Congrats To Dayton II

[Ruler 79]

Was traveling and was unable to get to a computer. Anyways Congratulations Dayton on an outstanding performance and being the better team on this Saturday afternoon. I still think your schedule is weak and you should not be playing Div II or NAIA but I have always said you guys have a good program and it showed. You guys were the first team that really exposed our weak pass defense and thats was the difference. Your QB is far better then I imagined and I definatly consider him the best QB UA has faced and that includes Montana and Hofstra..

What a time for our OC to change philosophy. He tried to make UA a passing team on the big stage which was a tactical error. When we ran the ball (which didn't seem like a lot in the second half) it worked. When we passed it failed except for one td pass. Just being Monday morning QB oh well.

CONGRATS DAYTON FANS

[danefan]

I second that. Congrats! You guys gave us a nice butt-whooping to end an otherwise decent season!

I really don't understand the scheduling philosophy with the PFL teams. Had Dayton played two more FCS squads this year (PL or Ivy at the minimum), you probably would have won and probably would have gotten an at-large. Anywho, Congrats on another good season for a very successul program!

[Foosball]

Congrats Dayton. For those saying that this game shouldn't be played - if we had the choice of PFL playoff auto bid or GC - of course we'd all take the auto-bid. Until that happens, I think its a great way for 2 conferences to send their best - at the end of the season when excuses aren't valid - and see how the measure up. Mark two straight convincing wins for the non-scholly PFL!

[aceinthehole]

Congrats to Dayton! I think these past 2 seasons have shown that the PFL champ was the better team. :( The NEC still has a lot of work to do!

Congrats to both teams for winning their conference. Maybe next years will get 2 new teams like CCSU and Drake to square off in the GIC. The more teams that can have good seasons like this, the better!

I think there is a still a question about the overall depth of both the NEC and PFL. Clearly teams like Dayton, USD, Albany, Monmouth, CCSU, and Drake can compete at high levels of FCS with only "limited" aid packages. However, we are still big underdogs to the power conferences.

However, the scheduling strength of the PFL is still very suspect. I want to see teams like USD and Dayton, play more AQ-conference teams in non-conference action. No more than 1 sub-D-I team per year! A few wins will do wonders for your reputation.

[hebmskebm]

The pioneer leagues future rests squarely in their own hands. if they follow the NEC's lead and, as a conference, get rid of those cancerous d2, d3, and naia games, good things will follow.

[GOTOREROS]

The pioneer leagues future rests squarely in their own hands. if they follow the NEC's lead and, as a conference, get rid of those cancerous d2, d3, and naia games, good things will follow.


McNeese played Azusa Pacific who is NAIA - why do they play such a team? Just wondering.....

[danefan]

McNeese played Azusa Pacific who is NAIA - why do they play such a team? Just wondering.....

The difference is that McNeese can offset such a game with the rest of its schedule. PFL and NEC teams cannot. PFL and NEC teams need to have their OOC schedule be the strongest part of their schedule. Stronger conferences can have their conference schedule the strongest part of their schedule.

[USDFAN_55]

McNeese played Azusa Pacific who is NAIA - why do they play such a team? Just wondering.....

Or how about Montana State playing Dixie Statexnodx

[Grizalltheway]

Or how about Montana State playing Dixie Statexnodx

See danefan's post. xrulesx

[touchdown]

My congrats to Dayton,:) no doubt the two best teams in mid-major were dayton and USD ;) both from the PFL. As far as scheduling USD had two FCS teams Northern Colorado (and before you say anything they played Quarter finalist Eastern Washington close to a 17-7 game but lost to USD 49-13) and UC Davis!
Looks Like USD schedule for 2008 will included home games vs. Montana State, UC Davis and Naia Natl Ranked Azusa Pacific, Nobody in the PFL or NEC or FCS will Be able to question this schedule! Good Luck and Happy Holidays to All! Lets hear it for a great 2008!

[hebmskebm]

somone once said the PFL played like a combined 18 sub D1 games this year; that's what's holding them back. look at the NEC; they only played a combined 4 below their level this year (most of which as last minute replacemets for st. peters). yet the pioneer league won the gridiron classic two years running. you guys have the talent to compete, now quit playing patsies and prove it to the rest of the country!

[USDFAN_55]

My congrats to Dayton,:) no doubt the two best teams in mid-major were dayton and USD ;) both from the PFL. As far as scheduling USD had two FCS teams Northern Colorado (and before you say anything they played Quarter finalist Eastern Washington close to a 17-7 game but lost to USD 49-13) and UC Davis!
Looks Like USD schedule for 2008 will included home games vs. Montana State, UC Davis and Naia Natl Ranked Azusa Pacific, Nobody in the PFL or NEC or FCS will Be able to question this schedule! Good Luck and Happy Holidays to All! Lets hear it for a great 2008!

A home game with Montana State???? Where did you hear that from?

[DetroitFlyer]

Dayton should have been in the playoffs. We do not have to change our schedule one iota. We were a playoff caliber team in 2007 period. Most of you did not think we would defeat Albany, let alone roll all over them. Those of you that talk schedule have no freakin idea of what your talking about. All I see here is FEAR that your scholarship team would get its butt kicked in the playoffs by Dayton, or whatever team wins the PFL in a given season. The one thing Dayton's dominating victory points out is that current FCS playoff format is a JOKE!!!!

[BobbyMo]

I thought Albany would win after seeing both teams play RMU. Well done Dayton. Congrats to the Flyers and the PFL.

[Boogs]

Despite that NAIA and D2 opponents the PFL still won. Apparently playing up does NOT make you stronger. That only wears down a team that has no business playing scholarship competition in the first place.

What's the point of playing of FCS competition when you have no scholarships?

Why run a deficit when there's local suitable competition nearby?

I'm glad you guys don't make economic decisions in this country. You guys would make a lousy president. xcoffeex

By the way, where the heck were Albany's cheerleaders at the game? Does Albany even have a marching band?

This is why NEC football should not even be considered for a FCS playoff bid -- no school support. Albany is not THAT far away from Dayton. You guys are like the Mid-American Conference complaining about not getting a non tie-in bowl at the FBS level. Your student/fan support to travel stinks.

[Dane96]

If you read the threads that you posted in, you would know that Albany was playing in front of 13,500 rabid fans in our CROSSTOWN SHOWDOWN versus Siena in hoop.

Our band, dance team, and cheerleader's were there.

It is the biggest event in the REGION.

[danefan]

Despite that NAIA and D2 opponents the PFL still won. Apparently playing up does NOT make you stronger. That only wears down a team that has no business playing scholarship competition in the first place.

What's the point of playing of FCS competition when you have no scholarships?

Why run a deficit when there's local suitable competition nearby?

I'm glad you guys don't make economic decisions in this country. You guys would make a lousy president. xcoffeex

By the way, where the heck were Albany's cheerleaders at the game? Does Albany even have a marching band?

This is why NEC football should not even be considered for a FCS playoff bid -- no school support. Albany is not THAT far away from Dayton. You guys are like the Mid-American Conference complaining about not getting a non tie-in bowl at the FBS level. Your student/fan support to travel stinks.

Umm...it was a home postseason game for you and the attendance was 2703. School support? Enough said.

Thanks. And yes we have cheerleaders and a band but they were already scheduled to be at a basketball game. Can't have everything now can we?

And our OOC games do not run us a deficit genius. They are usually money games or local competition. Why the heck would we want to play local DIII schools like Union and RPI (who we'd beat by 50) when we can play local FCS schools like Hofstra and Fordham? You make no sense at all.

[Ruler 79]

If you want a bid to the dance you will have to play up games and win them. End of story. I agree, I think Dayton, UA and San Diego would have given Delaware a better game then Delaware State did. No question these teams could of competed that is not the issue.

Unfortunatly the committee will NEVER EVER bring in a team THAT DOES NOT PLAY ALL D 1 games!!!!! We can all agree that several non scholarship or 30 scholarship teams can compete but it will be falling on deaf ears!

If Dayton had played Youngstown State and Montana or whoever they probably get selected with a 9-2 record. Its your own fault.

[DUPFLFan]

Unfortunatly the committee will NEVER EVER bring in a team THAT DOES NOT PLAY ALL D 1 games!!!!! We can all agree that several non scholarship or 30 scholarship teams can compete but it will be falling on deaf ears!


That's crap. Other teams in other conferences, some listed in this thread play non-d1 and have gotten in.

Bottom line is no non-scholarship team will ever be allowed in the playoffs because no one wants to take a chance that a school that does not give scholarships would beat one that does.

Witness the OVC proposal (minimum $ for playoff participation). They were a weaker conference than the PFL (according to the Sagrin (sp?) ratings and got two teams in.

Don't sell that crap here. No one is buying...xnonox

[footballman65]

If you read the threads that you posted in, you would know that Albany was playing in front of 13,500 rabid fans in our CROSSTOWN SHOWDOWN versus Siena in hoop.

Our band, dance team, and cheerleader's were there.

It is the biggest event in the REGION.

Actually they did send a small group of UA cheerleaders out to Dayton.

[danefan]

That's crap. Other teams in other conferences, some listed in this thread play non-d1 and have gotten in.

Bottom line is no non-scholarship team will ever be allowed in the playoffs because no one wants to take a chance that a school that does not give scholarships would beat one that does.

Witness the OVC proposal (minimum $ for playoff participation). They were a weaker conference than the PFL (according to the Sagrin (sp?) ratings and got two teams in.

Don't sell that crap here. No one is buying...xnonox

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Alumn72 was referring only to the committee allowing non/limited-scholly teams in the playoffs with sub-DI games.

[Dane96]

Actually they did send a small group of UA cheerleaders out to Dayton.

GOOD JOB ALBANY.

With four major events that day...good to see some representation.

Now maybe Boogs will claim they were over/underweight for a cheerleading squad of FCS caliber....and the travelling party was under the normal number allowed.xcoffeex

[DetroitFlyer]

I saw Albany's cheerleaders at the game. I was impressed that they brought them to Dayton. I also saw the Albany fans tailgating under a purple and yellow tent if I remember correctly. The Albany contigent was small, but they were vocal. When Albany made a play, you could certainly hear them cheering. All things considered, I thought Albany traveled OK.

Before the game, I believe that Albany fans thought that Montana was the toughest team they played. I made a comment that said, let's talk after the game. I am curious to hear Albany's take on how the Flyers stack up versus Montana, Hofstra and Colgate. Frankly, I think UD could defeat anyone of these teams on any given Saturday. The post game comments I read from the Albany side indicated that Kevin Hoyng was much better than Albany expected. I did not see it anywhere, but I have to believe that UD's defense impressed as well.

The fact that Kevin Hoyng was not even hinted at for the Payton and Mike Kelly is not up for the Robinson are just more indications that most folks are clueless,( including most on AGS), as to how good the 2007 Flyers werè, and how deserving of a playoff bid the Flyers were. I hope that USD's success last year and Dayton's success this year wakes at least a few of you up. I'm not holding my breath...

[danefan]

I didn't get to see the game, so its hard for me to compare teams. But I will say that Dayton fans' complaints about no one knowing about them should be directed at your AD and Coach, not at people here or the committee. If your AD and Coach wanted people to know how good you were, he would have scheduled and beat someone who would have given you recognition. Its not rocket science.

I will say this...I think Dayton and Albany both would have been more competitive in the playoffs then other teams in the playoffs. But so would Georgia Southern, The Citadel, etc....xcoffeex

[Ruler 79]

Detroit Flyer I watched the whole game via the net and I will give you my thoughts.

The thing that stood out about Dayton and caught everyone off gaurd was the qb, no one thought he would be as elusive or as accurate a passer as he was. I do think he was the best qb UA faced in a long time. (Defense later on) The second thing that Dayton did was prepare well for UA's weak Secondary and I credit Kelly for that(BTW I didn't realize he and Fordie were such good friends....good for them). They were the only team to really expose our soft pass defense. If Dayton had wanted to tough it out on the ground or didn't have the qb that they do then I don't think you guys would of won, that would be playing into our strength. Your staff did the right thing by using the pass and gadget plays, that is how you defeat physically larger teams. IMHO if UA had continued to run like they did in the first half I do think Dayton would wear down (that is not smack I believe that) and the game could of been more in reach for UA in the 4th.

One of the dumbest things I have seen in many years was the onside kick with 10 minutes left and the score I think was 28-21 at that point. I also think the helmet to helmet penalty was BS and you know it. Players play tough end of story. That kept another TD drive alive.The onsides kick gave Hoyng a short field to work with which is suicide and made it 35-21...now UA needs to pass for time sake....dumb dumb dumb. The next thing that cost UA was they stopped blitzing in the second half and as a result did not sack him once after getting to him 3-4 times. I would of sent them on every down and if they beat us long then so be it. Again no excuses Dayton BEAT Albany soundly by capitalizing on mistakes and stupidity when they needed to and thats what great teams do.

As far as Dayton's D was concerned they were undersized as advertised and quite frankly the biggest mistake for UA was they underestimated them. They were VERY fast and got to the ball quickly and at the end of the day good tacklers. I think if UA had continued to run the ball instead of trying to outhink Dayton by passing the game would of had a different complexion. I am not saying UA would of won but it would of been a closer game. The TOP was ridiculous because in the second half UA had several 3 and outs because they tried to throw on first down and the ball was incomplete most of the time and then would be faced with 2 and 3rd and long...punt. So the TOP was lopsided. UD would complete several passes in a drive and score GAME OVER. I totally blame this loss on coaches overthinking the process and the players taking UD lightly. NO DOUBT DAYTON WAS THE BETTER TEAM THAT DAY....NO EXCUSES YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST AT THIS LEVEL!

As far as what I think UD is in comparison to Montana and Hofstra: Both Hofstra and Montana were as fast as Dayton and they were substantially bigger. Hofstra's best lb is 246 lbs and stand 6'3 and can fly he is a legit NFL prospect. Their outside lb's were all 235 and over. Montana's DE will be a pro and their D was GIGANTIC. Neither team had a qb like Dayton. Hoyng could easily play at a bigger school.So the difference between Dayton's D and Montana's and Hofstra is several fold, both were much bigger and faster with players 2-3 deep at every position which it what seperates full scholarship from non scholly or limited scholly.

In summary this game should of been closer but UA laid an egg. No excuses UD is the National Champion at this level but they are not in the same league as Delaware or Montana just as UA is in over their head when they play these teams...the difference is when we played these teams we stuck to what we do best and did not underestimate our opponent. For the record Fordham and Colgate as well as the rest of the PL is closer to UA and Dayton then they are to Montana and Delaware.

Could Dayton stand up to these teams? Absolutley no doubt in my mind...I have always thought that! If you guys had played YOUNGSTOWN etc we would have played San Diego as you guys would of been in the big show instead of the NIT of football. If we had not lost by 2 to Colgate on opening day we could of had a chance.

BTW Kelly stated UA was the most physical team they had seen all year. What are your thoughts of UA and how do you think UA would of stacked up against Pioneer teams if they were in the PFL? I think you know UA stunk up the joint last weekend and are probably better then you witnessed but I am interested in getting your perspective as well.

[DetroitFlyer]

Albany was by far the best tackling team we played this year. Against other teams, our receivers picked up yards after the catch. Against Albany, our receivers got hammered as soon as they caught the ball. Trying to run east/west rather than north/south did not work at all. The same was true on any kicks we tried to return. Albany's running back was very good. He reminded me of a larger Scotty P from Drake. Not as quick, but much bigger and stronger. He will be a force to be sure. Albany's O-line was as reported, big and athletic. If Albany had any kind of a passing game, you would be unstoppable. Vinny is just not accurate or consistent. His one long pass was very nice, but the rest of his passes looked forced and uncomfortable. Dayton was more balanced on offense and that kept Albanys defense off balance.

[flyenhigh]

Umm...it was a home postseason game for you and the attendance was 2703. School support? Enough said.

Thanks. And yes we have cheerleaders and a band but they were already scheduled to be at a basketball game. Can't have everything now can we?

And our OOC games do not run us a deficit genius. They are usually money games or local competition. Why the heck would we want to play local DIII schools like Union and RPI (who we'd beat by 50) when we can play local FCS schools like Hofstra and Fordham? You make no sense at all.

I am not supporting anyones claims but I did want to note that UD students got in free to this game. The attendance was said to be around 5500. In my opinion still not good but better than 2700.

[danefan]

I am not supporting anyones claims but I did want to note that UD students got in free to this game. The attendance was said to be around 5500. In my opinion still not good but better than 2700.

The 2703 attendance number came from the box score.
http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2007-2008/gridiron.html

And I'm not trying to knock Dayton. I just like to show Boogs that he's factually incorrect. I think we probably would have only gotten close to 4500 at Albany, but who knows.

[flyenhigh]

The 2703 attendance number came from the box score.
http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2007-2008/gridiron.html

And I'm not trying to knock Dayton. I just like to show Boogs that he's factually incorrect. I think we probably would have only gotten close to 4500 at Albany, but who knows.

I understand what the box score says as I understand that you are not knocking Dayton but I wanted to make clear that the box score did not count the students because they did not pay to get in.

5500 was the estimate.

[DetroitFlyer]

I have never been able to figure out attendance reporting. I attended the Davidson at Dayton game this year. If I remember correctly, the "reported" attendance was a bit less than 2700. At that game, the home stands were not full, ( there were obvious gaps in the stands ). Now, for the Gridiron Classic, the home stands were completely full. I checked several times just to be sure.... Of course Albany brought some fans as well, a "typical" turnout for a visiting team from far away.... Based on my experience at Welcome Stadium, I would have guessed the attendance to be in the 4000 to 5000 range. I was surprised to hear 2700.... Maybe the NCAA requires that only paid attendance is reported for the Gridiron Classic, while in the regular season, all bodies are counted? Attendance reporting in FCS seems to be about as accurate as the numbers reported for football expenses....

One more thing I wanted to mention that has been completely lost in Kevin Hoyng's masterful performance. Dayton actually out-rushed Albany in the Gridiron Classic. We do not have a "feature" back, so our improved rushing game gets zero press. For those of us that followed the Flyers closely this year, it was obvious that the rushing game improved as the season went on. Before the game, many thought that since Albany defeated Robert Morris by a wider margin than Dayton did, Albany would defeat Dayton. Well, Robert Morris was the first game that Dayton used the spread offense. The entire offense was still learning. As the season went on, the offense got better and better, including the running game. For those of you that are "numbers" folks, I looked it up. The net rushing totals were 149 yards for Dayton and 127 yards for Albany.