A programs. No one is clamoring to kick these latter two, or any number of similar programs out of I-A. No on is proclaiming because Iowa beat Ball State 56-0 that Ball State should drop down to I-AA.

Yet, if a I-AA non schollie loses to a fully funded I-AA team the nay sayers come out of the woodwork and heaven forbid if they lose to a D-II or D-III team. I haven't heard any cries for Indiana State to be kicked out of the Gateway or I-AA for losing to an NAIA team.

I agree there are some non schollies that play a weak schedule, but not all. Drake, for example,has played both top 10 and top 25 fully funded I-AA teams this year. They hung in for a half and frankly the number, size and speed of those teams wore them down. I dare say there are some fully funded teams that wouldn't do any better. They'll play one D-III and one D-II team this year, the balance are I-AA non schollie teams, in addition to the two fully funded teams. It's a solid schedule.

If I were king for a day, my preference would be for Drake and the PFL to become more like the Ivy. Turn the PFL into a conference of like minded high end private academic schools that play football and not worry about whether we get into the I-AA playoffs. We have this partially with Drake, Valpraiso, Butler, Davidson, Dayton, and San Diego in the PFL. Throw some Ivy or PL schools into the schedule and it would be quite satisfactory.

As to dropping to D-III, first of course there is that NCAA rule issue. If the schools did drop to D-III, it would probably hurt the programs alot, because most of the players going there now would probably go elsewhere. I can only speak to one school, but a majority of the recruited players gave up schollies at I-AA, D-II or NAIA to go to Drake, in part because it's I-AA. Take away the I-AA, and my quess is a majority of those kids go somewhere else.

In sum, diversity is a good thing. We all can't be Delaware or Montana, nor do we strive to be. I don't think our existance as I-AA programs detracts from your existance or stature. Even if the best of the non schollies did get into the playoffs, the results, while probably predictable, wouldn't necessarily be any worse than some of the first round scores already are.

[bkrownd]

Further, the lack of a unified competitive philosophy is exactly what has and what will continue to keep I-AA so fractured. You can't build brand identity when you don't know what or who you are. The lack of identity is part of what has caused schools to want to reclassify as I-A and has led to the general misunderstanding about what it means to be I-AA.


I like variety. I think that's a valuable part of what the division IS all about. If I-AA just had the same narrow set of programs competing in the same way for the same apple every year it would be unspeakably boring, just like professional sports.

[purduecrum]

Oh my, here we go again! I have several thoughts on this topic, some of which I've shared before. I'll try not to rehash.

I agree with the conclusion that the non schollies are generally not on the same level as the fully funded programs. However this is not an unusual senario.

The football programs at Michigan and Iowa, for example, are far superior to the programs at Ball State or Central Michigan, for example. Yet they're all I-A programs. No one is clamoring to kick these latter two, or any number of similar programs out of I-A. No on is proclaiming because Iowa beat Ball State 56-0 that Ball State should drop down to I-AA.

Yet, if a I-AA non schollie loses to a fully funded I-AA team the nay sayers come out of the woodwork and heaven forbid if they lose to a D-II or D-III team. I haven't heard any cries for Indiana State to be kicked out of the Gateway or I-AA for losing to an NAIA team.

I agree there are some non schollies that play a weak schedule, but not all. Drake, for example,has played both top 10 and top 25 fully funded I-AA teams this year. They hung in for a half and frankly the number, size and speed of those teams wore them down. I dare say there are some fully funded teams that wouldn't do any better. They'll play one D-III and one D-II team this year, the balance are I-AA non schollie teams, in addition to the two fully funded teams. It's a solid schedule.

If I were king for a day, my preference would be for Drake and the PFL to become more like the Ivy. Turn the PFL into a conference of like minded high end private academic schools that play football and not worry about whether we get into the I-AA playoffs. We have this partially with Drake, Valpraiso, Butler, Davidson, Dayton, and San Diego in the PFL. Throw some Ivy or PL schools into the schedule and it would be quite satisfactory.

As to dropping to D-III, first of course there is that NCAA rule issue. If the schools did drop to D-III, it would probably hurt the programs alot, because most of the players going there now would probably go elsewhere. I can only speak to one school, but a majority of the recruited players gave up schollies at I-AA, D-II or NAIA to go to Drake, in part because it's I-AA. Take away the I-AA, and my quess is a majority of those kids go somewhere else.

In sum, diversity is a good thing. We all can't be Delaware or Montana, nor do we strive to be. I don't think our existance as I-AA programs detracts from your existance or stature. Even if the best of the non schollies did get into the playoffs, the results, while probably predictable, wouldn't necessarily be any worse than some of the first round scores already are.

Very well said... all of it. I applaud Valpo for scheduling only competitive games. I think all of the scheduled I-A vs. I-AA games we will see next year as the regular season expands to 12 games are done for no other reason than to pay outrageous coaching staff salaries.

As a Purdue season ticket holder, I am not looking forward to the extra $40 (or more) added to my costs because we scheduled Indiana State in 2006. Fans are forced to buy the tickets and they won't be able to give them away.

What about the bottom feeders in I-A? (Ball State) Will they be calling teams like Valpo just to get a non-conference home game? How low can we go?

[bkrownd]

V
As a Purdue season ticket holder, I am not looking forward to the extra $40 (or more) added to my costs because we scheduled Indiana State in 2006. Fans are forced to buy the tickets and they won't be able to give them away.


Uh, not much of a "fan" if you won't go to the games, eh? :rolleyes:

[Hansel]

Very well said... all of it. I applaud Valpo for scheduling only competitive games. I think all of the scheduled I-A vs. I-AA games we will see next year as the regular season expands to 12 games are done for no other reason than to pay outrageous coaching staff salaries.

As a Purdue season ticket holder, I am not looking forward to the extra $40 (or more) added to my costs because we scheduled Indiana State in 2006. Fans are forced to buy the tickets and they won't be able to give them away.

What about the bottom feeders in I-A? (Ball State) Will they be calling teams like Valpo just to get a non-conference home game? How low can we go?
NDSU is playing at Ball St in 06

[polsongrizz]

looks like a pair of Dakota beatdowns was more than they could take ;)
Not really wins to hang your hat on. :eek: